cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Shamlow on April 24, 2012, 07:41:19 pm

Title: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 24, 2012, 07:41:19 pm
Seriously, it's about the worst thing in any game ever. It's nothing but a money sink, which seems unimportant in this game. Not to mention, sometimes I have to pay upkeep sometimes I don't. I've played and gotten it 4-5 matches in a row, and other times I've played 20 matches and never gotten it.

Seriously, what the fuck.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: dynamike on April 24, 2012, 07:47:30 pm
Seriously, it's nothing but a money sink, which seems unimportant to mention.

Seriously, what the fuck.

First poster ever to conclude his own thread in the OP. Congrats!
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 24, 2012, 07:50:42 pm
It's so that not everyone runs around the server on a cataphract horse in full plate mail.  If you are using 20,000 gold worth of gear or less you will make a lot of money.  If you are using 40-50k gold worth of gear you will lose a lot of money (over a generation).

After you retire at level 31 you get an heirloom point which can be used to improve one of your pieces of equipment.  A good suggestion would be to sell this point for about 600k gold, and then buy a +1 heirloomed item for 400-500k gold (and make 100-200k profit).  Then you wont' have to worry about money as much.

Your first generation is the most difficult with having to buy all your gear and worry about having enough money to actually use it once you buy it.  You'll most likely be a peasant most of your first generation.  or expect to go with your normal equipment, and then when you get poor play as a peasant and build up 10k gold (won't take long with cheap gear on).

But seriously, before you made a rage thread, you honestly didn't try to play devil's advocate and come up with any reasons why upkeep is in the game?  Seriously?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Tristan on April 24, 2012, 07:59:03 pm
First poster ever to conclude his own thread in the OP. Congrats!

This :D
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: bukva2 on April 24, 2012, 08:31:49 pm
Im loosing a lot of money it seems, my upkeep is a bit below 2k and each round i need to repair for about 500, so unless im in the wining team with a good multiplier im losing money :<.
What should i do as a new player? I thought siege and battle is a good way to farm, seems like i was wrong :<
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: bukva2 on April 24, 2012, 08:38:18 pm
Im wearing Strange light Armor/boots/mask, Nodachi, wakizashi and a cheap shield :<

but if thats too much, how come too often i see ppl with top eq and full plates all the time, how do they pay for it?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Polobow on April 24, 2012, 08:42:03 pm
The higher your WPF, the less you repair. If you hybridize, you will theoratically pay more often, since you have to put both points into 2H or 1H.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: bukva2 on April 24, 2012, 08:46:46 pm
lol, one weapon with over 1k upkeep and a 7k one hander. stop this madness, one weapon should be enough.

I have enough money on my bank to run around in my best equipment all the time, selling loompoints is the key.

Not sure i understand the loom system, something about retirement at certain lvl i hear,
Also, what does this mean: "36h 30b 29l" I see it in the gear section above Armor word.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Bob_Ross on April 24, 2012, 08:48:51 pm
Not sure i understand the loom system, something about retirement at certain lvl i hear,
Also, what does this mean: "36h 30b 29l" I see it in the gear section above Armor word.

h = head armour
b = body armour
l = leg armour
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: TheFocusedOne on April 24, 2012, 08:52:57 pm
It's funny.  I hear people complaining about gold costs and upkeep and I can't help but wonder if they're playing the same game as I am.  The gold cost for upkeep is not bad.  Hell, I can run leather armour a knightly heater shield two slots of throwing axes and a espada and still make sick amounts of coin.  If anything the cost for equipment or repairs should be MORE, and people should only feel comfortable wearing their chain or transitional or plate at high multipliers.  And 30k for the most expensive armours in the game?  A joke.  That can be made in an hour, easy.  It should take a few weeks to grind up the money to obtain that shit, give people a little more sence of accomplishment.

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: bukva2 on April 24, 2012, 09:00:28 pm
You get charged with repair regardless if you get hit (armor) of if you hit with a weapon yes? Would be nice if only weapon repairs were needed if you block everything :<
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Joker86 on April 24, 2012, 09:00:46 pm
Im wearing Strange light Armor/boots/mask, Nodachi, wakizashi and a cheap shield :<

but if thats too much, how come too often i see ppl with top eq and full plates all the time, how do they pay for it?

Light Strange War Mask:...........2107
Light Strange Armour:..............2589
Light Strange Greaves:...............345
Nodachi:................................13766   
Wakizashi:...............................7554
______________________________
                                   Total:  26361

I guess low WPF is the problem, because you shouldn't be losing much money. My standard equip is 19.912 and I ALWAYS make money.

Anyway, I don't think it's a very effective build to make a 1hd+shield/2hd-hybrid. Specialize on one of them, and then you can remove the other weapons. Not only will your character be more effective, you will make more money.

But the best solution would be to remove the weaboo stuff completely, because it looks... not really appealing...  :P

You get charged with repair regardless if you get hit (armor) of if you hit with a weapon yes? Would be nice if only weapon repairs were needed if you block everything :<

Nope, completely unrelated whether you use an item of have it holstered all the time, whether you kill someone or get killed and so on. The only things which matter are:

- You must have had the item in your inventory at one point of the round (important for picking up stuff)
- The time the round took. The longer it takes, the more likely your equipment will break
- Whether you won or lost. Winning means a lightly lower chance of breaking
- Your WPF with the particular weapon. The higher the WPF, the less likely it will break.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: bukva2 on April 24, 2012, 09:05:13 pm
my WPF is about 120 now i think. And im not a hybrid, just two handed, but  sometimes a shield is better and i dont want to keep switching weapons in battle all the time
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Joker86 on April 24, 2012, 09:08:13 pm
my WPF is about 120 now i think. And im not a hybrid, just two handed, but  sometimes a shield is better and i dont want to keep switching weapons in battle all the time

Limit yourself. You can't have everything to be an allrounder, that's not the point of the game. Specialize in one task, and rely on your teammates to do the other tasks for you (and pray to god while doing so!).

By removing the Wakizashi and the shield you would save a lot of money, especially as those will break more often. Next to the fact that they slow you down quite a bit.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: OpenPalm on April 24, 2012, 09:56:06 pm
Get rid of wakizashi and nodachi, use katana instead, I believe you can use it 1h if you have a shield.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: bukva2 on April 24, 2012, 10:05:19 pm
Katana is always a 2h, but ive been thinking about it.
Ive seen some guy today using it a killing everything, he was "faking" so fast and attacking that the moment he hit my block i didnt even have the time to change block and already a 2nd attack hit me. Unbelievable. But that proly requires a lot of AGI i guess
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: OpenPalm on April 24, 2012, 10:07:00 pm
Not really, it's a very light 2h weapon and has a fast attack speed.  Just takes practice and turning into the swing.

edit:  well it's probably best if you have at least 18 agi or higher.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 12:20:37 am
Hey, this thread is about how fucking stupid it is to have upkeep in a game like this. There is no reason for it, people aren't going to be walking around in full plate because there is no upkeep. Whichever bundle of sticks ever came up with the idea of upkeep in any game is a fucking retard, because now people just accept it.

Why does it matter that you could eventually own everything, you can only use one fucking set of items at a time. Not to mention with so many different builds, you will hardly see people rocking the same thing. I understand them adding it to slow down your progress in their game, but that is like the worst fucking reason in the world. That means they don't have enough faith in there game, that you will want to continue to play when you top out.

It's just fucking stupid and not needed. I am new to this game, I like this game, but somethings about it are really fucking stupid. Which is the reason only a fucking thousand people at most play this game.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: OpenPalm on April 25, 2012, 12:31:26 am
Geez, if this is the amount of rage you have when you're new, I'd hate to see you if you ever get good.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 12:46:07 am
This isn't rage, this is playing a game for three days, and seeing flaws that exist for no reason.

The fact that you have played this game for more than a day, and have not seen this issue leads me to believe you are a retard. Because you have not noticed this and who knows how many other problems, or you have just chosen to ignore them.

You are the kid that would go outside to play basketball, and realize your ball was flat. Instead of inflating the ball you would just throw around a limp ball like a monkey.

Also, you are probably fucking awful at this game seeing as how you are retarded.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: TheFocusedOne on April 25, 2012, 02:04:40 am
(click to show/hide)

Now, learn about the Dunning-Kruger effect:

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.

Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. As Kruger and Dunning conclude, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others"

You are not seeing a flaw, you are bitching because you are a little bitch, and most people in this forum are going to have a good 20 IQ points on you.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 25, 2012, 02:05:29 am
Upkeep is here to keep you gen 1 plebs off the battlefield
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Brrrak on April 25, 2012, 02:41:57 am
(click to show/hide)

Now, let's learn about Bread:

Bread is a staple food prepared by cooking a dough of flour and water and often additional ingredients. Doughs are usually baked, but in some cuisines breads are steamed (e.g., mantou), fried (e.g., puri), or baked on an unoiled frying pan (e.g., tortillas). It may be leavened or unleavened (e.g. matzo). Salt, fat and leavening agents such as yeast and baking soda are common ingredients, though bread may contain other ingredients, such as milk, egg, sugar, spice, fruit (such as raisins), vegetables (such as onion), nuts (such as walnuts) or seeds (such as poppy). Referred to colloquially as the "staff of life", bread has been prepared for at least 30,000 years. The development of leavened bread can probably also be traced to prehistoric times. Sometimes, the word bread refers to a sweetened loaf cake, often containing appealing ingredients like dried fruit, chocolate chips, nuts or spices, such as pumpkin bread, banana bread or gingerbread.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Rainbow on April 25, 2012, 03:33:32 am
lol.  funny guys. funny guys
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Ubereem on April 25, 2012, 05:01:33 am
long spear + peasant rags = plenty of kills and lots of money

Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Zisa on April 25, 2012, 05:21:20 am
This again?

Upkeep is only a factor if : You are new, or gen 1.

Originally it was not the plated charger, though those were around, it was supposedly to limit the vast amounts of heavy armor wearing crossbow toters. Ya, and things have changed *snicker.

wooden sword + pilgrim disguise - 1 gen should be about 200-300k by level 31.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 05:24:01 am
Quote
Now, learn about the Dunning-Kruger effect:

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.

Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. As Kruger and Dunning conclude, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others"

You are not seeing a flaw, you are bitching because you are a little bitch, and most people in this forum are going to have a good 20 IQ points on you.


Ya I guess if I was smart like you I could quote shit from Wikipedia like a fucking moron, instead of engaging in any kind of actual discussion about a game I(you) care about. Good Call



Quote
Upkeep is here to keep you gen 1 plebs off the battlefield

Oh so you like keeping the playerbase to a few random 100 people. You aren't interested in playing with more people and adding any kind of challenge to the game?

Sorry, I actually like this game, and I want more people to play it. I'm not bad mouthing the exp grind/money for weapons, but upkeep is ridiculous in a game like this.

Upkeep will keep more/better players away from the game. They just had a sale and had to of gotten a decent size influx of players, why would you not want the game to grow?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 05:27:35 am
Quote
Upkeep is only a factor if : You are new, or gen 1.

Exactly my point. Why is it in the game then, to purposefully demotivate new players to the game? That is a really good idea for a game that has a playerbase that can fit in my fucking house at one time.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Vkvkvk on April 25, 2012, 05:41:28 am
Seriously, it's about the worst thing in any game ever. It's nothing but a money sink, which seems unimportant in this game. Not to mention, sometimes I have to pay upkeep sometimes I don't. I've played and gotten it 4-5 matches in a row, and other times I've played 20 matches and never gotten it.

Seriously, what the fuck.

It's there so that people with several million gold pooled up can use their fully heirloomed heavy gauntlets and heavy armor 24/7 with a flamberge on their back and a danish greatsword in their hands on a plated charger and so that noobs have to fight in light-medium armor most of the time until they either get a gen and sell a loom point for money or just quit the game entirely.

Most new players at this point just go for the easiest way out which is quitting the game and never coming back.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: rustyspoon on April 25, 2012, 06:02:01 am
Oh so you like keeping the playerbase to a few random 100 people. You aren't interested in playing with more people and adding any kind of challenge to the game?

Sorry, I actually like this game, and I want more people to play it. I'm not bad mouthing the exp grind/money for weapons, but upkeep is ridiculous in a game like this.

Upkeep will keep more/better players away from the game. They just had a sale and had to of gotten a decent size influx of players, why would you not want the game to grow?

