Turning speed nerf effects 1h more than 2h/pole.

[Leshma]

That isn't a bad idea, actually.

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This is who I chose:
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He hasn't played shielder in a while, but he obviously knows the class and he likes my idea. Cool beans :3

Saint?

[Jarlek]

The dancing is what makes it fun. outdance your foe's!!!!!

May I have the next dance, miss?

[Vingnir the Wanderer]

As your testing please note the following:

KD and dueling, has very little to do with the shielders vast responsibilities on the battlefield, and thus, you need to test against its other situationals:

Can he/she still be affective leading the charge into a group of maulers etc at the top of a ladder?

Can he still provide archer support and anti-cav with a weakened shield that he isnt allowed to hold up anymore without penalty? etc...


I dunno, the only way you can accomplish what you were saying  is a nerf, not a buff for not holding your shield up. Logically you'll just have the same people gratuitously dropping their shields a little more often, and them lasting even longer.

Thats why I said all this, because you said your intent was to break up the turtling, this wont do it-  you will just buff the turtler slightly, (because they'll drop their shield every now and then, thus making their shield last even longer) and the savy shielder even more.

So i see a nerf coming, not a buff, and I really dont think thats going to help anything.  Shielders have it tough in almost every other aspect but shielding, and they arent exactly owning the boards the way it is now, so...

[Turboflex]

Wow cmp you really hate shield/1h wtf?? Acting arrogantly and constantly insulting them as "turtlers", and attempting to balance it out while you never even played the class. That is kind of discouraging to see such contempt from someone in charge of balance.

Shielder's best (and one of few) advantage in melee is being able to take on multiple opponents really well cuz your shield gives you a chance to to move yourself into good position to attack, and to time in quick swings between multiple opponent hits. While a 2h will get cut down really fast against multiple opponents as long as they are smart enough to attack in 2 different directions.

Beating multiple opponents is the highest satisfaction of shielding, and quite challenging, the equivalent of what intense dueling is for non-shielders. Sounds your proposed change will just ruin these fights because now when you are taking on the challenge of fighting 2-4 guys (which I love to do) they will basically get an auto-win unless I start the fight in great position, cuz I will no longer be able to hold off the blows for even a few seconds since they will now be stunning me as they rain in.

If you really wanna nerf "turtlers" just go nerf super heavy shields that take forever to break and cap shield skill at 5 or 6. I use a +3 heavy round shield and 4 shield skill, and it only takes 5-10 hits to break with a normal weapon and like 2-4 with a shield breaker, I don't think that is unreasonable turtling.

[cmp]

Wow cmp you really hate shield/1h wtf?? Acting arrogantly and constantly insulting them as "turtlers", and attempting to balance it out while you never even played the class.

Is this the Vicious armada or what?

[Tot.]

...

Where exactly was said by anyone that the proposed mechanics means shielders cant block 1+ attacks at once? All I saw in here is that shielders would be given additional mechanics apart from holding RMB which would reward them with lower damage to the shield.

me playng this char since 2 years and half 5-10h day ?

Jesus...


edit Actually, so if the average is 7.5h a day that gives 6750 hours which equals about 281 days of constant steelpicking.

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And you still get kickslashed like a baby.   

[Cyclopsided]

cmp vs misunderstood blind misdirected rage: the Thread.

[Leshma]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but cmp won't nerf shielders. You're still be able to do the same as before, it's just that those shielders who are more active will have better chance against single oponent of other classes than those who like to turtle until their teammates come to rescue them. Also, in shielder vs shielder fights the one who attack more often will faster kill his defensive fellow shielder (compared to how it's now).

It's just making the less cheesy playstyle more rewarding. He did similar with other classes but because he couldn't buff them, he decided to nerf cheesy dancer playstyle.

Or I misunderstood what cmp said?

[cmp]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but cmp won't nerf shielders. You're still be able to do the same as before, it's just that those shielders who are more active will have better chance against single oponent of other classes than those who like to turtle until their teammates come to rescue them. Also, in shielder vs shielder fights the one who attack more often will faster kill his defensive fellow shielder (compared to how it's now).

It's just making the less cheesy playstyle more rewarding. He did similar with other classes but because he couldn't buff them, he decided to nerf cheesy dancer playstyle.

Or I misunderstood what cmp said?

Well, I said I would consider making turtling less effective than it's now. I didn't really elaborate on that because of the Vicious Armada showing up.

