cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: callahan9119 on August 09, 2012, 04:06:49 am

Title: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: callahan9119 on August 09, 2012, 04:06:49 am
There is no need for it. There should only be points awarded based on kills, damage done to players and enemy horses. I should not be awarded points for being near an enemy who is killed by a teammate, it makes no sense. It's a fundamentally flawed decision if its only intent in to promote players clumping together. I still see the same behaviors of players, but now being passive in a group is rewarded. Also, the poor bastard who decides to undulge in horse archery is even more fucked (disclaimer: I don't play one).

I think what most players wanted was their work recognized, support characters for the damage done, even if they didn't get the kill and the guys who get that good feeling when they fucking destroy a horse and see the rider careen to his soon to be death rewarded for their actions.

Proximity based awards seemed shoehorned in, for no real purpose than whatever new multiplier that may be envisioned.

I'm shit at this game, average at best...so I stand to gain the most from proximity points, but I think they are a bad idea. I want to be awarded
"points" for the damage I do and the kills I get...I don't want arbitrarily awarded points that have no reflection on what I contributed to the fight.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Dexxtaa on August 09, 2012, 04:08:40 am
-1

You're encouraging killwhoring with your suggestion. You're going to see a huge increase in people blasting through teammates to get the kill.

Peasants will be unable to level up because by not gaining any XP from kills, they will be perpetually stuck in peasant mode, which of course, will "kill the mod"
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: callahan9119 on August 09, 2012, 04:09:43 am


Peasants will be unable to level up because by not gaining any XP from kills, they will be perpetually stuck in peasant mode, which of course, will "kill the mod"
How?

There is no change than the previous system, but actual contributions are reflected in the score.

I stated that this whole premise as it pertains to a potential new modifier system is flawed....so yes, the new system would be flawed.

The current system is fine if you ask me, I feel a scoreboard reflection is good enough.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Miley on August 09, 2012, 05:08:29 am
You can have a x5 and do nothing for your team with this system as well, so I don't get your point.

But I do agree the current system is fine.

And it's not proximity based scoring... it's proximity based experience............................. and gold..............
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Para on August 09, 2012, 07:45:20 am
Do you not realize the psychological effect that occurs when you are near more than one enemy? Just being in proximity of an enemy is an assist in a way because the enemy player has to focus on more than one player.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: dodnet on August 09, 2012, 10:54:15 am
Well a small bonus for being around is ok, as long as it stays small. I say 10-20% at max, the current 50% seem much too high.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on August 09, 2012, 11:03:02 am
-1

You're encouraging killwhoring with your suggestion. You're going to see a huge increase in people blasting through teammates to get the kill.

Peasants will be unable to level up because by not gaining any XP from kills, they will be perpetually stuck in peasant mode, which of course, will "kill the mod"

To be fare when I see a mob of infantry in a fight I do a quick head count and if it's say 3-1 I just ride my Nibels right up the clacker of the ball, I tend to come out up on points :twisted:

But yes, system is good.

Also, what about the shielder that face hugs and enemy and pins them while some kills them. Or the player that positions themselves in a threating position to cause the player fighting an ally to falter and make a mistake, both are useful, both require skill.

-----

If it went something like:

1 point for being near an enemy when they died.
2 points for dealing damage to an enemy or riden horse.
3 points for taking down a horse with a rider on it.
3 points for a kill.
25 points for being on the winning team.

Something like this could work. Nice bonus for winning the fight, nice bonus for assiting other players and protecting your "hero" players.

Oh yeah and 5000 points for a bump kill.

Re-edit totally forgot. -10 points for harming Nibels in anyway!
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Grumbs on August 09, 2012, 11:03:06 am
Depends on how the new multi system works. If people's main goal is to literally just win the round by whatever means, then some proximity based XP/gold might be OK. But if its mostly about the score you don't want people finding new ways to leach, without actually taking part in the fights, just standing around trying to survive as long as possible, getting in the way and not really contributing until you absolutely have to.

If its about encouraging team play well the people who genuinely will use team work have the incentive to do so already, the best incentive possible; do whatever is in your power to win the round, whether that means going around in groups, sacrificing yourself, hiding, retreating from impossible fights, whatever is your teams best interests is what's rewarded currently. Going around in blobs can be good, but forcing fights just for the sake of getting a few more points or standing around getting in the way could result from making gold/xp less based on simply winning rounds. I want the game to remain tactical and reward people for simply winning the round, rather than for scoring points that won't ever truly represent someone's worth anyway..you can't predetermine how to allocate points for team work, just not possible. A little reward for being in the vicinity of a kill might be OK though, just needs to be balanced with everything else
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Teeth on August 09, 2012, 11:20:01 am
Do you not realize the psychological effect that occurs when you are near more than one enemy? Just being in proximity of an enemy is an assist in a way because the enemy player has to focus on more than one player.
Exactly what I was going to say. This should not be underestimated.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Kafein on August 09, 2012, 12:29:17 pm
Tbh, sometimes people in my team even die in a manner that helps their teammates (soaking a hit for example). The simplest way to account for all the successful blocks, kicks, holded swings, and simple presences (sometimes in the way of the enemy's movement) that helped the team is the proximity score.


The advantages of the proximity bonuses far outweight the disadvantages. It also invites the peasants to participate (the best a real peasant can consistently do is distracting the enemy) rather than camping a far away spot and pissing off everybody.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: MB passionately on August 09, 2012, 12:35:32 pm
Totally excited about the new score system!

Quote
1 point for being near an enemy when they died.
2 points for dealing damage to an enemy or riden horse.
3 points for taking down a horse with a rider on it.
3 points for a kill.
25 points for being on the winning team.

A very interesting idea as well!

