cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Corsair831 on May 21, 2014, 07:11:21 pm

Title: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Corsair831 on May 21, 2014, 07:11:21 pm
i used to get ~~ 1/3 of my kills playing 1h with the rightswing

it's honestly dropped to 1/20th at most

please for the love of god can we just have the old animation back

thanks, Corsair
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Cicero on May 21, 2014, 07:39:46 pm
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Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Rebelyell on May 21, 2014, 07:41:20 pm
I like old one way more to be honest
I like to see it back or maybe give us secondary mode 2ith difrent animations so we will ahve all of them?
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Macropus on May 21, 2014, 07:59:06 pm
You can get it back, Corsair. Get on a horse.  :)
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Prpavi on May 21, 2014, 08:28:45 pm
Oh I love this ones,

wait for it.....

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Lezard on May 21, 2014, 08:33:53 pm
I like the new one way more. I actually feel comfortable using right swing now, more variation up close and I'm still able to play the reach game. New right swing feels a lot smoother compaired to the clumsy old right swing.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Herezy92 on May 21, 2014, 09:04:11 pm
If you hate the current animation, you guys have to wait.
As i already told you corsair, Tydeus is working on the animation, he already improved it a lot, and it's possible to download it for your own or just wait next patch.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Nehvar on May 21, 2014, 09:09:00 pm
The alternate "new" 1h rightswing animation that Tydeus linked in the other thread is much better.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Corsair831 on May 22, 2014, 12:54:45 am
it's not about the animation, i couldn't care less how it looks, it's the fact that it's significantly shorter than the old one, and that it hits way too early in the animation
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: the real god emperor on May 22, 2014, 01:05:09 am
Actually new animation has many advantages which re not in the old one;
-You wont glance on someone while doing left footwork.
-You can spam from right side.
-You can hit an enemy's head if you even don't aim at head.
-It won't stuck in close quarters.

Normally shielder is expected to hit from overhead or left in close quarters, but now you can use stab and right swing too which makes shielder OP in close quarters.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Corsair831 on May 22, 2014, 01:11:23 am
Actually new animation has many advantages which re not in the old one;
-You wont glance on someone while doing left footwork.
-You can spam from right side.
-You can hit an enemy's head if you even don't aim at head.
-It won't stuck in close quarters.

Normally shielder is expected to hit from overhead or left in close quarters, but now you can use stab and right swing too which makes shielder OP in close quarters.

but it DOES suck in close quarters, it's like an incredibly gimped left swing, but with half the speed and is much easier to spot

it was so much more useful actually having the ability to target switch

Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: San on May 22, 2014, 01:16:18 am
it's not about the animation, i couldn't care less how it looks, it's the fact that it's significantly shorter than the old one, and that it hits way too early in the animation

Did you test the old and new animations' reach compared to the other animations? When I tried to test, I didn't see a significant difference in max range and couldn't tell if it was even changed at all. Right swing was slightly shorter than stab or ~ the maximum effective stab reach before it begins to glance and noticeably longer than the overhead for both animations. I was only able to test against horses, though. Not the best method, but you should try testing yourself in some way in isolated cases outside of combat.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Corsair831 on May 22, 2014, 01:29:49 am
Did you test the old and new animations' reach compared to the other animations? When I tried to test, I didn't see a significant difference in max range and couldn't tell if it was even changed at all. Right swing was slightly shorter than stab or ~ the maximum effective stab reach before it begins to glance and noticeably longer than the overhead for both animations. I was only able to test against horses, though. Not the best method, but you should try testing yourself in some way in isolated cases outside of combat.

i've played crpg for ~~ 3000 hours, 90% of which has been with 95 reach 1h swords
prior to that, i played ~~ 3000 hours of native, within which i played infantry, using primarily 95 reach 1h swords

i know the reaches of the swords like i know the reach of my fingers, and i can tell you it's ---definitely--- shorter
i'm releasing the swing to get the maximum range which i know would have hit with the old animation, and they're missing every damn time

i'd imagine for a lot of the guys on crpg, who use incredibly big swords (nordic champion sword, spathion, arabian cavalry sword etc etc), don't play for the very limit of their reach, and probably try and hit quite comfortably within that reach. seeing as i use a medium length sword however, and i'm very practiced at this, i always try and play for the very edge of the reach of the sword. for the majority of guys who do not try and play for the edge of the reach, and try and hit comfortably within the sword's range, they're not going to notice the difference in range, because they were never using it anyway.