[Leshma]

Turtling is only effective if you want to buy some time for your team. Or if you're impatient player facing them like I often am against turtles. Yes there turtles who are good against groups like kinngrimm but I think it's unfair punishing every single turtle because of kinngrimm who has pretty damn obvious advantages like cheesy high level build and super low ping.

Better just buff aggressive playstyle, giving incentive to shielders to play differently instead of holding right mouse button until US cavalry comes and rescue them.

[San]

I'm just intrigued by what you mean here:

Well, I would increase damage taken/stun when blocking and decrease damage taken/stun when parrying. To encourage shielders to learn parrying and to discourage turtle fights.

I hope I may be interpreting this incorrectly, but it sounds like in situations where you can't really parry opponents (2+ v 1), your shield would take more damage than it does now. All I really ask is that shield has the same effective performance against multiple foes as it does now if the change is ever implemented.

The parrying sounds interesting, but I am puzzled how it would be any better than fighting without shield at all if you can block somewhat decently. That's why I said that the parry would have to be good if it points to shield being better at 1v1 and worse in group fights. If shield is going to be fine in group fights, then I am all for it. Adding any additional stun to turtling would make the right swing nigh useless. I am also wondering how much one will be punished from failing to parry, since the heavy shields + high shield skill can easily take ~30 hits from a non shield breaker.

EDIT: What I mean to say is that turtles are the ones who have such heavy shields and high shield skill. Regular shielders with only 4-5 shield and non-huscarl might have their shield break much more when fighting more than 1 person, when it already doesn't take that many hits if you don't have much shield.

This is coming from an aggressive shielder. I learned a long time ago that turtling isn't even that good and only a few people can do it well. I just hope you can elaborate to clear any worries.

[Vicious666]

Well, I said I would consider making turtling less effective than it's now. I didn't really elaborate on that because of the Vicious Armada showing up.

get over man,  i dont know who that guys is , maybe he just agree on what i writed  , incredible for you i know, is  strange  that exist ppl that not like your ideas.   


ps: only mediocre shielders wait for the sound of shield block for attack, and yes they are annoyng but also easy to fool or outmanouver, they are not a problem from anyone

ps2: i suggest you to play 1 month as 1hander cmp, so you will understand why the top 10 player of this game are all 2h-pole and none is a 1handers, in fact 95% of 1hander SUCK, and rarely top score.



Vicious666 Leader of the VAACBI     (Vicious Armada Against Cmp Bad Ideas)

[bruce]

Cmp, airing your k/d? 

Anyway, sounds interesting, with different hilt damage and perhaps s-key heroism, also a shield change.

[EyeBeat]

I'm just intrigued by what you mean here:

I hope I may be interpreting this incorrectly, but it sounds like in situations where you can't really parry opponents (2+ v 1), your shield would take more damage than it does now. All I really ask is that shield has the same effective performance against multiple foes as it does now if the change is ever implemented.

The parrying sounds interesting, but I am puzzled how it would be any better than fighting without shield at all if you can block somewhat decently. That's why I said that the parry would have to be good if it points to shield being better at 1v1 and worse in group fights. If shield is going to be fine in group fights, then I am all for it. Adding any additional stun to turtling would make the right swing nigh useless. I am also wondering how much one will be punished from failing to parry, since the heavy shields + high shield skill can easily take ~30 hits from a non shield breaker.

EDIT: What I mean to say is that turtles are the ones who have such heavy shields and high shield skill. Regular shielders with only 4-5 shield and non-huscarl might have their shield break much more when fighting more than 1 person, when it already doesn't take that many hits if you don't have much shield.

This is coming from an aggressive shielder. I learned a long time ago that turtling isn't even that good and only a few people can do it well. I just hope you can elaborate to clear any worries.

There is seriously no reason to carry a shield if what cmp says is true.With how kick blocking works right now the game is insanely balanced towards 2 handers.

 Might as well just use shields as off hand arrow blockers I guess.

Let me know cmp because I will stop playing if that is the case.

[slimpyman]

i mean, me being the most prevalent and dominant piker in NA, i must say this. I know rusty has always been sword and board, and the dude is actually a decent player, all his comments are legit. But me, being a pike master of Crpg, i really see it as being a nerf, but I can adjust i believe.


In all actuality, I think its a change we must play out, or adapt with. Give it a few weeks, and then lets see where it ends up.