Finnian Tiercel's evaluation and recommendations for cRPG

[Jeade]

If skill doesnt have much to say, then why dont we have a little race on a server or a duel on Eu_3? Instead of all these words which doesnt bring u anywhere.

dayum bro. so HxC up in dis vidoe gaem

[Teeth]

I am just going to address one point, the people that use having versatility within a class as a balance argument.

Now it might be true that polearm has a more diverse selection of weapons, but how does also being able to use a longspear, a swiss halberd, and a poleaxe help me exactly when I can only use one of these weapons at a time and Mr. 2h over there has a better weapon when taking all things together? Having a more diverse selection of weapons does not make a class stronger, because it does not give any advantage during actual gameplay.

Okay, another point. Archery damage should not get a buff. I have 69 body armour and 65 hp and arrows regularly take 40-60% of my health in one shot, which is utterly ridiculous, seeing as I mostly tank anywhere between 5-20 melee hits to die. Wearing armour is the only thing I can do to protect myself against ranged and it barely helps at all.

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

I am just going to address one point, the people that use having versatility within a class as a balance argument.

Now it might be true that polearm has a more diverse selection of weapons, but how does also being able to use a longspear, a swiss halberd, and a poleaxe help me exactly when I can only use one of these weapons at a time and Mr. 2h over there has a better weapon when taking all things together? Having a more diverse selection of weapons does not make a class stronger, because it does not give any advantage during actual gameplay.

Okay, another point. Archery damage should not get a buff. I have 69 body armour and 65 hp and arrows regularly take 40-60% of my health in one shot, which is utterly ridiculous, seeing as I mostly tank anywhere between 5-20 melee hits to die. Wearing armour is the only thing I can do to protect myself against ranged and it barely helps at all.

I agree with you about polearms, regarding archery I just have a different experience.  When I play as an archer on my alt (6pd, Rus bow)  I'm lucky to hit someone more than once and it usually takes me 2-3 hits to kill them.  I usually don't bother with armoured targets.  Playing on the other end, I always found it very easy to dodge the average archer.  If there was just too many I might bring my green practice shield to the field, but that's my experience.  Thanks for your comment though.

Ok, so this is the first time I've read a full thread, and I can't say much.

You will always have the guys who want something changed (or tried out, changes don't have to be permanent)
And you will always have the guys who shoot down every idea because of their personal reasons. ^



I think they were good suggestions.

Glad you think so Froto and yes I agree with you.  I don't think I'm biased towards my own current (again, first gen playing as pole\shield) class, the damage and speed nerfs to using pole and shield I actually think are well placed.  That's not personal bias.

You called me a tardo, obvious from (re)tard


You suggest drastical changes in combat, i say the changes you desire will make this mod more unbalanced and less fun.

I was refering to your statement that everything I wrote was pro hoplite\shielder, which was entirely false.  If I am biased towards anything here, its  ranged, which would be odd in it's self because I pretty much suck at archery.   Even if you think 2h should have superiority in melee, I can't see how you support broken mechanics like the thrust and shield clipping.  I might add that while I like all my ideas, if just one or two were implemented I think it would balance out the game.  Seriously, there are way too many 2hers out there.  Realism put aside, it makes it very hard to get a multi with that much offensive power on the other team.  Curbing speeds by 2-3 isn't that dramatic.   Giving archers + 1 or 2 damage isn't either (even with my semi-squishy build, it takes 4-5 arrows to take me down).  Should bows (not xbows) be less effective against plate?  Maybe!
Regarding the shield force field, the only effect would be people using bigger shields if they could and actually positioning the shield up or down.  This of course would only really matter if an archer was specifically targeting you from a close distance.
Overhand thrusts would just add variety and fun to the game, having to block up/down isn't THAT difficult even without a shield.  Yeah so the enemy uses teamwork, then you should too.

[Grumbs]

I'm not sure about overhead stab from an asthetic pov. When I first started playing this I didn't even know you could block stabs, it just looks so odd to hold a weapon horizontally and then that stops stabs. Having the same for overheads with people doing overhead stabs while aiming towards people feet would be again quite odd and not very intuitive, especially for new players.

It sounds like a cool idea but I just don't think it would play out well in practice

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

I'm not sure about overhead stab from an asthetic pov. When I first started playing this I didn't even know you could block stabs, it just looks so odd to hold a weapon horizontally and then that stops stabs. Having the same for overheads with people doing overhead stabs while aiming towards people feet would be again quite odd and not very intuitive, especially for new players.

