Nice thread, xbows back (?) to 3 slots - were they ever using 3 slots?
didnt read just +1 for title
...this, but i would concider >20-30% ranged = no fun
But biggest problem is number of ranged players, this game completely lose fun factor if there's more than 50% of ranged on server. Even archers hate to shoot other archers.
I've always thought it was silly to 'nerf ranged into da ground' to make it an undesirable class. It makes playing melee so much more interesting and thought provoking, I think anyway.
xynox incoming wach out
I have 54 hit points, 52 head armor and 65 body armor.61body armor and steevee 3 shot me, but last shoot is like for 10% hp
My shield doesn't protect me from ranged at all. Sometimes they can even shoot me directly from the front. Shots from the sides always hit, no matter how small the angle (or how wide my shield/how high my shield skill) is.
Archers can kill me with a single headshot and one bolt in the chest takes about 80% of my hit points (I am not exaggerating). Considering the insane number of ranged this is just a fucking joke.
Did I already mention the hordes of horse archers terrorizing EU_1?
Nerf ranged or they will kill the mod. The current state of the game is just extremly frustrating (especially battle). Balance never felt that bad to be honest. This is a melee-simulation which simply doesn't work properly if 1/3 - 1/2 of the players are using ranged classes. It is not fun if you have to hide the whole round from ranged only to wait for another delaying horse archer at the end...
Don't get me wrong, ranged is a part of the game and should be viable. But at the moment it is way too strong/tempting.
Oh and also finally nerf fucking Awlpikes. :mad:
I have 54 hit points, 52 head armor and 65 body armor.
My shield doesn't protect me from ranged at all. Sometimes they can even shoot me directly from the front. Shots from the sides always hit, no matter how small the angle (or how wide my shield/how high my shield skill) is.
Archers can kill me with a single headshot and one bolt in the chest takes about 80% of my hit points (I am not exaggerating). Considering the insane number of ranged this is just a fucking joke.
Did I already mention the hordes of horse archers terrorizing EU_1?
Nerf ranged or they will kill the mod. The current state of the game is just extremly frustrating (especially battle). Balance never felt that bad to be honest. This is a melee-simulation which simply doesn't work properly if 1/3 - 1/2 of the players are using ranged classes. It is not fun if you have to hide the whole round from ranged only to wait for another delaying horse archer at the end...
Don't get me wrong, ranged is a part of the game and should be viable. But at the moment it is way too strong/tempting.
Oh and also finally nerf fucking Awlpikes. :mad:
I have 56 hp and wear about 70 body armor and 32 head armor. I am a shielder. I don't find ranged to be a problem at all. My shield almost always protects me from any archer I'm aware of, whether they are in front of me or on the side. A quick turn and some practice makes it easy to catch arrows.
The arrows that do hit me don't bother me too much. They take about 25% of my hp most of the time. Long range shots hurt less. I basically shrug them off unless there is a headshot or I'm hit by a heavyer xbow. I die from ranged plenty, but usually just lucky shots or sneak-shots. If I'm aware of them I usually don't get bothered. Hell, even just holding a shield up will make the archer shoot for a different target if one's available.
Arbalest (and perhaps H. Xbow I dont' know) do a hell of a lot of damage. I've never had a bolt go through my H. Kite Shield yet though.
I have 56 hp and wear about 70 body armor and 32 head armor. I am a shielder. I don't find ranged to be a problem at all. My shield almost always protects me from any archer I'm aware of, whether they are in front of me or on the side. A quick turn and some practice makes it easy to catch arrows.
The arrows that do hit me don't bother me too much. They take about 25% of my hp most of the time. Long range shots hurt less. I basically shrug them off unless there is a headshot or I'm hit by a heavyer xbow. I die from ranged plenty, but usually just lucky shots or sneak-shots. If I'm aware of them I usually don't get bothered. Hell, even just holding a shield up will make the archer shoot for a different target if one's available.
Arbalest (and perhaps H. Xbow I dont' know) do a hell of a lot of damage. I've never had a bolt go through my H. Kite Shield yet though.
Quota system will not happen, have been suggested so many times. Leave that dead horse to rot.I don't think so.
I don't say that there wouldn't also be the need to tweak at ranged stats and gear, but If you wont want to nerf it into the ground to reach fewer numbers, "taking away interrupt effect , the shooting through shields effect" alone wont stagnate the ranged numbers, whereby those maybe quite ok changes. If you then also make the builds less effective(less wpf ...) fewer bolts/arrows, less dmg, then you get into an area where you drive away players who had been playing their characters for a long time and then may see themselves treated unfairly. If you introduce quotas, you have a "balancing" not "nerfing/buffing" tool. Get someone in charge of the % per server, he could change that on a weekly base, or we could get votes up in the forum where we could orientate at, but you then would have less players not by nerf but by setting limits.(click to show/hide)
I seriously think ranged simply need a damage nerf. It's just absurd that an xbow doing as much damage as they do is so easy to use.
Nerf them, and nerf cav maneuver too to make up for it so cav will not grow even stronger because of it.
There is a guide I put together for just this occasion. I'm telling you I'm 13 gen shielder and I really honestly do not have much trouble at all with ranged. Maybe it can help some of you out.
http://forum.melee.org/guides/(guide)-how-to-defend-against-archers-xbows-and-not-become-a-statistic/
Not everybody is, or wants, to be a shielder I guess, so your perspective is different than theirs. There are pikemen, shieldless infantry etc, they are the ones having the trouble.
