When i was playing game yesterday i saw that annoying infantries taking over game. While i was alone as an archer, i saw 30 infantries coming to me, i didnt hesitate and start shooting but they were doing odd movements to dodge my arrows, and even some of them equipped their shields which i can't shoot trough, When inmy old friendtries are together they are dominating the whole game and it annoys me. Also, i couldnt even shoot them while i was running away from them. ( Honestly archers should have the ability to shoot backwards ) When they catch me they can kill me in one hit, I think archers should be able to take more than 10 hits. And when they wear heavy armors they should become towers and cannot be able to move again.(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
When i was playing game yesterday i saw that annoying infantries taking over game. While i was alone as an archer, i saw 30 infantries coming to me, i didnt hesitate and start shooting but they were doing odd movements to dodge my arrows, and even some of them equipped their shields which i can't shoot trough, When inmy old friendtries are together they are dominating the whole game and it annoys me. Also, i couldnt even shoot them while i was running away from them. ( Honestly archers should have the ability to shoot backwards ) When they catch me they can kill me in one hit, I think archers should be able to take more than 10 hits. And when they wear heavy armors they should become towers and cannot be able to move again.i loled when i read this.....(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
infantry has infinite ammo on their weapons. OP.
Sounds like we need a Stamina Bar + Skill after all :mrgreen:
Yeah, just not sure how you translate accuracy and getting bumped by face hugging into this.
Trying to compare two different game mechanics with each other like that kinda fails.
I will try to lobby a pike like that into the game, let's see how it plays out :mrgreen:
Sounds like an infantry trap to get ranged nerfed again :mad:
Although a stamina system could enrich the game if done well, they got a point about comparing weapons.
What would be the item summary of a unheirloomed rus bow/bodkin arrows couple if it was done with melee jargon ?
- 28p damage
- 2000 range (and this isn't a hard limit, I chose this one because the hit rate is similar to that of a melee weapon at that range)
- can crush through blocks (actually, this is even worse as it will always do so, except if you got a shield and got lucky enough to exactly face the archer)
- 58 speed rating
- difficulty 18 (6 PD)
Then you add the longest stun in the game.
Sounds like we need a Stamina Bar + Skill after all :mrgreen:
Yeah, just not sure how you translate accuracy and getting bumped by face hugging into this.
Trying to compare two different game mechanics with each other like that kinda fails.
I will try to lobby a pike like that into the game, let's see how it plays out :mrgreen:
Ignoring the weaknesses of archery, how cute
I think the hit rate of a rus bow at 2000 range is more or less similar to that of most melee weapon at ~100 range, when you count the dodges and bounces.
People who are getting killed by arrows more than once a map are noobs and should uninstall the game.
Period.
End of discussion.
Lock thread.
Kthxbye.
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Is that all ? I was expecting some rage ...
I agree with some of this. As much as some of the infantry populaetion cry about archers they seem to forget how overpowered the infantry class is. 1 hit kills, mostly.
errrr. not the shooting backwards part. i made the thread sound more serious
The rage factor for the people you hit is just way bigger :mrgreen:
Same with rage factor of said archers when I assassinate them from behind :D
When i was playing game yesterday i saw that annoying infantries taking over game. While i was alone as an archer, i saw 30 infantries coming to me, i didnt hesitate and start shooting but they were doing odd movements to dodge my arrows, and even some of them equipped their shields which i can't shoot trough, When inmy old friendtries are together they are dominating the whole game and it annoys me. Also, i couldnt even shoot them while i was running away from them. ( Honestly archers should have the ability to shoot backwards ) When they catch me they can kill me in one hit, I think archers should be able to take more than 10 hits. And when they wear heavy armors they should become towers and cannot be able to move again.
Still if I could I would force all of the ranged haters to play an archer for a full generation.
Then judge.
Better not. Would lead to at least half the playerbase GTXing the mod. And that would be bad ... or would it ??
Heh, I've tried to play as an archer. I found it incredibly boring and often just dropped my bow and ran into melee. :lol:
Since you run like the wind and can run and shoot for an eternity stunning chasers along the way you're basically untouchable by a major part of the playerbase.
