Plz add pre-nerf Dark Wood Grain Ring so I can ninja flip in full Havel's and Poise through any attack.
On a serious note I would only be in favor of the first suggestion, the minor roll and stand up from knockdown. It wouldn't be game-breaking for normal combat and would be an interesting option for people knocked down by either blunt weapons or horse bumps.
Sounds interesting, but only allow it for characters using light armor. Also give it a quite a long cooldown and make it somehow risky to use.Yeah I shouldn't be able to do rolls and stuff in my armor. Same for people with large weapons like pikes, mauls, etc.
One thing that bothers me about these new additions like nudge and dodge are how they necessitate the use of more and more keys. The bare-bones combat of M&B is good because it's simple and intuitive. You only need your mouse and WASD to attack/defend and to move. For me at least nudges aren't hard to use because of how they're designed, but because I always end up hitting C or V or space instead. It's frustrating, and I think that using 'dodge' would be the same way.
We're thinking about implementing new dodge mechanics but we want to make sure the community is at least interested in the possibilities fist.
Borrowing from Dark Souls, I like the idea of 3 different dodge speeds based on stats and gear. Agility/Athletics and armor weight really need to be a factor here. A 30/9 Strength build dodging in plate armor should look like a fat roll from Dark Souls. 6 Agility in plate should maybe not be able to dodge at all? I'm not sure which should hold a bigger factor though: Stats or gear. What kind of roll should a character with 7 Athletics and in plate be able to do? A medium roll?
Yeah, Nudge's key binding is pretty inconvenient, and you can't change it without WSE2. Maybe dodging could be a double tap of a directional key?
Skeptical to be sure. I can already picture everyone leaping around the battlefield to move faster and tincans leaping around to chase archers. The game would look like fish going upstream...
So yeah, IF you put in any of this then make sure it is all on a long cooldown so it doesn't turn the game into a goofy shit show. Also, maybe consider only giving these moves to people with 10 or less armour (head, body, gloves, boots) weight, or 6-8+ athletics. Also, we talked about this a bit on TS today and we agreed that adding more defensive tricks sounds like it will just slow things down more... what we would REALLY like to see is for the game speed to be turned up again!
too complicated I like rolling after knockdown but with all this dark souls stuff being discussed I'm afraid we will see all wanna be starfoxes soon enough.Dark Souls dive has elements that are appealing but by no means would we take it 1:1, let alone take anything else from a game with a mediocre melee system. Dark Souls dive is simply my way of explaining the idea which was originally presented by Ozin/Urist. While it's possible that Ozin has played the game(I haven't asked him), I know that Urist has not, so it's certainly not the source of inspiration.
The idea is that you double tap for a directional key and double tap+hold for a side step/hop. Ground roll would only require a single press of left/right keys. This functionality has already been coded and tested. It's really intuitive and easy to use, especially compared to nudges.
The idea is that you double tap for a directional key and double tap+hold for a side step/hop. Ground roll would only require a single press of left/right keys. This functionality has already been coded and tested. It's really intuitive and easy to use, especially compared to nudges.
As for the dodges, I don't quite see the point. Why not just adjust the current jump so that based on ath or agi, you'd recover quicker from landing down?
Because what people think to be badly needed balancing fixes is just their own lobby-twisted view demanding buffs for themselves and nerfs for the others. The mod is pretty balanced from my point of view and I'll make new stuff 'cause it's fun (for me) and eventually add it if the rest of the devs agree.If this was true, i'd be asking for an archery buff. I personally don't even see why you buffed bows. but seen as though I have a lobby twisted view "why the funk didn't you nerf sheilds they block arrows wtf".
Why don't you stop thinking about adding things and finish off balancing the mod?
Because you possess an uncanny combination of selective recognition, frenetic ignorance and believe in the significance of anecdotal evidence.
Because what people think to be badly needed balancing fixes is just their own lobby-twisted view demanding buffs for themselves and nerfs for the others.
etc, etc
Because what people think to be badly needed balancing fixes is just their own lobby-twisted view demanding buffs for themselves and nerfs for the others. The mod is pretty balanced from my point of view and I'll make new stuff 'cause it's fun (for me) and eventually add it if the rest of the cRPG devs agree. If it doesn't work out it gets removed. Why not test mechanics in cRPG and give the Melee devs an idea if there is any point of implementing it into their game or not?
Bring it on!
The whole thing needs to get a nice balance, though. Nudging with high str results in heavier knockbacks or even knockdowns, while the ability to dodge with high str-chars is very limited. Heavy armour such as heraldic transitional or basically anything that has much plate in it and weighs a ton shouldn't be allowed to do the big nudges at all (Although rolling on the floor should still work, seems reasonable to me) or just have a version where the jump is simply a little further step in the direction than the normal wasd-keys would provide. While doing that, i think those armours would need a buff to compensate not being able to dodge as good with them.
