How do you know they were muslims?
I wonder if Oberyn is coming to the party...
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I really don't know what to think at this point :/
Wow, this is closer to me than I would like. Brussels airport often flies to Prague. Good thing I live in a town of 11k people. I think noone would bomb my town, but clearing it with AKs would be super easy, because our cops are are even worse than those US stereotypes with donuts. :)The authors of the book "Freakonomics" made a thought experiment about terrorism. They asked their readers which form of terrorism would be the cheapest to execute, the hardest to stop, and the most fear-inducing. The discussion was supposed to help security planners with their preparation for potential threats.
Even more NSFW version (wut):(click to show/hide)
Technology isHumans are responsible.
Technology is responsible.
*DISCLAIMER - I in no way think this is a good idea and would hate any government that chooses to operate this way*
Purely as a thought experiment, it depends on your definition of 'prevent terrorism'.
It wouldn't stop the attacks themselves necessarily, but the entire impact of these attacks (unless costing millions in damages to infrastructure) is the exposure. How could a terror organisation that's trying to be elusive possibly be able to compete with a system that can 100% hide the occurrence of a terror attack, completely mislead the populace as to the impact and lead people's expectations moving forwards. You cant spread terror if nobody reports your futile little suicide-bombings.
Also, an argument may be made that operating in this way would reduce the number of suicide bombings. I imagine that in order to suicide bomb civilian targets, you need to be pretty damn sure that your sacrifice will accomplish something greater. If you are faced with the reality that nothing you do will even make the local papers you'd need some *serious* brainwashing to believe that your bombing will achieve anything.
I just find it an interesting concept. I guess we'll know whether or not that would actually work the moment Russia starts being a global target for terrorist organisations.
Such a thing is fundamentally impossible to prepare against.It's not. You just need to let your citizens defend themselves and stop with the sheep attitude ("oh-goodness-the-police-needs-to-protect-me"). Unfortunately, modern society is a breeding ground for sheep. The mere thought that you could look after yourself is alien, no matter what happens people call the big brother to solve their problems for them.
What can we do? Two pistols and shotgun for everyone? That's a pretty high price.
And to actually prepare for a sneak attack from a moving vehicle, you would need to have your gun trained on each car passing by, just in case it has a terrorist in it.Nope. One, the car would have to slow down, if the terr'ists want to hit anything. Two, they'd stick the gun out of the window so as not to go deaf. Three, shooting from a car is difficult even under the best of conditions. Four, nothing says you (the armed citizen) will be the primary/first target, in which case returning fire will be much easier.
Sure, but it's a much more realistic statement if you're armed. Vast majority of people aren't capable of going against people armed with firearms. Of course many attempted attacks/attacks/suspected attacks lately have shown that the attitude is most important. See: airplane incidents where the passengers swarm the suspect(s), that train thing in France where 2-3 people took down the shooter armed with AK-47, etc.
You don't need a gun to believe that last statement, but I wish more people had that attitude in general.
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A lot is still going to happen, it's so easy nowadays to induce terror and people only see what they want to see.
Nah, less than $2000.00.
ISIS
pros: forum is alive
cons: killing people
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Yeah, let's give everybody guns, I'm sure that will solve the issue.(click to show/hide)
Nope. One, the car would have to slow down, if the terr'ists want to hit anything. Two, they'd stick the gun out of the window so as not to go deaf. Three, shooting from a car is difficult even under the best of conditions. Four, nothing says you (the armed citizen) will be the primary/first target, in which case returning fire will be much easier.
It's not a fool proof method of preventing X percentage of terror attacks. It's a method of not being scared, of being willing to fight back. Of governments not hindering those of their citizens who are willing and able to defend themselves and those around them. There is no way, aside from a massive Big Brother state which would limit all freedoms, to prevent all the attacks. And a ridiculously small amount of people dying to terrorism annually is not cause enough to sell away your freedom. So that's an important distinction to make it. It's not so much that having armed citizens will prevent the majority of attacks, it's a mindset thing. "Attack us if you will, but we'll fight back, we won't be afraid, and we won't be easy targets."
Terrorism feeds off of the panicky sheep fear. It's useless against a society that is not afraid.
Yeah, let's give everybody guns, I'm sure that will solve the issue.Yeah, would have solved the issue of that guy, for one. Gave up immediately when people with guns showed up, despite his bravado that he'd "die fighting."
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The prices are high and fear is the central concept.Meanwhile in real life, all the attackers have been incompetent and not super ninjas who sneak-assassinate people.
Going back the specific example though, no, you couldn't defend against a sneak attack like that. They would not play it fair and take aim when you are paying attention. And they would likely be away before you unholstered your weapon.
Furthermore if someone did take out the attacker, well that's just one more martyr. Loss of life doesn't matter on that side.
I'm not sure how great guns are for not being so afraid. The principal risk would still always be there, and if armed citizens rendered some type of attack too likely to fail, at most it would mean a change of tactics for terrorists, probably back to these suicide bombings that just happened.
Lol at the person that said we didn't know it was muslims.I might not have been serious, two attacks ago though we actually had some very serious discussions along those lines, I guess two more attacks finally proved to be too much statistical evidence.
Furthermore if someone did take out the attacker, well that's just one more martyr. Loss of life doesn't matter on that side.Bullshit, there is lots of imaginary belief and not a lot of true conviction, even in a religion radical islam. The amount of people that think they believe in terrorist martyrdom is way higher than the amount of people willing to actually put on the belt. Carrying out a small terrorist attack on your own in which you would kill more than three infidels is piss-easy, and we would be in big trouble if all of radical Islam actually believed what they claim to believe.
Bullshit, there is lots of imaginary belief and not a lot of true conviction, even in a religion radical islam. The amount of people that think they believe in terrorist martyrdom is way higher than the amount of people willing to actually put on the belt. Carrying out a small terrorist attack on your own in which you would kill more than three infidels is piss-easy, and we would be in big trouble if all of radical Islam actually believed what they claim to believe.Yes, and there are a lot of people who pussy out at the last second in suicide attacks.
I don't think arming citiziens would really prevent much tbh, could just end up like USA where more people are murdered for a dollar every year than people die from Terrorism in Europe.
Or could end up like Switzerland. Military trained people have weapons ready at home and do yearly mandatory training. Though Switzerland is probably the only country in the world that is able to pull that off.
Bullshit, there is lots of imaginary belief and not a lot of true conviction, even in a religion radical islam. The amount of people that think they believe in terrorist martyrdom is way higher than the amount of people willing to actually put on the belt. Carrying out a small terrorist attack on your own in which you would kill more than three infidels is piss-easy, and we would be in big trouble if all of radical Islam actually believed what they claim to believe.
You forget Israell
Do terrorist attacks get stopped in Israel?
Over projecting from a prejudiced point of view.
+ cost of funerals and hospitalization
"We, the citizen of the western world, have to get accustomed, that terrorism is part of our daily routine." (translated by me)
1 or 2, at most 3 or 4 terrorist attacks per year isn't that bad, we can live with that.
They have something similar in place?
Idk how the Swiss permits deal with open carry or concealed carry. They have assault rifles at home, but can they carry a pistol (even concealed one) in public places? That would be kind of a requirement if citizens were to be able to stop a terrorist act like in xant's scenario.
Imagine the damage they could really do if they had someone with IQ above 50 in their ops.