but for those of us to whom that extra 3 or 4 points of reach was the difference between kills and no kills, this 1h animation change is absolutely devestating.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: San on May 22, 2014, 01:37:15 am
You could at least try, otherwise it's just a clash of experiences where of course it'll be difficult to come to an agreement.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Rico on May 22, 2014, 01:48:36 am
I like the new rightswing because it tends to be blocked less often than the old animation. Maybe enemies are not used to it, maybe it looks so strange that they confuse it with another attack direction, or they underestimate the speed, I dunno. But in a way, this feels like a buff to onehanded, without totally breaking balance. And I think this buff was needed, because once you know how to control your block direction, it is much much much much much much much much much easier to get kills with twohanders or polearms, unless you have a really gay onehanded build that only combines OP stuff such as loomed heavy armor, super-easily armor penetrating weapons and high level.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: HarunYahya on May 22, 2014, 01:55:54 am
ADAPT NUB !  :twisted:
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Corsair831 on May 22, 2014, 02:12:14 am
I like the new rightswing because it tends to be blocked less often than the old animation. Maybe enemies are not used to it, maybe it looks so strange that they confuse it with another attack direction, or they underestimate the speed, I dunno. But in a way, this feels like a buff to onehanded, without totally breaking balance. And I think this buff was needed, because once you know how to control your block direction, it is much much much much much much much much much easier to get kills with twohanders or polearms, unless you have a really gay onehanded build that only combines OP stuff such as loomed heavy armor, super-easily armor penetrating weapons and high level.

who are you fighting against that i am not?!

perhaps it is a case of how we use the rightswing; before the change, i would use it as a 'surprise attack' of sorts (with a huge amount of success), as in when someone was not expecting it i would attempt to out-range them with a right swing, or when i was fighting multiple opponents i would use a right swing (because of it's long reach) to switch to another target, or as a fast way to hit someone in the back.

the new right swing, whilst it may be slightly better at hitting people to the face than the old one was, is absolutely useless at target switching and playing for range as i described above. it's like we've had our ability to target switch and out-range removed, in order to give us a 3rd attack which is good to spam in melee, which was both completely unnecessary and has had the downside of nerfing our ability to target switch and outrange, as well as actually not being very good to spam in close melee.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Artyem on May 22, 2014, 02:23:08 am
The only thing I like about the new swing is that it hits the head much easier than the old one.  This is really nice against all of the two hand heroes who go without a helmet. Nothing more satisfying than one hitting a guy in full plate because he decided to not wear his helmet.

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Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Rhaelys on May 22, 2014, 05:08:52 am
The only thing I like about the new swing is that it hits the head much easier than the old one.  This is really nice against all of the two hand heroes who go without a helmet. Nothing more satisfying than one hitting a guy in full plate because he decided to not wear his helmet.

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If a person isn't wearing a helmet then they aren't wearing full plate.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Macropus on May 22, 2014, 05:22:49 am
i'd imagine for a lot of the guys on crpg, who use incredibly big swords (nordic champion sword, spathion, arabian cavalry sword etc etc), don't play for the very limit of their reach, and probably try and hit quite comfortably within that reach. seeing as i use a medium length sword however, and i'm very practiced at this, i always try and play for the very edge of the reach of the sword. for the majority of guys who do not try and play for the edge of the reach, and try and hit comfortably within the sword's range, they're not going to notice the difference in range, because they were never using it anyway.
lol

Corsair, from what I've seen the maximum reach of the rightswing is the same as before, so how about adjusting your aim a bit to use it.
Although I'm just another "incredibly big sword" user, so what do I know about reach, I never got to use it to the full extent unlike 95 masterrace...   :lol:
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Kafein on May 22, 2014, 09:05:33 am
People using 64 length picks must be gods, by that standard.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Gravoth_iii on May 22, 2014, 09:17:31 am
(click to show/hide)

Play another 3k hours with this right swing, only then can i trust that you have made enough testings.

I felt the swing way better than the old one. Maybe it is slightly shorter (i couldnt notice, i still do crazy range hits with it) but if so then it makes up for that with more speed, and nonglancing close quarters. It kinda feels like a left swing but longer to me.


(click to show/hide)

Its better for target switching since its faster, still long and doesnt get stuck on shit. And not being good to spam is boollsheet, i could spam that shit way more than the old animation. And with good range compared to left swing it can be spammed in more situations.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Herezy92 on May 22, 2014, 10:19:27 am
I don't understand your point Corsair.

Tydeus made the changes , and he clearly explained that the new animation isn't shorter and has the same range than the old one.

I agree it's feel different, but if the own developper says it has the same reach, i think we can trust him.


FrenchKiss

Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Sniger on May 22, 2014, 11:11:25 am
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Oh I love this ones,

wait for it.....

(click to show/hide)

I like the new one way more. I actually feel comfortable using right swing now, more variation up close and I'm still able to play the reach game. New right swing feels a lot smoother compaired to the clumsy old right swing.

Actually new animation has many advantages which re not in the old one;
-You wont glance on someone while doing left footwork.
-You can spam from right side.
-You can hit an enemy's head if you even don't aim at head.
-It won't stuck in close quarters.

Normally shielder is expected to hit from overhead or left in close quarters, but now you can use stab and right swing too which makes shielder OP in close quarters.

ADAPT NUB !  :twisted:


funny, i thought all these guys were 2h/cav/polearm. you play 1h once in a while on a STF or alt... why are you commenting when you aint playing 1h? lol
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Sniger on May 22, 2014, 11:13:19 am
but you wont get it back. devs and community is biased and lobbying.

:)
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Sniger on May 22, 2014, 11:13:48 am
I don't understand your point Corsair.

Tydeus made the changes , and he clearly explained that the new animation isn't shorter and has the same range than the old one.

I agree it's feel different, but if the own developper says it has the same reach, i think we can trust him.


