cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Ecko on May 02, 2011, 07:43:00 pm

Title: Patch Poll
Post by: Ecko on May 02, 2011, 07:43:00 pm
Though many like the new patch, some players got left behind on the change over.


Some character builds with the new changes to crpg are now nurfed and those players understand but would like the opportunity to re-pick their stats without having to re-level (since the xp per gen has been reduced grinding to fix their builds would be really inconvenient).

Also, since weapons and shields now take up multiple slots, it would also only be fair to let players re-pick their heirlooms. (Note: This does not mean stealing heirlooms just a re-pick based on the number you have).



Please no trolling, just add a +1 if you would like to see this happen and vote yes or no.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: weight on May 02, 2011, 07:50:31 pm
+1 seems fair
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Gash on May 02, 2011, 07:52:56 pm
Indeed.

Both my character's (Hoplite & Horse Archer)  are gimped due to their stats being invested in combinations that are no longer allowed by CRPG.

Example: Horse archer had about 90 points in two-handed, so when he got dismounted he could still die trying.

Now I am limited to 15 arrows (which really isn't going to do much) and my 2-hander, OR use 3 stacks of arrows and not be able to use my heirloomed sword, I don't want to be a lame horse archer with only arrows, but now this patch forces me to do so until I can respec and carry a 1-hander.

Thus, with a re-spec - I would re-invest my two-handed wpf points to one-handed and pick a one-handed sword to heirloom.


Same goes with my Hoplite character... I will not invest wpf points in one-hander if I cannot carry my hierloomed huscarl shield and awlpike with the one-hander for emergency.

Likewise, I may just switch to a lower-tier shield and hierloom it so I can keep my awlpike and a one handed sword.


People would tolerate this patch a lot more if it allowed them to re-spec and re-choose their hierloomed weapons, instead of running around with gimped characters that need to be retired in order to fix half their problem.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Tzar on May 02, 2011, 08:00:02 pm
Heirloom respec YES!

But stat respec no thx.. if peoples builds are fecked they can join me and my main lvling up again
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Devilize on May 02, 2011, 08:01:10 pm
+1

This should have been done by default, we shouldn't have to collect sigs. In a post chadz complains about the communities behavior towards the patch and the "whine" that followed, yet he doesn't stop to think the perhaps the fault is his. If your going to screw around with peoples builds, turn around and nerf the xp bonus and to top it off not bother to provide a build/heirloom respec - yeah - people are going to get a little ornery. 
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: okiN on May 02, 2011, 08:01:37 pm
I think with all the changes we've seen a full stat respec by level is probably in order, especially if the skill conversion rate is changed as was discussed before. Heirloom respec wouldn't hurt, either, I guess, but I think it should be coupled with a second round of heirloom theft to make up for the ridiculous prepatch retirement.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Punisher on May 02, 2011, 08:06:38 pm
I support this idea, as I said in the other topics regarding it, considering the massive changes brought by this patch (not only balancing changes, but also the slot system that makes many old builds impossible and the very long time that will now be needed to get new heirlooms) a heirloom reset is in order for people to be able to adjust their builds to the new changes.

I'd take it further and say a stat reset is in order too, retiring to respec now takes ages and as oKiN said, if the skill conversion rate changes, a stat reset is unavoidable, otherwise people who already used it would have the advantage.

When I asked around, the only reason people don't want a reset is because it would allow those who heirloomed overpowered weapons that are now nerfed (barmace/long iron mace/greatswords) to get away with it. The solution is simple, either don't offer respec points for those items, either do another heirlooms/3 theft (this would partially solve some of the retirement system abuse).
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Belmont on May 02, 2011, 08:07:53 pm
I think with all the changes we've seen a full stat respec by level is probably in order, especially if the skill conversion rate is changed as was discussed before. Heirloom respec wouldn't hurt, either, I guess, but I think it should be coupled with a second round of heirloom theft to make up for the ridiculous prepatch retirement.

Thanks for an answer on this matter okiN, I wouldn't mind a heirloom theft if it mainly targets high generation players.

Also, please submit your vote on the feedback forum (http://crpg.uservoice.com/forums/110267-general?lang=en&utm_campaign=Widgets&utm_content=tab-widget&utm_medium=Popin+Widget&utm_source=crpg.uservoice.com) and maybe even on this topic (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,4545.0.html).
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Ecko on May 02, 2011, 08:23:33 pm
No one loses with a stat repick or heirloom. There is no reason not to vote yes...
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: chadz on May 02, 2011, 08:27:25 pm
i'm not a fan of this, but it might happen.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Ecko on May 02, 2011, 08:32:20 pm
i'm not a fan of this, but it might happen.

