I am a 2h and I don't agree because I am a 2h...
Oh, a shielder/hoplite wants to nerf 2hs and buff shields and hoplites, how odd.
Remove "magnetic"/"force field" shielding affect
Oh, a shielder/hoplite wants to nerf 2hs and buff shields and hoplites, how odd.
I don't agree...
1. cRPG won't ever become realistic, even less so your version of realistic.
2. Do you know how much QQ would come from range buff?
3. Just leave melee alone I'd say... I think they balance each other out well enough.
4. Magnetic shield... if we remove it I bet people would QQ as well.
I think he has some interesting ideas and maybe even some new aspects to look into. I don't believe the game should revolve around who cries more and who does't as you're wanting it to be.
- The "magnetic shield" thing in my opinion doesn't need to be messed with... I still believe you have to cover your head to protect against head shots.
Oh really Whoreborn?[/list](click to show/hide)
Not sure... but that doesn't seem like a buff?
Add overhand thrust to spear and shield
Reduce general 2h weapon speeds by about 2-3 speed
Eliminate 2h thrust exploit
Increase half-swording damage and speed by about 3-5 and switch to 2h weapon proficiency
Increase archery and crossbow damage significantly
Eliminate shield clipping
Remove "magnetic"/"force field" shielding affect
Add overhand thrust to spear and shield
Change overhand swing on 2 directional polearms (excepting awlpikes and halberds) to overhand thrust (animations in Fire&Sword
Side note: I highly doubt the cRPG devs would be allowed to use the fire&sword animations without being sued.
2h is currently the strongest melee and that's exactly what they should be. 1H gets the HUGE advantage of shields, polearms have a HUGE selection of weapons, meaning they can be cav, support melee or even primary melee without suffering any serious disadvantages. 2H in return deserves to be the most powerfull primary melee.
What do u play as atm? plz tell the truth.
If you still don't believe 2h is unbalanced, do a little survey of players. 60% of players are 2hers at the least, wonder why?Try looking on the servers, of the people who actually plays. If u havent read the forum recently, its quite dominated by cav and ranged. If u still dont trust me, try looking in the general discussion. There was made 2 threads about ranged, and that was just recently.
Eliminate 2h thrust exploit (aka lolstab)
If the devs heed anything on here I hope it's this. It's a broken mechanic that is simply absurd. If it has happened to you then you already are nodding. If you use it, then shame on you. For any reading who don't know what I'm talking about, its something like this. You are fighting some guy in a duel. He has a big long great sword, so you get in up close. You are just about to start dicing when he points his sword down. His sword is literally inside of your character, who cares, if he thrusts he will obviously glance\whiff right? Nope, you take the full impact of the pierce damage. Sucks to duel a 2her eh? That or the 2h thrust which goes way over the left side of your shoulder, miss? No, it someone curves right back in and now you are black barred at the least from taking a 2h thrust "to the face".
Increase half-swording damage and speed by about 3-5 and switch to 2h weapon proficiency
As a practitioner of Historical European Martial Arts and someone with some common sense, half-swording as Talhoffer called it shouldn't be that pathetic. It should be somewhat slower yes and the cut reduced but not THAT much. Also, and perhaps more importantly, knights were trained to use their weapon in every aspect. If they encountered a heavily armoured opponent, it only made sense to use half swording techniques to punch through that armour or disarm him. To do this, he didn't have to use a completely foreign method of fighting (switch to a different proficiency), this was something he would have trained for and would be quite natural. Edit: Just an idea, rather than have an inferior yet identical right to left swing in halfswording, reverse the entire position of the sword, holding the blade while using the hilt and pommel as a blunt weapon, not sure if it's possible, just an idea.
Increase archery and crossbow damage significantlyMore damage for archers?
Let's face it, when that steel quarrel (crossbow bolt) comes smashing through your cuirass, tearing through the layers of mail and leather, and sinks its way into your chest, probably destroying any number of vital organs, you should be dead, and not walking on thinking about how much you hate Desire, who spent 5 or more seconds to load that thing and generations to master the skill of aiming it. As big as that number is, it's obsolete when you compare it to the combination of power draw and bows (which have a much greater rate of fire) and the godawful 7 power throw throwing spears which can actually do more damage than the arbalest. Yeah. Regarding bows, while not quite as absurd as the crossbows, admit it doesn't make sense to see some strength crutching 2her stroll by with 5 arrows sticking out of him, and he's still at half health. Increasing archery damage would be more realistic, and, what do ya know, balance the game by curbing the big picture effectiveness of 2hers.
