cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Patricia on August 28, 2011, 04:00:52 am

Title: The List.
Post by: Patricia on August 28, 2011, 04:00:52 am
PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST BEFORE POSTING
  It's for your own good.

So far, the comments I've read are very shortsighted, and are made pretty much by people who see a nerf toward their class, and make a gigantic hoot about it, while secretly slobbering at the prospect of a different class getting nerfed.
Quoting this for good measure.

As for the no jumping I would say if the player is above a certain weight limit they will be unable to jump instead of nobody can jump.
Good example of what a post should be, constructive criticism.

Disable penalties from rain. If impossible, disable rain.
Remove bamboo spear, long spear, pike.
Lances become couch only.
Lances reworked statswise for couch only.
Full polearm turning on horseback.
Remove stagger.
Implement comprehensive slot system.
Revamp upkeep to constant per tick.
Standardize horse HP & armor (base HP, armor, +armor only on armoured, etc).
Rebalance horse HP & armor (less armor, more HP).
Horse speed & maneuverability reduced when injured.
Remove majority of armored horses.
Native animations.
Plate either removed, or very expensive (and slot-heavy).
Only one-handers with scabbards (bastard swords qualify), bows with scabbards, and crossbows are sheathable; no doubling of sheath slots.
Add transition to sheathe an item before being able to draw a new one.
Add minimum duration required to sheathe weapon.
Crossbows lose their readied bolt when sheathed.
Throwing weapons become up to 3ammo unsheathable.
Rework throwing stats to better fit the pre-melee role.
Fix throwing axes stick-in model (or remove them entirely).
Spear-type throwing weapons become longer.
Remove lightsaber on all animations (notably overheads).
Color-based uniforms for each team based on team banner, including shield color.
Rebalance items based on logic and not stupid shit.
Rework armor common distribution for 60% light, 30% medium, 7% heavy, 3% plate.
Replace heirlooms with blacksmithing.
Weapon length is calculated -5cm from tip (pick-style weapons use center of pick tip).
Twohanders above 105 length have polethrust.
Increase average melee WPF, more benefits for higher WM.
Add disarm mechanic based on comparing WPF, weapon weight & length between opponents.
Blocking for extended periods of time deals flat damage to self based on WPF and duration.
Holding attacks for extended periods of time deals flat damage to self based on WPF and duration.
Weapon blocks are cancelled once they block an attack.
Replace crushthrough with bonus against shields.
Shield skill is only used as a requirement for shields, in-game Shield skill is 0.
Remove jumping.
Remove horse jumping.
Remove ladders from Battle.
Rework maps to reflect these changes.
Horses are reduced to a light gallop, trot, walk, or are completely stopped when bumping/knocking over infantry depending on the horse.
Fix horse charge hitbox.

Horsemen take % damage of health based on velocity upon horse's death.
Bucklers mounted on arm instead of held in hand.
Automatically start at 9 Strength 9 Agility and begin gaining stat points at level 14.
Make Strategus map large enough that positioning and travel is significantly important.
Knockdown on items with 5+ weight only.

This list is assuming WSE never gets implemented, or I would do some really off-the-wall shit.

This will also alienate a shitload of people probably, because people hate changes, especially in video games.

I also understand that the following:

Add disarm mechanic based on comparing WPF, weapon weight & length between opponents.
Blocking for extended periods of time deals flat damage to self based on WPF and duration.
Holding attacks for extended periods of time deals flat damage to self based on WPF and duration.

Are iffy, and I thought they would just add more depth to the list, but they're not necessary.

Was also to eliminate endless block battles because they're boring, and because someone holding his swing for 60 seconds while you hold your block for 60 seconds waiting for the other to do his move is also pretty stupid.

Another iffy suggestion would be instakilling the horses whenever they bump an infantry at full speed, I think an unarmored courser charging an infantry in armor full fucking speed should get pretty fucking hurt, so damage to the horse depending on the speed of the horse is also an idea, also fix hit boxes, I hate getting bumped by unknown forces because the horse while close to me, didn't actually get anywhere close to touching me.

Horses should also be slowed down alot when they charge the fuck out of someone.

Horses take damage if they occupy the space of infantry (i.e bumping).
Horses die if they knock someone over.
Infantry die if they get knocked over by a horse.

Replace with:
Horses are reduced to a light gallop, trot, walk, or are completely stopped when bumping/knocking over infantry depending on the horse.
Fix horse charge hitbox.


Had to replace this fucking thing in the actual list because everyone is fucking stupid.


Not sure what your problem with the pike is. It is far slower then the others, it can only stab, and the animation has a 1 second lag before you are even allowed to block with it.

I think your problem with long spears is clouding your judgement.



@Relit

I remove those because
1: The ways people play with them are fucking stupid
2: so that COUCH-ONLY CAV wouldn't be fucking crippled because of stupid pike shit
3: because of the fact that facing someone with these things is completely unfun with any weapon.

PIKE USER ENCOUNTERS PIKE USER? LOL WOW THAT'S FUN.

They deserve no place in this game, if you want to support teammates? Yeah? Fine. Get a fucking Bill or a Long Voulge, they don't fuck up the engine as much, any weapon over 160 reach is usually broken due to shitty game mechanics and the shitty engine, Boy do I love Serrated blades chainsaw wooden shafts.

I'll read this all later, but I like the lances being couch only. Nerf the cav!

I'll wait until you fully read the list, because while not a buff it is not entirely a nerf.

Same, but 2 things stand out just by skimming it...

"Horses die if they knock someone over.
Infantry die if they get knocked over by a horse."

lol

As I have said to earthdforce, and Loki in the Wipe thread, it would be a good idea if you actually read the entire post, this is something else that I have developped on in my post, but obviously you didn't read it.

These seem interesting or good, the rest seem pointless or bad.

Chainsaw pike is so broken it's unbelievable. It would be nice to have pikes, as they're period, but if they can't be fixed, we don't have byzantine grenades either for some reason.

Infantry die if they're nocked over? Full support.  :lol:

"No jumping whatsoever" suggestion is amazing. This isn't 1993.

Infantry dies to full speed charges, not bumps.
This is also subject to change with the new horse bumping suggestion I edited into my original post.

And yes, no jumping, as if people in combat actually jumped and did shit that we do in this game, the jumping in this game put olympic athletes to fucking shame, if that makes any god damned sense (it doesn't if you're too slow and stupid).

Most of these suggestions are retarded.

Yes, as I've said, this list will probably alienate most of the community because people are against change, specially in video games, you are just another one in the massive flock of alienated sheeps.

The fact that you provide absolutely no argument or don't elaborate on anything makes me not even take you seriously, a quick oneliner for a post with 1000+ characters, fucking brilliant.

Penalties for rain, you mean movement speed or dmg for ranged here? I would be for if this was about the movement speed, dmg reduction is somewhat understandable.

Remove bamboo spear, long spear, pike. - nah, we need those to take care of whorses and to have something to dance around with our poledancing characters

Lances become couch only.
Lances reworked statswise for couch only. -if only lances, no problem there :)

Full polearm turning on horseback. -this was removed from 90 to 40degrees in order to somewhat balance cav, i would leave it as it is, good cav gets kills with lancing anw, bad cav is bad no matter what.

Remove stagger. - totally in, even tho i think this is hardcoded, but it is retarded to be spamstunned by them uberfast poles, like, shortened spear

Implement comprehensive slot system. -cannot imagine any other than we have now tbh, if you got some ideas, please more specifically :)

Most of the horse changes, i do not have any opinion as i do not play cav, light cav goes down quite fast, heavy goes down slower, just the damage of bump seems too much.

Twohanders above 105 length have polethrust. - cool with this one

My shift is atm ending, i started to post this way too late, gonna go thru rest of the list and post my concerns/opinions from home.
Some of those might indeed look "retarded" to people, but hey, cmon, we are in beta, we need ALL the feedback for the dev team we can get, and perhaps from the discussions opened here the dev team might actually get some ideas or pushes in the right direction  :P

I added the removel of bamboo spears/pikes/longspears because I think it goes hand in hand with  lances becoming couch only, and specifically because of the poledancing circusfighting bullcrap, it wouldn't gimp melee because couches if you know how, are easier to deal with than thrusts, and at the same time it wouldn't gimp cavalry by getting crippled to the moon with 300 reach pikes against your locked-to-a-cone couch.

And yes, it would only be for lances, spears should be fine and still have a thrust.


As for the comprehensive slot system, all I could give you is some sort of exemple.

Make the slot system universal, make it 200 slots, give absolutely EVERYTHING in the game a certain amount of slots, heavier armor will obviously use more slots, so you won't be able to go running around in full plate with let's say; a Flamberge or a Great Long Bardiche.