FrenchKiss

you dont need to understand anything. go play your polearm, shu
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Corsair831 on May 22, 2014, 11:40:27 am
The new swing is definitely a lot shorter

as I've been trying to say, I play at the very furthest extent of my reach, using a mid reach sword. The reason most of these guys haven't noticed the difference is because they don't try and hit at the furthest point of the sword, but instead they take a very long 1h like an NCS, and they hit comfortably within it's reach, or they facespam with a steel pick or niuweidao, neither of which rely on reach control.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Gravoth_iii on May 22, 2014, 11:44:36 am
I used arabian guard sword and went for hits i thought i had no chance of reaching, but surprisingly did.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Teeth on May 22, 2014, 11:46:37 am
funny, i thought all these guys were 2h/cav/polearm. you play 1h once in a while on a STF or alt... why are you commenting when you aint playing 1h? lol
Many of us have played this game 3000+ hours, so even if some of us played the majority of our time as a certain class, many of us have still clocked in 500+ hours in a variety of classes, by playing on alts or having switched builds in the past. Now 500+ hours is a lot and easily enough to learn a class, so going with the 'I am always 1h so I know better than anyone else' argument is almost as big a load of bullshit as 'I use 95 reach swords and have vastly superior range control than people that use 102 length swords'.

Make sure your opponent is straight in front of you, angle your screen down a bit and boom, old rightswing reach.

Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Herezy92 on May 22, 2014, 11:54:20 am
The new swing is definitely a lot shorter

as I've been trying to say, I play at the very furthest extent of my reach, using a mid reach sword. The reason most of these guys haven't noticed the difference is because they don't try and hit at the furthest point of the sword, but instead they take a very long 1h like an NCS, and they hit comfortably within it's reach, or they facespam with a steel pick or niuweidao, neither of which rely on reach control.

If you insist in your point, the only thing i can say is :
Adapting is the key to survive.
Look at the old lolstab for 2handers.
Remember the stab with polearm.
Remember the stab with pike/long spear.
They all adapted, even if it's not as good at it was before.

The 1hand right swing changed (and not nerfed)
You have now new advantages, and you are free to use them.


FrenchKiss
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: darmaster on May 22, 2014, 11:54:47 am
this swing is not as long as the old one; if that is any good i don't know, i have to say i remember some 1h outreaching weapons that were definitely longer, which was bullshit i admit, but this swing is shorter.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Corsair831 on May 22, 2014, 12:00:12 pm
Many of us have played this game 3000+ hours, so even if some of us played the majority of our time as a certain class, many of us have still clocked in 500+ hours in a variety of classes, by playing on alts or having switched builds in the past. Now 500+ hours is a lot and easily enough to learn a class, so going with the 'I am always 1h so I know better than anyone else' argument is almost as big a load of bullshit as 'I use 95 reach swords and have vastly superior range control than people that use 102 length swords'.

Make sure your opponent is straight in front of you, angle your screen down a bit and boom, old rightswing reach.

yeah because as they say, "experience completely stops counting after the first 500 hours"

I've played 90% of my time on warband with    ---the same sword--- (95 reach 1h with shield)
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Kafein on May 22, 2014, 12:02:35 pm
I don't get this "can't target switch anymore" thing.

It's as if the right swing was the only attack you could target switch with. Furthermore, the new right swing makes it easier because it doesn't get stuck as much at awkward angles. If I can trust my experience, the first "downsides" of the new right swing is that it doesn't extend as much in the very early stages of the animation, hence decreasing your early reach (hmmm HRE play on words). However hitting that soon in the animation means you are outside the sweetspot, so it's very risky. All in all I prefer avoiding the possibility that those kinds of badly timed attacks connect. The second downside is height control. I think the new right swing doesn't allow as much control as the old one. All in all the right swing is now more reliable because a teammate/enemy/wall/cactus on your right side now has less chances of fucking you over, and that's a huge improvement.

Now Tydeus needs to fix 1h overheads getting stuck on people behind you and we're set. I would not mind if that shit was fixed on all weapons actually, but on 1h it really makes 0 sense. Stop fiddling with upkeep, nobody cares :?
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: darmaster on May 22, 2014, 12:03:01 pm
also i'm sorry to bring this here but why the2h stab hasn't been touched in years? i'm really happy to see attempts of improvement like the change made to 1h right swing, but on the hierarchy of needed change i think the ever lasting stab really needs a change; i've seen people standing on a superhuman anatomically incorrect position for more than 5 seconds, really that is bullshit. and some 2 h dare complaining about pike/longspear stabs.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: HarunYahya on May 22, 2014, 12:05:15 pm

funny, i thought all these guys were 2h/cav/polearm. you play 1h once in a while on a STF or alt... why are you commenting when you aint playing 1h? lol
I played 1h for 3 years fucker. Without a single QQ of backpedals,glances,chrusthrough bar maces or crushthrough morningstars, never cried. Still have a 1h alt still not cryin. So yeah, fuck your fail judgment. After 3 years of hardwork,leading charges and getting teamkilled by greedy maulersi I guess I earned my retirement at "relaxed S-key spam mode".