But archers? You want more realistic 2h animation - which i like, but you also need to fix stab of pikes, not only greatswords - but you want Archers to do more damage again tincans. If you arent using a longbow but yumi/warbow/hornbow your arrows shouldnt even scratch a tincan, they simply dont have the power to penetrate a plated armor. A lucky headshot in the visor may penetrate it, but if you want to make the game more realistic the only bow to do damage on full plate equip (like milanese) should be the longbow.
As far as the whole "2hander deserves to be the strongest melee unit" argument goes...well, I kinda have to agree. We are absolutely powerless against any and all ranged, having only footwork and the surroundings to save us (or a helpful ally). However, unless you group in polearms who use poleaxes and such into your definition of a 2hander, then I must say...polearms have the same strengths as a 2hander, but no one complains about them. MAYBE No maybe, they are, if you don't believe me I can make a demonstration video with my longsword. most 2hands swing faster and are unrealistic. But if that is the case how hard do you think it would be to swing something that weighs 2-3 times as much, with all the mass concentrated on the far end? 1st, wood weighs less than steel, 2nd polearms have a MUCH more spaced grip, and thereby more leverage, whereas with a 2h you are holding the sword at the very end and thereby are at a mechanical disadvantage, in the real world at least. If 2handers would become realistic, polearms would be near useless. No A normal poleaxe would have to be swung at the speed of the great long maul, if not slower. LoL No, have you ever wielded a poleaxe of any kind? Not to mention polearms get more variety, as well as viable secondary modes. In most cases the secondary (usually blunt) is of such an inferior damage that it would be only worth it if you were desperate for a knock down or up against an extreme tincan. That and the speed reduction, which I'm not sure I understand at all
As far as buffing archery, I will just say that shooting around a shield is enough of a buff, and should be implemented to some degree. If the shielder cannot rotate and position his shield properly to face the archer or cover his head and such, then it would be rather unfair and archers would get pretty easy headshots. You have to remember that us 2handers with no defenses can still easily get picked apart by even the weakest of archers since all they have to do is shoot us, turn, run, hop, shoot us, rinse and repeat. Happens all the time and we are defenseless. Increasing their strength would of course be more realistic, but suck... a lot. Well without a shield you actually can dodge, having played archery, I practically gave up whenever a targeted 2her started spinning and stuff. It's a lot harder than you think. You can also wear more armour without being as encumbered as a shielder, note the very high weight on shields. If you want that superiority in melee, you have to pay for it somewhere
And in regards to allowing for overhead stabs.... yes. it should happen. Happened in real life, and is a cool mechanic that would make the class much more viable. However, my only gripe would be that they would become twice as strong. Sure, it isn't THAT hard to charge someone who outreaches you and block up and down, however I have already seen an increase in the numbers of pikesmen recently, playing support all too well. All it takes is maybe 3 pikemen in line with infantry to scare off the opposing team. Why? Well, cav wouldn't go near, and the opposing infantry wouldn't either. There is nothing more annoying that fighting someone, only to be stabbed by 3 different guys who you didn't even see since their range is so great.Welcome to fighting against teamwork If they could attack in two directions, then they would not only be pure support, but also an incredibly ranged fighter. Sure, in a 1 v 1 maybe the guy with a 2hander or poleaxe or 1hander could close the gap (assuming they can block well) and win. But in a mob, or 2 pikes v 1 infantry, the pikes will have a significant advantage of range. It is hard enough closing the distance on a skilled pikemen as it is... with the spin-jump exploit and all... it would be a nightmare if they had two modes of attack. But once again, it should be implemented, I just fear there may be balancing issues following. (of course a shielder may be able to still destroy an enemy pike by easily closing the gap... but since shielders move slower, and if that pikeman had a decent amount of athletics...)
Summary / tl;dr: If 2handers are to be nerfed, so must all similar classes i.e. the infamous glaive or polearm users. Personally, i found the glaive to be easier to use than any 2handed greatswords simply because the range was about the same, but it didn't ever glance, it was faster, It's not statistically faster, it's range creates that affect though had the same power if not more, and also has stopping power against horses (while you have to be really really good with a 2hander to even attempt standing up to a charging cavNot my esperience, as a 2her fighting oncoming cavalry was one of my favourite things to do as the class. *half-swording buff could help here*). No it shouldn't, half swording decreases range and would not be a realistic anti cav. Halfswording is for close quarters or against heavy armourShielders and pikes should be changed to add more variety to the game.
Great ideas!
I think the forcefield on shields should be reduced (maybe halved?) but not eliminated though.
