I think a lot of how xbows function is hardcoded, but if possible i'd just give them a difficulty like bows and use PD (maybe change the name of it to Ranged Acuity or something).
This doesn't change how it functions. It changes how accurate you are with a crossbow. It simply gives you crossbow wpf. Also changing a crossbow's STR requirement is easy.
I'm not saying you need SH to use a crossbow, but you will need it to be remotely accurate since it's the only way to get wpf in Crossbows.
I don't like the idea of something like a PD requirement, but a strength requirement I do like, with an optional skill requirement to be accurate. It makes sense to me because you need strength to pull the string back and then you will need a steady hand to keep your weapon stable and to actually hit someone.
You will still be able to pick up random crossbows this way but you won't really hit anything without luck or someone who's really close.
I think a lot of how xbows function is hardcoded, but if possible i'd just give them a difficulty like bows and use PD (maybe change the name of it to Ranged Acuity or something).
I like the way the mod called Mercenaries handles crossbows. They added a new skill which increases reloading time for crossbows. To use crossbows you have to have skillpoints in this new skill the same way bows need PD.
"Picking up a crossbow" is a negligent point. a), the game isn't balanced around finding random weapons on corpses
taking a crossbow without decent WPF investment is far less effective than you seem to think it is.
And the "accuracy vs damage potential" is ridiculous. Balance around "missile speed/reload speed vs potential damage," using inaccurate ranged weapons is no fun at all.
It's not purely balanced around random people picking up crossbows, it's about the guys who have 170 wpf in crossbows without any investment besides a normal agi build that can kite and s-key out of all your swings while still dealing shit loads of ranged damage. If they wanted to they could be a strength build with decent accuracy and do massive damage in melee and ranged. I don't think any other class is capable of that since they all have to invest in some form of skill to use their weapons.
Taking a throwing weapon with low wpf isn't effective, and taking a bow with low wpf isn't effective. So why should crossbows be different? Also they can still achieve good accuracy with the Steady Hands skill. They just won't be able to use an arbalest or heavy crossbow if they wanted to be a super accurate sniper. They'd have to use a normal crossbow with low strength requirement so they could be a sniper with their agi build.Crossbows are different because they have long reload times. Try using one with low WPF, you'll miss most shots and take forever to reload AND be limited to one slot for a melee weapon. That is penalty enough. Agility crossbowmen might get some nice sniper kills but it's not like they are overpowered in melee. Lower PS than most dedicated melee, probably low IF, slowed down by the crossbow/bolts, and likely lighter armour. At that point it becomes about player melee skill and not a class issue.
That's even more ridiculous! There's no down side to using the best crossbow since they still reload extremely fast, they can hide behind cover, and they get a full 360 degree look around of their surroundings while doing so. Right now the higher damaging crossbows have the highest accuracy, highest missile speed, but the "slowest" reload speed. Which doesn't matter to any crossbowman who's played for 10 minutes.There are absolute downsides. Reload times make a huge difference, and the heavier ones do not "reload extremely fast." You might get one or two shots off at an approaching force with the Arbalest, and do high damage for those two shots. With a Light Crossbow, you might get four or five shots, with appropriately less damage dealt per bolt. This is balance. What you said is basically what defines crossbows as a weapon.
With the slot change, odds are they have a one-slot weapon, so "s-key out of all your swings" doesn't really apply. Taking enough WPF to shoot accurately dents melee WPF significantly, hindering their ability do do "massive damage in melee". And a strength build crossbowman who also shoots with "decent accuracy" and has room left over for pure-build-equivalent melee skills? Please.
Crossbows are different because they have long reload times. Try using one with low WPF, you'll miss most shots and take forever to reload AND be limited to one slot for a melee weapon. That is penalty enough. Agility crossbowmen might get some nice sniper kills but it's not like they are overpowered in melee. Lower PS than most dedicated melee, probably low IF, slowed down by the crossbow/bolts, and likely lighter armour. At that point it becomes about player melee skill and not a class issue.