Honestly, upkeep in this game is not bad at all. Even at gen 1 upkeep isn't really a problem. The real problem is that if you're new it's hard to find information about managing upkeep. When people start playing this game they keep spending their money as soon as they get it on the most expensive thing they can afford. People who've been playing this for a while know that just because something is expensive, doesn't mean it's any good. Hell, all my gear is mid-tier stuff and I make a fuck-ton of money using it.

Once you figure things out and start to manage your money, you'll realize that upkeep isn't a big deal at all.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 06:10:48 am
I totally agree, but if upkeep really isn't a big deal then it shouldn't even be in the game.

Yes, more information would be great. Yes, streamlining the weapon/armor stats/info would be great. I don't see those things as being actual problems with the game though.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: rustyspoon on April 25, 2012, 06:19:26 am
I totally agree, but if upkeep really isn't a big deal then it shouldn't even be in the game.

Yes, more information would be great. Yes, streamlining the weapon/armor stats/info would be great. I don't see those things as being actual problems with the game though.

It's hard to explain why upkeep is in the game to someone who didn't play before upkeep was introduced. The game was WAY different back then.

Right now it serves it's purpose. It basically keeps the game in a constant state of flux. If you are using really expensive equipment, you'll lose money. The only way to keep up with it is to either play the market, or to retire and sell loom points. When people retire, it gives them something to work towards. Upkeep was added to help mitigate boredom after playing for a really, really long time.

But it does serve it's purpose. It keeps the amount of high-level gear down.

Anyway, once you retire for the first time and sell your loom, you'll never have to worry about upkeep again, unless you buy lots of looms, or ride a plated charger wearing full plate.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: jogbog on April 25, 2012, 06:53:07 am
crpg: made by neckbeards, for neckbeards
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 06:58:33 am
How does it mitigate boredom to high level players, when it's irrelevant to them?

It doesn't need to be in the game, if high level players need fucking upkeep to stay interested then this game fucking sucks.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Jacko on April 25, 2012, 09:33:59 am
There is tons of reasons to have money sinks. We actually need more money sinks (since there is an infinite amount of money in cRPG). Without it we'd have the old days where everyone and his mother was running around in Plate, an even more unfriendly environment for nubs. Upkeep does it job in keeping player gear somewhat low (and diverse), and that's all it's meant to do. 
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 10:04:39 am
Quote
Upkeep does it job in keeping player gear somewhat low (and diverse), and that's all it's meant to do. 

It only keeps the gear somewhat low for your new players. High level players have stated(in this thread) that it means nothing to them. Having 1 mil gold, makes upkeep points less. The only people you are impacting are the lower levels, probably only the first gens. Who are the key to making this game more popular.(maybe better?)


I don't see how all the high level players running around in plate is a problem? Have you tried playing your game all over as a level 1? I have, and I am level 20 and just played with a friend who is level 1. We went to a server to just 1v1 and he could hardly even do damage to me. By hardly, I mean he probably hit me 10+ times before I died. Not to mention he would hit me probably 10 more times along with that, and do zero damage. That's 20 hits to bring me down.

Now I understand he is level 1, but is that really the player you want to hinder anymore than that? Already new players are having to go up against people that are the equivalent to gods, you really should discourage them buy hitting them with a 5-600+ gold tab at the end of a round.

The fact that you don't have everyone wearing full plate now, has more to do with players making choices on who/how they play. If players migrate toward one set of items over and over, it's a balance issue 90% of the time. I'm not asking you to have a dedicated team to keeping shit balanced, I understand this is just a mod. Just throwing upkeep into a game like this for the reasoning of, "Oh, well this will give them X amount of more hours to get to the top before they get bored" is not the best reason.

If you are actively supporting this game,(which it seems you are) there are so many more ways about extending the life of the game. Instead of what you are now currently doing to it by killing it. By killing it I mean you are not increasing in a new/bigger playerbase.

I only say this, because I really like this game so far, and this mod seems to be the only one adding to it.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Savior_of_Death on April 25, 2012, 10:57:20 am
Honestly at this point upkeep should just be removed. It only hurts the newer players and is a reason why a lot of people will and have given up on this game.

The point of upkeep, is so that people can't just go around in full plate 24/7. BUT, at this point all of the veterans have more than enough money to in fact go around in full plate 24/7. It's as fucking flawed a system could ever possibly be.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 11:03:51 am
Ya, that is what I'm trying to say.

Like I said, how is it a problem if everyone is running around in plate? You have to look at it from a game balancing point of view. Are they wearing it, because it's too strong? Are they wearing it, because they just want to?

Everyone just keeps calling me a fucking retard, or saying I'm raging. I'm trying to improve this mod, simply because I like and it's fun.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Arathian on April 25, 2012, 11:25:49 am
Ya, that is what I'm trying to say.

Like I said, how is it a problem if everyone is running around in plate? You have to look at it from a game balancing point of view. Are they wearing it, because it's too strong? Are they wearing it, because they just want to?

Everyone just keeps calling me a fucking retard, or saying I'm raging. I'm trying to improve this mod, simply because I like and it's fun.

your point is idiotic.

As Jacko said, repairs aren't the problem. The problem is that it isn't enough. We need more ways for the old guys to lose money, not for new guys to get as much money as the old guys.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Tzar on April 25, 2012, 11:29:25 am
Point of upkeep is to keep new players down so we the vets can steamroll you with better gear an force you to sell loompoints to try an keep up with us.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 11:30:42 am
No, you are a fucking moron. Why the fuck do you need money, why can't you just enjoy the game without some stupid grind that doesn't mean anything?

Do you not enjoy playing the game? If you need some idiotic grind to play a pvp game, then go play World of Warcraft.

I was addressing Arathain.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Jacko on April 25, 2012, 11:41:36 am
The game is balanced around level 30's, not level ones, if you don't like the grind, just make an STF char instead. Of course a level one won't be able to hurt anyone, it's never been meant work that way (your're a peasant). There is actually huge differences in gear when skill is involved. The most minute difference in reach, speed and armor will make the difference in a fight.

That being said, armor is good. Perhaps even too good. High level armor is superior in big fights. It needs to be restricted with the current system (not only armor but horses, high level weapons, arrows and so on). We had everyone running around in the "best" gear, and it simply wasn't fun. Tincan xbow 2 handers comes to mind.

You retire and start at level 1 again, so yes, most people have played through the levels countless of times ('us' included). It's actually very nice and easy nowadays, much so then before, when we didn't have upkeep and restrictions.

Upkeep is primarily for decreasing money, not necessarily elongating the [grind] game (heirlooms do that). You can be extremely viable within the 'constraint' of upkeep.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 25, 2012, 12:15:50 pm
I can see it now

UPKEEP REMOVED!!!

*one day later*

CAN YOU GUYS FUCKING DO SOMETHING ABOUT ALL THESE FULL PLATE CAV PLAYERS RUNNING AROUND NONSTOP WITHOUT ANYTHING TO EVEN MAKE THEM THINK ABOUT STOPPING? ITS LIKE OLD CRPG ALL OVER AGAIN
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: bukva2 on April 25, 2012, 07:18:16 pm
Hm, lot of horses today...
How much does a horse cost for upkeep, is it even a viable option to use one and still earn money?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 25, 2012, 07:21:25 pm
Hm, lot of horses today...
How much does a horse cost for upkeep, is it even a viable option to use one and still earn money?

Yes. My melee alts wear a bit over 40K and they make money (slowly) in the long run. Horses are a bit over 20K-ish for the average mid-line ones like Destrier and such, add 9K for a lance and you can still wear viable armour with the left over money and know with even an average multi you can still break even.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: bukva2 on April 25, 2012, 07:29:33 pm
How the hell can you pull that off with 40k, i had to stop wearing 20k worth of items and now i just wear some rags with a 2hander just to barely make any money.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 25, 2012, 07:34:06 pm
How the hell can you pull that off with 40k, i had to stop wearing 20k worth of items and now i just wear some rags with a 2hander just to barely make any money.

Having proper wpf for your weapon drastically cuts the chance of breaking down (over 11% for 1wpf and a wee bit over 2% for 140-ish wpf), so if you have an expensive weapon wpf is a wise choice to save money. I think having a large amount of money equal to your total gear cost (or twice that amount) also helps to pad for "bad" days so the "good" days can pull you ahead. Also I usually play on battle, as Siege seems to lose me money rather fast.

Then again, it can be pure luck.
Maybe its your destiny to play in rags then!
One of my clan mates had about 170 wpf or some such ridiculous number in xbows, and blew through 200K of gold in just a few weeks with non-stop repairs for an Arbalest.

All I know is that I seem to make money a bit easier then a lot of players, on my main and on my alts, so it might be dumb luck.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: bukva2 on April 25, 2012, 07:38:16 pm
What about armors? They get dmged anyway regardless what i do. What armor would you recomend for 2hander build?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 25, 2012, 07:42:14 pm
What about armors? They get dmged anyway regardless what i do. What armor would you recomend for 2hander build?

Here ya go try this, you will thank me later

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: bukva2 on April 25, 2012, 07:46:18 pm
thanks
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 08:04:17 pm
Quote
The game is balanced around level 30's, not level ones, if you don't like the grind, just make an STF char instead.

If the game is balanced around level 30s, then you should not be charging anyone under level 30 upkeep, plain and simple.
That wouldn't do anything to hurt the game, because you can't stay at level 29 to avoid the upkeep. This would help your new players out extremely, allowing them to get decent gear quickly and stockpile some cash for the eventual level 30 upkeep. Worst case scenario here is your level 30s reroll more often to avoid the upkeep, which also helps your new players as there are not as many level 30s per game.

As upkeep stands now, it is only effecting your low level new players. I don't understand how you don't see that as a problem. Look how small the playerbase is , this is not the type of game you just randomly pull players into. This game's community relies on new players that come from word of mouth. Right now if I want a friend to join, you basically have to tell them they won't be able to do much for the first 10 hours they play this game, if not longer. That is a problem if you actually care about making this game better. If you don't please tell me so I can stop wasting my time.

Warband just had a sale on Steam, you just got X amount of new players into the game. I've talked to at least 20-30 new players recently, and they all have similar feelings.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Brutal on April 25, 2012, 08:18:22 pm
That is a problem if you actually care about making this game better.
Guess what you already dont pay upkeep if your gen 1 and under lvl25 or something like that  :mrgreen:

And also the playerbase is pretty steady and lots of people play this game since 1-2 years and even more.
the server are alway fulls on prime time even if its an crappy looking old game .
Yes crpg is that good.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 08:30:56 pm
Guess what you already dont pay upkeep if your gen 1 and under lvl25 or something like that  :mrgreen:

And also the playerbase is pretty steady and lots of people play this game since 1-2 years and even more.
the server are alway fulls on prime time even if its an crappy looking old game .
Yes crpg is that good.

I'm gen 1, I am under level 25. I pay upkeep, all my friends are under 25 and gen 1s, they all pay upkeep.

Quote
the server are alway fulls on prime time even if its an crappy looking old game .

Last night there was 1 server at max cap, and it was 120pop. There were less than 400 other people playing this game across another 16 servers. I don't know how you think those are good numbers, maybe relative to the people playing multiplayer mindsweeper. Right after the sale, I saw 5-6 200 pop servers topped out in the Vanilla game, and 2-3 in crpg(120pop). Those are the new players this game needs, and this ridiculous upkeep system will keep them out. It's already hard enough to play this game long enough to be able to do dmg to a level 30. You can't slow them down anymore.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 25, 2012, 08:36:48 pm
I'm gen 1, I am under level 25. I pay upkeep, all my friends are under 25 and gen 1s, they all pay upkeep.

Last night there was 1 server at max cap, and it was 120pop. There were less than 400 other people playing this game across another 16 servers. I don't know how you think those are good numbers, maybe relative to the people playing multiplayer mindsweeper. Right after the sale, I saw 5-6 200 pop servers topped out in the Vanilla game, and 2-3 in crpg(120pop). Those are the new players this game needs, and this ridiculous upkeep system will keep them out. It's already hard enough to play this game long enough to be able to do dmg to a level 30. You can't slow them down anymore.

The upkeep isn't ridiculous.  My first generation I was able to buy over 60,000 (*EDIT* actually was around 50-55k) gold worth of gear, and still had enough left over to be a heavy lance riding a courser by the time I retired (I had to go footman a lot to pay for the bills).  Your first gen is very difficult, but when you retire at level 31 you can sell your loompoint for 600,000 gold or more (and still buy a +1 heirloomed item for less than 500k), make 100k profit and you don't have to worry about money much any more.