I tried it, too. Started to score one kill after another with a STF character. Like single player or any other game: aim, click, profit. :P
Meow, being an archer is not easy, I know that from tons of playing time as archer. Your awareness need to be even better than what you need as infantry I'll admit. However, it's not the playability that should decide the power of the class. Archery should be hard to play to keep the amount of ranged at an acceptable level. Now, at least when it comes to archers with +3 bow and +3 arrows, they have it too easy. With 18/21 or 18/24 builds there's almost no downside to being an archer since you can 2-4 shoot different armored infantry and run like the wind. The only weak part is your melee capability (which you don't need with 7-8 athletics and low armor) and health. Since you run like the wind and can run and shoot for an eternity stunning chasers along the way you're basically untouchable by a major part of the playerbase. The damage of archers ain't a bad thing, but the combined forces of high athletics and still having massive damage is.
Either bows should be weaker for only 9-10 PD builds to 2-4 shot infantry, because they would be at a disadvantage at kiting and running away, or the bows/quivers should be heavier. As of now the archers can have their cake and eat it too which makes it too appealing to players. I would myself prefer a heavy weight increase on bows and/or arrows (maybe arrows to make 1 stack + a good melee backup a good alternative to keep the kiting down)
Archery needs to be a bit harder. As of now it's too good making it appealing to too many, making archers massively overused (small servers, I'm looking at you)
You still assume though that hitting stuff is anywhere near as easy as it is in melee, which it is not.
This thread is obviously not meant seriously and the balancing of the game should be build around melee, I agree with that - no doubt.
Still if I could I would force all of the ranged haters to play an archer for a full generation.
Then judge.
Trying to make it look like hitting people with a bow/xbow/throwing is as easy as hitting them with melee weapons at melee range is just ridiculous.
I am sure Tzar will jump in here and make sure you all know I used high str builds but for real, after 9 gens of pure melee always between 30str/9agi and 18str/21agi chars I can say that melee is easier but still what the game is focused around.
I understand people get pissed if they get headshot and insta die because it is not a series of blows and them failing to block those but a way different kind of skillset + luck that makes it possible.
People who say ranged should go back to playing CS either never played CS or never played an archer for more than five minutes.
This is not anywhere close to a shooter and you are mainly a support class like pikers and horse archers.
Good players will still be okish with them but getting anywhere close to inf or cav scores is just way way harder than as inf or cav.
The rage factor for the people you hit is just way bigger :mrgreen:
I tried it, too. Started to score one kill after another with a STF character. Like single player or any other game: aim, click, profit. :P
No, archers can't afford athlectics
we do run out of arrows prety quickly in this mod.
wut. Then explain to me, good sir, how archers regularly can outrun even melee chars with 6 ath and medium armor if they can't afford athletics?
1 stack of unloomed bodkins = 15 arrows. Round limit is generally 6 minutes. This means for a round that draws out, if you spawn at the very beginning of the round with 1 stack of bodkins, you can fire an arrow once every 24 seconds and just run out of arrows at the very end. This is the worst possible scenario for running out of arrows.
More average scenario: 2 stacks of unloomed bodkins = 30 arrows. 4 minute round, and you spawn in at the start of the round. With this scenario you can fire an arrow every 8 seconds and just run out as the round ends. The only way you're going to hit that is if you spam fire nonstop.
No, archers can't afford athlectics
- I'm not sure what archers you're fighting with 18/24 builds that can run like the wind... at level 30 an 18/24 build has 3 athletics, 0 PS, and 0 IF so they're sitting at 53 hp.
-18/21 archers will have 7 athletics yes, but they have 3 extra points to put into either PS or IF. Both of those totals are pretty pathetic, so again you're stuck with an archer that will be toast in most melee conflicts and will be dying in 1-2 melee hits. 7 athletics is high but not gamebreaking... besides don't you EU dudes love those agility builds? You can build a completely viable melee build with 8 athletics no problem... 15/24, 18/24, 15/27 are all effective archer huntin' builds that can perform well in melee.
-Your suggestion that bows should be weaker unless they get to 9 or 10 PD is ridiculous and backed without any knowledge about archers; a 10 PD build is impossible for a level 30 archer (most wpf you can get is 138, which isn't enough to get use out of that 10th PD point), and a 9 PD build is fucking awful.
Once again, people seem to be afraid of all the 10 athletics, 10 PD archers running around.
The most epic post ever
Every smart horseman can kill half of your team for 24 seconds. And only this mode have heavy AND fast horses from wet fantasy. (you do not have this crazy loomed horses bonuses in native)
Every good 2H or polearmer can kill other half of your team for same 24 seconds. Say thanks to balance team, that you can have 80+ body armor and 8-9 athletics at same time.