This would take alot of tweaking, but it could also be used as a placeholder for actual balancing to weapons, a weapon's too OP but it's only getting fixed in the next patch or you can't be assed yet (happens alot with the current CBADEV)? Up how much slots it uses so you'll have to sacrifice something else for whatever the OP weapon is, possibly survivability.

Oh, also for the rain I meant both, mostly because it rains so god damned much and the movement and damage reduction is stupid when it happens on like 50% of maps, hence the remove movement/damage reduction OR just entirely remove rain if that can't be done.

Hmm.

These are the points I can totally agree with, most of these should make it ingame.

First of all, the lance angle nerf screwed lancers over, so they (yeah I'm no lancer anymore) had to adapt, the result: Even more backstab kills, because a frontal charge is almost suicide without a VERY heavy horse.

Stagger obviously has to go, I'm a polearm user but I want this to be gone.

A drawing delay when you want to quick-switch would screw over those annoying crossbow/2h hybrids and other guys who just got caught empty handed. I like it, no surrel quickswitching.

Another good idea for nerfing those who use a Crossbow as a shotgun or sidearm, is the idea of the falling bolt. Supporting it 150%.

Throwing is kinda the underdog of ranged, that's true. Still there are people who can manage to be good with it, but a look into the stats wouldn't hurt anyone.

Balancing based on logic, or at least common sense is another good one. Nice Example would be my weapon, the Elegant Poleaxe.

At stock, this weapon has the same stab damage as a Long Spear(26p). Other poleaxes start at 29-31pierce. Just weird.

Okay, for this the 2h elite lobbyists will hate me, but why not? The style of that stab would totally screw you over in a battle, it's just not how a Great Sword of such length should be used.

AGI needs love, and you point this out with the worst AGI skill right now, Weapon Master.
It has the worst scaling in the entire game right now, after a certain level it hardly effects anything.

And the last one.. this is the one I instantly agreed with. Ladders have to go from battle. Why?
Some people say that it's tactical and whatever. Yes they're used for tactical ambushes and flank attacks rarely on Nord Town, and other maps. But 90% of time they just being used by ranged so that they can roofcamp for an entire match, being unharmed.

This totally messes up balance, and needs to go.

These are all the good points  I can agree with, or have something to say about.

Good to know that you agree on some points, I don't expect any of this stuff to even go live, but if it ever does, be it a few points or all of them, I think it would change the game for the better, nothing can be perfect, I don't expect to solve world hunger or fix the economy with all this, but I'm sure implementing stuff on this list would fix portions of the game, making it more enjoyable for everyone.

I'm with Berethorn on this one. I've finally read the whole post, and the cav changes are the biggest and, to me, the most ridiculous.
These changes would be a severe blow to (and might even, as Berethorn put it, "kill") 1 handed cavalry.

Sorry, Zapper. I'll do that right now.
gayest requests ever. patricia, die plox
horses die if they horsebump too hard? More like slightly injured while trampling retards
TLDR - rubbish suggestions from another whiner, move along nothing to see here
it is very clear that you're a friendly archer, a lot of the changes would really help friendly archers, especially the cav changes
Cav changes are dumb.

As are most of these in general. And no, I'm not writing a long arse post to explain why. Plenty of people can see from first glance why.
i agree on the points most others do, the ones that make sence and that should already be in the mod. but the horse getting killed because of a bump is retarded, it's not realistic and will totally kill 1handed cav, so stay off my class! :evil:

I see that none of you guys actually read the entire god damned post, as I've said before, I already developped on the subject of horses and the bumping.

Just because I'm THAT nice, I'll copy paste it just for all of you wonderful guys!


Horses take damage if they occupy the space of infantry (i.e bumping).
Horses die if they knock someone over.
Infantry die if they get knocked over by a horse.

Replace with:
Horses are reduced to a light gallop, trot, walk, or are completely stopped when bumping/knocking over infantry depending on the horse.
Fix horse charge hitbox.


With maybe a certain amount of damage to the horse depending on the speed it goes.

Long post by a new player it seems. New as in, doesn't have over 2000 hrs of Warband, 10 years of Mount and Blade, 2 years of crpg.

All these ideas seem fine, but most are not a possibility due to engine limitations, balance issues, and TBH, fun.

If you consider a new player anyone who didn't play Warband for over 2000 hours, Mount and Blade for 10 years and cRPG for 2 years then sure, I do have close to 2000 hours, I do have 1 year of cRPG accumulated and I did play mount and blade for several years.

Since there's no more bamboo spear, long spear, and pike, how do you expect infantry to survive when facing a lancer with his couched lance ?
Overall, some good ideas already suggested but not accepted/done because of the warband engine :
-horsemen receiving damage based on horse speed, when the horse dies
-xbow on the back needs to be reloaded before being used
-more time needed to sheath a weapon (unsheating seems okay)
-no ladders for battles (or at least, i would have made it as : your own team can't destroy it's own ladders. Only the opposing team can. So if you put a ladder, it will stay till being destroyed by ennemies or till next round. Frustrating to come to the ladder and see the xbowuser on top of it destroying it, before calmly reloading/shooting again... )
-More interesting WM.

Some ideas a bit retarded though.

Couched lances are much much easier to deal with than actual thrusts from a long ass lance, also, awlpikes, bills, long voulges, etc will all still be available to kill horses.

still it's obvious that your opinion as a friendly archer(not friendly archer FFS!) is spoiling this post as a neutral one, cuz i saw from the first few ideas that you were a friendly archer, so not legitimet for me.

I never played an archer for an extensive amount of time, all I have is a level 18 archer that I never play, there's no real fix to archers because all they need is a damage/missilespeed/whatever tweaking, since their mechanics aren't crazy broken

ROFL, that sentence renders your entire thread invalid, lance thrust is the single easiest thing to avoid, lance only cav who are not couching can ONLY backstab, since even those of us who daggers and other "noblock" items scoff at lancers when they try to stab, cavalry is ALREADY an ambush only class unless you have a plated charger and NOONE around has ANY polearm.

As to the removal of the long polearms, cause the shaft is also a hitbox: that applies to ALL weapons with a stab, and 2h abuse this broken mechanic much more than pike and spears do. Stop complaining that noone has read your entire post before replying: Most people wont bother, as soon as they see ONE ridiculous suggestion, they loose interest.

Also, try joining a gym or something if you really believe the jumping in crpg is cartoonish. I WOULD like to see plate armoured guys jumping only a few inches up, but as to low armoured guys, if you really think people cant jump that far....

Except on non-long polearms and weapons, the wooden shaft isn't several kilometers long, also the jumping makes no sense, there's nothing else to say about it, stop trying to argue about that shit, I get people in motherfucking plate jumping OVER my character's head on flat fucking terrain, as I said, it puts olympic athletes to fucking shame.

A lot of these suggestion are complete crap, pretty much all the "unsheathable" are. Throwing can't sheath? Yeah, lets make a low-damage, short range, terrible accuracy weapon suck even more... Some of these are ok, but they have been already mentioned.

Refer to the very first fucking sentence in big bright letters of my first post.

your "list" has no organization, its just a fucking list of changes you want to implement without providing reasoning, until after you've been criticized.

try organizing it better so that people can skim to the part that affects their class and the reasoning for the change implementation, and maybe then people will actually read

No, it's a deterrent for stupid fucks, if you don't want to read the entire post then just get out and don't post, thank you very much.

You know what's really stupid? People complained in the new faces patch about the lance angle, now it's actually IN THE GAME and they're not bitching anymore. derp. And alienate all the polearms guys, yeah take away the precious stagger and remove all the exploit weapons, abububu we can't play polearms anymore. But it's just as I expected, the community shits on it, idea goes south, etc, Community is shit.

I just don't give a single fuck if they don't read my post, it's just when they don't read THEN reply with ignorant fucking posts because ADHD illiterates as Gafferjack put it so well.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Earthdforce on August 28, 2011, 04:02:08 am
I'll read this all later, but I like the lances being couch only. Nerf the cav!
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: TurmoilTom on August 28, 2011, 04:14:40 am
I'll read this all later

Same, but 2 things stand out just by skimming it...

"Horses die if they knock someone over.
Infantry die if they get knocked over by a horse."

lol
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Patricia on August 28, 2011, 04:15:57 am
I don't want to fill this thread with my posts, so I'll do like the other and just update my first post with my answer to peoples.

Actually, I'll just post them in both the OP and a new post.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Patricia on August 28, 2011, 04:45:18 am
I'll read this all later, but I like the lances being couch only. Nerf the cav!

