Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)

[SkyrayFox]

To keep things organized, let's discuss changes made to cavalry in this topic.

From what we know so far:

- Heavy Lance, +7 speed rating.
- Lance rotation limited to ~40°
- Price of horses changed. More gradual pricing of horses.
- Nerf maneuver and speed for lower tier horses.


Looks like we will see a lot more 1h cavalry after lance rotation and maneuver decrease.
Also possibly a lot less Horse Archers after Arabian Horse maneuver decrease and a huge nerf of bows as well. (Happy?)
From a perspective of 1h cavalry player this looks like a lot less enemies to worry about on the battlefield.
I would like to hear some opinions of dedicated lancers and HA players and how are they feeling about this patch.

[Stylin_ATS]

Feeling raped, HA is the reason I've played this long.

[polkafranzi]

new max rotation angle

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198028282825/screenshot/558661528630249143?tab=public

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Looks like rage against cav because people don't know how to kill them...cav weren't OP in the slightest.  But I'll hold my mouth and see how it all turns out before I comment.

[Overdriven]

Blatant rage against HA as well. HA accuracy is now appalling. Been playing and watching other HA in EU 1. It's now this:

Move, stop, shoot, move, stop, shoot, move, stop, shoot...

You can't hope to hit any thing whilst moving. That's with 4 HA and 172 wpf. Pure HA build. It's just dumb.

[Thovex]

Time to get out the 2h cav.

[Torben]

-Lancers will have a harder time killing an aware enemy because of more frontal approach and less manuever,
 so theyll have to rely more on backstabbing. (finally)
-Lancers will be able to  back stab more enemy´s while within a crowd because lance speed is back up (before the reload time of the lance made me pass quite a few infs without beeing able to kill them) (finally)
-Cav-vs-Cav will become less effective/more suicidal,  resulting in more dead horses and less Cav duells because everyone will only  go against another cav if its a sure kill.  which will make me personally concentrate on killing more unaware infantry instead of enemy cav.  this will be fun -.-
-hopefully less cav on the battlefield will help me concentrate on backstabbing infantry  more.
-HA will finally have less problems of permanently getting killed by lancers.  this was necessary.
-1/2 hand cav will probably increase,  lancers will have it a bit harder against them

so ya,  lancing has become less fun because its now a gimped backstabbing anti unaware infantry class

btw all theory,  a few weeks of playing will show whats rly up

[Kenji]

Looks like we will see a lot more 1h cavalry after lance rotation and maneuver decrease.
Also possibly a lot less Horse Archers after Arabian Horse maneuver decrease and a huge nerf of bows as well. (Happy?)
From a perspective of 1h cavalry player this looks like a lot less enemies to worry about on the battlefield.
I would like to hear some opinions of dedicated lancers and HA players and how are they feeling about this patch.

I was a lancer in 2nd gen, and am a 1H/2H shield cav in 3rd gen before the patch.

With my plated charger, I can distract the lancers pretty well. Using the mobility and the minimal attack range lancers didn't have, I'd often scare away close quarter lancers.

Now that lancers are nerfed (1H cav as well, but much less), and since I haven't tried out fighting lancers with the new system, I have no comment on that yet.

I don't think there will be less HAs, though.

[Murchad]

Still downloading but looks like they removed HA from the comments.
is it true that HA skill does nothing now?
people are saying that you have to stand still as HA to shoot, thats not real horsearchery.
probobly wont be able to afford to play HA anyway with horse upkeep and arrow upkeep increased
oh ya i guess my sword got double nerf as well. (elite scimitar)
I wouldn't have minded a little nerf but all this at once may be a bit too much.

[Overdriven]

Still downloading but looks like they removed HA from the comments.
is it true that HA skill does nothing now?
people are saying that you have to stand still as HA to shoot, thats not real horsearchery.
probobly wont be able to afford to play HA anyway with horse upkeep and arrow upkeep increased
oh ya i guess my sword got double nerf as well. (elite scimitar)
I wouldn't have minded a little nerf but all this at once may be a bit too much.

Yeah I hit 4 HA this morning with my char and the crosshairs were damn accurate at near full speed on a courser. Now, even with 4 ha, they are as wide as they were when I first got on my horse with 0 HA on this gen. HA skill seems obsolete. Or would certainly hate to see what it looks like with 0 HA

[Assarhaddon]

- Heavy Lance, +7 speed (Lancers kept silent, but the damn dev team got onto us anyway )
This is actually a nerf. Slower lance speed stays active to do full damage longer, now with faster lance speed the window to do damage just got smaller. But its still too slow to use when dehorsed.

And all lances just got more expensive:

Heavy lance 55% increase on price.
Lance 25% increase on price.
Light Lance 93% increase on price.
Been a cav was damn expensive as it was and now its just got more so..


-Lance rotation limited to 40° (What?  )
This better be trolling.


- Price of horses changed. More gradual pricing of horses.
Yeah, weird small increase on all horses. I mean whats the point?


- Nerf maneuver and speed for lower tier horses.
Yep and here are the the changes:

Large Warhorse: Speed +2, Maneuver +1, +10HP
War Horse: Speed +2, Maneuver +2
Arabian Warhorse: Speed -2, Maneuver -2
Courser: Speed -2, Maneuver -1
Desert Horse: Speed -2, Maneuver -2
Steppe Horse: Speed -2, Maneuver -2
Palfrey: Speed -2, Maneuver -1
Rouncey: Speed -2, Maneuver -1
Sumpter Horse: Speed -2 (can it still couch with this speed? )

So, High Tier horses, that people dont even use, (Except few, way too rich HAs. Yes i am looking at you Jackie ) got nothing.
Large WarHorse and War Horse got some buff, maybe now someone will start to use em? 
And all the horses that people actually use (aka can afford) got nerfed.


How all this relates to game balance i have no idea.
Time will tell..

[Belmont]

I'm not even a cavalry player but HA feels like it has been nerfed too much after seeing the new crosshair size.

New lance changes might be interesting, need to see how that works out for 2h and 1h cav.

[KaMiKaZe_JoE]

Hm, I dislike the attack angle increase because it seems rather odd. Not unrealistic, but just a weird way of nerfing something. Hard to explain--I'm eating cashews.

As a 1h cav I might have less to fear from lancers! Yay.

[Torben]

the attack angle decrease is actually an decrease in reach.  a lancer has not much more reach than a 2hander now.
-anything outside the attack angle is a threat,
-anything long enough inside the attack angle is almost certain death of the horse
-anything inside the lance is a threat.

imo lances are now,  probably like irl,  a major secondary weapon.  a first blast,  after which one should change to a hacking weapon,  1 or 2handed.

i demand a free respeck,  milk and cookies! : )

[Remy]

HA appear to have two options now.

Stop, wait, shoot, move.

Or.

Employ the bow as a shotgun and only shoot when you are right upon your foe.

Sure, one can hit otherwise but it is not very consistent and seems to be a waste of arrows.