+ I've done tests about this swing, I was QQing at start "Ooooo they fucked up the rightswing like 1h does need another fucking nerf already"
Guess what? They didn't nerf a shit. The range is slightly shorter but that rightswing has retarded ghostreach since it's own existance so who gives a shit.
You guys fail at it because you fail to make your swing hit your target due to angle change, swing is not directly horizontal now, it's diagonal you have to adept.

Watch in Slow-mo, i was high while editing the video so i misspelt 2nd video as "Native swing" 2nd video is future right swing of cRPG which is also made by Tydeus and will be updated via following patch.








See motherfucker i, as "2h hero" care about 1h more than you do, now go cry and ask for mercy, maybe i'll forgive you.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Kafein on May 22, 2014, 12:05:52 pm
also i'm sorry to bring this here but why the2h stab hasn't been touched in years? i'm really happy to see attempts of improvement like the change made to 1h right swing, but on the hierarchy of needed change i think the ever lasting stab really needs a change; i've seen people standing on a superhuman anatomically incorrect position for more than 5 seconds, really that is bullshit. and some 2 h dare complaining about pike/longspear stabs.

It's more balanced than it was before but it still needs some tweaking, yes.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Joseph Porta on May 22, 2014, 12:07:27 pm
The old right swing was a joke and only useable in incredibly gay reach whoring.. I dig the new one, kudos to Tydeus tbh
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Joseph Porta on May 22, 2014, 12:08:33 pm
also i'm sorry to bring this here but why the2h stab hasn't been touched in years? i'm really happy to see attempts of improvement like the change made to 1h right swing, but on the hierarchy of needed change i think the ever lasting stab really needs a change; i've seen people standing on a superhuman anatomically incorrect position for more than 5 seconds, really that is bullshit. and some 2 h dare complaining about pike/longspear stabs.

Tbh, the 2h stab is pretty easy to chamber.. Easier then any other weapon
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Mr.K. on May 22, 2014, 12:11:01 pm
also i'm sorry to bring this here but why the2h stab hasn't been touched in years? i'm really happy to see attempts of improvement like the change made to 1h right swing, but on the hierarchy of needed change i think the ever lasting stab really needs a change; i've seen people standing on a superhuman anatomically incorrect position for more than 5 seconds, really that is bullshit. and some 2 h dare complaining about pike/longspear stabs.

It has been. It no longer does damage at the full extend of the animation unless you are wearing peasant armor and even then it deals close to zero damage. 2H stab is also the slowest attack in game and has a huge stun if you fail. Polearm stab is much faster and I can use my legs and an awlpike to outstab a lot of two-handers while dealing at least twice the damage. And it doesn't get stunned long enough to get hit. Some greatsword lolstabbers can be annoying, but still I don't see why people would still complain about 2H stab.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Cicero on May 22, 2014, 12:11:32 pm

funny, i thought all these guys were 2h/cav/polearm. you play 1h once in a while on a STF or alt... why are you commenting when you aint playing 1h? lol
i beg your pardon ; your grace

part of the problem is that when people have x1 and its open map, they log out and hop on a cav alt
with ranged cav: realism > gameplay
without ranged cav: realism < gameplay
i had x5 for 5 maps today on my archer. got valour 3 times. no im not very fast but then again i carry 2 quivers bodkins as well as a sword. i prefer to shoot enemy than dodge him though...  :twisted:
gameplay > realism
yes
1 LP = 400-500k gold = hours and hours of full (horse+self) plate battle for the lols. this without the x5 multiplier you most likely have due to being member of a stacking megaclan  :lol:
you just explained my gameplay here and im not cav :)
^

Mounted range is abormination and ignored
What do you want ? If your main 1h you can only give opinions about 1h ? How retarted are you ?
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: the real god emperor on May 22, 2014, 12:11:53 pm
I borrowed an ACS from armory today and tried it on foot , and from what I see , new right swing is really OP, I spammed people from right and never glanced even for once. Also it is unpredictable, no one believes that you can hit them from right with an ACS in a balcony...Also works with my Nordic War Sword too , I overwhelmingly spammed people on duel with my right swing, they couldn't even swing at me.
With the old right swing, most of the hits would glance if you re not facing the enemy, with the new swing , if someone posts a picture/video of me glancing with my right swing, I will pay 50k.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Mr.K. on May 22, 2014, 12:18:28 pm
I borrowed an ACS from armory today and tried it on foot , and from what I see , new right swing is really OP, I spammed people from right and never glanced even for once. Also it is unpredictable, no one believes that you can hit them from right with an ACS in a balcony...Also works with my Nordic War Sword too , I overwhelmingly spammed people on duel with my right swing, they couldn't even swing at me.
With the old right swing, most of the hits would glance if you re not facing the enemy, with the new swing , if someone posts a picture/video of me glancing with my right swing, I will pay 50k.

I have had the same experience, but haven't played 1H enough to call it OP yet. But it seems like it never glances, reaches maybe 30cm more than left swing and hits the head half the time.

