Finnian Tiercel's evaluation and recommendations for cRPG

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

So you want to nerf shields just beacuse of one guy makelele?
Seems legit.

If you haven't noticed, my post was made before makele.  Makele only backed me up with that exemplary screenshot.

[no_rules_just_play]

So I've been playing cRPG for a while (currently lvl 31 8th gen, a 2nd gen alt and a 3rd gen alt) and it has to be my favourite multiplayer mod.  Big surprise.  I'd like to address some elements in it's current state that I would like addressed.  Whether the dev team has any interest in this or not, I hope it will at least give insight to interested players.
So here's what I have to say.
here is what i have to say, dont take it personal i still want you to finish the final boss heirloom pack
im going to focus on REALISM as, in my opinion there are alot of things that arent yet realistic. some weapons might be nerfed/buffed if they are being made realistic according to my opinion, but i think their should be a way to buff/nerf the weapons again so they are balanced again.


Reduce general 2h weapon speeds by about 2-3 speed
I actually practice longsword\greatsword techniques and I can tell you, you can't swing them THAT fast.  I spent several generations as a 2h.  With am 18\21 2h build I could spam even the flamberge like it was a toothpick.  An extremely high damage toothpick.  I know what it's like to be 2h.  I had lots of fun with it, but it has gotten to a point where it is unrealistic and unfair to people playing other classes.  Don't believe me?  Try playing a gen as a shielder or even polearm.  It's not near as easy.  But maybe you're just one of those players who is pro at everything?  Well at least look at recent "game balances".  Polestun removed.  Archery nerfed.  Shielders kick like grandma, etc.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but when was the last time 2h got nerfed?  A while back I thought some 2h weapons got a damage boost.  Oh joy...  If you still don't believe 2h is unbalanced, do a little survey of players.  60% of players are 2hers at the least, wonder why?
2H needs a nerf indeed, or some other classes need a buff (like my idea of adding the increasing difficulty to block more than 1 incoming stab from any weapon. i would gladly give the permission to make the pike not able to block if this is added. although i want to see it tested on 1 single kind of pike first, to see how it works.

Eliminate 2h thrust exploit (aka lolstab)
If the devs heed anything on here I hope it's this.  It's a broken mechanic that is simply absurd.  If it has happened to you then you already are nodding.  If you use it, then shame on you.  For any reading who don't know what I'm talking about, its something like this.  You are fighting some guy in a duel.  He has a big long great sword, so you get in up close.  You are just about to start dicing when he points his sword down.  His sword is literally inside of your character, who cares, if he thrusts he will obviously glance\whiff right?  Nope, you take the full impact of the pierce damage.  Sucks to duel a 2her eh?  That or the 2h thrust which goes way over the left side of your shoulder, miss? No, it someone curves right back in and now you are black barred at the least from taking a 2h thrust "to the face".
true, same as the maul that seems to going to be totally missing you but than curves and right before it hits the ground, it hits you toe. however as it was a overhead this counts as if it would hit you head with full forse, meaning to certain dead. however, the curvestabbing is something that i have to use very often as piker, their just isnt another option. but this isnt unrealistic, as IRL their are alot of ways to defend you up close with a polearm, however the only one in the game is curve stabbing.

Increase half-swording damage and speed by about 3-5 and switch to 2h weapon proficiency
As a practitioner of Historical European Martial Arts and someone with some common sense, half-swording as Talhoffer called it shouldn't be that pathetic.  It should be somewhat slower yes and the cut reduced but not THAT much.  Also, and perhaps more importantly, knights were trained to use their weapon in every aspect.  If they encountered a heavily armoured opponent, it only made sense to use half swording techniques to punch through that armour or disarm him.  To do this, he didn't have to use a completely foreign method of fighting (switch to a different proficiency), this was something he would have trained for and would be quite natural.  Edit: Just an idea, rather than have an inferior yet identical right to left swing in halfswording, reverse the entire position of the sword, holding the blade while using the hilt and pommel as a blunt weapon, not sure if it's possible, just an idea.
Edit #2  Give halfswording overhand stab (the same that would be prospectively be given to pikes as mentioned later on).  Why?  Look at the manuscripts.  It was possibly the most common halfswording position.
agreed

Increase archery and crossbow damage significantly
Let's face it, when that steel quarrel (crossbow bolt) comes smashing through your cuirass, tearing through the layers of mail and leather, and sinks its way into your chest, probably destroying any number of vital organs, you should be dead, and not walking on thinking about how much you hate Desire, who spent 5 or more seconds to load that thing and generations to master the skill of aiming it.  As big as that number is, it's obsolete when you compare it to the combination of power draw and bows (which have a much greater rate of fire) and the godawful 7 power throw throwing spears which can actually do more damage than the arbalest. Yeah.  Regarding bows, while not quite as absurd as the crossbows, admit it doesn't make sense to see some strength crutching 2her stroll by with 5 arrows sticking out of him, and he's still at half health.  Increasing archery damage would be more realistic, and, what do ya know, balance the game by curbing the big picture effectiveness of 2hers.
yes, but more realistic: every arrow should bounce off from plate armor, bolts however should hit through it. also, i think we should make sure that doing archer lines is the only thing that is impossible to charge without shields and some good tactics.