Apart from that, the new score system is excellent for support troopers likes hoplites or pikers (numbers of them exploded?)
for archers as well (33% archers nowadays??), also with a 2h char you can get good scores if you move along the frontline.
Of course its a disadvantage these days for the valor whores, the guys that dont help the team and try to stay alive until the end, fuck them anyway, their mostly attention grabbers

Proximity system helps to improve teamplay, rewards the saving of a teammate but helps low level players as well to get their share. The numbers of archers went through the ceiling some time before the change took place




Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 09, 2012, 01:39:58 pm
Horse archery is even more fucked (disclaimer: I don't play one).

(Not just focusing on HA) However any support class is going to be severly impacted by the new score system yes. Including, throwers, horse archers, archers and even some agi-whores. Proximity as dodnet says should only be about 10-20% but even then if your not with the main group then your going to start feeling the effects of that.

Yes some may say 'but it encourages teamwork'. Wheres the teamwork when people are swinging like mad to get an assist hit or/and to get the kills, this new system will not change the mentality of some players who are solely kill based rather than teamplay. Now i dont know about you NA guys, but i already fear the Kapikulu on my team but when were all bunched up i mean......nice win to the other side
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Oberyn on August 09, 2012, 01:42:59 pm
Well, what worries me personally is that the devs have said they plan to do away with the current gold/xp gain system, including multipliers. I am guessing the score system is a precursor to this change, meaning gold/xp will eventually be tied to it. So basically going back to the old proximity based system with dmg dealing also taken into account.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Rhekimos on August 09, 2012, 01:46:15 pm
Well, what worries me personally is that the devs have said they plan to do away with the current gold/xp gain system, including multipliers. I am guessing the score system is a precursor to this change, meaning gold/xp will eventually be tied to it. So basically going back to the old proximity based system with dmg dealing also taken into account.

I wonder how killhungry that will make everyone. Maybe even the XP BARN will make a comeback.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 09, 2012, 01:48:04 pm
This proximity system is a good thing in my opinion. The reason is, like Oberyn said, in the next gold/xp system. I'd imagine proximity score evens out the score between cavalry and infantry. Cav deals massive damage and gets good score alone with the damage, but doesn't get too big of a slice from the proximity score.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 09, 2012, 01:48:19 pm
I wonder how killhungry that will make everyone. Maybe even the XP BARN will make a comeback.
Most close quarter areas will return with mass camping, people will find previously unused areas to hide in just to get a wee bit more xp and gold

This proximity system is a good thing in my opinion. The reason is, like Oberyn said, in the next gold/xp system. I'd imagine proximity score evens out the score between cavalry and infantry. Cav deals massive damage and gets good score alone with the damage, but doesn't get too big of a slice from the proximity score.

But what about ranged, no proximity there, unless your one of the few that stick with a huge group?
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Oberyn on August 09, 2012, 01:49:55 pm
As loathe as I am to do anything nice for archers, not worried for cav so much as ranged. Like you said scoreboard shows that with present score system cav can easily do very well.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 09, 2012, 01:52:24 pm
Well good archers don't spam arrows from kilometers away so they most likely are going to be in the proximity area when they actually deal some damage.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Rhekimos on August 09, 2012, 01:55:21 pm
3 or 4 meters from the enemy is very close for an archer. That's the range for the proximity score.

I guess 12/27 or similar super-kiters could manage it regularly.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: karasu on August 09, 2012, 01:57:06 pm
Here was I thinking that the domain rename to "melee gaming" was a clue strong enough.  :lol:
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 09, 2012, 01:57:13 pm
3 or 4 meters from the enemy is very close for an archer. That's the range for the proximity score.

I guess 12/27 or similar super-kiters could manage it regularly.

So you have to be 3 or 4 meters away from the enemy? Or the gigant mob of friendlies? I imagined the proximity bonus area to be bigger.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Rhekimos on August 09, 2012, 02:00:17 pm
So you have to be 3 or 4 meters away from the enemy? Or the gigant mob of friendlies? I imagined the proximity bonus area to be bigger.

Last I heard, chadz said that it's currently 3m, but it might be increased to 4m, from the enemy taking damage. Proximity to friendlies doesn't count.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: karasu on August 09, 2012, 02:03:25 pm
Well good archers don't spam arrows from kilometers away so they most likely are going to be in the proximity area when they actually deal some damage.

Good archers know that the most efficient position on the battlefield is by flanking and keeping a safe distance (archers aren't xbowers, don't confuse things), be it by medium range, or long range, depending on the scene, and always keeping in mind the ability to support the melee group encounters. Not 3 meters from a melee jedi.

For score e-peen proposes I guess it's ok, but if proximity gets to weight on the future xp/gold gains, then the mod will be doomed by the obvious reasons, and past experiences. It is in no way, a viable measure to xp/gold gains.

Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Oberyn on August 09, 2012, 02:05:13 pm
Yeah keep in mind I'm just guessing this shit, I have no idea if devs have this planned.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 09, 2012, 02:06:57 pm
Good archers know that the most efficient position on the battlefield is by flanking and keeping a safe distance (archers aren't xbowers, don't confuse things), be it by medium range, or long range, depending on the scene, and always keeping in mind the ability to support the melee group encounters. Not 3 meters from a melee jedi.

For score e-peen proposes I guess it's ok, but if proximity gets to weight on the future xp/gold gains, then the mod will be doomed by the obvious reasons, and past experiences. It is in no way, a viable measure to xp/gold gains.

Well if it is 3m proximity xp, we will see more 'melee jedis' and less pew pews
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 09, 2012, 02:07:23 pm
Good archers know that the most efficient position on the battlefield is by flanking and keeping a safe distance (archers aren't xbowers, don't confuse things), be it by medium range, or long range, depending on the scene, and always keeping in mind the ability to support the melee group encounters. Not 3 meters from a melee jedi.

