Nerf ranged

[CrazyCracka420]

Except for 2h stab and longswords.

Really though, the problem is not the amount of ranged, it's how the classes are balanced when people spawn in. For example, and as stated above, on low pop servers, even full ones occasionally all the heavy cav, ranged, HA whatever gets balanced to the same team. That is what the problem is, in my opinion, not people playing a particular class.

yes sir.  the balance of the server population has always caused the most problems with the mod.  a proper balance (or relative balance) between classes of players would go a long way towards quelling the cries for nerfs. 

[Leshma]

Except for 2h stab and longswords.

Stab was changed couple of times already.

I'm aware that Longsword is main flavor on NA for a long time, but until recently very few players used it on EU servers. And most balancers at that time were from EU so... expected Tydeus to reposition fast 2H swords (Longsword, Miaodao and Katana mainly) in the last patch but guess he had something else to work on.

[Thomek]

Really, guys. Team class balance, restricting amount of ranged per team will not happen.. It's been suggested for 2 years.

Garison, I'd like you see that archer hill, when it's actually defended by a melee player as very often happen on EU. Or some random cav knocks you down in front of it.. 

On EU archers are not just scrubs who can't block like in the old days. If you manage to actually get to bagge or certain others, you have a very though melee fight ahead as well!

[Penitent]

Hey guys -- I actually LIKE playing on teams that are unbalanced class-wise sometimes.

Most of the time, almost always, there is not a discernable imbalance between ranged/cav/shielders/2h.  There are a good mix on each team.

Sometimes, however, one side has more cave, or more ranged, or all shielders.

I like this -- it's fun and makes things interesting.  Sometimes It's a bunch of 2h vs a shield wall.  Sometimes is a cav army against ranged and polearms.  This is how real armies met, and for me it's really random and fun.

So yeah, take that into consideration.  If all the teams were nicely balanced every single round, it would get boring.

Try playing chess where one side gets all bishops and the other is knights and rooks.  It can make for a fun game -- once in a while.

[CrazyCracka420]

Really, guys. Team class balance, restricting amount of ranged per team will not happen.. It's been suggested for 2 years.

Garison, I'd like you see that archer hill, when it's actually defended by a melee player as very often happen on EU. Or some random cav knocks you down in front of it.. 

On EU archers are not just scrubs who can't block like in the old days. If you manage to actually get to bagge or certain others, you have a very though melee fight ahead as well!

Quota's is retarded.  Class balance is the smartest thing that could have been done in the last 2 years.  It doesn't have to be perfect, but if there's 10 horse archers/crossbow on the server, they should never be all 10 on one team, regardless of their banner.  Same with if there's 20 archers and crossbow, 15-20 should never all be on the same team.  Banner balance should be important, but not at the expense of a relatively balanced server (both skill and class). 

That's the problem.  Nothing needs to be nerfed.  And I agree Garison, I don't think a perfect class balance should be strived for.  I like fighting against different types of enemy armies.

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

Seriously, just reduce their ammo.

Don't make me change the font size.

[Adamar]

Seriously, just reduce their ammo.

Don't make me change the font size.

No sir, some of us are already relying on 1 quiver to play with. You might have a point if you say, limit to 1 quiver exept if ur on a horse. But nerfing everyone because of some, is a bad policy.

[Kafein]

No sir, some of us are already relying on 1 quiver to play with. You might have a point if you say, limit to 1 quiver exept if ur on a horse. But nerfing everyone because of some, is a bad policy.

Are you implying some archers do not deserve the hate ? 1 quiver is already way too many arrows.

Btw, class balance and quotas would not solve the actual problem. The actual problem is that a team with a ranged stack has no specific weakness linked to being a ranged stack. To create arbitrary limits to ranged stacking is just avoiding the problem rather than solving it, and it won't work once more people respec to ranged, which will happen one way or the other.

[Adamar]

Btw, class balance and quotas would not solve the actual problem. The actual problem is that a team with a ranged stack has no specific weakness linked to being a ranged stack. To create arbitrary limits to ranged stacking is just avoiding the problem rather than solving it, and it won't work once more people respec to ranged, which will happen one way or the other.

I agree, class design needs to change.

[HappyPhantom]

Upkeep increase for archers obviously doesn't work (since selling heirloom points became possible upkeep has no meaning)

Elitist comment from person who clearly already has all the loomed items they need.

But this time don't nerf their melee ability because most of them can't or simply don't use melee weapons.

Because all my skill points have to go into PD and WPF, none left of IF or PS. Also, can't wear armour because weight penalty.

ranged nerf should be hardcore to put things into shape once again

I don't play EU so...

