Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)

[Cyclopsided]

Lancing ended up being like lancing what will you do!?!?

[Torben]

cool story bro

as for all the changes, well i just dont like the fact that they took out my fav part of the game, lacing vs other lancers, now its a moronic straight forward charge

this

[Torben]

Lancing ended up being like lancing what will you do!?!?

if we are going for reality now,  bring back HA.

[Chagan_Arslan]

realism card in crpg is played as some sort of excuse to nerf specific classes people dont like, if it were used for all classes people would drown in their tears..

horse archers can shoot how fast and accurate ? say again ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yorHswhzrU

and nobody even go near things like, jumping infantry, circling around enemy in duel ( i just cant imagine that tbh, running around a guy and him standing there confused trying to face in the direction of the other guy), strafing (when was the last time you strafed in the RL?)

anyways ill reserve my judgment till the dust settles down, but i predict people will still whine about cav being op and wanting to nerf it nevertheless like marathon, seawid, kafein, keshian etc ;p

[tankmen]

so if i bitch about two handers enough can they get a nerf? i find the ability to swing there sword a 180 to be bullshit, ill back it up with facts of how they killed me

[Tzar]

- Lance rotation limited to ~40°
- Price of horses changed. More gradual pricing of horses.
- Nerf maneuver and speed for lower tier horses.

So wait a second  chadz made cav players have to use skill to get the top spot on the scoreboards on each map  : how dare he

Cav is still easy mode we still get to ninja people around the scatted battlefield but it was retarded how easy it was before this patch lets see how it works out now.

[Chagan_Arslan]

So wait a second  chadz made cav players have to use skill to get the top spot on the scoreboards on each map  : how dare he

i was top scoring yesterday, does that make me skilled or my horse is still op ?

[Torben]

So wait a second  chadz made cav players have to use skill to get the top spot on the scoreboards on each map  : how dare he

no he took a bunch of skill away (less options in movement=less possible implemantaion of skill)  and made us a bit more of a backstabbing class.  which still needs skill in form of overview and prediction,  placement etc,  a bit like an archer.  but the fighting skill needed
-or the amount of fighting skill that could be implemented prepatch-  is gone.

[Tzar]

no he took a bunch of skill away (less options in movement=less possible implemantaion of skill)  and made us a bit more of a backstabbing class.  which still needs skill in form of overview and prediction,  placement etc,  a bit like an archer.  but the fighting skill needed
-or the amount of fighting skill that could be implemented prepatch-  is gone.

No offense torben but the time spent in learning how to drive by people with our heavy lance on a courser or arab warhorse wasn't really hard to master approach target release lance press A dodge any incoming attack lance hits target target dies rinse and repeat on to next victim that dont have a giant wooden spear...

[Torben]

No offense torben but the time spent in learning how to drive by people with our heavy lance on a courser or arab warhorse wasn't really hard to master approach target release lance press A dodge any incoming attack lance hits target target dies rinse and repeat on to next victim that dont have a giant wooden spear...

ya fighting inf was only challenging against high skilled targets,  and groups of them,  true.  but cav duells.  meh.  lots of charm lost there.  and that was as challenging as a 2 infs fighting eachother

[Riddaren]

i was top scoring yesterday, does that make me skilled or my horse is still op ?

I wrote a post in another thread recently about why cavalry players top the scoreboards:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,9890.msg144126.html#msg144126

This stupid uncalled nerf to lance rotation doesn't make ANY change to why lancers top the scoreboard. I could top the scoreboard even with a 10 degree lance rotation...
They cRPG team would have been way better off by posting a sticky thread in the forums about HOW TO NOT GETTING KILLED BY CAVALRY:

- Don't go alone.
- Look around you.
- Learn to jump a side.
- Learn to downblock.
- Learn to thrust.

Is that so hard to learn? No, it is kind of easy.

This nerf just makes lancing useless vs good, aware players. You cannot duel them while on horse. You will get hit because you can't outreach them. Lance to lance duels from horseback are also kind of spoiled because of this nerf. It has become more boring to play as a lancer and it requires less skill to make use of it's full potential.

It is now ONLY about backstabbing unaware infantry.

The biggest change this nerf will have to lancers is the fact that they will be kind of useless in small clan battles where players are usually skilled and aware.
So why should I keep playing as a lancer if I can just be of use vs noobs on public servers? I want to be able to play a class which makes a change in clan battles as well. But a lancer will be kind of harmless in clan battles from now on...

I might as well learn how to fight on foot already... the 2H class now OWNS lancers and any other melee infantry. You just have to dodge the arrows, which has also been easier with this patch.
Bring a crossbow and you will own everyone.

