Good ways to die and Lame ways to kill. Trying to measure "Fun".

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

you dont need a pole to show that everyone loves to kill archers!

[Kafein]

And let's be honest, the real backstabbers in this game are the cav..

Which is fucked up. Badly. Cav shouldn't be forced to backstab.

Actually, killing infantry as cav is probably the least satisfying on average, because of the difficulty of cav vs cav, and the absolute stupidity of cav vs archer bazooka-enabled fairy. Even if the chances are slim, it's still a lot harder to kill aware archers than aware infantry as cav, which makes 0 sense.


I don't really get your cav hate (or isn't it hate ?), thomek. We (light cav) are ninjas like you, but just clumsier and faster. Our satisfaction is akin to yours when you backstab someone. It depends on who died.

When I die to cav as a footman, I always end up thinking about all the troubles my enemy had to get through to kill me. Ranged don't need to go through 2h, polearms and arrowstorms to get their kills.

[Paul]

Removing cav and ranged next patch so Thomek can live his dream of taking on men piles from behind undisturbed.

[Kafein]

Removing cav and ranged next patch so Thomek can live his dream of taking on men piles from behind undisturbed.

Psychorigid much ?

You could try to answer in a rational way, for a change ?

[Teeth]

Thomek hates cav cause he flanks, the flanks are cav territory, as a flanking ninja you need to consistently deal with cavalry. Although I expect cav to get scared away by Thomek's damn throwing.

Worst ways to get killed:

-You are zigzagging your way to a crossbowmen, you lift your sword and then a millisecond before you hit him his bolt goes off and kills you.

-You are fighting a worthy opponent for about a minute now, you hit him once, he hit you once. Epic standoff. Then anarcher shoots you in the ass, if its a friendly its even worse. Or even when an archer shoots your opponent in the ass. Just the pinnacle of cRPG epicness, ruined.

- Shot by roofcamping archers, theres just nothing I can do.

- Get killed by a noob spammer that crutches on armour. Like this Ivani4 guy. I hit him like 5 times, then I glance. His str warcleaver oneshots me. Urgh!

Most satisfying kills:

- Beating a gamechanger 1 on 1.

- Sneak up on an archer and stab him in the head with a long dagger. Probably wont kill him in 1 hit, but eh, archers cant block long daggers.

- Spinthrusting a lancer of his horse that thought you were unaware of him.

- When you are in crazy berserk mode and kill people with 360 jump slashes.

-That reminds me off surprising constant 2h stabbers in duel, with a quick jump slash to the head.

[Sawbone]

True the adrenaline rush is rare in gaming, and i've experienced it in cRPG more than in any other game. As for me, the things that makes me rage quit:

Losing a x5 because a clan roof camped (or did not participate in any way) and let their teammates die outnumbered.
Cav backstab
Early death
Roof campers in general
Bad maps

I used to hate archery/xbowmen shooting me early in a round... then I bought a Xbow. Upkeep is nasty but jesus christ: some of those god damn backstabbing Cavs got a Steel Bolt in the face a few times already.  That is reeeally satisfying to me ;)

Xbow long shots are also very fun to land, or a facelift to a opponent closing in for what he though was a sure kill.

But nothing beats a melee win against a duelist with similar or superior skill level.

[Ujin]

I think you're very biased.

/Close thread.

[Casimir]

Getting 2 hit killed by a hilt slash from a super fast katana - lame

Being killed by 2h cav - Good

[Grumbs]

Lamest Death: Archers kills Infantry
Most satisfying kill: Infantry kills Infantry

I like to feel in control of the way I die. If I can feel like I screwed up in some way then fine, I have no problem dying at all. If I fail to block or make a bad move I should die. Similarly if I get a kill against another infantry I find it pretty satisfying. I don't really mind dying to cav because at least they have to get up close and you can block them, and hear them coming usually. You can see the skill some cav players have too. But if a pack of archers shoot me, especially in the middle of a fairish fight I kinda feel cheated. I have an archer alt and I just find it boring. I can even choose 10 more points in melee with my 2 hander (at 150 odd atm) or 80 odd in crossbows, and not have any balancing factor to stop me whipping out a crossbow when I feel like it. I use a shield but that can only help so much. I can wait for half the round until there are fewer archers or more opportunities to flank, but thats half a round wasted. It just slows the whole gameplay down imo.

