cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: SkyrayFox on July 11, 2011, 01:59:01 am
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To keep things organized, let's discuss changes made to cavalry in this topic.
From what we know so far:
- Heavy Lance, +7 speed rating.
- Lance rotation limited to ~40°
- Price of horses changed. More gradual pricing of horses.
- Nerf maneuver and speed for lower tier horses.
Looks like we will see a lot more 1h cavalry after lance rotation and maneuver decrease.
Also possibly a lot less Horse Archers after Arabian Horse maneuver decrease and a huge nerf of bows as well. (Happy?)
From a perspective of 1h cavalry player this looks like a lot less enemies to worry about on the battlefield.
I would like to hear some opinions of dedicated lancers and HA players and how are they feeling about this patch.
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Feeling raped, HA is the reason I've played this long.
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new max rotation angle
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198028282825/screenshot/558661528630249143?tab=public
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Looks like rage against cav because people don't know how to kill them...cav weren't OP in the slightest. But I'll hold my mouth and see how it all turns out before I comment.
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Blatant rage against HA as well. HA accuracy is now appalling. Been playing and watching other HA in EU 1. It's now this:
Move, stop, shoot, move, stop, shoot, move, stop, shoot...
You can't hope to hit any thing whilst moving. That's with 4 HA and 172 wpf. Pure HA build. It's just dumb.
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Time to get out the 2h cav.
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-Lancers will have a harder time killing an aware enemy because of more frontal approach and less manuever,
so theyll have to rely more on backstabbing. (finally)
-Lancers will be able to back stab more enemy´s while within a crowd because lance speed is back up (before the reload time of the lance made me pass quite a few infs without beeing able to kill them) (finally)
-Cav-vs-Cav will become less effective/more suicidal, resulting in more dead horses and less Cav duells because everyone will only go against another cav if its a sure kill. which will make me personally concentrate on killing more unaware infantry instead of enemy cav. this will be fun -.-
-hopefully less cav on the battlefield will help me concentrate on backstabbing infantry more.
-HA will finally have less problems of permanently getting killed by lancers. this was necessary.
-1/2 hand cav will probably increase, lancers will have it a bit harder against them
so ya, lancing has become less fun because its now a gimped backstabbing anti unaware infantry class
btw all theory, a few weeks of playing will show whats rly up
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Looks like we will see a lot more 1h cavalry after lance rotation and maneuver decrease.
Also possibly a lot less Horse Archers after Arabian Horse maneuver decrease and a huge nerf of bows as well. (Happy?)
From a perspective of 1h cavalry player this looks like a lot less enemies to worry about on the battlefield.
I would like to hear some opinions of dedicated lancers and HA players and how are they feeling about this patch.
I was a lancer in 2nd gen, and am a 1H/2H shield cav in 3rd gen before the patch.
With my plated charger, I can distract the lancers pretty well. Using the mobility and the minimal attack range lancers didn't have, I'd often scare away close quarter lancers.
Now that lancers are nerfed (1H cav as well, but much less), and since I haven't tried out fighting lancers with the new system, I have no comment on that yet.
I don't think there will be less HAs, though.
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Still downloading but looks like they removed HA from the comments.
is it true that HA skill does nothing now?
people are saying that you have to stand still as HA to shoot, thats not real horsearchery.
probobly wont be able to afford to play HA anyway with horse upkeep and arrow upkeep increased
oh ya i guess my sword got double nerf as well. (elite scimitar)
I wouldn't have minded a little nerf but all this at once may be a bit too much.
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Still downloading but looks like they removed HA from the comments.
is it true that HA skill does nothing now?
people are saying that you have to stand still as HA to shoot, thats not real horsearchery.
probobly wont be able to afford to play HA anyway with horse upkeep and arrow upkeep increased
oh ya i guess my sword got double nerf as well. (elite scimitar)
I wouldn't have minded a little nerf but all this at once may be a bit too much.
Yeah I hit 4 HA this morning with my char and the crosshairs were damn accurate at near full speed on a courser. Now, even with 4 ha, they are as wide as they were when I first got on my horse with 0 HA on this gen. HA skill seems obsolete. Or would certainly hate to see what it looks like with 0 HA :|
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- Heavy Lance, +7 speed (Lancers kept silent, but the damn dev team got onto us anyway :|)
This is actually a nerf. Slower lance speed stays active to do full damage longer, now with faster lance speed the window to do damage just got smaller. But its still too slow to use when dehorsed.
And all lances just got more expensive:
Heavy lance 55% increase on price.
Lance 25% increase on price.
Light Lance 93% increase on price.
Been a cav was damn expensive as it was and now its just got more so..
-Lance rotation limited to 40° (What? :shock:)
This better be trolling.
- Price of horses changed. More gradual pricing of horses.
Yeah, weird small increase on all horses. I mean whats the point?
- Nerf maneuver and speed for lower tier horses.
Yep and here are the the changes:
Large Warhorse: Speed +2, Maneuver +1, +10HP
War Horse: Speed +2, Maneuver +2
Arabian Warhorse: Speed -2, Maneuver -2
Courser: Speed -2, Maneuver -1
Desert Horse: Speed -2, Maneuver -2
Steppe Horse: Speed -2, Maneuver -2
Palfrey: Speed -2, Maneuver -1
Rouncey: Speed -2, Maneuver -1
Sumpter Horse: Speed -2 (can it still couch with this speed? :mrgreen:)
So, High Tier horses, that people dont even use, (Except few, way too rich HAs. Yes i am looking at you Jackie :evil:) got nothing.
Large WarHorse and War Horse got some buff, maybe now someone will start to use em? :rolleyes:
And all the horses that people actually use (aka can afford) got nerfed.
How all this relates to game balance i have no idea.
Time will tell..
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I'm not even a cavalry player but HA feels like it has been nerfed too much after seeing the new crosshair size.
New lance changes might be interesting, need to see how that works out for 2h and 1h cav.
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Hm, I dislike the attack angle increase because it seems rather odd. Not unrealistic, but just a weird way of nerfing something. Hard to explain--I'm eating cashews.
As a 1h cav I might have less to fear from lancers! Yay.
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the attack angle decrease is actually an decrease in reach. a lancer has not much more reach than a 2hander now.
-anything outside the attack angle is a threat,
-anything long enough inside the attack angle is almost certain death of the horse
-anything inside the lance is a threat.
imo lances are now, probably like irl, a major secondary weapon. a first blast, after which one should change to a hacking weapon, 1 or 2handed.
i demand a free respeck, milk and cookies! : )
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HA appear to have two options now.
Stop, wait, shoot, move.
Or.
Employ the bow as a shotgun and only shoot when you are right upon your foe.
Sure, one can hit otherwise but it is not very consistent and seems to be a waste of arrows.
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I feel bad for the person who got +2 hlance from the today morning but i feel even worse for myself who got +2 long bow for it. Nerfs ftw lets all play 2h spammers!
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some devs pls tell that "lance degree and ha accuracy are bugs and gonna be fixed"
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new max rotation angle
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198028282825/screenshot/558661528630249143?tab=public
Oh my...
:( :(
I hate the limits, but I could actually live with something like this if it was matched to horse speed. Restrict it to a tight cone when moving at full speed, incrementally increase the arc as speed decreases, so when at a standstill it is not limited. It is silly that you can't thrust left or right when stopped, especially with the lighter lances.
