Archery after last patch

[Grumbs]

We welcome more guys, and have already some names in mind. I don't know if you will like it, because they are not your names.

Good to hear. I don't care who you get as long as there is a breadth of opinion, and people who won't shy away from getting their views heard in the current team. Sometimes you need people who aren't pussying around on the fence too. Have some ranged guys, some cav and some melee and represent the different classes rather than think you can get people who are totally down the line and safe.

Actually, he suggested those changes all by himself. Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant.

When the guys you are submitting changes to have publicly mentioned how they want to buff ranged your ideas of acceptable tweaks could be influenced, especially if you haven't made many tweaks yet.

[Templar_Steevee]

You do realize a new guy would not do as well as you mostly due to the fact that they are new?

Every new guy in this game will be killed by a veteran using even worse equipment than he.

They did this to make it more based on skill and stats rather than gear.  Now it is a little bit of both rather then just gear mattering.

So if they want that why we still have looms?

[En_Dotter]

More than 20, you say? Bodkins goes from 15 to 20 and is hands down the best arrows. You don't think people with need more than 15 arrows per round then? I've used more than my 34 mw bodkins in battles before, many times... You don't think that is a good buff? 2 slot bow, 1 slot weapon (langes messer, military sickle, mace etc.) and 20 bodkins is nothing to sneeze at.

...
I am talking about 2 quivers since most archers use bow, 2x quiver and melee... If you need more than 20 arrows in battle server then you either suck or u shoot randomly for the lolz. 2 quivers of bodkins (34 before the patch) were more than enough for me and i bet for most of proper archers. Now 40? Wtf do i need 40 for??? Only good for late waves of DTV. At least we now know that devs balance archery to DTV and not to some more popular modes...

[Joker86]

First of all: You know my old treadmill: conquest mode will fix those problems. Stat changes will not. (And yes, I suppose it will also have an impact on the amount of archers, since the levels of acting and reacting get shifted towards the favour of infantry, which on battle mode is like the idiot, trying to survive while running around in order to eventually participate in the battle)

I just want to say, that you have to grant archers also a certain base level of effectivity. This means, that you can't balance the amount of archers by nerfing them. While in the sum it could indeed make things even on the paper (as being shot twenty times for three damage each will also get you killed sooner or later), it is an incredibly shitty experience for the archer. An important part of good game design is the feel of having might and power, to change and influence things. Water can indeed carve out entire caves out of solid rock, but this doesn't mean a drop of water is particularly powerful.

So if for some weird reason I would be summoned into the balancing team, I wouldn't nerf archers either. I actually think they are still UP, same for cav. And I am a pure infantry player.

Lobby for a conquest mode, guys. It's half finished, anyway! It is far better than lobbying against each other, which will inevitably lead to someone losing fun due to a nerf.

[Necrorave]

So if they want that why we still have looms?

Now it is a little bit of both rather then just gear mattering.

[Lord_Kitazawa_of_Voodoo]

That's why there are shielders, to block arrows. Hide behind a shielder if you aren't one yourself. Realistically, a squad of archers would kill somebody without a shield, but the community cries BUFF 2H!

[Joker86]

Oh yes, yet another point:

Neither "get a shield" is a valid argument (as it's implying to change the class or build, which is not acceptable if the initial build is one which is meant to be valid, like pure 2hd/polearm for example), nor is "hide behind a shielder" (because to be in cover effectively you need teamspeak or fixed formations) or "stay in cover" (as you don't play the game while hiding behid cover), so please refrain from further usage of those arguments.

[En_Dotter]

Oh yes, yet another point:

Neither "get a shield" is a valid argument (as it's implying to change the class or build, which is not acceptable if the initial build is one which is meant to be valid, like pure 2hd/polearm for example), nor is "hide behind a shielder" (because to be in cover effectively you need teamspeak or fixed formations) or "stay in cover" (as you don't play the game while hiding behid cover), so please refrain from further usage of those arguments.

Oh, sorry, i forgot this isnt a team game. So basically we should all go solo and do what we think its best cus we are not using team speak together. Hmmm. How much IQ do u need to form a shield wall and and put 2h/poles behind/sideways and move as a group? Maybe a lot, but using simple [Q] "commands" can create that team spirit you speak of. Just have 2 ppl spamming commands and ppl start moving as a team, its that simple... I also thought [Q] menu was supposed to be used among ppl that are not in the same team speak (or not in team speak at all).
I wont say "take a shield" but i will say hide behind a shielder. Why have shielders if they dont provide cover? Ah right... selfish ppl take shields just to survive longer or something i guess. TEAM GAME FUCKING HELL... Use brains or listen to someone who actually uses it...
You want to be part of balance crew and u say "hide behind a shielder" is not good... My god...

[Joker86]

Oh, sorry, i forgot this isnt a team game. So basically we should all go solo and do what we think its best cus we are not using team speak together. Hmmm. How much IQ do u need to form a shield wall and and put 2h/poles behind/sideways and move as a group? Maybe a lot, but using simple [Q] "commands" can create that team spirit you speak of. Just have 2 ppl spamming commands and ppl start moving as a team, its that simple... I also thought [Q] menu was supposed to be used among ppl that are not in the same team speak (or not in team speak at all).
I wont say "take a shield" but i will say hide behind a shielder. Why have shielders if they dont provide cover? Ah right... selfish ppl take shields just to survive longer or something i guess. TEAM GAME FUCKING HELL... Use brains or listen to someone who actually uses it...
You want to be part of balance crew and u say "hide behind a shielder" is not good... My god...

