cRPG

Strategus => Diplomacy => Topic started by: CrazyCracka420 on October 01, 2012, 05:16:37 pm

Title: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 01, 2012, 05:16:37 pm
I hereby deliver this message on behalf of the Knights Hospitaller

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God Wills It!
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: BaleOhay on October 01, 2012, 05:19:09 pm
Sigh.. Building the big alliances before anything has even happened in strat 4yet
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Ganner on October 01, 2012, 05:20:28 pm
And thus the retarded mega alliances begin :/
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: dodnet on October 01, 2012, 05:23:06 pm
At least NA getting the same shit as EU  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Braeden on October 01, 2012, 05:34:40 pm
I guess this would make sense, since you already decided that BRDFCC and TkoV were your enemies.

May your union ever bring you joy.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 01, 2012, 05:35:11 pm
For the record, and not that I should need to explain anything to anyone, but this was a long negotiation that was reached in agreement mainly for respecting land claims (i.e. we'd be giving up any claims in the Tundra).  Shouldn't have to spell it out any clearer than that.

Also for the record, Hospitallers are not at war with anyone.  We haven't been attacking FCC/BRD (they attacked our fief and faction members) and we're not at war with TKoV.  We have attacked people that have loitered too long in our lands, but that was after multiple days of warning to leave.  TKoV even said they couldn't get a hold of their member we attacked in our lands.

If you do not have any trade negotiations with the Knights Hospitaller and are loitering around and not doing business and then leaving, you may be attacked, but we would most likely attempt to contact the person lingering. 
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Mayzer on October 01, 2012, 05:52:07 pm
For the record, and not that I should need to explain anything to anyone, but this was a long negotiation that was reached in agreement mainly for respecting land claims (i.e. we'd be giving up any claims in the Tundra).  Shouldn't have to spell it out any clearer than that.

In my opinion, respecting land claims and a full alliance are two very different things, but I can't say I'm surprised.

Should be a fun Strat 4!
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Matey on October 01, 2012, 06:00:58 pm
Should I take this as a threat? KUTT did say that if we wouldn't ally with them vs hosp then they would ally with hosp vs us. does that mean that this alliance has formed in order to threaten FCC? or is it for other purposes?
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Gmnotutoo on October 01, 2012, 06:16:43 pm
Should I take this as a threat? KUTT did say that if we wouldn't ally with them vs hosp then they would ally with hosp vs us. does that mean that this alliance has formed in order to threaten FCC? or is it for other purposes?

Well, Lordark already implied he wants to go to war against us.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 01, 2012, 06:30:19 pm
Well, Lordark already implied he wants to go to war against us.

Well he's not the final decision maker.  FCC attacked our fief and our faction members, but we have not declared war against FCC, and have no plans of doing so in the near future.  You attacking us could (and most people probably would) take it as an act of war, requiring no declaration from the people being attacked. 
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Keshian on October 01, 2012, 06:40:51 pm
Well he's not the final decision maker.  FCC attacked our fief and our faction members, but we have not declared war against FCC, and have no plans of doing so in the near future.  You attacking us could (and most people probably would) take it as an act of war, requiring no declaration from the people being attacked.

You mean the randomly assigned fiefs in the middle of our territory - just like you attacked a dozen different fiefs in your respective territory that mostly went undefended as they were randomly assigned?

Also, really???  The 2nd and 4th largest factions unite into a mega-alliance of 35% of NA player base (45% and 1st and 3rd if you include each of their various vassals (Norse Horde, Papal Guard, Astralis, Chevaliers for Hospitallers already made them bigger than any other 2 clans with 5 cities and countless fiefs).  Before a war has ever even broken out.  Both clans are frightened out of their minds of ever standing on their own 2 feet and desperately sought a mega-alliance against who???  The only clans that are anywhere even near their size are FCC and TKOV, most of NA is smaller factions doing interesting battles.  Why are Hospitallers always chasing after some alliance with most of the playerbase allied to them???  Scared of ever just fighting and warring without absolute guarantee of winning with 10:1 odds???
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: BaleOhay on October 01, 2012, 06:43:19 pm
Do all the other clans want to be my friend?
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 01, 2012, 06:50:46 pm
You mean the randomly assigned fiefs in the middle of our territory - just like you attacked a dozen different fiefs in your respective territory that mostly went undefended as they were randomly assigned?

Also, really???  The 2nd and 4th largest factions unite into a mega-alliance of 35% of NA player base (45% and 1st and 3rd if you include each of their various vassals).  Before a war has ever even broken out.  Both clans are frightened out of their minds of ever standing on their own 2 feet and desperately sought a mega-alliance against who???  The only clans that are anywhere even near their size are FCC and TKOV, most of NA is smaller factions doing interesting battles.  Why are Hospitallers always chasing after some alliance with most of the playerbase allied to them???

And every one of the fiefs in our territory we discussed with the people who owned it and came to agreements with 100% of them before we took the fief over.  We figured that wasn't too much for FCC to do with their land claims.  That being said, that's the exact reason why I don't take you attacking our fief as an act of war, because it was randomly assigned, and was in your territory that you were claiming, and more importantly, farther away from our lands than we were willing to try and hold.

We allied for mutual beneficial reasons.  Mainly KUTT wanted Yruma Castle, but didn't have anything to offer that would interest us.  We were able to come up with a trade alliance with them, mutual defense pact, and an agreement that if either side is fighting a battle, we would sign up mutually for them (or at minimum, not sign up against them).  That's really all the agreement stands for.  We don't have any enemies we are going to be nation building against, it's not like we're planning on marching across the NA lands and start taking over as much as we can.

KUTT is happy in the Tundra, and Hospitaller are happy in the steppe.  We have no plans for aggressive expansion, this was just something that was mutually beneficial to both parties.  Also, NH and Astralis are not Hospitaller vassals. 

It should not be taken as a threat to anyone, and will obviously strengthen the defensive capabilities of both factions.  I fail to see all the doom and gloom people are postulating about. 

Would appreciate if you guys would stop thread shitting in the diplomacy forum section, there are rules stickied if you need any helpful reminders.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Keshian on October 01, 2012, 06:55:21 pm

We allied for mutual beneficial reasons.  Mainly KUTT wanted Yruma Castle, but didn't have anything to offer that would interest us.  We were able to come up with a trade alliance with them, mutual defense pact, and an agreement that if either side is fighting a battle, we would sign up mutually for them (or at minimum, not sign up against them).  That's really all the agreement stands for.  We don't have any enemies we are going to be nation building against, it's not like we're planning on marching across the NA lands and start taking over as much as we can.

KUTT is happy in the Tundra, and Hospitaller are happy in the steppe.  We have no plans for aggressive expansion, this was just something that was mutually beneficial to both parties. 

It should not be taken as a threat to anyone, and will obviously strengthen the defensive capabilities of both factions. (AGAINST WHO???? no one is your size already hospitallers)  I fail to see all the doom and gloom people are postulating about. 


Mutually beneficial in that now we can ensure permanent boring deadlock as UIF NA side forms where you ally with almost everyone else or you can eventually choose to fight against factions 1/10th your size.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 01, 2012, 06:57:44 pm
Against any potential enemies that would threaten either faction?  So you can only come to diplomatic terms with another faction if you have enemies?  That's news to me.  Have none of you ever played EU3 or any seen any medieval diplomacy in movies or TV or books?  The Tudors comes to mind, as does A Song of Ice and Fire. 

People are reading too far into this.

And it's not like I didn't come and discuss this with you Kesh.  You certainly had options to come to diplomatic agreements with both KUTT and Hospitallers, but you chose not to.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Braeden on October 01, 2012, 06:59:18 pm
But I thought that FCC and TkoV were enemies who should be attacked on sight if seen within Hospitaller territory?
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 01, 2012, 07:00:44 pm
But I thought that FCC and TkoV were enemies who should be attacked on sight if seen within Hospitaller territory?

According to who or what?
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Keshian on October 01, 2012, 07:01:41 pm
Against any potential enemies that would threaten either faction?  So you can only come to diplomatic terms with another faction if you have enemies?  That's news to me.  Have none of you ever played EU3 or any seen any medieval diplomacy in movies or TV or books?  The Tudors comes to mind, as does A Song of Ice and Fire. 

People are reading too far into this.

And it's not like I didn't come and discuss this with you Kesh.  You certainly had options to come to diplomatic agreements with both KUTT and Hospitallers, but you chose not to.

Yeah like I told you before.  FCC members are 100% opposed to the idea of messing up NA the way UIF did to EU strat.  We refused to from an NA UIF with you and will always do so.  We thought you had enough integrity to do the same and keep the game fun still on the NA side.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Hobb on October 01, 2012, 07:03:13 pm
The only thing worse than telling the community you are a carebear? K-E-S-H reiterating the fact
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 01, 2012, 07:10:35 pm
Yeah like I told you before.  FCC members are 100% opposed to the idea of messing up NA the way UIF did to EU strat.  We refused to from an NA UIF with you and will always do so.  We thought you had enough integrity to do the same and keep the game fun still on the NA side.

I never came to you with a UIF NA proposal.  I asked if relations between Hospitaller and KUTT went downhill, if we would be able to come to terms about KUTT being a mutual enemy.  That was it.  I told you where we planned to stop our expansion if that happened.  I also talked to other factions about lots of scenarios.  That was just one of them. 

I don't think alliances make the game "not fun".  I think alliances that last not only for full versions of strat but into new versions of strat is not fun.  That being said, there's nothing inherently "not fun" about two factions coming to terms with each other in ways that are mutually beneficial.  This is a great way for each faction to become more powerful. 

I don't see the doom and gloom behind it, and I think people just feel threatened.  Let me throw this scenario out there (which won't happen).  If KUTT and Hospitallers were powerful enough to take over the whole NA lands, we would certainly war each other at that point over territory.  We wouldn't pull a UIF and just peacefully co-exist forever. 
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 01, 2012, 07:12:37 pm
Yeah like I told you before.  FCC members are 100% opposed to the idea of messing up NA the way UIF did to EU strat.  We refused to from an NA UIF with you and will always do so.  We thought you had enough integrity to do the same and keep the game fun still on the NA side.