Polish Lancer demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAEO41WK7QU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAEO41WK7QU)
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HA scum
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And maybe we'll see some 1h cav again, hopefully. Pretty much the sum of cav changes.
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i do dig the polnish cav.
thx to them we got the bagle. and vienna never became turkish.
+1 to the slower-more radius thing
btw, the lances of the late 19th cenury were 2-3 kg and bout 3m long
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And maybe we'll see some 1h cav again, hopefully. Pretty much the sum of cav changes.
i still cant get how you didnt see all the 1h cav since march. dude.
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As far as Horse Archery goes it certanly feels different but I whont say nerfed to the ground yet. Yes the aim is ridiculasly bad when moving and yes the uppkeep of arrows that break every round is digging a steep hole in my wallet but you can still be successful.
Cav: Not as good manuever as before but thats the same for all cav. I can still avoid the other cav, infact its much easier now when lancers cant stab to the sides. This also means I can go closer to them to shoot so dehorsing is pretty much the same. All in all it felt easier to fight cav.
Inf: Bump-shot is harder but if you hold the shot untill you stopped the horse after the bump its still as effective. Bad thing to do if the bumped guy got a friend near by though, and I bet both poke and slash retaliation will be easier since you dont need to fear an arrow before the bump as much. All in all against inf you are a little weaker but so far I didnt notice a huge difference. You have to decide if you are gonna stay away and shoot or ride over them and shoot.
Archers: It felt like I did more dmg with my shots but im not sure of that. However I have a disadvantage against an archer midrange since I cant move and shoot (hit) and I cant dodge arrows like before. Long range is the same as you normaly would stand still there while firing anyway. Short range feels more or less the same too, though I got to admit I bump more and shoot less now. All in all fights against archers is harder but imho not unfair.
Now this is only from ~1h testing and throwing hasent been widly used yet so I might change my opinion. The only thing I find sad though is that you are no real Horse Archer anymore, you are an archer on horse as you stop, shoot, move and repeat. Feel sorry for all the lancers out there and I agree with Jailbait.
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A point which might be considered in this discussion is that foot archers now have a significantly harder time killing horses. Cavalry survivability has increased indirectly as a result.
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I may overreact but I feel that these changes are just way too extreme...
Horse archery - HEAVILY NERFED
You can basically no longer shoot while riding and hope to hit a target, unless you are very close.
This means that the previously perfect 15/24 build is no longer that useful. Putting points in the HA skill is a waste.
You might be better off with 24/15 or 27/12 now?
Lancing - NERFED TO SHIT WHILE TAKING ON AWARE INF.
You can basically no longer take on any aware infantry that has a 2H or spear without getting yourself or the horse killed or wounded.
That is a very big change of the gameplay...
1H cav - MODERATELY BUFFED INDERECTLY
Because of the nerfs to ha's and lancers 1H cav has been buffed inderectly.
The speed and maneuver differences between unarmoured and armoured horses that have been decreased will also benefit 1H cav, becuase armoured horses are better suited for 1H cav.
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Heavily armoured 2h cav (no shield) with crossbow feels like a very nice option after these changes.
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Strength 15
Agility 24
Polearm 110
Archery 152
Power Strike 4
Riding 8
Horse Archery 4
Power Draw 5
Weapon Master8
RAAAAGE!
And worst then anything, archers and throwers are legions.
Before the patch, I was becoming a peasant when dehorsed, but now I am a peasant even when on a horse.
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-Lancers will have a harder time killing an aware enemy because of more frontal approach and less manuever,
so theyll have to rely more on backstabbing. (finally)
-Lancers will be able to back stab more enemy´s while within a crowd because lance speed is back up (before the reload time of the lance made me pass quite a few infs without beeing able to kill them) (finally)
-Cav-vs-Cav will become less effective/more suicidal, resulting in more dead horses and less Cav duells because everyone will only go against another cav if its a sure kill. which will make me personally concentrate on killing more unaware infantry instead of enemy cav. this will be fun -.-
-hopefully less cav on the battlefield will help me concentrate on backstabbing infantry more.
-HA will finally have less problems of permanently getting killed by lancers. this was necessary.
-1/2 hand cav will probably increase, lancers will have it a bit harder against them
so ya, lancing has become less fun because its now a gimped backstabbing anti unaware infantry class
btw all theory, a few weeks of playing will show whats rly up
Yeah... it's all about backstabbing unaware infantry now.
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I may overreact but I feel that these changes are just way too extreme...
Horse archery - HEAVILY NERFED
You can basically no longer shoot while riding and hope to hit a target, unless you are very close.
This means that the previously perfect 15/24 build is no longer that useful. Putting points in the HA skill is a waste.
You might be better off with 24/15 or 27/12 now?
Lancing - NERFED TO SHIT WHILE TAKING ON AWARE INF.
You can basically no longer take on any aware infantry that has a 2H or spear without getting yourself or the horse killed or wounded.
That is a very big change of the gameplay...
1H cav - MODERATELY BUFFED INDERECTLY
Because of the nerfs to ha's and lancers 1H cav has been buffed inderectly.
The speed and maneuver differences between unarmoured and armoured horses that have been decreased will also benefit 1H cav, becuase armoured horses are better suited for 1H cav.
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Heavily armoured 2h cav (no shield) with crossbow feels like a very nice option after these changes.
+1
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24/15 or 27/12 now?
this
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hum... Desert horse is still pretty cheap for a good overall stats (except health, but well).
Being playing lance cav on eu1 for a while, and it's definitely less powerful than before (you can't stab aware polearm or 2hander users, wich is good imo) but you can stab couch stab like crazy with the heavy lance now. Feels good to chain kill unaware archers.
I even managed to couch an aware Kinngrimm with his awlpike/shield. Still don't know how me and my horse survived that feat, but lance cav is far from being "NERFED TO SHIT" as some players may think.
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hum... Desert horse is still pretty cheap for a good overall stats (except health, but well).
all lower than 4 riding skill horses were actually made cheaper, so there ya go : )
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Oh my...
:( :(
I hate the limits, but I could actually live with something like this if it was matched to horse speed. Restrict it to a tight cone when moving at full speed, incrementally increase the arc as speed decreases, so when at a standstill it is not limited. It is silly that you can't thrust left or right when stopped, especially with the lighter lances.
Polish Lancer demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAEO41WK7QU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAEO41WK7QU)
Great idea. I support it.
It would make it so that two stopped cav in a corner don't look like half-paralyzed spazzes in a stick fight.
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ahrg, its just so sad that this mod is getting softer and softer.
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Looks like rage against cav because people don't know how to kill them...cav weren't OP in the slightest. But I'll hold my mouth and see how it all turns out before I comment.
I also believe cavalry was not op. They definitely had an advantage to players fighting on the ground, but they also risked a higher upkeep. I understand this isn't much of a deterrent for people that have a bank roll that could choke a don-key, but thankfully you have to EARN your gold in this game. If you were unsure about your ability to take on cav in this mod you would down block, and get the hell out of the way. Jumping, zigging, zagging what have you. I personally like the challenge of facing off against an opponent that has a clear, but calculable advantage in battle. I believe the old system encouraged more team play. sticking with spear-men, or shielders. If you did not play your strengths, and rely on your team mates you died (or had the glory of putting such a threat out of the match). The "nerfing" of cavalry I feel is a step towards making every character equal. This is a method that could possibly lead everyone to Rambo-ing whoever has the higher ping/ peasant killing. I have never seen a disparity of HA's, or spear cav, or tin cans, or archers,(throwers excluded)or even awesome guys/girls wearing leather winning a match. Do we really need to make it more unreasonable to take advantage of what we as individual people feel are our areas of enjoyment? I will respec my cav alt if this is a conflict of interests. (It's lvl 24) I don't care. Mostly used it as pole arms, because horses are wayyy expensive.