They have something similar in place?There's also a lot of gun's homicide in Switzerland higher per capita than other EU countries (you could see it in a graph in the other gun thread), although it went down since we can't keep army munitions at home only the gun. We can not carry a weapon in public place, we can carry them only to travel to the army or to the shooting range.
Idk how the Swiss permits deal with open carry or concealed carry. They have assault rifles at home, but can they carry a pistol (even concealed one) in public places? That would be kind of a requirement if citizens were to be able to stop a terrorist act like in xant's scenario.
I am so sorry for dead people whose lives are more valuable than middle easterns...
I am so sorry for dead people whose lives are more valuable than middle easterns...More valuable only by right of proximity, Belgium is in the heart of our culture.
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How do you know they were muslims?
guns, guns, guns, guns, guns...
i'd not feel safer if in my country everybody who wouldn't be a total asshole could have a gun.
More valuable only by right of proximity, Belgium is in the heart of our culture.
Seems you are hypocritical or anti-western enough to not care about our dead, making it a political project like last time, while at the same time projecting that we don't care about other groups in some Muslim martyr trip, defending against your own unpleasant impulses by attributing them to others.
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It really does interest me how much of these attacks are centrally and meticulously planned by organised terror groups, or how much are just randomers or random groups that the large organisations are more than happy to take credit for. Honestly don't know which would be scarier tho.
Wouldn't it be fun to be middle-eastern looking? You could totally scam ISIS out of money and live the life you want for a few years before having to work again.
He must've felt so lonely. :(
He must've felt so lonely. :(
I fail to see how guns would prevent a guy exploding in a train or a plane crashing into sI love youcrapers honestly :/ more cons than pros. What about the army patrolling the streets or shit like that? I don't know honestly, but arming people is just retarded to me
I fail to see how guns would prevent a guy exploding in a train or a plane crashing into sI love youcrapers honestly :/ more cons than pros. What about the army patrolling the streets or shit like that? I don't know honestly, but arming people is just retarded to me
I fail to see how guns would prevent a guy exploding in a train or a plane crashing into sI love youcrapers honestly :/ more cons than pros. What about the army patrolling the streets or shit like that? I don't know honestly, but arming people is just retarded to meIn the France attacks, guns would have helped with the former since they didn't blow themselves up immediately. And you don't see how guns would stop a plane crashing into sI love youcrapers? How do you think the terrorists get control of the plane?
aye we value western life more than middle-easterns, i'm sry
Wouldn't it be fun to be middle-eastern looking? You could totally scam ISIS out of money and live the life you want for a few years before having to work again.There was a story about women from russia or caucase, that were saying they wanted to join the caliphate but needed money to leave their country, they managed to fool isis and get the money twice.
let me fix itYes, obviously Western people value Western life more. Especially when it's people from the Middle East who are killing Westerners. So what? What is your major insight here supposed to be?
In the France attacks, guns would have helped with the former since they didn't blow themselves up immediately. And you don't see how guns would stop a plane crashing into sI love youcrapers? How do you think the terrorists get control of the plane?
So you d give every passenger on the plane the right to hold a gun on a plane? Seriously? Would rather intensify control (as probably has happened since then) but giving everyone a gun (potential terrorists aswell) still seems retarded
No because then it would be like the wild west and the strongest cunts will survive and nobody will have the edge on the others.
Then whoever brings grenades to the fight will get called a n00b and told to L2P and get called a scrub for not being able to hang with the gun pros.
Or the richest ones, those who can barricade on top of a hill with a .50 cal, surrounded by mine fields etc.
So you d give every passenger on the plane the right to hold a gun on a plane? Seriously? Would rather intensify control (as probably has happened since then) but giving everyone a gun (potential terrorists aswell) still seems retardedNope, that's not what I said.
let me fix it
aye we value western life more than middle-easterns, i'm sry
How about you westerners stop importing dem goatfuckers and go back to good old (south)eastern Europeans? We won't blow ourselves in a crowd, that's a promise. We'll just be lazy as usual and doing all sorts of crazy and fun stuff.
There's been a terrorist attack in Rīga? What.
*channels Oberyn*
google says 28 injures.. I don't knowCould you give me a link? I find nothing through google. The most I found was a couple of bombings in 1998, that caused some property damage, no injuries.
harpag's map is LOL
i was even wondering if i could draw some totally stupid graph or map but about interesting topic myself and share it via facebook if it would have a chance to spread worldwide. any ideas what map/graph could work?
map of terrorists attacks (11.09.2001 r. - today):(click to show/hide)
statistics says that Poland will be next
harpag's map is LOL
i was even wondering if i could draw some totally stupid graph or map but about interesting topic myself and share it via facebook if it would have a chance to spread worldwide. any ideas what map/graph could work?
Iceland aswell?
yet they won't show a photo of Bin Laden with a bullet between his eyes because it might offend people.
It's sickening to see the media jump at every chance to display the victims scarred, maimed and helpless, it shows no respect to the victims and gives whatever future scumbags that are planning on doing more attacks the satisfaction and attention they want. It's the equivalent of showing a serial killer's trophy photos and making them public for all to see. I can only imagine the rage the victim's families must feel and the lack of justice and closure.
There are hundreds of thousands of pictures out there of terrorist attack victims yet they won't show a photo of Bin Laden with a bullet between his eyes because it might offend people.
About Breivik. Most people on this planet still find Norway retarded for letting him live after what he did. Only in fucked up country you can kill 100 people and spend rest of your life playing video games in prison cell better equipped than average home.
Its not like its their fault. Prisons there are ment to recreate not punish. Unlike the US prisons where generally even minor offenders get so fucked up they end up being major offenders for life. If they wanted him to suffer they should have sold him to the russians to be placed in some harsh Siberian prison.
we (europeans) are not the cause of your (probably turkish) fucked up life. try to look elsewhere please, ty.
haha true, tell me what you're interested in? Maybe I could help you, who knows? :wink:
anyone could, but bleached assholes are to much. i think it should contain information related to both refugees and terror attacks, something that will instantly cause hateful/grateful emotions - maybe different opinions among women and men could also be added into it. maybe it should be a graph and not a map so it could be presented on facebook immediately after some other terror actions happen. its just about finding really catching name of the graph.
something like terror attack support in europe among different groups of refugees according to age / gender / origin / religion (its the best i've been able to come up with)
How will pampering criminals prevent them from committing more crime? You need to give them a reason not to commit crimes. Not all crimes are committed by people with mental illnesses. Not all crimes are committed by people who are "too stressed" and can't deal with life. Crimes are committed by people who want to harm others. There are people in this world who desire to do wrong. It's not something wrong with their brain, it's a conscious choice. Giving them a cushy apartments inside a prison with television and internet will not deter them from committing more crime. It won't show them what they did was wrong. Criminals need to be punished. They need to be shown what they did was wrong.
Yet somehow nordics got barely any people locked up and lot less crime in general than US. Those cushy apartments and television have proven to be extremely effective in recreating. A person gets locked up and the only part taken from him is his freedom. He gets out, he can readjust. The punishment to the max doesnt really work because you take more than a persons freedom in those places. A guy cant readjust with the normal society anymore. His so fucking broken from the harsh punishment that its like they got back from Vietnam. Why even bother to lock em up in that case? Just shoot them there. I just dont believe the insane amount of prisoners the US has were all born beond repair evil. Thats just not possible.
It's weird to me hearing the reporting on all this. Photos of bombed out public spaces or footage of crowds running from the dark plumes of smoke behind them are very familiar sites over here on tv and in the papers and we hate seeing them in the news but it's not a *new* thing.