For score e-peen proposes I guess it's ok, but if proximity gets to weight on the future xp/gold gains, then the mod will be doomed by the obvious reasons, and past experiences. It is in no way, a viable measure to xp/gold gains.

Yes I know that. I just thought the proximity area was bigger, like ~20 meters or something, depending on how big the infantry mobs are (bigger mobs, bigger proximity area). That is quite optimal range, atleast what I've experienced as an archer. Best damage and you are still able to run away if things get bad.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: karasu on August 09, 2012, 02:09:21 pm
Well if it is 3m proximity xp, we will see more 'melee jedis' and less pew pews

You won't see pewpew's at all. Or simple pure STR pewpews with PD 999 and Longbows.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Rhekimos on August 09, 2012, 02:12:59 pm
Good archers know that the most efficient position on the battlefield is by flanking and keeping a safe distance (archers aren't xbowers, don't confuse things), be it by medium range, or long range, depending on the scene, and always keeping in mind the ability to support the melee group encounters. Not 3 meters from a melee jedi.

For score e-peen proposes I guess it's ok, but if proximity gets to weight on the future xp/gold gains, then the mod will be doomed by the obvious reasons, and past experiences. It is in no way, a viable measure to xp/gold gains.

I agree. If the score based xp and gold is good enough, it becomes a tragedy of the commons situation.

Help the team win or get massive xp and gold from lingering in the melee.

If enough archers choose the xp, the team will do much worse.

If the round victory multiplier is done away with completely, it's obviously best to choose the xp, because there's no downside. Unless the losing team gets no xp and gold.

You won't see pewpew's at all. Or simple pure STR pewpews with PD 999 and Longbows.

They are not that good at close range. Just kiting near the melee will guarantee score with relative safety.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Savior_of_Death on August 09, 2012, 02:16:34 pm
Honestly I don't know what the fuck the god damn developers are trying to do with this game anymore...
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 09, 2012, 02:40:27 pm
Honestly I don't know what the fuck the god damn developers are trying to do with this game anymore...
Well obviously they are trying to develop it :wink:
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Phew on August 09, 2012, 02:40:54 pm
Siege needs unique scoring though. Proximity scoring is fine, but it should be proximity to siege objectives (flag, gate controls, etc) that matters, not proximity to wherever the zerg happens to be fighting.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Savior_of_Death on August 09, 2012, 02:49:43 pm
Well obviously they are trying to develop it :wink:
The wrong way
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: dodnet on August 09, 2012, 02:52:01 pm
Well, what worries me personally is that the devs have said they plan to do away with the current gold/xp gain system, including multipliers. I am guessing the score system is a precursor to this change, meaning gold/xp will eventually be tied to it. So basically going back to the old proximity based system with dmg dealing also taken into account.

This... I don't mind about my e-peen-score (well ok, a bit, I admit :mrgreen:) as long as its only a visible bonus but if the multiplier is bound to it  :|
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: MrShine on August 09, 2012, 03:01:34 pm
I think it all depends on what the end goal of the points system is.

Is it a way to reward the players who have the most impact on the outcome of a battle, IE is it supposed to simulate the battle presence of a player?  If that is the intent, then I do not agree with proximity based scoring.  It will over-favor conservative & defensive melee players, while lone wolf & ranged players (and to an extent buttackstabbing cav) will not be rewarded for their effectiveness appropriately. 

If the intent of the change is to change battle strategies to encourage/force a more congested group fight, then it makes sense that proximity scoring is used but I question the merit of the system to try and force a gameplay style on the players.  It's already well known that teamwork & stick-togetherness are key to winning a round, but I like how people can fill other roles and still be effective without joining "the blob". 

I do agree that a big group of players can be intimidating even if it doesn't include incredibly skilled players, but you can both help and hurt your team by being close, either through clogging up attacks by being in the way or getting glanced off of by teammates, or poorly timing attacks so that a teammate is expecting a blow to land that doesn't come, and they end up taking the hit.

Basically my point is being with the group can both help or hurt your team (just like pretty much anything) and therefore I don't think it deserves to be a focus on point (and in the future gold/xp) collection over other things like assist kills and damage of high priority targets.  I have a thread with my suggestion at http://forum.meleegaming.com/game-balance-discussion/let%27s-expand-on-the-new-point-system!/ .

But like I said - if this is an attempt to change the way people play... go for it I guess, but I think it's a bad idea.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: bonekuukkeli on August 09, 2012, 03:06:16 pm
I see huge increase of running agi archers coming to this game. You really want it that bad?
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: slimpyman on August 09, 2012, 03:07:21 pm
There is no need for it. There should only be points awarded based on kills, damage done to players and enemy horses. I should not be awarded points for being near an enemy who is killed by a teammate, it makes no sense. It's a fundamentally flawed decision if its only intent in to promote players clumping together. I still see the same behaviors of players, but now being passive in a group is rewarded. Also, the poor bastard who decides to undulge in horse archery is even more fucked (disclaimer: I don't play one).

I think what most players wanted was their work recognized, support characters for the damage done, even if they didn't get the kill and the guys who get that good feeling when they fucking destroy a horse and see the rider careen to his soon to be death rewarded for their actions.

Proximity based awards seemed shoehorned in, for no real purpose than whatever new multiplier that may be envisioned.

I'm shit at this game, average at best...so I stand to gain the most from proximity points, but I think they are a bad idea. I want to be awarded
"points" for the damage I do and the kills I get...I don't want arbitrarily awarded points that have no reflection on what I contributed to the fight.

how about play to win, and not worry about your score.   i may not always be at the top of the boards, but my team wins. thats all that matters, really.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Kafein on August 09, 2012, 03:09:48 pm
Well, what worries me personally is that the devs have said they plan to do away with the current gold/xp gain system, including multipliers. I am guessing the score system is a precursor to this change, meaning gold/xp will eventually be tied to it. So basically going back to the old proximity based system with dmg dealing also taken into account.

