Finnian Tiercel's evaluation and recommendations for cRPG

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

Thats from the great Donkey himself. Most of the things in the OP seem to be an attempt to increase realism, but personally I don't think making things more realistic is always the way to make the gameplay more fun. The funny thing with realism is people are often very selective with which exact parts should be realistic, and can really just want to use it to tweak gameplay to suit themselves. Rarely will someone want something realistic just for the hell of it, its to push the gameplay in a direction they find better (subjectively). Not only that but you then have different perceptions of just what is realistic and what isn't, and which aspects should the player control, or is it assumed the character takes control of that particular skill.

Anyway, cRPG is just a silly team based fighting game for me. We have people running around randomly shouting "Close the Gate!", "Open the Gate!", "For the Dog!", "The Treats!" , its not really intended as a serious game imo. Its not really a medieval simulator. Not saying you can't enjoy it for its realism in some ways, and I get why people want to make it more realistic. Its just not going to happen purely for the sake of making it more realistic. It will have to coincide with improved gameplay (again subjectively)

The main reason melee combat is fun is because it has some basis in realism, but I don't really agree with a lot of the realism based tweaks in the OP. Only thing I really agree with is Halfsword buffs (but keep them pole wpf). I tried a Claymore as halfsword and I did 31 cut swings, (and swing slower than my long bardiche), and had a 117 (or so) length pole stab with 29 pierce. Pretty worthless in every way except for trolling around.

The shields need some forcefield against ranged, but I agree that they are silly in melee combat. This is an instance where its not just unrealistic, its jarringly implausible and looks ridiculous when the shield covers someone's back or even protections a horse from underneath.

I agree with fixing glitches or buggy attacks. Don't agree with nerfing 2 handers though personally

I understand that choosing selectively elements of the game and changing them in the name of realism doesn't work.  What I do think though is that if you make a general push, not selective, towards realism, you will achieve a better sense of balanced.  Medieval warfare, what this game is based upon, was balanced.    So if you read my post you will see that I want OP 2h nerfed to a realistic point, but I also want the unrealism of forcefield shields cut back.  Yes this is a big thumbs up for archers, which would curve the absurd number of 2hers currently in game.  So if archer numbers go up the cav will keep them in balance.  Things do balance out until you try to push things away from realism because someone doesn't like life. 

[Haboe]

Re: Finnian Tiercel's evaluation and recommendations for cRPG

No.
You pick 1 movie of a pro hoplite and want that to be the standard.
On top of that you want to kill the balance of crpg by nerfing 2h in both speed and stab, and buff ranged damage by a lot.

You are way too biased as a hoplite. Any buff to ranged is a buff to shields, and any nerf to 2h is a buff to the other melee classes.

[Kaoklai]

Medieval warfare, what this game is based upon, was balanced.

Lol

[Warborn304]

I have played as all of these classes with many different weapons and different builds, and have had fun with them and was effective with all of them. cRPG is very balanced right now. Just because you see "cav and ranged" dominating right now doesn't mean anything needs a balance or buff. It's a common trend to have one class dominating the servers. It could be Polearms next week for all we know. There is only a few problems we need to fix, such as the force field of shields and other minor things.

EU complains about archery and NA complains about 2 handers which is why we always agree to disagree on everything, so I decided to make cookies maybe we can all for once just sit down and agree to love cookies at least?!

The more and more I read the forums I'm starting to believe here that CRPG is rather balanced...

(click to show/hide)

Except for HA.

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

Re: Finnian Tiercel's evaluation and recommendations for cRPG

No.
You pick 1 movie of a pro hoplite and want that to be the standard.
On top of that you want to kill the balance of crpg by nerfing 2h in both speed and stab, and buff ranged damage by a lot.

You are way too biased as a hoplite. Any buff to ranged is a buff to shields, and any nerf to 2h is a buff to the other melee classes.

1 gen as hoplite and all of a sudden I'm biased eh?  Re read the post tardo, I've spent more generations as 2h than any other classes combined.  If it wasn't such a cheat I might go back to it.  If they game was so balanced as you say, then why are 60% or more of player 2hers?

[Grumbs]

A lot of people play this game because they enjoy the manual directional attacks and manual directional blocking. I wouldn't even touch this game without those aspects, so i'm only ever going to be polearm or 2 hand (or 1 hand without shield)

Its like the main selling point of M&B..if you check reviews its one of the key things mentioned about it

Its risk vs reward too..standing in some safe area dealing damage from range should not be rewarded. Being in the thick of combat with cav riding around and rellying on your own manual directional blocking and positioning should be rewarded with the best attacks and damage.