Does this mean that the FCC is not interested in forming any alliances this strategus if two factions forming an alliance is considered the start of an NA UIF, or am I reading this wrong?


I'm a little curious on what the FCC considers itself since it is several factions itself under one banner.


Honest curiosity for future considerations, nothing more.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Gmnotutoo on October 01, 2012, 07:15:53 pm


I'm a little curious on what the FCC considers itself since it is several factions itself under one banner.



Unicorns have three members, Cavalieries have maybe around ten, BS has one member, and ....
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Keshian on October 01, 2012, 07:18:02 pm
Unicorns have three members, Cavalieries have maybe around ten, Narwhals one person with downs.

Don't forget the 1-man army of Narwhals is worth any 5 vassal factions!!!

Plus 187 clan has 3 members.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on October 01, 2012, 07:19:20 pm
I was under the impression that FCC/TKOV/remnant and maybe even chaos were unofficial allies more or less. With occitan gone someone had to balance the power, i guess that ended up being kutt.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Gmnotutoo on October 01, 2012, 07:20:29 pm
I was under the impression that FCC/TKOV/remnant and maybe even chaos were unofficial allies more or less. With occitan gone someone had to balance the power, i guess that ended up being kutt.


You must be really far up that Mr Slave's ass to come up with that idea.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Turboflex on October 01, 2012, 07:21:05 pm
Also, really???  The 2nd and 4th largest factions unite into a mega-alliance of 35% of NA player base (45% and 1st and 3rd if you include each of their various vassals (Norse Horde, Papal Guard, Astralis, Chevaliers for Hospitallers already made them bigger than any other 2 clans with 5 cities and countless fiefs).  Before a war has ever even broken

Just to clarify, as Huseby already mentioned, Norse Horde are not Hospitaller vassals, and not part of this new alliance.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Gristle on October 01, 2012, 07:24:40 pm
I was under the impression that FCC/TKOV/remnant and maybe even chaos were unofficial allies more or less. With occitan gone someone had to balance the power, i guess that ended up being kutt.

Having good relations and forming official pacts are very different things.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 01, 2012, 07:27:39 pm
http://forum.meleegaming.com/diplomacy/important-diplomacy-forum-rules/

We don't like the way the diplomacy subforum is being used right now - most threads derail into offtopic within page 1. We want to see more roleplaying and in-character conversation. This doesn't mean hardcore roleplaying, but you should write stuff with your character in mind.

Therefore, we will announce some rules that you should read closely before posting:
- no one liners - if you have something to say, put some effort in it.
- complete sentences, proper grammar - as above, put some effort in it.
- stay on topic
- no links to outside pictures, unless they really fit (ok: strategus map screenshot, not ok: link to 4chan images)
- same for youtube videos - unless you've done one yourself, it's most likely inappropiate.
- refrain from using "modern talk" - comparing a battle with the invasion of the iraq doesn't really help setting the mood
- think of it as people with messages that are getting sent to all of the lords.
- keep it in the timespan - so no talk about last strategus rounds, if possible
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Gristle on October 01, 2012, 07:33:07 pm
Qouting the rules is off-topic, and a url is not a complete sentence. Are you asking to be warned in your own thread? However, on that topic, I will not obey any rule that demands I not be succinct when possible.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Gmnotutoo on October 01, 2012, 07:40:00 pm
http://forum.meleegaming.com/diplomacy/important-diplomacy-forum-rules/

My Good Sir, we have fought along side each other in many battles and you know that I am a sincere person. I do not know what you mean when saying you wish to see me role-play more, for I am not an actress but a lovely and beautiful archer from Vayejeg. Everything said between us has come from my own personal thoughts and there is no imaginary person controlling me with some diabolical mechanical witchcraft. We may have gone off topic for a little, but it became the topic of choice naturally and it still does relate to the original discussion. From my family in the North East, we wish you a great relationship consisting of many hugs, pats on the back, and maybe fornication.


Lady Gmnotutoo, Duchess of Vayejeg.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: TugBoat on October 01, 2012, 08:20:33 pm
KUTT looks forward to working with our close neighbors and friends, Hospitallers in the future. I'm sorry if this upsets our other neighbors.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Aderyn on October 01, 2012, 08:49:15 pm
stop crying FCC. We are friends with KUTT, that's the end of it. Your whining isn't going to make us dissolve our friendship =)
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: TugBoat on October 01, 2012, 08:52:39 pm
stop crying FCC. We are friends with KUTT, that's the end of it. Your whining isn't going to make us dissolve our friendship =)

Acting like that ain't cool dood. They're not whining really. Due to situations in the past they have voiced concerns, that's all. All we can do is tell them otherwise and be respectful.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Garem on October 01, 2012, 09:02:27 pm
Yeah like I told you before.  FCC members are 100% opposed to the idea of messing up NA the way UIF did to EU strat.  We refused to from an NA UIF with you and will always do so.  We thought you had enough integrity to do the same and keep the game fun still on the NA side.

Although I believe this post is politically motivated (and bravo to that! this is not a condemnation of such), I speak to everyone else watching this go down not to grow too concerned about what is occurring.

This is an example of a low-grade alliance; like the Allied forces of WWI (and look what Italy did!), they are by nature temporary. The UIF or Fallen+HRE are blocs, they live perpetually; it's like the Soviet bloc of the Cold War, which was locked and unshakable in their adherence to a position (at least historically and by the view of outsiders for all three game and RL examples).

Note, these are terms that I'm creating, not actual definitions, for the sake of clarity on the issue. In reality, these two words are synonymous.

These two terms in the context of cRPG, alliance and bloc, are fundamentally different in that alliances are temporary. Allow me to draw some more examples from my own experience (which most of you share). Fallen and HRE are a bloc (GK is too, more or less). DRZ and Grey are a bloc. Hospitallers and Occitan appear to be a bloc, but that relationship may be changing under Arrowaine's new EU-First strategy. LLJK and Fallen, and BRD and Fallen, and TKoV and Fallen, and even DRZ and Fallen were all alliances. These relationships all changed, the latter even turning hostile at after Strat 2.

Do not mistake alliances for blocs. Alliances can, and have, broken apart as events unfold. Let that assuage any fears of the Sky-Is-Falling Chicken Littles out there. Alliances only last as long as they are convenient to the members. Theoretically, so do blocs, but due to innumerable reasons that kind of change never occurs.

---

All that above being noted, there's certainly something to be said about the Concert Standing conundrum. If someone in the front row of a concert stands up, he has forced everyone behind him to stand as well. An alteration by an individual of little to negative value can cause a net loss for the whole. Everyone is worse off than they were when they started- comfortably seated.

In our case, comfortably separated and unbound by agreements.

This is a fundamentally flawed argument, however, as alliances are NOT a net loss. Alliances are often necessary for smaller forces to compete with a larger. Alliances bring more predictability and make the changes from expectations more interesting; as a player in the underdog faction against larger factions from day 1, it definitely has made my own experiences more enjoyable. They also allow you to fully utilize key mechanics of the game, like filling rosters and establishing full teams that can work together, and finding that ideal balance between the different archetypes of players (cav, inf, range).

I would estimate that to effectively accomplish these three things listed above requires around 80-120 active players. And, wouldn't you know, KUTT and Hospis still don't have that many combined (they're getting close though!). Anybody want to bet that they'll have to bring in outsiders to fill rosters?

That's why there are alliances, and that's not a bad thing.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: ArysOakheart on October 01, 2012, 09:16:41 pm
What is this, a strat map for ants?!
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Braeden on October 01, 2012, 09:33:57 pm
44+46=90, within your 80-120 margin, Garem.  Though they will probably also be bringing in the Hospitaller vassals, I'm sure.  Which is +2 +15 +4, bringing it to 111.

But I digress.

According to who or what?

If I am wrong about the stance of the Hospitaller towards non-friendly clans in their territory, I apologize for the slander.  It may have changed in recent days, my information is, after all, a week old. (http://i50.tinypic.com/2porzag.png)
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 01, 2012, 09:40:35 pm
44+46=90, within your 80-120 margin, Garem.  Though they will probably also be bringing in the Hospitaller vassals, I'm sure.  Which is +2 +15 +4, bringing it to 111.

But I digress.

If I am wrong about the stance of the Hospitaller towards non-friendly clans in their territory, I apologize for the slander.  It may have changed in recent days, my information is, after all, a week old. (http://i50.tinypic.com/2porzag.png)

Yeah nobody that I know of, uses that site.  And Lordark is more ideologically than most of the officers in the Knights Hospitaller.  At the time however, FCC had attacked us (fief and faction members) so that was most likely why FCC was attack on sight in our territory.  TKoV shouldn't be, I'm guessing he's just paranoid.  We had a TKoV guy in our lands for almost a week, and after days of trying to contact him (and informing TKoV) we attacked because he wasn't moving and was just loitering.

Also i want to thank Garem for reassuring people the sky is in fact, not falling.  The alliance is basically an open acknowledgement to the world, that hey, we are indeed friendly, we respect each other's claims, we have trading agreements, and mutual defense pacts.  If either faction decides to go nation building, it will be after discussing it with the allied faction.  And it's very possible that either side may decide not to get involved in a war of aggression.  Alliances CAN change over time, depending on what is beneficial to each party.  Only time will tell.

Think of it more like a Civilization V alliance, than a UIF strat 2/3 alliance.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: HardRice on October 01, 2012, 09:59:12 pm
Don't forget the 1-man army of Narwhals is worth any 5 vassal factions!!!

Plus 187 clan has 3 members.

You forget that i'm off becoming Mandible, Kesh.

So, 2(?).
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Keshian on October 01, 2012, 10:18:19 pm
You forget that i'm off becoming Mandible, Kesh.

So, 2(?).

No one ever leaves FCC (sinister look), they just pretend to.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 01, 2012, 10:59:46 pm
Simma down now

http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesupcoming#!?page=strategusinfofaction
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Tanken on October 01, 2012, 11:23:08 pm
Glad that this agreement finally became public. We worked for weeks with both sides, and in the end Hospitallers had the more appealing offer. All we want is to ensure our claim to the snow is recognized and fulfilled and no one interferes with that. I've also noticed this Strategus Map is a little too large for the few amount of large NA clans to really sustain themselves efficiently. Of course, that may change in say 3-4 months when each fief is self-sufficient.