There is a guide I put together for just this occasion. I'm telling you I'm 13 gen shielder and I really honestly do not have much trouble at all with ranged. Maybe it can help some of you out.I may be wrong... dunno... but could it be that you're NA?
http://forum.melee.org/guides/(guide)-how-to-defend-against-archers-xbows-and-not-become-a-statistic/
My guide is for all classes. And it works. Did you read it and try it?
Also there are shielder a complaining in this thread too.
Also, why shouldn't 2h and pole players complain about ranged? The day they a finally stop complaining is the day ranged has been needed way too far.
Way too many ranged everywhere...........
My shield doesn't protect me from ranged at all. Sometimes they can even shoot me directly from the front. Shots from the sides always hit, no matter how small the angle (or how wide my shield/how high my shield skill) is.
2handers and ranged should jump from a cliffno u
Bullshit.
Get a shield lol
I had a shield, when I still played.
Only problem i have with archery is the fact that you dont really need to loom anything to be effective, if you want to be a second or 2 faster shot you loom a bow to +3 but thats pretty much it and thats not really necessary anymore because high wpf gives speed too.how that is a problem
This pretty much explains why theres so much ranged, you dont need loomed bows or arrows anymore to kill people with like 2-3 shots and thats just wrong, bows & arrows needs to be nerfed pre damage buffs and return the looms giving dmg bonuses, game fixed, no more HAs 2 shotting a plate dude.
A few nights ago i played on eu1 with ~40-50 other players. Map was some random steppe shit. Both teams used shield walls. Guess what happened? Within 1st 2 min i saw only 2 ranged kills, both killing 2h heroes that didnt follow the shield wall. After shield walls collided it was pretty much even fight. Ranged were killing, melee were killing, it was as you would say "balanced" fight. It was also really fun to play, and nobody complained except those solo wanna-be-heroes. All the rounds after that one had pretty much the same outcome - shield wall, retards get shot, after that is done teams collide and fun.
Is it just me or melee guys think they can go solo and kill them all?
Learn to comprehend the meaning of the word "team" in this game. After all when the round ends the game says "[insert color] TEAM has won the round!"
Aren't you the leader of cRPG's largest archer clan? :rolleyes:
I got the leader rank so i can do certain things i cannot without the leader rank. So im only the leader on the paper but Quincy_Maat is the only true leader. Some others in Quincy clan also have a leader rank for the same reasons i do. Even if i were the true leader what difference would it make? I was only Quincy at that moment on eu1. Please explain what you wanted to say?
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My sociological theory on this is that in NA, people think they have to compensate their manliness by swinging a large weapon, while in EU, people are more relaxed and comfortable as they are, mainly because they are more intelligent, and not so influenced by the body-obcessed american culture.
You remind me of Chagan Arslan, leader of GK. He also used to lobby hard against any cavalry nerfs, even when that class was clearly broken. After horses were balanced, he decided to quit playing cRPG.There is a big difference between balancing out things and nerfing things.
You're native player, aren't you?Only multiplayer m&b i ever played was cRPG (i exclude maybe several native games with a few friends).
This is not about 1h stab or archery damage, this thread is about amount of archers on servers and only temporary cure for that is nerf. Happened before plenty of times.
Native is basically what you say, if you're not ranged bring a shield. Teamplay blah blah. Well, you have to realize that many people who play cRPG exiled from native. They dont' want cRPG to become ranged fest like native is. This is and always were, predominantly melee oriented mod.
how that is a problembecause this game is about grinding exp to loom stuff ? if a melee dude needs to loom weapons or armor to live longer and get more damage done, why ranged doesnt?
There is a big difference between balancing out things and nerfing things.true
...
Teamplay my ass, when i often get online in the evening i want to have just a few fun hours, that maybe with teamplay that maybe completly mindless and/or without teamplay, but please dude get of your high horse we are here not contesting for the para-olympics even though when i look at some clans you may just think that is the case ^^.(click to show/hide)
With bolts that would make 4 slots, limiting xbowers to 1h 0-slot weapons.
Which are excellent. Longer weapons (2H, Polearms) have negative effect on movement speed, shorter 1H are match in heaven for ranged.
You obviously don't understand how they balance this mod and items. When something is overused, it gets nerfed. Then, after some time they re-buff that item and so on. By doing that, they force players to use different items. Players also spend looms and gold to acquire new items, which is good for overall balance.
You obviously don't understand how they balance this mod and items. When something is overused, it gets nerfed. Then, after some time they re-buff that item and so on. By doing that, they force players to use different items. Players also spend looms and gold to acquire new items, which is good for overall balance.
It works like that because of massive forum QQing
It's simple: full wipe would solve everything. By the time they reach level 35 and all their gear loomed again most of them would quit being archers and only those few incurable my old friends like Bagge would remain.
It's simple: full wipe would solve everything. By the time they reach level 35 and all their gear loomed again most of them would quit being archers and only those few incurable my old friends like Bagge would remain.
But San is right, and as Apsod said on server: Major problem with archery is that there's nothing efficient against them. That's their strength. When they grow in numbers, they are unstoppable on all besides open plains maps.
I'm gonna try not to laugh at this... he he heheh ueuee :)
I'm not laughing, but quietly smiling.
I am the counter to archers. I carry a heavy shield and wear heavy armor. I eat archers for breakfast and second breakfast. I laugh with glee when they flee before me. I storm groups of archers and scatter them to the winds. I storm their strongholds. I take by force their hills. They quake with fear and wet their undies as I approach to melee distance -- only for me to turn away when they drop their bows as I pursue their counter-part archer instead...until they are all running scared or hopelessly trying to fight me in hand-to-hand combat. I delight in sneaking up behind them and 1-shotting them. I am fulfilled by the sound of their arrows harmlessly "thunking" against my shield and the their death-cries as they die.