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Cool patch. (and i haven't even started downloading it) :wink:
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Okay cav observations:
Horse archers: What the bloody crap? I play cav a lot, so I'll admit a good horse archer is a bane of my existence. But the treatment they got was just terrible and makes no sense. Horse archers rarely topped the score boards anyway, there was no problem.
Light cavalry: lots of horses got nerfed...I'm okay with that in a few situations, but I think the nerf bat was overused here. About all you can do now as light cav is backstab archers when they aren't looking (or are too busy raging over the archery changes). Cav vs cav fights are gay now. You are better off dropping your lance once you close in and using your sword. If you are being chased, there's not a good way to turn around, so why should I stop to engage the enemy cav when I can just keep backstabbing his archers? Like I said, gay (even though I'm sure you can still get some kills). The only positive is the faster lance thrusts now, which makes backstabbing archers even easier...
Heavy cavalry: seemed to get a bit of a buff on some horses, which was needed. However, now that you can't turn your lance around to your side, you can forget lancing infantry at slow speeds. You'd be better off just running them over or using a sword (which means you can't approach any skilled player who knows how to use a long pointy object). Honestly I haven't tried much heavy cav yet to make a more informed decision due to the higher upkeep costs.
It strikes me that the devs either a) don't like cav, b) don't know how to use cav, or c) are trolling us. I suppose the same can be said for many changes in this patch. This isn't a whine post, just stating the facts I see. For the life of me I don't know why chadz and co. want to make the game less fun and less balanced than it was before, at the same time.
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I like lancing more.
Cav vs Cav duels are much more exciting and praise-worthy now that stabbing sideways isn't possible.
Also much more satisfying.
Basically the only thing in this patch I dont like is the upkeep.
Im barely able to break even on gold even when i'm in super serious try hard mode.
:/
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cav was never op but we were always be able to find pick off enemy stragglers, go ninja cav unaware enemies WHICH all of these called as tactical play and giving us better results in battle.
but then guess what, some butthurt person (dev?) thought using your equipment with your mind is actually a lie - in fact our equipment (horses and lances) are so OP that we skilless sh*t headed cavalry guys can kill enemies easily without any skills at all.
i'll just say a huge wtf? :? i mean lowering speed and maneuver, attack angle, increasing price - u serious?
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Horse Archery at ANY speed other than stopped has a reticule the size of half the screen.
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I disagree with most posters, and I'll state that cav was in fact OP, but the patch including several ideas that could have adjusted cav to a more balanced level.
The 40 degree nerf alone could have done it
The global horse speed reduction was heavy-handed in many cases (courser and arabian were the only 2 that needed real adjustment.)
The HA nerf was just flat out uncalled for.
I hate HA just as much as the next guy, but making it so they can only shoot when standing still is just too much.
What I would have done
a 50-60 degree cav lancing limitation, dependent on speed.
Nerf courser and arabian.
Leave HA alone, add in anti-horse constructions instead.
Reduce lance damage
Keep damage type values in their native format
Keep repair values in their long-standing format
Wah-la, cavalry balanced.
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I don't hate HA :)
But the HA nerf really was uncalled for. I know those 5 decent EU horse archers can be a pain in the ass, but others weren't a threat.
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I like lancing more.
Cav vs Cav duels are much more exciting and praise-worthy now that stabbing sideways isn't possible.
Also much more satisfying.
Basically the only thing in this patch I dont like is the upkeep.
Im barely able to break even on gold even when i'm in super serious try hard mode.
:/
I must say lancing is better this way. My friend ballocaust just went 21-0 Lancing after I told him it was "nerfed"
We're laughing in vent hysterically. He says it is the best thing to have ever happened to cav. I quote "I was worried when you said they got nerfed, but this is great!." "Wait, people were such bundle of stickss that they stabbed 90 degrees in the first place? HAHAHAHAHAHAA"
Once again, good job devs. You actually did good on another thing with this patch. However, that repair...
oh, and I kind of like playing HA the way it was changed. It does suck for accuracy though if you move, oh dear god. I went positive every HA round though so it must not be that terrible eh?
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Once again, good job devs. You actually did good on another thing with this patch. However, that repair...
oh, and I kind of like playing HA the way it was changed. It does suck for accuracy though if you move, oh dear god. I went positive every HA round though so it must not be that terrible eh?
You went positive because even on non loomed Horny bow arrows really hurt now :) You just need to stop to aim now.
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I must say lancing is better this way. My friend ballocaust just went 21-0 Lancing after I told him it was "nerfed"
We're laughing in vent hysterically. He says it is the best thing to have ever happened to cav. I quote "I was worried when you said they got nerfed, but this is great!." "Wait, people were such bundle of stickss that they stabbed 90 degrees in the first place? HAHAHAHAHAHAA"
Once again, good job devs. You actually did good on another thing with this patch. However, that repair...
oh, and I kind of like playing HA the way it was changed. It does suck for accuracy though if you move, oh dear god. I went positive every HA round though so it must not be that terrible eh?
The only reason you go positive is because arrow damage is so high. Hell I was playing with 800 ping and firing arrows randomly and still getting a positive K/D because of the damage. Makes the upper tier bows pointless. Save the points, take a horn bow and get some PS.
HA is now a useless skill. Why even leave it on the sheet? The crosshairs are about 2 1/2 inches wide with 4 HA and full archery wpf whilst moving. Not even moving fast. That makes no sense.
It completely removes the point of horse archery. Instead you now have to stop to gain any accuracy. Otherwise it's just pure luck or you have to go in real close for the kill.
Put simply, I'd rather have the skill requirement and the need to actually aim at things than be able to 2 shot literally anything (horses, tin cans, medium armour ect ect. All go down to 2 bodkins now). However, it is nice to finally be able to 1 shot all those peasants that are popping up :P
I think that archery and HA was fine pre patch. I can understand reducing HA accuracy a bit because of the lance nerf, but this is ridiculous. Revert archery in general back to what it was. It was fine and balanced. Now we are going to see excessive archers again.
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u changed everything now WHAT should i do with ALL the heirlooms i traded...?????
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We're laughing in vent hysterically. He says it is the best thing to have ever happened to cav. I quote "I was worried when you said they got nerfed, but this is great!." "Wait, people were such bundle of stickss that they stabbed 90 degrees in the first place? HAHAHAHAHAHAA"
cool story bro
as for all the changes, well i just dont like the fact that they took out my fav part of the game, lacing vs other lancers, now its a moronic straight forward charge
and we get this because when we sometimes got stopped we coule lance on left and right at those berserker jumping inf going for a kill instead of holding downblock till near horsemen and than finishing them off
oh well
p.s. and new heavy lance model sucks so hard, it breaks the theme of my char
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Lancing ended up being like lancing what will you do!?!?
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cool story bro
as for all the changes, well i just dont like the fact that they took out my fav part of the game, lacing vs other lancers, now its a moronic straight forward charge
this
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Lancing ended up being like lancing what will you do!?!?
if we are going for reality now, bring back HA.