I am glad to have our neighbors become allies and this is not an aggressive alliance at this time. We both have mutual interest in fortifying ourselves in the event that continued wars in our lands erupt.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: ednos on October 01, 2012, 11:23:33 pm
Any negative actions taken against either faction, [sic] will be considered a slight by the other allied faction.

As such, the converse is true, and the Knights Hospitaller have, in effect, declared war on the vast and powerful SWF Empire! Prepare for war!
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on October 01, 2012, 11:26:33 pm
Although I believe this post is politically motivated (and bravo to that! this is not a condemnation of such), I speak to everyone else watching this go down not to grow too concerned about what is occurring.

This is an example of a low-grade alliance; like the Allied forces of WWI (and look what Italy did!), they are by nature temporary. The UIF or Fallen+HRE are blocs, they live perpetually; it's like the Soviet bloc of the Cold War, which was locked and unshakable in their adherence to a position (at least historically and by the view of outsiders for all three game and RL examples).

Note, these are terms that I'm creating, not actual definitions, for the sake of clarity on the issue. In reality, these two words are synonymous.

These two terms in the context of cRPG, alliance and bloc, are fundamentally different in that alliances are temporary. Allow me to draw some more examples from my own experience (which most of you share). Fallen and HRE are a bloc (GK is too, more or less). DRZ and Grey are a bloc. Hospitallers and Occitan appear to be a bloc, but that relationship may be changing under Arrowaine's new EU-First strategy. LLJK and Fallen, and BRD and Fallen, and TKoV and Fallen, and even DRZ and Fallen were all alliances. These relationships all changed, the latter even turning hostile at after Strat 2.

Do not mistake alliances for blocs. Alliances can, and have, broken apart as events unfold. Let that assuage any fears of the Sky-Is-Falling Chicken Littles out there. Alliances only last as long as they are convenient to the members. Theoretically, so do blocs, but due to innumerable reasons that kind of change never occurs.

---

All that above being noted, there's certainly something to be said about the Concert Standing conundrum. If someone in the front row of a concert stands up, he has forced everyone behind him to stand as well. An alteration by an individual of little to negative value can cause a net loss for the whole. Everyone is worse off than they were when they started- comfortably seated.

In our case, comfortably separated and unbound by agreements.

This is a fundamentally flawed argument, however, as alliances are NOT a net loss. Alliances are often necessary for smaller forces to compete with a larger. Alliances bring more predictability and make the changes from expectations more interesting; as a player in the underdog faction against larger factions from day 1, it definitely has made my own experiences more enjoyable. They also allow you to fully utilize key mechanics of the game, like filling rosters and establishing full teams that can work together, and finding that ideal balance between the different archetypes of players (cav, inf, range).

I would estimate that to effectively accomplish these three things listed above requires around 80-120 active players. And, wouldn't you know, KUTT and Hospis still don't have that many combined (they're getting close though!). Anybody want to bet that they'll have to bring in outsiders to fill rosters?

That's why there are alliances, and that's not a bad thing.


Much respect and a hearty +1 to that post. I'm not informed nor active enough to verify the numerical data in the cRPG world of strategus, but I do agree with the reference to the first world war.


I'd like to make a point, but I'm not sure how to do it without upsetting anyone. Well, here goes. Hospitaller and KUTT are very similar clans to me. Many people dislike both of them. They both (KUTT more prominently) are known for having heavy armour, all heirloomed ERRYTHANG, decent-good organization, and very solid builds. I speak mostly from experience outside of strategus here, but when a clan does that, they tend to be able to carry a team or at least become very noticed and visible on the battlefield. They become "those heavily armoured my old friendets" to a lot of folks. It seems only natural that they would be allied. In fact, it seems to me that this provides a great opportunity to fight both of them at once! I mean, if you dislike both clans, why would you not want the chance to try and kick both asses at once?

To me, there were alliances of a sort from day 1. On one hand, you've got the clans that are very laid-back and personable, such as CHAOS, FCC, and smaller clans such as The Pale Horsemen (former FIDLGB) and on the other hand you have clans that are less personable and more en masse, such as hospitaller and KUTT. It's only natural that these factions would stick together; they have very similar modus operandis.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Goretooth on October 01, 2012, 11:35:48 pm
But I thought that FCC and TkoV were enemies who should be attacked on sight if seen within Hospitaller territory?
Just you  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: TugBoat on October 01, 2012, 11:42:39 pm
I think KUTT and particularly BOAT clan are very personable. FCC from the start was more aggressive, trying to be opportunistic and taking things, whereas everything we claimed, we did our best to bribe the owners out of them and do it on friendly peaceful terms. We are not warmongers. We prefer diplomacy and kindness to take what we want.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 01, 2012, 11:48:37 pm
My favorite thing about KUTT is their BOATs who are more then kind enough to free our Fallen Ships from the Tundra Ice with their Tugboats whenever we are stuck, it makes trading much easier in our part of the world due to that. Now with Hospitaller in the area, we can look forward to proper hospitals as well to help ease the travels of our weary merchants!


Truly, the start of a great civilization and a turning point in all of Calradia.

Best of luck with your newfound alliance, I hope it cuts down on the bandits in the area. Stability is always welcome.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Huey Newton on October 01, 2012, 11:50:14 pm
FCC should disarm and give all lands to Hospitaller immediately since Lordark owns me as cav
Any conflict between our two factions would simply be an annihilation of the FCC in the worst way.

I for one pledge my allegiance and subsequent lack of skill to the great Lordark
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Aztek on October 01, 2012, 11:56:40 pm
I've always admired the guys from KUTT and look forward to working with them, I know others may be upset that this may turn into a huge carebear alliance but we are only in the infant stages of Strat. Hospitallers and Kutt have both taken their lumps in previous strats and continue to stand and fight with out ever giving up so I'm glad this is offical for now. I also know both clans would be fine brawling one another if it came to that, regardless of odds. But for now I look forward to working with them in this mutual endeavour.

To the haters.. "Can't we all just get along"
To the REAL haters.. "Grow up already, I'm sure there will be enough NA drama/Wars in the future"
To those who want to punch me in the face for the previous silly quotes.. "Deal with it!"

:)

Viva La Hospitaller! God Wills it!!!
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Mayzer on October 02, 2012, 12:00:49 am
If everyone simply got along Strat would lose all of its flavor, wouldn't it?  :P
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Gristle on October 02, 2012, 12:45:40 am
I think KUTT and particularly BOAT clan are very personable. FCC from the start was more aggressive, trying to be opportunistic and taking things, whereas everything we claimed, we did our best to bribe the owners out of them and do it on friendly peaceful terms. We are not warmongers. We prefer diplomacy and kindness to take what we want.

We are aggressive because:

If everyone simply got along Strat would lose all of its flavor, wouldn't it?  :P
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Snickers on October 02, 2012, 01:18:38 am
I  We are not warmongers. We prefer diplomacy and kindness to take what we want.

Key Words.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: kinngrimm on October 02, 2012, 01:34:52 am
Yeah like I told you before.  FCC members are 100% opposed to the idea of messing up NA the way UIF did to EU strat.  We refused to from an NA UIF with you and will always do so.  We thought you had enough integrity to do the same and keep the game fun still on the NA side.
i am curious, isn't FCC a combination of several clans/factions into one faction? Haven't you been trying to support( and failed ^^) Fallen last strat while being allied with TkoV? These are questions not statements so please enlight me.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Joseph Porta on October 02, 2012, 01:39:53 am
Better not make large alliances.. Theyre gay.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Keshian on October 02, 2012, 01:51:31 am
i am curious, isn't FCC a combination of several clans/factions into one faction? Haven't you been trying to support( and failed ^^) Fallen last strat while being allied with TkoV? These are questions not statements so please enlight me.

Our 4-5 mini-clans united to form a medium sized clan smaller than most other clans. Many of these clans have anywhere from 1 to 3 members with the alts of other clans wihtin the FCC filling up the roster of those clans.  Like I said massive gay alliances screwed over strat last time (and the time before and the time before) and we supported the underdog in that situation who was being attacked by not only occitan and hospitaller alliance but also desert alliance and their 8 clan alliance - 10 clans total (you included after you lied directly to great khans that you wer eon their side) with additional assitance from UIF including 2 large Bashibazouk armies and DRZ supplies.

Like I said UIF and its subsidiaries destroyed strategus as a viable game.  Now we have an independent NA map and the old allies of that meg-alliance in strat 3.0 (hospitallers want to do the same it seems like in NA) are creating a new UIF in NA when it is situated perfectly before that with a lot of moderately sized clans (excluding Hospitallers and their 3 vassals - huge faction) and now they are adding KUTT making all the eastern half of NA one mega carebear alliance just like in EU.  So yes it sucks that people don't have the courage and integrity to maintain a moderate sized faction that has a closer to 50/50 chance in any war intiated of winning or losing, instead of chasing after mega alliances to make sure only wars they have a 100% chance of winning ar einitiated with 10:1 ratio in numbers.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Gmnotutoo on October 02, 2012, 01:54:53 am
i am curious, isn't FCC a combination of several clans/factions into one faction? Haven't you been trying to support( and failed ^^) Fallen last strat while being allied with TkoV? These are questions not statements so please enlight me.

It is true that we are a combination of clans, but we total no more than 45 Lords and Ladies. I think you have us confused when mentioning we were supporting the Fallen while being allied with the sexy Kingdom of Veluca, because our ancestors of the Third Great War of chadz chose to leave the lands to relax and be merry in a tropical resort. Stories were passed down to our generation of many nights filled with drama-free debauchery.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on October 02, 2012, 02:01:07 am
According to the website there are only 4 more hosp than FCC, and there are about twice as many TKOV as there are hosp or kutt. TKOV is a mega-alliance in their own right. Strat needs some anti-trust laws to break up big clans like TKOV into smaller clans just like they did to AT&T.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Greziz on October 02, 2012, 02:02:05 am
I just have to say I think every one thinks fcc is bigger than it really is. We tend to only have 5-15 people on at one time. We however have people on at all hours as many of us have night shift and day shifts. However about a 3rd of our actual members refuse to even make characters in strat cyranule won't play strat. We can get him to sign up for battles and stuff but he doesn't do anything at all on the map
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Tanken on October 02, 2012, 02:08:02 am
I mean really if you want to break this down (and hopefully my facts are accurate) TKoV has its members, HoC, and MB in the Strat Faction. FCC has Cavaliers, Unicorns, BRD, and two other clans that I cannot remember for the life of me.

