Author Topic: Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)  (Read 11996 times)

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Offline Seawied

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Re: Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2011, 05:51:15 am »
0
Oh my...
 :(  :(
I hate the limits, but I could actually live with something like this if it was matched to horse speed.  Restrict it to a tight cone when moving at full speed, incrementally increase the arc as speed decreases, so when at a standstill it is not limited.  It is silly that you can't thrust left or right when stopped, especially with the lighter lances.
Polish Lancer demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAEO41WK7QU

Great idea. I support it.


It would make it so that two stopped cav in a corner don't look like half-paralyzed spazzes in a stick fight.
So with PT >10 stones become simple too effective
:lol:

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Re: Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2011, 05:56:41 am »
+1
ahrg,  its just so sad that this mod is getting softer and softer. 
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Offline Wallace_Ritchie

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Re: Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2011, 07:36:50 am »
+1
Looks like rage against cav because people don't know how to kill them...cav weren't OP in the slightest.  But I'll hold my mouth and see how it all turns out before I comment.
I also believe cavalry was not op. They definitely had an advantage to players fighting on the ground, but they also risked a higher upkeep. I understand this isn't much of a deterrent for people that have a bank roll that could choke a don-key, but thankfully you have to EARN your gold in this game. If you were unsure about your ability to take on cav in this mod you would down block, and get the hell out of the way. Jumping, zigging, zagging what have you. I personally like the challenge of facing off against an opponent that has a clear, but calculable advantage in battle. I believe the old system encouraged more team play. sticking with spear-men, or shielders. If you did not play your strengths, and rely on your team mates you died (or had the glory of putting such a threat out of the match). The "nerfing" of cavalry I feel is a step towards making every character equal. This is a method that could possibly lead everyone to Rambo-ing whoever has the higher ping/ peasant killing. I have never seen a disparity of HA's, or spear cav, or tin cans, or archers,(throwers excluded)or even awesome guys/girls wearing leather winning a match. Do we really need to make it more unreasonable to take advantage of what we as individual people feel are our areas of enjoyment? I will respec my cav alt if this is a conflict of interests. (It's lvl 24) I don't care. Mostly used it as pole arms, because horses are wayyy expensive.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 07:54:27 am by Wallace_Ritchie »

Offline Gnjus

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Re: Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2011, 07:56:10 am »
0
Cool patch. (and i haven't even started downloading it)  :wink:
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Offline CtrlAltDe1337

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Re: Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2011, 08:15:03 am »
+2
Okay cav observations:


Horse archers:
What the bloody crap?  I play cav a lot, so I'll admit a good horse archer is a bane of my existence.  But the treatment they got was just terrible and makes no sense.  Horse archers rarely topped the score boards anyway, there was no problem.

Light cavalry: lots of horses got nerfed...I'm okay with that in a few situations, but I think the nerf bat was overused here.  About all you can do now as light cav is backstab archers when they aren't looking (or are too busy raging over the archery changes).  Cav vs cav fights are gay now.  You are better off dropping your lance once you close in and using your sword.  If you are being chased, there's not a good way to turn around, so why should I stop to engage the enemy cav when I can just keep backstabbing his archers?  Like I said, gay (even though I'm sure you can still get some kills).  The only positive is the faster lance thrusts now, which makes backstabbing archers even easier...

Heavy cavalry: seemed to get a bit of a buff on some horses, which was needed.  However, now that you can't turn your lance around to your side, you can forget lancing infantry at slow speeds.  You'd be better off just running them over or using a sword (which means you can't approach any skilled player who knows how to use a long pointy object).  Honestly I haven't tried much heavy cav yet to make a more informed decision due to the higher upkeep costs.

It strikes me that the devs either a) don't like cav, b) don't know how to use cav, or c) are trolling us.  I suppose the same can be said for many changes in this patch.  This isn't a whine post, just stating the facts I see.  For the life of me I don't know why chadz and co. want to make the game less fun and less balanced than it was before, at the same time.
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Offline Huey Newton

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Re: Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2011, 08:23:54 am »
+2
I like lancing more.
Cav vs Cav duels are much more exciting and praise-worthy now that stabbing sideways isn't possible.
Also much more satisfying.

Basically the only thing in this patch I dont like is the upkeep.
Im barely able to break even on gold even when i'm in super serious try hard mode.
:/

Offline Miralay

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Re: Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2011, 08:26:10 am »
0
cav was never op but we were always be able to find pick  off enemy stragglers, go ninja cav unaware enemies WHICH all of these called as tactical play and giving us better results in battle.

but then guess what, some butthurt person (dev?) thought using your equipment with your mind is actually a lie - in fact our equipment (horses and lances) are so OP that we skilless sh*t headed cavalry guys can kill enemies easily without any skills at all.

i'll just say a huge wtf?  :? i mean lowering speed and maneuver, attack angle, increasing price - u serious?


Offline Vibe

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Re: Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2011, 08:38:57 am »
0
Horse Archery at ANY speed other than stopped has a reticule the size of half the screen.