From what I gather you got sniped by some crossbowman, hunted him down next round, and he ripped you apart in melee too. Instead of making a "balance" thread, go invest a point in Shield or practice melee.
I beg to differ you need very little melee wpf at all to be effective. I love my strength build with 40 two handed wpf.
I played a 15/24 crossbowman and I know what i'm talking about when crossbowman fight in melee. 5 PS, 8 ATH, 50 one handed wpf, warhammer, and medium armor. It was like heaven I would run away if I didn't want to fight the guy who came after me and then I would s-key him and slap him with my warhammer and do the lame knockdown kick maneuver. Easy win, especially against str builds. Also I was super accurate with my arbalest.Yeah, I played one too, and winning duels isn't a big deal in melee in regards to class balance. This isn't balanced around duels. In a larger fight, you are relatively ineffective compared to an equivalent pure-melee build player. That is balance.
I haven't played this week at all so it's definitely not a rage topic.
I like the way the mod called Mercenaries handles crossbows. They added a new skill which increases reloading time for crossbows. To use crossbows you have to have skillpoints in this new skill the same way bows need PD.
I've seen you play, you get shit on by anyone who can block your first few swings. Having high powerstrike/low WPF and getting kills is a matter of getting the first hit in a lot of the time.
This is about crossbow-users. They won't have a high enough PS to make up for the lack of WPF.
Yeah, I played one too, and winning duels isn't a big deal in melee in regards to class balance. This isn't balanced around duels. In a larger fight, you are relatively ineffective compared to an equivalent pure-melee build player. That is balance.
Instead it is a random-thought-entered-my-head-how-could-this-possibly-not-work topic. It doesn't work.
This sounds interesting with another modifier for reload speed while keeping wpf mainly for accuracy. If a melee picks up a crossbow without this 'deft hands' skill, he'll be out of the battle for a while. If someone ever feels like implementing a skill requirement for xbow, this sounds like it will work.
Two equally skilled fighters meet up on the battlefield, what happens? Yes the one with the better equipment and stats most probably wins.
Crossbow + steel bolts = 3 slots ---> only one 1 slot is left. Crossbow and steel bolts also tend to weight a lot (not like arrows and a bow but it's still a lot). The player with the 2hand/polearm with practically better armor or faster movement will have an advantage over the crossbowman in melee fight.
Yes the crossbowman can still win, and personally speaking I mostly do. That's because, however I mostly face with players that are worse than me in melee (I think I'm above avarage in melee). So I somehow counter that effect. If I face with someone with an equal skill or worse someone better, then I am the one having a harder time mostly. In high level duels, those differences make up the whole difference! If you can't use your advantage against a hybrid, you're already a worst fighter than him!
Raising the STR requirement does not sound like an extremely effective idea. One can always do well with a less powerful crossbow if he can't use... say... arbalest, for example. Personally speaking, I use a crossbow with 21/21 build. I feel pretty effective, so unless you make even the lightest crossbow 30 STR requirement or something this won't really change all that much. 15 STR is a bit of a joke, but 18 STR won't really cut it off too. It will only make a few players angry when they can't use their favourite crossbows with their current build. It is only a matter of time before they get used to another crossbow.
Before someone criticizes me for being a lobbyist, I want to say... well ... whatever. Those people are idiots already.
It's not purely balanced around random people picking up crossbows, it's about the guys who have 170 wpf in crossbows without any investment besides a normal agi build that can kite and s-key out of all your swings while still dealing shit loads of ranged damage. If they wanted to they could be a strength build with decent accuracy and do massive damage in melee and ranged. I don't think any other class is capable of that since they all have to invest in some form of skill to use their weapons.