As far as the whole "2hander deserves to be the strongest melee unit" argument goes...well, I kinda have to agree. We are absolutely powerless against any and all ranged, having only footwork and the surroundings to save us (or a helpful ally). However, unless you group in polearms who use poleaxes and such into your definition of a 2hander, then I must say...polearms have the same strengths as a 2hander, but no one complains about them. MAYBE most 2hands swing faster and are unrealistic. But if that is the case how hard do you think it would be to swing something that weighs 2-3 times as much, with all the mass concentrated on the far end? If 2handers would become realistic, polearms would be near useless. A normal poleaxe would have to be swung at the speed of the great long maul, if not slower. Not to mention polearms get more variety, as well as viable secondary modes.
As for the "2handers MUST be the supreme melee class" err, I have to disagree. someone who is a pure two hander should not be way better then someone who is a pure 1hander or polearm, each class should have an advantage and disadvantage
E.G the two hander might be the faster one the 1hander has a shield and the polearm more reach. It should not be the two hander does the most damage has the lolstab and is the fastest. If two handers must be the "supreme" melee class then gratz on proving that playing two hander means playing easymode. :)
You must be very bad at the game, all you need to do is stab and the chances are you stabbed faster then him out ranged him stabbed through the horse damaging it and him plus cancelling his attack and all you suffer is a bump. 2handers can stand up to cav... atleast any two hander with half a brain can fight cav and win.
As for the "2handers MUST be the supreme melee class" err, I have to disagree. someone who is a pure two hander should not be way better then someone who is a pure 1hander or polearm, each class should have an advantage and disadvantage
E.G the two hander might be the faster one the 1hander has a shield and the polearm more reach. It should not be the two hander does the most damage and is the fastest.
Only reason there are a lot of cav and ranged right now is mostly because the "team balance" is awful and tends to stack cav and ranged on to either the same team or ranged on one and cav on the other. Fixing the balance should even out the amount of ranged and cav imo. But thats for another topic :)Funny how the cav and ranged team is fine with that, while the infantry is not rly enjoying it. According to what u say, 2h is superior in every way, yet they are getting their asses kicked. Im sry, but it doesnt seem to add up sir.
1h(click to show/hide)
2h(click to show/hide)
Polearm(click to show/hide)
I have played as all of these classes with many different weapons and different builds, and have had fun with them and was effective with all of them. cRPG is very balanced right now. Just because you see "cav and ranged" dominating right now doesn't mean anything needs a balance or buff. It's a common trend to have one class dominating the servers. It could be Polearms next week for all we know. There is only a few problems we need to fix, such as the force field of shields and other minor things.
There I'm done ranting :)
GTX just as a heads up from after this post I wont reply to you because well.... You try and work it out. and happy new year coward :)
U didnt understand much of what they typed earlier, did u? This was all explained earlier. Did u not read it, or did u just ignore it/not understand it?.
Since when is a 2h faster than a 1h? People like kinngrimm depends 100% on just being too quick for people to block, since he does NOTHING fancy at all. He just feints 1-2 times and hits u, maybe he spams a few left swings. I dont seem to recall any 2h being able to do that.Funny how the cav and ranged team is fine with that, while the infantry is not rly enjoying it. According to what u say, 2h is superior in every way, yet they are getting their asses kicked. Im sry, but it doesnt seem to add up sir.
GTX, your sloppy typos, text talk, bad diction, and terrible sentence structure make it very hard to discern what you are trying to say, but what I did gather is that you do not have enough reason, knowledge, or experience to be making a valid argument on this topic. Think on it more before you type.
This is biggest bunch of crap and QQ i ever read in one thread.
Happy new year !
Also if all of this is implemented I instaquit. Projectiles are much too effective against heavy armored infantry already, shield or not, and the shield forcefield is needed for shields to be anywhere close to useful. Otherwise you are simply better without one, allowing you to use longer, faster and more damaging weapons as well as moving way faster.
Also this is stupid but if the vertical shield forcefield was to be removed, it would be impossible to protect your feet. With all the camera movement you like, you just can't cover your feet because the shield, rather than being held lower, will only be tilted.
The warband engine will never be realistic enough for these changes to actually work balance wise. And anyway, realism and fun don't go in the same direction.
Also don't listen to GTX when comparing anything to 2h. He is biaised like hell.
U are biased against me.
Also a little warning, u made a little typo, be careful he does not come after u.
So you want to nerf shields just beacuse of one guy makelele?
Seems legit.
