Well we could quit being assholes to each other. But that isn't any fun.any idea's that could help improve the mod for the new?
EDIT:
The main reason they leave is because they just get killed over and over without any sort of hope. And level 30 builds suck compared to 33+ we see all the fucking time. 30 isn't going to help.
first character, first gen should start at lvl20 or somoething
I only agree with the last option.
I always hated when games added restrictions in the beginning rather than just letting me do whatever the hell I wanted and learning that way, I don't believe forcing players to have this much gold or a level 30 char without freedom is a good idea.
I agree. I would even go as far as to start them at lvl 30. Make sure it's just one character per key.
Most clans have weapons available so Looms aren't that big of a deal. It's just the fact that they A)don't know how to build a decent character and B) they start at lvl 1 and completely suck. The grind to lvl 30 is nothing for an experienced player. But it's enough to make new people quit on the spot.
Give default builds with gear included.....
Agi 2H
-18-21 Build
-Gear including Bastard Sword, Light Kuyak, etc etc
Str 2h
-21-18
-Gear including Sword of War, Heavy Kuyak, etc etc
etc etc etc
It doesn't have to be complicated. And it doesn't need to be min max builds either. Just your basic simple builds which they can tailor on their next gen. The biggest problem facing new players is build design. They don't know to build at 30, 31, 32 etc. They typically make shielder, thrower, archer, 2h hybrids on gen 1. They have no idea how much WPF is needed. All that is available in the forums but we could make it a lot easier. The gear set needs to be affordable but decent. Nobody is crying over a bunch of Kuyaks. It's not that much money. And they can easily buy their own gear after a few days.
Not to mention the fact it's only 4 mil to lvl 31.... they can retire and loom their first item. That's a big one for new people.
Sorry for double posting, but I have to before I forget it:
There are two new players on the server (Eu1) at the moment, and both can not register in this forum because of bugged captchas. They say they typed in the captcha dozens of times, but it will always say it's wrong.
I don't even have any captchas in this forums, but it's not the first time I hear this from new players, in fact, I heard it several times before.
This surely is an issue devs/admins/mods? have to deal with.
W I P E !!!!
speed is unbalancedblame Tydeus...
Why not just remove levels 1-20 and have everyone start at level 20 but call it level 1.
With the amount of XP available now getting to level 20 can be done in a few hours anyway, it's just cutting out the shit part.
DTV isn't the place to actually get better - those bots are just... :D too many. I don't see how a new player would learn anything there - except for spamming.
Oi! That's where I have learned to play D:
U mean that's where you've learnt to spam, then later realized it's not working on eu1 and then started actually working on your build and style?we all have some bad habits :) but that's what makes us unique?
They will be not playing this mod because of it
Why not just make just make everything equal with no looms, levels, perqs or any of that? That way only experience and skill (with twiddling a mouse) will count.this kills the grind
Here's something I posted a while back. I think it's a better idea for peasants to experience the thrill of combat while trying to participate in a team environment, versus this shitty tick system where they just run around aimlessly.
An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system (http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/an-advocation-for-reinstatement-of-crpgs-proximity-xp-gold-gain-system/msg944220/#msg944220)
Naturally, I was met with "official" responses regarding an XP/Gold system that was under development that would replace our current system (and of course, it was coming out Soontm)
The main problem is the very very high general skill of our veteran population. We would kick their asses 100 times even with as low level chars.
They also somehow need to understand that levels and looms don't matter that much...
I'd say give them awards as they go, at lvl 10 loom smth, (not point, but ability to loom), lvl 20 second loom ability, lvl 30, 3rd.
That way they can feel progression and have achievable goals. By their first gen they can then have an unsellable +3, +1 loompoint to spend.
DTV isn't the place to actually get better - those bots are just... :D too many. I don't see how a new player would learn anything there - except for spamming.
Huge thing for me as newby was Phaz and his commands in public chat, I could felt like in real battlefield (no random deathmatch server) and that was awesome.Yeah, well, agreed, you might have a point ... we all miss our gone heroes. But we are also behaving like sad, old vet-farts, sobbing and crying about everything and everyone in forums and in game, while perhaps we should realize , that we are the ones supposed to fill exactly those gaps, left by the ones we mourn all day instead, for the ones we want to keep in the game.
Should be a poll option for "none"Even if I wouldn't vote for it, the poll has no meaning if there's no option " change nothing".
Learning curve should be challenging, it's what makes it rewarding and fun.
They will be stronger people because of it.