About realism, if I were to use realism to tweak cRPG I would make ranged much less useful against any armour. Chain mail was actually quite good at preventing shots penetrating. They had thick padding underneath and most of the force would be removed from hitting the mail. Most shots would not be flush at 90 degrees to the body either. Only penetrating shots would do damage for me.

[Haboe]

1 gen as hoplite and all of a sudden I'm biased eh?  Re read the post tardo, I've spent more generations as 2h than any other classes combined.  If it wasn't such a cheat I might go back to it.  If they game was so balanced as you say, then why are 60% or more of player 2hers?

a) Don't call me a retard
b) All your suggestions are pro hoplite and anti 2h
c) 60% is not even close... crpg is rather balanced as it is. Every class has its role, 2hander is the best killer. Shields are better at surviving. Polearms are, depending on build, a good support role.

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

a) Don't call me a retard
b) All your suggestions are pro hoplite and anti 2h
c) 60% is not even close... crpg is rather balanced as it is. Every class has its role, 2hander is the best killer. Shields are better at surviving. Polearms are, depending on build, a good support role.

Don't make stupid and false statements about what I wrote.

How is removing\cutting back on force field shiels pro hoplite?  It isn't, it means I get shot in the face and foot a lot more.  Open your eyes, I like 2h and would love to play it again, it's just not balanced, other wise i wouldn't have written all this.  As you said, 2hander is the best killer.  The best killer should depend on the skill of the player, not exploits and unbalanced stats.

[_GTX_]

Don't make stupid and false statements about what I wrote.

How is removing\cutting back on force field shiels pro hoplite?  It isn't, it means I get shot in the face and foot a lot more.  Open your eyes, I like 2h and would love to play it again, it's just not balanced, other wise i wouldn't have written all this.  As you said, 2hander is the best killer.  The best killer should depend on the skill of the player, not exploits and unbalanced stats.

If skill doesnt have much to say, then why dont we have a little race on a server or a duel on Eu_3? Instead of all these words which doesnt bring u anywhere.

[BASNAK]

If skill doesnt have much to say, then why dont we have a little race on a server or a duel on Eu_3? Instead of all these words which doesnt bring u anywhere.

fyt me irl i bet u dunt even lift

No but really, grow up.

[_GTX_]

fyt me irl i bet u dunt even lift

No but really, grow up.

If u havent noticed, then they arent getting anywhere with the words. We all know that these discussions always end up with an agreement!

[Haboe]

Don't make stupid and false statements about what I wrote.

How is removing\cutting back on force field shiels pro hoplite?  It isn't, it means I get shot in the face and foot a lot more.  Open your eyes, I like 2h and would love to play it again, it's just not balanced, other wise i wouldn't have written all this.  As you said, 2hander is the best killer.  The best killer should depend on the skill of the player, not exploits and unbalanced stats.

You called me a tardo, obvious from (re)tard

That aside, its only natural 2h have an advantage over shields for example. Choose for shield -> give up some damage for the ability to block arrows and all directions in 1. That makes 2h better natural killers then shielders. Thats not unbalanced stats, nor exploits, its a choice you make when you pick your playingstyle and class. Im a shielder, so naturally disadvantaged vs 2handers, yet in battles i score above average because of skill and surviving.


You suggest drastical changes in combat, i say the changes you desire will make this mod more unbalanced and less fun.

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

So if you get hit by a one handed warhammer that should hurt less then if you get hit with a great sword? Personally I disagree, most two handers are just spammers not natural killers (aka skilled players.) As for his suggestion, its just a suggestion that he thinks will make the game fun you think it will make it worse, its just an opinion no need to get all offended. 

[_GTX_]

So if you get hit by a one handed warhammer that should hurt less then if you get hit with a great sword? Personally I disagree, most two handers are just spammers not natural killers (aka skilled players.) As for his suggestion, its just a suggestion that he thinks will make the game fun you think it will make it worse, its just an opinion no need to get all offended. 

If they spam u alot, then it is because they dont need to do more. If u even fail at blocking spam, then why the hell waste time on doing tricks? By doing tricks, they might aswell just end up overthinking it, and then getting hit by a random swing from the enemy. That is the reason why 1h spam alot aswell.

[Froto_the_Loc]

Ok, so this is the first time I've read a full thread, and I can't say much.

You will always have the guys who want something changed (or tried out, changes don't have to be permanent)
And you will always have the guys who shoot down every idea because of their personal reasons. ^



I think they were good suggestions.