There is a counter to ranged. Follow me.
I'm not laughing, but quietly smiling.
I am the counter to archers. I carry a heavy shield and wear heavy armor. I eat archers for breakfast and second breakfast. I laugh with glee when they flee before me. I storm groups of archers and scatter them to the winds. I storm their strongholds. I take by force their hills. They quake with fear and wet their undies as I approach to melee distance -- only for me to turn away when they drop their bows as I pursue their counter-part archer instead...until they are all running scared or hopelessly trying to fight me in hand-to-hand combat. I delight in sneaking up behind them and 1-shotting them. I am fulfilled by the sound of their arrows harmlessly "thunking" against my shield and the their death-cries as they die.
There is a counter to ranged. Follow me.
You obviously don't understand how they balance this mod and items. When something is overused, it gets nerfed.
Except for 2h stab and longswords.
Really though, the problem is not the amount of ranged, it's how the classes are balanced when people spawn in. For example, and as stated above, on low pop servers, even full ones occasionally all the heavy cav, ranged, HA whatever gets balanced to the same team. That is what the problem is, in my opinion, not people playing a particular class.
Except for 2h stab and longswords.
Really, guys. Team class balance, restricting amount of ranged per team will not happen.. It's been suggested for 2 years.
Garison, I'd like you see that archer hill, when it's actually defended by a melee player as very often happen on EU. Or some random cav knocks you down in front of it.. :rolleyes:
On EU archers are not just scrubs who can't block like in the old days. If you manage to actually get to bagge or certain others, you have a very though melee fight ahead as well! :D
Seriously, just reduce their ammo.
Don't make me change the font size.
No sir, some of us are already relying on 1 quiver to play with. You might have a point if you say, limit to 1 quiver exept if ur on a horse. But nerfing everyone because of some, is a bad policy.
Btw, class balance and quotas would not solve the actual problem. The actual problem is that a team with a ranged stack has no specific weakness linked to being a ranged stack. To create arbitrary limits to ranged stacking is just avoiding the problem rather than solving it, and it won't work once more people respec to ranged, which will happen one way or the other.
Upkeep increase for archers obviously doesn't work (since selling heirloom points became possible upkeep has no meaning)Elitist comment from person who clearly already has all the loomed items they need.
But this time don't nerf their melee ability because most of them can't or simply don't use melee weapons.
ranged nerf should be hardcore to put things into shape once again
Elitist comment from person who clearly already has all the loomed items they need.TBH I don't even have a seriously big issue with the strength of ranged atm, I'd like to see some changes to make gameplay more fun for melee without nerfing ranged or with buffing something different with every nerf (super low distance shots (as in shots you can't possibly fucking miss due to practically being inside the person you're shooting at) glancing but ranged overall being made more accurate, the extra armor penetration stat being removed but all basedamaged buffed, MotF instantly spawning when one team only has cav/people with higher than 8 ath, ranged being decently buffed in melee so once you chase them down it's fun to fight them, Quincy being mass permabanned for abusing bannerbalance to stack ranged and classbalance being implemented (seriously, if not for the fact that all archers in Quincy suck at anything cRPG related including archery we'd be fucked)).
There are ways to avoid paying any upkeep at all (without playing with broken gear), upkeep therefore doesn't matter if you know how to do that.
Because all my skill points have to go into PD and WPF, none left of IF or PS. Also, can't wear armour because weight penalty.
I love seeing people cry about the weight penalty, truth be told as long as you don't wear highend armor it basically removed next to no wpf, and if you didn't insist on stacking my old friendchery to the max you'd easily be able to fit in some ps and still be a decent my old friendcher.
I don't play EU so...
Really? You dont think ranged are usefull to handle cav and other ranged? Dont you know that from the moment ranged get on the battlefield they run the risk of getting 1 hitted/lanced/run over/shot, just for daring to stand still and aim at the enemy? Dont you think it's a huge risk for ranged to even thread the battlefield without a proper melee capability? How about you play the class some more, then talk about risk and teamplay. :rolleyes:I have played archer and thrower extensively, there is this thing called elevated spots, most maps have them, they're essentially unreachable by cavalry, and if you bother looking around the slightest cavalry and infantry won't be able to reach you without being shot. Melee can handle cav just fine, and yes, ranged counters ranged, in fact, ranged is the only thing that counters ranged, which is one of the things people hate about ranged, also, I've said it before and I'll say it again: The archers who say "ooooh stoooopit infanty no protect archer archer die and archer no shoot other archers" are always the exact same people who if asked in a conversation that isn't about nerfing ranged will always say "Yeah I'm so cool, I target 2h heroes first 2h gay, fuck 2h heroes, I only shoot 2h heroes and polemy old friends and 1h instastabbers."
Being on an elevated spot doesn't make you god, it gives you a wider view as well as making you a better target. And you're never unreachable, being able to plant one or two arrows in the enemy before getting butchered is crap, so dont give me that. And ranged being overwhelmed to death does happen, issues like HA delaying the round happen because of that, so I dont know what you're getting at. And like we agree, cav and ranged are more lethal to ranged than inf, so the only reason any ranged with some inteligence would target melee inf first, is because inf got too close too quickly(rushing) and needs to be dealt with. Otherwise they would't be targeted at all, not when there's more dangerous elements out there. For once, stop blaming others for your shortcomingsI am sorry but this is simply wrong for the majority of archers.