It sounds like a cool idea but I just don't think it would play out well in practice

Yes I've wondered how they came up with that block animation, it doesn't make sense, but that is an aesthetic thing, not influencing game balance. 

[Mlekce]

Down block is only block that make sence.
You can't block weapons like you can in this game,blocking overhead,side swings is not real at all,you can only move that weapon swing in some side like downblock do.

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

Down block is only block that make sence.
You can't block weapons like you can in this game,blocking overhead,side swings is not real at all,you can only move that weapon swing in some side like downblock do.

What?  Please rephrase your statement, I'm not sure I understand.  I only stated that the animation doesn't make sense for blocking a thrust but it wasn't relevant to the topic at hand.

[Mlekce]

dude you cant block an axe that comes from side or as overhead.
You can only move it in some side. It is same as fists that comes to your face you can dodge them or move enemy fist in some side with ur hand to miss ur face.
Down block moves incoming thrust into air so it is only real block out there. You can't blcok a danish gs or any other weapon if it was comming from overhead or side direction in rl.

[Grumbs]

Holding a static weapon horizontally will not stop any stab at all, not even one aimed directly at it, it will glance and still stab forwards.

Downblock is the most unrealistic block in the game. Sorry but its pure BS, regardless of any balance or opinion on melee gameplay. Its just makes no sense at all

The side and up blocks at least make some sense, realistic or not

[Banok]

dont entirely disagree with it all but its so bias.

[Jona]

dude you cant block an axe that comes from side or as overhead.
You can only move it in some side. It is same as fists that comes to your face you can dodge them or move enemy fist in some side with ur hand to miss ur face.
Down block moves incoming thrust into air so it is only real block out there. You can't blcok a danish gs or any other weapon if it was comming from overhead or side direction in rl.

I am assuming the word you're looking for is parry?

Holding a static weapon horizontally will not stop any stab at all, not even one aimed directly at it, it will glance and still stab forwards.

Downblock is the most unrealistic block in the game. Sorry but its pure BS, regardless of any balance or opinion on melee gameplay. Its just makes no sense at all

I don't know if you have noticed, but when a stab hits a downblock, there is a tiny parrying movement upon impact.  Sure, its not at all realistic, but this is only a game.  It is intuitive enough so a new player can realize that blocking down blocks the same directional swing.

Ok, so this is the first time I've read a full thread, and I can't say much.

You will always have the guys who want something changed (or tried out, changes don't have to be permanent)
And you will always have the guys who shoot down every idea because of their personal reasons. ^



I think they were good suggestions.

Someone, give this man a cookie!

[Kaoklai]

When I play as an archer on my alt (6pd, Rus bow)  I'm lucky to hit someone more than once and it usually takes me 2-3 hits to kill them.

Cry me a fucking river.  Should it take less than 2 hits to kill someone?  That's what you are proposing by buffing archery damage.  And if you're describing your successful shots as lucky then maybe you, personally, are the problem there. 

Oh and since you're a LARP baby practitioner of Historical European Martial Arts (lol) who cares so much about realism, why don't you take a gander at the section on arrows here
http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_mail.php

Historical accuracy is a bad way to balance the game, you apply realism selectively anyway, and you're not a historical expert.  You're a [dumb] nerd with an internet connection.  The period that cRPG purports to encompass (by way of equipment) is almost 800 years.  Shit changes over time and your ill-informed vision of "realism" is only going to reflect a portion of those 800 years and be unrealistic for the rest anyways. 

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

dude you cant block an axe that comes from side or as overhead.
You can only move it in some side. It is same as fists that comes to your face you can dodge them or move enemy fist in some side with ur hand to miss ur face.
Down block moves incoming thrust into air so it is only real block out there. You can't blcok a danish gs or any other weapon if it was comming from overhead or side direction in rl.

Go get some real life experience, you are completely ignorant.

Cry me a fucking river.  Should it take less than 2 hits to kill someone?  That's what you are proposing by buffing archery damage.  And if you're describing your successful shots as lucky then maybe you, personally, are the problem there. 