Why your «melee only» servers are always empty?(click to show/hide)
Easiest to play and hardest to master.
You can say that for every class out there. Every class is easy to play. Get on horse and press X, you'll certainly kill some noobs like you who are infantry players. Pick melee weapon and spam like retard, you will kill people with similar skill who don't spam but first skilled opponent will annihilate you. Pick Xbow and shoot in crowd, you'll probably hurt/kill someone.
You can't master any class in c-rpg so we can say it's equally hardest to master all of them. To master melee combat you would have to chamber block perfectly every time, to have absolutely perfect timing and to hit the head every time. No one can do that, not even the best melee fighters we have in this mod. To be perfect xbowmen you'll have to hit heads all the time, no one can do that. Same goes for cav, there are some plenty epic cav but they make mistakes all the time.
Archery isn't any easier nor harder to master than any other class.
dont forget that we have much cav on server a lot of shielders, and today pretty every 2h use throw weapons too. So it is not so safe to be ranged dude.
Cool story man
No, the average build is too viable giving you good kiting abilities and extreme damage at the same time (+3 bows and arrows 2-3 shoots almost all infantry with 6 PD). Archery should be strong, but not give you all options with the same build. That will lead to a lot of people going archer (again) which is the real problem. Archers could've had good kiting abilities and great damage like now if it wouldn't lead to the amount rapidly increase. The small servers have already got the plague, should the big ones get it too?
Master != play 100% perfect.
Sure.
STF = 10k
Meaning you start with Horn + Barbed (at best) not loomed, which means kill after kill is not gonna happen.
You can say that for every class out there. Every class is easy to play. Get on horse and press X, you'll certainly kill some noobs like you who are infantry players. Pick melee weapon and spam like retard, you will kill people with similar skill who don't spam but first skilled opponent will annihilate you. Pick Xbow and shoot in crowd, you'll probably hurt/kill someone.
You can't master any class in c-rpg so we can say it's equally hardest to master all of them. To master melee combat you would have to chamber block perfectly every time, to have absolutely perfect timing and to hit the head every time. No one can do that, not even the best melee fighters we have in this mod. To be perfect xbowmen you'll have to hit heads all the time, no one can do that. Same goes for cav, there are some plenty epic cav but they make mistakes all the time.
Archery isn't any easier nor harder to master than any other class.
You can say that for every class out there. Every class is easy to play. Get on horse and press X, you'll certainly kill some noobs like you who are infantry players. Pick melee weapon and spam like retard, you will kill people with similar skill who don't spam but first skilled opponent will annihilate you. Pick Xbow and shoot in crowd, you'll probably hurt/kill someone.
You can't master any class in c-rpg so we can say it's equally hardest to master all of them. To master melee combat you would have to chamber block perfectly every time, to have absolutely perfect timing and to hit the head every time. No one can do that, not even the best melee fighters we have in this mod. To be perfect xbowmen you'll have to hit heads all the time, no one can do that. Same goes for cav, there are some plenty epic cav but they make mistakes all the time.
Archery isn't any easier nor harder to master than any other class.
Quoted for later use. I shall bookmark this next to what Meow said of the different skills required for classes.
You almost got me there, holmes.
But it was an old alt character that already had a few levels and a few thousands of gold. I wanted to try a funny build and created a long bow archer without melee capabilities. I was able to keep up a positive ratio most of the time for about a few days. And I was slow as hell and could neither run nor had I a melee weapon equipped.
Quoted for later use. I shall bookmark this next to what Meow said of the different skills required for classes.
Can I ask what the name of that char was?
Edit:
NvM found it, char has 4 Kills 4 Death and was STFed and last used on the same day...
Just wow...
Good testing indeed.
I also want my shield to disintegrate everyone that touch it, ffs fix that shit!.
Can I ask what the name of that char was?It must be a glitch. Clearly he kept a positive ratio for about 2 days. Meaning he averaged 2 kills a day before dying 4 times in a row.
Edit:
NvM found it, char has 4 Kills 4 Death and was STFed and last used on the same day...
Just wow...
Good testing indeed.
I think from here on I'll keep this saved as proof that all of Joker's archery comments are, as most of us already thought, useless unfounded comments by a pike man that uses low armor :D
Now offence intended, from now on I just wont read his longgggggg comments :)
Thank you meow! Long live the data base backups! :D
It must be a glitch. Clearly he kept a positive ratio for about 2 days. Meaning he averaged 2 kills a day before dying 4 times in a row.