As if 170 isn't an investment, wm to use the arbalest is an investment, It may not be enough to statisfy your definition of "investment" but it is still an investment. Just increase the usefulness of WPF and decrease the usefulness of no wpf. If all you are worried about is people picking them up and being "effective" with 1 wpf. The damage is mediocre at best if you have any armor on at all. Athletics are needed as well so we can reload more than once or twice. I have yet to see a "Strength" xbow build be overly effective.
I can name maybe 4-5 notable Arb users NA side (That are dedicated builds). I have no idea what EU looks like they always seem to have an abundance of range period.
This is just my opinion- I think they went about the wpf change all wrong in the first place, instead of giving everyone more or the same amount of WPF they just needed to make WPF actually mean something so people feel the need to invest more wpf in the second proportions of their hybrid builds.
Arb users can't kite very effectively if one single enemy chases you... You will not ever be able to reload. Most of the time when this happens to me on siege I just run for the nearest teammate or for awhile if they dont let up I jump from a high place. I guess you could say I'm suicidal.
Something that could be reasoned to be realistic would be to tie Reloading speed to strength.
You can be accurate but will shoot extremely slowly. *Slower than now
OR
Pump up your char with strength, but sacrificing lots of accuracy for reloading speed.
OR
Just put higher STR requirements on xbows. You should be gorilla to use the heaviest crossbow around.
I suggest 24 str for arbalest.
Just guess what it is now.(click to show/hide)
Also desire.. who else is there that uses arb well besides you and phan? I don't think phan even uses the arb anymore either. I might be forgetting some people though but I can't think of them.
I honestly just said 4-5 because I can only think of 3 so I put 4-5 to give me some room to be off a bit. Sorry if I do forget someone.
Phantasmal - No longer uses arbalest because its just not a very viable weapon.
dBrooks - His main is still uses an Arbalest but he mostly plays on alts now.
Desire - Stubbornly refuses to give up ancient Arbalest.
I'm sure there are at least 2 others that play "frequently" and are notable.
Had you said 18 str for arb, maybe. But 24.. ok bro. 24 str to carry and load an arb but a great maul, the heaviest 2h, is 20.
No.
An extra skill or something to up the need for crossbow skill sink. Fine, if it can be implemented well. But the above suggestion? lol.
Hiding in a bush and doing 1-shot kills never required any skill anyway.
Oh god, I'm breaking out in sweats at the mention of dbrookz, I forgot about that headexploding aim bot!
Basically, xbowers will not take more STR than they need to use their weapon. My suggestion would of course kill the long range snipers (What a tragic loss..), but a shotgun-like STR xbower is still a class to be feared.
If you would like to snipe, you should just take a lighter xbow than the arbalest.
Hiding in a bush and doing 1-shot kills never required any skill anyway.
A lot of this just sounds like extra work that may not end up the way the topic creator intended. Wpf differences do make quite a difference, you're probably just noticeably more skilled than those melee that you defeat. Accuracy tops out around 160-185 wpf, so that 30wpf isn't enough. It also seems to negate the WM skill?
This sounds interesting with another modifier for reload speed while keeping wpf mainly for accuracy. If a melee picks up a crossbow without this 'deft hands' skill, he'll be out of the battle for a while. If someone ever feels like implementing a skill requirement for xbow, this sounds like it will work.
I honestly just said 4-5 because I can only think of 3 so I put 4-5 to give me some room to be off a bit. Sorry if I do forget someone.
Phantasmal - No longer uses arbalest because its just not a very viable weapon.
dBrooks - His main is still uses an Arbalest but he mostly plays on alts now.
Desire - Stubbornly refuses to give up ancient Arbalest.
I'm sure there are at least 2 others that play "frequently" and are notable.
yes WPF differences do make a noticeable difference in shooting of crossbows. But that doesn't explain why of all the weapons in the game, crossbows are the only one without a governing skill to them. Melee has power strike, archery has power draw, throwing has power throw. For balance sake, crossbows should also have a governing skill.
