Nerf Arbalest!

[Spawny]

I'd love for crossbows to be a lot faster at reloading but dealing less damage.

We don't need one hitting slow to reload sniper rifles.

Might aswell go archery then.

[Magikarp]

Might aswell go archery then.

Why? Holding your shot is what crossbowery is all about. It shouldn't beabout onehitting people.

Crossbows should be the ranged class which reloads slower than other ranged classes, but can shoot from long range and crack armour better, while being able to hold their shot.

[Mtemtko]

With 57 b armor and 18/18 2IF spec (cav 6 riding 6 ath) I get onehit by an arbalest 8 out of 10 times. An experienced xbowman with good timing combined with pinpoint accuracy.. yeah shitstorm.  Either nerf overall dmg or change to pierce damage to cut (yeah i ate shit as an archer for 7 months , I hope xbowmen will too)
But honestly, the only way xbows will ever get noticeably nerfed (not upkeep, screw that crap) is if fasader doesnt do item balancing anymore.

[MadJackMcMad]

With 57 b armor and 18/18 2IF spec (cav 6 riding 6 ath) I get onehit by an arbalest 8 out of 10 times. An experienced xbowman with good timing combined with pinpoint accuracy.. yeah shitstorm.  Either nerf overall dmg or change to pierce damage to cut (yeah i ate shit as an archer for 7 months , I hope xbowmen will too)
But honestly, the only way xbows will ever get noticeably nerfed (not upkeep, screw that crap) is if fasader doesnt do item balancing anymore.

Fasader is doing an excellent job.  To balance a class you go down one of two routes.  Either by their contribution to a team, or their performance in 1v1 situations.

Method one, contribution (Currently in Practice).  Statistics show that on average, crossbowmen account for a paltry 5% of a team's kills.  Their contribution is primarily wounding, counter archer fire, and dismounting cavalry.  If you are killed, it may seem unfair, but you are in a 5% minority.  The remaining 95% of you team are still entirely capable of winning the battle, which is the teams goal.  A high k:d is not essential in victory.

Method two, 1v1.  If you were to adopt this method, then Arbalesters would be buffed.  For Arbalesters to be Arbalesters, they must have team mates to stall the enemy, allowing them time to reload and shoot continuously.  In flat, equal footing, equal skill, 1v1 situations, they perform poorly.  The Arbalester has one shot, if he misses; He will die to superior melee proficiency and equipment,  he will die to an archer as he is unable to reload, he will die to cavalry as he is unable to reload and possesses melee weapons of limited reach.  Furthermore, the Arbalest is not the one shot wonder people claim it to be.  Frequent tests have proven this.

With 57 b armor and 18/18 2IF spec (cav 6 riding 6 ath) I get onehit by an arbalest 8 out of 10 times.

I find this claim to be laugh out loud implausible.  My latests test, 91p vs 53ba (15str/0if), in the chest, killed 1 time out of 10 at a range of 15m.  So either you are Calamity James in disguise, or you are making shit up.

To be honest, this all comes down to pride.  As it did historically.  Melee players, particularly those who spec in 2hand and shun shields for the sake of 'honour', possess an inflated egotism characterised by a desire to be, or a belief that they should be, invincible - one man armies.  Getting shot by some lecherous cretin from 30m away is a slap in the face, and naturally,  they bristle when their elite melee skills count for nothing.

Were I stressed to consider any sort of nerf.  It would be to the damage bonus heirlooming bolts.  I would remove the damage and replace it with a larger stack, +1, +1, +2.  So masterwork steel bolts would contain 16 yet retain 6 damage instead of 11.

[Mtemtko]

I find this claim to be laugh out loud implausible.  My latests test, 91p vs 53ba (15str/0if), in the chest, killed 1 time out of 10 at a range of 15m.  So either you are Calamity James in disguise, or you are making shit up.

While playing with 18/18 0IF 53b armor (L30) on a siege server i got onehit 7 times and survived one bolt at close-medium range ( with 3-5%ish left) from a player called hygat or something like that, I dont remember the exact name, I dont know what he was using(arbalest obviously, dont know if MW) either but try explaining that.
And with 18/18 2IF 57b armor on champion arabian pony In most of the cases i get onehit, the extra damage from speed bonus is really massive I suppose.

@ 5% kills.
Yeah true xbomwen rarely top the scoreboards, but they have the firepower to kill enemy teams best player in one/two shots making a MASSIVE impact on the battle.

[Spawny]

While playing with as 18/18 0IF 53b armor (L30) on a siege server i got onehit 7 times and survived one bolt at close-medium range ( with 3-5%ish left) from a player called hygat or something like that, I dont remember the exact name, I dont know what he was using(arbalest obviously, dont know if MW) either but try explaining that.

You were raging about that 2 nights ago on the siege server. Just after that, it took me 2 bolts to kill you while you were hacking away at a door. That was with MW arbalest and MW steel bolts.
Maybe you were running towards the guy. Vastly increases the speedbonus and even 50% bonus is lethal to just about anyone.