So I've been playing cRPG for a while (currently lvl 31 8th gen, a 2nd gen alt and a 3rd gen alt) and it has to be my favourite multiplayer mod. Big surprise. I'd like to address some elements in it's current state that I would like addressed. Whether the dev team has any interest in this or not, I hope it will at least give insight to interested players.
So here's what I have to say.
here is what i have to say, dont take it personal :) i still want you to finish the final boss heirloom pack :P
im going to focus on REALISM as, in my opinion there are alot of things that arent yet realistic. some weapons might be nerfed/buffed if they are being made realistic according to my opinion, but i think their should be a way to buff/nerf the weapons again so they are balanced again.
Reduce general 2h weapon speeds by about 2-3 speed
I actually practice longsword\greatsword techniques and I can tell you, you can't swing them THAT fast. I spent several generations as a 2h. With am 18\21 2h build I could spam even the flamberge like it was a toothpick. An extremely high damage toothpick. I know what it's like to be 2h. I had lots of fun with it, but it has gotten to a point where it is unrealistic and unfair to people playing other classes. Don't believe me? Try playing a gen as a shielder or even polearm. It's not near as easy. But maybe you're just one of those players who is pro at everything? Well at least look at recent "game balances". Polestun removed. Archery nerfed. Shielders kick like grandma, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when was the last time 2h got nerfed? A while back I thought some 2h weapons got a damage boost. Oh joy... If you still don't believe 2h is unbalanced, do a little survey of players. 60% of players are 2hers at the least, wonder why?
2H needs a nerf indeed, or some other classes need a buff (like my idea of adding the increasing difficulty to block more than 1 incoming stab from any weapon. i would gladly give the permission to make the pike not able to block if this is added. although i want to see it tested on 1 single kind of pike first, to see how it works.
Eliminate 2h thrust exploit (aka lolstab)
If the devs heed anything on here I hope it's this. It's a broken mechanic that is simply absurd. If it has happened to you then you already are nodding. If you use it, then shame on you. For any reading who don't know what I'm talking about, its something like this. You are fighting some guy in a duel. He has a big long great sword, so you get in up close. You are just about to start dicing when he points his sword down. His sword is literally inside of your character, who cares, if he thrusts he will obviously glance\whiff right? Nope, you take the full impact of the pierce damage. Sucks to duel a 2her eh? That or the 2h thrust which goes way over the left side of your shoulder, miss? No, it someone curves right back in and now you are black barred at the least from taking a 2h thrust "to the face".
true, same as the maul that seems to going to be totally missing you but than curves and right before it hits the ground, it hits you toe. however as it was a overhead this counts as if it would hit you head with full forse, meaning to certain dead. however, the curvestabbing is something that i have to use very often as piker, their just isnt another option. but this isnt unrealistic, as IRL their are alot of ways to defend you up close with a polearm, however the only one in the game is curve stabbing.
Increase half-swording damage and speed by about 3-5 and switch to 2h weapon proficiency
As a practitioner of Historical European Martial Arts and someone with some common sense, half-swording as Talhoffer called it shouldn't be that pathetic. It should be somewhat slower yes and the cut reduced but not THAT much. Also, and perhaps more importantly, knights were trained to use their weapon in every aspect. If they encountered a heavily armoured opponent, it only made sense to use half swording techniques to punch through that armour or disarm him. To do this, he didn't have to use a completely foreign method of fighting (switch to a different proficiency), this was something he would have trained for and would be quite natural. Edit: Just an idea, rather than have an inferior yet identical right to left swing in halfswording, reverse the entire position of the sword, holding the blade while using the hilt and pommel as a blunt weapon, not sure if it's possible, just an idea.
Edit #2 Give halfswording overhand stab (the same that would be prospectively be given to pikes as mentioned later on). Why? Look at the manuscripts. It was possibly the most common halfswording position.
agreed
Increase archery and crossbow damage significantly
Let's face it, when that steel quarrel (crossbow bolt) comes smashing through your cuirass, tearing through the layers of mail and leather, and sinks its way into your chest, probably destroying any number of vital organs, you should be dead, and not walking on thinking about how much you hate Desire, who spent 5 or more seconds to load that thing and generations to master the skill of aiming it. As big as that number is, it's obsolete when you compare it to the combination of power draw and bows (which have a much greater rate of fire) and the godawful 7 power throw throwing spears which can actually do more damage than the arbalest. Yeah. Regarding bows, while not quite as absurd as the crossbows, admit it doesn't make sense to see some strength crutching 2her stroll by with 5 arrows sticking out of him, and he's still at half health. Increasing archery damage would be more realistic, and, what do ya know, balance the game by curbing the big picture effectiveness of 2hers.
yes, but more realistic: every arrow should bounce off from plate armor, bolts however should hit through it. also, i think we should make sure that doing archer lines is the only thing that is impossible to charge without shields and some good tactics.