Eliminate shield clipping
I don't know if this actually can be solved, but countless times I have watched a blade magically go through the edge of my shield simply because of the targets position.  "Getting around the shield" shouldn't be quite so easy.  This would be accomplished by a realistic shield with collisional mesh properties.
agreed, it should be impossible to walk through shields, wich will make shieldwalls way more effective (atm, you just kick someone and walk through the shieldwall, wich is just stupid. however, what you say is also contradictory to your next opinion. i have seen people blocking me from behind with their shield enough, so dont make the forcefield even bigger. also, make the shield do full protection to the back when it is put their, however this should make the 'turtles' even more slower.

Remove "magnetic"/"force field" shielding affect
This is a big one.  Of course arrows that were heading toward's your face or foot being magically drawn to your shield dramatically increases your survival rate, but it completely removes the higher elements of skilled archery.  It has been argued that this is essential for game balance.  After all, who wants to be the first person going up the ladder with no hope of getting off said ladder except as a corpse with arrows bristling from your eye sockets and toes?  Well that's why you don't want to be the first person going up the ladder, because it sucks.  Fortunately, we have this awesome thing called a siege tower!  So if the defence on the walls is to thick, attacker's can use that (instead of just strolling up the ladder and clearing any resistance with a single great mauler).  Also, implementing this will bring back more variety.  In a siege, the kite, heater, and board (pavise) shields might finally get a chance to shine again rather than being eternally in the shadow of the statistically superior round shields.  If nothing were done to curb the unbalanced 2h, this at least would bring back enough archers to make players think twice before choosing to go with the most exploitable class in the mod.
i dont think its too bad, i see the fact that the forcefield of your shield becomes bigger as the fact that you are more skilled with the shield. you can 'catch' arrows with it. same as a gladiator fighting with a buckler, he doesnt keep his shield in front of him as it looks like in the game, he moves his shield to the incoming sword to block it. this is just too hard to mod into the game so thats why they added the forcefield

Add overhand thrust to spear and shield
End the tyranny of Block Down for Invincibility!  This is kind of a common sense thing.  More realistic, adds variety to game.  Go outside with a broom stick and a trashcan lid and see how it feels!  I could rant on this more but why don't you just watch this video.  Viable animation example in Vikingr mod.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY3GtNoxAdM
video also suggest shieldbash, however i would either like to see overhead stab or as mentioned before, the fact that blocking more weapons increases the chance on crushtrough (as you shouldnt be able to block multiple incoming thrusts at the same time. if you dont believe me, ask your little brothers/sisters/children/neighbours to take a stick (eg a broom) and stab at you at the same time, now you have to try to block that with 1 single stick

Change overhand swing on 2 directional polearms (excepting awlpikes and halberds) to overhand thrust (animations in Fire&Sword)
Again working against the fore said tyranny.  Aside from being historically accurate, realistic, and a lot less stupid looking, imagine- pikes would actually be a force to be reckoned.  Pikers\Longspears would still be a support class, but it would make them less absurdly helpless against someone spamming the down block.  So cRPG isn't With Fire & Sword?  The over hand thrust (using a spear) was also used in viking shieldwalls FYI, and again, common sense.
be sure, pikers are a force to be reckoned, we are just not good at duels. if i am in one team and the other team has a equal number of players but no piker, my team wins

Thank you for reading my somewhat lengthy monologue on what I think should be fixed, added, or removed to cRPG.
im happy that i made it, even at New Years eve, i hope you can see the fact that im not favoring any kind of weapon. i know that mine is good as it is, i know that some weapons need a buff and some a sort of nerf. i just try to focus on realism

Finnian Tiercel, the Gaunt, Captain of the King's Guard of the Hounds of Chulainn (there are many variations in the spelling, stop griefing me Dazed),  Son of Lethwin Far Seeker

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

Happy new year !