(click to show/hide)

Wouldn't mind that.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Punisher on May 02, 2011, 08:40:23 pm
i'm not a fan of this, but it might happen.

(click to show/hide)

If you don't want it to be free for everybody, you can always make it cost gold, something like the heirloom reforging (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3668.0.html).
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: The_Devious_Duc_Volpe on May 02, 2011, 08:43:46 pm
No need for Character re-spec, retirement takes care of that need. Heirloom re-spec, yes i am all for that.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Tor! on May 02, 2011, 09:02:49 pm
No need for Character re-spec, retirement takes care of that need. Heirloom re-spec, yes i am all for that.

What about us that have stop retiring and are just playing some times for fun? I'm 32 now, and got no plans to retire anymore - and I know others are in the same position as I am
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Gash on May 02, 2011, 09:11:13 pm
No need for Character re-spec, retirement takes care of that need. Heirloom re-spec, yes i am all for that.

I shouldn't need to spend more hours to re-level the same guy I was happy with pre-patch. I'll have to make adjustments with this patch which aren't very cool for me - but I'll deal with it if I dont have to restart from scratch again - with both characters...  :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Zergmar on May 02, 2011, 09:27:26 pm
+1

this has to be done, at least for players whose weapons got completely changed (like barmace)
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Centurion on May 02, 2011, 09:29:19 pm
i'm not a fan of this, but it might happen.

(click to show/hide)

If you do end up doing this i would greatly apreciate it as well as many others if u dont steal my hierlooms again. it would just tick off a bunch of the high gen ppl who are now starting to cool of all over again and we dont want that do we?
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Muriar on May 02, 2011, 09:30:05 pm
Vote: YES! ;-)
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: linnx88 on May 02, 2011, 09:30:36 pm
I vote a resounding YES! Please let the people respec and choose heirlooms over...
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Arked on May 02, 2011, 09:33:15 pm
+1 My build is useless atm.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Ujin on May 02, 2011, 09:35:36 pm
If you do end up doing this i would greatly apreciate it as well as many others if u dont steal my hierlooms again. it would just tick off a bunch of the high gen ppl who are now starting to cool of all over again and we dont want that do we?
+1.  Just let us reset our heirlooms peacefully and everyone will be happy =).
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Tzar on May 02, 2011, 09:45:20 pm
Damn so i just retired for no reason and will even have to grind even more because some people cant use their op hybrid builds anymore and demands a stat respec....

Fuckin fantastick what a waste of time lmao.....

Also i got like what 3 heirlooms and being low gen this would just be great for us casual players..  :cry:

Atleast dont take away heirlooms atleast make it so us people with low gens doenst lose our few looms we grinded for.

Again fuck stat respec..

But plus 1 for a redistrution of heirlooms without theft..
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Arked on May 02, 2011, 09:45:41 pm
Some older post from chadz:

This thread is beyond sillyness.

No heirloom theft planned.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Topsnus on May 02, 2011, 09:48:40 pm
VERY BAD IDEA.

All of the people with level 31 characters will build perfect builds. It would be completely unfair. The only character i was playing was a thrower who was like 26-28, the highest level i had ever achieved in this game. That character was totally ruined and is unplayable thanks to the patch. And i still believe that a respec would be a horrible idea. Not that it matters, chadz has always been against respecs for exactly that reason, and so it won't happen.

I would much rather a full database reset than a respec.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Tears of Destiny on May 02, 2011, 09:49:42 pm
Level 31s already have perfect builds if they meant to stay at that level...
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: chadz on May 02, 2011, 09:50:17 pm
just for the record:
no stat respec
heirloom amount will be adjusted.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Topsnus on May 02, 2011, 09:51:34 pm
Level 31s already have perfect builds if they meant to stay at that level...
i mean perfect builds relative to the new patch. And since the patch is just that, new, i can guarantee you that there is a very unfair build just waiting to be found. I would prefer if people had to actually work to get to that really cheap build, instead of just having it because they were exploiting a cheap build in the first place.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Seawied on May 02, 2011, 09:52:05 pm
absolutely needed. Some of my alts are completely unplayable because my main weapon now requires much higher stats than it did before and I am unable to level up enough in order to meet those stats. This patch was really damning without a respec
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Topsnus on May 02, 2011, 09:53:09 pm
just for the record:
no stat respec
heirloom amount will be adjusted.

