Dont forget the increase in missile speed which was also an uneccesary buff, makes them even more accurate than before
I also want to remind devs that's a game called Mount&Blade, not a Counter Strike - medieval edition...
WHAT? It just changes how far in front you shoot if someone is running in a direction....hence more accurate. -.-
even archers are sick of archersNote that the archers with fully loomed 3+ long/rusbows are the archers who dislike the patch, this is what he dislikes "Making bows on +3 are at the moment almost a missunderstand, because when you spent 3 loompoint on it you will gain 2 points in speed and missile speed and 1 in accuracy. That's a bullshit.". best patch that happened to ranged in a long time, <3 u Tydeus (plz buff me). The patch buffed HA, and it rebalanced archery so that not only the long/rusbow were useful, this is pretty much just like the 2h heroes who cried "you broke my danish greatsword!" when the 2h section was balanced internally.
...hence more accurate. -.-
I wouldnt completely revert it, now somebody with unloomed gear can actuall be useful. This is possible for all melee classes.
Maybe just nerf by 2 damage points or something, nothing major. I dont think there is a lot of difference between getting shot once pre patch and getting shot once after patch, its just a higher amount of ranged now because finally you can do damage without spending 6 loompoints.
I still get onehit by pretty much everything on my xbow char and get 2-3 hit on my melee chars, no difference.
All unloomed gear sucks compared loomed gear.
whoa there Steveee, Paul says ranged is balanced and doesn't win the rounds, now dare you?!
rangedfest? I've gone so numb from the bullshit in this mod I just run around in my Pilgrim disguise with a bamboo spear and get oneshot by almost anybody 90% of the time so it doesn't really matter to me any more tbh.
Yeah because the speed of the arrow gives you a aimbot. I forgot that because I use a long bow over a yumi bow it's going to change how accurate I am.
Let's look at this from a logical point of view.
If I throw something at you travelling 1 m/s, and something 2 m/s, which one would be more accurate? The one flying faster because it reaches the destination faster, and because it reduces your ability to move out of the way.
Now do you understand its an accuracy buff?
Simple solution , Buff CAV :twisted:old lance angle
.
Back on topic: Ranged aren't OP by themselves. When they are in massive numbers they are fucking annoying and deadly.
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Yeah because the speed of the arrow gives you a aimbot. I forgot that because I use a long bow over a yumi bow it's going to change how accurate I am.Dude, seriously? The less you have to correct your aim cuz of external factors, the more accurate the weapon is... doesn't even matter which weapon.
The issues isn't the mode or the ranged damage or anything else than the amount.
As 1 melee guy, I can avoid 2 archers kinda decent when I try to get close to them. Sticking to walls, go around corners, try to get behind, not running a straight line and stuff like that. When there are blobs of 3 and more archers, it is just not possible...
Really good archers like Robin, Woodland, Nikodin... they are already hard to get when they are alone. Mediocre archers in blobs make that up with fire rate and their amount.
I don't pretend to have any idea how to solve this tbh. I firmly believe that the amount of them the is the real problem that needs solving tho.
I also want to remind devs that's a game called Mount&Blade...
Grums, the downvote war is on :rolleyes:
I am so tired of hearing this idiocy. Show me one Native faction that doesn't have bowmen or crossbowmen. I can name 2 factions that don't have mounted fighters.
Ranged is a problem on battle servers simply due to battle mode being a kind of flawed mode. Battle is all about killing and not dying, no objective. Change it something that got some sort of tactical objective and shit might start making sense. Also, maybe speed up melee abit.
Grums, the downvote war is on :rolleyes:
I am so tired of hearing this idiocy. Show me one Native faction that doesn't have bowmen or crossbowmen. I can name 2 factions that don't have mounted fighters.
I guess you could politely ask them to change class.
you just fucked those people in the arse who loomed bows to +3
you made the differences between +3 and normal peasent scrub bow so neglible they are not worth looming.
طالبان
Simple solution , Buff CAV :twisted:
LOL cmp mad :P
On the contrary, I find it quite amusing that somebody who plays one class is asking for the removal of a balancer who played pretty much every class in the mod and has shown to be free of bias countless times.