Considering the upkeep system has been in place for over a year, if it wasn't here, then you'd have people running around in the heaviest armor, and on the most expensive horses 24/7.  And then you'd have people in here bitching that there needs to be a way to limit what armor and equipment people can use. 

It's a balancing act, and as a 1st generation player, you are a peasant who is a support class there to make money.  By the time you're level 27 or 28 or 29 you should have enough equipment to play as a decently equipped footman. 

In reality it doesn't take more than maybe 2 or 3 nights of playing to get to level 30. 

And for the record, before the steam sale on warband, c-rpg was easily the most played multiplayer mod for warband, it far exceeded the people playing in the native mp servers.  A lot of c-rpg players are now playing mount and musket napoleon bullshit, so that's why it's not as populated.  A week ago the NA1 battle and NA2 siege server at peak times had 200 people playing (and the other NA c-rpg servers had anywhere from 20-60 people playing in them as well).  The EU servers were always full during peak times as well.  So that's 400-600 people playing during peak times.  The community is pretty damn good (number's wise) for warband.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 25, 2012, 08:42:40 pm
Why bother helping people who refuse to listen?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: TheFocusedOne on April 25, 2012, 08:44:55 pm
I agree that the upkeep isn't bad.  The numbers are all over this forum - you can wear ~50k worth of gear and still break even in the long run.  50k of gear is a LOT.

Think about it.  Most "decent" peices of hear fall in the 5-8k range.  You have 4 slots for armours (and leg armour is damn near useless for infantry anyway) and 4 slots for weapons.  If you divide that 50k by those 8 slots, you have about 6k to spend on each one - and that's if you plan on using every weapon slot!

I only wear 21,854 gold worth of gear normally, and I manage to go 1:1 and have fun.  At first I sucked, but that is the nature of this game.  Skill =/= expensive gear.  Go to the duel server - there are people wearing dresses and practice swords there that will make you look like a fool.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 08:46:44 pm
By the way I ran some tests last night with my character and a couple friends.

My character is level 22, I had my friends attack me while I stood still. One person played on a level 1 with starter gear, another on a level 12 toon with a mid range weapon.

The level 1 can't even do damage basically. Now I get it he shouldn't be able to one shot me, but he hit me probably 20-30 times and could only take off 50%. More than half the hits did not even register damage. Before you say, "oh well he doesn't know the hitboxes..blah blah" I played the level 1 and I know how to hit people. Now I'm not sure how the damage is calculated,(mostly because I can't find a reliable source of information) but I am assuming that his n00b weapon damage was mitigated by my armor, and causing the no damage hits. Which I am ok with, I mean if I am a man and wearing chain mail and some 12 year old kid comes up and hits me with a tree branch, ya it probably won't do anything to me.

Then we tried the level 12, and basically got the same result. Short of the fact that when he did hit me(which was about twice as frequently) he did substantially more damage. On big hits he was doing almost 20% damage, small hits maybe 5-10%. He also had hits that didn't register any damage at all, which I am guessing is my armor mitigation. Like I said though, I can't find a reliable source for this information.

I wish I could give raw #s, but with the inability to tell my own hps/mitigation it's nearly impossible to tell what any of the damage/stats on weapons translate as far as real damage.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 25, 2012, 08:47:26 pm
I wish I could give raw #s, but with the inability to tell my own hps/mitigation it's nearly impossible to tell what any of the damage/stats on weapons translate as far as real damage.

Welcome to cRPG!
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 08:50:49 pm
Quote
The upkeep isn't ridiculous.  My first generation I was able to buy over 60,000 (*EDIT* actually was around 50-55k) gold worth of gear, and still had enough left over to be a heavy lance riding a courser by the time I retired (I had to go footman a lot to pay for the bills).  Your first gen is very difficult, but when you retire at level 31 you can sell your loompoint for 600,000 gold or more (and still buy a +1 heirloomed item for less than 500k), make 100k profit and you don't have to worry about money much any more.

You are making the point for me why, upkeep is bad. I don't understand how anything you said in that post makes sense to you.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 08:51:56 pm
Quote
Welcome to cRPG!

I am fine with the grind, I am fine with level1/gen1 not doing a lot(any) damage at first, but for the love of god stop holding down the new people who are trying to get into this game.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 08:53:30 pm
Quote
And for the record, before the steam sale on warband, c-rpg was easily the most played multiplayer mod for warband, it far exceeded the people playing in the native mp servers.  A lot of c-rpg players are now playing mount and musket napoleon bullshit, so that's why it's not as populated.  A week ago the NA1 battle and NA2 siege server at peak times had 200 people playing (and the other NA c-rpg servers had anywhere from 20-60 people playing in them as well).  The EU servers were always full during peak times as well.  So that's 400-600 people playing during peak times.  The community is pretty damn good (number's wise) for warband.

Those are not great numbers, because you are losing and not gaining people. This isn't an mmo 60k people play, where you don't care if 1k people leave it everyday. Every person matters, and every new person REALLY matters.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 25, 2012, 08:54:21 pm
FYI just edit your post instead of replying 3 times in a row
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 25, 2012, 08:54:46 pm
You are making the point for me why, upkeep is bad. I don't understand how anything you said in that post makes sense to you.

Because you're only reading snippets of a post (read .  If you read every response to you in this thread you will see the flip side to your argument.  Everything has two sides, try playing devil's advocate and see if there could be a reason for something you disagree with.

The very next paragraph I explain my point of why upkeep isn't bad....

Quote
Considering the upkeep system has been in place for over a year, if it wasn't here, then you'd have people running around in the heaviest armor, and on the most expensive horses 24/7.  And then you'd have people in here bitching that there needs to be a way to limit what armor and equipment people can use. 

But you clearly can't be assed to actually read and comprehend someone's post, just pick and choose what you want to read.

Your ability to have a discussion reminds me of being in America in the lead-up to the Iraq war.  Everything that could help further the cause for war was trumpeted, while everything that showed that Iraq had no military capabilities or biological weapons was downplayed or ignored.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 08:57:33 pm
Ok, I just did the math my gear=23052, I have peasant boots, my head costs 300, and I barely make money. Having to run around naked to make money is not game balance.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 25, 2012, 08:58:24 pm
Ok, I just did the math my gear=23052, I have peasant boots, my head costs 300, and I barely make money. Having to run around naked to make money is not game balance.

You make it sound like every piece of gear breaks every round
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 25, 2012, 08:58:52 pm
if you run around in gear that's worth about 20k (it tells you on the equipment page of the website) you should make some pretty good money.  You can't expect to make money if you're wearing "good" gear.  That's just the way the game works.  And if you want to find out why upkeep is in place, you need only read some of the posts in this thread to find out why. 

Also on the equipment page tells you what your max upkeep is for a round (if every piece of equipment gets hit with upkeep).  Besides weapons, your upkeep chance is 7% for every piece of equipment. 

I can have low to medium armor (and a bec de corbin weapon) and still have these stats:

Armor:
30h 33b 38l
2/4Slots
16,990 goldCost
1,188 goldUpkeep (max)

Upkeep isn't a bad thing, and it's not as brutal as you're making it out to be.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 09:01:10 pm
No, clearly the problem is you are incapable of using your brain. Just because something has been done for x amount of time doesn't mean it's working. The statement I quoted has you contradicting the point you are trying to make. You said upkeep isn't bad, while telling me it is not relevant to TOP LEVEL PLAYERS(AKA THE PEOPLE YOU NEED TO BE HITTING WITH THE UPKEEP) so who does that leave to get penalized from the upkeep?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 25, 2012, 09:02:19 pm
No, clearly the problem is you are incapable of using your brain. Just because something has been done for x amount of time doesn't mean it's working. The statement I quoted has you contradicting the point you are trying to make. You said upkeep isn't bad, while telling me it is not relevant to TOP LEVEL PLAYERS(AKA THE PEOPLE YOU NEED TO BE HITTING WITH THE UPKEEP) so who does that leave to get penalized from the upkeep?

Congrats, I just wrote you off as a moron
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 09:04:02 pm
if you run around in gear that's worth about 20k (it tells you on the equipment page of the website) you should make some pretty good money.  You can't expect to make money if you're wearing "good" gear.  That's just the way the game works.  And if you want to find out why upkeep is in place, you need only read some of the posts in this thread to find out why. 

Also on the equipment page tells you what your max upkeep is for a round (if every piece of equipment gets hit with upkeep).  Besides weapons, your upkeep chance is 7% for every piece of equipment.


I have 20k gear, I'm barely breaking even. I'm not arguing that upkeep should be taken out of the game. I am saying if it is intended to "slow down" high level players or give them a "money sink" it should only hit HIGH LEVEL PLAYERS. Right now it doesn't hurt them AT ALL, and is mentioned OVER and OVER in this thread.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 09:05:33 pm
Quote
Congrats, I just wrote you off as a moron
-POOPHAMMER
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 25, 2012, 09:06:13 pm
-POOPHAMMER

Damn right I wrote that.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 25, 2012, 09:07:14 pm
No, clearly the problem is you are incapable of using your brain. Just because something has been done for x amount of time doesn't mean it's working. The statement I quoted has you contradicting the point you are trying to make. You said upkeep isn't bad, while telling me it is not relevant to TOP LEVEL PLAYERS(AKA THE PEOPLE YOU NEED TO BE HITTING WITH THE UPKEEP) so who does that leave to get penalized from the upkeep?

I never said it wasn't relevant to the top level players.  I simply gave you a suggestion for making it so upkeep won't effect you so severely.  As a generation 8 player, money was always an issue for me in this game.  It limited what equipment I could use, and sometimes I had to play as a poor peasant footman (with about 15k gold worth of gear) to make money back (or until I retired that gen). 

People are giving you explanations why upkeep is in place, you're just choosing to not hear them.  Playing devil's advocate is a pretty easy skill to learn, just don't be an ignorant asshole who thinks everything needs to cater to themselves.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 09:07:27 pm
Why again high level players arent hit by upkeep?

Go back, and read the thread. I'm not going to quote all the high level players that claim the upkeep they are hit with makes no difference because they have x amount of gold.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 25, 2012, 09:08:56 pm
Go back, and read the thread. I'm not going to quote all the high level players that claim the upkeep they are hit with makes no difference because they have x amount of gold.

So just because most of us were able to manage our gold, not be an idiot with using too expensive gear, and grinded our ways to multiple generations to sell it for gold we damn well earned, you think we have to pay MORE?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 09:09:49 pm
Quote
The upkeep isn't ridiculous.

Quote
when you retire at level 31 you can sell your loompoint for 600,000 gold or more (and still buy a +1 heirloomed item for less than 500k), make 100k profit and you don't have to worry about money much any more.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Vodner on April 25, 2012, 09:10:06 pm
Quote
TOP LEVEL PLAYERS(AKA THE PEOPLE YOU NEED TO BE HITTING WITH THE UPKEEP) so who does that leave to get penalized from the upkeep?
Most top players I know of wear a sustainable amount of gear. There aren't that many wearing plate or using heavy cav 24/7. On the other hand, without upkeep there would be little reason not to do that.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 09:11:44 pm
So just because most of us were able to manage our gold, not be an idiot with using too expensive gear, and grinded our ways to multiple generations to sell it for gold we damn well earned, you think we have to pay MORE?

(click to show/hide)

My Skype name is Shamiggles, if you want me to actually explain this to you I will. I'm not going to argue with a blatant troll for 3-5 pages.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Kafein on April 25, 2012, 09:11:52 pm
So just because most of us were able to manage our gold, not be an idiot with using too expensive gear, and grinded our ways to multiple generations to sell it for gold we damn well earned, you think we have to pay MORE?


Social welfare !

Btw, you do still have to worry about money even if you retire and sell your loompoint. It depends much more heavily on the equipment you are wearing than on how much gold you have. You need several millions if you want to play plated charger knight for a whole month.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 25, 2012, 09:11:56 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 25, 2012, 09:15:20 pm
My Skype name is Shamiggles, if you want me to actually explain this to you I will. I'm not going to argue with a blatant troll for 3-5 pages.

No need to explain, you are a new player who can not manage his money wisely and think expensive gear = moar skill and moar kills

I have made gen 1 alts and never had a single problem keeping money in my character's wallet.