Playing 2H hero is now a bit harder for me because when I run into a right swing, instead of glancing like it did before it takes half my HP :oops:
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Sniger on May 22, 2014, 12:23:04 pm
motherfucker

tl;dr
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Kafein on May 22, 2014, 12:23:24 pm
Playing 2H hero is now a bit harder for me because when I run into a right swing, instead of glancing like it did before it takes half my HP :oops:

Ho noes I heff to blokc    butt iam 2h amsterrrace ! unjustiec !
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Sniger on May 22, 2014, 12:24:42 pm
i beg your pardon ; your grace
What do you want ? If your main 1h you can only give opinions about 1h ? How retarted are you ?

my point is that i think its funny that pretty much the only ones commenting and downvoting is 2h or polearm players... sue me, hurry.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Corsair831 on May 22, 2014, 12:24:48 pm
please can someone understand before i die of frustration

the old right swing was not supposed to be used to hit someone in the face

if you were trying to use it for that you were frankly using it wrong. it was the slowest and longest reach swing (not stab), and it was supposed to be used for target switching (because of it having the WIDEST arc, and the longest range of any swing), and for surprise out-reaching (because again, of it's WIDE arc and it's LONG range).

if you were trying to use it to hit people to their faces you were using it wrong.

the new one is marginally better for hitting people to the face than the old one was. but the new one is significantly shorter, easier to see, and hits a lot earlier in the animation. these 3 factors mean it is basically useless for target switching, and out-ranging, as it is no longer the attack with the widest arc and longest range as described above.

because 1h players can no longer target switch and out-range effectively with medium length 1h weapons, my playstyle has been reduced to either doing nothing but spamming people in their face and hoping they're incredibly bad, or taking a stupidly long 1h like the nordic champion sword and out-reaching with that. if the big plan here was to remove what was a skill mechanic (out-reaching longer weapons with shorter weapons), and make it so everyone either has to facehug and spam, or take one of the ridiculously long weapons to have half a chance, then you've done a great job at that devs.

please for the love of god can we just have the old one back?  :(
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Joseph Porta on May 22, 2014, 12:28:23 pm
He new one hits like a truck at the beginning of the animation, much like 2h unbalanced does. Ive always found the 1h stab to be quite good for target switching aswell. 1h overheads have a nice reach aswell.

But, to be fair, I dont abuse the game mechanics to their limits, so I guess you have a harder* time adjusting to such a drastic change then me.


because 1h players can no longer target switch and out-range effectively with medium length 1h weapons,


Jesus christ
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Cicero on May 22, 2014, 12:28:41 pm
my point is that i think its funny that pretty much the only ones commenting and downvoting is 2h or polearm players... sue me, hurry.
Try to act normal asocial.

I showed you that u commented on other classes as well what now ?  Whats ur point ?
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Sniger on May 22, 2014, 12:28:52 pm
actually it took some practice to actually do headshot on purpose with a right-swing.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: HarunYahya on May 22, 2014, 12:28:59 pm
please can someone understand before i die of frustration

the old right swing was not supposed to be used to hit someone in the face

if you were trying to use it for that you were frankly using it wrong. it was the slowest and longest reach swing (not stab), and it was supposed to be used for target switching (because of it having the WIDEST arc, and the longest range of any swing), and for surprise out-reaching (because again, of it's WIDE arc and it's LONG range).

if you were trying to use it to hit people to their faces you were using it wrong.

the new one is marginally better for hitting people to the face than the old one was. but the new one is significantly shorter, easier to see, and hits a lot earlier in the animation. these 3 factors mean it is basically useless for target switching, and out-ranging, as it is no longer the attack with the widest arc and longest range as described above.

please for the love of god can we just have the old one back? :))
No.
Because fuck your bias, it is slightly shorter since it's a bit angled which doesn't even make a fucking change because 1h rightswing has +30cm ghostreach any fucking way.
Now we get a harder to notice,unexpected,nonglancing useful long range swing why the fuck are you hating it ?
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Kafein on May 22, 2014, 12:30:23 pm
my point is that i think its funny that pretty much the only ones commenting and downvoting is 2h or polearm players... sue me, hurry.

Well no, I'm 1h first and I prefer the new animation. I may not have dozens of hours of playtime with it yet, but nothing of note seems bad about it.

Besides, most of those commenting are 2h or polearm because there are already few 1h players left, and they aren't really well represented on the forums either, with the likes of you and melcke.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Sniger on May 22, 2014, 12:32:04 pm
Try to act normal asocial.

I showed you that u commented on other classes as well what now ?  Whats ur point ?

didnt comment on them because i felt the change would make it easyer for them to kill me, i commented because i thought something was fucked up. you guys are commenting on a completely new change to the animation, an animation you dont use that much. seems abit like you dont want 1h to get their old right-swing because then you wont be able to rapeface as much as you do currently...
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Sniger on May 22, 2014, 12:32:26 pm
Well no, I'm 1h first and I prefer the new animation. I may not have dozens of hours of playtime with it yet, but nothing of note seems bad about it.

never referred to you, if i did it was mistake.

Besides, most of those commenting are 2h or polearm because there are already few 1h players left, and they aren't really well represented on the forums either, with the likes of you and melcke.

and why do you think that is?