I'll wait until you fully read the list, because while not a buff it is not entirely a nerf.

Same, but 2 things stand out just by skimming it...

"Horses die if they knock someone over.
Infantry die if they get knocked over by a horse."

lol

As I have said to earthdforce, and Loki in the Wipe thread, it would be a good idea if you actually read the entire post, this is something else that I have developped on in my post, but obviously you didn't read it.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: MeevarTheMighty on August 28, 2011, 05:02:27 am
Remove bamboo spear, long spear, pike.
Full polearm turning on horseback.
Remove stagger.
Horse speed & maneuverability reduced when injured.
Rework throwing stats to better fit the pre-melee role.
Rebalance items based on logic and not stupid shit.
Add disarm mechanic based on comparing WPF, weapon weight & length between opponents.
Replace crushthrough with bonus against shields.
Horses take damage if they occupy the space of infantry (i.e bumping).
Infantry die if they get knocked over by a horse.
Horsemen take % damage of health based on velocity upon horse's death.
Knockdown on items with 5+ weight only.

These seem interesting or good, the rest seem pointless or bad.

Chainsaw pike is so broken it's unbelievable. It would be nice to have pikes, as they're period, but if they can't be fixed, we don't have byzantine grenades either for some reason.

Infantry die if they're nocked over? Full support.  :lol:

"No jumping whatsoever" suggestion is amazing. This isn't 1993.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Earthdforce on August 28, 2011, 05:07:23 am
As I have said to earthdforce, (snip) it would be a good idea if you actually read the entire post. (snip)

I love you too :D
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Patricia on August 28, 2011, 05:09:01 am
These seem interesting or good, the rest seem pointless or bad.

Chainsaw pike is so broken it's unbelievable. It would be nice to have pikes, as they're period, but if they can't be fixed, we don't have byzantine grenades either for some reason.

Infantry die if they're nocked over? Full support.  :lol:

"No jumping whatsoever" suggestion is amazing. This isn't 1993.

Infantry dies to full speed charges, not bumps.
This is also subject to change with the new horse bumping suggestion I edited into my original post.

And yes, no jumping, as if people in combat actually jumped and did shit that we do in this game, the jumping in this game put olympic athletes to fucking shame, if that makes any god damned sense (it doesn't if you're too slow and stupid).
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: D_the_Barbarian on August 28, 2011, 05:48:10 am
Most of these suggestions are retarded.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Patricia on August 28, 2011, 05:51:56 am
Most of these suggestions are retarded.

Yes, as I've said, this list will probably alienate most of the community because people are against change, specially in video games, you are just another one in the massive flock of alienated sheeps.

The fact that you provide absolutely no argument or don't elaborate on anything makes not even take you seriously, a quick oneliner for a post with 1000+ characters, fucking brilliant.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Cepeshi on August 28, 2011, 05:59:26 am
Penalties for rain, you mean movement speed or dmg for ranged here? I would be for if this was about the movement speed, dmg reduction is somewhat understandable.

Remove bamboo spear, long spear, pike. - nah, we need those to take care of whorses and to have something to dance around with our poledancing characters

Lances become couch only.
Lances reworked statswise for couch only. -if only lances, no problem there :)

Full polearm turning on horseback. -this was removed from 90 to 40degrees in order to somewhat balance cav, i would leave it as it is, good cav gets kills with lancing anw, bad cav is bad no matter what.

Remove stagger. - totally in, even tho i think this is hardcoded, but it is retarded to be spamstunned by them uberfast poles, like, shortened spear

Implement comprehensive slot system. -cannot imagine any other than we have now tbh, if you got some ideas, please more specifically :)

Most of the horse changes, i do not have any opinion as i do not play cav, light cav goes down quite fast, heavy goes down slower, just the damage of bump seems too much.

Twohanders above 105 length have polethrust. - cool with this one

My shift is atm ending, i started to post this way too late, gonna go thru rest of the list and post my concerns/opinions from home.
Some of those might indeed look "retarded" to people, but hey, cmon, we are in beta, we need ALL the feedback for the dev team we can get, and perhaps from the discussions opened here the dev team might actually get some ideas or pushes in the right direction  :P







Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Patricia on August 28, 2011, 06:07:29 am
Penalties for rain, you mean movement speed or dmg for ranged here? I would be for if this was about the movement speed, dmg reduction is somewhat understandable.

Remove bamboo spear, long spear, pike. - nah, we need those to take care of whorses and to have something to dance around with our poledancing characters

Lances become couch only.
Lances reworked statswise for couch only. -if only lances, no problem there :)

Full polearm turning on horseback. -this was removed from 90 to 40degrees in order to somewhat balance cav, i would leave it as it is, good cav gets kills with lancing anw, bad cav is bad no matter what.

Remove stagger. - totally in, even tho i think this is hardcoded, but it is retarded to be spamstunned by them uberfast poles, like, shortened spear

Implement comprehensive slot system. -cannot imagine any other than we have now tbh, if you got some ideas, please more specifically :)

Most of the horse changes, i do not have any opinion as i do not play cav, light cav goes down quite fast, heavy goes down slower, just the damage of bump seems too much.

Twohanders above 105 length have polethrust. - cool with this one

My shift is atm ending, i started to post this way too late, gonna go thru rest of the list and post my concerns/opinions from home.
Some of those might indeed look "retarded" to people, but hey, cmon, we are in beta, we need ALL the feedback for the dev team we can get, and perhaps from the discussions opened here the dev team might actually get some ideas or pushes in the right direction  :P

I added the removel of bamboo spears/pikes/longspears because I think it goes hand in hand with  lances becoming couch only, and specifically because of the poledancing circusfighting bullcrap, it wouldn't gimp melee because couches if you know how, are easier to deal with than thrusts, and at the same time it wouldn't gimp cavalry by getting crippled to the moon with 300 reach pikes against your locked-to-a-cone couch.

And yes, it would only be for lances, spears should be fine and still have a thrust.


As for the comprehensive slot system, all I could give you is some sort of exemple.

Make the slot system universal, make it 200 slots, give absolutely EVERYTHING in the game a certain amount of slots, heavier armor will obviously use more slots, so you won't be able to go running around in full plate with let's say; a Flamberge or a Great Long Bardiche.

This would take alot of tweaking, but it could also be used as a placeholder for actual balancing to weapons, a weapon's too OP but it's only getting fixed in the next patch or you can't be assed yet (happens alot with the current CBADEV)? Up how much slots it uses so you'll have to sacrifice something else for whatever the OP weapon is, possibly survivability.

Oh, also for the rain I meant both, mostly because it rains so god damned much and the movement and damage reduction is stupid when it happens on like 50% of maps, hence the remove movement/damage reduction OR just entirely remove rain if that can't be done.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Christo on August 28, 2011, 06:19:20 am
Hmm.

Full polearm turning on horseback.
Remove stagger.
Add transition to sheathe an item before being able to draw a new one.
Add minimum duration required to sheathe weapon.
Crossbows lose their readied bolt when sheathed.
Rework throwing stats to better fit the pre-melee role.
Rebalance items based on logic.
Twohanders above 105 length have polethrust.
Increase average melee WPF, more benefits for higher WM.
Remove ladders from Battle.

These are the points I can totally agree with, most of these should make it ingame.

First of all, the lance angle nerf screwed lancers over, so they (yeah I'm no lancer anymore) had to adapt, the result: Even more backstab kills, because a frontal charge is almost suicide without a VERY heavy horse.

Stagger obviously has to go, I'm a polearm user but I want this to be gone.

A drawing delay when you want to quick-switch would screw over those annoying crossbow/2h hybrids and other guys who just got caught empty handed. I like it, no surrel quickswitching.

Another good idea for nerfing those who use a Crossbow as a shotgun or sidearm, is the idea of the falling bolt. Supporting it 150%.

Throwing is kinda the underdog of ranged, that's true. Still there are people who can manage to be good with it, but a look into the stats wouldn't hurt anyone.

Balancing based on logic, or at least common sense is another good one. Nice Example would be my weapon, the Elegant Poleaxe.

At stock, this weapon has the same stab damage as a Long Spear(26p). Other poleaxes start at 29-31pierce. Just weird.

Okay, for this the 2h elite lobbyists will hate me, but why not? The style of that stab would totally screw you over in a battle, it's just not how a Great Sword of such length should be used.

AGI needs love, and you point this out with the worst AGI skill right now, Weapon Master.
It has the worst scaling in the entire game right now, after a certain level it hardly effects anything.

And the last one.. this is the one I instantly agreed with. Ladders have to go from battle. Why?
Some people say that it's tactical and whatever. Yes they're used for tactical ambushes and flank attacks rarely on Nord Town, and other maps. But 90% of time they just being used by ranged so that they can roofcamp for an entire match, being unharmed.