Being on an elevated spot doesn't make you god
Compared to everybody else on the server, it does.
As far as I know, cav doesn't fly in the sky, away from ranged and above infantry. Similarly, infantry doesn't create underground tunnel systems to avoid cav and ranged. Why is ranged the only class which can virtually insulate itself from everything except ranged?
No sir, some of us are already relying on 1 quiver to play with. You might have a point if you say, limit to 1 quiver exept if ur on a horse. But nerfing everyone because of some, is a bad policy.
Using ammo to balance would be nice.
I believe the devs made it 10x easier to scavenge quivers off the floor. No messing around with items now, just point and click and you're sorted.
The devs increased the amount of ammo on quivers
They made a bunch of weapons 0 slot
They buffed the crap out of 1 handers with stab
They made it so you don't need looms, which by itself might not be such a bad idea, but they did it only for ranged which indirectly nerfs everything else in the game that isn't loomed, including armour. They made it so anyone who is sick of getting killed can just make a ranged STF. And if you're sick of getting shot then just switch to your ranged guy to shoot people.
Devs buffed Steel Bolts recently with +damage for a bit more repair cost
They added a new high damage 5.2k bow, and buffed some of the others
Agi >18 now gives ranged more WPF in their ranged weapon
Countering ranged with ranged is killing the mod (mod is ded etc)
Only good balance things devs have done semi recently is increasing the slots on xbows and adding in some much needed weight
Sooooo... Ranged should only be able to be a threat after spending 6 generetions of collecting loompoints for bow&arrows?
For something that creates a feedback loop in the metagame "too much ranged->i'll play ranged to kill ranged" and for something thats 10x easier to pick up and play compared to melee I think you should have to spend some time to "unlock" higher ranged damage.
But aside from that, if you don't need looms for ranged you shouldn't for a melee's armour either, or for his weapon
Idea
Just leave Archery the fuck alone and lets focus on creating better stats for the donkey.
A shadownerf of sorts to crossbows :
Make crossbow Steelbolts 2slot.
While regular bolts stay 1slot.
Same amount of bolts in each pack.
Steelbolts should weigh 2x as much as regular bolts.
When was the last time you saw anyone using regular bolts?
A dedicated crossbowman would then not be like regular infantry when "caught", due to 0slot weapon and shield.
wrong thread? ... :D
Stream of people leaving cRPG atm.. I think it has to do with the current metagame.
Wake up Shik & Paul.
Go back to the old system where only longbows had pierce, that wasn't actually bad.
Oh boy.. Top ideas here. Make xbows 3 slots and steel bolts 2 slots. And double the weight? Again?
Now dont get me wrong I dont like the amount of ranged just like you but wtf are you suggesting...
There are too many ranged on eu servers, atm i mostly play with hi agi 1h no shield alt.
If you want to nerf amount of ranged you can do:
1. Reduce amount of arrows per quiver. 40 bodkins on +3 is too many, Bring it back to 34 as it was long time ago, do the same to other kinds of arrows.
2. Revert archery buff for non loomed equipment. After Wpf buff it's no needed.
3. Add skill for using x-bows
4. If not 3 increase str requirements for using xbows. To use most powerfull x-bow in game you 15 str only, for bows: 18 str AND 6 PD wich decreases your WPF
5. Make bolts and steel bolts weight higher.
6. For horse archers, make them shoot slower with bows while sitting on herseback compared to foot archers.
You can whine that for foot archer like me only nerf will be reducing ammo, but belive me, IMO it will be enought, no missiles, no shooting.
Facehug shooting is by far the biggest issue with ranged though.
There are too many ranged on eu servers, atm i mostly play with hi agi 1h no shield alt.
If you want to nerf amount of ranged you can do:
1. Reduce amount of arrows per quiver. 40 bodkins on +3 is too many, Bring it back to 34 as it was long time ago, do the same to other kinds of arrows.
2. Revert archery buff for non loomed equipment. After Wpf buff it's no needed.
3. Add skill for using x-bows
4. If not 3 increase str requirements for using xbows. To use most powerfull x-bow in game you 15 str only, for bows: 18 str AND 6 PD wich decreases your WPF
5. Make bolts and steel bolts weight higher.
6. For horse archers, make them shoot slower with bows while sitting on herseback compared to foot archers.
You can whine that for foot archer like me only nerf will be reducing ammo, but belive me, IMO it will be enought, no missiles, no shooting.
I thought around 28 for bodkins would be fine.
Would still love the ability to switch ammo types though. Would allow a bit of variety at least.
Right now there are 3 archers and 2 crossbowmans / 62 players on EU_1. How is that too many ranged?
Can we see server stats: amount of ranged, their damage and kill count compared to other classes? I'm pretty sure most people here are overacting.
Right now there are 3 archers and 2 crossbowmans / 62 players on EU_1. How is that too many ranged?
Can we see server stats: amount of ranged, their damage and kill count compared to other classes? I'm pretty sure most people here are overacting.
Utter bs. I've just been playing and you more than that per side + throwers/HA/HX
There is another thread for HA/HX, and i'm not counting throwers as ranged, since no one want to nerf them. Counting throwers as ranged, just to nerf archers is silly.Angellore, I know you enjoy bullshit and all, but I just joined EU_1, 18 people left in one team, 2 in another, more archers and xbowies than you listed amongst those survivors alone.
Angellore, I know you enjoy bullshit and all, but I just joined EU_1, 18 people left in one team, 2 in another, more archers and xbowies than you listed amongst those survivors alone.Then you should fear nothing when I ask to confirm this by admins, right?
