Longbow guy complaining about HX? HX are more like pests than full on threats like archers
Yeh horse xbows often take 1/2 hp from me with 60 body armour. With just a body shot. That plus their accuracy and their maneuverability makes them a ridiculous class. I would frankly remove them.
IMO they should stay in c-rpg, bacause it gives some more colors to that game, but they are too strong ATM and I'm telling that as a 2h, not an archer.increase xbow reload speed on horse ... like x2 or x3 from what its now ...
It's just silly that they can reload their x-bow on horseback without using any mechanism.
I am not one to complain to change something but I feel this would make sense to give Horse-Crossbowmen and Horse-Archers major differences. (Plus, we all know a HX on any kind of armored horse is just silly)
Do not touch Horse Archer as it is.
Instead..
Since there are two stages to cav when it comes to speed. I will call these stages "Steady speed" (Slower) and "Couching speed" (Faster)
The difference is not only the ability to couch at the faster speed, but also the animation of your character's stance changes.
I believe that Horse-Crossbowmen should not be able to reload during Couching Speed. If you wish to add something to compensate, fair enough. I really believe that this would help though when it comes to balancing the difference between HA and HX. HX obviously has more damage and the ability to hold shots for extended time, and a fairly quick reload to go with it. I think the need to slow down will give rangers on foot and other cav chances to take advantage of a weakspot. Let's face it, other then the small reload time a HX does not have a weakness (Unless you spawn without a melee but thats besides the point I am trying to make) While HA does has rapid fire, it lacks damage without speed bonus and is mostly used to support and harass.
This is just my idea, I have nothing against these classes (I have no room to strongly feel for one side or the other mostly because I have never tried these classes.)
This is just me making an observation and creating a solution.
Let me know what you think.
Increase reload speed or remove added speed bonus from horse.sorry for similar repost, but...
Increase reload speed or remove added speed bonus from horse.Gurni is the best HX in the world. I'd vote for removing or lowering (if it's possible) the speed bonus from a horseback for projectiles. I hope you can separate somehow arrow and bolt speed bonus, else we would hurt those little, cute HAs.
... like : run-bye one-shotting on a curser
I'm not whining about getting shot. When i choose a non shield class i agreed with that i'm gonna get shot preety often. Problem is a dmg i get from tiny weapon wich cost almost nothing.
Are you complaining about light crossbow as a weapon now? You said HX and that implies it has to be a horse involved as well, making it way more expensive than a longbowI counted upkeep of equipment that Abbar was using (i counted Desert Horse also) and it's a bit lower than my upkeep on Steevee (2,122 gold) difference is about 300 gold. I'm not complaining about that tiny x-bow, but about class. IMO all ranged (i'm not telling about throwers), are preety ballanced, except HX (they are just OP)
Use light crossbow for HX, more dmg.I'm talking about it all the time
Hunting crossbow's dmg from horseback is just rly big. That's what topic is about.
He's just saying that HXs deal bigger dmg than HAs. They can also 1-shot you in the head even though you can survive MW Bodkin from MW longbow. I have both less hp and head armour than steevee on his alt and I survive ROBINHOOD's HS from ~15 meters.
xbow's dmg from horseback is just rly big. That's what topic is about.
i mean light x-bow all the time
Well some people are confusedYeah my fault, I corrected it. Was out of crpg for month and a half and I mixed something with crossbows. Sorry
I agree, how armor works is pretty much fucked up.
7. Because choice of the horse is usually arabian, the thing is so fast and maneuverable that by the time you draw your bow, HX will already be outside the valid range. And even when it is in range, it is too damn hard kill it cause it takes MW Long bow 3-4 MW Barbed arrows to put +3 Arabian down.
You can't one shot Arabian(not sure if it is +3) even with MW Throwing Lance. Even body shot wont bring it down with MW Throwing lance, just ask Bloody_Hate.
I stand by my claim that it takes minimum of 3 MW Barbed arrows to body from MW Long bow to bring down +3 arabian horse.