Your argument would basically work the same for removing PD from archery, or PT from throwing. It doesn't make sense from a balance standpoint.
I think the time for adding a skill requirement to crossbows has passed however, the time to do so would have been when people were getting free respecs.
Rohypnol also uses an arb and dominates with it (he said he only had 135 WPF also).
They are dedicated to it and this destroys pure arb builds to make it 24.
Its a quick fix that actually makes it worse.
yes WPF differences do make a noticeable difference in shooting of crossbows. But that doesn't explain why of all the weapons in the game, crossbows are the only one without a governing skill to them. Melee has power strike, archery has power draw, throwing has power throw. For balance sake, crossbows should also have a governing skill.
Your argument would basically work the same for removing PD from archery, or PT from throwing. It doesn't make sense from a balance standpoint.
I think the time for adding a skill requirement to crossbows has passed however, the time to do so would have been when people were getting free respecs.
I thought about throwing Rohypnol in there but the reason I didn't was because he doesn't actually kill very many people with the arbalest itself. He racks up kills with his melee proportion of his build which is normal. At least from what I have seen.
Taser I'd say 150 to 160 is decently accurate I have 185 so I can shoot further and reload faster. staying a safe distance away from the enemy means I need to be able to shoot accurately over a larger distance. The average person that uses an arb doesn't actually go for very many long shots.
Also side note I'd say 185 is either the cap on accuracy or very close to it.
Can you explain (in your opinion) why crossbow users shouldn't have to have a skill investment to be "as effective" with using a crossbow? Any other type of weapon also benefits from having WPF, so therefore has a WPF investment as well. Any other weapon type also has a Strength requirement to use them. Someone could certainly fight with 0 power strike (you can't do the same with bows or throwing unless you're using the lowest possible tiers, and even then you probably still need at least 1 PT or PD), but you aren't going to be effective at all.
I don't see why crossbows are justified in not having an overarching "skill" that governs their usage, or at minimum, how much more effective they are versus not having that skill. I think it would make sense to have a PD or PT type of skill associated with crossbows, you need "X" skill to use "Y" crossbow.
Although I think this is a moot point, because to be fair, if these changes were made, you'd have to give people a free respec (or at least people with WPF in crossbows), and I don't see that happening.
No shit. That's the point. The class is retarded. Way too easy to play for its power.
Still, i can easily hit and kill people at close to medium ranges with just 116 wpf in xbows on my lvl20 alt.
At lvl 34, which is not unreasonable for a specialist, they would have 7wm, and I guess around 160+ wpf and that's decent.
Besides, 8 PS is nothing to laugh at in Melee.
By wpf difference, I was talking about the melee difference of a pure build vs the xbow hybrid once the melee approaches. The wpf difference in melee makes it harder for the xbower than it initially seems is what I was trying to say. In the second part, I was questioning some of the more intricate parts of his suggestion that confused me.
It does make sense for xbows to require a skill requirement, but it needs to make sense and worth the work of implementing it. A skill based on reload time made more sense to me than removing crossbow wpf and working off some new formula. I think we are generally in agreement, so I think I may have misread somewhere?
Who is doing this?
Just trying to see if anyone can find a reason why crossbows shouldn't have a skill requirement governing their usage (or at least their effectiveness). I've never understood why this was never addressed.
My main beef is that crossbowman are saying that they do invest in their class with Weapon Master. Helloooooo, all classes have to do that I recently upgraded my strength build with 3 wm but I also had to give myself a lot of powerstrike so my build could be effective. It's every class but crossbowman who do not need to invest in anything other than WM.
Maybe to compensate if there is something like a PD requirement that decreases reload speed you could make crossbows more accurate for loss of wpf....maybe.
That's ranged in general really. They always need as much WM as possible in order to have the best accuracy they can get. Which is why archers, throwers, crossbowmen always max out WM and get lots of agi.