CALLED IT!

look 4-5 posts up!
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Tzar on May 02, 2011, 09:54:19 pm
just for the record:
no stat respec
heirloom amount will be adjusted.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Canary on May 02, 2011, 09:57:36 pm
If they do let everyone reassign heirlooms, I don't think they should do it until after they've fixed all those weapons which are mysteriously missing. As for the matter itself, I think that while it's bad to merely let people swap their heirlooms when a bunch of items have gotten nerfed, on account of that'll just make a mass migration of players towards different "best in slot" choices, the slot system and the fact that several items had their requirements changed should possibly warrant a swap, although I guess that's one of the reasons the retirement system was implemented in the first place; the ability to change your spec when you should want to. It's not as if people can't get simply more heirlooms, too.

A wipe would really only effect people who play often enough to receive several heirlooms in the first place, for the most part, so it wouldn't be a very necessary thing to do anyway.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Lansamur on May 02, 2011, 09:58:55 pm
Thanks for an answer on this matter okiN, I wouldn't mind a heirloom theft if it mainly targets high generation players.

Also, please submit your vote on the feedback forum (http://crpg.uservoice.com/forums/110267-general?lang=en&utm_campaign=Widgets&utm_content=tab-widget&utm_medium=Popin+Widget&utm_source=crpg.uservoice.com) and maybe even on this topic (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,4545.0.html).

Why only high-gen-players? Either everybody or nobody with Heirloomthefts.

@topic: No. Adapt to new system with current heirlooms or don't, but I'm against a respec of heirlooms and stats.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Devestater on May 02, 2011, 10:28:43 pm
Is this not the point of the game? To retire and get heirlooms? XP gains? Why play if there is nothing to look forward to? The constant nerf is getting old.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Felagunda on May 02, 2011, 11:09:56 pm
I voted yes because it was the best thing for me and i feel the community. 

My question is though how many hierlooms before patch or after b/c I have 5 gens worth of looms missing?
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Boss_Awesome on May 02, 2011, 11:14:24 pm
I think an heirloom respec is needed and a stat respec is not.  With heirlooms what should be done is they are all reset, then a cap of 9 or 10 is put on it.  So people with few heirlooms won't get screwed by massive balancing changes and the people who had a lot of them will get to pick which ones they keep.  Also, i don't see why people are worried about everyone migrating to the next overpowered weapon?  Why not just balance the weapons so there is no clear cut choice? 
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Keshian on May 02, 2011, 11:21:41 pm
If they do let everyone reassign heirlooms, I don't think they should do it until after they've fixed all those weapons which are mysteriously missing. As for the matter itself, I think that while it's bad to merely let people swap their heirlooms when a bunch of items have gotten nerfed, on account of that'll just make a mass migration of players towards different "best in slot" choices, the slot system and the fact that several items had their requirements changed should possibly warrant a swap, although I guess that's one of the reasons the retirement system was implemented in the first place; the ability to change your spec when you should want to. It's not as if people can't get simply more heirlooms, too.

A wipe would really only effect people who play often enough to receive several heirlooms in the first place, for the most part, so it wouldn't be a very necessary thing to do anyway.

+1 agree.  Now all the new OP weapons are going to be masterworked again overnight and everyone using same weapons as everyone else again.  :(, i kind of respected the people I saw who took a chance triple heirlooomed stones (which got buffed) or normal xbows and were better off for it and the people triple heirlooming barmaces and sniper xbows (me too) crying.

You did read what he said, "heirloom amount will be adjusted", that means you just got probably everyone's number of heirlooms cut in half or more because you made a masterwork barmace or side sword or german greatsword or long hafted knobbed mace or heavy lance instead of less popular/OP weapons like the niuwadao or longsword or light lance which needed less nerfing.  So instead of your masterwork barmace you can get a tempered great long axe.  Someone said earlier it was onlya  win scenario, but the only way you are getting a heirloom respec is if he steals away heirlooms in the process.  You should have just settled for the trading system to get up and just traded for a different one.