I appreciate that some countries are nice places and haven't pissed off half the world, so terrorism against their civilian population is a relatively new thing and some people are only seeing it happen 'on their doorstep' for the first time. So there's a lot of shock value.
But even at work I hear colleagues saying stuff like 'it's like nowhere is safe now' or 'it's happening more and more' and these are guys/gals old enough to know when this shit was commonplace in the UK. Terrorist attacks in the UK have actually gone down *a lot* in the last 10 years, the difference is that now there are more attacks aimed at previously 'safe' lovely countries that didn't do anything to piss anyone off and that almost hurts more (even when it's not my country) and the media is fucking loving it! So even over here the media narrative is that terrorist attacks like this are more common now than ever and on the rise when in actual fact the reality is the same number of attacks (or fewer) spread over more countries with far more attention from international media. Nothing sells paper like terrorism does, just see what it's done to this dying forum.
sigh beau...
i have plenty of things to tell you but excuse my english... how you(europeans) fucked up the rest of the world but it is obvious that you are such a redneck and not capable of thinking deeply
you will continue to ignore what happens in the world until global terrorist set bombs and kill innocents in your country(prorbably czech republic right ? - oh yeah my fav search: czech home orgy)
So you believe rapists, murderers, and thieves should be rewarded for ruining other people's lives by being pampered by the government with tax dollars from the same people they destroyed?
kekeke burn the evil doers! Also and as a funny note, in Sweden you can get a life sentence for: Murder, kidnapping, arson, sabotage, devastation, hijacking, espionage, terror crimes, rebellion, endangering the public health by spread of contagion or poison, disloyalty when negotiating with foreign powers, dealing with anti-personnel mines, cluster bombs or chemical or nuclear weapons, unlawful nuclear explosion, treason, genocide and (the following in wartime only) mutiny, insubordination, undermining the will to fight, desertion, unauthorised capitulation, negligence of war preparations and negligence of battle duty; attempts, accessories, accomplices and incitements of all the above crimes might also be punished with life. Although in practice "life sentence" in Sweden almost always means 18 years then parole.
we (europeans) are not the cause of your (probably turkish) fucked up life. try to look elsewhere please, ty.
sigh beau...
i have plenty of things to tell you but excuse my english... how you(europeans) fucked up the rest of the world
sigh beau...
i have plenty of things to tell you but excuse my english... how you(europeans) fucked up the rest of the world
But not Turkey? After all you invaded Europe, not the other way around. We didn't cause your problems.
sigh beau...
i have plenty of things to tell you but excuse my english... how you(europeans) fucked up the rest of the world but it is obvious that you are such a redneck and not capable of thinking deeply
you will continue to ignore what happens in the world until global terrorist set bombs and kill innocents in your country(prorbably czech republic right ? - oh yeah my fav search: czech home orgy)
i really love like nobody really cares about ww2 anymore in europe
This chart shows the number of persons killed by terrorist attacks 1970-2015 in Western Europe
https://www.statista.com/chart/4093/people-killed-by-terrorist-attacks-in-western-europe-since-1970/
In general I do agree with you, but I think it's important to forgive, but not forget.
graph is good, but it doesn't show what everybody now wants to see :)
Nope, since it doesnt match their fears
Again doesn't fit the current narrative, because it shows that Islamic terrorism isn't this new terrifying thing, and it shows that the attacks are less common and less deadly than say... between 1985 & 1990 if you were to compare that to the last 5 years. Pffff, nobody would buy newspapers if these stats were on the front page.
- Unrelated note, the orange/green/white combo on that table makes me think of the Irish flag. Somehow that's appropriate. A flat decrease across the board with IRA, ETA and Other extreme political party attacks almost disappearing this decade, and Islamic attacks increasing and peaking between 1988-1990, and decreasing since but still very much an issue.
i was notified of a mistake (didn't include munich to muslims :)) so i fixed the graph.
i'm not sure if it doesn't fit the narrative - because on the other hand you can say that muslims being still such a small minority in the eu can still make quite a huge mess.
You guys are retarded i must say, not you all but most.
Have you ever heard of Sendero Luminoso, Aum Shinrikyo, Tamil Eelam, Eta, FARC and so on ? Tamil had catholic leadership and killed 23.5K officer and tens of thousands of civilians.
Those are not global, yes. Maybe because they are not invaded by 48 countries and they don't feel like they have to avenge the destruction caused by the "Westerners".
1.3 million ppl died in Iraq, coalition left 870.000 orphans behind. Rape, oppression, torture. Every piece of that land was fucked up by those invaders. Then they crowned a Kurdish puppet on a Arab country. Oppression never end. What did you expect to get in return ? Because that's how you get ISIS.
Terror is not something related with any religion, your first step against the terrorism must start from there.
Taliban was a freedom fighter when they were fighting against the Soviet invaders, then they became terrorists when they fight against Western invaders. Fuck off.
PKK have listed as terrorist organization by NATO, U.S, European Union, and Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Canada, Germany, Iran, Japan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Netherlands, New Zealand, Spain, Syria individually.
So, how you will explain this shit in the middle of Brussels right before the bombings;(click to show/hide)
Is it OK to support a terrorist organization freely if they don't bomb you but the others ? This is not how you fight against terrorism, two-faced pricks.
Wake the fuck up ppl, either WE ALL fight against terrorism TOGETHER on a global scale, or this will never end. You can die while taking a bus to your home at any time, so do i. You need to realise that we as the humanity are all in the same boat.
Geopolitics. The US tried to use them to counter SU involvement in the region, which was a bigger enemy at the time.
Oberyn incantation spell
I think that's just human nature. Besides, even knowing what the "mistakes" of the past were, one does not necessarily have the best intentions.
In general I do agree with you, but I think it's important to forgive, but not forget.
It's just remarkable when everything goes to shit and then people sound surprised. Like 'o we funded ultra extremist groups, invaded the country they were occupying and now they're attacking us? How could they? They must be evil!'
How is that relevant? Some other religiously-motivated groups are violent because of their religious beliefs, did anybody here say anything to the contrary?Sendero Luminoso had no business with religion, neither FARC nor ETA.
Oh poor Arabs, evil Westerners are causing them to suicide bomb in Brussels.Oh poor europeans, fucks ppl's home up, then cries when get killed in return.
I wonder how many of those 1.3 million did Josh Homme kill personally. I don't know what we could expect? Maybe something along the lines of post-ww2 Germany? Or was the utter destruction of a whole country and its splitting into meaningless blocs completely different? Who the hell are these invaders you are talking about? The ones that left after Iraq elected a government representative of the majority of the population?You can find the invaders list in seconds by simply using google. Elected government ? LOL. I think you mean that U.S puppet Kurd who put into power by U.S, to an Arab country. Yea, majority.
Is it though? Is it so surprising that a religion that preaches violence and death at every corner has violent followers and a martyr culture?There is no difference between extremist islam and extremist x-y-z. One bombs with aircraft, other makes themselves a bomb.
Geopolitics. The US tried to use them to counter SU involvement in the region, which was a bigger enemy at the time.True, but same shit. "Politics" can be a legit answer for any argument, but still doesn't change the fact that they're two-faced pricks.
Except out of these, only Turkey acts as if Kurds are untermensch. I wouldn't know about Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan or Kazakhstan and I suppose their attitude is on sale, but I'm pretty sure all the others would recognize an independent Kurdistan.Turkey is not acting that way, you know nothing Jon Snow. Sure, they will recognize it as long as their interests are overlapping.