(...) But biggest problem is number of ranged players, this game completely lose fun factor if there's more than 50% of ranged on server.
Then you should fear nothing when I ask to confirm this by admins, right?
EDIT: Screenshot from now - so many ranged kills, there has to be milion blind ranged on the server atm:(click to show/hide)
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Bagge, as the best Archer around. What is your opinion on this matter.. :)Inb4 nerf xbows revert weight nerf make bows 0 slot revert the buff to unloomed ranged
*Revert the non-loomed buff to bows, crossbows and quiversIs it a coincidence that not a single thing in this list nerfs you <3? And that every thing in this list nerfs the classes best at dealing with ranged besides throwers? (my list was soooo close to being right)
*Make all bows 1-slot
*Reduce quivers by 30-50%
*Big ass nerf to HX so we don't get to see their filthy faces anymore
*Dont fucking cry about everything that kills you
*Be happy
Hm? -50% arrows wouldn't?You love your Rus Bow, your Rus Bow takes 2 slots, 50% arrows would be offset by your Rus Bow taking 1 slot, allowing you to carry more arrows.
Anyway, the problem is all the fucking turds playing as an archer with non-loomed equipment and are doing just as much damage as me. Maybe if they were to recieve an damage nerf people would get so bored playing it cause they get 0 kills.
Hm? -50% arrows wouldn't?But I'm sure you are hitting 4/5 of your shots while they do 1/5-2/5
Anyway, the problem is all the fucking turds playing as an archer with non-loomed equipment and are doing just as much damage as me. Maybe if they were to recieve an damage nerf people would get so bored playing it cause they get 0 kills and then they try something else.
Anyway, the problem is all the fucking turds playing as an archer with non-loomed equipment and are doing just as much damage as me. Maybe if they were to recieve an damage nerf people would get so bored playing it cause they get 0 kills and then they try something else.Yeah so unfair that someone gets to play a class effectively without grinding for 400 hours first to loom the stuff, such poor game design.
Yeah so unfair that someone gets to play a class effectively without grinding for 400 hours first to loom the stuff, such poor game design.When i were starting this game i were forced to do this.
When i were starting this game i were forced to do this.All looms should be removed and your entire post is completely bullshit.
Even non loomed long bow or rus bow is effective (i mean state from before patch). Only thing you need to do it is learn how to use it in most efficient way. Looming bows is same as looming melee weapons.
Ppl using low tier bows are compensating their lacks in skill by fire ratio, they are just spamming arrows.
For me it's normal that if you want to kill, you have to be good and have proper weapon, not whining all the time: "this is op, why he is killing so many ppl"
Even without loomed bows from times before patch killing enemies were possible, as proof look here: http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/achievements/135/ page 10.
cheers :)
Yeah so unfair that someone gets to play a class effectively without grinding for 400 hours first to loom the stuff, such poor game design.
I'd get a proper 1-slot melee weapon instead of extra arrows, so would probably 90% of the archers do.
More melee power, less kiting since you might be able to some damage in melee, and perhaps we will see less pure archer builds with 200 wpf. Hybrid builds would be more attractive
Fuck that, I can't block.
All looms should be removed and your entire post is completely bullshit.
-Modify the effective WPF equation for ranged only. This, if possible, could be in effect when a character possess over X wpf in a ranged category. This would force all ranged into lighter armor to be effective at their class, making them easier to kill.
Lowering missile speed for x-bows won't change anything because they will still hit like a truck...Of course it will, missile speed is one of the most important attributes of ranged weapons. It influences how much you have to lead your target instead of just lazering them to death. I am in favour of lower missile speeds because it makes playing crossbow more skillful. The lower the missile speed, the more you have to read the movement of your target, anticipate it and then adjust your aim accordingly. It will seperate the experienced crossbowmen from the nubs. It also creates the opportunity to dodge, instead of just having no chance against most arbalesters.
Nerfs that must happen: Reduce missile speed. I have been shield pierced through a heavy round shield way too many times. It is laughable actually.Now if this is what Steevee meant exactly he is right. Lowering missile speed will have no effect on shield piercing. Shield piercing depends on damage and the armour of your shield as far as I know, and I think it is a fairly shitty and unneeded mechanic.
idk about missile speed. It's a very lame nerf that effectively makes shooting more random. In theory it sounds okay, but since very few players run in straight lines anyway it rather gives shooting a sense of luck than skill. I know from my long range throwing how hopeless it is to predict where players go.
I'd rather just see a damage nerf. Either in nerfing unloomed gear, but since that smells more of postponing a problem rather than dealing with it, an overall ranged damage nerf would be more sensible.
We have to protect the core of the game that is melee mechanics. Fight ranged and other lameness, and try to fix the abused and glitchy gameplay..
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And a side note: BOW is 4 powerdraw, and 2 slots, Yumi is 6 PD, ONE slot, AND USEABLE from horseback. Fuckoff.I've heard rumours that the Yumi is about to change at some point...
Why this tread still in Suggestion corner? It's wet and salty like an ocean.
Also, get a shield, nubs
-Modify the effective WPF equation for ranged only. This, if possible, could be in effect when a character possess over X wpf in a ranged category. This would force all ranged into lighter armor to be effective at their class, making them easier to kill.
WPF problem is mostly for x-bow, archers and throwers have penalty due to PD and PT.
Lowering missile speed for x-bows won't change anything because they will still hit like a truck...