Does it suck sometimes? Yeah sure. Does it make the mod unplayable for new players? Absolutely not! I have seen quite a few new faces  pop up on crpg and do quite well, and made it to their first retirement and so on. The problem isnt repairs, the problem is how you are managing your gear. People here have been trying to tell you this but you do not seem to want to listen.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 09:15:25 pm
Most top players I know of wear a sustainable amount of gear. There aren't that many wearing plate or using heavy cav 24/7. On the other hand, without upkeep there would be little reason not to do that.

I am fine with upkeep against top level players, if that is how they chose to keep their income down. That makes sense, since they already have a huge level advantage over new players. I have already proven low levels can barely hurt them, if at all. Which I am also ok with, if that is how they chose to balance their mod.

You should not be charging upkeep against someone who just started, hardly knows how to play, and gets one shot all the time.

You are the troll here. For fucks sake, just play till level 31, sell your loompoint and stop whining.

Hi, that is why upkeep is bad.

Get to level 31 and it won't matter.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 09:17:56 pm
No need to explain, you are a new player who can not manage his money wisely and think expensive gear = moar skill and moar kills

I have made gen 1 alts and never had a single problem keeping money in my character's wallet.

Does it suck sometimes? Yeah sure. Does it make the mod unplayable for new players? Absolutely not! I have seen quite a few new faces  pop up on crpg and do quite well, and made it to their first retirement and so on. The problem isnt repairs, the problem is how you are managing your gear. People here have been trying to tell you this but you do not seem to want to listen.

No, you are either just trolling, or just not that intelligent.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 25, 2012, 09:18:13 pm


It depends.  100k won't sustain the "high level players" from wearing high level armor, high level horses and high level weapons.  If you're staying around 20k gold for your loadout, 100k gold could potentially last you forever. 

So it really depends.  I'm sorry I didn't provide all possible scenarios for you when I wrote a quick reply.  You're trying so hard to prove your point, and trying so hard to dismiss any reasoning that goes against your point, that you're being 100% blinded by the bias.  Take a step back, take a breath, and try to brainstorm yourself why upkeep is in place.  I'm confident you'd come to the same conclusions the others in this thread have.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 09:20:38 pm
It depends.  100k won't sustain the "high level players" from wearing high level armor, high level horses and high level weapons.  If you're staying around 20k gold for your loadout, 100k gold could potentially last you forever. 

So it really depends.  I'm sorry I didn't provide all possible scenarios for you when I wrote a quick reply.  You're trying so hard to prove your point, and trying so hard to dismiss any reasoning that goes against your point, that you're being 100% blinded by the bias.  Take a step back, take a breath, and try to brainstorm yourself why upkeep is in place.  I'm confident you'd come to the same conclusions the others in this thread have.

You are making my point for me, you are arguing with yourself at this point. You are telling me upkeep isn't a big deal to high level players, AKA the people who you want upkeep to effect, correct?

There is no way you have an education level past high school.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 09:26:11 pm
Once I was down to like 2k gold after buying a loom point for 700k.
I played in my usual ~26 k gold gear for a few days and was at 70 k gold again. With every gear below 30 k gold you are making shittons of money, upkeep should really be higher, its just to low.

You just stated why the current upkeep system is not working. Money does not matter to you, a high level player.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 25, 2012, 09:26:19 pm
You are making my point for me, you are arguing with yourself at this point. You are telling me upkeep isn't a big deal to high level players, AKA the people who you want upkeep to effect, correct?

There is no way you have an education level past high school.

No, I'm not.  I never said upkeep wasn't a big deal for "high level players".  It's a big deal if you have expensive gear on.  It's not a big deal if you have average to low cost gear on. 

It has nothing to do with what level or generation someone is.  Upkeep is upkeep, it only affects people depending on how much gear they are wearing at a given time.

You seriously are a dense person to come here and twist people's words, try to interpret them as you wish, ignore anyone who gives you reasons explaining why upkeep is in place, and then have the audacity to talk shit when people point it out over and over to you.

Are you 14?  Be honest..
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 25, 2012, 09:27:35 pm
No, I'm not.  I never said upkeep wasn't a big deal for "high level players".  It's a big deal if you have expensive gear on.  It's not a big deal if you have average to low cost gear on. 

It has nothing to do with what level or generation someone is.  Upkeep is upkeep, it only affects people depending on how much gear they are wearing at a given time.

You seriously are a dense person to come here and twist people's words, try to interpret them as you wish, ignore anyone who gives you reasons explaining why upkeep is in place, and then have the audacity to talk shit when people point it out over and over to you.

Give up, its a lost cause

He is right, everyone else is wrong.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Kafein on April 25, 2012, 09:33:57 pm
You just stated why the current upkeep system is not working. Money does not matter to you, a high level player.

This guy is the living proof that causality is an illusion.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 25, 2012, 09:42:48 pm
He thinks the higher your level, the more gold you gain or something. Obviously he has no idea what upkeep is and how it functions.

All he knows if you are on top of the scoreboard you are obviously not worried about repairs, which makes me wonder this - What about top players that are dirt poor? Just because they are doing well score wise, would this mean they should be punished by having their cRPG wallet raped?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 25, 2012, 09:47:19 pm
He thinks so I guess, or, as stated above, he is just stupid.

I'm gonna go with the latter on this one
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 25, 2012, 09:48:02 pm
Some of the "top level" players in the Knights Hospitaller only are gen 6 or 7 (some gen 3 or 4) and they constantly run out of money.  They need donations from clanmates, or the more likely scenario, they go peasant for 2 or 3 maps until they have enough to not run out of money with their gear. 

I'm gen 8 (got my +3 heavy lance, and +3 courser), I sold my loompoint after gen 7 retirement, and now I have like 520k gold, and don't plan on ever retiring again.  That should get me through about 80 million experience give or take 10-20 million depending on how high my multiplier is.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Kafein on April 25, 2012, 09:49:14 pm
All he knows if you are on top of the scoreboard you are obviously not worried about repairs, which makes me wonder this - What about top players that are dirt poor? Just because they are doing well score wise, would this mean they should be punished by having their cRPG wallet raped?

They are fucked indirectly with the increased teamswitching of top scorers.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Latrinenkobold on April 25, 2012, 10:02:19 pm
I always wear equipment worth 50k gold since i started playing this mod and i didnt sell any loom points ever .
I never had problems with upkeep...
Because there is no problem with upkeep,it is perfect how it its atm and i dont think devs will change it because you dont like it.


Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Gourmi on April 25, 2012, 10:11:27 pm
after some of the post here i just have to say this... shamlow you are retarded  :lol: you just disregard everything people say to you and then insult them when they try to explain. whats wrong with you xD
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: bukva2 on April 25, 2012, 10:41:42 pm
How come everyone always claims how easy they can wear very expensive items and yet i need to wear crappy armor or i go bankrupt...my 2h is being repaired like every 2-3 rounds, so unless im in the steamrolling team, there is a good chance ill loose a lot. And im almost never in the winning team :(
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Latrinenkobold on April 25, 2012, 10:46:51 pm
Dont forget that higher wpf decreases the rate of upkeep.
If you have like 130 in 2h wpf you will be able to make money pretty fast.
But if you have another 5 wpf in 1h the upkeep rate will be based on these 5 wpf...
As soon as you add 1 wpf to any weapon profieny upkeep can be based on it...
But im not sure what happens if you dont add any wpf points to anything :D
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: bukva2 on April 25, 2012, 10:54:23 pm
As a matter of fact i have exactly 130 WPF right now. I make about 300-400 per hour. I can hardly call that lots of dosh :/
If i try to use the armor that i have (5k worth) i mostly loose money in about the same rate, depending on luck of team siding
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: BlindGuy on April 25, 2012, 10:55:11 pm
Read thru this whole thread...only 2 things make me rage:

The OP stated WHY upkeep excists in his OP. YES OF COURSE IT IS A MONEYSINK, thats what it excists for.

and 2nd thing, poster complaining about upkeep on his strange armour, weaboo weapons AND SHIELD. FUCKING SHIELD WEABOS MAKE ME RAGE SO FUCKING MUCH> No samurai EVER CARRIED A FUCKING SHIELD. Jesus fucking christ!
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 11:03:29 pm
You people are so dumb. You don't see anything wrong with the current upkeep system, because you are only looking at it as it is relative to you.

I say "Top Players" and you immediately  think I'm talking about people at the top of the scoreboard. I mean do you have any reading comprehension at all, where would you even get that if you have read any posts by anyone in this thread?


I am not bashing the upkeep system as a WHOLE. What I am saying is currently the upkeep system effects LOW LEVEL PEOPLE worse than it does HIGHER LEVEL PEOPLE.

This game never had a problem with level fucking 1s rolling people in full plate, I fucking guarantee. EVEN IF a low level person had the best items in the game, he would do little to NO DAMAGE to a level 30.

If I have 1 million dollars, and taxes take 10,000 away, who fucking cares. If I have 20,000 dollars, and taxes take 10,000 I HAVE A PROBLEM. This is the way the current upkeep system works. This is hurting the the POOR PEOPLE(LEVEL1/GEN1) in this analogy more than the RICH PEOPLE(LEVEL 31s).

To the people that say, oh just shut up and level to 31 and make your cash you won't have to worry about it. I'm not worried about it for me, you are right, money will not matter to me at some point. Just like it doesn't matter to most of the playerbase now. I'm not worried for me, I am worried for New potential players who get fucked in an already steep learning curve game.

If you don't give a shit about new players in a game you currently play then you don't fucking care about the game. Just enjoy watching it slowly die like every other half done mod on the internet.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: TheFocusedOne on April 25, 2012, 11:05:05 pm
I am generation 1 and it hardly effects me at all.  You're just a hater.

edit:  And for the record, cRPG hasn't died yet - which means it probably will not soon.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 11:05:54 pm
Quote
The OP stated WHY upkeep excists in his OP. YES OF COURSE IT IS A MONEYSINK, thats what it excists for.

Level 1 characters don't need a money sink, they already have one.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 11:09:11 pm
I am generation 1 and it hardly effects me at all.  You're just a hater.

edit:  And for the record, cRPG hasn't died yet - which means it probably will not soon.

You are lying, or trolling. So, it doesn't matter what you say.

I am Gen1/level22 with mediocre gear, and have already proven how little money one makes at that point. You don't make anymore money that I do the way this game is balanced, it's impossible.

So, you are trolling a forum with a game that maybe 500 people play.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Vodner on April 25, 2012, 11:12:23 pm
Wear cheap (<5k) gear until you have 10k or so in the bank. That will leave you with a big enough buffer that you can wear 30k worth of gear and make money in the long term. There's no need for more than 30k worth of gear, unless you are playing cav (don't play cav your first gen).

I never had money troubles, even as a new gen1 player.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 25, 2012, 11:13:51 pm
You are lying, or trolling. So, it doesn't matter what you say.

I am Gen1/level22 with mediocre gear, and have already proven how little money one makes at that point. You don't make anymore money that I do the way this game is balanced, it's impossible.

So, you are trolling a forum with a game that maybe 500 people play.

Shut the fuck up already you are starting to sound like a broken record player. The guy registered 8 days ago. Nobody cares about your money problems anymore, the only thing you have proven yourself to be in this topic is

-A moron who can not manage his funds
-Someone who is so insecure about his bad budgeting he feels the need to call everyone who says he is wrong a liar, or a troll
-You do not listen to the help you are asking for
-You just have a nasty attitude in general

Be gone already.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 11:14:59 pm
And again, you say something thats simply wrong. You still don´t get it, do you?

Warlord, tell me how I am wrong. Seriously, type it out in words. You can't do it, all you are saying is "that's wrong" " no you are wrong".

I am giving you the actual facts of how the system currently works.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Latrinenkobold on April 25, 2012, 11:16:25 pm
I am giving you the actual facts of how the system currently works.
And again, you say something thats simply wrong. You still don´t get it, do you?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 11:16:54 pm
Quote
Be gone already.

Leave the thread then, you are not giving any kind of input in the discussion. You don't have to read this thread, you don't have to post in it. I'm not holding a gun to your head, you are just trolling because you have nothing better to do.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Brrrak on April 25, 2012, 11:17:30 pm
Welp, I've seen how this thread has involved.  I could read consistently from page 3-6, start skimming on page 7, and finally, on this page (8), there's fuck all to be read.