Actually, supporting Kurdish independence isn't the same as supporting the Kurdish terror attacks in Turkey.So from your point of view, one can support ISIS independence and curse ISIS terror attacks at the same time. Seems legit.
No, not really. Me and you are being targeted by lunatics because of our *way of life* and bullshit pseudo-historical reasons.No, me and you are being targeted because we're batting the beehive.
Sendero Luminoso had no business with religion, neither FARC nor ETA.
Oh poor europeans, fucks ppl's home up, then cries when get killed in return.
*I'm really sorry for the losses and i don't mean that, but with your stupid generalisation, you made me say it.
You can find the invaders list in seconds by simply using google. Elected government ? LOL. I think you mean that U.S puppet Kurd who put into power by U.S, to an Arab country. Yea, majority.
Homme don't have to kill them all personally, they turned that place into a free for all land, zero public order with no law. So yes, West is the responsible for 1.3 million deaths.
There is no difference between extremist islam and extremist x-y-z. One bombs with aircraft, other makes themselves a bomb.
True, but same shit. "Politics" can be a legit answer for any argument, but still doesn't change the fact that they're two-faced pricks.
Turkey is not acting that way, you know nothing Jon Snow. Sure, they will recognize it as long as their interests are overlapping.
So from your point of view, one can support ISIS independence and curse ISIS terror attacks at the same time. Seems legit.
Also, that photo is a PKK tent, who killed approximately 30K ppl in Turkey and the responsible of terror attacks. That picture is a proof of openly, clearly, publicly supporting a terrorist organization. What a shame.
No, me and you are being targeted because we're batting the beehive.
Maybe you feel good, but as stated in your post you will die, the world will move on, and no one will care. A shallow superficial life that achieves nothing. A human living like that truly is worthless.
Jesus was wrong.
Of course not. And that I think undercuts much of the US led involvement in the Middle-East and Central Asia. There were never any good intentions, just false pretext and smoke and mirrors for a greater agenda, whether it be stopping the rise of communism, oil or whatever.
It's just remarkable when everything goes to shit and then people sound surprised. Like 'o we funded ultra extremist groups, invaded the country they were occupying and now they're attacking us? How could they? They must be evil!'
Of course much of that is propagated by the media and Governments to cover their own fuck ups.
Fuck it the world is messed up and people in general are just shits.
/end discussion
Your point being?Terror is not about religion.
So according to your logic, we should just nuke the hell out of the entire middle-east as retaliation?No, we shouldn't be there in the first place.
"you made me say it" oh you have no idea how appropriate that is, poor little agency-deprived thing.It was a sarcasm against your generalisation towards Arabs.
You don't know what "invader" means. Also yeah, elected government that took a long time to form and spent a lot of energy trying to clean up the Sunni minority holding most of the power in the country, which led in part to the rebellion in the North.They didn't ask you to come with your army, and that makes you an invader. Sunni sect is the majority of Mid East. It's %50-50 in Iraq if we exclude Turkmens. They have nothing to do with the sectarian violence.
So what would have happened had the coalition not invaded Iraq? I'm curious what kind of fairyland you think it was before. Of course, the West is also responsible for the rampant religious and tribal extremism pervading every layer of society in Iraq. But I digress, this isn't even close to the actual stated rationale by Daech for the recent attacks.Nothing gives you any right to invade any country which you are 5.000km away from, and have no connection. World wouldn't have to suffer from ISIS if we didn't bring democracy to Iraq.
Turkey is making sure that Peshmergas are hit as hard as possible by Daech and practically fabricating "PKK attacks". That plus violently repressing all forms of domestic dissidence in favor of Kurdish independence and in general. What's the freedom index of Turkey again?Turkey is making sure that YPG is hit as hard as possible by any other organization which located near them. YPG is PKK's Syrian extension, which is stated by Barzani 2 days ago. Current Peshmerga leader.
Except Kurdistan would be in no way similar to ISIS. "ISIS independence" has nothing to do with self-determination whatsoever.ISIS have much thing to do with self-determination. They want to form a Sunni state and govern themselves. And they did. The IS part of ISIS is now actually a state.
Yes, when the Turkish ambassador asked him about it, Didier Reinders answered "I support Kurdish terrorists!". It's a tent.Could you make that tent for ISIS in Belgium ? No. So how do they make PKK tent ? an organization which is declared as terrorist by both EU and NATO. Just how ? This is nothing but my terrorist and your terrorist case. They don't give a fuck just because it doesn't bite them.
So as I said, according to your line of thinking the entire ISIS territory is fair game for annihilation, now that we are attacked?As i said, our stupid politic maneuvers caused ISIS, now we're suffering from the consequences.
Ask anyone who's been in Iraq, Kurds are the only decent people there.I've been in Iraq, Iran and Turkey. It's not something like googling from 5.000km away. Those decent people doing ethnic cleansing in Northern Iraq and Syria. You can find human rights workers and EU diplomat reports online.
What were you doing there? Attending Al Qaeda training camps?
I've been in Iraq, Iran and Turkey. It's not something like googling from 5.000km away. Those decent people doing ethnic cleansing in Northern Iraq and Syria. You can find human rights workers and EU diplomat reports online.
If it wasn't for how retarded DKNhz is, this thread would be boring. Keep on keeping on.
Yeah, we're just recycling same garbage over and over again. It's nice to see fresh face around here. It helps that he's young, Turkish and obviously clueless.Oh, he's Turkish? That explains.... well, everything.
Yeah, we're just recycling same garbage over and over again. It's nice to see fresh face around here. It helps that he's young, Turkish and obviously clueless.It would be good if there is any correct statement in that sentence. Sadly, all are wrong.
What were you doing there? Attending Al Qaeda training camps?Is that your argument for real ? Not surprised, you had nothing to say. They have magnificent places, stunning architecture. You should visit too.
It would be good if there is any correct statement in that sentence. Sadly, all are wrong.
Is that your argument for real ? Not surprised, you had nothing to say. They have magnificent places, stunning architecture. You should visit too.
Oh, he's Turkish? That explains.... well, everything.visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Is that your argument for real ? Not surprised, you had nothing to say. They have magnificent places, stunning architecture. You should visit too.It wasn't an argument.
Simple Definition of argument
: a statement or series of statements for or against something
: a discussion in which people express different opinions about something
: an angry disagreement
Simple Definition of question
: a sentence, phrase, or word that asks for information or is used to test someone's knowledge
: a matter or problem that is being discussed : a subject or topic
: doubt or uncertainty about something
Happy Easter for everyone of you!BOOOOORING!
Happy Easter for everyone of you!
DKNhz :1 Xant and Leshma: 0
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Happy Easter for everyone of you!
I'm fairly sure I've seen him speaking Turkish on server.
When Xant uses dictionnary definition to prove he's not wrong, you know he is at his limit.
You remind me I should go back to that discussion about free will, right now it gives the impression that I care about whatever is written in Merriam-Webster.You should if you're discussing free will without defining it. If you're not defining it, then common sense dictates you're using the definition that's in all the dictionaries. It's like if I was talking about which dog is the best dog when discussing my favorite wine, and then saying I don't care what the dictionary claims a dog is. You can use the word "dog" when talking about wines for all I care, but you'll have to define it first or I'm going to think you're talking about dogs, since you're using the English language to communicate.