KUTT has its members + 2 Swiss Members + 6-10? Teutonics and Hospitallers have themselves (not sure who else).
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: okiN on October 02, 2012, 02:09:43 am
And thus the retarded mega alliances begin :/

So much for "NA has no megablocs."
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 02, 2012, 02:11:17 am
So much for "NA has no megablocs."


NA has always had MegaBlocs in every strat, they just collapse very quickly in every strat. We have had the massive Empire, then Red VS Green, and now a few new ones that may or may not loom up. Given the turbulent history of NA as a whole, I'm not sure anyone should be worried all that much, things change quickly.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Tydeus on October 02, 2012, 02:18:56 am
I mean really if you want to break this down (and hopefully my facts are accurate) TKoV has its members, HoC, and MB in the Strat Faction. FCC has Cavaliers, Unicorns, BRD, and two other clans that I cannot remember for the life of me.

KUTT has its members + 2 Swiss Members + 6-10? Teutonics and Hospitallers have themselves (not sure who else).
Hero_Party has 7~ members with 4~ SemenStorm guys, and then the billions within them. Should we be expecting an anti-hero_party alliance? Oh wait...
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: HardRice on October 02, 2012, 02:28:11 am
Hero_Party has 7~ members with 4~ SemenStorm guys, and then the billions within them. Should we be expecting an anti-hero_party alliance? Oh wait...

7 of the scariest soldiers in cRPG.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Canary on October 02, 2012, 02:35:54 am

NA has always had MegaBlocs in every strat, they just collapse very quickly in every strat. We have had the massive Empire, then Red VS Green, and now a few new ones that may or may not loom up. Given the turbulent history of NA as a whole, I'm not sure anyone should be worried all that much, things change quickly.

The difference is that this strat there's much less incentive for involvement from EU factions. Some of the reasoning behind the old blocs, the Northern Empire for example, was related to the potential threat of EU invasion, due to the fact that everyone shared one smaller map.

Because of the fact that the map is split in a much grander way (it now has more overall fiefs) there's less of a real reason for the NA factions to play big and team up since their potential for being opposed is far lesser.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Tomas on October 02, 2012, 02:49:56 am
I love the fact that 2 clans and 90 members constitutes a mega block in NA :D  There are a further 300+ NA players in clans with currently undeclared diplomacy and that's ignoring all the clans under 10 members plus the independents.

In EU we have 400+ in the UIF and 350+ in the anti-UIF.  That only leaves 80ish in currently neutral clans of at least 10 members.

23% of NA allying still has a long way to go before it gets anywhere near the 48% we have in the biggest EU block.  Please note I am ignoring really small clans and independents so actually these percentages are high.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Keshian on October 02, 2012, 03:37:35 am
I love the fact that 2 clans and 90 members constitutes a mega block in NA :D  There are a further 300+ NA players in clans with currently undeclared diplomacy and that's ignoring all the clans under 10 members plus the independents.

In EU we have 400+ in the UIF and 350+ in the anti-UIF.  That only leaves 80ish in currently neutral clans of at least 10 members.

23% of NA allying still has a long way to go before it gets anywhere near the 48% we have in the biggest EU block.  Please note I am ignoring really small clans and independents so actually these percentages are high.

Its a lot more than 90 including both clans vassals/allies.  More like 130-160 range.  It includes 40% of the NA cities and between 1/3rd and a 1/4th of the castles and villages.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: TugBoat on October 02, 2012, 03:47:09 am
Key Words.

Taken out of context, this was in response to people who use violence to take what they want. I only used the word take as a comparison. A more accurate word would be buy. It's hard to be pissed about losing a fief when you get another one and shit on top of that to sweeten the deal. However when you get attacked by a bunch of guys and lose what you have and have nothing to show for it, that's something else entirely.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on October 02, 2012, 04:00:11 am
It's hard to be pissed about losing a fief when you get another one and shit on top of that to sweeten the deal. However when you get attacked by a bunch of guys and lose what you have and have nothing to show for it, that's something else entirely.

Yep BRD did this to me (took my village), and after that  they robbed my caravan that had most of my money in the form of goods. Doing stuff like this makes you look like the bad guys. But i guess they dont call them the "bridge burners" for nothing.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Gawin on October 02, 2012, 04:02:52 am
Can we just make one badass mega NA alliance and fck up EU?
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on October 02, 2012, 04:04:51 am
Its a lot more than 90 including both clans vassals/allies.  More like 130-160 range.  It includes 40% of the NA cities and between 1/3rd and a 1/4th of the castles and villages.

Also kesh can you name 2 hospitaller vassals, (i cant even think of 1). Also name 1 ally besides Kutt (occitan is gone to EU), both clans amount to 86 players it be interesting to hear where the other 80 are coming from.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Gawin on October 02, 2012, 04:04:58 am
they fcked us up multiple times in last strats and they werent even trying (DRZ)
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Espwn on October 02, 2012, 04:07:29 am
Taken out of context, this was in response to people who use violence to take what they want. I only used the word take as a comparison. A more accurate word would be buy. It's hard to be pissed about losing a fief when you get another one and shit on top of that to sweeten the deal. However when you get attacked by a bunch of guys and lose what you have and have nothing to show for it, that's something else entirely.

(click to show/hide)

The way I see it is this,

Let me tell you a story of a boy named Keven, and his father named Henry.

Kevin wanted something sweet to eat. So, Kevin went to the ice cream man outside of his house to get a power-puff girl popsicle.
Kevin only had 2 dollars to get the one popsicle, but he demanded more. He wanted all of the popsicles in the ice cream truck.
Now, Kevin cried a little bit about it. He pouted, threw his little baseball cap on the ground, and even kicked up some dirt just to show how angry he was.
He ran back inside his house and called for his father, Henry. Henry has never seen Kevin cry so much, so he promised him that he would get whatever he wants.
Kevin wanted the ice cream man dead, and he wanted all of the ice creams and popsicles in the ice cream truck.
Henry and Kevin both went outside to threaten the ice cream man, but the ice cream man knew they were just big babies.

The End.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Mayzer on October 02, 2012, 04:08:11 am
Can we just make one badass mega NA alliance and fck up EU?

Absolutely. 100%. No.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Gawin on October 02, 2012, 04:12:25 am
Absolutely. 100%. No.
why not? because we're too busy squabbling to look at the bigger picture? We could kick their ass if we put our mind to it. We could do anything! *CUE THE MUSIC*
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 02, 2012, 04:12:57 am
Its a lot more than 90 including both clans vassals/allies.  More like 130-160 range.  It includes 40% of the NA cities and between 1/3rd and a 1/4th of the castles and villages.

List them kesh. The only people that i know that you can add to the Hosp clan/vassal status is astralis and they are 14 members. You can probably stretch it and add NH for another 17, but that's about it. All other sections are not even remotely allied.

If anything the current strat map is probably like this(and this is my OWN reading of everything)

Allies(official/unofficial) (Members)
Velucan Empire + FCC (82 + 40)
Hosp + Kutt + Astralis + FPF (44 + 46 +14 + 10)
Chaos + PH (19 + 11)

Independents(Other Large or slightly important factions)
Josho Shogunate ( 34)
Remnant (32)
Hero Party (11)
LLJK (26)
NH (17)
Order Dus Chevaliers (15)
SWF (7)
Coalition(133, but unknown NA member count)

War
KUTT v SWF
LLJK v Shogunate
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on October 02, 2012, 04:19:28 am
List them kesh. The only people that i know that you can add to the Hosp clan/vassal status is astralis and they are 14 members. You can probably stretch it and add NH for another 17, but that's about it. All other sections are not even remotely allied.

If anything the current strat map is probably like this(and this is my OWN reading of everything)

Allies(official/unofficial) (Members)
Velucan Empire + FCC (82 + 40)
Hosp + Kutt + Astralis + FPF (44 + 46 +14 + 10)
Chaos + PH (19 + 11)

Independents(Other Large or slightly important factions)
Josho Shogunate ( 34)
Remnant (32)
Hero Party (11)
LLJK (26)
NH (17)
Order Dus Chevaliers (15)
SWF (7)
Coalition(133, but unknown NA member count)

War
KUTT v SWF
LLJK v Shogunate

Anders NH just clarified in this thread they are not allies/vassals of hospitaller. Are astralis legit hosp vassals? Other than frank the tank i didnt know FPF had any relation to hosp, or they are kutts vassals?
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: TugBoat on October 02, 2012, 04:23:50 am
(click to show/hide)

The way I see it is this,

Let me tell you a story of a boy named Keven, and his father named Henry.

Kevin wanted something sweet to eat. So, Kevin went to the ice cream man outside of his house to get a power-puff girl popsicle.
Kevin only had 2 dollars to get the one popsicle, but he demanded more. He wanted all of the popsicles in the ice cream truck.
Now, Kevin cried a little bit about it. He pouted, threw hit little baseball cap on the ground, and even kicked up some dirt just to show how angry he was.
He ran back inside his house and called for his father, Henry. Henry has never seen Kevin cry so much, so he promised him that he would get whatever he wants.
Kevin wanted the ice cream man dead, and he wanted all of the ice creams and popsicles in the ice cream truck.
Henry and Kevin both went outside to threaten the ice cream man, but the ice cream man knew they were just big babies.

The End.

I appreciate the effort you went through to try to be amusing while ignoring context or just speaking like an adult.

