Hiltslashes and spinthrusts don't negate 1h at all.
FIX TEH RETARTED DERPHANDERS (2H) LIGHTSABER HILTSLASHING AND 1HANDERS UBER GLANCING AT CLOSE RANGE. PLEASE. THE ILLOGICAL IDEA OF THE SHORTER WEAPON BEING WORSE AT CLOSE RANGE THAN THE ZOMG ANIME 2H PEW PEW DERP FUCK SWORDS, WHICH GET BETTER PRACTICALLY, MAKES BABY RAPTOR JESUS WEEP TEARS OF ANGUISH. AND YES I ABUSED THE HOLY BEJEEZUSHIT OUT OF THIS FACT MYSELF EVERY TIME I'VE GONE DERPHANDER FOR A GEN, WHICH WAS ALL OF THIS LAST GEN BEFORE RESPECC'ING THIS MORNING. I KNOW I'M A HYPOCRITE FOR ABUSING SOMETHING I COMPLAIN ABOUT BUT FUCK MAN, WHY WOULDN'T YOU ABUSE IT IF IT'S THERE?
fix the models so the first 1/3 of 2h'er/polearms weapon length dont do ANY damage....ya know...like in the real world
That sounds really nice, Paul...
but cmp lazy
My suggestion which will improve 1h position in the food chain is still the same, 2x multi for head hits.
Funny fact though, when picking up a 2h without any prof in it, I had a much easier time to block and counter attack. It is just so slow, it's rather easy to chamber.
I have done the same thing many times. Often getting frustrated by, skilled granted, 2hers that I just sheath my 1her and pick up a 2her with 1 wpf and have so much of an easier time fighting people. Maybe I've just played a 2her for so long that it's just more comfortable for me as it never glances so I don't have to worry about much in terms of positioning or distance.I do not get it though.. pretty sure you use langes and that tends to not glance for me.
Also agree to urists idea about buffing kicks slightly and working on shield bash..
trolls trolling, faileshmatroll, trolls but the troll is fail.
My 2c about hiltslashing. I think it must be possible for weapon with curved, sharp edge, like katana or chinese blades. But not for ridiculous long straight swords like German\Danish family.
Buff 1H stabs? No way! They're so fucking easy to use and give massive damage (easy to put in the head) Also, I find one-handers to be very good at face hugging range unless I fight some filthy kicker, like I am. :(
They are slow as hell and wiff at a reasonable range.
My 2c about hiltslashing. I think it must be possible for weapon with curved, sharp edge, like katana or chinese blades. But not for ridiculous long straight swords like German\Danish family.
Also I wonder, where someone find info about swords with such lenght?
This is source of our German GS http://www.myarmoury.com/bill_swor_alb_munich.html
Good sword with 107cm lenght of blade. Not 123cm like we have in game.
I have seen onehanders do some crazy hiltslashing aswell, and they are painful! Hiltslashing needs to be fixed.
what, maces? 1h swords can't hiltslash
Maybe when you hit the head with a left-right swing against someone with very low headarmour?
yes but 1h swords are basically all blade, they have a very very tiny hilt
Tor, the EU hiltslash pioneer/first aboozer, able to wield a long ass axe like it was made of pure bamboo is afraid this might influence his playstyle..
Leshma want only 1handers with double damage\headhit ability? In this case it's interesting suggestion. This way oneshot left swing of Steel pick will became «Oneshot» left swing of all 1H weapons. Great, balance wise suggestion. You win Leshma.
My 2c about hiltslashing. I think it must be possible for weapon with curved, sharp edge, like katana or chinese blades. But not for ridiculous long straight swords like German\Danish family.
Also I wonder, where someone find info about swords with such lenght?
This is source of our German GS http://www.myarmoury.com/bill_swor_alb_munich.html
Good sword with 107cm lenght of blade. Not 123cm like we have in game.
I just don't get the QQ.Is this a copypasta from some other thread. I could swear I've read this post earlier.
Hiltslash CAN be countered; with proper footwork it's nothing more than something that gives you an opportunity for a free hit.
If you're not comfortable with the techniques for countering it properly, then just blocking twice often throws off the 2h.
Dear Devs:Thank you for bringing this up. Let's hope they do something with it.
Going through the duel server for the last 45 minutes, granted vs a skilled player (even if he is a bundle of sticks :P), and having my 1her (no shield, those are for my old friends) pretty much negated by facehugging hiltslash/derpstab bullshit from light saber two handers has given me recourse to plead this singular case with you as best I can.