Now if this is what Steevee meant exactly he is right. Lowering missile speed will have no effect on shield piercing. Shield piercing depends on damage and the armour of your shield as far as I know, and I think it is a fairly shitty and unneeded mechanic.
...That or that high armor values of any shield seems to have no effect or that high armor values + high shield skill seems to have no effect either. If a shield is supposed to counter ranged, which it doesnt, even if the former mentioned problem would be solved, but theoreticly if it would, then still having to invest heavily sepparetly into shield skill while XBow doesnt need that sepparate investement while penetrating shields ... calling it a discrepancy would be to put it midly.
Regardless, I find it pathetic that high tier shields that are unloomed offer little protection from arbalests.
Regardless, I find it pathetic that high tier shields that are unloomed offer little protection from arbalests.
Don't forget that any amount of range from the shooter decreases the damage.
I have 13 gens shielder. I have never had an arbalest penetrate a shield that requires 4 shield skill or above.
Don't forget that any amount of range from the shooter decreases the damage.gen 26 lvl 36 shielder,5000hours+ crpg, 95% on eu servers, before latest respec i had 11 shieldskill now 10. While this information you and me just exchanged, doesnt matter at all in this discussion, perhaps your thought patterns need these informations to accept opinions or if people tell you that it can happen, that you would believe it as again the information we just shared weren't about facts concerning penetration happening or not.
I have 13 gens shielder. I have never had an arbalest penetrate a shield that requires 4 shield skill or above.
quite a number of them seem to hate me with a passion
Dude. nice essay.
Players don't ever hate you because you target them. They dislike you because you have the most free time to play and level to a point they never can, the opportunity to make a really cool class, and WHAT do you do?
Shield and pick.
You didn't train Wolves to flank with you, your build isn't best on flanks, you just like to fight away from clusterfucks because you DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT ATTACK DIRECTION YOUR GOING TO DO BEFORE YOU DO IT, because you spam down guys with you very fast attacks that never glance, LESS so with newest patch, while using high shield skill to avoid ever having to make a single manual block or learn any of the finesse of Mount and Blade. You don't have any skills. You fucking bully low levels, noobs, and anyone who finds themselves looking the other way.
Almost everyone else ingame when facing a silly nooby or a peasant will try to punch or kick them, give them a chance, because it's a game for fun, sometimes literally just ignore them. Not Kinngrim :C Well, cav are mostly like that also, but yeah, we can add you to the list with Riddaren, Oberyn, Torben and the rest of the guys who have been playing the longest, have the least idea how to fight in melee, and are the very best at killing players who are either a/ not aware of them because you strike from behind or b/ unable to fight back due to level or gear.
When in strat battle I hear "Permission to flank" from you, I fucking laugh aloud to myself: You literally have don't have a clue tactically or any other way what's going on, you just like to hunt down players who cannot realistically fight back.
Your opinion is not valid. In anything. Ever.
/rant
I hate xbows more than archers because they can hold until you get predictable with your movements. With archers, you can at least predict when they're going to shoot.
Archers can hold aim for quite a long time themselves. It's not much different from an xbow, because average xbow holds his attack slightly longer than average archer when facing shieldless melee threat going for him.
Archers can hold aim for quite a long time themselves.
Wut? Archer aim Can't hold aim for shit until WPF = 160+
I wish that your erection will be as long, as archer ability to hold aim with 163 wpf in archery.
Now, that's from AGI 2H point of view. Don't understand why kinngrimm has issues, he has a lot more ATH than me and shield. I would have no issue to deal with archers if I had his build, mainly because I never attack before I bump ranged with shield (when I'm playing shielder).
How armor weight penalty for archers work these days? Is it still capped at 10 weight combined, with multiplicators for certain parts of armor (if I'm not mistaked, 3xgloves, 2xhead, restx1)?Hand armor is X4 and cap is at 10 :)
2) Accuracy overall is too high on bows. Be it on a horse back or on foot. When dehorsed I manage easily to make 50% of my arrows hit on mid-range with a horn bow. I don't do headshots but those are not needed. I can inflict damage on so many different targets in such a short time that just hitting things is already a huge support to my team. And I know from experience that every arrow hurts.
3) Heavy horses can soak too much damage from ranged. I play with a non-loomed warhorse and it takes easy 8 arrows in various places before it dies. That is way too much.
Nerfing accuracy is a bad idea for balancing ranged classes.
That's plenty enough time to get shot around your shield.
Also nowadays, when you approach a ranged nest, the closest to you with start fighting in melee, and it may take a couple of seconds or dozens of seconds to kill him, which is also enough for the others to shoot you down.
If someone is able to ambush ranged and get into their nest unnoticed, and they can't fight back with melee weapon, they should die. If they can defend themselves, they deserve to win. But short range shooting is bullshit.
Nerfing accuracy is a bad idea for balancing ranged classes. It limits skill and makes randomness a bigger factor. Other stats could be adjusted since you can adapt to it, but accuracy nerf just fucks people over even if they play well, which I find rather silly. :?I didn't suggest any solution cuz I honestly lack the experience to propose anything. I merely wrote down my experiences I made over the last few weeks playing my HA alt.
All about speed bonus. Heavy Horses suck up a lot of projectiles if they run away, then again, 1-3 hits with good speed bonus is enough to take them down. I think that's fine myself. I play mostly on destrier and padded warhorse and performance- and survivability-wise they don't differ much from another.
But short range shooting is bullshit.
try holding a xbow in front of your face in real life and pull the trigger. Not bullshit, but a good deed and an enlightening experience :)I have this strange feeling leshma isn't talking realism...
I have this strange feeling leshma isn't talking realism...