Kevin actually had already bought the ice cream, is what you don't realize. He actually paid more for the ice cream than the actual cost of the ice cream, because the ice cream man was poor and had children he needed to feed. The only problem was, the ice cream man was out of ice cream, but promised to come back again the next week to give the ice cream he owed to Kevin. The ice cream man came back, and some douche bag named Tyrone stole the ice cream from the truck when the ice cream man wasn't looking. The ice cream man decided to go ahead and move on with his family to the homeless shelter and get his family on Medicaid. Kevin went to Tyrone to get the ice cream back from him. Tyrone didn't even really want any ice cream, he just is an ass hole. Kevin offered to buy the ice cream back from him at double the price, and Tyrone refused because his IQ tests at barely above retard level. Tyrone said the only way to get the ice cream back was to fight him for it. Kevin, being a responsible young man and not a huge bundle of sticks decided against fighting since he actually likes Tyrone.

In a completely unrelated incident, Kevin and his friend Trevor decided they would be best friends and play Super Nintendo together and trade Pokemon cards.


Since your reading comprehension is lacking I explained it to you using your ridiculous analogies. Hope I helped.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 02, 2012, 04:25:46 am
Anders NH just clarified in this thread they are not allies/vassals of hospitaller. Are astralis legit hosp vassals? Other than frank the tank i didnt know FPF had any relation to hosp, or they are kutts vassals?

Did you look where i placed NH on the chart? Under Independent. Perhaps FPF could go there as well.

That chart is based, more or less, on the way i've heard how strat mercs are going. (AKA who you should sign up for etc etc etc.) That's probably not 100% accurate, but based on who attacks who, that's how things will be split most likely.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Smoothrich on October 02, 2012, 04:26:24 am
Don't forget the Papal Guard, Malta, and Chevaliers.  They are all official allies of Hospitaller and should be counted with their side.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 02, 2012, 04:27:50 am
Don't forget the Papal Guard, Malta, and Chevaliers.  They are all official allies of Hospitaller and should be counted with their side.

Papal guard is under what strat name? Malta had like 5 guys. Any clan with 10< i didn't bother counting other than SWF because they boss like that.

Went and checked, PG and Malta (4 and 2 respectively)

Chevaliers are Independent. Haven't seen much in terms of Hosp support. Mercs maybe it.( I don't really count mercs as allies as mercs are technically their own choice type things)
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: TugBoat on October 02, 2012, 04:28:24 am
FPF are not allied or vassals of KUTT. We're friendly with them I believe after the weird Joey Baloney nonsense.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 02, 2012, 04:30:32 am
FPF are not allied or vassals of KUTT. We're friendly with them I believe after the weird Joey Baloney nonsense.

Won't change their status on the chart i made then. Friendly is near enough to ally in strat.
(IE won't attack each other, merc for one another, give prefrences too etc etc.)
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Espwn on October 02, 2012, 04:31:26 am
I appreciate the effort you went through to try to be amusing while ignoring context or just speaking like an adult.

Kevin actually had already bought the ice cream, is what you don't realize. He actually paid more for the ice cream than the actual cost of the ice cream, because the ice cream man was poor and had children he needed to feed. The only problem was, the ice cream man was out of ice cream, but promised to come back again the next week to give the ice cream he owed to Kevin. The ice cream man came back, and some douche bag named Tyrone stole the ice cream from the truck when the ice cream man wasn't looking. The ice cream man decided to go ahead and move on with his family to the homeless shelter and get his family on Medicaid. Kevin went to Tyrone to get the ice cream back from him. Tyrone didn't even really want any ice cream, he just is an ass hole. Kevin offered to buy the ice cream back from him at double the price, and Tyrone refused because his IQ tests at barely above retard level. Tyrone said the only way to get the ice cream back was to fight him for it. Kevin, being a responsible young man and not a huge bundle of sticks decided against fighting since he actually likes Tyrone.

In a completely unrelated incident, Kevin and his friend Trevor decided they would be best friends and play Super Nintendo together and trade Pokemon cards.


Since your reading comprehension is lacking I explained it to you using your ridiculous analogies. Hope I helped.

You seem a bit mad about this.






(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Huey Newton on October 02, 2012, 04:33:15 am
I admire these threads
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on October 02, 2012, 04:34:24 am
Won't change their status on the chart i made then. Friendly is near enough to ally in strat.
(IE won't attack each other, merc for one another, give prefrences too etc etc.)

If you look at it that way you could add Chaos/PH, Remant, LLJK, Hero party, SWF to the TKOV/BRD side. Atleast this is how it was last strat. Already speculating on the matchup for the next NA Strat World War.

My predictions:

Hosp,Kutt,NH,Astralis,FPF, Chevaliers
Vs.
TKOV,FCC,Remant,Chaos,PH,LLJK,Hero party, SWF
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: TugBoat on October 02, 2012, 04:36:12 am
You seem a bit mad about this.






(click to show/hide)

Your oversimplification and assumptions annoyed me.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 02, 2012, 04:39:21 am
Allies(official/unofficial) (Members)
Velucan Empire + FCC (82 + 40)
Hosp + Kutt + Astralis + FPF (44 + 46 +14 + 10)
Chaos + PH (19 + 11)

Independents(Other Large or slightly important factions)
Josho Shogunate ( 34)
Remnant (32)
Hero Party (11)
LLJK (26)
NH (17)
Order Dus Chevaliers (15)
SWF (7)
Coalition(133, but unknown NA member count)

War
KUTT v SWF
LLJK v Shogunate


Wuts most interesting in that chart(and that chart is wrong to some extent) is the INDEPENDENTS part. Look at the amount of players(ignoring coalition) that those factions have. Convincing those sides to join a side would be major turning points in various conflicts. While the large coalitons(TKOV's and Hosp's) are big, the middle between the two is dotted by factions that can, more or less change the course of the war if they choose to. Interesting. Wouldn't see that in EU. Now as for the likely split of those Independents...well I might say it will follow strat 3, but I think they might not and just say, NO! and we might actually get some interesting wars.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Tyrell on October 02, 2012, 04:58:28 am
Strat was killed by bitches joining mega alliances in 3 and it will happen again in 4. Grow some balls people, this shit is no fun with no threat of loss.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Snickers on October 02, 2012, 05:06:44 am
Why are people assuming that TKOV and FCC are allied? Why is TKOV brought up so much in this thread? Velucan Empire has 80+ members and FCC has 40+ members. NOT, Velucan Empire and FCC has 120+ players; we are not allied. Having good relations with people≠allies.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Tydeus on October 02, 2012, 05:06:57 am
Hospitaller Vassals: Order Dus Chevalier, PapalGuard, Malta.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 02, 2012, 05:22:03 am
Why are people assuming that TKOV and FCC are allied? Why is TKOV brought up so much in this thread?

Because I caught those currents when listening to things.
Because people complain about the mega alliance and thus use the REAL mega alliance of VE to show that numbers wise, VE is a real monster.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Hobb on October 02, 2012, 05:27:49 am
Ya the Velucan Empire has 0 allies and we have even went way out our way to keep it like this.

We secured josho shogunate land under the impression that they would not try to ally with us, and spend their time "doing weeboo things" which aparently involves fighting lljk

We gave KUTT a fief to give a clan a home in our territory that begged us to ally with them.

We have just enough members to fill 90% of our rosters by ourselves. And we did this by using two factions that only wanted a very minimal say in diplomacy and moreover wanted to do alot of fun strat battles. If they werent in our faction they wouldnt do strat, i mean whens the last time you saw an mb or Hoc post in the forums?

What this alliance does is force counter alliances to form to equal the current ones strength. I no and understand that its all apart of the game.

Also anders you are terribly misinformed lol

Chaos and remnant allied? Velucan empire and fcc?
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 02, 2012, 05:40:07 am
Chaos and remnant allied?

Never said that. Chaos is allied to PH(pale Horseman). They made a post about it somewhere in this thread i think.

Most of what I have is actually rather true. The FCC and VE probably the MOST WRONG of the table. Though I have it on GOOD AUTHORITY that Kesh pushes FCC members to fight for your side.(now they have a mercing policy of whatever, but a leader saying go here is indicative of general overall opinion). That is why I put it the way I did.

My Info comes from  This battle (http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battleroster&id=394) and it's before battle talk. Now yes that is very bad to base info on feelings, but that's how I posted things in that chart.

Tomas nailed it better with his post (http://forum.meleegaming.com/diplomacy/na-diplomacy-announcement-from-the-knights-hospitaller/msg619175/#msg619175). Same as what I mentioned earlier. (http://forum.meleegaming.com/diplomacy/na-diplomacy-announcement-from-the-knights-hospitaller/msg619218/#msg619218)
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Spanish on October 02, 2012, 05:42:53 am
Whats the big problem? Hospitaller has around 46 members plus chevalier, papal guard and malta adds up to around 66 people. Still not as much TKoV who have congregated together, if anything id think people would have been more upset about the Hosiccitan clan last strat map.

In any case I really dont think it be a truly massive boring carebear alliance unless the remaining clans like TKoV and FFC joined or even some of the independents. As it stands they're are plenty of people that could resist our alliance it just requires more clans of people working together as it should. Besides I don't think NA strat has ever or ever will become like EU cuz we are simply just awesome and love to hate on each other. I think this strat we will have some very interesting wars and battles taking place so continue giving us you're love and blessings on this beautiful union and good luck with strat!

Edit: We share a teamspeak but I've never heard of them being our Vassals from Dev or Peppo so I think we just buddies like we are with Occitan but for all intents and purposes in Strat. I believe they will be fighting with us especially Chevalier as they are eager to secure a place on the map.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 02, 2012, 05:45:24 am
Whats the big problem? Hospitaller has around 46 members plus chevalier, papal guard and malta adds up to around 66 people.

So that's official then that those 3 clans are HOSP bitc.... :wink:...i mean allies?

Perhaps I should make a more official table rather than an unofficial side line viewers take.

Based on EDIT from spanish:
So Sounds like MY ts. Two largeish groups(Astralis, Shogunate) that hang and get each other to merc for themselves, but not being allied.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Tydeus on October 02, 2012, 06:06:54 am
So that's official then that those 3 clans are HOSP bitc.... :wink:...i mean allies?

Perhaps I should make a more official table rather than an unofficial side line viewers take.