Even in the current score system proximity doesn't matter that much. Also, virtually anything would be better than the multiplier system we have now.

With the probable exception of everything Paul came up with :P like the x0-x4 multiplier.


I say that because the multiplier system is imo what ruined the game's friendly pre-january atmosphere. Now we all are a bunch of competitive minmaxing jerks exactly like the communities of bazillions of FPS and RTS games. Splitting our time between calculating our best build, raging about failures and bragging about victories.

Victory shouldn't be the only thing that matters. Actually, fun should. Being competitive is only a part of that.


Finally, I remember chadz suggested the score would influence gold & xp. This in no way means gold & xp will be determined based on proximity, as score is more about damage, at least right now, and can be tweaked very easily anyway. Also, team victory/defeat will likely still have a notable influence of gold & xp.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Oberyn on August 09, 2012, 03:15:10 pm
The competitive atmosphere was there from the start, it's one of the things that drew me in, and I'm guessing at least some other people as well. People have a tendency to put on role-colored glasses, it could just be that the game was still fresh in your eyes at that time, and the community smaller.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Swaggart on August 09, 2012, 03:29:48 pm
While I really don't like the multi system, it does allow for different types of play styles, like Shine said.

Also, being scored for proximity means its actually easier to leech than with the multi system. All you need to do is follow a group, contribute nothing and you get rewarded more than a crappy x1. On one map I went off on a flank got 4 kills in one round and found myself in the bottom third accordring to points. Next round I followed the mob, got maybe one or two slashes in because of the constant worry about slashing a teammate and found myself in the top third. I don't see how I was a bigger contribution.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 09, 2012, 03:51:49 pm
While I really don't like the multi system, it does allow for different types of play styles, like Shine said.

Also, being scored for proximity means its actually easier to leech than with the multi system. All you need to do is follow a group, contribute nothing and you get rewarded more than a crappy x1. On one map I went off on a flank got 4 kills in one round and found myself in the bottom third accordring to points. Next round I followed the mob, got maybe one or two slashes in because of the constant worry about slashing a teammate and found myself in the top third. I don't see how I was a bigger contribution.

Strength build were underpowered so they needed a buff, this is what they got.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: dodnet on August 09, 2012, 03:53:41 pm
how about play to win, and not worry about your score.   i may not always be at the top of the boards, but my team wins. thats all that matters, really.

You missed the point. Thats fine with the current multi system, its pure visual nothing more. But if the system really gets changed to a score based multi system, its NOT pure visual and e-peen!
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: dodnet on August 09, 2012, 03:58:01 pm
I say that because the multiplier system is imo what ruined the game's friendly pre-january atmosphere. Now we all are a bunch of competitive minmaxing jerks exactly like the communities of bazillions of FPS and RTS games. Splitting our time between calculating our best build, raging about failures and bragging about victories.

Victory shouldn't be the only thing that matters. Actually, fun should. Being competitive is only a part of that.

Remove the score board, multi and leveling completely and I swear you half to all of the players will quit and never come back. There has to be a kind of competition or its boring. This is not Wendy's Pony Paradise, this is WAR!
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Penitent on August 09, 2012, 04:31:54 pm
Being near an enemy obviously helps fight and kill him.  I'm not too sure people think before they make suggestions like this...

I've played shielder several gens.  Blocking, pinning, distracting an enemy, and absorbing blows ALL contribute towards killing an enemy.  By giving support players like this some points, you encourage team play and sacrifice plays.

Same thing for manual blocking some guy while your teamie stabs him in the back...or standing next to the enemy with a held attack, making him focus on your while youfriends cut him down.  All these types of activities are useful and should be rewarded.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Toodles on August 09, 2012, 04:42:45 pm
I think the proximity system is good, but rewards for individuals should be higher - when my team has a strong mob I'll often take on the burden of harassing archers, keeping a bunch of them focused on me rather than shooting my teammates - this seldom results in many kills but most definitely has an impact on the outcome, even if I only end up killing one, or none.
Now this is fine with the current multi system in that the score means shit, but if indeed it gets tied to my multiplicator I'd like some return on the risks I take for my guys.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Swaggart on August 09, 2012, 04:57:12 pm
I've played shielder several gens.  Blocking, pinning, distracting an enemy, and absorbing blows ALL contribute towards killing an enemy.  By giving support players like this some points, you encourage team play and sacrifice plays.

Same thing for manual blocking some guy while your teamie stabs him in the back...or standing next to the enemy with a held attack, making him focus on your while youfriends cut him down.  All these types of activities are useful and should be rewarded.

And they were rewarded equally as the guy that killed 7 or 8 people: a multi increase. People seem to think that with the multi system, a kill and a great KDR was the reward when it was actually the multi.

I'm not defending the multi system, I absolutely hated it when I am stuck on a x1 thanks to herpaderp balance. And I also realize the points system is not set in stone and will probably go under further tweaking. Just saying what I think.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 09, 2012, 05:00:03 pm
Keep multi system and give bonus xp/gold for score.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Leshma on August 09, 2012, 05:00:29 pm
I just see bunch of people who didn't play old cRPG crying how proximity rewards suck.

No they don't, they are awesome.

XP barn ftw!
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 09, 2012, 05:02:45 pm
I just see bunch of people who didn't play old cRPG crying how proximity rewards suck.

No they don't, they are awesome.

XP barn ftw!

Newfriends don't know about XP barn
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Swaggart on August 09, 2012, 05:03:20 pm
Except I did play old crpg.

Funny how assumptions make you look like a jackass, don't they? Or does this come naturally for you?
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Leshma on August 09, 2012, 05:09:53 pm
You did play old cRPG but it took you 6 months to register on forums. Yeah right...