Hmmmmmmm a skill to reduce reload time? I dunno about that :lol:
True, but what do throwers and archers have to also do, invest in PD or PT.
San (or Apsod) suggested that one, I just used it as an example.
Can you explain (in your opinion) why crossbow users shouldn't have to have a skill investment to be "as effective" with using a crossbow? Any other type of weapon also benefits from having WPF, so therefore has a WPF investment as well. Any other weapon type also has a Strength requirement to use them. Someone could certainly fight with 0 power strike (you can't do the same with bows or throwing unless you're using the lowest possible tiers, and even then you probably still need at least 1 PT or PD), but you aren't going to be effective at all.
I don't see why crossbows are justified in not having an overarching "skill" that governs their usage, or at minimum, how much more effective they are versus not having that skill. I think it would make sense to have a PD or PT type of skill associated with crossbows, you need "X" skill to use "Y" crossbow.
Although I think this is a moot point, because to be fair, if these changes were made, you'd have to give people a free respec (or at least people with WPF in crossbows), and I don't see that happening.
No shit. That's the point. The class is retarded. Way too easy to play for its power.
Still, i can easily hit and kill people at close to medium ranges with just 116 wpf in xbows on my lvl20 alt.
At lvl 34, which is not unreasonable for a specialist, they would have 7wm, and I guess around 160+ wpf and that's decent.
Besides, 8 PS is nothing to laugh at in Melee.
Perhaps I was a bit rash. Point is, I think most of these mechanics are hardcoded, and are not going to happen.
Only very simple things can be done at this point and not be completely unlikely to be implemented.
(Simple things such as editing item requirements.)
The community have asked for xbow skills for nearly 4 years. (!)
So sorry to break it to you if you weren't aware. There is nothing wrong in the basic idea. It just won't happen.. But then again, 24 was perhaps a bit extreme since you would want 1h wpf too. 21, is still hybridizable xbow since it just requires wpf, besides many xbowers probably have 18+ strength already for melee purposes.
EDIT:
Arbalest is very common on EU. Dunno whats up on NA.. I guess you just like to melee more.
Perhaps I was a bit rash. Point is, I think most of these mechanics are hardcoded, and are not going to happen.
Only very simple things can be done at this point and not be completely unlikely to be implemented.
(Simple things such as editing item requirements.)
The community have asked for xbow skills for nearly 4 years. (!)
So sorry to break it to you if you weren't aware. There is nothing wrong in the basic idea. It just won't happen.. But then again, 24 was perhaps a bit extreme since you would want 1h wpf too. 21, is still hybridizable xbow since it just requires wpf, besides many xbowers probably have 18+ strength already for melee purposes.
EDIT:
Arbalest is very common on EU. Dunno whats up on NA.. I guess you just like to melee more.
FYI, the Arbalest is an extremely powerful weapon. Shoot any target of opportunity and 1 shot lots of people. It breaks the lameness scale. When you get 1shotted, there are no second chances. It's the weapon for people that Hide and Wait. It would still be with my nerf suggestion, just they would have to wait a bit closer to the battle, and they could no longer just run away too! :D
The real solution is to revert 0-slot weapons to 1-slot, limit ammo to 1 quiver per player and then double the amount of arrows in a quiver.[/b]
- maintains the status quo on xbow/no-shield hybrids/non-hybrids since they still have the drawback of lacking survivability
I'm one of these 0-slot 1h/shield/2-slot xbow hybrids you are talking about, and I'm actually surprised that you think my "class" is the primary problem with xbows. I can't even think of another player on NA 2 with this loadout (maybe Taser uses a 0-slot 1h now, haven't seen him on NA 2 in ages).
I only equip my Heavy Xbow during my first life on siege defense (so roughly 10% of the time overall), because the huge weight penalty of xbow+bolts would be too much of a hindrance while attacking or defending later in the round. I also drop my xbow+bolts before engaging in melee (10 kg!). If they instituted the change you proposed, when I felt like using my xbow I'd just bring the 0-slot buckler instead of my normal shield, or I just wouldn't bring a shield when using the crossbow. Bringing a Hand Axe or Hammer or whatever wouldn't even be a consideration.