Based on EDIT from spanish:
So Sounds like MY ts. Two largeish groups(Astralis, Shogunate) that hang and get each other to merc for themselves, but not being allied.
Maybe, but they're actually vassals and not just "friendly" clans.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Gristle on October 02, 2012, 06:08:24 am
Most of what I have is actually rather true. The FCC and VE probably the MOST WRONG of the table. Though I have it on GOOD AUTHORITY that Kesh pushes FCC members to fight for your side.(now they have a mercing policy of whatever, but a leader saying go here is indicative of general overall opinion). That is why I put it the way I did.

To be clear: We are not pushed to join fights by anyone. We can merc for whoever we want. There has been at least one battle so far where we've had members on both sides. It is absolutely possible that Kesh at some point said, "hey guys, this battle is happening, so sign up if you want," but it's a suggestion at best.

Personally, I don't really know the other VE clans, but I like TKoV, so I am much more likely to help them than go against them.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 02, 2012, 06:16:52 am
To be clear: We are not pushed to join fights by anyone. We can merc for whoever we want. There has been at least one battle so far where we've had members on both sides. It is absolutely possible that Kesh at some point said, "hey guys, this battle is happening, so sign up if you want," but it's a suggestion at best.

Personally, I don't really know the other VE clans, but I like TKoV, so I am much more likely to help them than go against them.

Right, As I said, I do know of the FCC mercing policy. I was just stating that i came up with that chart based upon my perceived reactions.
I'm not privey to any diplomacy of these factions other than maybe Astralis's (as I'm a server admin there) and of course any publicly declared alliances.

That's just MY take of current strat based upon what I see from the various factions when I'm talking to them. I wish we had a public list of alliances for every faction. Most people can(and DO) assume factions into some form of group. It's human nature, we like to group things cause it's easier to remember.(Why have 15 factions when we can collectively refer to them all in either 1 or 2 factions, a la UIF.)
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Greziz on October 02, 2012, 06:20:13 am
I for the most part don't sign up for battles unless it is one of my clans battles unless I see people I really like to kill or a big big big fight worth uber tons of exp.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: kinngrimm on October 02, 2012, 06:38:54 am
....
so what are you angry about? just ignore those mega alliances and look for one of your own size to battle.
But If you fear the ^^ mega alliances would come after you then join forces with others. As Garem stated, someone stood up, others followed. Desert Alliance was a reaction onto Fallen/HRE/GK/others UIF etc and propaganda in strat 2.0. Desert Alliance had roster support in some cases by DRZ and Grey Order, but wasn't resupplied by them. Desert Alliance made trade with Grey Order which later was used by Grey Order to resupply Nords and their own troops to attack the Desert Alliance while Chaos and others were busy with Hospitallers/Occitan. I would have preferred for that attack to wait till we were out of the other war, but strategicly it was the best time to attack the Desert Alliance, well played.

On the lying part, your Matey tried several times in Strat 2.0 to make me brake my word and he didn't succeed. But what if he would have succeeded? I would have switched sides to FCC and in your eyes i may have been a great help. Morally but wasteland. I am still totally fine with my actions in strat 3.0, because you see, honor comes from within, reputation is that how others see me, but i know i stayed true to my friends in strat 3.0 so i kept my honor but lost a lot of reputation, when i tricked the other "Mega Alliance". When strat 3.0 started, i had a plan and i found alliance partners. But not all i called on became alliance partners. Nords even decided to settle next to me as did Byzantium after i told them where we would be and whom we would go against. I know that Okin rattled the cage and openly called "whoever is for Fallen needs to fight the Wolves in the desert" as told to me by a former contract partner. So there were several clans who knew what the Desert Alliance was about, where they would be situated and who would be involved against whom. Ujin later on appologized that they went also into the desert and as he claimed he forgot about our talk, well human nature can be like that i know, i recognize his appology and hope he will come back to strategus at some point. Mercs wanted to stay in the same area they were before but had a problem over Tshitbin with the Union the Strat before which ended in a diplomatic desaster as i was first hand witness. When then the Desert Alliance with strong numbers formed in the desert and Nords claimed the same space and Byzantium and Kapikulu also, we first waged war against Nords. They but were resupplied by as far we know Byzantium/Kapikulu and i was also told by HRE(not too sure about the last part, Rogue perhaps you can clarify that?). Meanwhile our NA Friends Hospitallers scrimished Fallens, as it was the plan and our believe that they may have problems to be suddenly in the front line while they had all the time in the world to build up in the strategus before. Hospitallers and Occitan did a great job there and yes sometimes when it got close they got resupplied by their EU Friends as happened vice versa, that is the nice thing about an alliance you don't really care that much who has what aslong everyone gets something.

We succeeded with "our" plans! The only clan involved there which didn't earn what was coming at them were and still is in my eyes Kapikulu and i will repay them this strategus.

And if Canary and Phantom Zero would have be a bit more willing to cooperate, after Fallen/HRE/GK/Nords/Kapikulu/... were taken care of in strat 3.0 and also a bit more clan disciplin on hopsitallers side as far as i remember ;) , there would have still be the chance to take the UIF on. Something afterwards Crusaders kept on working towards with me explicitly supporting it, but me not taking part in it anymore as i was exhausted then.

So Kesh, deal with it. There are alliances on NA. They even made it public, that is a good thing. Nothing worse then planing a war or an attack and you don't know what to expect ;)
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: TugBoat on October 02, 2012, 06:50:49 am
so what are you angry about? just ignore those mega alliances and look for one of your own size to battle.
But If you fear the ^^ mega alliances would come after you then join forces with others. As Garem stated, someone stood up, others followed. Desert Alliance was a reaction onto Fallen/HRE/GK/others UIF etc and propaganda in strat 2.0. Desert Alliance had roster support in some cases by DRZ and Grey Order, but wasn't resupplied by them. Desert Alliance made trade with Grey Order which later was used by Grey Order to resupply Nords and their own troops to attack the Desert Alliance while Chaos and others were busy with Hospitallers/Occitan. I would have preferred for that attack to wait till we were out of the other war, but strategicly it was the best time to attack the Desert Alliance, well played.

On the lying part, your Matey tried several times in Strat 2.0 to make me brake my word and he didn't succeed. But what if he would have succeeded? I would have switched sides to FCC and in your eyes i may have been a great help. Morally but wasteland. I am still totally fine with my actions in strat 3.0, because you see, honor comes from within, reputation is that how others see me, but i know i stayed true to my friends in strat 3.0 so i kept my honor but lost a lot of reputation, when i tricked the other "Mega Alliance". When strat 3.0 started, i had a plan and i found alliance partners. But not all i called on became alliance partners. Nords even decided to settle next to me as did Byzantium after i told them where we would be and whom we would go against. I know that Okin rattled the cage and openly called "whoever is for Fallen needs to fight the Wolves in the desert" as told to me by a former contract partner. So there were several clans who knew what the Desert Alliance was about, where they would be situated and who would be involved against whom. Ujin later on appologized that they went also into the desert and as he claimed he forgot about our talk, well human nature can be like that i know, i recognize his appology and hope he will come back to strategus at some point. Mercs wanted to stay in the same area they were before but had a problem over Tshitbin with the Union the Strat before which ended in a diplomatic desaster as i was first hand witness. When then the Desert Alliance with strong numbers formed in the desert and Nords claimed the same space and Byzantium and Kapikulu also, we first waged war against Nords. They but were resupplied by as far we know Byzantium/Kapikulu and i was also told by HRE(not too sure about the last part, Rogue perhaps you can clarify that?). Meanwhile our NA Friends Hospitallers scrimished Fallens, as it was the plan and our believe that they may have problems to be suddenly in the front line while they had all the time in the world to build up in the strategus before. Hospitallers and Occitan did a great job there and yes sometimes when it got close they got resupplied by their EU Friends as happened vice versa, that is the nice thing about an alliance you don't really care that much who has what aslong everyone gets something.

We succeeded with "our" plans! The only clan involved there which didn't earn what was coming at them were and still is in my eyes Kapikulu and i will repay them this strategus.

And if Canary and Phantom Zero would have be a bit more willing to cooperate, after Fallen/HRE/GK/Nords/Kapikulu/... were taken care of in strat 3.0 and also a bit more clan disciplin on hopsitallers side as far as i remember ;) , there would have still be the chance to take the UIF on. Something afterwards Crusaders kept on working towards with me explicitly supporting it, but me not taking part in it anymore as i was exhausted then.

So Kesh, deal with it. There are alliances on NA. They even made it public, that is a good thing. Nothing worse then planing a war or an attack and you don't know what to expect ;)

Thanks kingrimm. We made it public because we wanted to be transparent, no cloak and dagger stuff. We're not declaring war on anyone and we have no plans to march on anyone yet. We made it because there were mutual things we both wanted from eachother in strat due to us being so close, and it just made the most sense. Hospitallers have always, if anything, been very honest and straight forward in their dealings with us. We appreciate that we partnered with them. I dont know why people care. KUTT really isn't as huge as people seem to be implying. We have a good number of fiefs, but we don't have a ridiculous number of active members.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Goretooth on October 02, 2012, 07:03:09 am
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Havoco on October 02, 2012, 07:09:25 am
/thread
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Bobthehero on October 02, 2012, 07:26:50 am
Just posting there for my drama fix.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Kreczor on October 02, 2012, 07:49:06 am
woah woah woah slow the thread down (i didnt read any of this shit)

Huseby is a representative of hospitaller? What in the actual fuck, I didn't think it could get any worse but the shit keeps piling up.

I started looking for that "this post represents kreczor and only kreczor and not chaos" but its taking too long and im tired so simply put, this is my opinion.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: arowaine on October 02, 2012, 08:41:41 am
Can we just make one badass mega NA alliance and fck up EU?