FIX TEH RETARTED DERPHANDERS (2H) LIGHTSABER HILTSLASHING AND 1HANDERS UBER GLANCING AT CLOSE RANGE. PLEASE. THE ILLOGICAL IDEA OF THE SHORTER WEAPON BEING WORSE AT CLOSE RANGE THAN THE ZOMG ANIME 2H PEW PEW DERP FUCK SWORDS, WHICH GET BETTER PRACTICALLY, MAKES BABY RAPTOR JESUS WEEP TEARS OF ANGUISH. AND YES I ABUSED THE HOLY BEJEEZUSHIT OUT OF THIS FACT MYSELF EVERY TIME I'VE GONE DERPHANDER FOR A GEN, WHICH WAS ALL OF THIS LAST GEN BEFORE RESPECC'ING THIS MORNING. I KNOW I'M A HYPOCRITE FOR ABUSING SOMETHING I COMPLAIN ABOUT BUT FUCK MAN, WHY WOULDN'T YOU ABUSE IT IF IT'S THERE?
That is all. Thank you for your time.
Too much agility. Decrease the damage to force more str and/or increase the weight. Maybe that way 2h won't be like soap anymore. I'm fine with the swing speed but the ability to accelerate and change direction that fast is retarded. Humans aren't flies. 2h are humans. 2h aren't flies. Yet they are in the game.Have you ever seen Greifenherz or Tor playing at all? They hiltslash twice as much and fast as.. GTX for instance does. Polearms actually are great for hiltslashing.
They are slow as hell and wiff at a reasonable range.
Mainly i use short swords, so why i can not simply stab them in the face (well i could, but then i have the same stab exploite like 2h and polearms)?
Removing the hiltslash would make combat even more of a dull 'block, attack, block, attack' affair.
Combat should be made faster, harder, and less predictable. This change would make it slower, easier, and even more predictable than it already is.
Its called teamwork, we know your autoblocking self isnt used to the concept. Cant block well-timed multiple attacks from different vectors.Killing a single opponent shouldn't require two people. Besides that, teamwork between competent players is already an almost guaranteed win against a single opponent.
Its called teamwork, we know your autoblocking self isnt used to the concept. Cant block well-timed multiple attacks from different vectors.You should dismount your armoured 1h horse and show us how 2h is done.
Its obvious devs play 2h and dont want to fix a rather large and obvious problem with the game. Just another reason why new players dont want to join.
Its called teamwork, we know your autoblocking self isnt used to the concept. Cant block well-timed multiple attacks from different vectors.
Its obvious devs play 2h and dont want to fix a rather large and obvious problem with the game. Just another reason why new players dont want to join.
God I'm so dumb, I have no idea what you just wrote there.22
22:D
Now I feel smart like you guys :D
Each one of them has a name that begins with "P"
tl;dr it's fine.
Each one of them has a name that begins with "P"
Hmmm... what advantages does a shielder have against a good 2her?
Well, I mean in a 1v1 duel. I feel like shields only lasts for so long, and it slows you down... (I hate putting my shield like huscarl on my back to duel, it obscures my vision... anyone else have that problem?) The faster weapon speed is balanced by the lower damage and the 2h's ability to hiltslash... I do like the left to right swing, though a good 2h should already aim for the head instinctively... To me, it just seems 1h does not have an outright advantage, though, I guess that's how it should be? 2h being dominant melee?
Dunno, as 2h, I always thought shielders were the easiest melee class to fight. Haven't been 2h for a while though.
3) Being killed by an over head while I was sneaking up on some one to kick them in the back. They also then killed the guy they were trying to over head... Pretty much 2 kills one shot.
Not much can be done, unless the modders can mess with how damage is modified according to the hit detection distance. If they can, the variation in damage as a function of the relative distance along the blade (0--100%) should scale less as the weapon is shorter (i.e. smaller difference in damage between 0 and 100% of the reach). Dagger length weapons should not be affected by this mechanism at all.
What language is that? Python?
It's easy to do coding wise. It's just difficult to balance it correctly and once 1h gets softer bounds, 2h and polearm will cry rivers.
It's easy to do coding wise. It's just difficult to balance it correctly and once 1h gets softer bounds, 2h and polearm will cry rivers.