This totally messes up balance, and needs to go.

These are all the good points  I can agree with, or have something to say about.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Kenji on August 28, 2011, 06:23:44 am
I'll read this all later, but I like the lances being couch only. Nerf the cav!
I guess that won't do much to me since I've been a long time fan of Great Lance 8-)
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Patricia on August 28, 2011, 06:25:36 am
Hmm.

These are the points I can totally agree with, most of these should make it ingame.

First of all, the lance angle nerf screwed lancers over, so they (yeah I'm no lancer anymore) had to adapt, the result: Even more backstab kills, because a frontal charge is almost suicide without a VERY heavy horse.

Stagger obviously has to go, I'm a polearm user but I want this to be gone.

A drawing delay when you want to quick-switch would screw over those annoying crossbow/2h hybrids and other guys who just got caught empty handed. I like it, no surrel quickswitching.

Another good idea for nerfing those who use a Crossbow as a shotgun or sidearm, is the idea of the falling bolt. Supporting it 150%.

Throwing is kinda the underdog of ranged, that's true. Still there are people who can manage to be good with it, but a look into the stats wouldn't hurt anyone.

Balancing based on logic, or at least common sense is another good one. Nice Example would be my weapon, the Elegant Poleaxe.

At stock, this weapon has the same stab damage as a Long Spear(26p). Other poleaxes start at 29-31pierce. Just weird.

Okay, for this the 2h elite lobbyists will hate me, but why not? The style of that stab would totally screw you over in a battle, it's just not how a Great Sword of such length should be used.

AGI needs love, and you point this out with the worst AGI skill right now, Weapon Master.
It has the worst scaling in the entire game right now, after a certain level it hardly effects anything.

And the last one.. this is the one I instantly agreed with. Ladders have to go from battle. Why?
Some people say that it's tactical and whatever. Yes they're used for tactical ambushes and flank attacks rarely on Nord Town, and other maps. But 90% of time they just being used by ranged so that they can roofcamp for an entire match, being unharmed.

This totally messes up balance, and needs to go.

These are all the good points  I can agree with, or have something to say about.

Good to know that you agree on some points, I don't expect any of this stuff to even go live, but if it ever does, be it a few points or all of them, I think it would change the game for the better, nothing can be perfect, I don't expect to solve world hunger or fix the economy with all this, but I'm sure implementing stuff on this list would fix portions of the game, making it more enjoyable for everyone.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Glyph on August 28, 2011, 09:19:13 am
i agree on the points most others do, the ones that make sence and that should already be in the mod. but the horse getting killed because of a bump is retarded, it's not realistic and will totally kill 1handed cav, so stay off my class! :evil:
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Overdriven on August 28, 2011, 11:21:48 am
Cav changes are dumb.

As are most of these in general. And no, I'm not writing a long arse post to explain why. Plenty of people can see from first glance why.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Glyph on August 28, 2011, 11:37:56 am
it is very clear that you're a my old friendcher, a lot of the changes would really help my old friendchers, especially the cav changes
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on August 28, 2011, 11:54:19 am
TLDR - rubbish suggestions from another whiner, move along nothing to see here
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Bulzur on August 28, 2011, 12:27:43 pm
Since there's no more bamboo spear, long spear, and pike, how do you expect infantry to survive when facing a lancer with his couched lance ?
Overall, some good ideas already suggested but not accepted/done because of the warband engine :
-horsemen receiving damage based on horse speed, when the horse dies
-xbow on the back needs to be reloaded before being used
-more time needed to sheath a weapon (unsheating seems okay)
-no ladders for battles (or at least, i would have made it as : your own team can't destroy it's own ladders. Only the opposing team can. So if you put a ladder, it will stay till being destroyed by ennemies or till next round. Frustrating to come to the ladder and see the xbowuser on top of it destroying it, before calmly reloading/shooting again... )
-More interesting WM.

Some ideas a bit retarded though.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Thucydides on August 28, 2011, 12:54:03 pm
horses die if they horsebump too hard? More like slightly injured while trampling retards
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on August 28, 2011, 12:54:23 pm
gayest requests ever. patricia, die plox
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Jarlek on August 28, 2011, 02:38:25 pm
Same, but 2 things stand out just by skimming it...

"Horses die if they knock someone over.
Infantry die if they get knocked over by a horse."

lol
Change your avatar, that pokemon is already owned by another player!
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: [ptx] on August 28, 2011, 02:42:36 pm
Yes, as I've said, this list will probably alienate most of the community because people are against change, specially in video games, you are just another one in the massive flock of alienated sheeps.

The fact that you provide absolutely no argument or don't elaborate on anything makes not even take you seriously, a quick oneliner for a post with 1000+ characters, fucking brilliant.
You don't provide any argument for your "suggestions", so why should he?
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: TurmoilTom on August 28, 2011, 03:12:39 pm
i agree on the points most others do, the ones that make sence and that should already be in the mod. but the horse getting killed because of a bump is retarded, it's not realistic and will totally kill 1handed cav, so stay off my class! :evil:

I'm with Berethorn on this one. I've finally read the whole post, and the cav changes are the biggest and, to me, the most ridiculous.
These changes would be a severe blow to (and might even, as Berethorn put it, "kill") 1 handed cavalry.

Change your avatar, that pokemon is already owned by another player!

Sorry, Zapper. I'll do that right now.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Grey on August 28, 2011, 04:33:49 pm
Long post by a new player it seems. New as in, doesn't have over 2000 hrs of Warband, 10 years of Mount and Blade, 2 years of crpg.

All these ideas seem fine, but most are not a possibility due to engine limitations, balance issues, and TBH, fun.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Patricia on August 28, 2011, 05:11:58 pm
I'm with Berethorn on this one. I've finally read the whole post, and the cav changes are the biggest and, to me, the most ridiculous.
These changes would be a severe blow to (and might even, as Berethorn put it, "kill") 1 handed cavalry.

Sorry, Zapper. I'll do that right now.
gayest requests ever. patricia, die plox
horses die if they horsebump too hard? More like slightly injured while trampling retards
TLDR - rubbish suggestions from another whiner, move along nothing to see here
it is very clear that you're a friendly archer, a lot of the changes would really help friendly archers, especially the cav changes
Cav changes are dumb.

As are most of these in general. And no, I'm not writing a long arse post to explain why. Plenty of people can see from first glance why.
i agree on the points most others do, the ones that make sence and that should already be in the mod. but the horse getting killed because of a bump is retarded, it's not realistic and will totally kill 1handed cav, so stay off my class! :evil:

I see that none of you guys actually read the entire god damned post, as I've said before, I already developped on the subject of horses and the bumping.

Just because I'm THAT nice, I'll copy paste it just for all of you wonderful guys!


Horses take damage if they occupy the space of infantry (i.e bumping).
Horses die if they knock someone over.
Infantry die if they get knocked over by a horse.

Replace with:
Horses are reduced to a light gallop, trot, walk, or are completely stopped when bumping/knocking over infantry depending on the horse.
Fix horse charge hitbox.


With maybe a certain amount of damage to the horse depending on the speed it goes.


Long post by a new player it seems. New as in, doesn't have over 2000 hrs of Warband, 10 years of Mount and Blade, 2 years of crpg.

All these ideas seem fine, but most are not a possibility due to engine limitations, balance issues, and TBH, fun.

If you consider a new player anyone who didn't play Warband for over 2000 hours, Mount and Blade for 10 years and cRPG for 2 years then sure, I do have close to 2000 hours, I do have 1 year of cRPG accumulated and I did play mount and blade for several years.

Since there's no more bamboo spear, long spear, and pike, how do you expect infantry to survive when facing a lancer with his couched lance ?
Overall, some good ideas already suggested but not accepted/done because of the warband engine :
-horsemen receiving damage based on horse speed, when the horse dies
-xbow on the back needs to be reloaded before being used
-more time needed to sheath a weapon (unsheating seems okay)
-no ladders for battles (or at least, i would have made it as : your own team can't destroy it's own ladders. Only the opposing team can. So if you put a ladder, it will stay till being destroyed by ennemies or till next round. Frustrating to come to the ladder and see the xbowuser on top of it destroying it, before calmly reloading/shooting again... )
-More interesting WM.

Some ideas a bit retarded though.