The main problem is the very very high general skill of our veteran population. We would kick their asses 100 times even with as low level chars.
They also somehow need to understand that levels and looms don't matter that much...
I'd say give them awards as they go, at lvl 10 loom smth, (not point, but ability to loom), lvl 20 second loom ability, lvl 30, 3rd.
That way they can feel progression and have achievable goals. By their first gen they can then have an unsellable +3, +1 loompoint to spend.
Level 31 STF.
new players want looms, not some fuckwit char thats not even rewarding them for their time played.they need love and care, we should protect them at all times
they need love and care, we should protect them at all times
PROTECT THE NOOBS!
We should gather all the oldies sometime and solely protect the weak, just imagine the feeling theyll get when all the oldies help them out! They will never leave c-rpg again!
:| Make all level 30+ builds with over 500 kills public?
Blocking is super freaking hard.
PROTECT THE NOOBS!
We should gather all the oldies sometime and solely protect the weak, just imagine the feeling theyll get when all the oldies help them out! They will never leave c-rpg again!
why 2h, couldnt there be and option to pick a class to start with with pre-applied gear?
Hello
Started like a week ago. Speaking from the perspective of someone who hasn't played this TYPE of game before (or, like native); Blocking is super freaking hard. Also everyone who plays crpg has played for like 1-3 years and are godlike compared to scrubs. That's one of the things that makes this game awesome. But I think even with MW eq on 31+ character a newcomer would get so rekt.
I think giving advertisement to tutorial material like the melee guide and tears' guide + some strategus guide would help new players alot. Realising why they die and that it's a complex and interesting action game augmented with RPG on top of Strategus will be a very different experience from what their eyes tell them on first sight. Which is basically alot of overpowered speed freak ninjas and fully plated maulers onehitting them and being invincible.
But first of all, before starting the vids, we must define, of what we want to speak.(click to show/hide)
And how the videos will be used.
I felt the same way before. This helped me:
- Always zoom out from third person when you first join a server by pressing "-". It gives you a better perspective.
- Play witn a very high mouse sensitivity. If you are not able to do a 360 between attacks/blocks it's too low.
These two things are just settings but helped me more than 2 years of practice.
- Play witn a very high mouse sensitivity. If you are not able to do a 360 between attacks/blocks it's too low.Not that much. No need super high sensitivity, or he will be lost in the fight.
Thanks, I actually figured these out recently myself and it has indeed helped tremendously. This, and the melee guides + just hanging around the duel server with some friends. After realizing the complexity if the fighting system the game grew a hundred times in my eyes. Something I wish all newcomers would experience.
Noob macro feinting that will make whole community cry and force you to post videos of your mouse movements
Stop killing peasants and new players in obvious samurai + european gear Herezy!
That's quite interesting. Anyone here with some video skills, who wanna make some tutorial vids? I can help with prof. Voiceovers and music / sound. If so, PM me.
I'd love to have some veterans explaining the game, in audio/videoform and some direct info (like a popup on c-rpg.net, that these vids are available).
Thank you, bleeding face, for sharing your opinion. Do you have other friends who started with you? If yes, try and collect some ideas and things, like what you want to know, what you think might make your game experience more enjoyable and pm me those.
As a hotfix: try to join a clan, ask the members on ts if they can help u training - you'd also gain access to much better gear, and if its a good clan, xp propably. (Clanmembers usually get switched to the same team). Also never underestimate the use of all the non-fighting skills! You can be of great help for your team just by picking a pitchfork and stopping horses - or warn your mates about incoming foes.
For me, as an almost 4 year-addict, teamwork is much more important than duelling skills. So you might wanna start there and build your final build and skillset around what you'll learn from it.
How about this?
Stop killing peasants and new players in obvious samurai + european gear Herezy!:cry:
Add the option "Lessen the Valour requirements from 2.8x to 2.2x for low gen accounts" to the poll.What about level 36 players that are gen 0? Besides, it's about making the experience noticably nicer for new players, nobody is gonna be aware of this. Most new players won't even ever get close to 2.2x the average before they ragequit.
This was Aldo's idea, which I find innovative due to the fact that it addresses the immediate rewards players experience.
What happened to player progression being so important for the experience? What happened to levelling being fun?
All this talk makes me wonder why we don't just remove levelling and looms and give everybody a level 35 character that he can freely respec.
People want to be instant level 36, but they want everybody else to be level 30 so they have a huge advantage. Giving everybody a level 35 character would make them whine even more because they will keep getting oneshot by Mauls, Awlpikes, Long Bows, Steel Picks and Flamberges.