Yes, but he's not new and you don't know if he's young, thus my comment, but doesn't matter anyway :D
Xant said to me:You shouldn't speak badly of murder before you've tried it.
http://forum.melee.org/general-off-topic/dream-is-alive/105/
" I see that you're very childlike and naïve. Real life isn't a disney tale buddy, there's nothing "heroic" about going to war. And "civilized" is an empty word that means nothing."
Oh Xant, so we should gas every german (including kids) at the end of WWII, because it's effective and can prevent from WWIII? I'm not buying your "logic". I prefer to be childlike and naive than murder. Power of today's arsenals is so great, that only "naive and childlike" people can save our only planet from self-destruction.
Common sense man. Each stick has two ends.
You shouldn't speak badly of murder before you've tried it.
90% of people in here are younger than me.
Older folks are Hirlok, Gnjus, Armpit, chadz, Prpavi, Karasu, dunno who else. Probably few Americans as well but that's it.
Edit: Smoothrich looks hella old but he's just rough as fuck.
Edit: Smoothrich looks hella old but he's just rough as fuck.
90% of people in here are younger than me.
Older folks are Hirlok, Gnjus, Armpit, chadz, Prpavi, Karasu, dunno who else. Probably few Americans as well but that's it.
I'm fairly sure I've seen him speaking Turkish on server.Hallucination level is too damn high in this, once again.
Yes, but he's not new and you don't know if he's young, thus my comment, but doesn't matter anyway :Dppl thinks that they're older than rest of the world when they hit 25, just let them.
@DKNhz, you seem to speak from a position of a very black/white impression of history. Things in the real world are a lot more complicated, go back far longer and is a lot more inclusive than a few bad actors. Coming from a Turk it is particularly hysterical, the history of the Ottoman empire is one of aggressive imperialism, especially within the Muslim world.I was born in Kelheim. Back in my days, it was located in Germany.
#notallmuslims
#religionofpeace
#refugeeswelcome
#lovenothate
If I lived in EU I would just convert to Islam and get it over with. Most of you are related to mongols/huns anyways.
One can consider the Catholic church as poisonous...
One can consider the Catholic church as poisonous...Water can be poisonous...
I'm almost the same age as you, Angantyr, Harpage and Grandmom are older than you, I think?
Edit: What's with Xant becoming increasingly homosexual and locking his own threads?visitors can't see pics , please register or login
One can consider the Catholic church as poisonous...Not as poisonous as an barbaric ideology which encourages pedophilia and mass murder, the Church had its time, especially with that pussy pope in power.
Be sure to direct us to the many references in the Quran wich encourages pedophilia and mass murder :lol:
Islam needs be reformed because it still has bits of barbarianism inside, not because its sole message is actively encouraging barbarianism. Else even the moderates would be terrorists.
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"
Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority."
Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."
Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home).Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward"
Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."
Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion is all for Allah"
Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."
Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."
Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."
Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."
Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people."
Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant."
Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"
Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."
Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them"
Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination."
Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."
Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."
Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."
Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"
Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.
Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."
Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who disbelieve follow falsehood, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord... So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)... If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost."
Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"
Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom."
Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. This verse tells Muslims that there are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' to describe Hell in over 25 other verses including 65:10, 40:46 and 50:26..
Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His cause". This is followed by (61:9), which defines the cause: "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."
Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of'Adn- Eternity ['Adn(Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success."
Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."
___________________________________________________
Hadith and Sira
Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)."
Bukhari (52:65) - The Prophet said, 'He who fights that Allah's Word, Islam, should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause.'
Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'
Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)
Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious
Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah"
Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."
Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."
Bukhari (52:73) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords'."
Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."
Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."
Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"
Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite.'"
Muslim (19:4294) - "When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him... He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war... When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them."
Muslim (31:5917) - "Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: 'Allah's Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people?' Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: 'Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger'."
Muslim (31:5918) - "I will fight them until they are like us." Ali's reply to Muhammad, after receiving clarification that the pretext for attack Khaibar was to convert the people (see above verse).
Bukhari 1:35 "The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah’s cause and nothing compels him do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty ( if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise ( if he is killed)."
Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." (Ashraf was a poet who insulted Muhammad.)
Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us"
Tabari 17:187 "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and seizing properties.' And they returned to their former religion." Christians converting to Islam, and then saw the violence these muslims commited.
Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 484: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”
Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah."
Saifur Rahman, The Sealed Nectar p.227-228 - "Embrace Islam... If you two accept Islam, you will remain in command of your country; but if your refuse my Call, you’ve got to remember that all of your possessions are perishable. My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship."
___________________________________________________________________________________________
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SUCH
A
PEACEFUL
RELIGION
Can you trim it down to pedophilia and mass murder pls
YEAH WELL 2000 YEARS AGO CRUSADERS KILLED PEOPLE SO CHRISTIANITY IS EVIL TOO!
Just before that, Islam Conquered Spain, and in 8th century Islam was defeated in Poitiers, France.
Also, don't forget that Islam was trying to conquer Viena atleast 3 times, all 3 failed, but those are prolly not importante things happend in history.
Just blaime only the Christians during the Crusades.
Seems finally the intellectual party people arrived in the thread... phew, was already afraid it would stay as boring as before!
Intelligence Squared debate with Zeba Khan, Maajid Nawaz, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Douglas Murray. I can recommend also watching for other interesting Intelligence Squared debates on the channel, they cover a variety of topics and are usually of pretty high quality.
Christopher Hichens and Tariq Ramadan debate.
Seems finally the intellectual party people arrived in the thread... phew, was already afraid it would stay as boring as before!
I was born in Kelheim. Back in my days, it was located in Germany.A mouse isn't a horse just because it's born in a stable :wink:
Very good debate. So far I've only watched the first one. I must say that I started out against the motion that Islam is a religion of peace and still had that opinion at the conclusion.I agree. Douglas Murray in particular is a good speaker. And Majeed Nawaz has done some good work, and has just published a new book with Sam Harris 'Islam and the future of tolerance'.
You should if you're discussing free will without defining it. If you're not defining it, then common sense dictates you're using the definition that's in all the dictionaries. It's like if I was talking about which dog is the best dog when discussing my favorite wine, and then saying I don't care what the dictionary claims a dog is. You can use the word "dog" when talking about wines for all I care, but you'll have to define it first or I'm going to think you're talking about dogs, since you're using the English language to communicate.
My whole point is that however you happen to define it (rigorously, i.e. not in your typical dictionary), you're going to have problems with that definition, rendering the word ultimately useless.No, you're not. See the quote from Yudkowsky.
A mouse isn't a horse just because it's born in a stable :wink:
That's always true for they re 2 different species; however in considering someone turkish or german the place where you're born, the culture that you absorb, the people you live and grow with, they can mold your nationality, regardless of your race.Race = species
A mouse isn't a horse just because it's born in a stable :wink:You're trying too hard, sorry for hurting your feelings poor little guy but i'm not a Turk :cry:
That's always true for they re 2 different species; however in considering someone turkish or german the place where you're born, the culture that you absorb, the people you live and grow with, they can mold your nationality, regardless of your race.They're not different species, two different species can't reprocude.
Race = speciesNo, it's not. Different races can produce offspring.
Race = species
They're not different species, two different species can't reprocude.
A mouse isn't a horse just because it's born in a stable :wink:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_%28biology%29
This whole thing is especially a mess when you come from germany. Here race is only used when you speak of race-theories from the early 20th century, on every other occasion you speak of ethnicity.
No, it's not. Different races can produce offspring.They literally can.