Couched lances are much much easier to deal with than actual thrusts from a long ass lance, also, awlpikes, bills, long voulges, etc will all still be available to kill horses.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: LordBerenger on August 28, 2011, 05:33:55 pm
I support this!
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Malaclypse on August 28, 2011, 05:58:48 pm
You can still play a decent lancer cav with the thrust of a War Spear, and the removal of Long Spear/Pike/Lance length poking weapons would leave awlpikes as the natural counter to that, only a bit longer than the War Spear, and nowhere near as long as a a pike.

 I have not read Patricia's post completely through, or I haven't retained a lot of it, but I definitely agree with a lot of these proposed changes. Crossbows losing their readied bolt is a great idea, in particular, saying that as a crossbowman. The slot system you proposed, also, seems like a great idea, and is something like what I was hoping for when the slot system was implemented in the first place. The only thing I can say I would not like to see is the removal of jumping, due to the chaos/fun factor provided by it, plus the great platforming opportunities.. I would miss it a lot. I feel like M&B without jumping would lose some of it's oom-pa-pa.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Grey on August 28, 2011, 06:07:12 pm

Couched lances are much much easier to deal with than actual thrusts from a long ass lance...

ROFL, that sentence renders your entire thread invalid, lance thrust is the single easiest thing to avoid, lance only cav who are not couching can ONLY backstab, since even those of us who daggers and other "noblock" items scoff at lancers when they try to stab, cavalry is ALREADY an ambush only class unless you have a plated charger and NOONE around has ANY polearm.

As to the removal of the long polearms, cause the shaft is also a hitbox: that applies to ALL weapons with a stab, and 2h abuse this broken mechanic much more than pike and spears do. Stop complaining that noone has read your entire post before replying: Most people wont bother, as soon as they see ONE ridiculous suggestion, they loose interest.

Also, try joining a gym or something if you really believe the jumping in crpg is cartoonish. I WOULD like to see plate armoured guys jumping only a few inches up, but as to low armoured guys, if you really think people cant jump that far....
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Glyph on August 28, 2011, 06:11:02 pm
I see that none of you guys actually read the entire god damned post, as I've said before, I already developped on the subject of horses and the bumping.

Just because I'm THAT nice, I'll copy paste it just for all of you wonderful guys!


Horses take damage if they occupy the space of infantry (i.e bumping).
Horses die if they knock someone over.
Infantry die if they get knocked over by a horse.

Replace with:
Horses are reduced to a light gallop, trot, walk, or are completely stopped when bumping/knocking over infantry depending on the horse.
Fix horse charge hitbox.


With maybe a certain amount of damage to the horse depending on the speed it goes.


If you consider a new player anyone who didn't play Warband for over 2000 hours, Mount and Blade for 10 years and cRPG for 2 years then sure, I do have close to 2000 hours, I do have 1 year of cRPG accumulated and I did play mount and blade for several years.

Couched lances are much much easier to deal with than actual thrusts from a long ass lance, also, awlpikes, bills, long voulges, etc will all still be available to kill horses.
still it's obvious that your opinion as a my old friendCHER(not friendly archer FFS!) is spoiling this post as a neutral one, cuz i saw from the first few ideas that you were a my old friendcher, so not legitimet for me.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Gafferjack on August 28, 2011, 06:12:50 pm
Stop complaining that noone has read your entire post before replying: Most people wont bother, as soon as they see ONE ridiculous suggestion, they loose interest.

ADHD illiterates who refuse to read the entirety of a post, or even offer a compromise.

THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS

This community is shit.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Grey on August 28, 2011, 06:15:17 pm
ADHD illiterates who refuse to read the entirety of a post, or even offer a compromise.

THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS

This community is shit.

HOLY SNAP IM ILLETIRATE. Fuck! How did I read your post to reply....psychic I guess.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Gafferjack on August 28, 2011, 06:18:13 pm
ILLETIRATE

 :?

Thanks for proving my point, though.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Patricia on August 28, 2011, 06:24:10 pm
still it's obvious that your opinion as a friendly archer(not friendly archer FFS!) is spoiling this post as a neutral one, cuz i saw from the first few ideas that you were a friendly archer, so not legitimet for me.

I never played an archer for an extensive amount of time, all I have is a level 18 archer that I never play, there's no real fix to archers because all they need is a damage/missilespeed/whatever tweaking, since their mechanics aren't crazy broken

ROFL, that sentence renders your entire thread invalid, lance thrust is the single easiest thing to avoid, lance only cav who are not couching can ONLY backstab, since even those of us who daggers and other "noblock" items scoff at lancers when they try to stab, cavalry is ALREADY an ambush only class unless you have a plated charger and NOONE around has ANY polearm.

As to the removal of the long polearms, cause the shaft is also a hitbox: that applies to ALL weapons with a stab, and 2h abuse this broken mechanic much more than pike and spears do. Stop complaining that noone has read your entire post before replying: Most people wont bother, as soon as they see ONE ridiculous suggestion, they loose interest.

Also, try joining a gym or something if you really believe the jumping in crpg is cartoonish. I WOULD like to see plate armoured guys jumping only a few inches up, but as to low armoured guys, if you really think people cant jump that far....

Except on non-long polearms and weapons, the wooden shaft isn't several kilometers long, also the jumping makes no sense, there's nothing else to say about it, stop trying to argue about that shit, I get people in motherfucking plate jumping OVER my character's head on flat fucking terrain, as I said, it puts olympic athletes to fucking shame.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Aleskander on August 28, 2011, 07:54:08 pm
A lot of these suggestion are complete crap, pretty much all the "unsheathable" are. Throwing can't sheath? Yeah, lets make a low-damage, short range, terrible accuracy weapon suck even more... Some of these are ok, but they have been already mentioned.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Patricia on August 28, 2011, 07:57:16 pm
A lot of these suggestion are complete crap, pretty much all the "unsheathable" are. Throwing can't sheath? Yeah, lets make a low-damage, short range, terrible accuracy weapon suck even more... Some of these are ok, but they have been already mentioned.

Refer to the very first fucking sentence in big bright letters of my first post.

That was all changed in my post if you bothered to read you stupid fuckhead.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Aleskander on August 28, 2011, 08:10:22 pm
Refer to the very first fucking sentence in big bright letters of my first post.
I did, most of your suggestions are still complete crap. Some are pretty good, the knockdown only on items with +5 weight is fine. Your suggestion about throwing is ludacris, throwing is meant to be a short range ranged weapon available to melee users without much slot commitment. You want it to be a short range weapon. You would have to give it a huge buff if you want the weapons to be unsheathable.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Thucydides on August 28, 2011, 08:34:08 pm
Pat, you managed to alienate all the cav and polearms with your list. Good luck getting any of this coded, because i know damn well you can't code.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Patricia on August 28, 2011, 08:34:35 pm
I did, most of your suggestions are still complete crap. Some are pretty good, the knockdown only on items with +5 weight is fine. Your suggestion about throwing is ludacris, throwing is meant to be a short range ranged weapon available to melee users without much slot commitment. You want it to be a short range weapon. You would have to give it a huge buff if you want the weapons to be unsheathable.

Yes, and this is where the STATS REWORKS come in place, learn to read, holy shit.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Thucydides on August 28, 2011, 08:44:12 pm
Yes, and this is where the STATS REWORKS come in place, learn to read, holy shit.

your "list" has no organization, its just a fucking list of changes you want to implement without providing reasoning, until after you've been criticized.

try organizing it better so that people can skim to the part that affects their class and the reasoning for the change implementation, and maybe then people will actually read
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Patricia on August 28, 2011, 08:49:46 pm
your "list" has no organization, its just a fucking list of changes you want to implement without providing reasoning, until after you've been criticized.

try organizing it better so that people can skim to the part that affects their class and the reasoning for the change implementation, and maybe then people will actually read

No, it's a deterrent for stupid fucks, if you don't want to read the entire post then just get out and don't post, thank you very much.

You know what's really stupid? People complained in the new faces patch about the lance angle, now it's actually IN THE GAME and they're not bitching anymore. derp. And alienate all the polearms guys, yeah take away the precious stagger and remove all the exploit weapons, abububu we can't play polearms anymore. But it's just as I expected, the community shits on it, idea goes south, etc, Community is shit.

I just don't give a single fuck if they don't read my post, it's just when they don't read THEN reply with ignorant fucking posts because ADHD illiterates as Gafferjack put it so well.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Thucydides on August 28, 2011, 08:52:49 pm
No, it's a deterrent for stupid fucks, if you don't want to read the entire post then just get out and don't post, thank you very much.

You know what's really stupid? People complained in the new faces patch about the lance angle, now it's actually IN THE GAME and they're not bitching anymore. derp. And alienate all the polearms guys, yeah take away the precious stagger and remove all the exploit weapons, abububu we can't play polearms anymore. But it's just as I expected, the community shits on it, idea goes south, etc, Community is shit.