I also like the guy with less than 10 heirlooms thinking everyone should be capped at 10.  Xp cap isn't enough??  I don't plan on retiring anymore myself but I know people that do (even thoguh only 3% bonus and most of the heirlooms stats nerfed really ahrd last patch) and thats kind of a crappy move on your part telling them they can't get more than 9 heirlooms (3 masterworked items) because you probably blame the other person having heirloomed items as the reason you lose a fight, which is kind of ridiculous if you look at the new changes to weapons (3x heirlooming 1 weapon = +1 speed, +2 damage).  You can only even use so many at any given time, so having more allows for trading and role-playing development.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: MrShovelFace on May 02, 2011, 11:33:33 pm
Is this not the point of the game? To retire and get heirlooms? XP gains? Why play if there is nothing to look forward to? The constant nerf is getting old.

heirlooms were never intended to be a central feature of the game. Originally they were implemented to ensure that 90% of the population was not always above level 35. But that was when the game was a slow paced and geared torwards progression.

you youngyins have no idea how hard it was once to get to op status before the previous steam sale. And leveling was impossibly hard as the very few players in the game could reach level 30.

After the steam sale the crpg pop went up by 500% and getting gold was easy. With almost 120 per round as opposed to the 50-60 per round (25 on the NA).

So it was logical at that time for chadz to assume that retirement (which at that time was expensive) would be hard to achieve! (and it was until steam sale)

after that we had people grinding like crazy sometimes getting 200 per round and working torwards genning like wild mindless animals
and now since gold is no longer an issue, some people's insane drive made them focus on exp like crazy!!!

since exp became the primary focus of the ... zombies, it became all that mattered to them (MAORAMARO MAOR GRING GRIINDDDD NOTHING MATTERS BUT GRIIIND)

and now that exp has been nerfed you find yourself lost and without purpose




in short, if you play this game only to watch two digits rise in value, go play something else until it changes

I however will have fun experimenting with new ways to play... but im done with cavemen


Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Banok on May 02, 2011, 11:47:45 pm
heirloom amount will be adjusted.

a bit vague, what does this mean?

hierloom theft?
hierloom respec + theft?
hierloom amount cap?

Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: chadz on May 02, 2011, 11:50:54 pm
hierloom respec + theft?

although we ensure that it is completely fair this time
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Ecko on May 02, 2011, 11:54:29 pm
Hey chadz, some people are wondering about those who sold their heirlooms because they thought they were useless now because of the patch...are they gonna be hurting or are you gonna have some mercy for those poor souls?
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: dynamike on May 02, 2011, 11:55:04 pm
"Life is a moving target"

Keep things the way they are now - that also has the nice side effect for people to have additional goals in the game instead of just picking what is best under the current circumstances and loose interest faster !
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Belmont on May 03, 2011, 12:01:39 am
although we ensure that it is completely fair this time

Thank you.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Sammael on May 03, 2011, 12:51:35 am
Balancing items so one is not able to use the best of everything is a great idea and I like how it has been implemented, with one exception.

Half my heirlooms are benched every round. If I were allowed to re-pick my heirlooms so I could use my 900 hours worth of gear, I'd be a happy crpg'er :)
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Keshian on May 03, 2011, 01:06:40 am
although we ensure that it is completely fair this time

How will heirloom theft be fair?  Last time 1/3 across the board was about as close to fair as was possible given it felt unfair to be losing heirlooms, but at least it treated everyone the same.  If you are doing it a different way then you are singling out a different group to lose more of a percentage than others, which by its definition is unfair.  Taking away all heirlooms would favor gen 1 level 33 people and would again be singling out retirees for unfair treatment.

The reason I ask is that you say it will be fair this time as if the last time was unfair.  Kind of figuring that means its one of the more unfair solutions singling out groups for unfair treatment but under the guise of "fairness".  or it could just be a troll statement and you are taking 1/2 instead this time (which I am sure some will think is unfair, but is as close to fair as you can get).
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Elmetiacos on May 03, 2011, 01:29:36 am
I'm in favour but it's more or less irrelevant to me now. I sold my heirloom shield and started again. It might be nice to swap my nonexistant tempered LEE for the weapon I've switched to.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Devestater on May 03, 2011, 02:49:10 am
heirlooms were never intended to be a central feature of the game. Originally they were implemented to ensure that 90% of the population was not always above level 35. But that was when the game was a slow paced and geared torwards progression.