Btw. current proximity awards are tiny. You get way more points as cav or strong archer.

Hell, I'm scoring more points by chasing cav and dehorsing them than fighting with the main crowd.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Swaggart on August 09, 2012, 05:12:15 pm
Funny how assumptions make you look like a jackass, don't they? Or does this come naturally for you?
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Leshma on August 09, 2012, 05:16:53 pm
So I'm a prick.

Do you even know the purpose of proximity based points?

They are there to allow poor souls who can't kill anyone to score and that way earn some XP and gold. Do you really want them to end up with 0 gold and 0 XP after 5 hours of playing this mod?

Who's the prick now?
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Swaggart on August 09, 2012, 05:22:09 pm
I'm pretty sure if I go 0-7 on a map I still get xp and gold. You're talking as if we are using the proximity system right now, which we are not. And since you have no idea what the future system of getting xp and gold is, you're simply making more assumptions which means you're speaking from your ass.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Leshma on August 09, 2012, 05:24:33 pm
We're not using it atm but we will use it in the future.

Currently whole score thing doesn't mean anything besides epeen contest.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 09, 2012, 05:26:03 pm
And since you have no idea what the future system of getting xp and gold is, you're simply making more assumptions which means you're speaking from your ass.

Well that means that the guys who are against proximity based system are talking out of their asses too. We don't know how the xp system is going to work so what do you say if we stop making assumptions?
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Swaggart on August 09, 2012, 05:37:06 pm
We're not using it atm but we will use it in the future.

Please show me where it is stated that it will be exclusively a proximity based system.

I think people misunderstood the point I'm trying to make. I'm not against the proximity system, I'm against it being the sole generator of gold and XP because it certainly has faults.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Turkhammer on August 09, 2012, 05:40:23 pm
Here was I thinking that the domain rename to "melee gaming" was a clue strong enough.  :lol:

Good observation :)
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Lech on August 09, 2012, 05:40:45 pm
Well, what worries me personally is that the devs have said they plan to do away with the current gold/xp gain system, including multipliers. I am guessing the score system is a precursor to this change, meaning gold/xp will eventually be tied to it. So basically going back to the old proximity based system with dmg dealing also taken into account.

They said they won't go away totally from current system. They just said that you gain x1 to x2.5 for winning/losing (analogue to current x1 to x5, i think it will be directly taken as it is)  AND additionally x0 to x3 for your score compared to your team and enemy team score.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 09, 2012, 05:40:57 pm
I'm not against the proximity system, I'm against it being the sole generator of gold and XP because it certainly has faults.

I agree on that. It most likely isn't going to be all proximity based. I'd imagine it's going to be partly score based (which includes proximity by default) with some base xp. We don't know for sure so why argue about it? :D

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Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 09, 2012, 05:42:08 pm
I just see bunch of people who didn't play old cRPG crying how proximity rewards suck.

No they don't, they are awesome.

XP barn ftw!

I played back when it was proximity to the kills, although it was thoroughly enjoyable us poor peasants at the time never really got anywhere as we were picked out of the crowd and shot down before we could really make it to what the others had become.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: chadz on August 09, 2012, 05:43:25 pm
What Lech said is correct, at least in the current version we or I have in mind. Yes, it's not perfect, but there is simply no perfect solution. This at least allows peasants to be somewhat helpful and feel rewarded by trying to help the old ones.

Also, XP barn and the like will obviously not work anymore - if everyone has a higher score, no one gains more because of that, because it's all relative.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Toodles on August 09, 2012, 05:46:45 pm
I'm not against the proximity system, I'm against it being the sole generator of gold and XP because it certainly has faults.

It does, and it won't - from what I've read (but can't be bothered to check up) the two will work in conjunction, which seems a pretty decent compromise to me.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 09, 2012, 05:47:34 pm
What Lech said is correct, at least in the current version we or I have in mind. Yes, it's not perfect, but there is simply no perfect solution. This at least allows peasants to be somewhat helpful and feel rewarded by trying to help the old ones.

Also, XP barn and the like will obviously not work anymore - if everyone has a higher score, no one gains more because of that, because it's all relative.
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Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: dodnet on August 09, 2012, 05:56:53 pm
Finally some word from the mighty donkey...  8-)
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Elindor on August 09, 2012, 06:00:06 pm
If multi in new system is based partially off result of round (winning or losing) and partially off performance, I think that will be better overall for most people. 
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Swaggart on August 09, 2012, 06:05:41 pm
I understand there's no perfect solution. As someone who's mainly infantry with an xbow alt that I use mainly on siege, it wouldn't affect me all that much. I'm just thinking of those people who's builds are designed around not being in the thick of melee, like assassins and snipers.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: San on August 09, 2012, 06:08:53 pm
The one thing I am confused about is how to reward defensive play. Shield walls, protecting archers with a pike, etc. can all be very useful to the team, and the only thing I can think of is proximity-based points near teammates who are gaining points. I think protecting those who are contributing well to a team is also contribution. This can even mean a 2h standing there in case other melee arrive.

I think one should receive more points when actually killing someone. People typically play much more defensively when they are low on health. There were times when I was 2-2 and 120 points, and 14-1 and ~106.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Angantyr on August 09, 2012, 06:14:56 pm
You did play old cRPG but it took you 6 months to register on forums. Yeah right...
Well, it can happen. I can only speak for myself, but I played the earliest versions of cRPG but didn't register until much later (as the early cRPG didn't have the competitive atmosphere that Native had back then, being heavily grind based and with a largely inexperienced playerbase a few Native vets aside).
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Kafein on August 09, 2012, 06:20:04 pm
The competitive atmosphere was there from the start, it's one of the things that drew me in, and I'm guessing at least some other people as well. People have a tendency to put on role-colored glasses, it could just be that the game was still fresh in your eyes at that time, and the community smaller.