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realism card in crpg is played as some sort of excuse to nerf specific classes people dont like, if it were used for all classes people would drown in their tears..
horse archers can shoot how fast and accurate ? say again ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yorHswhzrU
and nobody even go near things like, jumping infantry, circling around enemy in duel ( i just cant imagine that tbh, running around a guy and him standing there confused trying to face in the direction of the other guy), strafing (when was the last time you strafed in the RL?)
anyways ill reserve my judgment till the dust settles down, but i predict people will still whine about cav being op and wanting to nerf it nevertheless like marathon, seawid, kafein, keshian etc ;p
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so if i bitch about two handers enough can they get a nerf? i find the ability to swing there sword a 180 to be bullshit, ill back it up with facts of how they killed me
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- Lance rotation limited to ~40°
- Price of horses changed. More gradual pricing of horses.
- Nerf maneuver and speed for lower tier horses.
So wait a second :!: chadz made cav players have to use skill to get the top spot on the scoreboards on each map :?: how dare he :!:
Cav is still easy mode we still get to ninja people around the scatted battlefield but it was retarded how easy it was before this patch lets see how it works out now.
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So wait a second :!: chadz made cav players have to use skill to get the top spot on the scoreboards on each map :?: how dare he :!:
i was top scoring yesterday, does that make me skilled or my horse is still op ?
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So wait a second :!: chadz made cav players have to use skill to get the top spot on the scoreboards on each map :?: how dare he :!:
no he took a bunch of skill away (less options in movement=less possible implemantaion of skill) and made us a bit more of a backstabbing class. which still needs skill in form of overview and prediction, placement etc, a bit like an archer. but the fighting skill needed
-or the amount of fighting skill that could be implemented prepatch- is gone.
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no he took a bunch of skill away (less options in movement=less possible implemantaion of skill) and made us a bit more of a backstabbing class. which still needs skill in form of overview and prediction, placement etc, a bit like an archer. but the fighting skill needed
-or the amount of fighting skill that could be implemented prepatch- is gone.
No offense torben but the time spent in learning how to drive by people with our heavy lance on a courser or arab warhorse wasn't really hard to master approach target release lance press A dodge any incoming attack lance hits target target dies rinse and repeat on to next victim that dont have a giant wooden spear...
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No offense torben but the time spent in learning how to drive by people with our heavy lance on a courser or arab warhorse wasn't really hard to master approach target release lance press A dodge any incoming attack lance hits target target dies rinse and repeat on to next victim that dont have a giant wooden spear...
ya fighting inf was only challenging against high skilled targets, and groups of them, true. but cav duells. meh. lots of charm lost there. and that was as challenging as a 2 infs fighting eachother
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i was top scoring yesterday, does that make me skilled or my horse is still op ?
I wrote a post in another thread recently about why cavalry players top the scoreboards:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,9890.msg144126.html#msg144126
This stupid uncalled nerf to lance rotation doesn't make ANY change to why lancers top the scoreboard. I could top the scoreboard even with a 10 degree lance rotation...
They cRPG team would have been way better off by posting a sticky thread in the forums about HOW TO NOT GETTING KILLED BY CAVALRY:
- Don't go alone.
- Look around you.
- Learn to jump a side.
- Learn to downblock.
- Learn to thrust.
Is that so hard to learn? No, it is kind of easy.
This nerf just makes lancing useless vs good, aware players. You cannot duel them while on horse. You will get hit because you can't outreach them. Lance to lance duels from horseback are also kind of spoiled because of this nerf. It has become more boring to play as a lancer and it requires less skill to make use of it's full potential.
It is now ONLY about backstabbing unaware infantry.
The biggest change this nerf will have to lancers is the fact that they will be kind of useless in small clan battles where players are usually skilled and aware.
So why should I keep playing as a lancer if I can just be of use vs noobs on public servers? I want to be able to play a class which makes a change in clan battles as well. But a lancer will be kind of harmless in clan battles from now on...
I might as well learn how to fight on foot already... the 2H class now OWNS lancers and any other melee infantry. You just have to dodge the arrows, which has also been easier with this patch.
Bring a crossbow and you will own everyone.
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I can live with the next nerf on my horsie, but the rotation limit simply destroys the gameplay.. I hate it and it sucks!
In my opinion breakable lances are the way to balance cav. Every time you hit something with your lance there is % chance for the lance to break and dissapear. Higher chances whiles couching. Heirlooms could decrease the effect slightly. Very simple and easily adjustable and somehow realistic..
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I must say lancing is better this way. My friend ballocaust just went 21-0 Lancing after I told him it was "nerfed"
We're laughing in vent hysterically. He says it is the best thing to have ever happened to cav. I quote "I was worried when you said they got nerfed, but this is great!." "Wait, people were such bundle of stickss that they stabbed 90 degrees in the first place? HAHAHAHAHAHAA"
Once again, good job devs. You actually did good on another thing with this patch. However, that repair...
oh, and I kind of like playing HA the way it was changed. It does suck for accuracy though if you move, oh dear god. I went positive every HA round though so it must not be that terrible eh?
Well, your words show your ignorance and arrogance. IF your friend says that this is the best that could happen, then one of two: you are a liar, or your friend is a lamer. I guess he got that score just backstabbing poor peasants and archers, since yes, the horse is much better for that now, the lance is so fast you can kill many unaware guys in a row. But that is the lamest use of cavalry. They just removed the versatility of cavalry, which sucks and its lame as your friend. Let me tell you that with this new system they just take out all the skill about horses. Now its just about circling and taking unaware ppl as targets. That doesnt require skill but some patiente, not much more. Now you will say im a whinner, since we all know the worst whinner is the one that actually whinnes about whinning. Then let me tell you that im not even a lancer but that i can do massacres with a lance. Now, it actually is easier for me to make masacres, coz the lance is so fast even with my little 50 wpf that feels like i had 150 wpf prepatch. Also the game flavours couching even more, which ive already mastered. Now its easier you would say: Massive speed improvement for my poor wpf, much less treat from enemy lancers etc etc etc. But, not as your "friend" i prefer an epic kill and then die than backstabbing 10 poor bastards in their necks. Salute.
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It is now ONLY about backstabbing unaware infantry.
I think people forget 1h cavalry even exists. I always saw it this way:
Lancers = Ninja backstabbing
1h Heavy Cavalry = Close quarter fight and infantry support
Horse Archers = Harassing lone players behind enemy lines
In my opinion it brings more variety to the battlefield now. You can't kill skilled players with a lance 1vs1? Nobody said the lance had to be the best weapon in the game that enables the user to kill everyone else. I think people got so used to the notion of lancing and its universality that they forgot its not a close quarters weapon. No, I don't think you should be able to backstab a player behind you with a 2m long lance, it doesn't make any sense. That's what 1h weapons are for. I'm not even going into the realism argument saying that lances should only be used once.
I hope after the patch we will see a lot more 1h or 1h/lance hybrid cavalry. Especially after (as you said: "Lance to lance duels from horseback are also kind of spoiled because of this nerf"). Nobody forces you to take only a lance. Remember, you have 4 slots to use, take a good sword +shield and fighting enemy horsemen will be a lot easier.
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I roll a 18/18 6PS, 6 riding, 6 shield, 6 athletics build because I like both pikeman and horse, and I feel that doing both helps be get better at killing the other.