Shamlow, quit responding to constructive arguments and others' attempts to help you with ad hominem arguments.  If you believe that upkeep completely ruins your game experience, someone already posted the link to the merc mod.  The point of this mod is for you to have fun, and if you aren't having fun, and aren't willing to experiment to see how you'll get the most fun out of the mod, then it's obviously not for you.

However, ever counterargument about upkeep not being useless and not being too much of an issue for people who can properly manage their money is valid.  There is no reason not to do well and still make a profit beyond one's own unwillingness to learn the game, learn the upkeep system, and use some problem solving.

Regardless of however you decide to continue (or not continue) playing cRPG, please do not resort to angry ad hominem attacks at other people, and the default internet cry of 'you don't agree with me, you're a troll' in order to try to get your point across.  If your point hasn't stuck, people are either A) too embedded in their opinions or (most likely), B) know what they are talking about.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 25, 2012, 11:19:13 pm
Leave the thread then, you are not giving any kind of input in the discussion. You don't have to read this thread, you don't have to post in it. I'm not holding a gun to your head, you are just trolling because you have nothing better to do.

Trolling? I was posting legit advice in here for you to follow at one point until I felt the need to edit it out as it did nothing but make you more angry.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 25, 2012, 11:46:33 pm
Ok, Warlord I don't understand why this is so hard for you.

If you have a level 1 and a level 31 completely naked, they will earn the same amount of gold. They will have the same amount of upkeep.

If you put the same weapon in their hands, they will still have the same amount of upkeep.

The only difference is that the level 1 has ZERO gold, and the level 31 has x amount that he has accumulated during his 31 levels of play.

The reason that upkeep was put in the game, as stated by the Dev, and several people in this thread. Was because everyone ended up in full plate/horses at level 31 because there was nothing else to buy. They hit the top of the food chain so to speak. Now I'm sure that there were still people not in full plate, because of preference of game play, but that is not relevant to the argument. The problem was everyone was in the same(maybe best) gear all the time, and they didn't like it as far as it effect balance(maybe boredom).

The problem didn't arise as those players were leveling as much because they were actively spending the gold they earned. Now I'm sure it did start to add up at some point along the way, maybe late 20s.

So, upkeep gets added. You have to pay to wear certain types/levels of gear.( Something I am ok with) You are now taxing players EQUALLY on items, the problem with that is low level players are not equal to high level players. Low levels have not accumulated any amount of wealth, they have to run around naked for X amount of hours, doing almost nothing. This is not fun, this does not make people want to play the game. This is a huge problem with this mod, go read the reviews on any gaming site and you will see editors/reviewers and comments by actually players stating this. New players are severally discourage from playing this game, and one unnecessary aspect of that is charging them upkeep.

I have played this game for like two weeks, I'm not going to give up because it's hard or necessarily hard. I like the combat/combat system, I like that it rewards players/people that use tactics. I like the maps, I like the different mods, I even like vanilla.

I have tried other mods, and I truly think this is the best one. The problem is you don't give most game players a chance to enjoy it. Let them level up without upkeep, let them get to the max level a little easier. This doesn't hurt anything or anyone, it will keep more players interested in the game.

For a game that I think requires more "skill" to be good at, I don't understand why any of you would be worried about allowing low level players to get to a competitive level faster. If you have a year of experience over someone, even if they have the same gear you should have a significant advantage over them. If not, maybe they are just better than you.

I am fine with keeping upkeep how it is at level 31, it's clearly working. I don't see 180 people in a 200 person game running around in full plate. That's good if that is how they are balancing it. At least they put effort into that, that means maybe they are willing to put effort into other things to make this game better.

All I am saying, is you should reduce if not do away with upkeep for people who hardly know what the fuck they are doing in this game. Give them a chance to get into the game, let them enjoy it.

Jesus Christ with you people, do you not want to try to make things better? This type of game is one of the only times you will get a chance, you are dealing with a group of people/players that coded a mod for fun. I guarantee they are willing to make the game more fun and appealing to everyone, not just new players. You can't just think about yourself all the time, "Like of I went through hell levels as a peasant not doing shit for x amount of hours, they should too maybe you should think, "Wow I don't see why I had to deal with this unnecessarily, while trying to level, while trying to learn, while trying to save money, while just trying to hit someone for damage.

Come on people, use your heads.

Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: zottlmarsch on April 25, 2012, 11:50:17 pm
some guy who has been here for two weeks giving us the history of crpg and how to make it better,  :rolleyes:

these noobs don't know how easy they got it these days

Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: micah243 on April 26, 2012, 12:07:31 am
Thread is so long i only read the first 3 pages but here is my say... Shamlow, or whatever, you do not understand very much about this game yet man.... I am Gen 2 and when i retired as a level 1 i was still able to get kills on people because upkeep keeps a lot of people from wearing God gear. Honestly what you are not seeing is that upkeep is necessary. As a new player you will not have enough money for top tier stuff without upkeep anyway. What upkeep does is keep the MAJORITY (I say majority since there are some people with such large gold reserves money is no object to them, but those people are few and far between) of players from wearing full plate armor. The upkeep on that is insane. So before you start saying that high generation players have an advantage because of upkeep you need to look at it as a whole. I remember when CRPG was older and you literally had a game full of people wearing plate on plated charges. Upkeep on the items that you should be using as a Gen 1 is nothing compared to theirs. Upkeep affects everyone and without it the game would be completely unbalanced towards new people. Do you think it would be a new player friendly environment if as soon as you joined to server in your peasant gear you were confronted by a whole team full of plate wearing cav on plated chargers? No it would be literally impossible for you to do ANYTHING. In short... you are the retard my friend. Learn a little about the history of this mod before you start criticizing something so vital.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: BlindGuy on April 26, 2012, 12:08:45 am
Level 1 characters don't need a money sink, they already have one.

This and your other posts...I shake my head at how you and I are of the same species...


READ, and UNDERSTAND the WORDS, for their MEANING, and then comprehend the end result AS A WHOLE:

If you use gear with a TOTAL value UNDER 25k, you will make money.

If you use gear with a TOTAL value exceeding 25k, you will see the following: 25-30k gear, you might break even, as you push the TOTAL value upwards, you will start to lose more and more money.

This loss of money is INDEPENDANT from your level, your generation, the size of your penis, everything.

THE ONLY THING that can affect how much you make, or lose, is your current multiplier. If you ARE wearing gear over 30k total worth, you should be doing so because you are competent and confidant enough that you are going to secure the victory for your team, thus gaining you a multiplier and ensuring you have a larger income for the time you spend in expensive gear.

LEVEL 1's are NEVER going to be affected by upkeep, because at level 1 you do NOT have the STRENGH or AGILITY needed to use any expenive gear at any rate.

IF as you level up your first gen, you buy gear that will not make you any money, or infact will lose you money, YOU SHOULD NOT USE IT. It wont make you a better player, or a more effective one, the only thing that will happen is players will target you, because you are a threat, or rather, you appear to be threat. Once you have reached retirement age, and you are convinced wearing super expensive gear, you can simply sell your heirloom point. This will give you time to wear that gear, without running out of cash.

That isnt the path I would take, nor anyone who enjoys the game for it's combat system or progression, but many do that. This WILL mean that your secong generation you will be shot. A lot. By archers who, like in reality, are peasants with wood and string, and pay no upkeep, and pewpew you to death in your shiney expensive gear. Thats what THEY LOVE.

The trick to spending time in this game in finding a level of gear you can maintain. Most everyone you see wears gear that matches their playstyle OR abilities. If you see players who wear plate armour ALL the time, you must understand that they CAN, not because they have some secret stash of gold, but because they are able to use their skills in combination with their gear to secure themselves a multiplier, most of the time. When a player uses very expensive gear and isnt a very capable player, it is soon evident, and they are soon broke. The system works, in that if you are enough of a badass to win, you are more able to do that because you are making more money. New/crappy players should just thank their stars when they get put on a team with these players, and organise a gang kill with their teammakes and team ranged to destroy these high ability players when they oppose them.

This is a game balanced between realism and fun play, and the realistic part is that warriors with countless battles in their past have enormous experience, they are tough fighters, they have a great understanding of their weapons and armour, and have mastered the greatest weapon there is, their BRAIN.

Now try and use yours.
I hope this has helped you to understand how random, backward, and ignorant you are being.


Oh, PS: When I started this game, we were ALL peasants, and we had to fight as a massive gang, because gold and XP was earned by killing or being NEAR a kill. No upkeep. This was a fun game, but it was NOT this game: if you had joined that game at this point, you would not post silly rage threads on here, you would just have quit, because we all had the armour we wanted, as an archer I walked around in heavy armour, my longbow and my bastard sword, and I killed everyone, all the time. So did everyone else. We were all overpowered to fuck, with insane amounts of WPF, crazy levels, and most of us had horses too. ALL you could do as a peasant then was stand around, and hope to die in a close enough spot to the centre of the carnage to gain a little gold. It took weeks to get a weapon, months to get armour, and was the least noob friendly game I can imagine short of someone who has never played an FPS being dropped into counterstrike and told to defend A long.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: micah243 on April 26, 2012, 12:09:29 am
Honestly a mod should just lock this thread. This guy is such a retarded close minded troll that his point of view really doesnt need to be heard. He has NO idea what it is actually like without upkeep... Just lock the damn thread.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Kafein on April 26, 2012, 12:09:51 am
Shamlow, to be very clear :

If I wear 0 upkeep equipment at level 30+ at x1, I win 50 gold per tick.

If I wear 0 upkeep equipment at level 1 at x1, I win 50 gold per tick.

If I wear 5k+ upkeep equipment at level 30+, I lose money.

If I wear 5k+ upkeep equipment at low level (that allows me to use that in the first place), I lose the same amount of money.

The only way k/d could influence your income is that it influences the winning chances of your team, which is hardly true as the autobalancer is very far from perfect (so most matches are won because one team crushes the other) and their are 100ish other players on the server that influence the outcome too. Also, good players are teamswitched around.

This adresses one part of your claims.

The other one seems to be

Quote
If I have 1 million dollars, and taxes take 10,000 away, who fucking cares. If I have 20,000 dollars, and taxes take 10,000 I HAVE A PROBLEM. This is the way the current upkeep system works. This is hurting the the POOR PEOPLE(LEVEL1/GEN1) in this analogy more than the RICH PEOPLE(LEVEL 31s).

This is false. You do not earn money by leveling up. Most level 31+ people actually are broke because they can't retire and sell loom points.

Furthermore, upkeep hits everyone the same way. That someone with 1M gold would be less afflicted than someone with 20k in bank is a twist of the human brain.



The best way to minimize your upkeep and win money fast is the same at all levels : light armor, cheap weapon, no horse. The only special thing for new characters is that you have to gather a sum of gold you will use as a buffer for upkeep. Upkeep is random so there are times you will pay a lot and at other times you won't. You need a buffer to avoid going bankrupt when you have a streak of bad luck. That's also the main reason you see a lot of "top-scorers" running around in gear that seems impossible to upkeep for you : they have a big gold buffer, and maybe they earned money through the marketplace.


Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: micah243 on April 26, 2012, 12:11:15 am
Kafein and blindguy, seriously read this guys posts. His point of view will not change regardless of how much sense you talk to him.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 12:12:04 am
Quote
1. Before level 20, you can hardly do much things for your team, so basically you wear peasant gear, which means you already should have gained a reserve of at least 20 k gold.

2. At level 20+ you can start wearing medium gear and help your team, and even with gear worth 20-30 k you make money.

That is my point. Why do new players who are already trying to learn the game have to be hindered so hard, for no reason.

You are agreeing with exactly what I am saying. You are telling new players, Hey, you are useless, run around in peasant clothes dieing all over the place for X amount of time, basically so high level players can feel better about themselves.

I am saying low level players don't matter, they can't do anything. That is the same thing you have been saying. The reason is because they have so much against them already, why do we have to slow them down even more? What does it matter if before level 20 they can wear mid level, hell even the low level gear without slowing down their income?

Why is everyone so afraid of or against helping low level players? Do you not want more people to play this game? Seriously.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: micah243 on April 26, 2012, 12:17:23 am
Dude you are just so freaking retarded. Are you not reading other posts????? I wear 31,000 in gear and i MAKE MONEY at gen 2. I get basically no bonus in money making at Gen 2. I am wearing badass effective gear and I still make money. You CAN make money wearing decent gear even as a new player!