I don't care about delaying.Remember that PD increases the missile speed too. I don't remember exactly how much, but try a PD 1 bow with 1 PD and with 6 and you'll see the difference. Same goes for PT and throwing weapons.
I also noticed a funny thing:
Missile speed on strongest +3 bow is 42 (you need 18 str and additional 6PD for it) and regular ligth x-bow missile speed is 44?! For light x-bow you have to get awesome 7 STR.
Bullshit IMO
increase xbow reload speed on horse ... like x2 or x3 from what its now ...
60% of my hp with a bodyshot by a horse crossbow. I was wearing 79 body armour, that is the maximum body armour in the gamei must of heard you say this like 5 times in teamspeak these last few days xD and now 1 in writing, marvelous! :D +1
Speed bonus makes it vary a lot, but most of the time it goes down quickly.
@Kulin&Gurni:For throwing, yes. But my impression in any of these horse ranged related threads is that people overestimate the effects of speed bonus when talking horse archery or crossbowery. Here's why:
Remember speed bonus is a massive factor. I could 1hit arabians with 5pt and franciscas on my 1h/ht when we both rode straight at each other (I was testing it), but I could also need up to 8-9 of them if I was standing still and he was riding away.
just make it so that horse xbow has to stand still to reloadand what is he supposed to do when chased by a cav mob ? :idea:
problem solve
and what is he supposed to do when chased by a cav mob ? :idea:
The speed bonus from a moving horse only has a minor impact on the damage you deal. The varying speed of a horse is simply not that significant compared to the speed of a bolt or arrow. From the looks of it, this is true ingame as well as reality. Different case with throwing, which probably moves at like half or a third of the speed of a bolt and arrow, and therefore the varying speed of a horse is a lot more significant.FYI, we are talking about damage done to the horse moving towards where the projectile is coming from.
tl;dr:
You are not going to do twice the damage because you ride towards a person, a quarter or a third increase is about the best you could hope for.
FYI, we are talking about damage done to the horse moving towards where the projectile is coming from.Exactly the same thing lol
I only stated the difference in missile speed because I don't know how that carries over to damage. It is possible that 20% more missile speed means 25% more damage, but the differences you imply here, I call bullshit on that. If speed bonus really had such an effect then horse throwing would be fucking amazing. What you are seeing is a difference in builds and the random damage fudge factor I guess, no way you can attribute such differences to speed bonus for bolts and arrows.(click to show/hide)
Well, something like a "hotfix" I could suggest here is the following thing. Keep in mind that I am not happy with that solution at all, as it poses a nerf, but until something else is done by the developers (e.g. implementing conquest mode) it's the easiest way to fix things.As this is ever going to happen. :lol:
Step one: make all crossbows unable to use on horseback.
Step two: create two (or how many you like) new crossbows with the same models of the hunting crossbow, the light crossbow, etc.
Step three: keep their stats (including upkeep) the same like for their old counterpart, but remove the "can't use on horseback"-tag again
Step four: lower reloading speed, accuracy, damage or whatever you like. If you want, lower upkeep a bit, but take care the new upkeep is not low enough to justify the use of those crossbows for infantry.
Step five: call them "cavalry crossbows" or something like that.
Step six: grant all horse crossbowmen a free respec and all owners of heirloomed light and hunting crossbows a free heirloom point reset for their weapons, as we want to stay fair, don't we?
With good speed bonus on my HA I can 1shot STR tincans too. Worse accuracy, though.I am really surpised you can do that, most times i try shooting people with armor above a certain weight, arrows bounces 50% of the time or do no dmg (fully loomed gear btw).
As this is ever going to happen. :lol:
Imo either reduce speed bonus for HX, dmg or accuracy, but not all at once like you did with HA (which made the class utterly useless)
Just two short questions:
Why footmen-rangers dont shoot mounted crossbowmen? At least the (unarmored) horse should be easy to hit.
Why melee horsemen dont hunt down crossbowmen on a plated horse?