When hospitaller(occitan in at that time) decide to stop letting na get wiped like tkov from union and chaos from drz(well we let them finish them almost completle) and made a bloc against uif after a short moment  of time when they all recover most DROP hospitaller.... chaos first,tkov followed ,fidlgb , some rest of fcc who were doing something in strat (at that time fcc went inactive they quit the game a while ago), kuut was doing their own things and the rest dont even need to be mentioned either to small or no enghout information about them.several faction who wanted no eu in na or either those eu who wanted to go back on eu territory stayed with hospitaller/templar bloc. kapikulu, some how merc,astralis, nh.........wolf(inactive), cotg(small),pecores(not existing).Some missing sorry about it.

so yeah basicly hospitaller, crusader alliance went to  protect all the na (at that time they were  almost the only one to have something  to defend against eu invasion from the so call uif)

everyone know alliance never last to long for several reason na was a great example. most people said ho this is getting boring let forget the main goal and fuck someone up in the back while they help us.

this is my personal view of it.
btw occitan just get walk over on eu dessert against hre fallen gk templar sb stormgrade and maybe some other with 2 fief we were able to first took of their fief at the begining and keep a decent figthing even with ping disavantage and low economie compare to that mega alliance. We had merc help tougth from several faction who has comflic against them aswell. We arent complaning about getting wiped or anything im just saying any faction should have a goal and try to make it. now we move on and working somewhere eles

that being said for the fcc if you are really worry about that kuut/hosp alliance feel free to make yours. everyone have theirs anyways look tkov hoc and mb together making a empire. as huge as the northen empire use to be almost :)

btw canary for the large na map keep in mind there is like 40 occitan missing on it atm i count 10 on na side alread. so yeah maybe the map is to large for all of you without us in hehhe.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: TugBoat on October 02, 2012, 08:54:32 am
This drama is dumb. Lets just be friends and play the game.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Huey Newton on October 02, 2012, 08:59:59 am
arowaine change your avatar mate.
It'll do you good.
Trust me
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Spanish on October 02, 2012, 09:01:00 am
Huey you lost your right to post after lordark owned you.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Rhalzo on October 02, 2012, 09:11:37 am
Huey you lost your right to post after lordark owned you.

Heh. Wait, complete sentences are required in the diplomacy section. There was my complete sentence and no longer a one liner.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Goretooth on October 02, 2012, 09:25:36 am
arowaine change your avatar mate.
It'll do you good.
Trust me
is there an FCC quitter avatar out there?
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Huey Newton on October 02, 2012, 09:49:19 am
is there an FCC quitter avatar out there?

I tried searching for one but I kept disconnecting every minute  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lordark on October 02, 2012, 10:27:47 am
Hey  guys were having fun now right? If you cant handle the fire get out of Calradia!

Your gonna win or your gonna loose its a game not real life so take it all with grain of delicious tear salt!

Im glad that were getting all hyped up (or not) about war and that our steam group has spies and clans are being super secret about thier alliances etc etc its fun!

War is coming and its gonna be great so every one get ready! Im not the Grand Chancellor of Hospitallerz nor am I its King! Im justa Lord/Baron type and I like to express my opinion with you good people of Calradia.

I've begged Matey in strat 2 to let us keep one castle since he used to be a Hospitaller and we were betrayed by our so called MEGA ALLIANCE of ATS and TS and he told me' I cant help you man' so you know what Matey? Its strat 4 so um yeah thats something for you to know what IM thinking about.

I wont forgive nor forget that one, yeah folks a little slice of drama for y'alls. Talk in one ear and out the other. I let actions decide my choices not this petty talk. Let NA Calradia burn in the face of our Righteous Anger! Let the war of NA finally be true and not tarnished by EU interference! Death and Glory to us all!!!!

GOD WILLS IT!

Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Vibe on October 02, 2012, 10:58:00 am
NA UIF before strat even took off :lol:
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Kreczor on October 02, 2012, 03:29:36 pm
Hey  guys were having fun now right? If you cant handle the fire get out of Calradia!

Your gonna win or your gonna loose its a game not real life so take it all with grain of delicious tear salt!

Im glad that were getting all hyped up (or not) about war and that our steam group has spies and clans are being super secret about thier alliances etc etc its fun!

War is coming and its gonna be great so every one get ready! Im not the Grand Chancellor of Hospitallerz nor am I its King! Im justa Lord/Baron type and I like to express my opinion with you good people of Calradia.

I've begged Matey in strat 2 to let us keep one castle since he used to be a Hospitaller and we were betrayed by our so called MEGA ALLIANCE of ATS and TS and he told me' I cant help you man' so you know what Matey? Its strat 4 so um yeah thats something for you to know what IM thinking about.

I wont forgive nor forget that one, yeah folks a little slice of drama for y'alls. Talk in one ear and out the other. I let actions decide my choices not this petty talk. Let NA Calradia burn in the face of our Righteous Anger! Let the war of NA finally be true and not tarnished by EU interference! Death and Glory to us all!!!!

GOD WILLS IT!

Most of this post should be ignored because it seems that a 12 year old wrote it. Coping with losses is a tough milestone to cross, holding a grudge is something a child would do. Also your in and outs of using proper grammar is quite fucking annoying, either shit talk and don't try and act diplomatic or shit talk and stay diplomatic. You are a terrible poster.

"this post does not represent blah blah only kreczor"
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: BaleOhay on October 02, 2012, 03:41:24 pm
Should we take that as the official war proclamation.. or u just hate matey?... is it because he is Canadian?
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 02, 2012, 03:45:27 pm
I could lock the thread since it's served it's purpose...

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on October 02, 2012, 03:49:42 pm
NO, NO I THINK IT SHOULD STAY UNLOCKED

THIS IS ALL VERY IMPORTANT

AND YES, THIS IS MY IN CHARACTER, ROLEPLAYING VOICE. JOE YELLS.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: ednos on October 02, 2012, 05:25:49 pm
War
KUTT v SWF

Not much of a war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Zanzibar_War), but fun nonetheless. (KUTT had better watch for IEDs on Tom's bridges.)
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: TurmoilTom on October 02, 2012, 06:03:23 pm
Not much of a war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Zanzibar_War), but fun nonetheless. (KUTT had better watch for IEDs on Tom's bridges.)

I am going to eat your firstborn child.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Keshian on October 02, 2012, 06:06:18 pm
this is my personal view of it.
btw occitan just get walk over on eu dessert against hre fallen gk templar sb stormgrade and maybe some other with 2 fief we were able to first took of their fief at the begining and keep a decent figthing even with ping disavantage and low economie compare to that mega alliance. We had merc help tougth from several faction who has comflic against them aswell. We arent complaning about getting wiped or anything im just saying any faction should have a goal and try to make it. now we move on and working somewhere eles

that being said for the fcc if you are really worry about that kuut/hosp alliance feel free to make yours. everyone have theirs anyways look tkov hoc and mb together making a empire. as huge as the northen empire use to be almost :)

btw canary for the large na map keep in mind there is like 40 occitan missing on it atm i count 10 on na side alread. so yeah maybe the map is to large for all of you without us in hehhe.


Hey, welcome back to NA Occitan!

Also, Lordark.  Really?? You are still dwelling and obsessed with something that happened a year and a half ago in 2 strat versions back??!??  Really?  I have already forgotten about it long since, so has Matey.  All I can say is - I pity you.

Also, I don't hold any grudges with any clan at the moment because I was gone from Strategus for 9 months and I don't carry things with me like that.  I do at the moment disagree with the idea of already trying to create huge alliances in NA side instead of actually playing the game with risks of loss like in Strat 1.0 at the beginning.  We have a chance to have a nice fresh board because so much of the large alliances were linked to EU and most clans are reasonably sized so we can all have a lot of fun.

Mostly I just feel rather disappointed in both clans that they do this in the first month of NA Strategus before ever a blow has been struck.  Why couldn't we have fluctuations of fortunes and battles back and forthand loss/gain of fiefs like in early Strat 1.0 before you have to pull this crap and unite the entire Western 1/3rd of the map into one gigantic alliance.   :(

P.S.  I know some of this was KUTT - they were desperately seeking an alliance first with us to attack Hospitallers and now Hospitallers against us.  I know they are afraid of having 2 decently sized clans on either side of them owning castles in areas they want to claim, but this is such a boring way to handle it.  Stand on your own 2 feet.  FCC has lost all its fiefs multiple times in Strat 1.0 and once in Strat 2.0 because we faced stronger enemies than us and took risks, but we also destroyed empires too and every one of our members would say they had a lot of fun, far more than they would have in any other clan - certainly more than in timid clans that only enter wars when they vastly outnumber their opponents in gear, troops, mercs, and gold.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 02, 2012, 06:14:23 pm
Should we take that as the official war proclamation.. or u just hate matey?... is it because he is Canadian?

Lordark said: "War is coming and its gonna be great so every one get ready! Im not the Grand Chancellor of Hospitallerz nor am I its King! Im justa Lord/Baron type and I like to express my opinion with you good people of Calradia."

He doesn't speak for Hospitaller's as a whole, his opinion would be his alone.  Just like most people on the forums posting.  Including myself unless I say I'm speaking in capacity or on behalf of the Hospitallers.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Thax on October 02, 2012, 07:01:55 pm
This thread is so full of fine whine! Wah youre not playing the way we think you should play....  Wah Im disappointed LOL.... But but but were not going to attack anyone. LMFAO

I love this thread.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Malaclypse on October 02, 2012, 07:07:05 pm
I, and not my faction, hereby declare war on Lordark but only Lordark and not his faction.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Rikthor on October 02, 2012, 07:13:21 pm
Most of this post should be ignored because it seems that a 12 year old wrote it. Coping with losses is a tough milestone to cross, holding a grudge is something a child would do. Also your in and outs of using proper grammar is quite fucking annoying, either shit talk and don't try and act diplomatic or shit talk and stay diplomatic. You are a terrible poster.

"this post does not represent blah blah only kreczor"

Kreczor, I believe you were looking for something like this "The views expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of, and should not be attributed to, the LLJK Faction, the CHAOS Faction, the Green Machine, the Green Movement, or the USA Faction."
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: BaleOhay on October 02, 2012, 07:18:49 pm
I, and not my faction, hereby declare war on Lordark but only Lordark and not his faction.

I will ally with just u for this mala.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 02, 2012, 07:21:39 pm
I did it last strat...Shik attacked an Astralis village, and the next day Remnant (who Shik was a member of) declared they were neutral in the war between Hospitaller and friends vs Chaos/TKoV and friends. 

I said that's fine, I'm not going to war with Remnant (unless they want to take it as an act of war) but I was attacking Shik to reclaim the equipment from his plundering the village, and as retribution for his crimes against the village.  I rp'ed that I was attempting to arrest him.