Meow had STR heavy polearm build with lots of armor and IF. He's also from Germany which means he has good ping. With such build you need to block a little bit and rest of the time you can spam attack mindlessly and you'll do fine.
I don't know what game you're playing but my shield already disintegrates whenever anyone touches it.
Oh. You meant the other way around. My bad.
Possible he had other archer chars, this was just the only deleted gen2 STF char that exactly fit his description and I found it to be a bit too much of a coincident.
Also makes me a bit sad since I thought he was basing his info on actual playing multiple days with that char...
I mean it's not exactly a lie saying " I was able to keep up a positive ratio most of the time for about a few days." because since that day he actually was able to keep a 1:1 ratio :mrgreen:
It's amazing how you completely ignore what builds I actually had and just keep claiming that I only used STR builds all the time :mrgreen:
That's like me saying you only use strength builds!
But it's fine, I already pointed out that your ideal game would be everyone at the same speed using 2h swords and taking exactly as many hits as everyone else.
Ain't gonna happen though, dream on.
I'd be an archer if I didn't have to pay nearly 50 million XP for it.
Just imagine...
Level 33 (35 569 612 xp)
Strength: 15
Agility: 27
Hit points: 50
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 5
Shield: 0
Athletics: 8
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 5
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 8
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 95
Polearm: 1
Archery: 160
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
longsword, hornbow, bodkins
or this
Level 33 (35 569 612 xp)
Strength: 21
Agility: 21
Hit points: 56
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 7
Shield: 0
Athletics: 7
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 5
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 7
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 95
Polearm: 1
Archery: 150
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
Mallet, hornbow, bodkins.
Anyway your build is boring. All can block you, cavalry can couche you, pikemans always put out your eye, crushers crush you... etc...
I think ranged should be buffed, they do laughable damage atm
I think ranged should be buffed, they do laughable damage atm
I was one-shot today with 18 strength, 40 body armour and full health from an arrow. I know, no ironflesh at all, but one-shot in that armour with that strength from an arrow? That's bullshit
you got one shooted by a guy with at least 10 PD or something, it is impossible to get one shooted below 6 PD. 7 PD can make you lose 60% hp. 12 PD = 1 shot kill.
Also, bagge with 6 PD took 80 %, just saying. That's fair enough, maybe a tad too high but as long as I don't get one-hit by a bow it's mostly fine. I think 2-4 is good on medium infantry tbh.
All archers deal different dmg, true: But you cannot include Bagge in any list, because, remember, he is a Nord, and they dont have to level up, nor leave their characters at lvls 30-33, they just choose w/e amount of wpf they want and w/e stats they decide they want. Be smart.
But: watch them when you see them, see the speed of feet, the dmg dealt and the obvious wpf...think for yourself what you want.
I am a horse archer with 5 PD and MW Horn bow + MW bodkin and to be honest i need to shoot 6-7 times to kill a tincan with 55 armor . Life is very hard as HA and i always get killed by enemy rangers. Still HA is only good for killing enemy horses
Wow, he will really be tearing it up with those 15 (17 MW) arrows!
Psst....Archers carry quivers. That build is a 2 Hander with an anti-Cav option if needed.
I am a horse archer with 5 PD and MW Horn bow + MW bodkin and to be honest i need to shoot 6-7 times to kill a tincan with 55 armor . Life is very hard as HA and i always get killed by enemy rangers. Still HA is only good for killing enemy horses
I am a polearmer with mw ashwood pike and to be honest I love it - true story.
You should drop to a MW Tatar for the accuracy and shoot while charging for the speed bonus instead of the circle the wagons technique. They will drop much sooner.Sir, there you are wrong.
really? I just can speak out of own experience as a target, some time a HA charged me at full speed and his tatar arrow took 60 % of my health, and that with 21 str, 4 IF, fully lordly heavy armor. And no, it was not a headshot.
Just saying. Bad luck?!
These fucking inmy old friendtries are just ruining the game for me, I go to kill the enemy and they're all just these infantry doodoolords, makes me very buttstrated. PLS NERFSOLUTION= make horses stronger: more health 30 more for each horse, make archers get polestun and bonus against shield!
make archers get bonus against shield!
Also, bagge with 6 PD took 80 %, just saying. That's fair enough, maybe a tad too high but as long as I don't get one-hit by a bow it's mostly fine. I think 2-4 is good on medium infantry tbh.
facepalm.jpg
That's not how things work around here. Wookie would be level 50 if that was the case.