 :lol:
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Joseph Porta on May 22, 2014, 12:32:45 pm
Well no, I'm 1h first and I prefer the new animation. I may not have dozens of hours of playtime with it yet, but nothing of note seems bad about it.

Besides, most of those commenting are 2h or polearm because there are already few 1h players left, and they aren't really well represented on the forums either, with the likes of you and melcke.

Ive always had atleast one alt that was a swashbuckler(best class evar), so I guess I somewhat represent the 1h players.
(Guard_Commissar, forward! For the motherland!)
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Corsair831 on May 22, 2014, 12:34:45 pm
what you call "abusing game mechanics to the limits" i call "skill"

knowing the exact reaches of the weapon you are using and using that to out-range someone who has a much greater reach than you, i consider much more skillfull than what is offered by the new swing, which is abusing it's early animation hit by taking high damage (either high damage weapon or high powerstrike/WPF), and abusing the early animation hit.

i'd much sooner have people skillfully using the ranges of the weapons which they've learnt with much practice, than i would have people simply spamming rightswing with high damage abusing the broken sweetspots from the early animation hit.

please give the old one back.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Joseph Porta on May 22, 2014, 12:38:29 pm
Messif skillz wow

My 2 cents are given, now im broke.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Cicero on May 22, 2014, 12:53:45 pm
didnt comment on them because i felt the change would make it easyer for them to kill me, i commented because i thought something was fucked up. you guys are commenting on a completely new change to the animation, an animation you dont use that much. seems abit like you dont want 1h to get their old right-swing because then you wont be able to rapeface as much as you do currently...
Fuckin moron i have been playing this game for 5 years ; and i am pretty sure that i am way too better than you and yes i can comment on every class regardless.

If that animation will come back i want 360 stab , 360 head attack aka slowing effect on turning with attack. But i dont personally want those things to come back as same as 1h animations aka ghost hit machine.

1h right swing change comes after polearm stun remove so its really good to not have ACS cavs as on horse using right swing as long spear.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Mr.K. on May 22, 2014, 01:49:21 pm
there are already few 1h players left, and they aren't really well represented on the forums either, with the likes of you and melcke.

http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/can-we-get-stats-of-servers/msg940271/#msg940271

Those few one-handers we have left seem to do quite a lot of damage, maybe they just so pro.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Butan on May 22, 2014, 01:50:53 pm
The new right swing seems more biomechanically viable and is also easier to hit the head of the enemy. I score lots of kills this way.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Sniger on May 22, 2014, 02:13:45 pm
http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/can-we-get-stats-of-servers/msg940271/#msg940271

Those few one-handers we have left seem to do quite a lot of damage, maybe they just so pro. cav

Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Mr.K. on May 22, 2014, 02:17:36 pm
cav

Arabian Cavalry Sword (mounted)       9,189,663  11.60%
Nordic Champion's Sword (mounted)     1,924,486  2.43% 
Knightly Arming Sword (mounted)       1,089,850  1.38% 

Lance (mounted)                    8,269,427  12.61%
Heavy Lance (mounted)              4,569,338  6.97% 
Great Lance (mounted)              2,094,177  3.19% 

There's a lot more onehanders than polearms. Fact.

Almost as many as two-handers, if the skill levels are similar. However I suspect the average skill level of a shielder is lower meaning that there could actually be more one-handers than two-handers. And that's on foot. With my 2H thrower I have hard time finding a 2H weapon on the ground when I'm out of jarids, one-handers on the other hand are plentiful. At least that's what it feels like.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Sniger on May 22, 2014, 02:25:17 pm
i dunno what them numbers mean, me stupid. kinda missing your point i think, what is it i need to look at?

meh, w/e, not gonna play shielder anyway, it sucks, not gonna play my toon "as the devs want it to be played" fuck that. having loads of fun with throwing lances: so many targets, who to pick, who to pick?!

troll game is troll
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Grumbs on May 22, 2014, 02:25:45 pm
Seems reasonable to me that 1 handers don't outreach anyone, but I don't see much difference with the right swing personally apart from it being better in most ways to me. I didn't have any particularly well honed techniques developed over years tho like some. I think if you used the new right swing as much as the old one you would like the new one a lot more

I do see a bit of an issue with blurring the lines between the classes and the swings though like has been happening. Why can't 1 handers be super short range and low damage like they used to be? Why can't poles have amazing stabs? Why can't 2 handers have good stabs and duelling ability? If they have their own inbuilt weaknesses and strengths its OK for them to be quite different. You just have to balance so they can play to their strengths and minimise weaknesses by the way they play. There has been a huge push to make 1 handers stand up to 2 handers by mimicking things like crazy stabs, long range etc when its not necessary if they have their own different strengths. Poles should have amazing stabs if they only have 1 or 2 direction attacks etc
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Sniger on May 22, 2014, 02:27:21 pm
crpg is devs vs. players. when players start to do well: NERFTIME

MR. K. ITS COOL YOU DONT HAVE TO SPEND LOADS OF TIME AND EFFORT MAKING A POST. frankly, i dont really care
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Corsair831 on May 22, 2014, 03:25:52 pm
Seems reasonable to me that 1 handers don't outreach anyone, but I don't see much difference with the right swing personally apart from it being better in most ways to me. I didn't have any particularly well honed techniques developed over years tho like some. I think if you used the new right swing as much as the old one you would like the new one a lot more