NoYes
Race = species
Here’s What a Man Who Studied Every Suicide Attack in the World Says About ISIS’ Motives
http://www.thenation.com/article/heres-what-a-man-who-studied-every-suicide-attack-in-the-world-says-about-isiss-motives/ (http://www.thenation.com/article/heres-what-a-man-who-studied-every-suicide-attack-in-the-world-says-about-isiss-motives/)
" What 95 percent of all suicide attacks have in common, since 1980, is not religion, but a specific strategic motivation to respond to a military intervention, often specifically a military occupation, of territory that the terrorists view as their homeland or prize greatly."
As University of Michigan historian Juan Cole put it after the Charlie Hebdo attacks, “The problem for a terrorist group like Al Qaeda is that its recruitment pool is Muslims, but most Muslims are not interested in terrorism. Most Muslims are not even interested in politics, much less political Islam.” In Cole’s formulation, if violent Islamic fundamentalists “can get non-Muslim French to be beastly to ethnic Muslims on the grounds that they are Muslims, it can start creating a common political identity around grievance against discrimination.”
Pulled this one in ninth grade once when i had a small argument with my teacher, she went quiet and said "hmm" and then went to start the class. Funny but not sure the argument can be applied to humans.
It can be.
A nigerian in Germany shouldn't even be closely allowed to call himself german just because he got a passport from Caliph Merkel.
Nor should he call himself german just because he was born here, yet he was born to non-european parents.
Humans are a species.Races = ethnicities
Then there are the races: Caucasoid, black in spanishid, Mongoloid, etc...
Then different ethnicities: Slavic, Germanic, Latin, Nigerian, Han, etc...
To be honest, I don't give a fuck about religion.
I don't give a fuck what color theyre skin is
But I give a fuck when people that we welcomed to live between us don't respect oure western values, don't respect the equality between women and men, don't respect the culture and values. I give a fuck when some of these morons go to a swimmingpool, and start to bother or touch young, or even female children, because they where a badingsuite.
Those Guy's that attacked mine country last week, where Guy's that growned up in EU, so you should think that they respect us.
Until a few months ago, when we as European said to the politicians that something is not right in Brussels, we where called racist, facist and Islamofobique. And right now, these points are coming out.
Its not only thanks to Muti Merkel we have this problem, but its also thanks to oure politicians that turned a blind eye during the last decade.
I'm sorry, but for now I am furious, because according the latest report, If Abdeslam was not arrested, the deathcount was prolly higher, there where plans to act like in Paris, a shootout in Brussels, and the explossions, more death. And prolly all this would be done on Eastern, on the moment when people are going away.
I am furious that we saw the signs years ago, and nothing was done, because the politicians where more busy for counting theyre votes for the next elections. Its mutch easyer to tell to the population that they are racist, or that we kept stuppid.
You know that normal people, when Abdeslam was arrested, has to see movies on the social media, that the moslimyounght was trowing rocks and empty bottles to the police and journalist, when they were trying to do theyre job. On the National TV, those things are still taboe.
Thats the situation in mine country.
no idea what this thread is aboutTranslation: "hehe aren't i cute and wacky i hope everyone will think i'm funny and give me upvotes"
uhhh
gas the jews? kill all muslims?
am i doing it right guys?
Races = ethnicities
WAKE UP SHEEP
I hope you're shitposting, lad.visitors can't see pics , please register or login
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RaceYou know someone has lost the argument when they have to bring dictionary definitions into it.
Pronunciation: /reɪs/
Noun
Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics
Ethnicity
Pronunciation: /ɛθˈnɪsɪti/
Noun
The fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition
You know someone has lost the argument when they have to bring dictionary definitions into it.
You know someone has lost the argument when they have to bring dictionary definitions into it.
It's too easy with these newmy old friends.
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It's too easy with these newmy old friends.
56 christians, mostly women and children killed by Muslims today in Pakistan, religion of peace and tolerance is at it again.
Is that your argument for real ? Not surprised, you had nothing to say. They have magnificent places, stunning architecture. You should visit too.
You know someone has lost the argument when they have to bring dictionary definitions into it.Yes, we all know.
What matters isnt who won or lost, but if we learnt something from the experience!
They shouldn't have been in Pakistan touting their white people religion.These christians were there before the Abassid Caliphate rushed in.
What matters isnt who won or lost, but if we learnt something from the experience!
Yes, we all know.(click to show/hide)
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But in the previous case, if it was a question, not an argument, then there was no argument to lose and your, nomen omen, argument is invalid... Am I right?They didn't realize I was making fun of Butan's reply to that post of mine. And so on. All of the subtle subtleties are wasted on these peons.
He was just making fun of me guys, he didnt lose the argument at all.haha xD
Haha, that was funny Xant btw. You are really a joker! :D
haha xDroflmao
Translation: "hehe aren't i cute and wacky i hope everyone will think i'm funny and give me upvotes"does that mean i did it right?
Tbh, this was already a cringe thread the moment dagu807 showed up.Wow, you sure showed me, lad. :^)
It's good thing you guys are basement dwellers playing cRPG all day and night. That serves as great protection against muslim crowd bombings. Dunno what I would do if anything happened to any of you munchkins.
does that mean i did it right?Depends, did you get upvotes?
Depends, did you get upvotes?
i got one upvote, that means it worked right?Depends, what was your target?
It's good thing you guys are basement dwellers playing cRPG all day and night. That serves as great protection against muslim crowd bombings. Dunno what I would do if anything happened to any of you munchkins.
Depends, what was your target?My target was 3,434,528,592,581,953,162,164 but I think I got close enough to be honest.
Forty-six Muslim countries combined contribute just 1 percent of the world’s scientific literature; Spain and India each contribute more of the world’s scientific literature than those countries taken together. In fact, although Spain is hardly an intellectual superpower, it translates more books in a single year than the entire Arab world has in the past thousand years.
http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science
The majority of scientific and mathematical advancements from Islamic countries in the past mainly came from non-Muslim Greeks and Indians living there.
Forty-six Muslim countries combined contribute just 1 percent of the world’s scientific literature; Spain and India each contribute more of the world’s scientific literature than those countries taken together. In fact, although Spain is hardly an intellectual superpower, it translates more books in a single year than the entire Arab world has in the past thousand years.
http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science
Forty-six Muslim countries combined contribute just 1 percent of the world’s scientific literature; Spain and India each contribute more of the world’s scientific literature than those countries taken together. In fact, although Spain is hardly an intellectual superpower, it translates more books in a single year than the entire Arab world has in the past thousand years.
http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science
Forty-six Muslim countries combined contribute just 1 percent of the world’s scientific literature; Spain and India each contribute more of the world’s scientific literature than those countries taken together. In fact, although Spain is hardly an intellectual superpower, it translates more books in a single year than the entire Arab world has in the past thousand years.
http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science
They didn't need to translate because those works were already in Arabic, and for some which needs to be translated, they did the translation from Greek to Arabic. While Europe was molesting boys in churches, Mid East was working on astrology, math and geography. They were 10x advanced than we were. Today is the exact opposite. Grandsons of al-Khwarizmi are fucking goats now.
Come on Grytviken, you hate the bastards so hard you deny the muslim world golden age?
The Muslim golden age was started by Assyrian Christians who translated Greek and Indian works into Syriac and later into Arabic, not Muslims, all of the Abassid caliphate physicians were Assyrian Christians, not Muslims. They were responsible for the Muslim golden age while forced to live as second class citizens and eventually were driven close to extinction from centuries of persecution and genocide.They also showed the Arabs how to do math, philosophy and science. For their troubles, they were persecuted and treated as dhimmi.