Have you ever played literally any other online MMO type game? Does WoW start you out as a super rich badass??! or can 99% of the guys you meet own you and buy all your shit for pennies to them? Where would any satisfaction from leveling up come from if playing did not get you better gear? Wow... idk what is wrong with you.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: micah243 on April 26, 2012, 12:19:27 am
Furthermore.. At a low level your stats are so low that it doesnt matter if you can afford full plate! you can not wear it! or even if you can, your stats are still so low that you can still be killed easily!
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Kafein on April 26, 2012, 12:19:41 am
Kafein and blindguy, seriously read this guys posts. His point of view will not change regardless of how much sense you talk to him.

I think he does care and wants to understand seeing how long his posts become.

And the only thing he doesn't get is that making a buffer takes two hours at worst.



Also, the peasant stage is a necessary step in your cRPG "career". It's the only thing that survived from the golden age of cRPG and the only thing that keeps this mod from becoming another dull ultra-competitive MP action game. Peasants don't play with the same rules, you aren't supposed to kill people in the first place, and you shouldn't assume you are forced to in order to have fun playing. Try to survive, it's just as satisfying. Also, I can virtually guarantee your first kill streaks will be much more satisfying than if everybody had the same level and same equipment value.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: micah243 on April 26, 2012, 12:22:53 am
Kafien is right. If you want everyone to be equal go play Native. This is for people who want the feeling of accomplishment as they level up and begin to do more damage to the good player. It is great when you level up and can finally start getting some good kills. At level 20 which does not take very long to get to, you can have enough money and can do enough damage to be an asset to your team.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: BlindGuy on April 26, 2012, 12:27:15 am
That is my point. Why do new players who are already trying to learn the game have to be hindered so hard, for no reason.

You are agreeing with exactly what I am saying. You are telling new players, Hey, you are useless, run around in peasant clothes dieing all over the place for X amount of time, basically so high level players can feel better about themselves.

I am saying low level players don't matter, they can't do anything. That is the same thing you have been saying. The reason is because they have so much against them already, why do we have to slow them down even more? What does it matter if before level 20 they can wear mid level, hell even the low level gear without slowing down their income?

Why is everyone so afraid of or against helping low level players? Do you not want more people to play this game? Seriously.

Gear and level ARE NOT THE SAME THING why cant you understand that. ALSO independant from both is SKILL. Sure, there are some players who push to level 34/35 with a shield and a spammy 1hander, this requires no skill at all. But they are the VAST minority:

As a low level player, you are playing a part in this RPG: you are roleplaying a new soldier. You best bet, reguardless of class, is to buy a bamboo spear, get 10 strengh, and run behind the heavies, pokeing their enemies to open their blocks, and keeping horses off.

BUT AS TO LEARN TO THE GAME: You should NOT be coming to this mod if you dont KNOW how to play mount and blade, much less Warband. If you are not a fan of the franchise and are a recent buyer, WHY NOT play the NATIVE for a while? Learn the GAME there, you come here when you are done with that.

I hate to be elitist but thats how I feel. Admittedly, I first got MnB when it was about a euro, there was no hard copy, it was a very different animal. And then years later, WARBAND! omfg multiplayer, I couldnt believe it. Only after many months of honing my skills did I look for mods, and stumbled on this one. At the time, there were not so many good players, I bested 99% of the players in fights once I had a weapon that did dmg. But the game has changed, and it IS for the better.

Currently, you level pretty fucking fast, you gain money pretty fucking fast, you can have your choice of gear PRETTY FUCKING FAST. It IS noob friendly, but unfortunatly, its like any online pvp game: There are those who will see that you are not clued up on the timing, footwork, blocking, and will punish you, not because they dislike you, but because we ALL live for it:

WE ALL LIKE TO DESTROY other players faces. With axes, swords, bows, lances, spears, throwing knives, even with crossbows. We love it. If you want to play in an enviroment where there is LESS epeen waving, 1/ try rageball, lightweight gear is an ADVANTAGE there alot of the time, or 2/ DONT play a game where we beat each other to death as brutally as we are able.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 12:27:56 am
Quote
I hope this has helped you to understand how random, backward, and ignorant you are being.

Alright, if you are going to argue with me about this and call me stupid. The least you could do is type out coherently in your post, or read over it one time to check your grammar. Maybe your first language is not English, I don't know.

Quote
Shamlow, to be very clear :

If I wear 0 upkeep equipment at level 30+ at x1, I win 50 gold per tick.

If I wear 0 upkeep equipment at level 1 at x1, I win 50 gold per tick.

If I wear 5k+ upkeep equipment at level 30+, I lose money.

If I wear 5k+ upkeep equipment at low level (that allows me to use that in the first place), I lose the same amount of money.

This is exactly my point, there is no reason for the level 1 to be hit with any kind of upkeep. It is just slowing him down and making him want to quit the game.


Quote
The only way k/d could influence your income is that it influences the winning chances of your team, which is hardly true as the autobalancer is very far from perfect (so most matches are won because one team crushes the other) and their are 100ish other players on the server that influence the outcome too. Also, good players are teamswitched around.

This adresses one part of your claims.

None of that has anything to do with anything in this thread. Nobody has talked about k/d or even win/lose income differences. They don't matter, only you keep talking about this. I don't know why it is hardly relevant to the actual problem.

Quote
This is false. You do not earn money by leveling up. Most level 31+ people actually are broke because they can't retire and sell loom points.

Furthermore, upkeep hits everyone the same way. That someone with 1M gold would be less afflicted than someone with 20k in bank is a twist of the human brain.

You have to earn money by leveling up, you just stated why in the previous quote. By just standing afk and leveling/gaining gold you are earning money as you level.

The fact that you don't understand how someone with 1million dollar and someone with 20k dollars are effected differently by a tax that hits them both equally in borderline insane. That means you don't understand simple addiction/subtraction much less economics. Why do you think people with higher income and lower income are taxed different in real life? Do you not understand how it would make more sense to make the upkeep% based vs your level in the least to help out poorer/newer players?

Simply stop posting in this thread, because I am not going to talk to you anymore. I see you posting a lot on the forums, and are just trying to get face time, but I am honestly trying to help this game be more appealing to a wider based audience.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 12:30:03 am
Quote
Have you ever played literally any other online MMO type game? Does WoW start you out as a super rich badass??! or can 99% of the guys you meet own you and buy all your shit for pennies to them? Where would any satisfaction from leveling up come from if playing did not get you better gear? Wow... idk what is wrong with you.

HI WOW'S REPAIR COSTS ARE RELATIVE TO YOUR ITEM LEVEL AND YOUR LEVEL IN THE GAME, THAT IS WHY AT LEVEL 10 YOUR REPAIR BILL IS 5 SILVER AND AT 85 IT'S 50 GOLD. THAT'S NOT THE WAY IT WORKS IN THIS GAME, EVEN THOUGH IT SHOULD.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 12:32:43 am
Quote
Currently, you level pretty fucking fast, you gain money pretty fucking fast, you can have your choice of gear PRETTY FUCKING FAST. It IS noob friendly, but unfortunatly, its like any online pvp game: There are those who will see that you are not clued up on the timing, footwork, blocking, and will punish you, not because they dislike you, but because we ALL live for it:

It's not newbie friendly, that is why almost all the reviews hate on it, and all the players hate on it. Except for the 10 diehard fanboys I am talking to at the moment, that are so scared of change they are arguing with themselves.

I am agreeing with almost everything everyone is saying. All I am saying is that the upkeep against lowbies is to high, and should be in the least level based, if it has to be in at all.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: zottlmarsch on April 26, 2012, 12:33:56 am
heres a solution for you friend, why don't you spend more time grinding xp and gold and less time whining on forums, we was all gen 1 once too ya know, in fact I spent about 2 gens just running around with a shirt and knife, ffs man deal with it!  8-)
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: micah243 on April 26, 2012, 12:36:19 am
Lol i wasnt saying WoWs repair costs.. I am saying that ANY MMO does not start new players out on equal footing as high level players who have played for months. In other games dont you wear shitty stuff sometimes so you can save up and get the good stuff? It is the same principle here. You wear some shitty stuff to save up your money until you can buy good armor and afford the upkeep. I can understand your arguement about level based upkeep, but that wouldnt work. Why should a guy who has played for months be punished with higher upkeep because he has invested more time in the game? the way the upkeep system is currently works very well for new and old players alike, you just dont see that yet. New players wear cheaper gear so their upkeep is less. That is how it works. And honesly my Gen 1 by level 15 I was getting kills. The first levels are for you to find what you like weapon wise and to invest in skills.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 12:37:35 am
Quote
Kafien is right. If you want everyone to be equal go play Native. This is for people who want the feeling of accomplishment as they level up and begin to do more damage to the good player. It is great when you level up and can finally start getting some good kills. At level 20 which does not take very long to get to, you can have enough money and can do enough damage to be an asset to your team.

You want the feeling of accomplishment of running through a bunch of peasants with no risk of taking damage and one hitting them. You are right at level 20 you can start doing just fine, you can wear decent gear and not get one hit killed.

All I am saying is holding those peasants back so much is unnecessary. That's it, you don't have to take out upkeep you don't have to take out the grind the money nothing. Just maybe though you should let new players get a better feel for the game, new people aren't going to devote time to getting to level 20 getting demolished for X amount of hours.

Why do you not want to encourage more people to play this game?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 12:38:36 am
Quote
heres a solution for you friend, why don't you spend more time grinding xp and gold and less time whining on forums, we was all gen 1 once too ya know, in fact I spent about 2 gens just running around with a shirt and knife, ffs man deal with it!

Ya, just deal with it who cares, I like to just waste my time. I don't want to try to make anything more enjoyable to anyone else or myself.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: BlindGuy on April 26, 2012, 12:39:03 am
Alright, if you are going to argue with me about this and call me stupid. The least you could do is type out coherently in your post, or read over it one time to check your grammar. Maybe your first language is not English, I don't know.

I hate to be a dick, but:

1/ My first language is NOT english, correct.

2/ In the paragraph complaining about my grammar, you have made 3 grammatical mistakes.


Now, calm down, noone is attacking you, we are trying to help: Upkeep is required for all players, at level 1 you will NOT have any upkeep, unless it is 5 gold on a scythe or somesuch, but making 50 gold a tick, this will not affect you.


We mention winning alot because winning the round gives you MORE money per tick the next round, so upkeep is even less of a problem, thus allowing you to use more expensive gear in security, this is why the loadout menu pops up between rounds. Well, that and it keeps afk's from spawning, and gives you time to adjust your gear to deal with different situations.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: micah243 on April 26, 2012, 12:42:14 am
Okay you understand a little more what we are saying I think. And I think you are a little clearer now to. I can see doing a discount for level 1 players, but that adds a whole new problem. You can retire back to level 1 at level 31. Does the guy who retires back to level 1 still get the upkeep discount? What if he has sold his loom point and is already rich? What if he did not sell it and is still poor? See where the problem comes up?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 12:42:19 am
Quote
Lol i wasnt saying WoWs repair costs.. I am saying that ANY MMO does not start new players out on equal footing as high level players who have played for months. In other games dont you wear shitty stuff sometimes so you can save up and get the good stuff? It is the same principle here. You wear some shitty stuff to save up your money until you can buy good armor and afford the upkeep. I can understand your arguement about level based upkeep, but that wouldnt work. Why should a guy who has played for months be punished with higher upkeep because he has invested more time in the game? the way the upkeep system is currently works very well for new and old players alike, you just dont see that yet. New players wear cheaper gear so their upkeep is less. That is how it works. And honesly my Gen 1 by level 15 I was getting kills. The first levels are for you to find what you like weapon wise and to invest in skills.

Alright, you literally compared WoW to this game. In a conversation about Upkeep/repair costs, they have different names for the same thing. So, I don't know what else to say to you.

Why should a guy who has played for months be punished with higher upkeep because he has invested more time in the game?