You wanted to kill em all on your own, huh...
try holding a xbow in front of your face in real life and pull the trigger. Not bullshit, but a good deed and an enlightening experience :)
Archers can hold aim for quite a long time themselves. It's not much different from an xbow, because average xbow holds his attack slightly longer than average archer when facing shieldless melee threat going for him.
That's bullshit and at least one of you knows that.it is why i stope reading posts here
Somehow I wouldn't be surprised if you saw one archer killing three 2h heroes at range in quick succession and comment "everything eez fine, archery counters shieldless inf"
That's bullshit and at least one of you knows that.
Only SB gunmen hold for like 20 seconds, until you get bored and leave them alone so they can keep running away from you. Other xbowmen aren't so patient, they hold for few seconds before they release the shot. I'm talking about EU players, of course. EU archers also like to use longbow and hold attack for few seconds when you're without shield and approaching them. But you use shield most of the time, don't you?
Archers can hold aim for quite a long time themselves. It's not much different from an xbow, because average xbow holds his attack slightly longer than average archer when facing shieldless melee threat going for him.
Boo hoo.
I won't go into the fact that as an archer I have to plug all my points in WPF and PD leaving me none for IF or PS making me a squishy glancing mess totally vulnerable to the smallest poke from any nearby stabby weapon.
I won't start moaning about all those OP melee 2h my old friends, because I choose to play my class (I find it fun) and understand the choices I'm making and their consequences. Therefore to overcome my squishyness I try to adjust my gameplay where possible to avoid melee deaths, but know that it is probably inevitable, and when it happens I accept it like a mature person and don't get all butthurt.
People, that's how you get rewarded for being the closest character possible to an actual ranged counter.
Yet, its still way more likely to see a shieldless inf kill 3 archers in rapid succession.
Not really, I do have an archer, specced a low level alt to archery, since I made my higher level archer into a shielder after the respec because of how OP it was, to try it out. Was disgustingly easy, immedietly put my looms for 1h into armory. Now I have an alt I don't even use... and have yet to shoot at Kinngrim with my low level archer, since he left EU1 because he didn't like that he got raped because he runs off alone. But tbh archery is boring and very frustrating not being able to do the core thing of this game: skill based melee fighting.
I mostly play polearms, and have my 2h of course, not really worried about fighting Kinngrim tbh.
Before respecc AND before arrow weight increase, with my archer: would fight kinngrim just fine. After the weight increase would just have to drop my arrows to fight him, its really not very hard to block left, kick and then kill him. I just dont like it when I see him spamming down poor clueless noobs who havent even managed to walk out of spawn, with their 1 athletics and their grey peasant shirt and sickle or some useless peasant shit they were given when they joined. And he calls it flanking, I call it killing poor unlucky noobs without giving them any way to fight back.
Between him and GK and others who made it their professional mission in game to get to enemy spawn as quickly as possible to kill guys who were too new to keep up with team or just did not know which way to go, we have probably lost countless players, who where told this is a good mod, came, were raped repeatedly in spawn and thought "Fuck it" and left.
Boo hoo.
I won't go into the fact that as an archer I have to plug all my points in WPF and PD leaving me none for IF or PS making me a squishy glancing mess totally vulnerable to the smallest poke from any nearby stabby weapon.
I won't start moaning about all those OP melee 2h my old friends, because I choose to play my class (I find it fun) and understand the choices I'm making and their consequences.
Therefore to overcome my squishyness I try to adjust my gameplay where possible to avoid melee deaths, but know that it is probably inevitable, and when it happens I accept it like a mature person and don't get all butthurt.
For every single class if you will make it lvl 35 you will be op compared to lvl 30.
IMO highest missile speed should have longbow (atm only yumi have lower missile speed ). Max missile speed should be as +3 long bow have atm, and rest bows should have it lower (lower dmg on bow -> lower missile speed)To my knowledge, composite bows launch arrows to much longer distances than longbows but that is another discussion of course. Although I'd rather prefer the native balance of bows (long bow being a cheap but not a good bow compared to others)
I wonder how did that shieldless inf get there in the first place. As this is obviously an imaginary scenario, he might have parachuted from a flying licorn.
Also, see my remark about spending a few seconds to kill the first one more than enough for the other guys to shoot you down.
Ninjas, and people who can dodge...
You cannot dodge the smaller bows. You can spastically run so the guys makes error, but if he doesnt fuck up, you have no way to avoid.
Ninjas, and people who can dodge rather than whining on forums about how they can't kill several people on their own. You'll notice groups of archers get cut down constanlty if you bother playing the class at a regular basis. But I suppose since you can't do it, you wouldn't know.
Ninjas are the ones who sneak, you dont have to be dressed in a certain way.
If you have issues with recent changes, then be specific, dont just ask for a general ranged nerf. Because I guarantee that proper 2 slot builds haven't gotten any stronger in the past year. And knowing that, a lot of generalized anti-ranged posts just drop like bullshit
He was about 600 metres away.
That is strange. Bows in Warband should have a maximum range of about 200-300m on flat ground. Was he by chance mounted on a helicopter pod?So, on one of strat battles i made HS from around 200 meters??? :shock:
That is strange. Bows in Warband should have a maximum range of about 200-300m on flat ground. Was he by chance mounted on a helicopter pod?
Ninjas are the ones who sneak, you dont have to be dressed in a certain way.