On the other hand agi chars should stay with the weak nudge they have right now, which simply stuns a little, but then have the possibility to nudge more often. For dodging they could max out the animation with a certain amount of athletics and be able to use it more often than the str-builds. Of course, they shouldn't be allowed to roll and jump around on the field every other second, reducing the timer should only be like 1 or 1.5 seconds max. Would still make a difference, though.
I'd say think about this very thoroughly and then give us them goodies. Anything that is being added into the game is a little step forward to even more dynamic and fun fights.
Also, the new knockdown would be very welcome. Getting knocked down, getting hit on the ground and then getting knocked down AGAIN happens way too often. Especially with 1h blunt.
inb4(click to show/hide)
Enjoying my polearm nudge, nevertheless (thank you Tydeus).pole-nudge should be AoE though (considering weapon-size and weight) and 2h-overhead-nudge should have kd-chance ... :mrgreen:
plate armors are not heavier than chainmail armour at last not that much if at all but that depends on what armours we want compare
also plate armors were extremyl good designed and provided good movement abilities.
but your version sounds more balanced
I don't like the idea of any sort of 'rolling'. Also the whole point of knockdown is so you can get a free hit against shielders when they are on the ground, if you add rolling after being knockdown you might as well just remove knockdown from the game..i think kd-roll should be made as a challenge to hit a key in a very shoort time-window after you get kd'd this would make alot of sense and fun imo :mrgreen:
The only thing I can think about is all the hit boxes being wonky everywhere and people morphing into each other constantly.
I only see problems with the dodging idea. As for the knockdown roll. I really do not think it is needed nor fair to those who use knockdown. Although, I guess if it heavily relied on your overall weight it would be alright.
Because what people think to be badly needed balancing fixes is just their own lobby-twisted view demanding buffs for themselves and nerfs for the others. The mod is pretty balanced from my point of view and I'll make new stuff 'cause it's fun (for me) and eventually add it if the rest of the cRPG devs agree. If it doesn't work out it gets removed. Why not test mechanics in cRPG and give the Melee devs an idea if there is any point of implementing it into their game or not?
Oh yeah before you start adding more features could you make the Nudge key rebindable first so I can actually use it? thanks.
What i like about Warband in general is the freedom of movement you have to spin/dodge etc. Dodging is a skill an art for some. The direction seems to be heading away from personal movement and towards who can hit the right combo of keys quicker :(
Footwork is a key skill to learn and separates the great from the good i just feel like this would be a move to dumb down combat.
I like the sidestep option, with the following caveats;
-If you get hit while leaping to the side, you have a chance to be knocked down (even by non-knockdown weapons)
-The leap distance/speed/cooldown should be a function of agility, athletics, and/or armor weight
-You can still block while leaping, but not attack
I don't like the roll option. I don't think it's something a medieval knight would have ever done during combat.
NO! ... just NO!
NO! ... just NO!
Nothing too game changing here, just another tool in the bag.
It's a lot of work considering I'm not convinced that it adds depth to combat.
I like the idea, but you are going to make an animation that you say is:
I remember you being against adding crouch to the game with the following reasoning:
Why you do wanna do 1, and not the other?
Crouch only makes sense for crossbowmen.
Dodge would be something that every player can utilize.
I like the sidestep option the most. As a shielder, it's pretty annoying to have to point your shield to the side to dodge in that direction. Jumping just doesn't cut it.
I think crouching also has some good effects on gameplay at this point without any odd behaviors arising.
just update EU7That!
Imo : Players are still learning the nudge that was recentley introduced another new mechanic should probably wait awhile. Also, the rolling after a dodge is performed will likely cause more problems than it solves. I would like to see another mechanic added eventually but just not right after the nudge.
True that Tojo. Heck, I still have never executed a chamber block on purpose in my 16 gens, and consider feints/holds/kicks/and now nudge to be "advanced mechanics" in the sense that it still takes a fairly skilled player to execute them properly.
Add more keys that I have to find in the heat of battle, and it may be overwhelming. Part of the beauty of warband is the depth of combat that can be achieved with just 2 mouse buttons and WASD.
True that Tojo. Heck, I still have never executed a chamber block on purpose in my 16 gens, and consider feints/holds/kicks/and now nudge to be "advanced mechanics" in the sense that it still takes a fairly skilled player to execute them properly.
Add more keys that I have to find in the heat of battle, and it may be overwhelming. Part of the beauty of warband is the depth of combat that can be achieved with just 2 mouse buttons and WASD.
Part of the beauty of warband is the depth of combat that can be achieved with just 2 mouse buttons and WASD.