New ranged change

[Turkhammer]

, but I wouldn't like to see it reverted to spamming body shots for 1 or 2 hit kills. People still die to body shots, I've seen plenty.

But you should die from 2 arrows to the body, unless you have armor.  That's why shields were invented.  All the balance nuts don't want to hear that though.

[Ujin]

Well, after playing this for a few days now it seems pretty obvious that the ladder removal was a good decision, the body/head damage change was not.

I am saying this as someone who has nothing to do with balancing at all and also as someone who never cared about getting shot/smashed/lanced whatever, also i play a high Str polearm build without a shield so i am pretty much exposed to any incoming ranged fire.

All ranged classes except for super fast spam bows are now almost useless.
Headshots are nothing you do like in a shooter where aiming is everything.
You need a good portion of luck and you get most tries at a decent range using a fast bow.

So instead of making stuff like the Longbow useful it got nerfed further to the point where it is basically useless as you don't have a long enough optimal accuracy window to actually be effective although it's the most expensive bow and supposed to be the best choice at least in some way.
Throwing lances... you get one ammo per slot and you need two even for light/medium armored people EXCEPT you do a headshot with those pin point accuracy lances at which point they will do enough damage to kill you twice.

Along with that, cav got an indirect buff as horses take 33% less body damage like players.
So now ranged has no roofs and need 1/3rd longer to take down everything except they get lucky and hit the head.

What needs to happen is a nerf for ranged spam and a buff for the accurate ranged players, making headshots count more and everything else less, this already was the case since native.
No need to change it from where it was to be even more significant.
Rather reduce the accuracy on fast bows and make long range shooting something for the longbow guys.
Same basically goes for X-Bows, Throwing never was that accurate but suffered most from the nerf as far as i can tell (respecced to polearms before the nerf hit).

Also we need anti cav spikes asap and a possible revert on the 33% less body damage on horses.

The other option would be a complete ranged revamp for this damage change but that seems out of question.

As i said, i don't really whine about getting ganked by ranged stuff and to be honest it never really happend to me before the patch, I think I died like 1 out of 10 times from ranged stuff.

Now i either die from a lucky headshot or kill the ranged dude even if he gets 10+ shots on me.
It's just sad =(

FREE RANGED!

Edit: Just fixed some typos and stuff.

i agree with most of the things you say ,but gotta add 2 cents from my perspective :

- my champion destrier still dies pretty quickly from ranged

- with 21str 2 IF ,+7 gloves and a nonloomed lamellar cuirass i got shot in the body by hornbows for 10-20% of my hp plenty of times.i still think the damage reduction was a good idea (especially if you want to give some love to the longbow), just not as drastic

-spikes  sound interesting and fun, but if you ever implement them,they should be either limited or expensive, otherwise what would cavalry be limited to,cav fights and picking up stranglers? That's too boring.

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

Have to disagree for cav.

I now flee archers because each time i try to approach them i get one shot even thought i ride a massive horse and i wear massive armor and pay massive upkeep.

I'd be very happy to revert to the older archer system

[Old_Sir_Agor]

so ujin you think that some archer shoud shoot you min 5 times before you die? i know you also have shield, many have, i think it is just stupid when archer shoud be some sort of superman, who allways headshoot with some machingun, but now ranged need to place ton missles in target to kill it, when this target can come close with some 1 shield skill shield , take some good 2h or pole and 1-2hit kill you,

and look devs nerf ranged so hard, but

1-tincan still run with superfastspeed
2-shielders has super forcefield, so (maybe it is some lags) they can block hits from sides and somehow hit in the back.
3-you said destrier die fast-before patch destrier need 3 my mw arb mw steel bolts shoots to die, mw destrier. But look many use now plated horses, so now it is impossible to kill this sort of cv for ranged,

ah this all dont matter , because we shoud aim only head now,i just forgot that every ranged on servers in super sniper ofc) or we have clouds of missles ofc)

[_Sebastian_]

Well, Wolves_Sebastian and his 100 pierce from a bow hiding on unreachable roofs, that's such a joke. However, I said the combined forces of being unreachable and having the damage of MW Arbalest and MW Steel Bolts with a bow. Just removing ladders would've been enough to remove that silly combo.

Tzz...
But spaming with a mw flamberge and 10PS is ok?

The damage formula for melee weapons without hold bonus and speed bonus is;

Code: [Select]

weapon_damage * (melee_wpf * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (power_strike * 0.08 + 1.0) + strength / 5.0So a mw flamberge with 159wpf, 10PS and 30str deals 102.01c to point blank(body) and no armor... remember this is without hold- and speedbonus.

And my build with 10PD only was playable since I reached lvl34
So try to reach over 80mil xp to get lvl34 with my build... and then think again if you want to whine about my build,
in which I spend a half year to make it playable

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Check his «effective wpf», do you really think that he can aim?