I think I played the mod for about 4 or 5 months with the proximity system so I probably had the time to witness all it could offer, even past the "new is great" feeling. The community was smaller too and that clearly helped making it friendlier, but still. It seems to me people were playing together rather than against each other, or at least more than now. And the mod itself evolved in that direction.

With most of the difference in character levels that existed gone, now the only possible victory is killing/winning. The peasant stage ends very fast, so that people never define survival as a success, rather than killing. Surviving is only satisfactory if it happens to be difficult, which is true when there are level 43 monsters around, and is fun too, just differently. Nowadays, the only success you can ever have is being better than the others at the exact same thing, because everyone plays at the same level.

All this inevitably leads to a more aggressive atmosphere. When as a peasant you are killed by a lvl 43 monster, it's not a big deal, you weren't supposed to survive anyway. It's different when you are always supposed to be more or less able to beat your opponent.

But I've gone through this more than once already so I'll try to stop my rambling here.

Remove the score board, multi and leveling completely and I swear you half to all of the players will quit and never come back. There has to be a kind of competition or its boring. This is not Wendy's Pony Paradise, this is WAR!

Removing leveling completely is a surefire way to scare off everybody not interested in competitive play, because a good part of those people are interested in the grind (it's not me saying this, it's psychology), and there's almost nothing else in cRPG, except of course the "playing with friends" part, which is present in all multiplayer games anyway. After those people are gone, nobody will come in due to the impossible skill curve when you start a competitive game so much later, and those already playing will probably quit too since there will always be a part of them losing too much for it to be acceptable.



Anyway, the idea of a score trying to measure your whole personal contribution and influencing your income sounds very good to me, because it doesn't give any reason to rage on other players.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Elindor on August 09, 2012, 06:35:35 pm
I think one should receive more points when actually killing someone. People typically play much more defensively when they are low on health. There were times when I was 2-2 and 120 points, and 14-1 and ~106.

I agree with this san.

I am glad that the score system avoid 100% focus on the KDR but it seems now that kills are not valued at all in the system.   I feel like when the score system FIRST came out (couple days before it was patched) it seemed to be taking kills into account but offsetting those results with some other factors, but scoreboard still mostly represented most kills at top and least kills at bottom.  Now it has no such correlation as far as I can tell.  Top of team might be someone that is 1-1 with 56 points, and someone that is 8-3 might be half way down with 12 points. 
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Latrinenkobold on August 09, 2012, 07:25:46 pm
I agree with this san.

I am glad that the score system avoid 100% focus on the KDR but it seems now that kills are not valued at all in the system.   I feel like when the score system FIRST came out (couple days before it was patched) it seemed to be taking kills into account but offsetting those results with some other factors, but scoreboard still mostly represented most kills at top and least kills at bottom.  Now it has no such correlation as far as I can tell.  Top of team might be someone that is 1-1 with 56 points, and someone that is 8-3 might be half way down with 12 points.
Nah at the moment top of team wont have any score because it wont be shown if it gets too high :)
Fix this please
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Elindor on August 09, 2012, 07:39:56 pm
Also true...I have to imagine that will be fixed soon though....(crosses fingers)
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Riddaren on August 09, 2012, 07:56:22 pm
Having a proximity reward will increase teamplay, as it makes people fight closer together, while at the same time trying harder not to die.
Patience is a good thing; Eventually, you will get the opportunity to strike an enemy for free, without getting hit.

It results in players taking turns to hit, falling back behind each others and waiting for new opportunities to strike.
This is really a great thing and should not be taken away. However it needs tweaking.

There is no obvious answer to what distance is the most optimal.
However, I feel that the score needs to be at a minimum or some people will just stay close but never help as it woudln't be worth it.

A hit on an enemy or a kill needs to be the main source for getting points.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: callahan9119 on August 09, 2012, 09:38:21 pm
What Lech said is correct, at least in the current version we or I have in mind. Yes, it's not perfect, but there is simply no perfect solution. This at least allows peasants to be somewhat helpful and feel rewarded by trying to help the old ones.


What about support characters like archers, throwers, horse archers etc who will be left out of the whole proximity aspect of scoring?
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 09, 2012, 09:47:49 pm
What about support characters like archers, throwers, horse archers etc who will be left out of the whole proximity aspect of scoring?

They may not get many points in proximity, but they make up for it because their range is much longer then a sword/polearm.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Zerran on August 09, 2012, 09:55:26 pm
I actually find I do better on the scoreboard now with an xbow than I did before. Ranged hit a LOT of targets, but often only kill a small percentage of them because they can't keep hitting the same target like melee can.

Though, if it would be possible without lagging up the servers, which I doubt, it would be nice if everyone who hit a target in the last ~2 seconds would get points for assists.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: San on August 09, 2012, 10:11:02 pm
I think 'proximity' should be based on those making points, including archers (and those who are covering them) and cav. Kills should also count a bit more to help those who like to flank alone or in small groups. The ones actually killing will get the most points, while defensive support players get some points until they can act on it and stop cav/infantry.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Micah on August 09, 2012, 11:31:15 pm
Yes, it's not perfect, but there is simply no perfect solution. This at least allows peasants to be somewhat helpful and feel rewarded by trying to help the old ones.

There is no perfect solution ?

Well one question then , how "good" is the best solution we can get (one of the optimal solutions ) ? How "good" will we be able to judge a player , how much WORTH a player has ?  Allowing a peasant to feel somewhat helpful and rewarded IS a kind intention but it is by far no major issue, or is it ?
Can we get to a grade of "good" to justify basing the XP/Gold gain on it ? Even if its a Hybrid style of Multiplyer+Scorebased solution which only attenuates the error the score formular makes : i believe that it would be still by far to unjust to base upon ! It can only include : Damage dealt and Proximity right now ... best case it includes prevented damage. How far can us get this ?.