However, if someone were to attack a member of the Knights Hospitaller, it would most likely be taken as an act of war against the whole faction. 
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Kreczor on October 02, 2012, 07:23:17 pm
Kreczor, I believe you were looking for something like this "The views expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of, and should not be attributed to, the LLJK Faction, the CHAOS Faction, the Green Machine, the Green Movement, or the USA Faction."
crpg.txt
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Gristle on October 02, 2012, 08:45:12 pm
I, and not my faction, hereby declare war on Lordark but only Lordark and not his faction.

You have my (cross)bow!
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Spanish on October 02, 2012, 08:54:43 pm
You really think you can take lordark on with his tribuild of awesomeness!? He owned on hooey and now he will own you guys too, no one can stand up to his build. Which reminds me what is your build lordark, are you still HA, 1h, lancer man with some throwing?
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: TugBoat on October 02, 2012, 09:00:39 pm
I still don't understand why people are upset over the alliance.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Knute on October 02, 2012, 09:47:10 pm
What sucks about not being in a big faction or alliance is that you might have saved up for a long time to put together a well equipped army, waited for the right moment to strike or defend and then the day of the battle comes and....

(click to show/hide)

or

(click to show/hide)

... you're outnumbered.  Being part of a large faction (like UIF, Green Machine, Kuttspitallers, ect) allows people involved to play more casually since they have a bigger pool of mercs available at all hours.  When you're in a small faction or independent (like Peacebreakers and Wataga above) you can't depend on anyone showing up to help you even if your battle is in prime time and it's been well advertised.  This is a small community and it's even smaller now than when strat v.3 started, so it makes sense for people to condense into larger groups.

There should be more full rosters for evening battles too.  Even if it's cheap gear and bad ping they can be fun and good practice.  Help these EU brothers like Wataga or UDNWSFLC out!  People moan about only two alliances being available on both EU/NA, well sign up for the groups that aren't in either alliance and make them viable.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lordark on October 04, 2012, 01:46:24 am
Hey BRD (and minor vassal clans) Why don't you quit crying about Strat and DO something about it???

Like Minus my posts out of Oblivion! Feed me your down vote rage!! Become one with the Dark siiide!!!

*on a different subject*
Also to answer Knute post I try to sign up for the underdogs all the time! Im sigining up for LLJK vs Remant battle tonight even tho thier outnumbered and am gonna ask any of my buddies to do the same.

Its mostly a popularity contest in NA not like EU where you guys suck (im just kidding im only saying this to gain favor with certain people) I cant run a clan this big because Im not charismatic enough but I can

tell you that I will fight to the death to defend its honor! I also want to state to every 1 that whiping out clans form Strat is lame becuase it lowers the player base and forces every 1 to play less since there are less people to play againt like when BRD CO was taken out of strat 3 and every 1 said fuck this is boring now lets go play Skyrum! *delicious     SO yeah I try to rage less the 2 years Ive been here but HEY
no one is perfect right Huey?
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Tanken on October 04, 2012, 01:48:42 am
I'll get them started! Just downvoted you to get the ball rolling.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: TugBoat on October 04, 2012, 02:11:46 am
Hey BRD (and minor vassal clans) Why don't you quit crying about Strat and DO something about it???

Like Minus my posts out of Oblivion! Feed me your down vote rage!! Become one with the Dark siiide!!!

*on a different subject*
Also to answer Knute post I try to sign up for the underdogs all the time! Im sigining up for LLJK vs Remant battle tonight even tho thier outnumbered and am gonna ask any of my buddies to do the same.

Its mostly a popularity contest in NA not like EU where you guys suck (im just kidding im only saying this to gain favor with certain people) I cant run a clan this big because Im not charismatic enough but I can

tell you that I will fight to the death to defend its honor! I also want to state to every 1 that whiping out clans form Strat is lame becuase it lowers the player base and forces every 1 to play less since there are less people to play againt like when BRD CO was taken out of strat 3 and every 1 said fuck this is boring now lets go play Skyrum! *delicious     SO yeah I try to rage less the 2 years Ive been here but HEY
no one is perfect right Huey?

Huey is perfect!
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: kinngrimm on October 04, 2012, 03:17:12 am
....
Stand on your own 2 feet.  FCC has lost all its fiefs multiple times in Strat 1.0 and once in Strat 2.0 because we faced stronger enemies than us and took risks, but we also destroyed empires too and every one of our members would say they had a lot of fun, far more than they would have in any other clan - certainly more than in timid clans that only enter wars when they vastly outnumber their opponents in gear, troops, mercs, and gold.

.... We eventually got the impression from Rhaelys that we either had to make some deal or have CHAOS turn on us, so we ended up making the deal where we would just take some troops and gold and go elsewhere, thats when Loki suggested that we work with Fallen and DRZ against the NE... (http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/mega-alliances-who%27s-to-blame-what-to-do/msg620680/#msg620680)

So that was exactly how different to working as one huge chunk of players(call it alliance or coallition or whatever) ganging up onto a smaller enemy? Don't get me wrong, it was certainly a smart move back then, but you trying here to make people feel bad while those playing the game as they feel fit, be it even in an alliance,
doesn't seem very FREE minded to me.
======>
that's why in my opinion
<======
I still don't understand why people are upset over the alliance.

EDIT: Another thought poped into my mind, UNITED States of America, in a philosophical way spoken, couldn't you call that a huge alliance of States?
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Huey Newton on October 04, 2012, 03:44:38 am
Huey is perfect!

I'm nowhere near
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Blackzilla on October 04, 2012, 03:47:36 am
I'm nowhere near
Huey, you are beyond perfect. You are a strong, independent black women, who don't need no man in her life.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: TugBoat on October 04, 2012, 04:13:35 am
Huey, you are beyond perfect. You are a strong, independent black women, who don't need no man in her life.


agree
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Matey on October 04, 2012, 04:29:23 am
So that was exactly how different to working as one huge chunk of players(call it alliance or coallition or whatever) ganging up onto a smaller enemy? Don't get me wrong, it was certainly a smart move back then, but you trying here to make people feel bad while those playing the game as they feel fit, be it even in an alliance,
doesn't seem very FREE minded to me.
======>
that's why in my opinion
<======
EDIT: Another thought poped into my mind, UNITED States of America, in a philosophical way spoken, couldn't you call that a huge alliance of States?

well even with fallen and DRZ, we expected a real fight out of it. no one outside of the NE knew how weak they were.

also, the USA could be considered that.. but strat is not the real world. if it was, i would just ally with everyone for the benefit of all. strat is a war game, i like to think the real world isnt.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Braeden on October 04, 2012, 06:03:07 am
Quote
EDIT: Another thought poped into my mind, UNITED States of America, in a philosophical way spoken, couldn't you call that a huge alliance of States?
Kingrimm, in the real world having a massive alliance that turns into carebear friendliness where everyone prospers and no one fights is considered a good thing.  Probably not the best example.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Lordark on October 04, 2012, 06:32:14 am
atleast for this game
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: kinngrimm on October 04, 2012, 01:32:53 pm
well even with fallen and DRZ, we expected a real fight out of it. no one outside of the NE knew how weak they were.
true that

also, the USA could be considered that.. but strat is not the real world. if it was, i would just ally with everyone for the benefit of all. strat is a war game, i like to think the real world isnt.
i do understand Keshians frustration, been there and came to the conclusions in strat 2.0 to form an alliance myself in strat 3.0 Desert Alliance as in 4.0. Cold Front Alliance.

Kinngrimm, in the real world having a massive alliance that turns into carebear friendliness where everyone prospers and no one fights is considered a good thing.  Probably not the best example.
Propably not the best example ^^ otherwise we wouldn't have wars at all with that logic. Which also i wouldn't mind in RL ^^
And in a game like this here stalements are boring, and therefor just going out on the attack at some point like described by Kesh earlier no matter what happens is definetly more fun and it can stear things up so that even Empires fall and new power blocks arise. Still there is a hybris if you want to neglect others to just copy a working model to play it safe, while this has been done to some extent by the accusing party.

As we players are still human(most of us anyways ... hopefully), i guess RL and Strat is pretty close to each other in terms of human reactions, just filtered by layers of communication tools like TS or ingame chat or forum,....
Fact is you can't strongarm people into going into war with each other when they like each other, as seen with the UIF or Fallen/HRE/GK, or .... within the clans of FCC ... on a smaller scale true.

So again deal with it? Not likely only because some here didn't like the declaration of friendship between Hospitallers and Kutt can now be talked into oblivian. I just wanted to make clear that this happens on different scales by anyone who is playing strat and there is nothing we could do about it. From the game mechanic on the other hand you could try to implement measures without getting us to micro management, so that bigger Factions are balanced down to a to be defined medium sized level in terms of production and effectiveness at least. I for myself would rather have only one Castle and then just merc and get contracts from everybody to fuck shit up on the map, while seen neutral, but that is simply not possible with 2 big alliances, many small once and the need to have more places and people to get your economy running. Since strat 2.0 i wanted more colors on the map not less, so again bringing clans together into an alliance so those can share some areas and help each other out seems atm the best way to play the game.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Uumdi on October 13, 2012, 06:16:31 am
If you look at it that way you could add Chaos/PH, Remant, LLJK, Hero party, SWF to the TKOV/BRD side. Atleast this is how it was last strat. Already speculating on the matchup for the next NA Strat World War.

My predictions:

Hosp,Kutt,NH,Astralis,FPF, Chevaliers
Vs.
TKOV,FCC,Remant,Chaos,PH,LLJK,Hero party, SWF


I am deeply hurt by this assumption.  My only crime today was cooking off an extra half pound of wings and snagging a cannoli on the way out of work today.

And saying "crap" and "ass" and "damn".  I'm not supposed to swear, you see.
Title: Re: NA Diplomacy Announcement from the Knights Hospitaller
Post by: Valdian on October 14, 2012, 10:14:50 pm
It isnt a mega alliance it is two clans that  are allying  together because 2  other clans always ally against us. usualy with clans like lljk and chaos staying in the middle  untill the end then signing up agaisnt us as well