I just don't give a single fuck if they don't read my post, it's just when they don't read THEN reply with ignorant fucking posts because ADHD illiterates as Gafferjack put it so well.

You want to be taken seriously then show some professionalism in your suggestions. No one ever reads a wall of text on the internet because most of the time, its a stupid waste of time.

You expect to be taken seriously but you write like a dumbass, sounds like the first step to success.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Patricia on August 28, 2011, 08:55:17 pm
You want to be taken seriously then show some professionalism in your suggestions. No one ever reads a wall of text on the internet because most of the time, its a stupid waste of time.

You expect to be taken seriously but you write like a dumbass, sounds like the first step to success.

Showing some professionalism or not in my suggestions would still yield the same results, smart people giving smart feedbacks having read the entire thread, stupid shits (i.e you) posting stupid replies.

Now, time to ignore you and move on.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Thucydides on August 28, 2011, 09:02:00 pm
Showing some professionalism or not in my suggestions would still yield the same results, smart people giving smart feedbacks having read the entire thread, stupid shits (i.e you) posting stupid replies.

Now, time to ignore you and move on.

will the developers read it? i bet not. I would have read it if you weren't such a cunt in the community, you're still a cunt even now in your attempt to improve this "shitty, broken" game (as you call it). You should try improving your persuasive skills.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Dexxtaa on August 28, 2011, 09:07:15 pm
I read it. I like it.

Cav aren't nerfed as much as people are saying.

I personally would like to see that fixed up.

If WSE isn't implemented, it'd be cool to get rid of the pikes for now, simply because they're pretty broken, then put back in post WSE.

Polearms are indeed, the mecha class right now. Cheaper than 2h, spammable, and people are all "herp derp animashuns are giveaway." Tell that to the masses I slaughter with my Long Spear, which is pretty much a one attack direction weapon.

So far, the comments I've read are very shortsighted, and are made pretty much by people who see a nerf toward their class, and make a gigantic hoot about it, while secretly slobbering at the prospect of a different class getting nerfed.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Blondin on August 28, 2011, 09:16:17 pm
smart people giving smart feedbacks having read the entire thread

Ppl that agree with you.

stupid shits (i.e you) posting stupid replies.

Ppl who do not agree with you.

As i approve the effort and research of ideas, there is some things in this list that could be a good idea, but some are so crap that it decridibilise it all. If some of your proposals were implemented this game will become boring and lame. Most of this thing are not a feature of cRPG but a component of warband, of the game itself.


Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Kafein on August 28, 2011, 09:19:01 pm
Each time I see a (more or less) good idea in this list, it is ruined by the next one.

All in all, very bad.

And yes I read it entirely.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: [ptx] on August 28, 2011, 09:19:19 pm
I have gotten the impression from Patricias posts in the past, that he is, indeed, a dumbshit. His last 2 posts just prove that.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Patricia on August 28, 2011, 09:20:58 pm
Ppl who do not agree with you.

I'm fine with people who do not agree with me, as long as they read the ENTIRE FUCKING POST (most of which read probably less than 20% of it) and as long as they explain why so that we'll actually progress and get past this impasse, instead what I get are people saying LOLNO without telling me why, thus not actually making any fucking progress, and they're hellbent on it.

Refer to the last sentence of Dexxtaa too, I think it illustrate this thread pretty well.

I also understand the alienation part, this is understandable, but please, everyone refrain from getting sissy fits.

I'm also going to stop replying to people, and let you guys to your little sissy fits in peace.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Dahobo on August 28, 2011, 09:34:19 pm
As for the no jumping I would say if the player is above a certain weight limit they will be unable to jump instead of nobody can jump.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on August 28, 2011, 09:58:57 pm
As for the no jumping I would say if the player is above a certain weight limit they will be unable to jump instead of nobody can jump.

Why? People in plate could jump, get on horses, run etc.

Either remove it or dont
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Glyph on August 28, 2011, 09:59:52 pm
As for the no jumping I would say if the player is above a certain weight limit they will be unable to jump instead of nobody can jump.
a guy in full plate can jump, just like a normal human, a guy also did a hand-stand in full plate. a lot of people think plate weighs 140 pounds, but it acctually only weighs 40, that's still a lot, but it almost intirely rests on your shoulders, which feels light. if a guy in plate is knocked down, he can get up very quik too, don't belive those plate myths, plate armored knights weren't robots that could walk with 2 miles an hour, they could run, fight block and manouver like any other man.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Wraist on August 28, 2011, 10:24:40 pm
Since you said that your list was jumbled so that only smart people would read it, I decided to chime in.

What's the logic behind all of your suggestions [why should they be implemented], and where's your verification?
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 28, 2011, 10:25:48 pm
Patricia claims to be a god among men and the best player in all of warband. There is your logic/verification/blah.

Some things on the list are good, some are bad. Whatever...
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Grey on August 28, 2011, 10:30:06 pm
:?

Thanks for proving my point, though.

Yah, I mispelled it on pourpose, cauz I am illitrite, cant rite fingz downne proparly.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Grey on August 28, 2011, 10:32:17 pm
a guy in full plate can jump, just like a normal human, a guy also did a hand-stand in full plate. a lot of people think plate weighs 140 pounds, but it acctually only weighs 40, that's still a lot, but it almost intirely rests on your shoulders, which feels light. if a guy in plate is knocked down, he can get up very quik too, don't belive those plate myths, plate armored knights weren't robots that could walk with 2 miles an hour, they could run, fight block and manouver like any other man.

well, if we want to use REAL LIFE as a balancer: plate armoured guys can run as normal for first 5 mins, then start to slow down, their attack speed and block speed slows too, and once they are shot or stabbed in any of their armour joints they cannot move the armour around anymore....I'm not saying nerf or buff anything, just that real life is not a balancer for gameplay.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Grey on August 28, 2011, 10:36:28 pm
....jumping OVER my character's head on flat fucking terrain, as I said, it puts olympic athletes to fucking shame.

No it doesnt, anyone who is physically fit can standing jump AT LEAST 75% of their own bodies height, weighlifters for example can standing jump over 2 metres without even trying, thats NOT EVEN A RUNNING JUMP. so, you can base your game tweaks on game facts, or on real life facts, but making shit up is just silly. Since we can assume that your perceptions are warped beyond belief, I will read your future posts as what they are: the raging of someone who wishes to replace a skill based game with a simulator, but is unwilling to also take into account realities of either. You have the best day now mate.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: gazda on August 28, 2011, 11:01:04 pm
Disable penalties from rain. If impossible, disable rain.

  -Realisticly, rain does affect projectiles, so its ok to keep them. Since there is no wind system in warband, rain can kind of compensate       
   for that too. People and horses should also get the penalty(as they do now) couse if the dont it would be advantage over ranged and   
   mess up the balance. All in all, keep the penalties, tweak the values.

Remove bamboo spear, long spear, pike.

  -Im sorry but  I dont see any reason to do such thing. Spears are weapons that were used in these times, and as such they should be
   in game

Lances become couch only.

  -Great lances should be couch only, and they are couch only. Other lances, like heavy, light etc... are nothing more then a spear, and 
   spear can be thrust, longer the spear, more time it takes to thrust it, so its all about tweaking the speed rateing, which is ok curently.

Lances reworked statswise for couch only.

  -Explained in point above

Full polearm turning on horseback.

  -The polearm turning angle should indeed be wider, to the right- same as in native, to the left- more then curently, less then in native

Remove stagger.

  -I dont understanf completly, stagger of what?

Implement comprehensive slot system.

  -Imo, slot system should be changed. I thought about something like this; belt slot (1h, 1/2h weps) back slot (polearms, bows, xbows,
   2h) shield slot (shields) ammo slot (thrown, arrows, bolts). Since there would be only one slot for ammo, ammo amount should be
   incrised significantly. There are 4 slots in my vision, wich means it wouldnt be a problem to implement

Revamp upkeep to constant per tick.

  -Im not sure if I understood this one corectly.

Standardize horse HP & armor (base HP, armor, +armor only on armoured, etc).

  -see below

Rebalance horse HP & armor (less armor, more HP).

   -Those two are mostly about balance, but no need for any extreme changes, Would be nice to see armour only on armoured horses,
    and generally more HP

Horse speed & maneuverability reduced when injured.

   -Though loggically it makes sense, and many mods, esoecally singleplayer, have it, im not that sure will it be too big nerf for cavalry.
    But it might make a good thing if takes effect only bellow certain precentage of health, lets say 50 %

Remove majority of armored horses.