Okay.... but heirlooms are not central feature and if xp is not... then what is???? its becoming pointless. YOU ALL NEED TO QUIT YOUR WHINING AND BITCHING AND LEAVE THE GAME ALONE!!! You all are making this game more political than it needs to be! All the set backs... or nerfing... is running people away from the game. Keep it up and it will soon be dead. Please just keep that in mind and keep it reasonable.
Nerfing a deadly warhammer by 5spd and 2dmg is excessive enough for me to want a repick.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: ManOfWar on May 03, 2011, 03:12:45 am
Good idea, implement please!
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Banok on May 03, 2011, 04:47:45 am
although we ensure that it is completely fair this time

thanks, idk what completely fair entails but I'll wait and see ;)

Hey chadz, some people are wondering about those who sold their heirlooms because they thought they were useless now because of the patch...are they gonna be hurting or are you gonna have some mercy for those poor souls?

considering we asked for this last time and didn't get it, I highly doubt it. since then I forced myself to never sell my hierlooms even if I will never use again.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Gorath on May 03, 2011, 05:27:54 am
No need for Character re-spec, retirement takes care of that need. Heirloom re-spec, yes i am all for that.

Sorry, now that xp gain has been nerfed for gen's (I had finally hit gen 4 and started seeing a DECENT xp bonus) the grind to 31 to retire is back to rediculously long.  Playing for a week(s) with a fucked up build JUST so you can retire and respec is pretty shitty.

Personally I'd rather just see a database reset and have everyone start over on an even field, but I doubt that'll happen.

And from chadz comment I'm assuming that "heirloom respec + theft" means that those of us who aren't gen 10+ are going to get fucked again because our ONE masterwork we finally achieved will get bumped down to a first gen heirloom while people like goretooth with still end up with enough heirloom points to have 3x upgraded armor + weapon as always.

 :cry:
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: MountedRhader on May 03, 2011, 05:44:55 am
And from chadz comment I'm assuming that "heirloom respec + theft" means that those of us who aren't gen 10+ are going to get fucked again because our ONE masterwork we finally achieved will get bumped down to a first gen heirloom while people like goretooth with still end up with enough heirloom points to have 3x upgraded armor + weapon as always.

He makes a valid point.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Astinus on May 03, 2011, 07:58:00 am
although we ensure that it is completely fair this time
total erasing of all current heirlooms?
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Huey Newton on May 03, 2011, 08:27:47 am
How about you have to buy heirloom points from now on

500k gold a pop and 10 bux for chadz should cover it


Nvm Im trolling again
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Vibe on May 03, 2011, 08:35:59 am
And from chadz comment I'm assuming that "heirloom respec + theft" means that those of us who aren't gen 10+ are going to get fucked again because our ONE masterwork we finally achieved will get bumped down to a first gen heirloom
 :cry:

Hm I feel like this too.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Heroin on May 03, 2011, 08:56:54 am
just for the record:
no stat respec
heirloom amount will be adjusted.

chadz,

Just for the record:

I think you're an unreasonable asshat who isn't taking the contributions of your players' to this community seriously. I apologize if you take offense, but I'm being honest here about what I perceive to be the case. It seems like you are attempting to punish particular players who did things with your heirloom system/character system that you don't approve of, but rather than only those players getting punished, EVERYONE is. That is ridiculous.

This is what you SHOULD do, were you to be AT ALL concerned about the health and sanity of the community:

1. FULL HEIRLOOM RESPEC, WITH NO LOSSES. People put in LOTS of time to get heirlooms they have. Stealing them again makes you a prick.

2. FULL CHARACTER RESPEC: Some people don't have time to retire and grind all the way up again to fix a build that YOU broke. They shouldn't have to. When making builds that worked before useless now, a free character respec is the ONLY decent thing to do.

P.S. You can ban me, delete my post, disagree with me, or whatever, but none of that will change the fact that 80%+ of the community feels this way. I hope that you can look past my hostile delivery, and truly comprehend the essence of this message.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: chadz on May 03, 2011, 09:00:46 am
right, back to not announcing stuff any more
(i really can't stand people talking out of their ass)
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Heroin on May 03, 2011, 09:02:07 am
right, back to not announcing stuff any more

Way to prove my point, my friend.

I suppose I should have known better than to try to talk any sense into you. It's never worked before. Anyhow, in the face of your dictatorship-like hold over things, I respectfully bow out of this conversation. Take care.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Dach on May 03, 2011, 09:03:39 am
maybe chadz could say something like 2/3 heirloom theft (which I think i'll will be, since 1/2 isn't enough for people with 20 or more heirloom that Abooozeed the gen system...)