What about level 36 players that are gen 0? Besides, it's about making the experience noticably nicer for new players, nobody is gonna be aware of this. Most new players won't even ever get close to 2.2x the average before they GTX.For anything like this we'd cap it at level 32(because retiring at level 32 makes more sense than retiring at level 31).
For anything like this we'd cap it at level 32(because retiring at level 32 makes more sense than retiring at level 31).
We were actually discussing the removal of high level benefits (33 and above) the other day. Would mean that there would be no stat gain above that, only visual stuff. Of course any such dramatic change would have to be discussed with the community first.
We were actually discussing the removal of high level benefits (33 and above) the other day. Would mean that there would be no stat gain above that, only visual stuff. Of course any such dramatic change would have to be discussed with the community first.
Removing high level benefits would only have the potential of disrupting a bunch of players who are already established. That's not really going to impact new players, only give us a chance of losing old players.
On topic: I don't see what the problem is with STF. STF level 30 alts to test builds and be competitive are already in the game and are what I recommended to all of my friends when I was able to convince them to at least try cRPG. Then if they enjoy the idea they won't feel as crummy starting a peasant, and then they can also switch to their level 30 from time to time to blow off steam (die slightly less often).
My next cRPG video I'm working on will be focused on beginners, so maybe they'll find it helpful when it's done.
I think we will see who the level crutchers are if they quit. It will definitely help newbies since the difference between high level vet and average player will be smaller. There will still be a big player skill gap, but why do you need large character bonuses on top of that? If people just want to grind that can still be there
I don't think it's a good idea to encourage an already small population to grow any smaller. It might help newbies face less competition, but it doesn't matter how appealing the servers are for newbies if no one else is playing.
I don't think it's a good idea to encourage an already small population to grow any smaller. It might help newbies face less competition, but it doesn't matter how appealing the servers are for newbies if no one else is playing.
If everyone 32+ loses a few levels noone really loses out - no one will have any advantage over you. You just have less advantage over people that don't level crutch. If anyone quits because of that I expect they will head to an MMO to outlevel peopleI am so close to level 35 and I have had to offer my soul to get there, this would be a huge loss for people like me because my montsh of progress would have been lost. I didn't just add 3 points of str/agi, my lvl 35 build is specifically made to add an extra 8 riding on top of my 8 athletics. Lowering my level will basically put me back on the point where I started.
On the other hand the game will be healthier - more people will retire and try different builds so they don't get bored. Gameplay will be better balanced. There will be a smaller range of character power etc
We were actually discussing the removal of high level benefits (33 and above) the other day. Would mean that there would be no stat gain above that, only visual stuff. Of course any such dramatic change would have to be discussed with the community first.
That's both good and bad idea.Indeed, it's one of the downsides. There are things that can be done to remedy this or at least work towards such, of course. The most obvious of which, would be making respecs free.
Good thing is that it would balance pure builds. Bad thing is that it would hurt hybrids.
Indeed, it's one of the downsides. There are things that can be done to remedy this or at least work towards such, of course. The most obvious of which, would be making respecs free.
Edit: Also, anyone thinking that level 33+ doesn't grant any real benefits, is either naive or ignorant (sorry, that's just the cold hard fact.) If you have a level 35 character for instance you can get 2 more PS than a level 30, that's 16% damage. But wait, that's not actually the end of the story. Normally when you compare something like 18/21 to 24/15, you have a trade off here, one gains ps and or IF, the other gains athletics and or WM. In this situation though, you're not losing anything, so you actually have to calculate the additional damage with the same amount of wpf that you had before, so that 16% damage actually goes a lot further than that, and might end up more like 20%. But then you also have to realize that that person with 2 more ps, also has access to higher athletics than what a level 30 would, so he can actually reach a higher speed bonus with that amount of PS than anyone else, further increasing his possible damage output.
And still, this isn't the end of the discussion for what the difference is between a new player and a veteran, because there's still heirlooms there. Weapons tend to gain around 6.5 - 10% damage (based only on the weapon stats). Armor gains from looms are anywhere from 300% to 12% increase armor value. Consider the fact that you can have that on both your gloves and your body armor for a stacking effect, then have a weapon loomed as well, and have the above advantages from levels, there's really no good argument that can be made to try and trivialize the differences.