You are right, with a bit of good will (which the community does not have, to be honest), we could achieve this.

But you forgot to tell me about that coordination archers have to keep up with their teammates, which has to be of the same extend like moving in a closed formation, as things have to stay fair for all classes. And it wouldn't be fair if one class needs an unproportionally higher amount of teamwork than another one, to deal with the same number of enemies. Else you couldn't expect that amount of teamplay from that one class, could you?

P.S.: Even if the life of my mother would depend on it, I wouldn't want to be part of the balancing team 

[Gurnisson]

If you need more than 20 arrows in battle server then you either suck or u shoot randomly for the lolz.

Some guys are not bad enough to get killed before they can use most of their arrows..

[Bronto]

Oh, sorry, i forgot this isnt a team game. So basically we should all go solo and do what we think its best cus we are not using team speak together. Hmmm. How much IQ do u need to form a shield wall and and put 2h/poles behind/sideways and move as a group? Maybe a lot, but using simple [Q] "commands" can create that team spirit you speak of. Just have 2 ppl spamming commands and ppl start moving as a team, its that simple... I also thought [Q] menu was supposed to be used among ppl that are not in the same team speak (or not in team speak at all).
I wont say "take a shield" but i will say hide behind a shielder. Why have shielders if they dont provide cover? Ah right... selfish ppl take shields just to survive longer or something i guess. TEAM GAME FUCKING HELL... Use brains or listen to someone who actually uses it...
You want to be part of balance crew and u say "hide behind a shielder" is not good... My god...

The thing that baffles me the most about most of these complaints in regards to teamwork is that it's really not that hard to do if you find the right people and know what to look for. On my archer alt I simply look for other archers and group up with them. Three archers shooting at a tin can means you'll probably survive and the tin can will probably lose if you can all aim well. Right now I have an infantry character and I just stick with my clan mates or people I've played alongside before and my survivability is greater than if I go at it alone. You don't need TS for these things just awareness (although TS helps). Also, learn how to fight in a group, don't rotate in a circle around your enemies if your "friends" (teammates) are with you. It's really quite simple that guy in front of you can't block two directions at once, so if you're smart someone's going to land a hit. Same thing with archers grouping up, just look for ranged and stick together. 2handed heroes aren't going to hang back and protect you if they aren't your friends and even if they are your friend they still probably won't! There are almost always people playing like this on a server, even if it's just three people, stay with them and see what you'll learn.

[Thomek]

Elegantly jumping over Joker, and back on track:

I understand the rage of Stevee,

Archery was perceived to be practically useless unless you had mw bow and arrows and high levels too. A few die-hards had carved out their characters through countless hours, found the perfect builds etc..

Then the devs buff archery so any rabble from the street can be as good as them!! And who knows, maybe they are not even half bad those unloomed newbie Archers!

So for some archer vets, the floor fell out below them and the party was crashed by a bunch of noobs.. For everyone else this patch is a chance to actually play a decent archer! (impossible earlier, without huge time investment)

Give it some time, if the situation doesn't get better, nerf the hell out of them.

[[Ant]]

I imagine that what you are seeing is all the ranged alternate characters that have been unplayable for 18 months being used again.


As melee I have noticed no difference at all, as cav a little.
 
I like this patch
-It is now possible to run a melee/archer hybrid.  (Archer char from dec 2010 is useable)
-It is now possible to kill with a low tier bow
-Bodkins are not the only arrow worth using
-More new player archers which are easier to dodge and back slash

[Tennenoth]

I've read through the thread and thought it time to throw in my views, whether you like it or not! Personally, I dislike this patch, but that can be explained away through the fact that there are now more archers who are better than me.

As some people have started to say in the later pages, the barrier to entry to be "good" with archery has been reduced by the increase in missile speed whereby, as mentioned by multiple people, makes it easier to hit their targets lessening the amount of "lead" needed and allowing for much straighter shots over a greater distance.

That is the only thing that I see from this change, the barrier to entry is reduced and more people pick up a bow, as is only natural, also, at this point we've got people testing the patch, which always happens and skews the views for people, including myself.

The damage added to bows over heirloomed bows - makes little difference to me but for the more casual players, makes things more worthwhile. They are still not as accurate nor have the same missile speed (2 increase for example from +0 to +2 on the longbow is quite useful!) as the ones who put in the time but they're still viable (as they were before to be honest, but more so now)

As for the increase in the number of arrows per quiver - you've broken my mental count & increased the number of things I have to avoid, I disagree with anyone saying that 1 stack of 17 arrows is not enough!

So to end my opinion really, I don't like what has changed and to make a final judgement I need things to die down but I think I understand the reasoning behind it and fully support that. I feel that the change to basic bows & heirloomed bows with regards to the damage is unnecessary & merely increasing the missile speed of the lower power bows would allow for a lowered barrier to entry and making the whole environment to be less hostile.

Anyway, as I say, opinions but I shall sit out from playing until things calm down back to an equilibrium, I can't handle it at the best of times.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

At any rate, when you have even ranged guys wondering why they were buffed and you look at the server population you have to wonder if you made the right changes.

I repeat the ONLY ranged players crying are the ones with 3+ rus/longbows and 3+ arrows who aren't miles above regular ranged anymore.