New Mechanic: Dodge

[Duster]

If a dodge is added, cavalry lance radius should definitely be re-looked at. I say slow and steady with these additions. New stuff is good, but too much turns into a shit show.

[cup457]

How are all these fat nerds expected to stand back up after they barrel roll to the side?

[Grumbs]

The roll out of knockdown doesn't sound too bad, but the other two seem like they would be very overpowered especially for kiting.Whoever does the initial movement (defensively) will have the advantage over whoever follows with their own dodge, since they can wait after their animation for whoever follows. If you have a ranged attack you can especially take advantage of someone trying to follow, but would apply for melee too. Using it aggressively to chase someone will just result in the other guy dodging a different direction while yours is on cooldown.

Rolling out of knockdown might be OK if it follows some laws of physics. But please try to think of what you're trying to let people counter with dodge. Think of whether you're putting it in just because you can or because it will actually have some positive impact on tactical or skill based group fighting.

Movement is very tactical in M&B, you should have to plan your movements somewhat. If you're in a bad position you should be punished for that not have a backup button to press to get out of it.

[Legs]

Being able to roll after a knockdown could work, but the other two suggestions don't seem practical.

One thing that bothers me about these new additions like nudge and dodge are how they necessitate the use of more and more keys. The bare-bones combat of M&B is good because it's simple and intuitive. You only need your mouse and WASD to attack/defend and to move. For me at least nudges aren't hard to use because of how they're designed, but because I always end up hitting C or V or space instead. It's frustrating, and I think that using 'dodge' would be the same way.

If you map 'roll' to right click when your character's downed instead of to some other key it might be okay. Otherwise I'm against these changes.

[Gristle]

Borrowing from Dark Souls, I like the idea of 3 different dodge speeds based on stats and gear. Agility/Athletics and armor weight really need to be a factor here. A 30/9 Strength build dodging in plate armor should look like a fat roll from Dark Souls. 6 Agility in plate should maybe not be able to dodge at all? I'm not sure which should hold a bigger factor though: Stats or gear. What kind of roll should a character with 7 Athletics and in plate be able to do? A medium roll?

One thing that bothers me about these new additions like nudge and dodge are how they necessitate the use of more and more keys. The bare-bones combat of M&B is good because it's simple and intuitive. You only need your mouse and WASD to attack/defend and to move. For me at least nudges aren't hard to use because of how they're designed, but because I always end up hitting C or V or space instead. It's frustrating, and I think that using 'dodge' would be the same way.

Yeah, Nudge's key binding is pretty inconvenient, and you can't change it without WSE2. Maybe dodging could be a double tap of a directional key?

[Dexxtaa]

We're thinking about implementing new dodge mechanics but we want to make sure the community is at least interested in the possibilities fist.

I love me some fist possibilities.

[Konrax]

Borrowing from Dark Souls, I like the idea of 3 different dodge speeds based on stats and gear. Agility/Athletics and armor weight really need to be a factor here. A 30/9 Strength build dodging in plate armor should look like a fat roll from Dark Souls. 6 Agility in plate should maybe not be able to dodge at all? I'm not sure which should hold a bigger factor though: Stats or gear. What kind of roll should a character with 7 Athletics and in plate be able to do? A medium roll?

Yeah, Nudge's key binding is pretty inconvenient, and you can't change it without WSE2. Maybe dodging could be a double tap of a directional key?

Double tap directional key for a quick short leap would be great for this mod, give it its own 5 second cool down timer.

As far as rolls goes that would be a dive I would say that would be bad to add.

Being able to roll while on the ground after a knock down would be great also.

[Matey]

Skeptical to be sure. I can already picture everyone leaping around the battlefield to move faster and tincans leaping around to chase archers. The game would look like fish going upstream...

So yeah, IF you put in any of this then make sure it is all on a long cooldown so it doesn't turn the game into a goofy shit show. Also, maybe consider only giving these moves to people with 10 or less armour (head, body, gloves, boots) weight, or 6-8+ athletics. Also, we talked about this a bit on TS today and we agreed that adding more defensive tricks sounds like it will just slow things down more... what we would REALLY like to see is for the game speed to be turned up again!

[Grumbs]

Skeptical to be sure. I can already picture everyone leaping around the battlefield to move faster and tincans leaping around to chase archers. The game would look like fish going upstream...

So yeah, IF you put in any of this then make sure it is all on a long cooldown so it doesn't turn the game into a goofy shit show. Also, maybe consider only giving these moves to people with 10 or less armour (head, body, gloves, boots) weight, or 6-8+ athletics. Also, we talked about this a bit on TS today and we agreed that adding more defensive tricks sounds like it will just slow things down more... what we would REALLY like to see is for the game speed to be turned up again!

Giving dodge to the fastest moving guys sounds counter intuitive. Thinking from a gameplay perspective the slowest movers will need dodge the most, giving it to guys with low armour will be like giving the best kiters another kiting tool. On the otherhand having heavy armour guys rolling around chasing agi guys would be a bit too unrealistic. Best to not add this type of mechanic imo, sounds so exploitable. Just because it works in another game doesn't mean it will here

[Tydeus]

The idea is that you double tap for a directional key and double tap+hold for a side step/hop. Ground roll would only require a single press of left/right keys. This functionality has already been coded and tested. It's really intuitive and easy to use, especially compared to nudges. These are obviously going to have a cooldown and won't be able to be spammed, cRPG/Warband is not Dark Souls. After it's implemented(Assuming it is), if it's even possible to cover more ground faster with a roll/hop, I don't think it would be good to have any but the most extreme cases capable of doing this. It would have to be used for quick distance creation that by the end, would amount to less than the distance you'd cover had you simply ran normally.

[betard_lulz]

too complicated I like rolling after knockdown but with all this dark souls stuff being discussed I'm afraid we will see all wanna be starfoxes soon enough.

[Tydeus]

too complicated I like rolling after knockdown but with all this dark souls stuff being discussed I'm afraid we will see all wanna be starfoxes soon enough.

Dark Souls dive has elements that are appealing but by no means would we take it 1:1, let alone take anything else from a game with a mediocre melee system. Dark Souls dive is simply my way of explaining the idea which was originally presented by Ozin/Urist. While it's possible that Ozin has played the game(I haven't asked him), I know that Urist has not, so it's certainly not the source of inspiration.

[Kadeth]

The backwards hop sounds pretty silly to be honest, players can already dodge attacks by holding S, especially high agility characters. Giving "S key heroes" the ability to create even more distance sounds scary.

Can't see any major problems with the knockdown roll though, good work there.

[Jarold]

Please only implement the roll while on the ground. The others seem like they would get out of control.

[Gristle]

The idea is that you double tap for a directional key and double tap+hold for a side step/hop. Ground roll would only require a single press of left/right keys. This functionality has already been coded and tested. It's really intuitive and easy to use, especially compared to nudges.

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