That statement seriously blows my mind. Just the fact that you somehow think it's punishment. Better gear = more upkeep.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: zottlmarsch on April 26, 2012, 12:43:48 am
Ya, just deal with it who cares, I like to just waste my time. I don't want to try to make anything more enjoyable to anyone else or myself.

you are too retarted, how is it a waste of time when in the end you benefit from it? do you not understand all the old veterans had to put in hours and hours of gruelling peasant warfare to get to where they are now, of course if you are just planning to play this game for a few weeks and want to ride around in plate with a big sword on a heavy horse etc then just play native as others have stated. you don't get no free ride here, you have to work for your shit.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: micah243 on April 26, 2012, 12:47:22 am
Better gear does equal more upkeep! I know that! I am saying that they should not have to pay more upkeep and have the low level players get a discount on upkeep AND have cheaper upkeep since their gear is worse. You are blowing my mind man with how stupid you are... seriously man...
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 12:47:54 am
Okay you understand a little more what we are saying I think. And I think you are a little clearer now to. I can see doing a discount for level 1 players, but that adds a whole new problem. You can retire back to level 1 at level 31. Does the guy who retires back to level 1 still get the upkeep discount? What if he has sold his loom point and is already rich? What if he did not sell it and is still poor? See where the problem comes up?

I have not changed my stance on anything, you are maybe just actually reading what I am saying. Not to mention I am having to spell every little thing out, just to get you to understand.

Yes, you can retire back to level 1. Yes allowing him to go back to the upkeep discount is fine. Why do you ask? Because this is a player that is already committed to the game. He isn't about to quit. He also can't do a lot of damage at level 1 even with the best gear/looms. Because he is level 1, you can't do jack, he will get destroyed. It's not a big deal, he isn't ruining it for anyone.

All this change would do, is help
Quote
NEW PEOPLE
in the game. Thus increasing(hopefully) the population of the game we all enjoy.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 12:51:19 am
Quote
do you not understand all the old veterans had to put in hours and hours of gruelling peasant warfare to get to where they are now

Ya good call man, everyone should have to put in hours and hours to get a chance to actually play this game. Just because you did it doesn't mean everyone else should have to do it. You should be the first one to say, Hey that was a little unnecessary having the grind be that bad. That isn't what you are saying, you want this game to stay with a steady population of 500 people. Because you are just super cool I guess, and everyone that has the potential to play this game is a retard.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: BlindGuy on April 26, 2012, 12:53:16 am
Also, you dont have to wait to get to high levels, you can make a skip the fun character at any time, instantly level 30, with a free 10k gold to buy some stuff with. Try out a style you are unsure of.


ABOUT getting onehit: You complain more than once about this, being one hit: That wont change by level, only by gear, but the idea of the combat system in mount and blade is that you dont NEED to get hit, this isnt some MMO where you fire your abilites at an opponent while they fire at you, whoever has the highest DPS/HP wins. It doesnt work that way, your blocking speed is NOT affected by being low level, and as everyone here can tell you, as a peasant, all you need to be doing to play your part is to support your teammates. At first this might mean standing behind them poke-pokeing with a pitchfork at any cavalry that try to flank/gank, but as the battle progresses and you find yourself being attacked, just blocking is a MASSIVE help, heres how:

A spammy 2hander is fighting your polespammer/2hander, while they are fighting, stand on your teammates left side, and block all attacks the bad guy makes at you, or at your friends left. This gives your big strong friend an opening, when he WOULD be having to block without you there, to smite that badguy in the face. YOUVE WON! This is a team game, and sure, in nice gear with a massive shiney weapon you look like a badass, but there is NOONE with ANY gear selection that can win in a fight vs an organised and carefully executed gank.


AND ONCE MORE: NOONE AT LEVEL 1 IS AFFECTED BY UPKEEP BECAUSE YOU CANNOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT AT LEVEL 1 YOU ONLY HAVE 3 STRENGH AND 3 AGILITY SO PLEASE STOP IGNORING WHAT IS BEING TYPED TO YOU.


Also, the grind to stop being a peasant takes about 4 hours, if you are VERY unlucky with your gear. So stop whineing. Its fun to be a peasant again, just getting thru a fight unscathed is an achievement, I'm sorry that you feel GEAR=SKILL because it doesnt and never will.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: zottlmarsch on April 26, 2012, 12:54:50 am
Ya good call man, everyone should have to put in hours and hours to get a chance to actually play this game. Just because you did it doesn't mean everyone else should have to do it. You should be the first one to say, Hey that was a little unnecessary having the grind be that bad. That isn't what you are saying, you want this game to stay with a steady population of 500 people. Because you are just super cool I guess, and everyone that has the potential to play this game is a retard.

I'd rather have the current '500' old timers then a bunch of newcomers who don't understand the mod and whine all the time. just saying...

...yes I am super cool, thank you for the compliment kind sir :D
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: micah243 on April 26, 2012, 12:55:24 am
Listen you fucktard retarded mother fucker! If someone is already rich as shit, why when they go retire should they get a discount again??? So they can get MORE money at a discount?? What keeps players from respecing at a certain level so they can go back down to the low levels and grind gold at a better upkeep discount? You are seriously the dumbest mother fucker who ever lived... This is my last post here.

Again, I URGEEEE a mod to just shut this topic down... The guy is literally retarded. And everyone knows retards shouldnt be allowed the right to speak.

Anyone reading this please do not reply any more to this topic... YOU ARE FEEDING THE TROLL!
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: micah243 on April 26, 2012, 12:58:02 am
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Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on April 26, 2012, 01:11:45 am
I agree with Shamlow.

Remove upkeep for people under level 25 at first generation. No need to punish these newcomers, they will receive upkeep later anyway.

(Bring the flames) :o
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Jarlek on April 26, 2012, 01:19:55 am
I agree with Shamlow.

Remove upkeep for people under level 25 at first generation. No need to punish these newcomers, they will receive upkeep later anyway.

(Bring the flames) :o
How odd. I have this strange feeling of deja vu!

EDIT:
(click to show/hide)

EDIT2: Shamlow. Nice of you wanting to improve the mod, but there are some people here you really ought to listen to. The upkeep here is for a very good reason and they explained it. Raging at them doesn't really work. Look, if you write down your arguments in one post (bulletpoints would help out a lot) I can try to help out by fleshing out the various reasons, ok?

That being said. You DO have a point in that this game is too hard on new players. But thrust me, removing upkeep would make it worse. Sure, it also screws new players over, but having NO upkeep would make it even worse. Unless something else took over for upkeep, it would all soon be a) bland and b) completely horrible for new guys. And if you got an alternative suggestion to upkeep, PLEASE post it.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 01:57:20 am
I'm with you. I don't want to take upkeep out altogether, but please for the love of god let's help the new gen1 characters out a little. Taking upkeep off the low levels will not ruin the game, and just maybe it will help get more people into the game. Which would be great for everyone.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 02:06:12 am
I understand upkeep and how it came to be, I've read that thread about respec and how it affected the game. I get why the change in upkeep happened. What I don't think many people realize is the effect it has had on new gen1 characters.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Sarpton on April 26, 2012, 02:25:00 am
Sham I'm a new(ish) player myself and while I agree with some points you make,  I can and DO see the point of upkeep.  As far as I recall you dont pay up keep fist gen till lvl 25.   UNLESS you respec, at that point you begin to pay upkeep no matter what lvl. 


Now I could very well be wrong,  I also think that it takes into account your main/alt status as well.  I.E.  if you are playing an alt you pay upkeep,  if you are on a main that is below lvl 25 with out a respec on record then you do NOT pay upkeep.   And it is a flat 7% chance PER min of a round for armor and your weapon skill also mitigates your weapon upkeep as long as it is above 100 after armor weight calc.

Now if you could agree with me that first gen characters shouldn't pay upkeep to a certain lvl, then you can agree that upkeep DOES serve a purpose with out regard to how much you personally might disagree with its function, yes?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 02:47:52 am
That has been exactly my point this entire time. First gen lowbie players should not be paying any upkeep in my opinion, at least not what they are paying now. 

At the moment they do, I am 22 and paying upkeep. A friend who is level 11 is paying upkeep, I've been paying upkeep I think since level 9. Now if this is somehow a bug, then there is no reason to have this conversation.

Keep in mind, I am not saying upkeep should be completely taken out of the game.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: rustyspoon on April 26, 2012, 02:51:24 am
Money is EASY to get in this mod even as a gen 1 character. My latest alt is level 26 wears 30k in gear and I have 29k in the bank. It's all about managing your money.

If you're using super-expensive gear, of course you're going to go broke. That's the point. Anyway, most people who play this mod DON'T use super-expensive gear. That's how we keep our gold in check. Just because gear is super-expensive doesn't mean it's good. There's a lot of really cheap gear that is fantastic.

There's one thing that I don't think anyone else has mentioned though, arrows have a greater upkeep chance than any other item. So if you're gen 1 and using 3 sets of bodkins, you'll probably go broke pretty fast.

Having 30k gear is more than enough to be competitive in this game. Hell, one of my alts does really well with only 12k in gear.

If you are having trouble keeping money in the bank it's because of what you are doing. Listen to what the people in this thread are saying, they know what they're talking about 'cause they've done it many, many times.

And honestly, if you think THIS is bad, you should have seen how it used to be for new players. You probably would have had a heart attack.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Sarpton on April 26, 2012, 02:59:32 am
Well,  then it looks like you guys are just gonna have to suck it up basically because honestly by the time any change would happen in theory you'll be 2nd gen at least.  So my advice(?)  is just throw on the drz mail get a cheaper weapon and try and have some fun for what it is that's what I did, once you stop focusing on how much it sucks you'll get more enjoyment out of it.  And if that doesn't work Pm me and maybe we can bitch about it to eachother lol.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: BlindGuy on April 26, 2012, 03:08:59 am
A friend who is level 11 is paying upkeep, I've been paying upkeep I think since level 9.

First gen does not pay upkeep till lvl 20 I believe, if you have been and your friend still is, you should post in the Technical problems section of this forum, asking if that is correct, it may well have changed, but as far as I'm aware, gen 1 mains should not be paying till level 20.

If you ARE paying a lot, and dont have time to create a "buffer" of gold, try playing on server 3 (NA 3 or EU 3) for an hour or 2, there are no multipliers but also no upkeep.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Sarpton on April 26, 2012, 03:13:50 am
That's what I said unless you respec then you lose your no upkeep thing.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 03:36:05 am
I paid upkeep before I was level 20, I know have 3 friends under level 20. They are all paying upkeep.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Brrrak on April 26, 2012, 03:40:32 am
Upkeep seems to trigger at:
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 03:53:42 am
I know for a fact, both of those triggers are incorrect.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 26, 2012, 04:30:23 am
Upkeep seems to trigger at:
  • Level 26 and above.
  • Over 10,000 in gold.
They have changed this a while back due to people abusing the system, they would respec before they hit level 26 so they would never pay repairs, and mostly just ran heavy cavalry nonstop until they changed that.

There's a song about it. http://soundcloud.com/excavation_pls/420-kings-of-kd-crpg-rap

from the start of the game you never stood a chance
 
gen 1 black plate war horse and a heavy lance
 

stackin gold steep
 

keep it under level 26
 
stay cheap
 

didn't pay repairs like the sheep
 

quite unique
 

with that armor so sleek
 

respec technique
 

got 2 million deep
 
before they patched it and made us pay upkeep
 
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: OpenPalm on April 26, 2012, 05:04:08 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 07:13:44 am
I'm really glad this thread turned into me arguing with a bunch of trolls. Now none of the Devs/Admins will bother with it or bother worrying about this problem.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Brrrak on April 26, 2012, 07:58:44 am
I'm really glad this thread turned into me arguing with a bunch of trolls. Now none of the Devs/Admins will bother with it or bother worrying about this problem.

I'm really glad op turned into an argumentative troll.  Now none of the Devs/Admins will bother with it, or bother worrying about something that's basically a non-issue.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 08:06:03 am
It's only a non-issue for close minded people, who don't care about the health of a game they are currently playing and enjoy.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 26, 2012, 08:20:12 am
It's only a non-issue for close minded people, who don't care about the health of a game they are currently playing and enjoy.

cRPG has been getting bigger over time, and we have had repairs now for quite some time :)

Just because repairs keep pissing in your cheerios doesnt mean the health of the mod is degrading, if anything this community has flourished since then.

But hey why am I wasting my time posting the facts oh sorry I mean "trolling" you.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 08:24:29 am
I'm online right now, there are less than 200 people online.

By the way, you aren't posting any facts. You have no numbers or logs for any time period. All you are posting is your opinion.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Jacko on April 26, 2012, 08:25:53 am
Upkeep starts at level 25 and/or at respec.