I do see a bit of an issue with blurring the lines between the classes and the swings though like has been happening. Why can't 1 handers be super short range and low damage like they used to be? Why can't poles have amazing stabs? Why can't 2 handers have good stabs and duelling ability? If they have their own inbuilt weaknesses and strengths its OK for them to be quite different. You just have to balance so they can play to their strengths and minimise weaknesses by the way they play. There has been a huge push to make 1 handers stand up to 2 handers by mimicking things like crazy stabs, long range etc when its not necessary if they have their own different strengths. Poles should have amazing stabs if they only have 1 or 2 direction attacks etc

that's the point

i know exactly how to use the new 1h right swing; you take a very high damaging weapon/high power strike and spam the right swing and abuse the broken sweet spots

the point is, i don't think crpg needs yet another nooby attack which is more focussed on spam and trying to get lucky, than it is focussed on skill. the old right swing was completely about timing; and it could be used (if you were very practised and had a very good sense of the swing reach) to outrange people with longer weapons and very nicely for target switching.

the new attack is purely focussed on spamming to abuse the sweetspot. it's like we've just had a skill mechanic removed and a spam mechanic implemented. y u do this devs, y u do this.

edit: as for your point about each class performing a more specific role, the more you reduce a classes ability to perform well against other classes, the more you pigeon hole that class, the more you make the game into a rock paper scissors game, and the more you reduce the skill ceiling of the game.

each class should have a reasonable ability to fight against other classes IMO, and reducing the range of the 1h swing like this massively reduces it's ability to fight against half the classes in the game.

this includes

Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Gravoth_iii on May 22, 2014, 04:03:05 pm
I just played some with a 95 reach onehander, and i could range control pretty good with rightswing, i could also hit cav easily with it.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Jarlek on May 22, 2014, 04:06:44 pm
Arabian Cavalry Sword (mounted)       9,189,663  11.60%
Nordic Champion's Sword (mounted)     1,924,486  2.43% 
Knightly Arming Sword (mounted)       1,089,850  1.38% 

Lance (mounted)                    8,269,427  12.61%
Heavy Lance (mounted)              4,569,338  6.97% 
Great Lance (mounted)              2,094,177  3.19% 

There's a lot more onehanders than polearms. Fact.

Almost as many as two-handers, if the skill levels are similar. However I suspect the average skill level of a shielder is lower meaning that there could actually be more one-handers than two-handers. And that's on foot. With my 2H thrower I have hard time finding a 2H weapon on the ground when I'm out of jarids, one-handers on the other hand are plentiful. At least that's what it feels like.
That's because all the 1handers died to the superskilled masterace 2handers.

#2hHardYo
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Tydeus on May 22, 2014, 07:09:39 pm
I have been reading all of these threads closely. Last night, I made a third revision (the second hadn't even gone live yet) to the right swing, based on the feedback found in these threads as well as my own perception in game. While I understand your reasoning, I have to say I still believe you're overreacting due to the fact that, with the right camera orientation, the new animation has the longest effective reach out of any of the 1h right swing animations.
 
How is this figured? Easy, weapon length is a static thing that can only be changed by altering the weapon’s Length stat. Since none of the 1h weapons have had their length stat altered, that means effective reach is being decided by orientation, and arm extension. So, weapon length is irrelevant for figuring out the effective length change, just so long as you’re using the same weapon in your comparisons. With that being said, here are images comparing effective lengths.

(click to show/hide)
The longer one you see there, is the new right-to-left animation (the one on the servers right now). This isn't some camera trick, this is what happens when you look for effective length. That is, when you take Geometry into consideration. Just because something is farther forward, doesn't mean it's further away from your point of reference. Meaning, when you're able to turn your camera, the new animation will have significantly longer reach.

(click to show/hide)
Before going further, you should keep in mind that Warband blends between frames. Here are two pictures just to reinforce the point that when the weapon is directly in front, the length is almost identical(if not actually identical).

Still, as explained in another thread, its at the natural(facing your opponent) 2 o'clock/3 o'clock position where the old swing will have longer reach. To counter this, I have lowered the angle of the sword at this frame, as well as slightly increased the speed of the swing. It will still be the slowest swing, but will make-up for the fact that the older swing was better for hitting (earlier, at the 2-3 o'clock positions). Effective speed should be much, much more similar after the next patch.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Corsair831 on May 22, 2014, 07:25:31 pm
ok thanks for the update tydeus, when my internet is working properly again i will test it out, if indeed it is the same length there may not be a problem

remember however it is not only to do with the length of the swing but the arc as well, the old swing was very long ranged with a huge arc, the new one not so much; the decreased arc makes it significantly harder to fight archers, crossbows, throwers etc etc as a shielder

we will see how it pans out when your new animation is released anyway

if it doesn't work out well though, please keep an open mind to reverting it to the old animation, as you can see there is a lot of popular support for this.

regards, corsair
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: BaleOhay on May 23, 2014, 02:31:37 am
I stopped playing my one hander shield after the original right swing update. I did not like the change and with an iberian I felt I was missing things that I normally could hit with it. Bale is gen 24 (many of them 32 plus retires) so I believe I have enough experience to have an educated opinion.