Maxing out at 31, perhaps even removing any stat bonusses that 31 gives, seems to be the way to go. .31 is attainable indeed
(click to show/hide)
The devs already said you will get some different kind of rewards so you might find you still want to grind for high level. If not well try to enjoy the gameplay and forget levelsI don't care about any kind of rewards, I want my fucking hybrid I worked for since 2011. I think being able to have 8 athletics and 8 riding isn't too much asked considering I fucked up my first year at the uni because of this game?
High level characters are OP especially if you hybrid across different classes with master of all trade builds. Item balancers can't balance properly with STF's.
I don't care about any kind of rewards, I want my fucking hybrid I worked for since 2011. I think being able to have 8 athletics and 8 riding isn't too much asked considering I fucked up my first year at the uni because of this game?
Seriously, if you really wanna fuck up the game go on, but this is just madness. I love this game because of the grind, it's an exponential curve ffs. The people that have one single fucking powerstrike point more now have had to grind ages for it, I didn't even make my build stronger I just made my build so that I could play mutliple classes and enjoy myself on multiple builds.
Kinngrimm was lvl 37, I don't believe his epeen did improve very much after he played a full year or more to get from 35 to 37. Give new players a more equal base to start on, but don't take away their long term goal. I know games without long-term goals and I rarely play them, my character is finished anyway so why would I take the time to grind it to higher level?
EDIT: these 'different' kind of rewards would in my case probably make me more effective against new players than I am now, atm I'm just a combination of two lvl 31 builds which I can't use at the same time obviously. I either spawn in cav gear or in infantery gear. Plus, capping the stat gain would lead to more people respeccing, you can say goodbye to your lvl 35 players with only a loomed weapon or armour. They will have everything +3 now.
Another thought about removing level bonuses after 33... how about if we only remove attribute bonus, but you'd still get 1 skill point each level?
That would lower the min/max gap a bit, but would also leave much needed skill points for hybrids. Or is that too subtle move?
I disagree with this. IMHO high level chars are acceptable if they are hybrids. It's more game breaking when you use all those extra points to max out one skill and ability through the roof. Being hybrid means that your stats are more balanced and closer to that of level 30. It's just a 2-in-1 build, not one uber specialized build. Also hybrids are really fun to play... I wouldn't want to lose them.
Being strong in melee as well as ranged results in shit tonnes of ranged, kind of like it is now. If you want to play melee you should have to take a melee orientated character, not left click on guys from a distance and then do melee when you already softened them up. Players need reasons not to play a ranged character, especially with the way ranged is countered in the game (mostly by other ranged)
lvl 35. If I wanted to I could put points into PD instead of shields, and my build would be practically as effective as now in melee + i'd have a bow. Why defend against ranged when I could simply shoot them, along with any other class I see? My abilities in melee won't change, I'll take a 2 hander with plenty of WPF and i'm not suddenly going to forget how to play melee.
Or even better, forget putting points into PD. I'll convert more stats and take a xbow with a 1hander (which are very good by themselves)
Off topic but, do you know that most good archers who are level 35 can probably get the same score even at level 30?
Off topic but, do you know that most good archers who are level 35 can probably get the same score even at level 30?Do you know that archers gain more than any other class from leveling past 30?
Do you know that archers gain more than any other class from leveling past 30?
Do you know that archers gain more than any other class from leveling past 30?
And your point is?
On paper that might be true, but I would say which build profits the most purely depends on the player.I was mostly referring to horse archers, but ground archers would fall into second place anyway, so making the distinction wasn't really important. In the case of a Horse archer, you have lower damage, higher penalties and greater requirements(to be effective, not use an item) than any other class as well. I don't mean to say that they're "underpowered", just that when you think about the damage they do after armor, in some cases they simply can't do damage to plate unless they have the right bow or build, it's clear that there are significant barriers to be broken through by achieving higher levels. Move to a level 35 character and unless the HA is still only at 4 PD, he's now capable of damaging anyone with any bow at just about any distance or he can now double as a fully functional ground archer (now able to get athletics).
For some levelling an archer past 30 has the most advantages, but for somebody else the benefits of levelling eg a 1h past 30 has way more advantages.
And your point is?Kind of depends on what your point was, but basically that you've missed the entire point of this argument to begin with. While some archers may be able to top the scoreboard still, it cannot be argued that they would be able to do the same at equal efficiency, and certainly not every single round. Perhaps it's easier to imagine in terms of average score per round?
skilled players are the least of our worries.
Actually skilled player are the primary reason that new players will leave. If every new player that logged onto EU1 was faced with other players with low skill level just like them then BOOM problem solved, they start to actually get some kills and have some fun.Ban skilled players, they're a bunch of assholes anyway.