Another question : If we had a perfect (just) formular judging like a veteran military professor. What would we have ? Some number for each player to be curious about ... because he has no clue about how he got it, he would have to be this veteran miitary professor  too understand it. Because : noone here is a tactical ace and the teamplay sux balls mostly because it is not supported much by the game ! It would ofcourse be just to distribute XP/Gold related to this WORTH of a player using the shapley distribution function for cooperative games. But its also wouldnt make sense because this is no military tactical game, its a cooperative PvP hack'n'Slay with about none tactical support, features and tools and least of us are soldiers too. As well as the least part of the community is interrested in discussing tactical envolvement of the game (i can tell i made serveral threads about it ).
You want tactics ? Support tactics !
You want roleplay ? Support roleplay!
You want to prevent leeching ? Prevent leeching !
You want E-Peen ? Gtfo =P

And another question: Whats about the Fun? Whats with variety of ways to play the game ? The Ninjas, Assassins, Farmers, Noblemen, Barbars, Ladies, Masseurs of Ladies. Its the extremes who define the variety not the usual 90% Knights. They too add to the worth of the game, they are worth what they are worth ... i mean , they are funny and different.

And the last question: What does it change in the end ? Does anyone really believe that this score number will change the intentions with whome people are playing the game or the way they WANT to play the game ? Even more : Should it change the way people are playing the game  ? Should it penalize and reward playstyles and players in this very imperfect , uncapable, unjust way it is right now and will propably stay ? Do we want to be forced to play according to a formula ?

Why would we want that ? Why would we need that ?

I do not know . Please tell me  =(
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Pandemona on August 09, 2012, 11:39:04 pm
Let's admit that, kill whoring was better than score whoring, why should i headshot enemy archers when i can get more points by wounding cavalry's horses ?
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Riddaren on August 09, 2012, 11:43:41 pm
(click to show/hide)

You got some good points. I agree.

Anyway, about the perfect solution:
It is when the one who contributed most to his team gets the highest score.
Because if we should focus on something it's got to be the teamplay.

With this new score system, we have already fixed a lot of problems we had previously.
I believe and hope it will be better and better; that is rewarding actual team contribution.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Riddaren on August 09, 2012, 11:45:58 pm
Let's admit that, kill whoring was better than score whoring, why should i headshot enemy archers when i can get more points by wounding horses ?

I do agree, killing an archer should give you more points than wounding a horse.
However, it shouldn't matter at all if it's a headshot or anything else.

It won't help your team more if you killed the archer with a headshot than an arrow to his knee.
Score should be based on team contribution. Not fancy ways of killing someone. IMO.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Pandemona on August 09, 2012, 11:49:52 pm
I do agree, killing an archer should give you more points than wounding a horse.
However, it shouldn't matter at all if it's a headshot or anything else.

It won't help your team more if you killed the archer with a headshot than an arrow to his knee.
Score should be based on team contribution. Not fancy ways of killing someone. IMO.


If you kill someone with headshot, they won't have chance to kill other players in team while you reload your xbow again, so i think it does support.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Leshma on August 09, 2012, 11:53:52 pm
Headshots should be x3 and headshits x2 regular hit points, on top of damage they do. Buff for shielders and precise archers.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Pandemona on August 09, 2012, 11:56:58 pm
Also, as ranged i cba to fight near of the enemy or our melee players, since i'm ''ranged''. But i want to have high scores, so what i'm going to do ? With this score system i'm not supporting my team well if you look at the scoreboard, because i'm so far to my team.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Corsair831 on August 09, 2012, 11:59:42 pm
Also, as ranged i cba to fight near of the enemy or our melee players, since i'm ''ranged''. But i want to have high scores, so what i'm going to do ? With this score system i'm not supporting my team well if you look at the scoreboard, because i'm so far to my team.

shoot horses
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Pandemona on August 10, 2012, 12:00:52 am
shoot horses


It's hard to find horses in siege :P
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Micah on August 10, 2012, 12:02:00 am
Also, as ranged i cba to fight near of the enemy or our melee players, since i'm ''ranged''. But i want to have high scores, so what i'm going to do ? With this score system i'm not supporting my team well if you look at the scoreboard, because i'm so far to my team.
one could invent class based proximity :
for archers/xbow = 30meters
cav = 10 meters
melee footmen = 3 meters
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Latrinenkobold on August 10, 2012, 12:03:27 am
Headshots should be x3 and headshits x2 regular hit points, on top of damage they do. Buff for shielders and precise archers.
Head shits???
Also i agree with micah
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 10, 2012, 12:04:06 am

It's hard to find horses in siege :P

Is it too hard to hit people climbing ladders in siege with masterwork arbalest? :wink:

one could invent class based proximity :
for archers/xbow = 30meters
cav = 10 meters
melee footmen = 3 meters

I like that idea, but I think cav can manage without the proximity bonus. Would make sense though, because cav presence is one helluva big factor even if they don't actually engage the enemy.

Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Pandemona on August 10, 2012, 12:06:37 am
Is it too hard to hit people climbing ladders in siege with masterwork arbalest? :wink:

For me (talking about strategus) killing enemy archers is more useful, since they're more dangerous for me and most of my team.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 10, 2012, 12:13:32 am
For me (talking about strategus) killing enemy archers is more useful, since they're more dangerous for me and most of my team.

Well is this xp system going to be implemented in strategus as well? (Mighty donkey could answer this)

I don't know about others but I'm having rather satisfying scores with my ranged characters (mainly played with archer alt recently). The proximity based scoring is already in the game to my understanding so what's the matter?
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: callahan9119 on August 10, 2012, 02:40:35 am
When I was on today a guy who was -1 had third place.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 10, 2012, 02:41:39 am
When I was on today a guy who was -1 had third place.