Eliminate shield clipping
I don't know if this actually can be solved, but countless times I have watched a blade magically go through the edge of my shield simply because of the targets position. "Getting around the shield" shouldn't be quite so easy. This would be accomplished by a realistic shield with collisional mesh properties.
agreed, it should be impossible to walk through shields, wich will make shieldwalls way more effective (atm, you just kick someone and walk through the shieldwall, wich is just stupid. however, what you say is also contradictory to your next opinion. i have seen people blocking me from behind with their shield enough, so dont make the forcefield even bigger. also, make the shield do full protection to the back when it is put their, however this should make the 'turtles' even more slower.
Remove "magnetic"/"force field" shielding affect
This is a big one. Of course arrows that were heading toward's your face or foot being magically drawn to your shield dramatically increases your survival rate, but it completely removes the higher elements of skilled archery. It has been argued that this is essential for game balance. After all, who wants to be the first person going up the ladder with no hope of getting off said ladder except as a corpse with arrows bristling from your eye sockets and toes? Well that's why you don't want to be the first person going up the ladder, because it sucks. Fortunately, we have this awesome thing called a siege tower! So if the defence on the walls is to thick, attacker's can use that (instead of just strolling up the ladder and clearing any resistance with a single great mauler). Also, implementing this will bring back more variety. In a siege, the kite, heater, and board (pavise) shields might finally get a chance to shine again rather than being eternally in the shadow of the statistically superior round shields. If nothing were done to curb the unbalanced 2h, this at least would bring back enough archers to make players think twice before choosing to go with the most exploitable class in the mod.
i dont think its too bad, i see the fact that the forcefield of your shield becomes bigger as the fact that you are more skilled with the shield. you can 'catch' arrows with it. same as a gladiator fighting with a buckler, he doesnt keep his shield in front of him as it looks like in the game, he moves his shield to the incoming sword to block it. this is just too hard to mod into the game so thats why they added the forcefield
Add overhand thrust to spear and shield
End the tyranny of Block Down for Invincibility! This is kind of a common sense thing. More realistic, adds variety to game. Go outside with a broom stick and a trashcan lid and see how it feels! I could rant on this more but why don't you just watch this video. Viable animation example in Vikingr mod.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY3GtNoxAdM
video also suggest shieldbash, however i would either like to see overhead stab or as mentioned before, the fact that blocking more weapons increases the chance on crushtrough (as you shouldnt be able to block multiple incoming thrusts at the same time. if you dont believe me, ask your little brothers/sisters/children/neighbours to take a stick (eg a broom) and stab at you at the same time, now you have to try to block that with 1 single stick
Change overhand swing on 2 directional polearms (excepting awlpikes and halberds) to overhand thrust (animations in Fire&Sword)
Again working against the fore said tyranny. Aside from being historically accurate, realistic, and a lot less stupid looking, imagine- pikes would actually be a force to be reckoned. Pikers\Longspears would still be a support class, but it would make them less absurdly helpless against someone spamming the down block. So cRPG isn't With Fire & Sword? The over hand thrust (using a spear) was also used in viking shieldwalls FYI, and again, common sense.
be sure, pikers are a force to be reckoned, we are just not good at duels. if i am in one team and the other team has a equal number of players but no piker, my team wins
Thank you for reading my somewhat lengthy monologue on what I think should be fixed, added, or removed to cRPG.
im happy that i made it, even at New Years eve, i hope you can see the fact that im not favoring any kind of weapon. i know that mine is good as it is, i know that some weapons need a buff and some a sort of nerf. i just try to focus on realism
Finnian Tiercel, the Gaunt, Captain of the King's Guard of the Hounds of Chulainn (there are many variations in the spelling, stop griefing me Dazed), Son of Lethwin Far Seeker
Happy new year !