Lance thrusting angle: I think we all saw this coming. The current angle seems a bit too small, I think it should be increased about 20% more of what it is now. The idea of it makes sense I guess, but with the current angles there isn't any room for close in 'footwork'. It almost completely relegates lancer cav to a 'boom and zoom' type, where you fly in, stab on the approach then zoom out. This is only ever effective against players who are not paying attention and as such a lancer cav is now only good for backstabbing. Using the actual lance animation is almost impossible to hit a player who has a functioning brain and two hands.
Horse cost change: Good! I really don't have any criticisms about this.
Heavy lance: Speed increase? Bad move I think. It was really nice to have to seriously think about what lance to pick, the speed on the heavy was just brutal slow but now it will be used 100% of the time.
Horse Stat changes: Same as horse cost change, good move I think it will increase variety a lot.
Horse Archery:RIP
With the cost, maneuver, and lancing changes I predict we will see an increase in 1h+shield horseman. This is good because previously it was all about lancing. However with the insane damage archers do now, the adjustments to costs and stats will force players to still rely on the fastest horses. The armored(+destier)simply die to fast to the bugged? arrow damage we have now.
All in all its like 1 step forward, 2 steps backward.
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Looks like rage against cav because people don't know how to kill them...cav weren't OP in the slightest. But I'll hold my mouth and see how it all turns out before I comment.
since when does chad or anyone of the developer team care about rage and how easy they find it to kill cav?
I wrote a post in another thread recently about why cavalry players top the scoreboards:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,9890.msg144126.html#msg144126
This stupid uncalled nerf to lance rotation doesn't make ANY change to why lancers top the scoreboard. I could top the scoreboard even with a 10 degree lance rotation...
They cRPG team would have been way better off by posting a sticky thread in the forums about HOW TO NOT GETTING KILLED BY CAVALRY:
- Don't go alone.
- Look around you.
- Learn to jump a side.
- Learn to downblock.
- Learn to thrust.
Is that so hard to learn? No, it is kind of easy.
It is now ONLY about backstabbing unaware infantry.
But lately a whole train of cavs were running straight at you even if you jump the first, second will knock you down and the 3rd kill you.
just try to spawn 30 seconds late on a open field map on food. you will know what I mean.
and the backstabbing? 90 % of the lancing cav was doing that allready pre patch
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I think people forget 1h cavalry even exists. I always saw it this way:
Lancers = Ninja backstabbing
1h Heavy Cavalry = Close quarter fight and infantry support
Horse Archers = Harassing lone players behind enemy lines
In my opinion it brings more variety to the battlefield now. You can't kill skilled players with a lance 1vs1? Nobody said the lance had to be the best weapon in the game that enables the user to kill everyone else. I think people got so used to the notion of lancing and its universality that they forgot its not a close quarters weapon. No, I don't think you should be able to backstab a player behind you with a 2m long lance, it doesn't make any sense. That's what 1h weapons are for. I'm not even going into the realism argument saying that lances should only be used once.
I hope after the patch we will see a lot more 1h or 1h/lance hybrid cavalry. Especially after (as you said: "Lance to lance duels from horseback are also kind of spoiled because of this nerf"). Nobody forces you to take only a lance. Remember, you have 4 slots to use, take a good sword +shield and fighting enemy horsemen will be a lot easier.
See. Ive been playing 1h/lance for my whole crpg time (basically since the beginning of crpg) and you are showing your ignorance about horses. First, you wont see more 1h/lancers hybrids around, coz now its much worse even for those.
You fail to see that 1h horsemen need strong horses or they are on the ground in no time. Lancers need the lance to keep enemies away so their horses can be light and have some chances to survive.
Now. you may see some ppl doing 1h horsemen but that will last few days until they figure you need like twice the skill to kill unaware players than with a lance and have no chances against any aware enemy. On top of that add that being an hybrid horseman is the most expensive class and not the most deadly.
Dunno what problem you had with horses, Im bored of killing them with a single stab with my 1h while on foot. Now its even easier.
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since when does chad or anyone of the developer team care about rage and how easy they find it to kill cav?
But lately a whole train of cavs were running straight at you even if you jump the first, second will knock you down and the 3rd kill you.
just try to spawn 30 seconds late on a open field map on food. you will know what I mean.
and the backstabbing? 90 % of the lancing cav was doing that allready pre patch
Yes, a whole train of arrows would hit at you also, and you would dodge the first one but .... or a train of two handers spamming the shit of you... or a train of 1 handers raping you....or what about being hit by flying crap so fast that it seems like you just were hit by mg fire?. do you actually play crpg?.
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You fail to see that 1h horsemen need strong horses or they are on the ground in no time. Lancers need the lance to keep enemies away so their horses can be light and have some chances to survive.
I agree.
Now. you may see some ppl doing 1h horsemen but that will last few days until they figure you need like twice the skill to kill unaware players than with a lance and have no chances against any aware enemy.
Basically you want to bring back easy mode. Shame on you. There are more ways to solve this problem.
On top of that add that being an hybrid horseman is the most expensive class and not the most deadly.
I don't see how equipment cost fits into all of this. If I'm playing a tincan infantry surely I want to have some advantage in armor over normal players. Yes ? Whether or not it's deadly is solely dependent on player's skill.
Dunno what problem you had with horses, Im bored of killing them with a single stab with my 1h while on foot. Now its even easier.
I agree, most of the horses are very easy to kill and the ones that are only suitable for close quarter fights are plated chargers and warhorses. There should me more cheaper heavy but less maneuverable horses to fill that gap. I just don't think returning to 'lance stabs' is the way to go.
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I think people forget 1h cavalry even exists. I always saw it this way:
Lancers = Ninja backstabbing
1h Heavy Cavalry = Close quarter fight and infantry support
Horse Archers = Harassing lone players behind enemy lines
In my opinion it brings more variety to the battlefield now. You can't kill skilled players with a lance 1vs1? Nobody said the lance had to be the best weapon in the game that enables the user to kill everyone else. I think people got so used to the notion of lancing and its universality that they forgot its not a close quarters weapon. No, I don't think you should be able to backstab a player behind you with a 2m long lance, it doesn't make any sense. That's what 1h weapons are for. I'm not even going into the realism argument saying that lances should only be used once.
I hope after the patch we will see a lot more 1h or 1h/lance hybrid cavalry. Especially after (as you said: "Lance to lance duels from horseback are also kind of spoiled because of this nerf"). Nobody forces you to take only a lance. Remember, you have 4 slots to use, take a good sword +shield and fighting enemy horsemen will be a lot easier.
Wait what? HA only harassing lone players?
I am not a pro player, better yet ive got 100 hours or so in mainly playing AH.
What i found out and started to love about HA is they can play many roles at once.
I never topped the score boards (only a handfull of AH was ever able to) but we did bring "pressure" to the battle field.
And sure if someone was stupid enough to wander of alone then yea ill chase that person.
But its not by far what it was to be a AH, really so if you worked together as a team like i had the pleasure of doing with the GK clan up until now.
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HA is being fixed in the hotfix...here's what Paul said:
Nature of hotfix: due to the fact that a veteran horse archer spends most of his time shooting from (moving) horseback, he is alot better at shooting while riding compared to a footarcher. However he is not as good as a dedicated footarcher at shooting while standing still - even with with similar wpf.
Another advise from experienced horse archers to beginners is that the first level of horse archery is just a stepping stone and higher levels are needed to see results.
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Wait what? HA only harassing lone players?
I am not a pro player, better yet ive got 100 hours or so in mainly playing AH.
What i found out and started to love about HA is they can play many roles at once.
