Blatant rage about 2h facehugging uber power

[Gorath]

Dear Devs:
Going through the duel server for the last 45 minutes, granted vs a skilled player (even if he is a bundle of sticks ), and having my 1her (no shield, those are for my old friends) pretty much negated by facehugging hiltslash/derpstab bullshit from light saber two handers has given me recourse to plead this singular case with you as best I can.

FIX TEH RETARTED DERPHANDERS (2H) LIGHTSABER HILTSLASHING AND 1HANDERS UBER GLANCING AT CLOSE RANGE.  PLEASE.  THE ILLOGICAL IDEA OF THE SHORTER WEAPON BEING WORSE AT CLOSE RANGE THAN THE ZOMG ANIME 2H PEW PEW DERP FUCK SWORDS, WHICH GET BETTER PRACTICALLY, MAKES BABY RAPTOR JESUS WEEP TEARS OF ANGUISH.  AND YES I ABUSED THE HOLY BEJEEZUSHIT OUT OF THIS FACT MYSELF EVERY TIME I'VE GONE DERPHANDER FOR A GEN, WHICH WAS ALL OF THIS LAST GEN BEFORE RESPECC'ING THIS MORNING.  I KNOW I'M A HYPOCRITE FOR ABUSING SOMETHING I COMPLAIN ABOUT BUT FUCK MAN, WHY WOULDN'T YOU ABUSE IT IF IT'S THERE?

That is all.  Thank you for your time.

[Xant]

Hiltslashes and spinthrusts don't negate 1h at all. The real advantage of 2h is that they can get in three hits against your one easily, so more chance for mistakes. (Slash->Stunned->Slash again->Backpedal, thrust). The combo's pretty predictable though and thus easier to block.

The real disadvantage of 1h in dueling is kicks. Against a good kicker, you're forced to stay at max distance and can't pull off the hard-to-follow feints at facehug distance. Certainly doesn't make dueling impossible, just slows the pace down by a great deal.. and 2h has the advantage when fighting at max distance, naturally (as it should be).

tl;dr it's fine.

[Gorath]

Hiltslashes and spinthrusts don't negate 1h at all.

What I am blatantly rageposting about is that 1her (me) gets facehugged by 2her (him) and LOGICALLY I should have the advantage.  Instead the majority of my swings from the shorter weapon (1her) glance, while the longer weapon (2her) deals full damage to me without glancing.  This left me with 3 options:
Facehug:  He had advantage
Mid range him:  We were even, though his damage is higher per swing (along with weapon stun as you noted)
Long range:  Advatage to him obviously.

I don't know what it is, but even when I'm a 2her my first instinct against a 1her is to facehug the shit out of him to force glances while I hiltslash for full (and even deal damage to him with my backswings when we're circlestrafing at close range).  It just doesn't make sense to me.  I understand it's just how the game works, but allow me the chance to ragepost about the illogical nature of this situation (IE: 1her glances, 2her lightsabers at facehug range).

Again though, yes this is just a rage post as I have come to learn this facet of combat will probably never change.    Just venting really.

[Vibe]

I agree that hiltslashing is a gay thing.. that being said I love to use it :3

[indigocylinder]

With 1h at close range use overhead or turn into a backhand. If those bounce you've messed up your footwork.

[Digglez]

fix the models so the first 1/3 of 2h'er/polearms weapon length dont do ANY damage....ya know...like in the real world

[Snoozer]

i would think that the 1h would be THE LAST THING to glance in close quarters

my beef is lulstabs and spin stabs

so yes it should be fixed i hate glancing its derp i have to footwork nonstop to counter it whenever i go 1h,matter of fact its borderline mandatory for each attaack

[Wookimonsta]

FIX TEH RETARTED DERPHANDERS (2H) LIGHTSABER HILTSLASHING AND 1HANDERS UBER GLANCING AT CLOSE RANGE.  PLEASE.  THE ILLOGICAL IDEA OF THE SHORTER WEAPON BEING WORSE AT CLOSE RANGE THAN THE ZOMG ANIME 2H PEW PEW DERP FUCK SWORDS, WHICH GET BETTER PRACTICALLY, MAKES BABY RAPTOR JESUS WEEP TEARS OF ANGUISH.  AND YES I ABUSED THE HOLY BEJEEZUSHIT OUT OF THIS FACT MYSELF EVERY TIME I'VE GONE DERPHANDER FOR A GEN, WHICH WAS ALL OF THIS LAST GEN BEFORE RESPECC'ING THIS MORNING.  I KNOW I'M A HYPOCRITE FOR ABUSING SOMETHING I COMPLAIN ABOUT BUT FUCK MAN, WHY WOULDN'T YOU ABUSE IT IF IT'S THERE?