   -Same as spears, don see why, That is more of a general item question on time period of items. If my memory serves me corectly,
    there was a pool on removing 15. 16. century weapons, and majority voted to keep the 15. 16. century items. I think it was even from
    one of the devs

Native animations.

    -remove them or add them?

Plate either removed, or very expensive (and slot-heavy).

    -relates to the remove majority of amroured horses question, and as for expensive, they already are, they drain money really quick,
     same as armoured horses

Only one-handers with scabbards (bastard swords qualify), bows with scabbards, and crossbows are sheathable; no doubling of sheath slots.

     -I dont know what to say besides, no, balance would be harmed

Add transition to sheathe an item before being able to draw a new one.

     -now we are spliting hairs here, there are more important things to be dealt with

Add minimum duration required to sheathe weapon.

     -see the above

Crossbows lose their readied bolt when sheathed.

    -yes that would be nice, bolt could fall of, or even if, lets say arrow doesnt fall, there is chance of accidentall trigger, and we wouldnt
      want that, would we ?

Throwing weapons become up to 3ammo unsheathable.

    -Hmm, this one is confuseing

Rework throwing stats to better fit the pre-melee role.

    -I think they are balanced fairly, lots of them, and they can sting well enough

Fix throwing axes stick-in model (or remove them entirely).

     -Removeing them just for that would be idiotic

Spear-type throwing weapons become longer.

     -dont see the importance, but it seems like an esthetic problem, then actuall problem

Remove lightsaber on all animations (notably overheads).

     -I dont know what you mean by that

Color-based uniforms for each team based on team banner, including shield color.

      -same as the above

Rebalance items based on logic and not stupid shit.

      -Now heres the question, should they go for realism, or balance, and a note to you; balance doesnt always come with realism in
       games

Rework armor common distribution for 60% light, 30% medium, 7% heavy, 3% plate.

    -hmm, im not sure i understand you completly.

Replace heirlooms with blacksmithing.

    -And giving blacksmithing skill?, adding a single skill pulls a hell lot of strings and requeries hell lot of balanceing, which would
     tremendously alter the whole lvling

Weapon length is calculated -5cm from tip (pick-style weapons use center of pick tip).

    -with this i agree

Twohanders above 105 length have polethrust.

    -I agree, but maybe 110?

Increase average melee WPF, more benefits for higher WM.

    -Agi builds would benifit too much

Add disarm mechanic based on comparing WPF, weapon weight & length between opponents.

     -I doubt this is possible, but if it is, i dont see need, there is something simmilar already, weapon stun,

Blocking for extended periods of time deals flat damage to self based on WPF and duration.

    -I would rather see that blocking constantly for a long period of time gives a certain wpp penalty for a certain period of time (that
     would simulate stamina)

Holding attacks for extended periods of time deals flat damage to self based on WPF and duration.

   -I wouldnt add that, or even the thing i said in point above

Weapon blocks are cancelled once they block an attack.

   -would make a game a bit too hard

Replace crushthrough with bonus against shields.

   -I dont see how would that make sense

Shield skill is only used as a requirement for shields, in-game Shield skill is 0.

   -If by that you mean that shield skill doesnt influence the shield stats, then yes i agree with that

Remove jumping.

   -Huh?! really ? why ?

Remove horse jumping.

   -HUH? REALLY? WHY?

Remove ladders from Battle.

   - no, they dont get overused, and they are not overpowered.

Rework maps to reflect these changes.

   -dont know in which way, but i would really liek to see more flat maps

Horses are reduced to a light gallop, trot, walk, or are completely stopped when bumping/knocking over infantry depending on the horse.

   -I wouldnt do that, but bigger speed penalty when you bump someone would be ok

Fix horse charge hitbox.

   -fixes fixes fixes , they'll fix if they can, but definitly not a priority

Horsemen take % damage of health based on velocity upon horse's death.

   -Yes, seams ok

Bucklers mounted on arm instead of held in hand.

   -To much work for a little esthetic gain, but if it would make you happier, then yes

Automatically start at 9 Strength 9 Agility and begin gaining stat points at level 14.

   -I wouldnt mess with leveling, it finnaly works now after the big patch.

Make Strategus map large enough that positioning and travel is significantly important.

   -And now it isnt?

Knockdown on items with 5+ weight only.

   -that would leave to little weapons with knockdown effect, bit i would remove knockdown on 1h

Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Gafferjack on August 28, 2011, 11:16:58 pm
Yah, I mispelled it on pourpose, cauz I am illitrite, cant rite fingz downne proparly.

Proving that you were illiterate (or, rather, literate) was not my point. In fact, the first two words of the first sentence in my post were just for dramatic effect; I was more referring to the rest of my post. It's fine, though.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Overdriven on August 28, 2011, 11:36:14 pm
No it doesnt, anyone who is physically fit can standing jump AT LEAST 75% of their own bodies height, weighlifters for example can standing jump over 2 metres without even trying

I call bull shit. 2m? No way. That's taller than me and I'm 6ft2. Unless you're talking about along the ground...but he was talking upwards.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: IG_Saint on August 28, 2011, 11:45:31 pm
....but making shit up is just silly.....

I agree, making shit up is stupid. Also the world record for a standing high jump is 1.9 meters.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 28, 2011, 11:46:17 pm
I thought I was the only one allowed on these forums to make shit up?
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: TurmoilTom on August 28, 2011, 11:55:25 pm
Yes, I read the whole thing...

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Aleskander on August 29, 2011, 03:31:33 am
OP is mad as hell
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Kenji on August 29, 2011, 04:27:26 am
I agree. Although only playing 2 gens of range, it seems unfair that ranged can easily get randomly penalized and no one else.
I'm certain that the rain can easily place other classes in disadvantage, as well.

For example, Heavy Couch Lancing Cavalry (A rare class equipped with heavy armored horses and a great lance):
When its raining, we can hardly accelerate enough speed to start couch lancing, let alone being slowed down by the random uphills and downhills on certain maps.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Grey on August 29, 2011, 05:31:25 am
I agree, making shit up is stupid. Also the world record for a standing high jump is 1.9 meters.


There is no official measurement mate, the "official" in the wikipedia page you read doesnt mean shit. Since it hasnt been an olympic event for 100 years, no one measures it. I have seen a 1.85m weightlifter mark his height on the wall and then squat jump over the mark like he was breaking wind it was so easy for him. And that's from squat to leap, no runup. With a single foot takeoff like in crpg: not sure how high a man can go, but if you cannot jump your own height then you should do some squats before you go work every day. I've forgotten the name, but there is a tribe in africa who jump for fun, and there are records of them leaping over a man who is sat on the shoulders of another man: that's with a runup tho.

But to the poster who said a player in plate leapt over his head on a flat surface in crpg: not possible unless if he came straight at you and you were standing still. But remember: even at rest, crpg characters dont "stand at attention". They have AWFUL posture tbh, they will probably have many back problems in fiture: Probablt why they retire so often :D
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Paul on August 29, 2011, 09:16:17 am

Disable penalties from rain. If impossible, disable rain. No, rain is awesome. I like how it changes the battlefield. Also, penalties are hardcoded. Rain chance might be a bit high though.

Remove bamboo spear, long spear, pike. These weapons stay. We might be able to do something with WSE about toe-to-to piking but the weapons themselves have a place in cRPG.

Lances become couch only. Lances reworked statswise for couch only.Don't like this. Would make it boring. I like current lance dualism.

Full polearm turning on horseback. Lance angle will most likely be increased with WSE. We are stuck with either using full(Native) or couching(current cRPG) angle for lancing atm.

Remove stagger. Polearm stagger is a bit retarded atm with it's 50% chance. Mount&Flip-a-coin. We are having ideas for a deterministic, non-chainable polestagger with WSE using a minimum holding time& other factors. I like polestagger itself though.

Implement comprehensive slot system. Wut? I think it's pretty good now apart from the bugs it causes.

Revamp upkeep to constant per tick. Nope, this is the only part where I actually like randomness. Constant would be boring.

Standardize horse HP & armor (base HP, armor, +armor only on armoured, etc).
Rebalance horse HP & armor (less armor, more HP).  I dunno. Not having problems with how it is atm. But I'll think about it.

Horse speed & maneuverability reduced when injured. Possible but maybe very frustrating. Not sure if worth the work.

Remove majority of armored horses.Why?

Native animations. No, on the contrary. If it was up to me I'd introduce even more of Papa's animations, substituting the retarded haymaker swings of 2h and pole with his more compact, realistic attacks. But I guess with that we would drown in tears.

Plate either removed, or very expensive (and slot-heavy). See no reason other than historical accurateness.

Only one-handers with scabbards (bastard swords qualify), bows with scabbards, and crossbows are sheathable; no doubling of sheath slots. Possible.