I don't even think removing ladders is the way to fix it. It could help, but then you will just get people standing at medium range doing the same thing, while having easier shots and being lower down so more likely to hit a team mate. If their team mates are smart they will have infantry guarding them too and then if you over extend you will die shortly after possibly killing something

The ranged mechanics in the game are just too simple when you have awesome depth elsewhere. Not enough arc on the shots and too much damage, plus the debilitating stun when hit which is independent of the damage. Needs an overhaul imo. Oh, and the effort they put in for the payoff in damage is pretty comical to me. Shouldn't be piercing

[Toffey]

Infantry fights are always the best. While it can be satisfying to cut down a rider and see his horse run off into the distance, or to plough through a group of archers (Damn the archers that are good at melee!), there's nothing as fun as a fight between infantry. As a shielder, taking on a group of enemies always feels good. Blocking attacks coming at you from all around, striking at some unaware guy who's running towards you aimlessly with his weapon chambered. Those are fun moments. Having a shield break and having to manual block is exciting as well.

The worst deaths are the ones where I do something stupid. Like block when there's an enemy with a crush-through weapon. Or letting go of block when the animation looks finished, rather than when it actually hits.

Also, tkers who don't apologize.

[Polobow]

One tactic i really hate and is very cheap is the bumpslash. I can't see how satisfying that is.

[Grumbs]

One tactic i really hate and is very cheap is the bumpslash. I can't see how satisfying that is.

Thats another one - people who play like they're driving a 4x4 and just plough right into people. Riding into someone isn't really skillful if you do that just for the impact damage. Getting knocked over is realistic, but theres no way you could do that repeatedly with a horse without it getting injured or becoming out of control. I know realism isn't 100% important, but if you're going to have knockdowns for realism you could have some other realism to balance that. At least when you fall off a horse you should take decent amounts of damage when you face plant into the ground, or slow the horse down more when it hits a player or do damage the horse.

[Tristan]

It's funny to see how far people are willing to go in order to seem objective while at the same time have the game adapt to their_playstyle.

What gives me a good adreneline rush is being in a good duel. Be that against an archer, a horseman or an infantry.

But as Teeth said, if you learn to read the way a battle develops neither cav, nor archers are especially powerful.

As the statistics fasader provided the other day show, more than 70% of all kills are made by melee classes.
I believe that all the whining against archery stems from the fact that we see far more 2h/polearmers who wants to be able to run around without thinking, staying cover and play smart.

Personally I am not a great fan of ladders though. Might be good to see them go away.

[Thomek]

Removing cav and ranged next patch so Thomek can live his dream of taking on men piles from behind undisturbed.

Yes I am biased, like every other player. (not ironic here)
That's why I made a poll, explained my personal biased position, and asked players how they feel about this.

I do it because cRPG has devs who listens to and interacts with the playerbase, and because thinking of how cRPG could be better has become a kind of hobby of mine.   I may be wrong, but sometimes sharing ideas spins into new ideas with devs that are open and not completely pigheaded, and the mod eventually gets better. Starting out a few "philosophical" threads now and then just to measure where cRPG is at this moment, and what it can or should be is OK right?

I DO realize cav and ranged are needed in cRPG dear Paulus. They are a part of the dynamic mix of massed high speed fighting going on. I'm just asking the question whether it is FUN that they are so many, so good and so powerful as they are.

Let me ask some questions:

Do you think it could be a connection between the amount of ranged, the roofcamping and the power of cav?
Do you think dying by huge amounts of cav or arrows is fun? (Because as with projectiles, cav becomes unproportionally stronger in numbers)
Do you think these trends could actually be self-reinforcing?

If can you answer yes to these questions, perhaps it is time to think about IF and HOW we would want to try and reverse it.

[Teeth]

I do it because cRPG has devs who listens to and interacts with the playerbase,

This is where you're wrong. They don't care if the community screams for something, they'll do whatever they want, which isn't always for the best cause they don't play their own game. At best you can get a sarcastic comment from Paul, which makes me have so much respect for the dev team.