[NuberT]

I can live with the next nerf on my horsie, but the rotation limit simply destroys the gameplay.. I hate it and it sucks!

In my opinion breakable lances are the way to balance cav. Every time you hit something with your lance there is % chance for the lance to break and dissapear. Higher chances whiles couching. Heirlooms could decrease the effect slightly. Very simple and easily adjustable and somehow realistic..

[Trikipum]

I must say lancing is better this way. My friend ballocaust just went 21-0 Lancing after I told him it was "nerfed"

We're laughing in vent hysterically. He says it is the best thing to have ever happened to cav. I quote "I was worried when you said they got nerfed, but this is great!." "Wait, people were such bundle of stickss that they stabbed 90 degrees in the first place? HAHAHAHAHAHAA"


Once again, good job devs. You actually did good on another thing with this patch. However, that repair...
oh, and I kind of like playing HA the way it was changed. It does suck for accuracy though if you move, oh dear god. I went positive every HA round though so it must not be that terrible eh?

Well, your words show your ignorance and arrogance. IF your friend says that this is the best that could happen, then one of two: you are a liar, or your friend is a lamer. I guess he got that score just backstabbing poor peasants and archers, since yes, the horse is much better for that now, the lance is so fast you can kill many unaware guys in a row. But that is the lamest use of cavalry. They just removed the versatility of cavalry, which sucks and its lame as your friend. Let me tell you that with this new system they just take out all the skill about horses. Now its just about circling and taking unaware ppl as targets. That doesnt require skill but some patiente, not much more. Now you will say im a whinner, since we all know the worst whinner is the one that actually whinnes about whinning. Then let me tell you that im not even a lancer but that i can do massacres with a lance. Now, it actually is easier for me to make masacres, coz the lance is so fast even with my little 50 wpf that feels like  i had 150 wpf prepatch. Also the game flavours couching even more, which ive already mastered. Now its easier you would say: Massive speed improvement for my poor wpf, much less treat from enemy lancers etc etc etc. But, not as your "friend" i prefer an epic kill and then die than backstabbing 10 poor bastards in their necks. Salute.

[SkyrayFox]

It is now ONLY about backstabbing unaware infantry.

I think people forget 1h cavalry even exists. I always saw it this way:

Lancers = Ninja backstabbing
1h Heavy Cavalry = Close quarter fight and infantry support
Horse Archers = Harassing lone players behind enemy lines

In my opinion it brings more variety to the battlefield now. You can't kill skilled players with a lance 1vs1? Nobody said the lance had to be the best weapon in the game that enables the user to kill everyone else. I think people got so used to the notion of lancing and its universality that they forgot its not a close quarters weapon. No, I don't think you should be able to backstab a player behind you with a 2m long lance, it doesn't make any sense. That's what 1h weapons are for. I'm not even going into the realism argument saying that lances should only be used once.

I hope after the patch we will see a lot more 1h or 1h/lance hybrid cavalry. Especially after (as you said: "Lance to lance duels from horseback are also kind of spoiled because of this nerf"). Nobody forces you to take only a lance. Remember, you have 4 slots to use, take a good sword +shield and fighting enemy horsemen will be a lot easier.

[Beans]

I roll a 18/18 6PS, 6 riding, 6 shield, 6 athletics build because I like both pikeman and horse, and I feel that doing both helps be get better at killing the other.

Lance thrusting angle: I think we all saw this coming. The current angle seems a bit too small, I think it should be increased about 20% more of what it is now. The idea of it makes sense I guess, but with the current angles there isn't any room for close in 'footwork'. It almost completely relegates lancer cav to a 'boom and zoom' type, where you fly in, stab on the approach then zoom out. This is only ever effective against players who are not paying attention and as such a lancer cav is now only good for backstabbing. Using the actual lance animation is almost impossible to hit a player who has a functioning brain and two hands.

Horse cost change: Good! I really don't have any criticisms about this.

Heavy lance: Speed increase? Bad move I think. It was really nice to have to seriously think about what lance to pick, the speed on the heavy was just brutal slow but now it will be used 100% of the time.

Horse Stat changes: Same as horse cost change, good move I think it will increase variety a lot.

Horse Archery:RIP

With the cost, maneuver, and lancing changes I predict we will see an increase in 1h+shield horseman. This is good because previously it was all about lancing. However with the insane damage archers do now, the adjustments to costs and stats will force players to still rely on the fastest horses. The armored(+destier)simply die to fast to the bugged? arrow damage we have now.

All in all its like 1 step forward, 2 steps backward.