It's a sort of buffer zone for new players to build up some capital. Everyone loses money, it's just a matter of how much. If you're having trouble with upkeep, wear cheaper gear.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 26, 2012, 08:26:43 am
I'm online right now, there are less than 200 people online.

Yes, because you being here for all of a few days, knew the size of the community over a year ago. 120 people is enough to fill a server. Last I checked there was about 90 people in each NA battle and NA siege, a few months ago at this time of day there might be about 100 people online total in just battle, while siege sits empty.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: zottlmarsch on April 26, 2012, 08:28:46 am
Upkeep starts at level 25 or at respec.

It's a sort of buffer zone for new players to build up some capital. Everyone loses money, it's just a matter of how much. If you're having trouble with upkeep, wear cheaper gear.


I paid upkeep before I was level 20, I know have 3 friends under level 20. They are all paying upkeep.

hmmmm, who to believe??? well respected developer Jacko or random guy who joint 2 weeks ago???  :?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 08:31:10 am
Ok, I am under level 25. Why am I paying upkeep?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Jacko on April 26, 2012, 08:31:39 am
Did you respec?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 26, 2012, 08:31:52 am
Ok, I am under level 25. Why am I paying upkeep?

Have you used the respec feature your character at any point?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 08:33:12 am
No, I have not respec'd. Also I know four other people all under level 25, all paying upkeep.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 08:34:45 am
Quote
hmmmm, who to believe??? well respected developer Jacko or random guy who joint 2 weeks ago???

Why would I lie? Why would I be trying to get this fixed?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 08:37:58 am
Seriously, I will give you my skype #, if it will help get this fixed.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 26, 2012, 08:39:58 am
Why would I lie? Why would I be trying to get this fixed?

If this is the case then I would suggest you put in a proper bug report on this forum http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/board,9.0.html or http://bugtracker.c-rpg.net/

I am sure an admin can check into your account and see if this is some crazy bug that only affects you and your 4 friends (get them to post it too!)

This is honestly the fastest way to get any issue resolved, and yes, they do listen, and yes they do look into stuff that is reported. However, ranting with your hands cupped over your ears and calling everyone who even remotely tries to help you in any way a troll or a liar, is no way to get this done, and only distance yourself from the community as a whole, as you are only burning any type of bridge with people who are honestly trying to help you.

PROTIP: Do not go there with the same attitude that you displayed here, I am sure it will get your problem taken more seriously and in a much faster fashion.

I hope I didnt troll you with this post.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 08:42:40 am
No, you have done nothing but act like a 12 year old. It's cool, your name is poophammer I didn't expect anything out of you, but the trolling. Now you are trying to act like you have been trying to help or contribute something for some reason.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 26, 2012, 08:43:09 am
I think I just cracked my skull from facedesking too hard
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 08:44:35 am
Good, maybe it will knock some sense into you.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 08:53:39 am
You don't understand that you haven't actually given me any facts, or you don't understand what a fact actually is. Either way I'm not going to argue anymore, while I'm trying to tell Jacko what is going on.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: aomas on April 26, 2012, 09:21:14 am
STOP THIS MADNESS!

Upkeep is needed game mechanic to make this mod work properly! It allows players to choose their gear wisely looking at stats, price tag, weight and all other elements. So if you wanna be Tank u sure can be but be sure u have a lot money for upkeep.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 09:26:02 am
Seriously, am I the only person on this board who's first language is English?

Also, I am not against upkeep. I'm just against having it affect new/low level players. Which it's not supposed to do, but it is. Hi, welcome to the thread.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: AshTre on April 26, 2012, 09:33:27 am
Seriously, am I the only person on this board who's first language is English?

Also, I am not against upkeep. I'm just against having it affect new/low level players. Which it's not supposed to do, but it is. Hi, welcome to the thread.

Just wear low-mid tier stuff (i.e. Mail Shirts, Dadao, etc...). Even as a new/low level player you can easily make money while being effective if you wear cheap items. Just because one item costs 10k gold in the shop, does not mean it is the best god-like item you can get. Everything has its advantages/disadvantages and they are right in front of you if you care to look.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: aomas on April 26, 2012, 09:34:08 am
No you aren´t, but there are more people with other first languages. Are so proud of having english as your mother tongue or what?
You are so retarted that I stop finding words (of course also because I´m a barbarian whos first language is some primitive dialect)

+1

Yep this mod is played around the globe so you can be pretty sure that many of us don't have english as our first learned languange..
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 09:35:21 am
No, it's because a lot of you talk in really broken English. Making it hard to understand what you are even trying to say sometimes. I can't tell if someone is actually stupid or just doesn't know how to express what you are trying to say.

I'm not a huge bundle of sticks, who is going to make fun of people no using correct grammar or spelling, but it makes it hard sometimes.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 09:36:54 am
Quote
Just wear low-mid tier stuff

My gear currently costs 23k, and I am barely breaking even a lot.

Quote
He will continue running around in plate till he runs out of money, then he will quit, finally.

I have never worn/bought plate, I also don't intend too. I am currently wearing peasant gear to stockpile cash. Something a new under level 30 player should not have to do.

Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Bobthehero on April 26, 2012, 09:37:56 am
Imo upkeep is and alway's been retarded, in a mod where you're supposed to be able to have the build and gear you want, not being able ot use your favorite stuff most of time is kinda retared.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 09:42:36 am
Upkeep starts at level 25 and/or at respec.

It's a sort of buffer zone for new players to build up some capital. Everyone loses money, it's just a matter of how much. If you're having trouble with upkeep, wear cheaper gear.

Look, this is from your Dev. Upkeep starts at level 25 and/or at respec. Yet I am SUB 25, and currently paying upkeep. I have 4 friends all under 25, DOING THE SAME one of which is level 11. Clearly that is not supposed to be happening. Which is the reason for my thread, you should not be taxing low level/gen1s.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Jacko on April 26, 2012, 09:46:12 am
I just tried with a low level gen 1 character and I did not have to pay upkeep. Try making a new character; if the problem persist, then we'll know for sure.

You need a buffer zone for high upkeep gear. Over time, you'll earn money even with very high upkeep costs.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 09:50:29 am
Do you seriously want me to make a new account and low level character to test this? I will just give you my account information, I'm not making this up. I'm level 23 now, but if what you are saying is true I should not have upkeep of any kind yet.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 10:00:45 am
Quote
it takes like 2.03 minutes to test this out.

No, it would take longer than that because I would have to buy an item for like 1k and then wait for a random upkeep tic. Not to mention, I'm not even at home at the moment.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Shamlow on April 26, 2012, 10:05:31 am
I didn't start with a Trident. I started with a butcher's cleaver and like a kitchen knife or something. I thought newbie weapons didn't have upkeep, if they do that is even more hysterical.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Jacko on April 26, 2012, 10:07:38 am
There are other factors involved with upkeep, but generally level 25< gen 1 does not pay upkeep. I asked you to make a new character so you can see this for yourself.

Everything has upkeep.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Sagar on April 26, 2012, 10:08:25 am
The Medieval Knight

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The knight was one of three types of fighting men during the middle ages: Knights, Foot Soldiers, and Archers. The medieval knight was the equivalent of the modern tank. He was covered in multiple layers of armor, and could plow through foot soldiers standing in his way. No single foot soldier or archer could stand up to any one knight. Knights were also generally the wealthiest of the three types of soldiers. This was for a good reason. It was terribly expensive to be a knight. The war horse alone could cost the equivalent of a small airplane. The armor was very expensive. In today's standards a suit would cost the knight the price of a 5 bedroom house, shields, and weapons were also very expensive. Becoming a knight was part of the feudal agreement. In return for military service, the knight received a fief. In the late middle ages, many prospective knights began to pay "shield money" to their lord so that they wouldn't have to serve in the king's army. The money was then used to create a professional army that was paid and supported by the king. These knights often fought more for pillaging than for army wages. When they captured a city, they were allowed to ransack it, stealing goods and valuables.

War is expensive!
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Bobthehero on April 26, 2012, 10:15:07 am
Yes but I can maintain my IRL sword for a relatively cheap price, even 10x that amount to include battle damage wouldn't be that bad.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: chadz on April 26, 2012, 10:23:28 am
I'm really glad this thread turned into me arguing with a bunch of trolls. Now none of the Devs/Admins will bother with it or bother worrying about this problem.

If this surprised you, based on your initial shit spouting, you must be new to the internet.

Welcome!
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Sarpton on April 26, 2012, 10:47:15 am
^ LOL
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Kafein on April 26, 2012, 11:24:10 am
I couldn't read 5 additional pages of much likely nonsense.

Someone suggested him doing an STF char as it seems he wants everything to be immediate and effortless ?
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 26, 2012, 11:38:20 am
I couldn't read 5 additional pages of much likely nonsense.

Someone suggested him doing an STF char as it seems he wants everything to be immediate and effortless ?

TL;DR

He is having problems with repairs

we tried to help him by explaining how to budget

we are all trolls and liars.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Kafein on April 26, 2012, 11:52:46 am
None of that has anything to do with anything in this thread. Nobody has talked about k/d or even win/lose income differences. They don't matter, only you keep talking about this. I don't know why it is hardly relevant to the actual problem.

It seemed to be the only relevant thing to say as what you said afterwards makes no sense :

You have to earn money by leveling up, you just stated why in the previous quote. By just standing afk and leveling/gaining gold you are earning money as you level.

You do not win more gold by playing one minute at level 30 than playing 1 minute at level 1. You are purposefully playing with words to make a point.

The fact that you don't understand how someone with 1million dollar and someone with 20k dollars are effected differently by a tax that hits them both equally in borderline insane.

No it isn't. Your instinct and how the human brain grasps the concept of money are inherently flawed and illogical. Both the 1M guy and the ultra indebt -500k guy are able to buy things worth 10k less in total when they lose 10k. The only difference is that you suppose the 1M guy will not have trouble spending for his "needs", and the 20k guy will if they both lose 10k. But if both were perfectly logical entities they would give the same value for that money.

Why do you think people with higher income and lower income are taxed different in real life? Do you not understand how it would make more sense to make the upkeep% based vs your level in the least to help out poorer/newer players?

The upkeep is based on the assumption that everybody stays in the 27-30 level range more than half their playtime, which is a truism as the xp required for 30 to 31 is equal to the xp needed for 1 to 30. As the level field is extremely balanced already, upkeep does not need to take it into account and only makes a difference between cheap and expensive equipment.

Man you ought to try this mod back when reaching level 25 or buying your first decent weapon was an acheivement. People don't understand they aren't supposed to have even remotely equal stats as others to enjoy a game. Playing as a peasant is different and original. cRPG already is much more "fair" to new players than it ever was, if that makes sense. New players are destroyed by skilled players anyway, even when they have a big advantage in stats and equipment, and it isn't any more "fair", old players had a lot of time to train their skills.

Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Vibe on April 26, 2012, 11:58:34 am
Peasants... why do we, the higher classes of this society, have to listen to their mindless rambling? Someone toss him a coin and be done with it!
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 26, 2012, 12:01:22 pm
Peasants... why do we, the higher classes of this society, have to listen to their mindless rambling? Someone toss him a coin and be done with it!

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Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Kafein on April 26, 2012, 12:02:35 pm
Peasants... why do we, the higher classes of this society, have to listen to their mindless rambling? Someone toss him a coin and be done with it!

Politics.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Brrrak on April 26, 2012, 12:15:31 pm
Aww, shit, I have to do this.  It's been fifteen pages and nothing has worked, so...

I'm a huge bundle of sticks,
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Elmetiacos on April 26, 2012, 12:52:02 pm
I didn't start with a Trident. I started with a butcher's cleaver and like a kitchen knife or something. I thought newbie weapons didn't have upkeep, if they do that is even more hysterical.
You aren't charged upkeep if your character is level 10 or lower - unless you respec the character. All equipment requires upkeep, but newbie stuff is generally so cheap you won't notice - Hot Chick's Turkish robe, for example, costs me a single gold piece. The only exception is if you start with a Nord Nobleman Outfit; that's expensive so you should sell it and buy some cheap armour with the money.
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Jarlek on April 26, 2012, 01:40:58 pm
This kid just don't stop whining, does he?

This kid just don't stop ignoring what people writes, does he?

Fucking idiots, GTFO!
Title: Re: What is the point of upkeep?
Post by: Espu on April 26, 2012, 02:52:01 pm
This thread seems to be about at the end of it's usefulness.