I never topped the score boards (only a handfull of AH was ever able to) but we did bring "pressure" to the battle field.
And sure if someone was stupid enough to wander of alone then yea ill chase that person.
But its not by far what it was to be a AH, really so if you worked together as a team like i had the pleasure of doing with the GK clan up until now.
Never said only harassing lone players. Obviously if I said archer's primary role is to engage the enemy from a distance it doesn't mean there are archers who can't (or won't) fight infantry in close combat.
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I agree.
Basically you want to bring back easy mode. Shame on you. There are more ways to solve this problem.
I don't see how equipment cost fits into all of this. If I'm playing a tincan infantry surely I want to have some advantage in armor over normal players. Yes ? Whether or not it's deadly is solely dependent on player's skill.
I agree, most of the horses are very easy to kill and the ones that are only suitable for close quarter fights are plated chargers and warhorses. There should me more cheaper heavy but less maneuverable horses to fill that gap. I just don't think returning to 'lance stabs' is the way to go.
Easy mode? hahaha. See, i played with 50wpf in polearms for more than a year and could kill many many aware ppl and other pure "lancers". You call that easy mode?. If i wanted easy mode i just would do a 1h 24/15 and use my military pick and MW slavona. That would be really fun and i would kill x2 or x3, even having that posiblity i just prefer having a warrior that can ride a horse and use a lance to a certain point and that is good enough on ground to grant me some nice kills. For me a game called mount and blade should be played using a mount and a blade, even if i dont use the horse in months (as i did before) i always have the posiblity there with my main. Btw ill repeat you again. Btw, now is easier for my game style., just more boring and less skilled focus. You still dont see that, and i believe is coz you dont know about horses. Horse lancers, (my main treat before) are just turned into jokes that couldnt beat me if i didnt want to. Why? coz they just cant get the angles to kill an aware horsemen that has some decent control of their horses. They could trick me before and kill me . But now that is not a posiblity for them if i dont allow them to do so. On the other hand the couching is a more viable option and since i had so little wpf i used it alot, specially to kill other horsemen. Now its just a head on, where the lancer guy has no advantage on me. How you call that easy mode, are you even aware of the game's mechanics?.....
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Yes, a whole train of arrows would hit at you also, and you would dodge the first one but .... or a train of two handers spamming the shit of you... or a train of 1 handers raping you....or what about being hit by flying crap so fast that it seems like you just were hit by mg fire?. do you actually play crpg?.
wrong.
against archers I can hide behind a tree. they are mostly far away and need a long time flank me.
furthermore. if I notice archer shooting me I still have some time getting cover, even if one arrow hits me.
but if I try to cover from cav it is way more difficult. if one just bumps me, I am mostly dead as the rest will kill me before I can get up.
plus. if I am a shielder archers cant do shit. cav can.
2h I can retreat, cav I cant as they are to fast.
1h I can retreat.
I can be aware like shit and all that. if 2 or 3 cav pick you out, ur dead most of the times. if 2 or 3 2hers or 1hers pick you out you can still get away, if you see them coming early enough. but a horde on arabic warhorses?
HAVE YOU ever played crpg?
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wrong.
against archers I can hide behind a tree. they are mostly far away and need a long time flank me.
furthermore. if I notice archer shooting me I still have some time getting cover, even if one arrow hits me.
but if I try to cover from cav it is way more difficult. if one just bumps me, I am mostly dead as the rest will kill me before I can get up.
plus. if I am a shielder archers cant do shit. cav can.
2h I can retreat, cav I cant as they are to fast.
1h I can retreat.
I can be aware like shit and all that. if 2 or 3 cav pick you out, ur dead most of the times. if 2 or 3 2hers or 1hers pick you out you can still get away, if you see them coming early enough. but a horde on arabic warhorses?
HAVE YOU ever played crpg?
plus, if you are a spearmen, cav cant do shit, and archers can.
HAVE YOU ever played cRPG?
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I was saying that there were too many cavs around (trains ;-))
if you got 3 horseman coming at you, you cant do fucking shit with your spear? do I have to draw a picture?
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1- Don't go alone.
2- Look around you.
3- Learn to jump a side.
4- Learn to downblock.
5- Learn to thrust. .
1.Kinda impossible on some of the huge maps...
2.pointless since u cant hear the horse plus take into account the speed and manoeuvre on some horses
3.again speed and manoeuvre was/is still a bit overkill its not hard to guess..
4.u cant block a formula 1 race horse commin at u rdy to couch your ass
5.not valid since nothing but the long pikes/polearms has a chance of hitting the rider/horse before impact the slot system kinda ruined that option
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5.not valid since nothing but the long pikes/polearms has a chance of hitting the rider/horse before impact the slot system kinda ruined that option
Man even I can stick my espada into a horse with a thrust most of the time and I have no wpf or PS in it. It's really not that hard :lol:
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Man even I can stick my espada into a horse with a thrust most of the time and I have no wpf or PS in it. It's really not that hard :lol:
doesnt help if he kills you with the next stroke, as your thrust will not stop the horse ;-)
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wrong.
against archers I can hide behind a tree. they are mostly far away and need a long time flank me.
furthermore. if I notice archer shooting me I still have some time getting cover, even if one arrow hits me.
but if I try to cover from cav it is way more difficult. if one just bumps me, I am mostly dead as the rest will kill me before I can get up.
plus. if I am a shielder archers cant do shit. cav can.
2h I can retreat, cav I cant as they are to fast.
1h I can retreat.
I can be aware like shit and all that. if 2 or 3 cav pick you out, ur dead most of the times. if 2 or 3 2hers or 1hers pick you out you can still get away, if you see them coming early enough. but a horde on arabic warhorses?
HAVE YOU ever played crpg?
well, actually is easier to avoid horses than archer fire. You can also use a tree to hide from a horse or 3 . Actually pivoting the tree is a nice strategy vs horses. And btw, when you get hit by 1 arrow and more than 1 archer is focusing you, you rarely make it alive so ... Do you read and thing before even posting?. If you want we can use crippled horses that ride wheelchairs and then we can ride on top of that so inf can flee if needed.
Btw im a shielder also. And i kill horses like nothing with a fucking 1h sword in 1 hit with a 18 str build....That is up to destriers, bigger horses arent killeable with 1 stab from a 1h. But you rarely see those anyway. Indeed i love dueling lonely horseman when im on foot, coz in my experience the chances of killing the rider are higher than the guy killing me, even if that guy has a polearm.........and that is with 1h... just dont ask about 2h and polearms coz using those to kill horses require little skill and just some reflexes.
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doesnt help if he kills you with the next stroke, as your thrust will not stop the horse ;-)
your trust wont stop the horse, instead it will instantly kill the horse and send the rider flying to be killed while standing up...how are you guys so ignorant about horse mechanics then even keep talking without knowledge?
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1.Kinda impossible on some of the huge maps...
2.pointless since u cant hear the horse plus take into account the speed and manoeuvre on some horses
3.again speed and manoeuvre was/is still a bit overkill its not hard to guess..
4.u cant block a formula 1 race horse commin at u rdy to couch your ass
5.not valid since nothing but the long pikes/polearms has a chance of hitting the rider/horse before impact the slot system kinda ruined that option
1. You got a retarded team.
2. 90% of archers spot backstabbing cav before it's too late for them. I don't understand how a 2h wanderer wouldn't do the same.