Well, by default the 1h, 2h and pole share the same sweetspot bounds.Isn't this determining the factor due to the stage of the animation during which the hit was detected (using anim_progress)? I was talking about the modification due to the distance to the hit relative to the length of the weapon (hilt vs. tip).(click to show/hide)
Could be split so 1h gets a less bitchy stab but that would need some work to get it done correctly. But cmp lazy and me too.
1h have allready been buffed enough just cus majority of 1handers sux, theres nothing wrong with the stab, if u actually hit the target...
There is no reason why stabbing with a pole or a 2h should be easier than with a 1h sword, so buff 1h stab or nerf 2h and pole stab.I'd like to come with a counter-argument to this: Spears. That's it. But all the other 2h and poles, yeah. You got my support.
Well, by default the 1h, 2h and pole share the same sweetspot bounds.
Could be split so 1h gets a less bitchy stab but that would need some work to get it done correctly. But cmp lazy and me too.
The question is if cmp can be arsed.
Well, a polearm thrust is actually "hiding" behind the body of the attacking agent before it reaches the "good" animation stage and so it prevents premature contact :). The 1h animation on the other hand usually makes contact too early if executed conventionally. The animation itself doesn't really fit with the bounds. "Turning the stab in" just means timing the contact so it happens during the "good" animation stage.
I do think 1h stab bounds should be seperated from polearm and 2h. The question is if cmp can be arsed.
What I am blatantly rageposting about is that 1her (me) gets facehugged by 2her (him) and LOGICALLY I should have the advantage. Instead the majority of my swings from the shorter weapon (1her) glance, while the longer weapon (2her) deals full damage to me without glancing. This left me with 3 options:
Facehug: He had advantage
Mid range him: We were even, though his damage is higher per swing (along with weapon stun as you noted)
Long range: Advatage to him obviously.
I don't know what it is, but even when I'm a 2her my first instinct against a 1her is to facehug the shit out of him to force glances while I hiltslash for full (and even deal damage to him with my backswings when we're circlestrafing at close range). It just doesn't make sense to me. I understand it's just how the game works, but allow me the chance to ragepost about the illogical nature of this situation (IE: 1her glances, 2her lightsabers at facehug range).
Again though, yes this is just a rage post as I have come to learn this facet of combat will probably never change. :P Just venting really.
Probably a symptom of plate armour being way too cheap. One never saw that much plate in native, but apparently for many in CRPG too many horses = not ok, while plate everywhere= all fine and dandy. In native where repurchases were frequent and plate to horse prices were logical (plate being more expensive than most horses) one never saw that much glancing. With plate everywhere the raw damage stats on 2 handers matter a lot more than the range malus to damage.
In fact, some large weapons like the greatsword were more expensive by themselves than most horses.
The other solution will be balance closer to WFAS where one handers were very fast and 2 handers were slow but damaging.
If you make them even slower noone will use them anymore.
http://www.luminarium.org/medlit/medprice.htm
no european nation has ever had an "all cavalry" army. Even during the 100 year war you see the french using "men at arms" that ride into battle on horses but dismount to fight. European nations that have a large cavalry contingent tended to be in large aristocratic nations that have a large peasant class to support the upper class. This allows the nobility to hire more retainers and household guards, who tend to also be mounted to keep up with the lord. England, with it's citizen militia and yeoman longbowmen, did not have the same degree of feudalism, and thus cannot support a large cavalry army as other nations. However, at crecy the english managed to field 4000 knights and men at arms, out of a total of 21000 troops, which is more than enough for it's role as exploiters of broken lines.
We all know horses were horrendously expensive in england, being an island and all that, but move somewhere else in europe where you have horses coming out of the wazoo, and there you would find them to be relatively inexpensive while swords or armour would need a king's ransom. These are the places where an all mounted army was the norm. CRPG seems to conform to this stereotypical medieval image based in london.
I wish this "london" crpg one size fit all prices could change, say by having a location variable for chars. Those who enjoy the oversized 2 hand and plate nonsense can choose the german states, while people wishing to play sensibly could choose the regions of modern turkey for reasonable horse prices. These locations could also affect item availability.
No european army had an all cavalry army if and only if your europe ended at the Rhine. And even on the side of the Rhine you are talking about, we had chevauchees, which were pretty much 100% mounted detachments, although not everyone fought on horseback.
But what I am trying to get across is that there is nothing wrong with a 100% mounted army. It does not look wrong, contrary to the declarations of some. The amount of plate in crpg should however raise eyebrows.