Also if all of this is implemented I instaquit. Projectiles are much too effective against heavy armored infantry already,If an arrow sank into your body, you should most likely be out for the fight.  Armour, even mail, would probably keep you alive, but you can't all be Boromir. :/ shield or not, and the shield forcefield is needed for shields to be anywhere close to useful.I disagree, I think they would still be plenty useful providing you didn't try to grab an archer's devoted attention at close range.  I find archery too inaccurate to shoot off toes even if they don't have a shield, admittedly I'm not Robin Hood but that's my experience to Otherwise you are simply better without one, allowing you to use longer, faster and more damaging weapons as well as moving way faster. It's 2013, everybody knows how to block and everybody knows 1h weapons are crap. The only use shields still have is blocking projectiles. <True!  This is so because 2hers can clip through or S key/spam

Also this is stupid but if the vertical shield forcefield was to be removed, it would be impossible to protect your feet.Yup, It's pretty much like that in real life because your shield can only be lowered to the reach of your arm.  A counter for this might be a crouch ability but that's a different topic. With all the camera movement you like, you just can't cover your feet because the shield, rather than being held lower, will only be tilted.

The warband engine will never be realistic enough for these changes to actually work balance wise. And anyway, realism and fun don't go in the same direction.  There we, and a lot of other people disagree.  I believe that while perfect realism can't be achieved, if we get as close as we can to it, the game will actually be more balanced.  It's when we divert from this that things become unbalanced and we unbalance other elements to try to fix our mistake.

Also don't listen to GTX when comparing anything to 2h. He is biaised like hell.  This I agree with 

[Mlekce]

So makelele is that leecher guy who plays regeball all the time,and when he leech enough he buys a plated charger and go to eu1 and still ride in peasant cloth.
If he supports you then it must be true. If you were such a expirienced shielder why don't you know that archers can shoot you from sides,and arrows pass trough shields if you use not round shields? Why do you think everyone use elite cav,husakarls,heavy round shield?
removih force field would be such a big buff to archery that every dicent COD and CS player would play as archer.
Over half of server would be ranged.

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

Thank you for this post.  I agree with 95% of your commentary and like your ideas.  You make my efforts seem less pointless.
Btw, sorry to disappoint, but I am not the Final Boss modder.  If there is something you would like re-textured though, I might be able to help.  I can also edit the heirloom re textures as needed.

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

So makelele is that leecher guy who plays regeball all the time,and when he leech enough he buys a plated charger and go to eu1 and still ride in peasant cloth.
If he supports you then it must be true. If you were such a expirienced shielder why don't you know that archers can shoot you from sides,and arrows pass trough shields if you use not round shields? Why do you think everyone use elite cav,husakarls,heavy round shield?
removih force field would be such a big buff to archery that every dicent COD and CS player would play as archer.
Over half of server would be ranged.

Judging by your avatar and post, I'm guessing you are a shielder.  If you like shielding so much, wouldn't you like for it to mean something other than pressing the RMB?  Your statement is grossly exaggerated.  Sorry.

[_GTX_]

Everyone disagree'ing with u seems to be wrong. U even said that ur effort seemed less pointless, like ur opinions had to be made into the game.

U might accept people which nearly agree with u, but not people who goes against u.

Also... Double post, le fail.

PS: Plz dont hurt my grammar again, or give negative opinions about me. It is such a hurtful answer, and it is rly rly smart.

[DragzJoker]

fack

[Lord_Bernie_of_Voodoo]

cRPG developers should just remove every weapon in the game that isn't a crossbow or two-hand weapon.

[Mlekce]

Only thing that is shield is good is for being able to block multiple attacks in one block and blocking arrows,in everything else it is full fail.
Speed penalty,need to waiste skill points,upkeep,need to wear less armor...

[Mlekce]

I am quite supprised that you don't have at least 40 - votes so far.
Bunch of nerfs and "great" ideas killed the mod (only extreme addicts with 10 or more gens are still playing this),it is still game and don't need to be real and balanced.

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

Everyone disagree'ing with u seems to be wrong. U even said that ur effort seemed less pointless, like ur opinions had to be made into the game.

U might accept people which nearly agree with u, but not people who goes against u.

Also... Double post, le fail.

PS: Plz dont hurt my grammar again, or give negative opinions about me. It is such a hurtful answer, and it is rly rly smart.

Everyone disagreeing with my post?  LoL, go back and read the posts.  So since I'm "against u" why don't you "accept me".

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

it is still game and don't need to be real and balanced.

Thus why your argument is invalid.

[BADPLAYER_old2]

Everyone disagreeing with my post?  LoL, go back and read the posts.  So since I'm "against u" why don't you "accept me".

Bads agree with a Bad news at 11.

[Mlekce]

Actualy i don't give a shit. Good thing that devs don't give a shit about QQ threads that Suggestions part is full.
I bet they never read them at all.