So?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Zandieer on August 10, 2012, 04:46:52 am
When I was on today a guy who was -1 had third place.

It's easy to top the scores with 0-2 kills. Shows how much you help your team, if it'd just be a K/D scoreboard, you'd look useless.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: San on August 10, 2012, 08:26:54 am
Saw Cyranule with 17-1 and 60 points.

EDIT: Should probably clarify. He was on horse, probably with only a few teammates with him. I feel that sniper/flanker classes are tougher to acquire points at the moment.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: DaveUKR on August 10, 2012, 09:32:13 am
What Lech said is correct, at least in the current version we or I have in mind. Yes, it's not perfect, but there is simply no perfect solution. This at least allows peasants to be somewhat helpful and feel rewarded by trying to help the old ones.

Also, XP barn and the like will obviously not work anymore - if everyone has a higher score, no one gains more because of that, because it's all relative.

Why do you care about peasant so much? I don't see them on the battlefield at all. There are only some players who pretend to be peasants with their lvl35 and 30 strength. If seriously, I've never seen more than 3-4 real peasants in one team since ages. And to say more - there is a dedicated server for peasants (up to lvl20), so they already have something.

There should be a different solution which will make it more interesting for new players, but taking this into account of balancing is just wrong. I don't know, give them some quests in the 1st generation maybe? It's RPG in the end. Like kill a horse with a rider - get 20k of exp, defend the virgin for 5 rounds - 20k of exp, make a goal in rageball - 20k of exp, kill an archer - get 10k of exp, survive 3 rounds in a row - 25k of exp, capture the flag on siege - 10k of exp, win a duel against someone who has higher lvl - 10k of exp, kill 20 players with 1 weapon - 30k of exp etc. Maybe you should make it more interesting, I've just suggested. It would add some goal in the game besides grind plus it will motivate players to try all the modes.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Andswaru on August 10, 2012, 09:55:01 am
They said they won't go away totally from current system. They just said that you gain x1 to x2.5 for winning/losing (analogue to current x1 to x5, i think it will be directly taken as it is)  AND additionally x0 to x3 for your score compared to your team and enemy team score.

The question that interests me the most is, were does my hard earned generation xp bonus fit into this grand scheme? A Pontential XP cap of 5500 if I am the best player on the battlefield (highly unlikely) means its going to be like grinding an alt to level up, and that in itself is a tedious enough process after you have enjoyed a larger xp amount on your main.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Leshma on August 10, 2012, 12:54:18 pm
For some reason I think that levels have something to with amount of points you get.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Tindel on August 10, 2012, 01:44:08 pm
They will probably add the exp bonus at the end of the formula
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Toodles on August 10, 2012, 01:49:11 pm
For some reason I think that levels have something to with amount of points you get.

I think this has more to do with higher levels generally being synonymous with greater amount of hit points - more damage to be dealt, more points to be gained - no?

I would of course much rather my opponent's total worth (in terms of K/D & victory/defeat ratios, level, gear value) have the greatest impact on scoring and thus the multiplicator it's tied to.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: Oberyn on August 10, 2012, 01:56:14 pm
Why do you care about peasant so much? I don't see them on the battlefield at all. There are only some players who pretend to be peasants with their lvl35 and 30 strength.

I think what is meant by "peasant" is "new player", and it takes just a few hours of play now to not look like a peasant anymore, as opposed to the trial by fire peasanthood that lasted much longer in the old days. Some guy who has just been playing for a few weeks might be relatively well equipped (not counting looms), but he can't realistically be called a peasant anymore.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 10, 2012, 05:21:32 pm
Haven't been on the forums in a few days, and I'm not reading 7 pages ...sowwy if this has already been said:

The current system doesn't even tie into XP/GOLD yet, and you already see a large increase in teamwork and people fighting in groups.  This is a good thing. As the 2nd poster in this thread said, the OP's suggestion would make even more rambo's, and solo heroes instead of people fighting as a team.

Teamwork almost always prevails when I'm in game.  One team usually is playing better as a team, and they win 99% of the time.  If this system tied into XP/Gold, I think you'd see even more/better teamwork.  It really is a welcome sight for someone playing this mod for 1.5 years, to finally see a decent amount of teamwork.

The only other time I saw teamwork this good, was on open plains and steppe maps, where you had to rely on teammates to stay alive and to be able to counter everything the enemy threw at you.

P.S.  Now going back to read the thread :P

*EDIT*

A good re-occurring point I keep seeing is how this (if tied into xp/gold) will affect archers.  As it stands cavalry doesn't generally benefit from the proximity factor, but they riding faster and getting a speed bonus deals more damage than on the ground (typically) so they are able to get more points per hit on an enemy.  This system is better for archers than before (IMO) just due to the fact they can get points for hitting people from far away.  But it does seem like archers will be hit hardest if we use the score system to determine XP/gold.

I personally really liked seeing the influx of archers in NA the last few days, it's really been missing. And I say this as a cavalry player, who absolutely hates enemy archers...but honestly, any decent army should have a good amount of archers, and you really see how devastating they can be when they are in numbers, and with the proper support.
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: PieParadox on August 11, 2012, 07:43:17 am
This was implemented again??

And you guys talk about the psychological advantage by having a teammate when fighting a lone enemy? Being that lone enemy just makes me try harder!

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
Post by: kongxinga on August 13, 2012, 12:50:12 am
Do you not realize the psychological effect that occurs when you are near more than one enemy? Just being in proximity of an enemy is an assist in a way because the enemy player has to focus on more than one player.

Agreed, but the proximity for HA or archers could be wider to account for the fact a HA who is shooting at the player from the rear is giving him another thing to worry about. And you can't block nothing from the rear.