Yes but should not steppes and arabians be a lot cheaper given the all cav armies in Turkey? Was going to take our interesting discussion to the PMs, but then I get a "Turkey is not Europe" jaw dropper. How about the formerly non Christendom Eastern European parts?
Do you get angry when faction rotation in native breaks up non stop swads versus nords to include Khergits and Sarranids?
There... are... several.. sub-cultures... of Turkey... Like Seljuks... Or Ottomans... who reside in... different parts... must resist... urge... failing...
hur dur?
Some parts of Turkey including whole sub-cultures are in Europe... You can't just say "Does not count as European."
Some parts of Turkey including whole sub-cultures are in Europe... You can't just say "Does not count as European."
ehm..NOehm...YES
Something needs to be done to remove the hiltslashing, it's currently the dumbest thing in cRPG.
It's really very simple. If you know how to turn into your swings properly and your footwork is good, it's pretty much impossible to hiltslash you. If not? Just block twice in a row, solved.
You are right, what you said was indeed very simple to understand, but it was also wrong. I understand that you don't want your special attack to be taken away, but don't you feel kind of dirty abusing an obviously broken game mechanic? It's almost worse than using a crossbow.
OMG, get better, noob.
Yes, of course, this is the proper answer, balance broken game mechanics with player skill. I am glad we have such wisdom in our ranks.
Broken how?
Oh god, forget I mentioned it. I have a headache from trying to figure out your reasoning. It's either too elaborate for me to understand, or it's simply a shameless stunt of a hiltslasher, trying to protect his best source of kills.Unless I'm mistaken, Xant is a 1h.
Oh god, forget I mentioned it. I have a headache from trying to figure out your reasoning. It's either too elaborate for me to understand, or it's simply a shameless stunt of a hiltslasher, trying to protect his best source of kills.
Unless I'm mistaken, Xant is a 1h.
There is nothing broken about castor swings. They are not difficult to counter (even with 1 wpf) if you are paying attention. They serve to break up the dull 'block, attack, block, attack' rhythm of fights.
When I play 1h, I'm far more afraid of opponents who can consistently land kicks than I am of opponents who can castor.
Because no one tells it, how do i counter this and for what i have to looking for?It usually goes like this:
As a side note, this actually creates a pretty interesting mind game. The counter to the castor is pretty easy to chamber (being an immediate swing), so the castor footwork can be imitated to trick your opponent into an easy chamber. Cyranule is the only person I've ever really seen do this.
Sry that iam such a noob, but wth is hiltslashing?
It usually goes like this:
1) Enemy facehugs you.
2) Enemy starts a sideswing, and strafes in the same direction as the swing.
3) After getting blocked, the enemy immediately starts a swing in the opposite direction, and switches strafe directions.
You can tell somebody is probably going to castor from steps 1 and 2.
As a 1h, you can counter it by strafing in the same direction of the second swing (away from the weapon), and either left swinging or overheading. If you left swing, start the swing as close as you can to his head without risking a glance.
Alternatively, if you're good at kicking (I am not), you can kick him.
As a side note, this actually creates a pretty interesting mind game. The counter to the castor is pretty easy to chamber (being an immediate swing), so the castor footwork can be imitated to trick your opponent into an easy chamber. Cyranule is the only person I've ever really seen do this.
ähh So Hiltslashing is what you described in 1-3?or the thing after that?
Iam confused.Either this was never used against me or I didnt notice it at all.
ähh:D
STR_Decky_Smile (or maybe I confuse him with some other STRange meat) tries to chamber follow-ups (hiltslash in child speak). He's usually pretty fucked when holding the second swing for a few milliseconds.
STR_Decky_Smile (or maybe I confuse him with some other STRange meat) tries to chamber follow-ups (hiltslash in child speak). He's usually pretty fucked when holding the second swing for a few milliseconds.
Sorry lol. When Szymzack(WV/the_Grey) started using it on Ndition duel server we needed a name. Since he was facehugging and strafing while doing those it looked like he was attacking with the hilt of his Greatsword, hence I coined it "hiltslash". :P
I believe I've done chamber hiltslashes before, pretty much unblockable :D
:D
I just try keep to distance/use good footwork, works for me with high ath.
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As a 1h, you can counter it by strafing in the same direction of the second swing (away from the weapon), and either left swinging or overheading. If you left swing, start the swing as close as you can to his head without risking a glance.
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