Ty has this new swing gone into place yet? I will dust off Ohay and see what I think


Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Artyem on May 23, 2014, 02:38:33 am
Are there any changes planned for other animations? 
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Sniger on May 23, 2014, 08:43:23 am
remember however it is not only to do with the length of the swing but the arc as well, the old swing was very long ranged with a huge arc, the new one not so much; the decreased arc makes it significantly harder to fight archers, crossbows, throwers etc etc as a shielder

not to meantion when fighting elevated. old right swing was nice horizontal. so... yeah...

the arc
horizontal attack

before we had vertical, diagonal and horizontal. now we have vertical and diagonal. :(
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Teeth on May 23, 2014, 10:06:13 am
6000 hours of rightswing practice and you were wrong about the reach of the new animation, good duel.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Tydeus on May 23, 2014, 01:39:45 pm
I stopped playing my one hander shield after the original right swing update. I did not like the change and with an iberian I felt I was missing things that I normally could hit with it. Bale is gen 24 (many of them 32 plus retires) so I believe I have enough experience to have an educated opinion.

Ty has this new swing gone into place yet? I will dust off Ohay and see what I think
The screenshots compare what you're calling the first revision, with the version that has been on the servers for about a year now, ever since my first change.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Corsair831 on May 23, 2014, 02:01:41 pm
6000 hours of rightswing practice and you were wrong about the reach of the new animation, good duel.

i wasn't wrong, and you still suck when you're not armour crutching with an instant stabbing weapon, nab

edit: also, notice it's all the experienced 1h shielders who are against the new rightswing, and all of the proponents of it are 2h heros / pike heros / archers / cav
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Tydeus on May 23, 2014, 02:05:29 pm
edit: also, notice it's all the experienced 1h shielders who are against the new rightswing, and all of the proponents of it are 2h heros / pike heros / archers / cav
No. There are also dedicated 1hers that are for keeping this new anim.

Edit: This is the newest revision to the animation, for anyone curious. Just replace the old brf inside of modules/crpg/resources/, launch crpg, go to a duel server to see how it looks, check "repair" in the launcher to revert to the brf the servers are using(else things could be a little screwy for you). https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24876970/cRPG%20Stuff/anim_tydeus_nudges.rar
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Corsair831 on May 23, 2014, 02:10:33 pm
No. There are also dedicated 1hers that are for keeping this new anim.

you're right, there are, but there are vastly more in favour of removing it

look at the +'s and -'s on the front page

there are some decent shielders who +'d the first post, and all of the -'ers are 2h/pole heros/cav/archers/unknowns
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Teeth on May 23, 2014, 02:36:45 pm
(click to show/hide)
There is your proof Corsair. At frame 19, the furthest extension of the right swing reach, both the new and old extend the same amount, there is no denying it. All your arguments about it being shorter are thereby completely refuted, the only difference is a difference in angle and speed. All you have left now are your delusions of personal grandeur in regards to your personal skill and playstyle and personal attacks at people that disagree with you.

You are simply wrong.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Herezy92 on May 23, 2014, 04:46:59 pm
you're right, there are, but there are vastly more in favour of removing it

look at the +'s and -'s on the front page

there are some decent shielders who +'d the first post, and all of the -'ers are 2h/pole heros/cav/archers/unknowns
Lol first : Only a small part of the comunity is using the forum
Second : +/- aren't consider as a POLL (no point taking it as exemple)
Third thing : I want to see the new (fixed) animation made b Tydeus which will come with the next patch (i hope so) because i am too lazy to download his file and don't want to fuck something which is going to be different from the server settings.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: BaleOhay on May 24, 2014, 12:40:06 am
if what is on the servers is the "fixed right swing", it blows. Sorry if that upsets the people who created it.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: San on May 24, 2014, 01:34:25 am
It looks weird, but we'll have to see how the newer one works out for next patch.
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Falka on May 24, 2014, 10:07:56 am
heh, what a whining cunt you are Corsair   :rolleyes:

Edit, just checked this new right swing, looks cool :P
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Corsair831 on May 24, 2014, 01:00:50 pm
heh, what a whining cunt you are Corsair   :rolleyes:

Edit, just checked this new right swing, looks cool :P

ban

edit: btw, can people give me 20 renown and 20 infamy so i have exactly 1000 renown and 500 infamy? :D
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: Konrax on May 24, 2014, 01:40:48 pm
Not sure how I feel about the right swing to be honest.

I don't mind it, it is faster and therefore more utility in a fast confrontation, however I still feel it doesn't quite go as far as the old right swing.

I know people posted on here that it is the same, but it just feels a bit shy to me.


EDIT:

I don't care if it's changed back or not
Title: Re: Please can we get old 1h right swing back
Post by: UnholyRolyPoly on May 24, 2014, 05:08:27 pm
I've already adjusted to the new animation.  I don't think it's a problem.  But obviously a lot of people do.  So either way is fine with me.  I can't wait to see the revised version.