All what he receive with his +4PD is +6 damage, in comparison with 6PD 180 wpf archer.

This calculation works not correct. It is made for Power Strike and not for Power Draw.

The correct formula is;

Code: [Select]

(bow_damage + arrow_damage) * (archery_wpf * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (min(power_draw, difficulty + 4) * 0.14 + 1) + strength / 5.0So I deal 100.05p...with the new patch it is 67.03p.
With 6PD and 180wpf I would deal 77,79p...with the new patch it is 52,12p.
Notice that this is the max (body)damage to point blank, 0 armor and 0m range.

[Mustikki]

Also we need anti cav spikes

Iirc Ozin were doing something with the idea.

[Grumbs]

You keep talking about skill based archery.  With the size of the reticle and inaccuracy of the bows and xbows getting a head shot is luck based.

More accuracy + slower projectiles (so you have to judge the distance and aim higher/lead the target more) might be be a nice change. The important thing is its player skill rather than just spamming shots in the general area of targets while not putting yourself at risk.

But you should die from 2 arrows to the body, unless you have armor.  That's why shields were invented.  All the balance nuts don't want to hear that though.

Realism isn't clear cut though. If it were realistic shots could glance on curved plate, shots would penetrate and either kill or wound. They wouldn't necessarily penetrate all the way in through the armour and padding. The whole concept of hitpoints is unrealistic too and there is no wound system. Getting shot in the arm is the same as shot in the heart area. People could be filled with arrows and yet not a single one penetrate flesh, or one single arrow could penetrate all the way through and kill. It was very random and depended on a lot of variables. I doubt archers were used how they are in crpg too due to friendly fire. They would first use the archers until the melee fights began, and then stop. The fights would involve thousands and be very different to how they are used in the game.

Its very different to crpg which is only partly based on realism. So many unrealistic things including cav to shields to melee. The most important thing is keeping a semblance of reality while making the best medieval combat fps with good balance and player skill/team based gameplay

grumbs maybe devs make your weapon do also 33% less dmg, just because i want it, think it will be cool, and i think you will have some kills anyway, so why no?

If it resulted in a better game fine. They could nerf all melee with 33% less damage, it wouldn't matter to me

[Old_Sir_Agor]

oh grumbs just try it, placing headshots 1 by 1, and if i miss shot with arb? then comes super reloading, even meow said hs are more luck based, and look for many this hs buf was not needed, i have 100 pierce with arb, i definatly dont need hs buff, so for me it is just nerf, ah btw dont forget that melee has big running speed today, so they dodge easy many shots, and many people are shielders or have some weak shields with, so if you hit some 1- it is allready not easy, but what we got then- shot head it show skill, all other stuff does not matter.


and also this shit pissed me off, that on weapons i have 100pierce dmg, bit some 1h guy with steel pick make more dmg than me, or some 2h guy with 40 cut, ofc he also make more dmg, looks pretty stupid, for new in this mod im pretty sure it is.

[Grumbs]

But you think it would be fine for you to 1 shot someone with a body shot? I don't see how you could enjoy that gameplay.

[Old_Sir_Agor]

But you think it would be fine for you to 1 shot someone with a body shot? I don't see how you could enjoy that gameplay.

before patch i need min 2 shoots to kill some 1, peasants need 1 shot, high armored guys need 3 shoots, seems good and balanced for me,
but what you want? useless ranged, who sometime lucky hs you only?

[LastKaze]

But you think it would be fine for you to 1 shot someone with a body shot? I don't see how you could enjoy that gameplay.

It's fun sniping people, now that it got nerfed the only thing i can think of while shooting is "Damn I'm not going to kill that peasant"

[Blackbow]

i invite all my archers brothers to check this thread :http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,24247.0.html
about buged arrows passing through bodies
and put a comment if u have same feeling as me!!

f a g cher ftw !!!!

[_Sebastian_]

But you think it would be fine for you to 1 shot someone with a body shot? I don't see how you could enjoy that gameplay.

Yes, because it is also possible with melee weapons.
This is balance.. you know this word?

[Elmokki]

This calculation works not correct. It is made for Power Strike and not for Power Draw.

Thanks for spotting this. Afaik the wpf for damage is calculated after armor weight (and PD) affect it but the power strike values were used for all weapons, which made crossbows, throwing weapons and bows damage calculation borked. Also WPF was affecting crossbow value.

I'm gonna send Espu a new file in a few, but it'll take a while before it's gonna be updated.

EDIT: Fixed!

[Turkhammer]

Grumbs, it was already difficult to get a body hit at distance for most archers.  I think the idea of a medieval archer going for headshots at distance is silly.  I play a pole hander most of the time and never really got killed that much by archers.  I think this nerf happened because of a big bitchfest.  The squeaky wheel is always getting greased.