Amusing enough to warrant a title. :wink:
I'm asking for balance in the item balance team.
The balance team is already more balanced than you could ever imagine, so I guess there's nothing to change.
Tydeus is a well known ranged/cav hater and melee suprematist. He is also part of the balance team. The archery changes were done on his initiative.
Probably alot of newer players try out archers now since they actually can hurt people without having to sacrifice alot of hours to get looms.
Btw, if some of you people are so very annoyed by ranged, you could do something about it instead of flooding the forums with your tears. Try to find other people, organize, use gear and tactics to counter ranged and making their existance alot more annoying. It's doable, it just requires abit of an effort, a bigger effort then crying rivers. Create an anti-ranged death squad.
and you look at the server population you have to wonder if you made the right changes.
Get a group of 5 or 10 super agile power throwers running around the server with shield skill.And await the "NERF THROWERS OPOPOPOP" threads. :lol:
I remember when all bows did pierce damage :lol: But this clearly is a new level of OPness. Unloomed archers actually being able to hurt people with their bows?!
Yet the thought of adding guys with countering views is met with such hostility. If it were truly a balanced team you would welcome more guys
I don't believe he's not influenced by the guys who took him on board to make balance changes.
Accuracy, missile speed and 5 more arrows is nothing (33 % increase on bodkins is major!)? It's still a stat boost, and I'd definitely loom it if I wanted to archer again. At last the difference between looms and no looms on ranged weapons makes sense, lite it does with (most) melee weapons.
Yeah because the speed of the arrow gives you a aimbot. I forgot that because I use a long bow over a yumi bow it's going to change how accurate I am.
For me as an archer with MW stuff there are no noticable chenges in my gear except amount of arrows. But It's is a misunderstand that a new guy can buy a bow with same dmg as i have.
Make same thing to melee fighters anf wave ow whining will flood this forum and ingame chat.
Why more ammo matters? A good archer doesnt need more than 20 arrows per round in battle server.
We welcome more guys, and have already some names in mind. I don't know if you will like it, because they are not your names.
Actually, he suggested those changes all by himself. Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant.
You do realize a new guy would not do as well as you mostly due to the fact that they are new?
They did this to make it more based on skill and stats rather than gear. Now it is a little bit of both rather then just gear mattering.So if they want that why we still have looms?
More than 20, you say? Bodkins goes from 15 to 20 and is hands down the best arrows. You don't think people with need more than 15 arrows per round then? I've used more than my 34 mw bodkins in battles before, many times... You don't think that is a good buff? 2 slot bow, 1 slot weapon (langes messer, military sickle, mace etc.) and 20 bodkins is nothing to sneeze at.
So if they want that why we still have looms?
Now it is a little bit of both rather then just gear mattering.
Oh yes, yet another point:
Neither "get a shield" is a valid argument (as it's implying to change the class or build, which is not acceptable if the initial build is one which is meant to be valid, like pure 2hd/polearm for example), nor is "hide behind a shielder" (because to be in cover effectively you need teamspeak or fixed formations) or "stay in cover" (as you don't play the game while hiding behid cover), so please refrain from further usage of those arguments.
Oh, sorry, i forgot this isnt a team game. So basically we should all go solo and do what we think its best cus we are not using team speak together. Hmmm. How much IQ do u need to form a shield wall and and put 2h/poles behind/sideways and move as a group? Maybe a lot, but using simple [Q] "commands" can create that team spirit you speak of. Just have 2 ppl spamming commands and ppl start moving as a team, its that simple... I also thought [Q] menu was supposed to be used among ppl that are not in the same team speak (or not in team speak at all).
I wont say "take a shield" but i will say hide behind a shielder. Why have shielders if they dont provide cover? Ah right... selfish ppl take shields just to survive longer or something i guess. TEAM GAME FUCKING HELL... Use brains or listen to someone who actually uses it...
You want to be part of balance crew and u say "hide behind a shielder" is not good... My god...