3. It really depends on the speed and on the horse.
4. Couched lance takes time, has less reach and requires super flat terrain.
5. With the 40° angle thingy, greatswords hit the horse head and kill it before the lance hits them.
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well, actually is easier to avoid horses than archer fire. You can also use a tree to hide from a horse or 3 . Actually pivoting the tree is a nice strategy vs horses. And btw, when you get hit by 1 arrow and more than 1 archer is focusing you, you rarely make it alive so ... Do you read and thing before even posting?. If you want we can use crippled horses that ride wheelchairs and then we can ride on top of that so inf can flee if needed.
Btw im a shielder also. And i kill horses like nothing with a fucking 1h sword in 1 hit with a 18 str build....That is up to destriers, bigger horses arent killeable with 1 stab from a 1h. But you rarely see those anyway. Indeed i love dueling lonely horseman when im on foot, coz in my experience the chances of killing the rider are higher than the guy killing me, even if that guy has a polearm.........and that is with 1h... just dont ask about 2h and polearms coz using those to kill horses require little skill and just some reflexes.
First of all. I love when people start some cute insultings during discussions, gives you a clear picture of them.
again you didnt read carefully enough. I was not talking about 1 lonely rider. this is a more than fair duel, I like them aswell.
hiding behind a tree is not valid against 2 or more cavs if they have some sort of a brain.
and if your able to even hit a horse with your 1her, the horseman is just doing a bad job or he is not focussing on you, what again is not what I am talking about.
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your trust wont stop the horse, instead it will instantly kill the horse and send the rider flying to be killed while standing up...how are you guys so ignorant about horse mechanics then even keep talking without knowledge?
lol...at round end? yeah. but at round end cav is not coming in hordes and AGAIN this is not what I am talking about.
and sure with a 2h or polearm you will kill the horse but (oh man I feel so weird writing this over and over again) this leaves you still against other horsemen in the next second.
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lol...at round end? yeah. but at round end cav is not coming in hordes and AGAIN this is not what I am talking about.
and sure with a 2h or polearm you will kill the horse but (oh man I feel so weird writing this over and over again) this leaves you still against other horsemen in the next second.
If 2 of more horsemen are attacking you, you should die. The way most people should die if there are more than 2 people attacking them :?
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First of all. I love when people start some cute insultings during discussions, gives you a clear picture of them.
again you didnt read carefully enough. I was not talking about 1 lonely rider. this is a more than fair duel, I like them aswell.
hiding behind a tree is not valid against 2 or more cavs if they have some sort of a brain.
and if your able to even hit a horse with your 1her, the horseman is just doing a bad job or he is not focussing on you, what again is not what I am talking about.
Didnt insult you first. Second, what you say is aplicable to any class of the game. All classes can clusterfuck other players if the amount of guys playing it are enough.
And third :your last phrase shows how poor is your skill ingame. Ask Eu riders if they have been killed by 1hs or not.... And believe it or not, ive won fights vs more than 1 horsemen (up to 3) using a fucking tree to get them trapped and then slash the shit of them. Cleary it wont happen every time. And it wont happen if they are awesome players, as it wont happen if you fight 3 awesome "put your desired class here" in any other ingame situation. I wonder what class you are... you sound like an unaware archer using a 0 slot axe as meele weapon if you even use one ;)
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If 2 of more horsemen are attacking you, you should die. The way most people should die if there are more than 2 people attacking them :?
I agree to some point and the point is, where this becomes too regular, in the meaning that you face 2 or more cav very very often recently, as there are so many cav players, which is exactly what I wrote in my first post in this thread but is ignored entirely ;-)
I dont say horsemen per se were OP, I just said that the recent masses of cav players on some maps (at least EU) just make it less enjoyable to play.
And third :your last phrase shows how poor is your skill ingame. Ask Eu riders if they have been killed by 1hs or not.... And believe it or not, ive won fights vs more than 1 horsemen (up to 3) using a fucking tree to get them trapped and then slash the shit of them. Cleary it wont happen every time. And it wont happen if they are awesome players, as it wont happen if you fight 3 awesome "put your desired class here" in any other ingame situation. I wonder what class you are... you sound like an unaware archer using a 0 slot axe as meele weapon if you even use one ;)
thanks for pointing out my skill level.
I play
pole
dedicated xbow with langes messer
throwing/polearm
shielder/xbow
shielder/cav
and I stated before, that you can retreat from a horde of infantry men.
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I agree to some point and the point is, where this becomes too regular, in the meaning that you face 2 or more cav very very often recently, as there are so many cav players, which is exactly what I wrote in my first post in this thread but is ignored entirely ;-)
I dont say horsemen per se were OP, I just said that the recent masses of cav players on some maps (at least EU) just make it less enjoyable to play.
Infantry frequently face more than 2 infantry. Cavalry frequently faces more than 2 cavalry. So why shouldn't cav face more than 2 inf, or inf face more than 2 cav? I really don't see your problem.
Infantry still out number cav by far, it's really not that bad.
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well...we have reached an impasse.
plus I have to get back to my studies
see you on the field
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Infantry frequently face more than 2 infantry. Cavalry frequently faces more than 2 cavalry. So why shouldn't cav face more than 2 inf, or inf face more than 2 cav? I really don't see your problem.
Infantry still out number cav by far.
They should nerf 2 handers coz the other day i had 3 on me. With my shield i couldnt overrun them. And since they were so fast, the moment a guy took my back i was dead. Please, do something coz i think i must be able to kill any one even if they come in big groups, and ganking 2hs are so bad. Or the pikes, 3 guys took on me using pikes and i couldnt even breath...i felt sooo scared i shit my chain mail....come on guy.....if a fucking horse tramples you, get out of its way. If 10 horses run on you, find a place where they cant or friends to stop them...
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Can you confirm me, please, that the Heavy Lance uses a new model? :?
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i am glad with patch, but im going to miss cav on cav duels.. :_/
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Can you confirm me, please, that the Heavy Lance uses a new model? :?
With the new hotfix it's been reverted to the original model again.
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made some research to check how real lances were used, and found this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkXMkJ1rBhg
seems 180 attacks werent much of a trouble, the attacks behind seems more tricky
also some pics unfortunately in not very good quality
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hats off to the lobby that made it happen, obviously the game is more "realistic" now
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With the new hotfix it's been reverted to the original model again.
Ok thanks :wink:
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made some research to check how real lances were used, and found this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkXMkJ1rBhg
seems 180 attacks werent much of a trouble, the attacks behind seems more tricky
also some pics unfortunately in not very good quality
hats off to the lobby that made it happen, obviously the game is more "realistic" now
Problem is most people here seem to think that lances were only used in the heavy knight jousting style in epic big straight on cavalry charges :rolleyes: Considering people only use the light/heavy lance, 180 would make far more sense than 40. Hell even 90-100 would make more sense.
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This is what hollywood has made to the younger....
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Cav sure is god damn hard to play now it might be a good thing too :P But this so called nerf to archers is just horrible. Horses are getting oneshotted by every peasant ;/
i am glad with patch, but im going to miss cav on cav duels.. :_/
This is something i hate the most too it changed the role of cavs totaly.
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Cav sure is god damn hard to play now it might be a good thing too :P But this so called nerf to archers is just horrible. Horses are getting oneshotted by every peasant ;/
Tis true...my courser only takes 2 arrows now. Not even head shots. It used to take a good 4 most of the time :( Makes HA duels far more boring as they tend to be fairly instant affairs. No circling round each other pumping arrows into each other.