Oh and since you're a LARP baby <-- if you're going to be a arsewitted troll, at least be a good one and do better than this. practitioner of Historical European Martial Arts (lol) who cares so much about realism, why don't you take a gander at the section on arrows here
http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_mail.php

Historical accuracy is a bad way to balance the game, you apply realism selectively anyway, and you're not a historical expert.  You're a [dumb] nerd with an internet connection.  The period that cRPG purports to encompass (by way of equipment) is almost 800 years.  Shit changes over time and your ill-informed vision of "realism" is only going to reflect a portion of those 800 years and be unrealistic for the rest anyways. 

Dude, I make chainmail, i have a hauberk sitting on the other side of this room that I am repairing.  Don't lecture me on it's properties just because you want to be Boromir incarnate.  Regarding your statement that realism is a bad way to balance a game, I disagree, and unlike you, I have written extensively to back it up.,

dont entirely disagree with it all but its so bias.

Do you realize you're about the 10th ignoramus to say that?  I'm sure you won't be the last either despite the fact I have disproven your "argument" countless times.  But God forbid I deprive you.  I spent half or more of my cumulative generations as 2h, I liked it, and still would if it wasn't such a handicap.  I have spent a total of ONE generation as a hoplite and you call me bias?  That and probably the most dramatic element in my suggestion is to remove the magical arrow catching properties of shield?  So yeah, other shielders and I can actually be shot in the foot or face or anywhere else the shield isn't covering. 

Next time you post on a thread, read it first.

[Kaoklai]

Dost thou even forge maille, brethren?

So that's what a complete lack of self-awareness looks like. 

I didn't link that article to advocate decreasing arrow damage based on "realism" either.  Though, I suppose something requiring a combination of reading comprehension and the slightest bit of nuance would elude you.  I shouldn't set the bar so high. 

Anyway, I notice how you don't actually address any points except those that wound your pride.  Typical of the LARP/realism lobby.  The funny thing is, their egoism is almost always entirely misplaced.  It's clear that they fancy themselves some sort of combination of historical expert and deadly martial artist, but their utterances gain only the slightest of traction on the cRPG forum of all places.  Frankly, I'm not surprised you like to wear dresses and prance about with swords would bring up such irrelevancies as your amateur smithing.

[Built]

Hello people, if I can call you people, you bickering bunch of -censored for those few young people- -also censored-! I believe this is a suggestion thread and should be discussed in a polite way not involving the poster or any subsequent posters real life activities/opinions. That being said, onto the matter at hand of these modifications to CRPG. While Logic and realism would dictate that many of these things are valid and do-able, lets pardon them from the table for a bit. In CRPG, giving hoplites an over hand attack would not be that terrifying. Most of us have played NW, where unless you are an officer or Prussian, you get a musket with over and under hand attack. there are to attacks and they would both be fairly obvious making blocking them a matter of utter simplicity (although this may be a challenge for some of you, in a manner similar to forming coherent thoughts and polite manners) Getting rid of the "lolstab" while not required, as a good enough shield-bearer can just weather through the storm, it would be pleasant to all the other people and shield-bearers to get rid of the ability to abuse this, this does not mean nerf the pierce attacks of 2h weapons, but does mean that one should not be able to look off to the side, initiate the stab and the wind in in past a block or whatever to do damage. As to the magnetism effect on shields (on bucklers this is just silly, a buckler should not stop arrows save a direct hit to the buckler) "emulates" the shield bearers prowess (hence why the "magnetic field" is larger with a higher skill) with moving their shield quickly to stop things, while this should have an arm movement in it, both Paradox and the devs seem fairly busy/lazy to go and animate that.

Half-swording to a 2h WPF value and such: While it would make sense, half swording is kinda sorta a boon to the polearm people who need shorter weapons and don't want to hybrid, that being said the pierce seems to be higher, although not by much and the cut seems to be a bit lower, so no major problems there...the pierce would vary anyways. The range of a half sword strike cant really be increased, although a stab could technically, because then all the ranges would be increased and therefore create a hell of ghost reach issues

While I would say that yes 2h weapons are a bit fast, most of the 2h builds (non maul based) are high AGI in my experience and therefore would have higher WPF, meaning a faster swing, now while we could also argue that weight should be a factor in the speed, a countenance would be that all the 33/3 build would swing almost at fast as a 15/24 build. Axe damage is fine because of the disadvantages to using an axe, and the sword damage is tolerable/ok

Most of the other things in this post are relevant to aesthetics (because I want to kill things and look sexy doing it) and don't need much discussion, (although overhand pole stab would have higher damage, what ever dude...) so I here by conclude my post. GOOD DAY SER