It's not like shield+crossbow provides any real synergy (like throwing+shield or cavalry+shield do), other than the occasional projectile that hits the shield on my back. It's uncommon because shield+xbow+bolts weighs nearly as much as plate armor.
This. I don't see 1h/shield + xbow. Phew uses it sometimes but like he mentions its pretty rare and it really slows you down which takes away any ability to kite plus it sucks for melee as well since footwork is terrible with the added weight.
I've never seen many xbow+shield+1h hybrids in-game, so what makes the shield so great on an xbow hybrid?
A 1 hander with some WPF and 5 or 6 PS with some agi is all you need to do well in melee. One handers were way over buffed and you have these 0 slot ones now too (they were good before the 1 hand buff patch even). Then add that you can have as much armour as you want, add a shield if you want, add the xbow and you have a class that is too good in too many areas. If you want good ranged why should you have a decent shield and melee capability at the same time?
I don't drop the xbow to fight either as doing so delays me running away again if I do kill my enemy in melee or an ally comes to help. Yes there's a noticeable difference if i do drop the xbow or lower my armour level. But its not necessary to do this to stay ahead of the vast majority of melee players in terms of agility/movement/footwork.I just think of opponents that do not know how to utilize their own advantages/ you vastly outskilling them. Fighting with a crossbow+bolts on your back +shield + non-optimal melee build doesn't seem all that great to me. Skill requirements for xbows would be enough of a solution.
Shield is not a counter to ranged. Its a defensive ability.
I should have rephrased that. Every xbow+Shield+1h hybrids I have ever seen in-game did not portray to me any of the qualities of why their build is overall better than other xbow hybrids.
What I'm trying to get at is the shield is more limiting more often than not. You get a few shots off and now you're just a mediocre shielder once someone gets close... It just seems to me that the skill point allocation could be handled better. It also seems easier to shoot other ranged rather than chase them with a shield if you have a crossbow. The wpf difference between a melee+ranged hybrid and a pure melee is larger after the wpf patch and it would take a larger skill difference to come out on top.
I believe the class can be very strong , but I wouldn't classify it as OP or even the best hybrid build. Stats on 1h have been reduced to being extremely close to their old stats in performance. More stab animation tweaks are also in the pipeline (although the extra stuns/delays currently help).
@Tomas
I understand your sentiments, but I disagree that spending 3-5 points in shield and sacrificing a good chunk of your crossbow wpf is an optimal strategy for xbows.
When I read this:I just think of opponents that do not know how to utilize their own advantages/ you vastly outskilling them. Fighting with a crossbow+bolts on your back +shield + non-optimal melee build doesn't seem all that great to me. Skill requirements for xbows would be enough of a solution.
Skill requirements for xbows would be enough of a solution.
4) Shield hybrid. Pros - can melee/survive. Cons - none
Think he means its cheesy and he does better than he aught to
The historical role of crossbows was a means for rich guys that sucked at fighting to still have a means of killing people in battle. I'd say their role in cRPG matches up well with their historical usage.
How about Cons:
-Heaviest gear loadout of the crossbow options, limiting mobility
-Most skill investment of the crossbow options; those points in shield would otherwise be used for more agi/WM/ironflesh/etc
-Best weapon option is a 0-slot 1h, whereas a xbowman without a shield can use the longer and much more damaging Langes Messer in 2h Mode (38cut at Masterwork I believe)
Throwing+1h+shield has much more synergy than crossbow+shield (I know, I spent the previous year or so as a Huscarl), since you can actually use the shield while throwing AND while using the melee mode of your throwing weapons. You make it sound like crossbowmen can shoot/reload their crosswhile while their shield is raised.