If you have issues with recent changes, then be specific, dont just ask for a general ranged nerf. Because I guarantee that proper 2 slot builds haven't gotten any stronger in the past year. And knowing that, a lot of generalized anti-ranged posts just drop like bullshit
Ninjas, and people who can dodge rather than whining on forums about how they can't kill several people on their own. You'll notice groups of archers get cut down constanlty if you bother playing the class at a regular basis. But I suppose since you can't do it, you wouldn't know.
As for killing time, do you think ranged kill faster than melee? Really? Do you know anything at all about the subject at hand?
Typical ranged fight : shoot, hit, shoot, miss, shoot, hit, dead.Again, too much one dimensional. First of all, you should avoid getting caught in such a scenario at the first place as much as you could, if you're a non shielder. Secondly, there should be objects that you should be able to use as cover.Thirdly, if you can succesfully dodge for enough of a time and reach the archer; now you'll have the advantage of melee fighting. To least to say, there should be some teammates helping you: a shielder you can hide behind, a cavalry that is backstabbing him, a horse archer bumping/shooting him, an archer shooting him down.
Again, too much one dimensional. First of all, you should avoid getting caught in such a scenario at the first place as much as you could, if you're a non shielder. Secondly, there should be objects that you should be able to use as cover.Thirdly, if you can succesfully dodge for enough of a time and reach the archer; now you'll have the advantage of melee fighting. To least to say, there should be some teammates helping you: a shielder you can hide behind, a cavalry that is backstabbing him, a horse archer bumping/shooting him, an archer shooting him down.
If there's no one else to help you:
1- you're either the latest survivor your team, swarmed by some enemy ranged (4v1 or so)
2- you were ramboing
3- You were careless
4- You were plain unlucky and a bit careless
5- It's an unbalanced map (mostly an open map)
Kafein - you are a funny guy, but no idea what game you have been playing over the last couple months.
Come to NA1 and see happy shielders murdering archers, and strong and proud archers making a stand and die like men (or fuck up arrogant melee with a knife).
(((oh, and I have seen this on EU1 as well, been lurking there quite a bit recently and having fun despite having 300 ping )))
((((I've even seen a HORSE ARCHER on EU1 getting of his horse at end of round, grabbing a 2h and fucking up the remaining melee guy 1vs1, happened minutes ago))))
The better infantry blob still wins the battle maps, not archers. At least on NA. It's been that way for years.This is usually the case in EU as well, however, with the current amount of ranged there playing melee isn't really fun, imo ranged and to a greater extent horseranged should always be underpowered to compensate for how onesided their gameplay is, currently even if it already is slightly underpowered (not enough imo, all ranged could use a damage nerf), there is so much ranged in EU (usually about half the server these days from my experiences) that we need bigger nerfs to compensate in order for melee fun, cause if melee feels like it doesn't get to enjoy its actual gameplay features ever without getting shot (as in, melee) they'll switch to ranged and to a lesser extent cav or just quit, the sooner some harsh nerf that could be lowered after a while is implemented, the less harsh a nerf is needed to break the endless spiraling growth of ranged. Infantry is still probably the biggest damage dealer, let's be real here, but when infantry feels like they die to ranged/cav more than to other infantry their gameplay feels horribe, cause unlike cav and ranged infantry can't engage from long distances/choose who and when to engage and then run off at extreme speeds.
This is usually the case in EU as well, however, with the current amount of ranged there playing melee isn't really fun, imo ranged and to a greater extent horseranged should always be underpowered to compensate for how onesided their gameplay is, currently even if it already is slightly underpowered (not enough imo, all ranged could use a damage nerf), there is so much ranged in EU (usually about half the server these days from my experiences) that we need bigger nerfs to compensate in order for melee fun, cause if melee feels like it doesn't get to enjoy its actual gameplay features ever without getting shot (as in, melee) they'll switch to ranged and to a lesser extent cav or just quit, the sooner some harsh nerf that could be lowered after a while is implemented, the less harsh a nerf is needed to break the endless spiraling growth of ranged. Infantry is still probably the biggest damage dealer, let's be real here, but when infantry feels like they die to ranged/cav more than to other infantry their gameplay feels horribe, cause unlike cav and ranged infantry can't engage from long distances/choose who and when to engage and then run off at extreme speeds.
Let's say I get behind cover or just "avoid this scenario". Now what ? This is the usual "It's not my problem" solution, which is not an actual solution. If nobody is ready to take some risks to go kill the enemy ranged, then nobody will do it. Of course, that's what actually happens.Archers are better left to the end of the round, with mostly inf+cav or archer+inf combination. That's how I see it works. An archer being chased with an infantry can't do much but to kite. One of the duties of cav is to prevent archers from kiting. A friendly archer also works well although cavalry is better for this job than archers.
Also, if you add other people that are commited to helping me (which is not realistic, just saying), then you have to add as many enemy archers. A cav guy sure as hell won't charge multiple ranged unless they are so close to each other it's possible to surprise and bump them all. A shielder will not actually do anything to protect me even if he wants to given current shield sizes. The only valuable asset would be ranged on my side. But then I might as well be ranged myself. I wonder how many people made the same reasoning, lets look at EU_1 herpaderp
2 archers and 2 inf
vs.
2 inf and 2 cav
infantry players fight with each other, 2 cavalry handles 2 archers with ease. Even if archers can shoot back, horses don't die in 2-3 shots that easily.
I could imagine your example only working on an open field when all 4 players are already very close to each other. The non-ranged group can win in the other disadvantaged situations only if the cav are better players.Actually the picture I had in mind was very close to something like that. Although one must not forget the objects can also work in the favor of cavalry too (like big buildings and ruins that will let cav to hide and take cover from arrows).