Offline Seawied

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Re: Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2011, 08:45:20 am »
+3
I disagree with most posters, and I'll state that cav was in fact OP, but the patch including several ideas that could have adjusted cav to a more balanced level.

The 40 degree nerf alone could have done it
The global horse speed reduction was heavy-handed in many cases (courser and arabian were the only 2 that needed real adjustment.)
The HA nerf was just flat out uncalled for.


I hate HA just as much as the next guy, but making it so they can only shoot when standing still is just too much.

What I would have done

a 50-60 degree cav lancing limitation, dependent on speed.
Nerf courser and arabian.
Leave HA alone, add in anti-horse constructions instead.
Reduce lance damage
Keep damage type values in their native format
Keep repair values in their long-standing format

Wah-la, cavalry balanced.
So with PT >10 stones become simple too effective
:lol:

Offline Vibe

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Re: Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2011, 08:48:30 am »
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I don't hate HA :)

But the HA nerf really was uncalled for. I know those 5 decent EU horse archers can be a pain in the ass, but others weren't a threat.

Offline Cyclopsided

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Re: Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2011, 09:01:28 am »
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I like lancing more.
Cav vs Cav duels are much more exciting and praise-worthy now that stabbing sideways isn't possible.
Also much more satisfying.

Basically the only thing in this patch I dont like is the upkeep.
Im barely able to break even on gold even when i'm in super serious try hard mode.
:/
I must say lancing is better this way. My friend ballocaust just went 21-0 Lancing after I told him it was "nerfed"

We're laughing in vent hysterically. He says it is the best thing to have ever happened to cav. I quote "I was worried when you said they got nerfed, but this is great!." "Wait, people were such bundle of stickss that they stabbed 90 degrees in the first place? HAHAHAHAHAHAA"


Once again, good job devs. You actually did good on another thing with this patch. However, that repair...
oh, and I kind of like playing HA the way it was changed. It does suck for accuracy though if you move, oh dear god. I went positive every HA round though so it must not be that terrible eh?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 09:03:02 am by Marathon »
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Offline Vibe

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Re: Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2011, 09:05:09 am »
0
Once again, good job devs. You actually did good on another thing with this patch. However, that repair...
oh, and I kind of like playing HA the way it was changed. It does suck for accuracy though if you move, oh dear god. I went positive every HA round though so it must not be that terrible eh?

You went positive because even on non loomed Horny bow arrows really hurt now :) You just need to stop to aim now.

Offline Overdriven

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Re: Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2011, 09:05:45 am »
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I must say lancing is better this way. My friend ballocaust just went 21-0 Lancing after I told him it was "nerfed"

We're laughing in vent hysterically. He says it is the best thing to have ever happened to cav. I quote "I was worried when you said they got nerfed, but this is great!." "Wait, people were such bundle of stickss that they stabbed 90 degrees in the first place? HAHAHAHAHAHAA"


Once again, good job devs. You actually did good on another thing with this patch. However, that repair...
oh, and I kind of like playing HA the way it was changed. It does suck for accuracy though if you move, oh dear god. I went positive every HA round though so it must not be that terrible eh?

The only reason you go positive is because arrow damage is so high. Hell I was playing with 800 ping and firing arrows randomly and still getting a positive K/D because of the damage. Makes the upper tier bows pointless. Save the points, take a horn bow and get some PS.

HA is now a useless skill. Why even leave it on the sheet? The crosshairs are about 2 1/2 inches wide with 4 HA and full archery wpf whilst moving. Not even moving fast. That makes no sense.

It completely removes the point of horse archery. Instead you now have to stop to gain any accuracy. Otherwise it's just pure luck or you have to go in real close for the kill.

Put simply, I'd rather have the skill requirement and the need to actually aim at things than be able to 2 shot literally anything (horses, tin cans, medium armour ect ect. All go down to 2 bodkins now). However, it is nice to finally be able to 1 shot all those peasants that are popping up :P

I think that archery and HA was fine pre patch. I can understand reducing HA accuracy a bit because of the lance nerf, but this is ridiculous. Revert archery in general back to what it was. It was fine and balanced. Now we are going to see excessive archers again.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 09:12:31 am by Overdriven »

Offline Ming

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Re: Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2011, 09:12:29 am »
0
u changed everything now WHAT should i do with ALL the heirlooms i traded...?????

Offline Chagan_Arslan

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Re: Cavalry changes discussion (Version 0.230)
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2011, 10:57:49 am »
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We're laughing in vent hysterically. He says it is the best thing to have ever happened to cav. I quote "I was worried when you said they got nerfed, but this is great!." "Wait, people were such bundle of stickss that they stabbed 90 degrees in the first place? HAHAHAHAHAHAA"

cool story bro

as for all the changes, well i just dont like the fact that they took out my fav part of the game, lacing vs other lancers, now its a moronic straight forward charge
and we get this because when we sometimes got stopped we coule lance on left and right at those berserker jumping inf going for a kill instead of holding downblock till near horsemen and than finishing them off

oh well

p.s. and new heavy lance model sucks so hard, it breaks the theme of my char