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If these people think that the new system of use of a lance is realistic. Why they won't make realistic a bump damage from horse (if horse skipping on full speed) to man?
Return old system of use of a lance
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If these people think that the new system of use of a lance is realistic. Why they won't make realistic a bump damage from horse (if horse skipping on full speed) to man?
Return old system of use of a lance
Or maybe speed should have something to do with how much you can rotate your lance? Or just advertise the game more so we have more peasants to kill!
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what they fail to see is that this will be even worse for those "anti horse" guys. You just screwed yourselves with this patch. Horses are less fun now. you cant kill other horses. You can just backstab ppl, and horsemen will do that even more since there is nothing more to do. Its not that cavalry wont provide you many kills and joy, its just that it will be more cheap and boring. But if you though it was bad and found cav annoying, wait until you get back stabed 10 of 10 cav attacks. While before you were back stabed about 50% of the times. these guys believe the horse nerf will make their lives easier when the reality is that you will always be backstabbed. Forget those times you could kill a horseman in a frontal engangement coz you rarely will see the face of a horse but her butt instead as she runs on your dead corpses :)
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It really does make lancer cav only good for zipping in and backstabbing. They won't take any risks now so there will be even less opportunity to kill them as a footman, it's just going to be more frustrating. The real solution is to make 1h+shield cav more attractive which they did.
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Yeah the fact cav isn't so good vs other cav does kinda mean the nerf just made it harder for inf...which is kinda amusing :lol:
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made some research to check how real lances were used, and found this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkXMkJ1rBhg
seems 180 attacks werent much of a trouble, the attacks behind seems more tricky
also some pics unfortunately in not very good quality
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hats off to the lobby that made it happen, obviously the game is more "realistic" now
The guy in your video doesn't even wield his lance like in the game. It's closer to the couched lance than the awkward one handed lances we have.
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Why did increasing the spd of the heavy lance make it hit alot less harder. I have 7 power strike and going full speed on a peasante in a T shirt on a 41 spd I can't 1 shot him. That's new for my 3X heavy lance.
Also I think the the angle of a couch being greater than the angle of a stab is retarded espically seeing how the couch does 3X damage and the stab oh the heavy lance was reduced to shit b/c it's spd rating was change. Also why change the model I f'n hate this new heavy lance look. It's stupid shit change it back. Granted I can still own as cav but I gotta get on my Cataphract to do that and about an 1 hour of that yesterday lost me 40k gold and I was rocking 3x-5x most of that hour.
Was this spd rating dmg reduction change intended? I mean it's what happened to arrows you slowed them no they hit 40-60% harder. Also I know this about Cav and lances but why is my HA rectical no so big it's like I have negavite Horse Archer skill when I have 3 of it? Maybe if you meant to do this you need to put HA down to a skill that you can lvl with 3 per agi? B/c even at the slowest trot on my hourse my reticale is about 2X bigger than when I used to go full spd on the horse and shoot.
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The guy in your video doesn't even wield his lance like in the game. It's closer to the couched lance than the awkward one handed lances we have.
Animations are never going to fully reflect the use in reality. The same way blocking is represented by a solid block, which makes no sense in real life. Doesn't mean it can't be changed to be as close as possible to a decent solution though.
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Or just advertise the game more so we have more peasants to kill!
That will be with the man at armor (in real life) if it will be bumped with a horse? I think after that he can't stand up, run and fight as before. And nerf jump for inf.
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the attack angle decrease is actually an decrease in reach. a lancer has not much more reach than a 2hander now.
-anything outside the attack angle is a threat,
-anything long enough inside the attack angle is almost certain death of the horse
-anything inside the lance is a threat.
imo lances are now, probably like irl, a major secondary weapon. a first blast, after which one should change to a hacking weapon, 1 or 2handed.
i demand a free respeck, milk and cookies! : )
Well you are right about the angle change being detremental to your hourse. You gotta ride the expensives horses now with some serious armor otherwise all that ranged that just started hitting even harder yet again, plus the return of thowers (which I must say i'm super glad to see it's viable to throw again) will mess you're shit up.
Even if you're not getting into melee range on a guy you're trying to lance down while being forced to be super close to b/c of shity angle limitations then you're hourse is getting fucked up by range (or maybe even you if ranged is aiming for the rider).
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made some research to check how real lances were used, and found this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkXMkJ1rBhg
seems 180 attacks werent much of a trouble, the attacks behind seems more tricky
Great video! That's what I was looking for but the cav demo was the only thing i could find last night.
Besides thrusts to side and (weaker) rear, it also shows slashing with the lance tip, and use of the sabre while retaining the lance!
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Great video! That's what I was looking for but the cav demo was the only thing i could find last night.
Besides thrusts to side and (weaker) rear, it also shows slashing with the lance tip, and use of the sabre while retaining the lance!
Duel wield!
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Duel wield!
I'll be conservative as a sop to the crunchies out there, dual-wielding would be too much and I'll only insist on the ability to retain the lance. And thrust over 180* arc... and slash. I'll give up an even tighter couching arc though.
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I'll be conservative as a sop to the crunchies out there, dual-wielding would be too much and I'll only insist on the ability to retain the lance. And thrust over 180* arc... and slash. I'll give up an even tighter couching arc though.
Is it even possible anyway? I didn't think it was :lol:
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The guy in your video doesn't even wield his lance like in the game. It's closer to the couched lance than the awkward one handed lances we have.
so your saying that the bad/lack of proper animation is enough argument for that nerf ? even if it proves lancing cav is able to make those attacks ?
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Thus the brave knight charged the lowly peasant who wielded a two handed sword, the knights lance was poised to strike the fatal blow, but the scum
using footwork, stepped to the right of the great knights horse, jumped up and swung, the knight too late saw the peril, HIS LANCE COULD NOT HIT THE PEASANT at such an angle, god has struck his horse dumb and unable to turn, and so the fell peasant cut the brave knight down. woe the day until jump slash is remove and brave knights everywhere can lance in peace for now hath god truly forsaken his beloved for they can not lance with out the peasant easily killing them from there saddle.
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so your saying that the bad/lack of proper animation is enough argument for that nerf ? even if it proves lancing cav is able to make those attacks ?
We all know kafein is a cav HA hater...just ignore his posts now I reckon :rolleyes:
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We all know kafein is a cav hater...just ignore his posts now I reckon :rolleyes:
yeah, probably should do that but i just cant walk by dumb ass arguments like he likes to do ;] and he probably will tell you hes a cav so that makes his argument valid
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Fairly happy so far, would have liked to see a bigger lance arc tho (80-120 ish?), a horse hp buff to go with the nerfs and maybe some more stat-orientated nerf concerning HA, but we'll see how it'll play out.
Btw, how do spears work from horseback now?
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Btw, how do spears work from horseback now?
Same as lances. They have the arc nerf to.
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Thus the brave knight charged the lowly peasant who wielded a two handed sword, the knights lance was poised to strike the fatal blow, but the scum
using footwork, stepped to the right of the great knights horse, jumped up and swung, the knight too late saw the peril, HIS LANCE COULD NOT HIT THE PEASANT at such an angle, god has struck his horse dumb and unable to turn, and so the fell peasant cut the brave knight down. woe the day until jump slash is remove and brave knights everywhere can lance in peace for now hath god truly forsaken his beloved for they can not lance with out the peasant easily killing them from there saddle.
lolrp! more more!