Also if all of this is implemented I instaquit. Projectiles are much too effective against heavy armored infantry already,If an arrow sank into your body, you should most likely be out for the fight. Armour, even mail, would probably keep you alive, but you can't all be Boromir. :/ shield or not, and the shield forcefield is needed for shields to be anywhere close to useful.I disagree, I think they would still be plenty useful providing you didn't try to grab an archer's devoted attention at close range. I find archery too inaccurate to shoot off toes even if they don't have a shield, admittedly I'm not Robin Hood but that's my experience to Otherwise you are simply better without one, allowing you to use longer, faster and more damaging weapons as well as moving way faster. It's 2013, everybody knows how to block and everybody knows 1h weapons are crap. The only use shields still have is blocking projectiles. <True! This is so because 2hers can clip through or S key/spam :)
Also this is stupid but if the vertical shield forcefield was to be removed, it would be impossible to protect your feet.Yup, It's pretty much like that in real life because your shield can only be lowered to the reach of your arm. A counter for this might be a crouch ability but that's a different topic. With all the camera movement you like, you just can't cover your feet because the shield, rather than being held lower, will only be tilted.
The warband engine will never be realistic enough for these changes to actually work balance wise. And anyway, realism and fun don't go in the same direction. There we, and a lot of other people disagree. I believe that while perfect realism can't be achieved, if we get as close as we can to it, the game will actually be more balanced. It's when we divert from this that things become unbalanced and we unbalance other elements to try to fix our mistake.
Also don't listen to GTX when comparing anything to 2h. He is biaised like hell. This I agree with :mrgreen:
So makelele is that leecher guy who plays regeball all the time,and when he leech enough he buys a plated charger and go to eu1 and still ride in peasant cloth.
If he supports you then it must be true. If you were such a expirienced shielder why don't you know that archers can shoot you from sides,and arrows pass trough shields if you use not round shields? Why do you think everyone use elite cav,husakarls,heavy round shield?
removih force field would be such a big buff to archery that every dicent COD and CS player would play as archer.
Over half of server would be ranged.
Everyone disagree'ing with u seems to be wrong. U even said that ur effort seemed less pointless, like ur opinions had to be made into the game.
U might accept people which nearly agree with u, but not people who goes against u.
Also... Double post, le fail.
PS: Plz dont hurt my grammar again, or give negative opinions about me. It is such a hurtful answer, and it is rly rly smart.
it is still game and don't need to be real and balanced.
Everyone disagreeing with my post? LoL, go back and read the posts. So since I'm "against u" why don't you "accept me".
Everyone disagreeing with my post? LoL, go back and read the posts. So since I'm "against u" why don't you "accept me".
Bads agree with a Bad news at 11.
All I got out of this thread is how annoying it is to have your response within the quote.. Still probably going to read them all, though.
EU complains about archery and NA complains about 2 handers which is why we always agree to disagree on everything, so I decided to make cookies maybe we can all for once just sit down and agree to love cookies at least?!They are, the culture and skill differences are as big factures as game balance.
I don't play on EU so I got no idea on how EUs want to balance the game other than the 30 QQ threads about range nerfs and rage quitting comments when they see a couple or dozen archers on a hill Makes. sense I guess. Then again if you look at the history of cRPG threads there is always a current crying thread about nerf'ing one thing or another. It almost seems as if NA and EU are playing a whole different game
They are, the culture and skill differences are as big factures as game balance.
But maybe you're just one of those players who is pro at everything?
Yep, that's me!
Eliminate 2h thrust exploit (aka lolstab)
Can't agree more.
Increase half-swording damage and speed by about 3-5 and switch to 2h weapon proficiency
Would also be nice.
and not walking on thinking about how much you hate Desire, who spent 5 or more seconds to load that thing and generations to master the skill of aiming it.
lol... Desire is good, but come on it took me an hour of playing to be a pro at xbow and 2 hours for archery.
I'm a disgustingLARPerpractitioner of Hisotrical European Martial Arts who likes to namedrop Talhoffer even though I read about him for the first time one month ago on wikipedia. Mylifetime of LARPingtwo weeks of European Martial Arts Training make me an expert not only on the entire spectrum of pre-gundpowder combat from the 5th to 15th centuries, but also on game design. My proposal to lower an entire class of weapon's speeds across the board in an already slow and boring mod is clear evidence of that fact. Furthermore, I like to use terms like "lolstab" without actually knowing what they mean in order to pander. I also title my threads in third person because doing so is the clearest indication that one is not. a. twat.
Quite.
Also, we don't do changes because we want the game to be more realistic. We do changes because we feel they are right. If they fit with realism, that's great, and it's also our guideline, but almost never the reason for a change. We are not trying do create a simulator, we are trying to create a game.
From someone who plays on both the only difference is that EU has better ranged and NA has better cavalry.
Therefore nerf both ranged and cavalry thanks in advance.
When I watch NA cav videos, I feel like the general NA player is completely oblivious to cav. I mean it's quite telling that you guys use fat horses and still nobody manages to dodge you.