Think about it. Your average new player is facing a horde of skilled veterans that can block so well it makes it look they use auto block while the new player is lucky to block maybe two hits in a row. Many of these skilled players are lv 35 with fully loomed gear that know the game inside out. They have a skill advantage, a gear advantage, a knowledge advantage and what does the new player have?... about 1000 hours of playing ahead of them if they want to even begin to compete. And naturally this daunting challenge causes most people to leave, with only the extreme grinders with hours to kill being left which is maybe 1/100
Right know CRPG only caters to a very dedicated type of person who is willing to invest huge amount of hours into the game.
so Tydeus, Skilled players are our PRIMARY concern were the interest of attracting new players to CRPG is concerned.
it wouldn't help crpg to grow but it would help me could you please add to the poll a "level 31 STF", possibly before this tournament starts? really it would mean a huge change for us respeccer, and it wouldn't hurt anyone.
This is why I hate tldr's. I was talking about new players, meaning a new player that is skilled versus a mediocre/novice one, not a skilled veteran. Clearly a skilled vet with looms and levels will be harder to kill than an unskilled vet and thus poses more of a challenge, thereby increasing the height of the "hurdle" one has to overcome. I thought this had already been established. :oops:(click to show/hide)
Ban skilled players, they're a bunch of assholes anyway.
Actually skilled player are the primary reason that new players will leave. If every new player that logged onto EU1 was faced with other players with low skill level just like them then BOOM problem solved, they start to actually get some kills and have some fun.
Think about it. Your average new player is facing a horde of skilled veterans that can block so well it makes it look they use auto block while the new player is lucky to block maybe two hits in a row. Many of these skilled players are lv 35 with fully loomed gear that know the game inside out. They have a skill advantage, a gear advantage, a knowledge advantage and what does the new player have?... about 1000 hours of playing ahead of them if they want to even begin to compete. And naturally this daunting challenge causes most people to leave, with only the extreme grinders with hours to kill being left which is maybe 1/100
Right know CRPG only caters to a very dedicated type of person who is willing to invest huge amount of hours into the game.
so Tydeus, Skilled players are our PRIMARY concern were the interest of attracting new players to CRPG is concerned.
Oh and there are a lot of things that make the game simply less fun to play than it ought to be. Random projectiles flying around that insta kill, unlimited kiting while shooting, having your cake and eating it (shooting then doing melee, or riding around then being a strong melee player etc)
The state of the game was completely different 4 years ago to what it is now.So the playerbase is not growing because the game has a very deep and skill heavy combat system that is incredibly hard to master, and you want us to make the combat system more shallow so the game can grow? I am not sure you comprehend your own point here, because the implications are pretty dumb.
Very few new players are going to invest the years required to get good in 2014 into such an old game.
You can talk all you like about CRPG being an elite game for skilled players and all the grinding you
did to get good but I'm telling you, that's exactly the reason why its player base is not growing.
These are the facts. You can deal with them or you can continue to see no growth in CRPG.
Seperating the playerbase with servers is not the solution. Skill will always be a factor, and should be. That's part of the appeal. But grinding levels for OP abilities shouldn't.
People seem to be under the illusion that a level 36 is balanced just because you can grind to it. It is not, and was never intended as such (it was considered unattainable initially). There has never been a long term balance goal. The mod has just happened. Do we want to keep going down a slow spiral of decline, catering to fewer and fewer players, or do we want to pull it up and admit that not all previous game design decisions were good?
Anyway people, keep in mind that all of this is only a discussion, we have not made any decision either way, and any dramatic change will go by you guys first.
Give new players a peepshow how fighting can be when fully levelled and equipped for a timespan of about one month. Then set them back to grind from zero.Giving them such start will probably lead to boredom pretty fast if you ask me. What will they do when their sneak preview ends and they suddenly have nothing left? I don't think many people will stay, I don't even think people will join in to the servers every day to finally try out that new weapon if you give them all they want from the start.
Seperating the playerbase with servers is not the solution. Skill will always be a factor, and should be. That's part of the appeal. But grinding levels for OP abilities shouldn't.
People seem to be under the illusion that a level 36 is balanced just because you can grind to it. It is not, and was never intended as such (it was considered unattainable initially). There has never been a long term balance goal. The mod has just happened. Do we want to keep going down a slow spiral of decline, catering to fewer and fewer players, or do we want to pull it up and admit that not all previous game design decisions were good?
Anyway people, keep in mind that all of this is only a discussion, we have not made any decision either way, and any dramatic change will go by you guys first.