If you need more than 20 arrows in battle server then you either suck or u shoot randomly for the lolz.
Oh, sorry, i forgot this isnt a team game. So basically we should all go solo and do what we think its best cus we are not using team speak together. Hmmm. How much IQ do u need to form a shield wall and and put 2h/poles behind/sideways and move as a group? Maybe a lot, but using simple [Q] "commands" can create that team spirit you speak of. Just have 2 ppl spamming commands and ppl start moving as a team, its that simple... I also thought [Q] menu was supposed to be used among ppl that are not in the same team speak (or not in team speak at all).
I wont say "take a shield" but i will say hide behind a shielder. Why have shielders if they dont provide cover? Ah right... selfish ppl take shields just to survive longer or something i guess. TEAM GAME FUCKING HELL... Use brains or listen to someone who actually uses it...
You want to be part of balance crew and u say "hide behind a shielder" is not good... My god...
At any rate, when you have even ranged guys wondering why they were buffed and you look at the server population you have to wonder if you made the right changes.I repeat the ONLY ranged players crying are the ones with 3+ rus/longbows and 3+ arrows who aren't miles above regular ranged anymore.
I repeat the ONLY ranged players crying are the ones with 3+ rus/longbows and 3+ arrows who aren't miles above regular ranged anymore.Im a dedicated horn bow archer since i started playing this game, and im crying a little bit. But my cries go mostly to the fact that bow "realism" is broken. Short bow, bow and long bow are the "best" bows in this game since the last patch. Just take a look at their stats. But in reality they are either bad or mediocre (depending on which one we are talking about). Buff Rus bow, buff Horn bow, bufff Tatar bow and nerf fucking simple bows and ill stop crying. Now im basically crying over nothing, cus as i said i dont feel much of a difference in this game since the patch, except my 6 generations of looming are kinda meh, and all shit bows are better than good bows...
Im a dedicated horn bow archer since i started playing this game, and im crying a little bit. But my cries go mostly to the fact that bow "realism" is broken. Short bow, bow and long bow are the "best" bows in this game since the last patch. Just take a look at their stats. But in reality they are either bad or mediocre (depending on which one we are talking about). Buff Rus bow, buff Horn bow, bufff Tatar bow and nerf fucking simple bows and ill stop crying. Now im basically crying over nothing, cus as i said i dont feel much of a difference in this game since the patch, except my 6 generations of looming are kinda meh, and all shit bows are better than good bows...Well looking at the stats, bows like tatar and horn sacrifices dmg for missile speed, accuracy and draw speed. I don't really see the problem. Bow does 2 more damage then Horn Bow, but Horn got 2 more missile speed, 2 more accuracy and 2 more speed. If you're ready to sacrifice 2 more dmg you can use Tatar Bow and get 6 more draw speed and 2 missile speed. Also, bow got 2 slots, tatar, nomad and horn got 1.
[...]DIVERSITYStay away with your foul witchcraft!
Im a dedicated horn bow archer since i started playing this game, and im crying a little bit. But my cries go mostly to the fact that bow "realism" is broken. Short bow, bow and long bow are the "best" bows in this game since the last patch. Just take a look at their stats. But in reality they are either bad or mediocre (depending on which one we are talking about). Buff Rus bow, buff Horn bow, bufff Tatar bow and nerf fucking simple bows and ill stop crying. Now im basically crying over nothing, cus as i said i dont feel much of a difference in this game since the patch, except my 6 generations of looming are kinda meh, and all shit bows are better than good bows...
This patch makes an unnecessary buff for archers and makes it unballanced. Now even with a short bow you can kill everyone if you use a bodlins because you will deal 27 pierce dmg!!! and that's a dmg without bonus from PD.27 pierce damage is not much at all.
27 pierce damage is not much at all.
27 pierce damage is not much at all.I don't think so.
I don't think so.
I use archer dmg calc, 6 PD 160 wpf.
As first target i put my stats: 53 HP (18 str no IF) and 43 body armor.