Thats from the great Donkey himself. Most of the things in the OP seem to be an attempt to increase realism, but personally I don't think making things more realistic is always the way to make the gameplay more fun. The funny thing with realism is people are often very selective with which exact parts should be realistic, and can really just want to use it to tweak gameplay to suit themselves. Rarely will someone want something realistic just for the hell of it, its to push the gameplay in a direction they find better (subjectively). Not only that but you then have different perceptions of just what is realistic and what isn't, and which aspects should the player control, or is it assumed the character takes control of that particular skill.
Anyway, cRPG is just a silly team based fighting game for me. We have people running around randomly shouting "Close the Gate!", "Open the Gate!", "For the Dog!", "The Treats!" , its not really intended as a serious game imo. Its not really a medieval simulator. Not saying you can't enjoy it for its realism in some ways, and I get why people want to make it more realistic. Its just not going to happen purely for the sake of making it more realistic. It will have to coincide with improved gameplay (again subjectively)
The main reason melee combat is fun is because it has some basis in realism, but I don't really agree with a lot of the realism based tweaks in the OP. Only thing I really agree with is Halfsword buffs (but keep them pole wpf). I tried a Claymore as halfsword and I did 31 cut swings, (and swing slower than my long bardiche), and had a 117 (or so) length pole stab with 29 pierce. Pretty worthless in every way except for trolling around.
The shields need some forcefield against ranged, but I agree that they are silly in melee combat. This is an instance where its not just unrealistic, its jarringly implausible and looks ridiculous when the shield covers someone's back or even protections a horse from underneath.
I agree with fixing glitches or buggy attacks. Don't agree with nerfing 2 handers though personally
Medieval warfare, what this game is based upon, was balanced.
I have played as all of these classes with many different weapons and different builds, and have had fun with them and was effective with all of them. cRPG is very balanced right now. Just because you see "cav and ranged" dominating right now doesn't mean anything needs a balance or buff. It's a common trend to have one class dominating the servers. It could be Polearms next week for all we know. There is only a few problems we need to fix, such as the force field of shields and other minor things.
EU complains about archery and NA complains about 2 handers which is why we always agree to disagree on everything, so I decided to make cookies maybe we can all for once just sit down and agree to love cookies at least?!
Re: Finnian Tiercel's evaluation and recommendations for cRPG
No.
You pick 1 movie of a pro hoplite and want that to be the standard.
On top of that you want to kill the balance of crpg by nerfing 2h in both speed and stab, and buff ranged damage by a lot.
You are way too biased as a hoplite. Any buff to ranged is a buff to shields, and any nerf to 2h is a buff to the other melee classes.
1 gen as hoplite and all of a sudden I'm biased eh? Re read the post tardo, I've spent more generations as 2h than any other classes combined. If it wasn't such a cheat I might go back to it. If they game was so balanced as you say, then why are 60% or more of player 2hers?
a) Don't call me a retard
b) All your suggestions are pro hoplite and anti 2h
c) 60% is not even close... crpg is rather balanced as it is. Every class has its role, 2hander is the best killer. Shields are better at surviving. Polearms are, depending on build, a good support role.
Don't make stupid and false statements about what I wrote.
How is removing\cutting back on force field shiels pro hoplite? It isn't, it means I get shot in the face and foot a lot more. Open your eyes, I like 2h and would love to play it again, it's just not balanced, other wise i wouldn't have written all this. As you said, 2hander is the best killer. The best killer should depend on the skill of the player, not exploits and unbalanced stats.
If skill doesnt have much to say, then why dont we have a little race on a server or a duel on Eu_3? Instead of all these words which doesnt bring u anywhere.
fyt me irl i bet u dunt even lift
No but really, grow up.
Don't make stupid and false statements about what I wrote.
How is removing\cutting back on force field shiels pro hoplite? It isn't, it means I get shot in the face and foot a lot more. Open your eyes, I like 2h and would love to play it again, it's just not balanced, other wise i wouldn't have written all this. As you said, 2hander is the best killer. The best killer should depend on the skill of the player, not exploits and unbalanced stats.
So if you get hit by a one handed warhammer that should hurt less then if you get hit with a great sword? Personally I disagree, most two handers are just spammers not natural killers (aka skilled players.) As for his suggestion, its just a suggestion that he thinks will make the game fun you think it will make it worse, its just an opinion no need to get all offended. :rolleyes:
If skill doesnt have much to say, then why dont we have a little race on a server or a duel on Eu_3? Instead of all these words which doesnt bring u anywhere.
I am just going to address one point, the people that use having versatility within a class as a balance argument.