And with 18/18 2IF 57b armor on champion arabian pony In most of the cases i get onehit, the extra damage from speed bonus is really massive I suppose.

Yup, speedbonus works both ways. If you're comming at me full speed with your arabian, I could probably 1 hit kill you with a light crossbow. Hell, I do that all the time when I get charged by lancers. I shoot them just before they get in range to lance me and it kills even the ones in transitional in 1 hit. I guess +100% or so bonus damage does that.

@ 5% kills.
Yeah true xbomwen rarely top the scoreboards, but they have the firepower to kill enemy teams best player in one/two shots making a MASSIVE impact on the battle.

I can only consistently stick in the top 3 or top of the scoreboards on the siege servers. On battle servers it's much harder, but I do better as the number of players decreases. Depends on my melee skills mostly.

[Ylca]

A larger stack instead of damage would be a huge nerf. How many times do you run completely out of arrows in one life with 13 to shoot? Very rarely unless your team is already just completely stomping. Between load time and the fact that most xbows are hybrids and engage in melee, more bolts just means extra bolts for the enemy to pick up after you die. The reason xbows get a damage bonus per heirloom and it isn't unfair is that xbows are the only weapon without a skill to make the cause more damage. A melee player can pull the most out of his sword by increasing PS, an archer by PD (arguably) but an xbowman? He has to wait the hours of grinding to get his bonus.

With the upkeep change xbows aren't the addon weapon they used to be as at 1 wpf they break every round causing players to spiral out of gold incredibly quickly.

The only problem with xbows is that they kill people at range, and people who refuse to carry shields but want all the benefits of a weapon that can kill in 1.5 hits can't stand that fact. Honestly, 2hers are the worst thing that has ever happened to this beta, most of their input is the reason so many ranged classes are unbalanced to the point of being unfun.

[EponiCo]

While playing with 18/18 0IF 53b armor (L30) on a siege server i got onehit 7 times and survived one bolt at close-medium range ( with 3-5%ish left) from a player called hygat or something like that, I dont remember the exact name, I dont know what he was using(arbalest obviously, dont know if MW) either but try explaining that.

What's your foot armor?

[Paul]

ITT: people who don't know how the speed bonus works.

[Cyclopsided]

ITT: people who don't know how the speed bonus works.

feels good man

[El_Infante]

Arbalest is fine as it is now. I don't understand the hate against ranged. If you don't like to be killed by archer/xbowers/throwers just buy a shield. If you want to play a 2hander or pole 21/18 or similar builds without spending points on shield skill, you deserve to be killed by ranged often; that builds have their strongness and weakness. And it don't mean xbow is overpowered or underpowered, it's just a dangerous and extreme slower and very expensive weapon. 

I played some generations with MW arbalest and I didn't kill anyone with medium/high armor and high level with one shot unless I had speed bonus (only when that player is running straight to your bolt). Exception: headshot.

So you have three options:
- Learn to dance.
- Buy a shield.
- Accept it.

[Gorath]

just buy a shield.

Even this isn't much protection with the surge in ranged POPULATION (not power).  I think all ranged weapons are in a good spot, and none should be nerfed or buffed really.  They're annoying, they're deadly, and when you have more than one ranged player that knows how to work with other ranged players there is NO protection from them.  With full body shields we've had plenty of running nights where map after map the 8-15 fucking ranged players are all on one team and our team is getting hit from every angle with our shields doing nothing to save us because there's literally nowhere to go except hide with your back in a corner until your shield breaks.  It's fucking obnoxious.  That said, again I believe ranged in general is in a good place right now.

[ReLeNtLeSs]

Even this isn't much protection with the surge in ranged POPULATION (not power). I think all ranged weapons are in a good spot, and none should be nerfed or buffed really.  They're annoying, they're deadly, and when you have more than one ranged player that knows how to work with other ranged players there is NO protection from them.  With full body shields we've had plenty of running nights where map after map the 8-15 fucking ranged players are all on one team and our team is getting hit from every angle with our shields doing nothing to save us because there's literally nowhere to go except hide with your back in a corner until your shield breaks.  It's fucking obnoxious.  That said, again I believe ranged in general is in a good place right now.

My god this is literally the 4th or 5th Gorath post I've agreed with in the past 2 to 3 days. I... I don't even know anymore...

[Ylca]

Archers need a 25 to 50% projectile speed increase so they can actually be archers instead of close range support throwers or side-thought for strategus, but easy targets in any other mode.

[Spawny]

just buy a shield

Been testing that with close range shots on the duel server.

If you hit the right spot, the only shields you can't penetrate with an arbalest are the metal shields (plated, steel and bucklers).

The huscarl get's pierced most of the time and to my surprise it went straight through the heavy board every time I hit the right spot.

Especially usefull to take out guys with shields going up ladders.