Why shouldn't that happen? It's the easiest way and requires the least programming work, in difference to all the other, more "dynamic" ideas (like seperate speed bonus calculation for HXs and whatnot). Keep in mind the devs are occupied with M:BG, and cRPG will most likely never see any major update again.It woulnt happen because this is crpg, every thing done to fix a class was to nerfs its stats. After thinking about it, even asking for a change in speed bonus for HX would be to much. I dont think the fact that devs are busy with M:BG would change anything of this. Crpg has been about nerfing and buffing class in the most simple ways , i dont think this will change anytime soon.
Exactly the same thing lolHorse throwing can do amazing amount of damage. Ask zlisch how many survives a charge+lance in the chest. The reason you don't see many of them is that both HA and HC is much more accurate while carrying a lot more ammo.
I only stated the difference in missile speed because I don't know how that carries over to damage. It is possible that 20% more missile speed means 25% more damage, but the differences you imply here, I call bullshit on that. If speed bonus really had such an effect then horse throwing would be fucking amazing. What you are seeing is a difference in builds and the random damage fudge factor I guess, no way you can attribute such differences to speed bonus for bolts and arrows.
I am really surpised you can do that, most times i try shooting people with armor above a certain weight, arrows bounces 50% of the time or do no dmg (fully loomed gear btw).On headshots, 6 pd and bodkins, yes. Doesn't happen all the time but on a straight charge I can get great damage. Using a +3 Bow, btw, since the lower missile speed gives you a better speed bonus. The extra damage from the speed bonus + the 2.1x damage from headshots all buffing the damage BEFORE armour counts = shitloads of damage.
Exactly the same thing lol
I only stated the difference in missile speed because I don't know how that carries over to damage. It is possible that 20% more missile speed means 25% more damage, but the differences you imply here, I call bullshit on that. If speed bonus really had such an effect then horse throwing would be fucking amazing. What you are seeing is a difference in builds and the random damage fudge factor I guess, no way you can attribute such differences to speed bonus for bolts and arrows.
Just two short questions:
Why footmen-rangers dont shoot mounted crossbowmen? At least the (unarmored) horse should be easy to hit.
Why melee horsemen dont hunt down crossbowmen on a plated horse?
(click to show/hide)
On or off horseback ..
Crossbowing in crpg have always been way too viable compared to other forms of fighting.
(upkeep,looming,accuracy,restrictions on armor,dmg,skillpoints,playstyle,slots)
All the small things sum up to a big advantage.
It has been blatantly obvious to anyone willing to look for the past years.
Unfortunatly some of the unbalancers had a crossbowfetish.
The pope did not ban them for nothing, they were OP in real life too back then.
So it is realism , but this is a game....
I am pretty sure, that if crossbows were REMOVED from crpg.
EVERYONE would have a better time.
I gave up the anticrossbowcrusade long time ago, maybe someone more naive than me can take over? :D
(click to show/hide)
The amount of times I've been pissoed off by archers: 13 946 :DIs that your death count? :)
Well, something like a "hotfix" I could suggest here is the following thing. Keep in mind that I am not happy with that solution at all, as it poses a nerf, but until something else is done by the developers (e.g. implementing conquest mode) it's the easiest way to fix things.
Fucking christ QQ'ers, nothing has been so overpowered in the last 2 years that it required a nerf. Nothing.
i gonna have to agree here with you, since buffnerfnerfbuffbuffnerfnerffQQ has nothing to do with really ballancing anything.
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This is for 95% of you in this thread (regardless of how long you've been playing):
Why do we have to have this horse xbow thread every week? It's just as bad as it was for the archery threads a few months ago. I can't say that your tactic is wrong, I'm sure the devs will now be nerfing horse xbows, I just think that your position is wrong. Nothing is overpowered in the game, horse xbows have their place on the battlefield just like anyone else. If you're getting owned by a horse xbow, then you need to change what you're doing, not expecting the other guy to have to change because of your stupidity or ignorance (or lack of team play).
Fucking christ QQ'ers, nothing has been so overpowered in the last 2 years that it required a nerf. Nothing.
