New Mechanic: Dodge

[Grumbs]

Never liked double taps. First thing I disable in a game with them. Hopefully they don't add the 2 second mechanics, but if they do don't force double taps

[Necrorave]

The only thing I can think about is all the hit boxes being wonky everywhere and people morphing into each other constantly.

I only see problems with the dodging idea.  As for the knockdown roll.  I really do not think it is needed nor fair to those who use knockdown.  Although, I guess if it heavily relied on your overall weight it would be alright.

[Legs]

The idea is that you double tap for a directional key and double tap+hold for a side step/hop. Ground roll would only require a single press of left/right keys. This functionality has already been coded and tested. It's really intuitive and easy to use, especially compared to nudges.

If it's rolled (lol) into the current control scheme like this I don't have any problem with it. I've always thought that one of Warband's shortcomings was how it failed to incorporate some of the different kinds of things that were possible IRL but not in the game. On that note, I wonder if there any 'disarm' mechanics being considered? I'm not necessarily for or against, just curious.

Also, as other people have said, it seems like a good idea to limit the effectiveness of dodges based on certain constraints like weight, agility, weapon type, etc.

[Gmnotutoo]

24 Agility minimum to perform such stunts! We'll finally get our buff! I don't care if its in the most thinking outside of the box type way, this is awesome for being a ninja.

[WITCHCRAFT]

Rolling a small distance after being knocked down sounds like a good idea, but in my head all I can see is the animation of a player whose horse dies - they magically slide around the ground then teleport backwards, with their hitbox being nowhere near the actual body. I would also ask that turn radius speed (such as overhead attacking with an english bill or swiss halberd) be rebalanced if this type of dodge was added.

Sidesteps would be nice, but if you added a backwards step too I would really hope that the speed of regular "backpedaling" was reduced. It should have a 5-10 second cooldown, maybe even sharing one with nudge. You don't want everyone to be simultaneaously hopping and nudging all over the battlefield. That would be silly. Will you be able to block or attack during the leap? I think that short length weapons (nothing longer than a longsword or a war spear) could reasonably attack while making a small leap. It would be reasonable for throwers to be the only ranged who could attack during one of these leaps. Things like greatswords and pikes would be too unwieldy. Maybe manual blocking but no shield block, like the current system with kicks? What about a forwards leap?

the roll & recover like dark souls should come with a heavy penalty or cooldown. It would basically get you out of a cavalry charge for free if you were aware of the incoming horse. Against other infantry players, I'm not sure what would happen. If the recovery animation was too slow, anyone could get a free hit on you unless you dive behind a teamate. If it was too fast, there'd be no reason NOT to roll as soon as the cooldown was up. I think this one should not be added until one of the more "minor" dodges are implemented and tested.


From what I saw after nudge was implemented, thing won't be overused even if they are "OP" to some extent. When nudge was first introduced, several of the better 1H/no shield swords got buffed. You would think everyone and their mother would hop on the nudge bandwagon and take advantage of this OPness. I only saw a small portion of players utilize nudge for a while. Takes time to adjust and all, etc. Thanks for reading my 2 cents! 

[Torben]

and dont't forget:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=18ASBsQfXnw#t=73s

[korppis]

Rolling while knocked down sounds very good, as long as you can't do it while sliding face down on the grass after being dehorsed.

As for the dodges, I don't quite see the point. Why not just adjust the current jump so that based on ath or agi, you'd recover quicker from landing down?

[WITCHCRAFT]

As for the dodges, I don't quite see the point. Why not just adjust the current jump so that based on ath or agi, you'd recover quicker from landing down?

That would actually be really interesting, to see more of a difference in your jumping ability based on stats and items. I have no idea if the code for jumping could be changed though, some things in M&B are stuck the way they are.

[Byrdi]

Range and outranging is already too effective.

This would only lead to boring fights (fights based on blocking skill or a moderate combination of those two are way more fun).

Knockdown part is okay, but does knockdown need nerfing? Its not really that powerful (except when Butan uses it )

[Paul]

The inspiration is of course from classics like Unreal Tournament(Ozin) and from my side a bit Dungeon Lords, not that silly newish Angsty Souls stuff. It shares nudge cooldown , is triggered by double tabbing direction keys and does not allow blocking/attacking atm.

Knockdown recovery would use a rather challenging time window within the dodge command has to be entered so only the mentally prepared can excape. I'd like to combine it (and use it as a failsafe against exploiting) with removing randomness from knockdown but I dunno how cmp thinks about that yet.
I think a non-crushing headhit with a kd-flagged weapon against a non-defending opponent should knockdown if a certain threshold is met.
Something like
raw_damage > 25
AND
raw_damage + sqrt( 324 * attacker_weapon_weight ) > some_constant + victim_helmet_weight * 10
with some_constant being 20 or so.

[Cyber]

It's hard to say without actually getting to test it out ingame though based on how nudge ended up working out it would probably better off with none.

[Canuck]

First thing I thought of was the Star Wars Jedi Academy games! Those games were the best! Rolling around, dodging, and jumping. Fast paced (though maybe a little wonky) combat. It could be great! But it could also be terrible. I'd be up for seeing it, anyway! Especially if it was affected by things like agility and gear.

Don't forget to add magic too.

[jtobiasm]

Why don't you stop thinking about adding things and finish off balancing the mod?

[Everkistus]

How about you buff heavy armor but remove roll and such. Keep light armor as it is and implement these for armors under lordly bonus.

[Paul]

Because what people think to be badly needed balancing fixes is just their own lobby-twisted view demanding buffs for themselves and nerfs for the others. The mod is pretty balanced from my point of view and I'll make new stuff 'cause it's fun (for me) and eventually add it if the rest of the cRPG devs agree. If it doesn't work out it gets removed. Why not test mechanics in cRPG and give the Melee devs an idea if there is any point of implementing it into their game or not?