this is funny to me, so i vote no

[Leshma]

Well, if you stay at distance and use your reach many duelists will refuse to duel you calling you names such as noob, s-key hero, coward... cause it's obvious that long greatswords are meant to be used for face hugging and trying to get into enemy's model where he can't block in most cases

Yeah I agree, 2H is lame because strongest points of that style of fighting are:

- mindless spam or making an invisible barrier instead of learning how to block
- hiltslash or glorified spam technique
- other game mechanics exploits such as mentioned going through the meshes...

Making precise cuts and stabs in the head will grant you whooping 1.2 damage multiplier so why bother... you can become a str spammer which means you can take up to eight normal hits and each one of yours can potentially be lethal for your enemy...

Also forgot to mention famous 180 degree swings which means just keep spamming even if your enemy is behind you're still gonna hit him with full force of your spam...

[Moncho]

When duelling as a 1her, I have realised actually the best course of action (against not very good players) is just to run into and out of their reach and have high agility. This way you have a chance to hit them, even though it will not damage much and you will just end up being 1hit (2 if youre lucky) after having hit the bundle of sticks 5-6 times (depends on your skill). This is an unviable option, however, against some better 2hers, who will just lolstab you.
But it is the only decent tactic I have been able to develop. That said, I agree with you, fix the hitslashing!

[Okkam]

fix the models so the first 1/3 of 2h'er/polearms weapon length dont do ANY damage....ya know...like in the real world

ANY damage - it's little extreme, but something like 5-15 blunt would be honest
But even with this 2H or Pole still can slash your legs

[Paul]

I think it's fine. It shouldn't really be really balanced around dueling and on battle a 1hander usually brings a shield that has battle-related advantages.

The only thing I'd do is adding a more direct weapon unrelated counter to kicks. I noticed that punishing kicks as a 2hander is really easy thanks to the reach. So whenever I expected a kick I could often just rotate around the kicker from a rather safe distance and land an overhead from behind. It's not that easy with a 1hander, especially not with a short one. Earlier in Warband an anticipational thrust could punish a kick. But it doesn't really seem to work anymore that well.

I'd probably increase the offensive abilites of kick a bit with allowing a small time window where turning is allowed and in return let a well timed down parry counter the kick. Holding down block won't work, it would only trigger if the down parry is in a correct animation stage when the kick connects. Maybe then a reflected kick stagger or even a knockdown would be nice.

I'd make it harder to reaction-counter a kick than chamberblocking is now though, making it a mostly anticipation based thingy. Dunno what to do with shields though. Guess they are fucked. Maybe shield bash as counter. But cmp too lazy anyway.

[Xant]

That sounds really nice, Paul...

but cmp lazy

[Dezilagel]

I've played both and from what I've experienced 1h are more powerful in close range due to animations/headhits/pure speed.

Sure, a shorter weapon means it's harder to hit/not glance on your opponent, but then this can be offset with proper turning. Random glances are much rarer now, if you glance it's probably your own fault.

I do too facehug noob 1h to force glances, but then any 1h with a little skill will just punish you hard for trying that.

One problem that I see though is armor and 1h. You do deal a crapton of damage with those headhits, but against heavier armor, they kind of become your main source of damage as bodyhits do very little. Although this is a problem for all classes, 1h got it worst. (obv)

Also; what Xant's been saying.

[Spawny]

This has been my biggest frustration in the 2 weeks I spent on the duel server to polish up my manual blocking.

Wearing a brigandine, with a 21/15 build it was HARD AS FUCK to keep up with for instance GTX with his 21/18 build (iirc). The number of 2h's I had to block up to 3-4 times in a row to get myself in such a position I could actually hit back without being hiltslashed was rediculous.
It was really hard just to get my timing and footwork right, only to prevent getting hit by the second attack right after blocking the first and trying to counter.

I would get killed by sideswings while nearly standing behind my opponent.

The only reason I could sometimes win, was because left-right hits often hit the head and I learned how to facestab and hit heads with the right-left swing too.

Using a shield would actually decrease my chance of winning, as it would make me slower and apparently it's rather common to get hit through your shield (using knightly heater).

Funny fact though, when picking up a 2h without any prof in it, I had a much easier time to block and counter attack. It is just so slow, it's rather easy to chamber.