Just buff HA. Make longbow usable from horseback. Problem?
Yes. Upkeep. Lower it for bows and arrows.
Also, to the ones that always complain about HX not dismounting as last person on a team. I've been promised duels with a shitty nomad sabre, 0 ath and 0 ps so many times only to be ganked the moment I step down from my horses. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. It's the community's fault I run around on my horse as the last guy.because no one like you
because no one like you
even your teammates
Horse throwing can do amazing amount of damage. Ask zlisch how many survives a charge+lance in the chest. The reason you don't see many of them is that both HA and HC is much more accurate while carrying a lot more ammo.I'll answer with how many dies instead, 50-60% of all light armored people (horsecrossbowmen, light infantry, my old friendchers, ha, etc), and people who are already wounded, this is when I'm riding towards them and they're standing still, around the same amount who'll survive me shooting them with an arb with the horseranged damage penalty if we're both standing still. also Gurnisson, it's funny how you talk about your arabian never surviving any ranged hits yet ride around with two throwing lances in your horse, thrown while you were riding towards me.
i would like HA to have its own domain back and not having HX on the field as the "better HA" ...
also Gurnisson, it's funny how you talk about your arabian never surviving any ranged hits yet ride around with two throwing lances in your horse, thrown while you were riding towards me.
Fair enough, how much have you played with an arabian? I've played 1h cav, lance cav, hx and ha with both loomed and non-loomed arabian to back up my statements. It's rare that it survives 2-3 projectiles, although it can happen. Usually it dies after the second. My arabian got one-shot by a friendly longbowman today, but it also survived 2 throwing lances to the ass one time, running at max speed away (1hp left). Speed bonus makes it vary a lot, but most of the time it goes down quickly.
Said the longsword spammer! :lol:
Also, to the ones that always complain about HX not dismounting as last person on a team. I've been promised duels with a shitty nomad sabre, 0 ath and 0 ps so many times only to be ganked the moment I step down from my horses.Gurnisson you are expecting fair duels after playng totally gay whole round?
Gurnisson you are expecting fair duels after playng totally gay whole round?
I don't care if damage taken when riding forward is reduced as long as damage taken when running away is increased.
Good lying man. W-key hero away from you with your lances in my ass, and like I said, the damage varies a lot because of the speed bonus. And I already said previously that my arabian survived your two throwing lances (which was from horseback and riding full speed away making it deal piss poor damage compared to normal)You weren't riding away from me, one of them might have been in the leg though, I've played HT long enough to not even bother shooting if that's the case, which due to HX being the fastest cavalry around, makes their longer reloading time not matter much against other cavalry. My old 3+ arabian also took 2-3 lances thrown from the ground to kill it while standing still at facehug range, 2 if they were body shots, 3 if one of the initial 2 were leg shots.
HX would be ok, if they couldn't exploit the speed bonus any harder than HA. Right now they can gain up to ten times the damage with speed bonus and they don't lose a bit of accuracy. That's what needs to be nerfed.
History is unreasonable? Took me 5 minutes to find a page from an old combat manual dating to 1467 for dealing with HX.HX has no resonable medival role attached to ... it has same medival immersion factor as motorcycle riding(click to show/hide)
History is unreasonable? Took me 5 minutes to find a page old combat manual dating to 1467 for dealing with HX.i was more refering to the role-image, the identification image of the class(click to show/hide)
The trick is to get us in a headlock:(click to show/hide)
Seriously though, hang around friendly archers/xbow/throwers and you'll notice HX don't pester you as much. I know for a fact, one person in this thread complaining is just a bad melee cav who always tries to engage me alone.
History is unreasonable? Took me 5 minutes to find a page from an old combat manual dating to 1467 for dealing with HX.(click to show/hide)
The trick is to get us in a headlock:(click to show/hide)
Seriously though, hang around friendly archers/xbow/throwers and you'll notice HX don't pester you as much. I know for a fact, one person in this thread complaining is just a bad melee cav who always tries to engage me alone.