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Elitist comment from person who clearly already has all the loomed items they need.
There are ways to avoid paying any upkeep at all (without playing with broken gear), upkeep therefore doesn't matter if you know how to do that.
Because all my skill points have to go into PD and WPF, none left of IF or PS. Also, can't wear armour because weight penalty.
I love seeing people cry about the weight penalty, truth be told as long as you don't wear highend armor it basically removed next to no wpf, and if you didn't insist on stacking my old friendchery to the max you'd easily be able to fit in some ps and still be a decent my old friendcher.
I don't play EU so...

TBH I don't even have a seriously big issue with the strength of ranged atm, I'd like to see some changes to make gameplay more fun for melee without nerfing ranged or with buffing something different with every nerf (super low distance shots (as in shots you can't possibly fucking miss due to practically being inside the person you're shooting at) glancing but ranged overall being made more accurate, the extra armor penetration stat being removed but all basedamaged buffed, MotF instantly spawning when one team only has cav/people with higher than 8 ath, ranged being decently buffed in melee so once you chase them down it's fun to fight them, Quincy being mass permabanned for abusing bannerbalance to stack ranged and classbalance being implemented (seriously, if not for the fact that all archers in Quincy suck at anything cRPG related including archery we'd be fucked)).

Also, anyone who cries "ooooh use teamplay" should go find a suitably tall building and jump off its roof, ranged is the only class whose teamplay consist of shooting teammates in the back in an attempt to get kills all while taking no risk, who don't need to use teamplay to deal with any enemy besides shielders, and the teamplay there is "have any other ranged players aiming at the shielders from a different angle than you", ranged teamplay doesn't penalize them or force them to not have fun shooting at shit, ranged teamplay isn't even real fucking teamplay. The teamplay you ask melee/cav to do is stand idly by doing nothing protecting you while you have fun using the actual mechanics of your class (shooting shit).

[Adamar]

Really? You dont think ranged are usefull to handle cav and other ranged? Dont you know that from the moment ranged get on the battlefield they run the risk of getting 1 hitted/lanced/run over/shot, just for daring to stand still and aim at the enemy? Dont you think it's a huge risk for ranged to even thread the battlefield without a proper melee capability? How about you play the class some more, then talk about risk and teamplay. 

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Really? You dont think ranged are usefull to handle cav and other ranged? Dont you know that from the moment ranged get on the battlefield they run the risk of getting 1 hitted/lanced/run over/shot, just for daring to stand still and aim at the enemy? Dont you think it's a huge risk for ranged to even thread the battlefield without a proper melee capability? How about you play the class some more, then talk about risk and teamplay. 

I have played archer and thrower extensively, there is this thing called elevated spots, most maps have them, they're essentially unreachable by cavalry, and if you bother looking around the slightest cavalry and infantry won't be able to reach you without being shot. Melee can handle cav just fine, and yes, ranged counters ranged, in fact, ranged is the only thing that counters ranged, which is one of the things people hate about ranged, also, I've said it before and I'll say it again: The archers who say "ooooh stoooopit infanty no protect archer archer die and archer no shoot other archers" are always the exact same people who if asked in a conversation that isn't about nerfing ranged will always say "Yeah I'm so cool, I target 2h heroes first 2h gay, fuck 2h heroes, I only shoot 2h heroes and polemy old friends and 1h instastabbers."

[Adamar]

Being on an elevated spot doesn't make you god, it gives you a wider view as well as making you a better target. And you're never unreachable, being able to plant one or two arrows in the enemy before getting butchered is crap, so dont give me that. And ranged being overwhelmed to death does happen, issues like HA delaying the round happen because of that, so I dont know what you're getting at. And like we agree, cav and ranged are more lethal to ranged than inf, so the only reason any ranged with some inteligence would target melee inf first, is because inf got too close too quickly(rushing) and needs to be dealt with. Otherwise they would't be targeted at all, not when there's more dangerous elements out there. For once, stop blaming others for your shortcomings

[Molly]

Being on an elevated spot doesn't make you god, it gives you a wider view as well as making you a better target. And you're never unreachable, being able to plant one or two arrows in the enemy before getting butchered is crap, so dont give me that. And ranged being overwhelmed to death does happen, issues like HA delaying the round happen because of that, so I dont know what you're getting at. And like we agree, cav and ranged are more lethal to ranged than inf, so the only reason any ranged with some inteligence would target melee inf first, is because inf got too close too quickly(rushing) and needs to be dealt with. Otherwise they would't be targeted at all, not when there's more dangerous elements out there. For once, stop blaming others for your shortcomings

I am sorry but this is simply wrong for the majority of archers.
Standard scenario on EU1: the first 2 round are lost for the team cuz of an obvious stacking of cav in the enemy team. The 2 rounds before archers were shooting non-shielded infantry for kills. Big shout in team chat "You damn archer pricks, start shooting the fucking cav". The result is that 50% of the own archer actually start out shooting at the enemy cav first. The result is a win for the round.
Next round is lost again cuz the majority starts shooting at non-shielded infantry again...

That is EU1 reality. Archers don't shoot inf first cuz of being threatened but cuz they give kills on the scoreboard.