They also showed the Arabs how to do math, philosophy and science. For their troubles, they were persecuted and treated as dhimmi.
The overwhelming majority of these scholars, physicians, scientists and philosophers were Assyrian, Christians living in the middle-east who in the fourth, fifth, and sixth centuries began a systematic translation of Greek knowledge into Assyrian. The fundamental architectural breakthrough of using a parabolic shape instead of a spherical shape for these structures was made by the Assyrians more 1300 years earlier than Islam, these original architectural formulas and styles came from India. The majority of this knowledge and works were also passed back to Byzantium. As the Assyrians were persecuted and driven to extinction by Muslims the scientific progression left with them.
EDIT: I re-read your post "....Spain is hardly an intellectual superpower..." Hey Fuck You Buddy XD
The Muslim golden age was started by Assyrian Christians who translated Greek and Indian works into Syriac and later into Arabic, not Muslims, all of the Abassid caliphate physicians were Assyrian Christians, not Muslims. They were responsible for the Muslim golden age while forced to live as second class citizens and eventually were driven close to extinction from centuries of persecution and genocide. Even the Moors had a connection to the Assyrians, many of the Moorish upper class were from the Syrian landed elite who took these works and ideas back to Spain with them.You got the whole thing wrong, maybe because you read it wrong. Did i say muslims did the work ? Mid East and muslims are different things, isn't it ? One is geographical position and the other is religion. Scholars from various parts of the world with different cultural backgrounds were mandated to gather and translate all of the world's classical knowledge into Arabic. Those scholars didn't agreed on whatsapp group to gather all together in Mid East to do science. They were gathered, supported, payed by muslim Arabs.
Those beautiful "Arabic" mosque domes you see would not exist if it were not for these " Christian child molestors " as dknz calls them, :lol: which are suspiciously very similar to the Byzantine style domes you also see.EUROPE was in the dark i said, not the christian population in the whole world. Reading problems are bad, you should do that carefully.
You think that playing cRPG in first person isn't nausea inducing. Rest of us disagree.
Well he's nationalist who believes that his little shitty country is best thing since sliced bread, take that into consideration.
You got the whole thing wrong, maybe because you read it wrong. Did i say muslims did the work ? Mid East and muslims are different things, isn't it ? One is geographical position and the other is religion. Scholars from various parts of the world with different cultural backgrounds were mandated to gather and translate all of the world's classical knowledge into Arabic. Those scholars didn't agreed on whatsapp group to gather all together in Mid East to do science. They were gathered, supported, payed by muslim Arabs.Except it wasn't Arabs doing the translating, it was Assyrians.
Greek, Roman, Persian, Indian, Chinese, Phoenician works were translated. Scientific language was Arabic throughout the centuries. Those works might have been lost without Arabs. Deny it or not Mid East was 10x advanced than Europe between 8th century to the 13th century.
https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Denmark
If I was nationalist, I would link to page describing "mine" country but I'm not. Taking pride in "witty" and "edgy" writing of some lonely, angry individual. And like to call it a country where I'm currently taking residence in. Hopefully it won't be the one where they'll bury me. Sea or empty space are much better choices imho.
Happiness as product of "good life" is superficial bullshit and will come to an end the moment material goods are taken from you. It is same brand of happiness consumerism brings, like buying new iPhone or brand new pair of designer jeans. It is basically a fix, lasts temporarily and leaves you urging for more. Fucks you up in the end.
I tend to value spiritual side of life more than physical because latter doesn't last long and comes at limited quantities that cannot be renewed. If you're obsessing over physical aspect, then your happiness will last for period when you're in your prime which is less than half of your lifespan. Rest of your life will be miserable, drowned in alcohol or drugs in attempt to forget that your prime passed. Older cultures than ours, those at far east know that very well and are governing their lives according to those facts of life.
I don't live in a rich, economically prosperous country with great welfare system and high average wages. I am unable to buy latest iPhone, PC, gaming console, 4K LCDTV, designer clothes, rent expensive flat or buy brand new German car. But you know what, unlike most of the people surrounding me, not having those goods in my possession that doesn't make me unhappy. I simply feel no need for any of those things as must-have ingredients of my so called modern life. What makes me unhappy are people I'm surrounded with, shallow starved out demons who want something superficial they don't have and are willing to harm other people in their quest for personal materialistic goods which serve no good purpose to most of them because their chronic lack of education and knowledge. That is what sucks about poor countries. Human nature sucks, not lack of goods they produce (objectively speaking it is all crap). But human nature sucks everywhere, it is just concealed under layers of short lasting mechanisms that bring temporary pleasure that way averting true intentions of most members of our species. What I value the most are things most of us take for grant and repeatedly destroy. Things that can regenerate but not under attacks of so many viruses we call humans.
You got the whole thing wrong, maybe because you read it wrong. Did i say muslims did the work ? Mid East and muslims are different things, isn't it ? One is geographical position and the other is religion. Scholars from various parts of the world with different cultural backgrounds were mandated to gather and translate all of the world's classical knowledge into Arabic. Those scholars didn't agreed on whatsapp group to gather all together in Mid East to do science. They were gathered, supported, payed by muslim Arabs.
Greek, Roman, Persian, Indian, Chinese, Phoenician works were translated. Scientific language was Arabic throughout the centuries. Those works might have been lost without Arabs. Deny it or not Mid East was 10x advanced than Europe between 8th century to the 13th century.
EUROPE was in the dark i said, not the christian population in the whole world. Reading problems are bad, you should do that carefully.
What's the connection between christians doing science in Mid East and christians in the dark in Europe. Different things as i stated above.
This is something like denying the contribution of USA for today's science just because the ppl who do science there is not American but ppl from different parts of the world with different religions.
The Muslim golden age was started by Assyrian Christians who translated Greek and Indian works into Syriac and later into Arabic, not Muslims, all of the Abassid caliphate physicians were Assyrian Christians, not Muslims. They were responsible for the Muslim golden age while forced to live as second class citizens and eventually were driven close to extinction from centuries of persecution and genocide. Even the Moors had a connection to the Assyrians, many of the Moorish upper class were from the Syrian landed elite who took these works and ideas back to Spain with them.
[...]Kinda off-topic but out of experience on several occasions I know that at least for my profession, America is a bit of a backwater developing world :D
This is something like denying the contribution of USA for today's science just because the ppl who do science there is not American but ppl from different parts of the world with different religions.
@Grytviken
Can you list us some famous "Assyrian Christian Scientists" who invented/discovered anything relevant from this era?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunayn_ibn_Ishaq
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masawaiyh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bukhtishu
Good list. Here are the muslims;
Astronomers(click to show/hide)
Biologists, neuroscientists, and psychologists(click to show/hide)
Chemists / Alchemists(click to show/hide)
Geographers and earth scientists(click to show/hide)
Mathematicians(click to show/hide)
Physicists and engineers(click to show/hide)
They are all major figures and made a significant contribution to the science. We can triple that list if we just add non-major scholars. And yes, they all lived in the islamic golden age.
There's absolutely no evidence that shows that the Mid-East was more advanced than Europe before the 13th century, let alone 10x.Wow. That's the example of dangerous extremism i was talking about few pages ago. Hate makes ppl deny the facts.
