Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)

[Inporylem]

I feel bad for the person who got +2 hlance from the today morning but i feel even worse for myself who got +2 long bow for it. Nerfs ftw lets all play 2h spammers!

[Death_Dealer]

some devs pls tell that "lance degree and ha accuracy are bugs and gonna be fixed"

[Jailbait]

new max rotation angle
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198028282825/screenshot/558661528630249143?tab=public

Oh my...
  
I hate the limits, but I could actually live with something like this if it was matched to horse speed.  Restrict it to a tight cone when moving at full speed, incrementally increase the arc as speed decreases, so when at a standstill it is not limited.  It is silly that you can't thrust left or right when stopped, especially with the lighter lances.
Polish Lancer demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAEO41WK7QU

[Kafein]

HA scum

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And maybe we'll see some 1h cav again, hopefully. Pretty much the sum of cav changes.

[Torben]

i do dig the polnish cav.

thx to them we got the bagle.  and vienna never became turkish.

+1 to the slower-more radius thing

btw,  the lances of the late 19th cenury were 2-3 kg and bout 3m long

[Torben]

And maybe we'll see some 1h cav again, hopefully. Pretty much the sum of cav changes.

i still cant get how you didnt see all the 1h cav since march.  dude.

[Fandrall]

As far as Horse Archery goes it certanly feels different but I whont say nerfed to the ground yet. Yes the aim is ridiculasly bad when moving and yes the uppkeep of arrows that break every round is digging a steep hole in my wallet but you can still be successful.

Cav: Not as good manuever as before but thats the same for all cav. I can still avoid the other cav, infact its much easier now when lancers cant stab to the sides. This also means I can go closer to them to shoot so dehorsing is pretty much the same. All in all it felt easier to fight cav.

Inf: Bump-shot is harder but if you hold the shot untill you stopped the horse after the bump its still as effective. Bad thing to do if the bumped guy got a friend near by though, and I bet both poke and slash retaliation will be easier since you dont need to fear an arrow before the bump as much. All in all against inf you are a little weaker but so far I didnt notice a huge difference. You have to decide if you are gonna stay away and shoot or ride over them and shoot.

Archers: It felt like I did more dmg with my shots but im not sure of that. However I have a disadvantage against an archer midrange since I cant move and shoot (hit) and I cant dodge arrows like before. Long range is the same as you normaly would stand still there while firing anyway. Short range feels more or less the same too, though I got to admit I bump more and shoot less now. All in all fights against archers is harder but imho not unfair.

Now this is only from ~1h testing and throwing hasent been widly used yet so I might change my opinion. The only thing I find sad though is that you are no real Horse Archer anymore, you are an archer on horse as you stop, shoot, move and repeat. Feel sorry for all the lancers out there and I agree with Jailbait.

[Elerion]

A point which might be considered in this discussion is that foot archers now have a significantly harder time killing horses. Cavalry survivability has increased indirectly as a result.

[Riddaren]

I may overreact but I feel that these changes are just way too extreme...

Horse archery - HEAVILY NERFED
You can basically no longer shoot while riding and hope to hit a target, unless you are very close.
This means that the previously perfect 15/24 build is no longer that useful. Putting points in the HA skill is a waste.
You might be better off with 24/15 or 27/12 now?

Lancing - NERFED TO SHIT WHILE TAKING ON AWARE INF.
You can basically no longer take on any aware infantry that has a 2H or spear without getting yourself or the horse killed or wounded.
That is a very big change of the gameplay...

1H cav - MODERATELY BUFFED INDERECTLY
Because of the nerfs to ha's and lancers 1H cav has been buffed inderectly.
The speed and maneuver differences between unarmoured and armoured horses that have been decreased will also benefit 1H cav, becuase armoured horses are better suited for 1H cav.


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Heavily armoured 2h cav (no shield) with crossbow feels like a very nice option after these changes.

[Qilidj_Arslan]

Strength    15    
Agility    24    

Polearm    110    
Archery    152    

Power Strike     4    
Riding             8    
Horse Archery     4    
Power Draw     5    
Weapon Master8

RAAAAGE!

And worst then anything, archers and throwers are legions.

Before the patch, I was becoming a peasant when dehorsed, but now I am a peasant even when on a horse.

[Riddaren]

(click to show/hide)

-Lancers will have a harder time killing an aware enemy because of more frontal approach and less manuever,
 so theyll have to rely more on backstabbing. (finally)
-Lancers will be able to  back stab more enemy´s while within a crowd because lance speed is back up (before the reload time of the lance made me pass quite a few infs without beeing able to kill them) (finally)
-Cav-vs-Cav will become less effective/more suicidal,  resulting in more dead horses and less Cav duells because everyone will only  go against another cav if its a sure kill.  which will make me personally concentrate on killing more unaware infantry instead of enemy cav.  this will be fun -.-
-hopefully less cav on the battlefield will help me concentrate on backstabbing infantry  more.
-HA will finally have less problems of permanently getting killed by lancers.  this was necessary.
-1/2 hand cav will probably increase,  lancers will have it a bit harder against them

so ya,  lancing has become less fun because its now a gimped backstabbing anti unaware infantry class

btw all theory,  a few weeks of playing will show whats rly up

Yeah... it's all about backstabbing unaware infantry now.

[Baggy]

I may overreact but I feel that these changes are just way too extreme...

Horse archery - HEAVILY NERFED
You can basically no longer shoot while riding and hope to hit a target, unless you are very close.
This means that the previously perfect 15/24 build is no longer that useful. Putting points in the HA skill is a waste.
You might be better off with 24/15 or 27/12 now?

Lancing - NERFED TO SHIT WHILE TAKING ON AWARE INF.
You can basically no longer take on any aware infantry that has a 2H or spear without getting yourself or the horse killed or wounded.
That is a very big change of the gameplay...

1H cav - MODERATELY BUFFED INDERECTLY
Because of the nerfs to ha's and lancers 1H cav has been buffed inderectly.
The speed and maneuver differences between unarmoured and armoured horses that have been decreased will also benefit 1H cav, becuase armoured horses are better suited for 1H cav.


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Heavily armoured 2h cav (no shield) with crossbow feels like a very nice option after these changes.

+1

[Death_Dealer]

24/15 or 27/12 now?

this

[Bulzur]

hum... Desert horse is still pretty cheap for a good overall stats (except health, but well).
Being playing lance cav on eu1 for a while, and it's definitely less powerful than before (you can't stab aware polearm or 2hander users, wich is good imo) but you can stab couch stab like crazy with the heavy lance now. Feels good to chain kill unaware archers.
I even managed to couch an aware Kinngrimm with his awlpike/shield. Still don't know how me and my horse survived that feat, but lance cav is far from being "NERFED TO SHIT" as some players may think.

[Torben]

hum... Desert horse is still pretty cheap for a good overall stats (except health, but well).

all lower than 4 riding skill horses were actually made cheaper,  so there ya go : )