Now it might be true that polearm has a more diverse selection of weapons, but how does also being able to use a longspear, a swiss halberd, and a poleaxe help me exactly when I can only use one of these weapons at a time and Mr. 2h over there has a better weapon when taking all things together? Having a more diverse selection of weapons does not make a class stronger, because it does not give any advantage during actual gameplay.
Okay, another point. Archery damage should not get a buff. I have 69 body armour and 65 hp and arrows regularly take 40-60% of my health in one shot, which is utterly ridiculous, seeing as I mostly tank anywhere between 5-20 melee hits to die. Wearing armour is the only thing I can do to protect myself against ranged and it barely helps at all.
Ok, so this is the first time I've read a full thread, and I can't say much.Glad you think so Froto and yes I agree with you. I don't think I'm biased towards my own current (again, first gen playing as pole\shield) class, the damage and speed nerfs to using pole and shield I actually think are well placed. That's not personal bias.
You will always have the guys who want something changed (or tried out, changes don't have to be permanent)
And you will always have the guys who shoot down every idea because of their personal reasons. ^
I think they were good suggestions.
You called me a tardo, obvious from (re)tard
You suggest drastical changes in combat, i say the changes you desire will make this mod more unbalanced and less fun.
I'm not sure about overhead stab from an asthetic pov. When I first started playing this I didn't even know you could block stabs, it just looks so odd to hold a weapon horizontally and then that stops stabs. Having the same for overheads with people doing overhead stabs while aiming towards people feet would be again quite odd and not very intuitive, especially for new players.
It sounds like a cool idea but I just don't think it would play out well in practice
Down block is only block that make sence.
You can't block weapons like you can in this game,blocking overhead,side swings is not real at all,you can only move that weapon swing in some side like downblock do.
dude you cant block an axe that comes from side or as overhead.
You can only move it in some side. It is same as fists that comes to your face you can dodge them or move enemy fist in some side with ur hand to miss ur face.
Down block moves incoming thrust into air so it is only real block out there. You can't blcok a danish gs or any other weapon if it was comming from overhead or side direction in rl.
Holding a static weapon horizontally will not stop any stab at all, not even one aimed directly at it, it will glance and still stab forwards.
Downblock is the most unrealistic block in the game. Sorry but its pure BS, regardless of any balance or opinion on melee gameplay. Its just makes no sense at all
Ok, so this is the first time I've read a full thread, and I can't say much.
You will always have the guys who want something changed (or tried out, changes don't have to be permanent)
And you will always have the guys who shoot down every idea because of their personal reasons. ^
I think they were good suggestions.
When I play as an archer on my alt (6pd, Rus bow) I'm lucky to hit someone more than once and it usually takes me 2-3 hits to kill them.
dude you cant block an axe that comes from side or as overhead.
You can only move it in some side. It is same as fists that comes to your face you can dodge them or move enemy fist in some side with ur hand to miss ur face.
Down block moves incoming thrust into air so it is only real block out there. You can't blcok a danish gs or any other weapon if it was comming from overhead or side direction in rl.
Cry me a fucking river. Should it take less than 2 hits to kill someone? That's what you are proposing by buffing archery damage. And if you're describing your successful shots as lucky then maybe you, personally, are the problem there.
Oh and since you're aLARP baby<-- if you're going to be a arsewitted troll, at least be a good one and do better than this. practitioner of Historical European Martial Arts (lol) who cares so much about realism, why don't you take a gander at the section on arrows here
http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_mail.php
Historical accuracy is a bad way to balance the game, you apply realism selectively anyway, and you're not a historical expert. You're a [dumb] nerd with an internet connection. The period that cRPG purports to encompass (by way of equipment) is almost 800 years. Shit changes over time and your ill-informed vision of "realism" is only going to reflect a portion of those 800 years and be unrealistic for the rest anyways.
dont entirely disagree with it all but its so bias.
Dost thou even forge maille, brethren?
So that's what a complete lack of self-awareness looks like.
I didn't link that article to advocate decreasing arrow damage based on "realism" either. Though, I suppose something requiring a combination of reading comprehension and the slightest bit of nuance would elude you. I shouldn't set the bar so high.
Anyway, I notice how you don't actually address any points except those that wound your pride. Typical of the LARP/realism lobby. The funny thing is, their egoism is almost always entirely misplaced. It's clear that they fancy themselves some sort of combination of historical expert and deadly martial artist, but their utterances gain only the slightest of traction on the cRPG forum of all places. Frankly, I'm not surprised youlike to wear dresses and prance about with swordswould bring up such irrelevancies as your amateur smithing.