Add transition to sheathe an item before being able to draw a new one. ?

Add minimum duration required to sheathe weapon. Possible.

Crossbows lose their readied bolt when sheathed. Hardcoded. WSE.

Throwing weapons become up to 3ammo unsheathable. No, throwers have it hard enough.

Rework throwing stats to better fit the pre-melee role. wat

Fix throwing axes stick-in model (or remove them entirely). Hardcoded. Everyone likes axes sticking out of them.

Spear-type throwing weapons become longer. Dunno, I think they are fine.

Remove lightsaber on all animations (notably overheads). Wut?

Color-based uniforms for each team based on team banner, including shield color Dunno about that. Dunno if it's possible or even needed. Maybe players would feel hindered in expressing their individuallity. On the other hand we don't care about players.

Rebalance items based on logic and not stupid shit. No comment. Placing name on to-ban-list though.

Rework armor common distribution for 60% light, 30% medium, 7% heavy, 3% plate. How? Also, percentages are to harsh. I'd go with 30/30/30/10.

Replace heirlooms with blacksmithing. Ok, looms are now called blacksmithed items. Is that what you mean?

Weapon length is calculated -5cm from tip (pick-style weapons use center of pick tip).` Don't have a problem with current weapon length.

Twohanders above 105 length have polethrust. Hmm, I like how it is now with half-swording. But actually not a bad suggeston.

Increase average melee WPF, more benefits for higher WM. Thinking about this.

Add disarm mechanic based on comparing WPF, weapon weight & length between opponents. I was thinking about disarming and other stuff for a long time. Conclusion: it would cause a lot rage and is probably not worth the effort. The only thing I'd like is disarming a pikeman when his thrust is chamber blocked, forcing him to draw his 2ndary weapon.

Blocking for extended periods of time deals flat damage to self based on WPF and duration. Don't understand.

Holding attacks for extended periods of time deals flat damage to self based on WPF and duration. Makes no sense to me. We had plans on reworking the chamber/hold weapon attack thing with letting damage decrease(even below quick swing damage) if held for too long. The heavier the weapon, the harsher the penalty. No more hammers holding overhead forever around a corner. No more pikeman in taking-a-shit position all day long. With WSE.

Weapon blocks are cancelled once they block an attack. Don't see a need for this. Actually in 2on1 I like that I can block both if they are stupid enough to do the same attack.

Replace crushthrough with bonus against shields. I like crushthrough. Maybe we can improve it with WSE though. Actually I don't see how. But no removing.

Shield skill is only used as a requirement for shields, in-game Shield skill is 0.Don't like this.

Remove jumping. NO, don't take my z-axis away. It's freedom.

Remove horse jumping.Same. Horse jumps are already rather flat.

Remove ladders from Battle. Can be considered.

Rework maps to reflect these changes. Not needed.

Horses are reduced to a light gallop, trot, walk, or are completely stopped when bumping/knocking over infantry depending on the horse.
Fix horse charge hitbox.
I'd like 3 stage riding but dunno if possible or if it would work. I like the current horse charge mechanic though.

Horsemen take % damage of health based on velocity upon horse's death. Could be done I think. Horsemen might complain that the are already punished enough with the long downtime on forced dismount which usually ends in ground rape.

Bucklers mounted on arm instead of held in hand. Dunno if possible.

Automatically start at 9 Strength 9 Agility and begin gaining stat points at level 14. Might work. However some people like the total peasant feeling in early levels.

Make Strategus map large enough that positioning and travel is significantly important. Dunno. Not my resort.

Knockdown on items with 5+ weight only.I'm thinking about reworking knockdown with WSE to a non-random, skill-based mechanic. However I don't see why a <5 weight mace should not be able to KD.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Leshma on August 29, 2011, 12:48:19 pm
Thank you for your contribution Paul. It's good to see how you look at this game.

Too bad you're gonna ruin this game completely. Oh well, I'll play until that happens. Thankfully you guys are slowly making changes so this mod might worth something for some time.

The way how they did it in native > yours and Fasader's ideas. But they are professional developers unlike you, so we shouldn't be too harsh to you guys :)
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: gazda on August 29, 2011, 12:56:37 pm
Bucklers mounted on arm instead of held in hand. Dunno if possible.

i think its possible, Mod With fire and sword has this i think, and i think they didnt use wse
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Paul on August 29, 2011, 12:58:35 pm
The way how they did it in native > yours and Fasader's ideas. But they are professional developers unlike you, so we shouldn't be too harsh to you guys :)

Thank you for your understanding.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: IG_Saint on August 29, 2011, 04:29:28 pm
Remove lightsaber on all animations (notably overheads). Wut?

I think she means the way you can twist animations into the enemies hitbox and do damage regards of how your weapon actually hit the enemy. Like how you can miss with a overhead, but at the last minute twist the animation into the enemy hitting him with the blunt side of the sword and still doing full damage.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Digglez on August 29, 2011, 04:31:49 pm
I think she means the way you can twist animations into the enemies hitbox and do damage regards of how your weapon actually hit the enemy. Like how you can miss with a overhead, but at the last minute twist the animation into the enemy hitting him with the blunt side of the sword and still doing full damage.

limiting the degrees you could move after initiating an attack based on the weapons length/weight would be pretty cool.  No more dropping mauls on peoples feet after they dodge.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Leshma on August 29, 2011, 04:54:56 pm
limiting, nerfing, long fights, realism, historical accuracy...

this mod has contracted some nasty disease...
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: LordBerenger on August 29, 2011, 05:58:07 pm
limiting, nerfing, long fights, realism, historical accuracy...

this mod has contracted some nasty disease...

Only one way to fix this...

WE NEED FINN BACK AND UPKEEP GONE!
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Kafein on August 29, 2011, 06:12:24 pm
I don't support the idea of long fights at all. There are things I like and things I don't in your list. But this really bugs me.

Why do you want fights to be longer ? They already are much longer than in Native. And longer melee fights just mean that melee is nerfed compared to ranged. Honestly it shouldn't. Short fights are more intense, less about who has the most IF and armor and more about who can block, feint and chamber.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Digglez on August 29, 2011, 06:15:59 pm
I don't support the idea of long fights at all. There are things I like and things I don't in your list. But this really bugs me.

Why do you want fights to be longer ? They already are much longer than in Native. And longer melee fights just mean that melee is nerfed compared to ranged. Honestly it shouldn't. Short fights are more intense, less about who has the most IF and armor and more about who can block, feint and chamber.

wrong. longer 1v1 fights mean numbers, teamwork & combined arms have a much bigger impact.  rambos are on notice
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Kafein on August 29, 2011, 06:28:21 pm
wrong. longer 1v1 fights mean numbers, teamwork & combined arms have a much bigger impact.  rambos are on notice

You forgot to mention that it would buff ranged even more than numbers, teamwork & combined arms.

First of all because range is the type of class that gets the better results from numbers (2 infantry vs 1 are less effective than 2 archers vs 1). And because it's also the class type that needs virtually no specific teamwork-oriented behavior to be 100% effective in groups.


And finally, the fun of melee partially comes from the fact it's hard and the skill levels vary immensely. If you take away the "rambo" effect by auto-killing anyone facing 2 or more enemies in melee, many will loose interest in the game. Being shot at by 2 or more archers already isn't fun at all. Just imagine how the game would be if it was the same when 2 infantry attack you.
Title: Re: The List.
Post by: Digglez on August 29, 2011, 06:33:06 pm
You forgot to mention that it would buff ranged even more than numbers, teamwork & combined arms.

First of all because range is the type of class that gets the better results from numbers (2 infantry vs 1 are less effective than 2 archers vs 1). And because it's also the class type that needs virtually no specific teamwork-oriented behavior to be 100% effective in groups.


And finally, the fun of melee partially comes from the fact it's hard and the skill levels vary immensely. If you take away the "rambo" effect by auto-killing anyone facing 2 or more enemies in melee, many will loose interest in the game. Being shot at by 2 or more archers already isn't fun at all. Just imagine how the game would be if it was the same when 2 infantry attack you.

Just because you dont know how to utilize teamwork in melee doesnt mean it cant be done.  I would much rather double and triple team enemies in melee with my clan that know how to work together and kill someone in 10 seconds than do a 30sec-2minute duel to kill them myself.

Also most pugs and even most clans have absolutely zero discipline fighting teams that have alot of range.  They're too ADD kill whore minded that they play right into archers killzones instead of waiting it out and making the archers play their game.

Having armor increased resist values is a good thing, specially when the majority of archers still use cut dmg.

You should be complaining more about the no talent xbows.