Tomas, I'm confused by your agenda. You state that 1. Your own build is OP but that 2. you don't perform well. Contradictory.
Its not about being better - its about having no weaknesses. Without the shield a crossbow is at the mercy of the map for cover and if you get caught in the open by a horse archer even the best player is fundamentally screwed. This forces most crossbows to the edge of the fight, limiting the effectiveness. I meanwhile am happy to run into the open because I know that if I do get into trouble I can just put my shield up and make my way back to cover. I can also escape better players this way and simply s-key my way out of trouble whenever I come up against someone I know I can't kill.
Pretty much. A shielder/xbow hybrid that tries to do both at the same time is at a disadvantage vs a pure shielder or xbow or even a hybrid shielder/xbow that is just focusing on one or the other. So I don't see why a shielder/xbow hybrid is such a big deal.
I didn't know that with a shield a crossbowman is protected from range and doesn't need cover while reloading vs without a shield.
Throwing + 1h/shield is an excellent combo and in NA, the ravens did a great job of combining the two (as did NH in their day, which was basically ravens anyway). I'd rather go throwing/1h shield than use a 1h/shield with a xbow. Its much more fluid and effective imo.
Just because a pure build is better does not mean the hybrid build has a con.
I don't consider 140 1H wpf, 5PS, 8Ath and 5Shield (@lvl 31) to be disadvantaged enough to be classed as a con. Yes, its not the strongest but its definitely not weak either. Likewise, I don't consider 130 xbow wpf to be a con either.
Since we are deliberately misconstruing what other people write, I didn't know that a thrower's shield was active whilst they were aiming either. Alternatively if it wasn't deliberate and needs explaining here you go......
Xbow runs into open field -> HA comes along -> xbow fires and misses or fails to kill -> HA torments xbow who never makes it back to cover (unless the HA is utterly crap)
I run into open field -> HA comes along -> I fire and miss or fail to kill -> I pull out my shield and simply walk back to cover where i can reload and continue fighting
Throwing isn't comparable - It has a skill associated with it to make a significant enough difference in melee build when using a shield so that it has a con - but throwing doesn't suffer from poor reload times and so the skill is justified in my opinion. Adding a skill to xbows would definitely unbalance them compared to throwing in particular as they would have similar melee capabilities but still have way slower reload times - another reason not to have an xbow skill although if throwers were more realistically limited with ammo then i guess this point would disappear.
A reloading skill is a good idea, but I have no confidence that the devs are willing or able to do this. They have commented multiple times that most of the skill system is hard-coded.
A reloading skill is a good idea, but I have no confidence that the devs are willing or able to do this. They have commented multiple times that most of the skill system is hard-coded.
The devs/balancers gave the player base a gift (the 0 and 1-requirement shields that are low weight and high armor), but most people have refused this gift. If I had a dollar for every time I shot a 2h hero in the face while he walked up a ladder in siege, despite him having 2 free slots...
Those 0 and 1 slot shields would have shattered instantly and your bolt would still have damaged them.
If shitty things like this that is proposed happens, prepare for an archer invasion. And I will be the first that will change the class. And we will hear the same raging about archery. ;)
If shitty things like this that is proposed happens, prepare for an archer invasion. And I will be the first that will change the class. And we will hear the same raging about archery. ;)
And another -1 for your next post. And infinite -1 to all of antiranged lobby. And dont tilt, I don't care. The reason is so simple. Archers gain benefits from PD. 16% damage to damage poll for every point in power draw. Throwers get a +/-10% damage bonus from each PT. Cavalry get bonus from each riding point. Do you want to add a skill for xbow? Ok. Power reload. 10% decrease reload time for each skill point ;) Oh! And I guess you won't find it fair. I also do not find it fair.