When searching in the Middle East and Cordoba for archaeological evidence of this luxurious "golden age" what they found was extremely disappointing and supports none of the sort, and in fact the total opposite, it seemed to be a mostly impoverished civilization. The lack of Muslim archaeology from before the tenth and eleventh centuries compared to the MILLIONS of archaeological finds from the Roman Empire shows that this "Golden Age" is probably very much exaggerated.So they were looking wrong place if they were looking below ground to find science. They were and still are all in the libraries.
Just because a scholar is studying or working in some secluded part of an Empire does not make an entire civilization more advanced or inferior than anotherIt does make it more advanced. Wtf is that entire civilization bullshit. We were talking about the years between 700-1300. What did you expect, education rate of today's Norway ?
it really has no bearing on mainstream society unless those ideas and works can actually be put to practical use. The Ottoman Turks soundly defeated both the Arabs and Persians, the Golden boys themselves who were still using bows and arrows in the 16th century. This did not spark any kind of extended Islamic Golden age despite all of those flourishing centers of advanced civilization they must have acquired. In fact I think they were quite disappointed at the sorry state of their new possessions and the backwardness of these areas compared to Anatolia.Islamic golden age ended in the 13th century.
Much like today, 1000 years ago Muslims were constantly warring and there was never any room for any significant leap in technology to be made, the Arabs were fighting the Persians, and the Turks were fighting them both, and their experience having fought wars against the more technologically advanced Europeans gave them an advantage and they won.1000 years ago christians were warring too. Dude, Turks defeated Arabs and Persians BEFORE they tried to rekt Europe. Mongols introduced into Europe gunpowder and its associated weaponry. Gunpowder arrived in the Middle East BEFORE Mongols, through India, from China.
The House of Wisdom which the largest Islamic center of learning at the time was modeled after the school of Nesibis (the world's first university) and the great medical academy at Gundeshapur, which were both founded by Assyrian Christians.Dude, really. What are you trying to achive, why trying so hard ? What the fuck does it change if it's founded by Assyrian christians, pagans, muslims or whatever. None of those change the fact. If you're not roleplaying a parrot, please stop.
Technologically advanced Europeans gave them an advantage ? That's a big lol, sorry. Turks were more advanced in military till mid-16th century.
Dude, really. What are you trying to achive, why trying so hard ? What the fuck does it change if it's founded by Assyrian christians, pagans, muslims or whatever. None of those change the fact. If you're not roleplaying a parrot, please stop.
Well he's nationalist who believes that his little shitty country is best thing since sliced bread, take that into consideration. But you should already be aware of it, since we're here for five years and pretty much everybody knows what others think.
The bombards used to attack Constantinople were forged by a Hungarian. The Ottomans invaded the Mamluk Sultante in 1516 using European style Arabesques and Artillery, while the Egyptians, Arabs and Persians still relied on mainly on bows and arrows. The Venetians and other Italian states were utilizing artillery and guns against the Ottomons since the 1400's.Yes, that's what make an empire more advanced, making ppl to do science in their lands, for them. to get the upper hand. Bombards being forged by a Hungarian doesn't make it a Hungarian weapon. Hungarians didn't have such bombards, nor Europeans. But Ottomans had it.
Just pointing out that the Islamic Golden Age is wildly exaggerated, they were just recycling work that was already done by others. There was nothing Islamic about this Golden Age that would probably have never taken place if it weren't for the Greeks and Assyrian Christians. this offends me as a Scientologist.Recycling or not, Europe was unaware %90 of the Greek and Roman works and had no idea about Persian, Indian and Chinese works until Arabs translated those into Arabic and made them accessible. All those works might have been lost without Arabs.
You're trying very hard at re-inventing history.No idea who you are talking to but prove me wrong, or prove him wrong. Bring it on.
No idea who you are talking to but prove me wrong, or prove him wrong. Bring it on.
Recycling or not, Europe was unaware %90 of the Greek and Roman works and had no idea about Persian, Indian and Chinese works until Arabs translated those into Arabic and made them accessible. All those works might have been lost without Arabs.
And calling people like Muhammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī, Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī, Jābir ibn Hayyān a recycler have to offend you more. You should go and live the rest of your life in woods with shame.
Not that I have traveled a lot, but I've been in a number of eu countries, and Denmark is definitely my favorite :) seriously, wouldn't change it for any other in the world. Norway is cool too, and from what I've heard Switzerland is a good place, though I never been there...Yes, Iceland, Finland, Holland, Norway, Sweden (as of yet despite the regressive dark age it has entered), Switzerland, Denmark are continuous top-scorers in human development index and UN lists over countries that are the most egalitarian, most socially mobile, has the freest press, least corruption, least crime, healthiest best educated populations, most trust in government and each other, most ecological etc.
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Well he's nationalist who believes that his little shitty country is best thing since sliced bread, take that into consideration. But you should already be aware of it, since we're here for five years and pretty much everybody knows what others think.Few of the things I mention above are based only on material wealth.
You're trying very hard at re-inventing history.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35918282
Alexander did literally nothing useful, romans surely didn't build anything from what he did
Alexander did literally nothing useful, romans surely didn't build anything from what he did
I think that's what philip did, he was a charismatic and outstanding general, but just by looking at what happened to his "empire" soon as he died you can understand how great he was; the east was still shit and the west was as wealthy as it has always been before, same for egypt. Real greeks did much better than him. His legacy was utter shit tbh
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This is Tibes, his parents were unaware of birth control so he was born.
visitors can't see pics , please register or loginBy the same logic Warlord's girlfriend is not German since she is dark skinned.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
By the same logic Warlord's girlfriend is not German since she is dark skinned.
Good thing he gave a +1. Fucking traitor to his country, is what he is!
I never said she's not german. I exactly said: 'she is "half - and half" ', because that's what she is by her very own words. She has a german-passport, while most of her (older) family members from the portuguese side only have a portuguese-passport, because they weren't born here, obviously.:lol:
She sees herself as much as German as Portuguese, loving both countries equally. In doubt she would always choose Germany, because well, except for landscape, people and weather, everything else (jobs, education, infrastructure, health-care etc.) is better here, again, obviously.
Also, I don't get what anything I said has anything to do with upvoting Tibes post?
If Achmed loves swedens culture and people, has a job, pays taxes and obeys the law, he can call himself what the fuck he want, even swede, and everything is fine.
Of course he stays of arab origin and is not ethnically swede, expect for when his father Ali was an arab and his mother freja a swede, then he is ethnically both.
It really isn't that hard to understand that people always are descendants of one ethnos, and when they have parents from 2 different ethnic groups, they are, surprise, descendants of 2 ethnic groups!
And it's not racist to say that, even if dumb people like Molly keep repeating it over and over again.
:lol:
There is ample evidence that the countries that Alexander the Great conquered have assimilated a lot of things from them, which shaped their future greatly. Sure, he didnt fertilize deserts in the middle east or taught anyone to wrestle like a true greek, but it completely changed the history of the lands.
Oh wow, what a ingenious answer. You're really as retarded as you look like.Nub, it's a trap. You've been trolled. Y U really think that Molly gives a shit about ones ethnicity ?
Tho i mostly agree with you warlord the thing is the ethnical background isn't enough to not consider someone of certain nationality; i mean what about an american, a canadian, an australian or an argentinian? Someone would say they have no identity at all if you base your idea of nationality on ethnicity (race), or that their identity has been literally raped. But they have an identity, a clear one each one of them (ironically) and that's because it's mostly based on culture, not skin tone.
Could you name any of those land?
EU isnt a fucking empire with vassalstates.