Every single arrow will took me 21.8 or higher , so i'll die in 2-3 shots in body. With headshots with same head armor you kan kill someone with 1-2 arrows. Upkeep for short bow is 60 gold, for bodkins 354gold
And now funnier thing: we are going to shoot Templar_Bobby 24 STR 8If (75 hp) He have 67 body armor and 53 head armor.
With head shots he will die in 2-3 shots, in body 3-5 hits.
2224 gold upkeep (Bobby) vs Archer (2 quivers of bodkins, Short bow, rags and Stick for eg) < 1000 upkeep
IMO we can call that BULLSHIT.
Ok, last one question from me to devs:
Why arrows released frow wealker bows have higher missile speed?
IMO that have no logic in it. Dmg in flying thing irl depends it's speed and weigth.
If we shoot with same arrow kind (same weigth) there should be simple relation: missiles shooted from bow with higher dmg are flying faster.
But in here we have something different. Waekest bows have fastests missiles.
WHY?!
and why do archers play in rags?
I played on STF 18/21 archer now with mw rus and mw bodkin arrows, was good fun. Switched to my main and got raped by 3-5 HA and HX all the time, even with a shield.
See you when they revert this shit.
I don't think so.
I use archer dmg calc, 6 PD 160 wpf.
As first target i put my stats: 53 HP (18 str no IF) and 43 body armor.
Every single arrow will took me 21.8 or higher , so i'll die in 2-3 shots in body. With headshots with same head armor you kan kill someone with 1-2 arrows. Upkeep for short bow is 60 gold, for bodkins 354gold
And now funnier thing: we are going to shoot Templar_Bobby 24 STR 8If (75 hp) He have 67 body armor and 53 head armor.
With head shots he will die in 2-3 shots, in body 3-5 hits.
2224 gold upkeep (Bobby) vs Archer (2 quivers of bodkins, Short bow, rags and Stick for eg) < 1000 upkeep
IMO we can call that BULLSHIT.
Ok, last one question from me to devs:
Why arrows released frow wealker bows have higher missile speed?
IMO that have no logic in it. Dmg in flying thing irl depends it's speed and weigth.
If we shoot with same arrow kind (same weigth) there should be simple relation: missiles shooted from bow with higher dmg are flying faster.
But in here we have something different. Waekest bows have fastests missiles.
WHY?!
Afaik archers have increased break chance on their arrows which pretty much fucks up your whole upkeep argumentation.Didn't noticed that, i'm on stable level of gold and i earn a bit with almost most expensive gear for archers that is not reducing WPF
Yes, ingame one has to imagine(engine limitations) that the small, high shot speed bows use lighter arrows - thus the lower damage.But i can't imagine it in game, because all archers are using same arrows (choosen from few kinds)
Either implement a conquest battle mode, or simplify things and spawn MOTF 30 seconds into the round (so infantry can fight over an area, and try and take and hold it).This. I forget who I originally saw suggest this (I think it was Xeen), but making MoTF spawn early in the round would solve a lot of issues in battle. Some people run off into the corner and do nothing all round? Doesn't matter, the game ends without them needing to die. Bunch of people holed up in an easily defensible location? Again, doesn't matter, unless that location is actually on the flags. Some HA/HX kiting in a 1v15 situation? Doesn't matter, unless he's holding the flags.
Afaik archers have increased break chance on their arrows which pretty much fucks up your whole upkeep argumentation. For damage calc you didn't take in the cRPG hit zone multipliers which even puts a penalty on hitting the torso. Only head hits are very slightly buffed compared to Native, the rest is nerfed. I won't even start with talking about air friction and the resulting damage reduce over distances. Also get some IF.
Some "weaker" bows have higher shot speed than "stronger" bows to represent the difference between composite and (wooden) one material bows. Irl the latter have a rather low maximum spring speed of the wood, so giving them higher draw weight doesn't neccessarily make them shot the same (light) arrows faster but gives them the abilty to launch heavy war arrows. Yes, ingame one has to imagine(engine limitations) that the small, high shot speed bows use lighter arrows - thus the lower damage.