Steady hands, power reload, and that all bullshit you are trying to convince yourselves that xbow + 1h is op. You want to ruin our class. Not asking only for a non-benefit skill for nerfing the class. You are asking on other thread suggestions to increase STR requeriments. Ok. I accept. Increase in +3 the STR requeriment of all kind of armor, because I feel or I think the requeriments are too low. No. Stop the nerfing rage. What is OP? xbow? 1handed stab? Is just rage about all kind of ranged? I remember everyone that xbow have suffered no important changes. Arbalest was nerfed about 1 year ago. The only thing that changed is xbow population. A new fever. A ciclic crpg history. And i'm bored of one man army heroes crying on forums 24h/7/365. I don't ask for a nerf never as long as I remember and I blame the bunch of forum whiners crpg have. Is exhausting.
The most horrible crpg disease is the massive nerf the game suffered in two years. If I nerf A, B becomes powerful. Forum ragers whining about nerfing B. Devs nerfed B so C become powerful. Another rage campaing to nerf C and we can repeat this history to the infinite. And nothing changed. Ranged still kill. 2h heroes are superb op. Expert pikeman jumper metagamers. The thing, that I notice, is that very skilled players changed their class to xbow after 1h stab was buffed. In a slow progression. And you are all suffering the consecuences of game unbalance. Insane amount of cav? Insane amount of ranged. Insane amount of 2h heroes? Insane amount of cav & ranged. Rock, paper, scissors.
And things that break balance didn't change at all since crpg 2010. Unfair autoteam balance. 20 byzantium playing against 20 peasants & random players (for example, I have nothing against Byz). 10 cav in team A. 0 cav in team B. So I know, that devs will do that they think is the better option for the game. But I played this game since two years. And I played all kind of classes. HA, HX, footman, polearm, 2h, archer, xbowman. And I have a global idea of the game balance. And we are not breaking it at all. Is just an increase of population. And I have to see how a bunch of my old friends is asking to nerf my class because they do not accept that we can kill from the distance. Just it.
Play and let us play. And let us play the class we want. No the class you want for me. If you don't like xbow class do not play it. But don't ask for unnecesary changes because we are not breaking the balance at all. Stop the inquisition.(click to show/hide)
And I wish that devs learned from this pathethic nerf history on melee battlegrounds. And not to do the same again. Play and let all classes play.
Do you think kafein that we should change our style because you like to play naked? Seriously, fuck you all. All your lobbyism. You are justifying a nerf on xbow population, just because it increased. A dangerous precedent. Adapt your playstyle and learn to play.
Your arguments (in general) are tendentious, fallacies. Stop the inquisition I said. And I say it again.
And another -1 for your next post. And infinite -1 to all of antiranged lobby. And dont tilt, I don't care. The reason is so simple. Archers gain benefits from PD. 16% damage to damage poll for every point in power draw. Throwers get a +/-10% damage bonus from each PT. Cavalry get bonus from each riding point. Do you want to add a skill for xbow? Ok. Power reload. 10% decrease reload time for each skill point ;) Oh! And I guess you won't find it fair. I also do not find it fair.
Xbows have always been bullshit. And if you think those things are cyclic, tell me when exactly did the xbow population decrease ? And why would it decrease in the future if nothing changes ?
Well that's extremely egoistic for someone that doesn't let other people play the game through ingame griefing. Do you think I want being shot at? No, I don't, I never do. Yet your kind of asshats keep on shooting me and interrupting my gametime with useless and undeserved deaths for your own egoistic enjoyment. Do you think that's fair? Do you think that's more fair than me coming here on the forums and saying that your bullshit has to be toned down? You contribute nothing to the fun aspect of this game, I don't see any reason to maintain your egoistic playstyle.
Archers have more noticeable WPF impacts from taking too much armour and they generally want to take 2 lots of ammo more than xbowers do, which means they need to think about reducing armour so they don't run too slowly. Xbowers have less weight with 1 stack of ammo even, and they don't need as much because of the reload time and higher damage
Just xbowers are really badly implemented into the game