But to a minimum of 3. So if you got say 9 heirloom or less you will stay with 3.

I think it's the fairer solution overall. Yep people with 3 heirloom will not lose anything, but I don't think they're the one chadz want to penalize for abooozing the gen system.  :wink:

Oh by the way, IF this happen like that I will still have lost 8 heirlooms overall for both heirloom theft.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: chadz on May 03, 2011, 09:05:40 am
but rather than only those players getting punished, EVERYONE is. That is ridiculous.

please quote me on that, where did you find that info.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Tzar on May 03, 2011, 09:12:00 am
chadz,

Just for the record:

I think you're an unreasonable asshat who isn't taking the contributions of your players' to this community seriously. I apologize if you take offense, but I'm being honest here about what I perceive to be the case. It seems like you are attempting to punish particular players who did things with your heirloom system/character system that you don't approve of, but rather than only those players getting punished, EVERYONE is. That is ridiculous.

This is what you SHOULD do, were you to be AT ALL concerned about the health and sanity of the community:

1. FULL HEIRLOOM RESPEC, WITH NO LOSSES. People put in LOTS of time to get heirlooms they have. Stealing them again makes you a prick.

2. FULL CHARACTER RESPEC: Some people don't have time to retire and grind all the way up again to fix a build that YOU broke. They shouldn't have to. When making builds that worked before useless now, a free character respec is the ONLY decent thing to do.

P.S. You can ban me, delete my post, disagree with me, or whatever, but none of that will change the fact that 80%+ of the community feels this way. I hope that you can look past my hostile delivery, and truly comprehend the essence of this message.

The essence of your msg sounds to me like a junkie losing his stash lmao what douche bag you are.....

Even if people did lose their heirlooms wich i rly started to give a damn about its chadz time and effort and hes mod plus this is a beta mind you he can do what ever he feels like and people who abused/retired a million times to gain a advantage via heirlooms just helped out in the progresss to balance the mod and find a hole that chadz might not had seen comming...

FYI:
About the charater respec their is a place on the website where u can click retire i think you know where it is use it the point of retire is to change or try out a new build.......

Not heirlooming a bunch of weapons to skip some stats to gain more ath or wpf ect ect so u can get that little extra advantage over none grinders....

Good patch chadz keep up the good work hope u find a way to solve this issue  :wink:
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Heroin on May 03, 2011, 09:20:48 am
please quote me on that, where did you find that info.

Everyone having heirlooms stolen = Everyone punished.
Everyone who had a hybrid build, who is no longer able to use it, and NO stat respec = Everyone is punished.

I guess I'm having difficulty seeing how you aren't seeing that this punishes pretty much everyone. The slot system ALONE tore up a lot of builds. I'm not attempting to argue with you, chadz. I have really enjoyed cRPG for a long time, and have put a LOT of time into the community. And I appreciate all that you have done to bring this community together.

However, I often disagree with your patching decisions when it comes to doing things that "punish" players on a wide scale. Personally, I have put in my time in the community, and would still like to play. But your patch broke my build, and with a new job, and various other things in my life, along with the XP nerf, I simply don't have time to retire and level a character up to 30 again. And I don't think I had one of the "broken" builds:

Level 30
STR: 21
AGI: 12
IF: 6
PS: 8
PT: 7
ATH: 4
WM: 4
WPF:
2h: 120ish
Throwing: 75

I was primarily a 2 hander, who carried around snowflakes as a sidearm for archers who tried to run away. Now, 75 isn't enough WPF for my throwing stars, apparently, even though they are a zero difficulty weapon. My targeting reticule for throwing stars/war darts is the size the reticule for throwing lances used to be.

Is the above "My fault" for having a "broken build"? I don't think it is. I think I built what I expected to be an effective character. I don't have time to retire and respec, and my character no longer really fits the bill of being effective. So, regardless of the time I've spent on your mod, and contributions to the community, I'm pretty much hung out to dry.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Nessaj on May 03, 2011, 09:24:21 am
Regarding heirlooms:

Easy solution; Heirloom limit.

Completely fair and balanced for everyone, I doubt anyone would disagree.

Do a full heirloom respec and problem solved.

When people reach the limit they would be forced to sell off a heirloom.

The maximum could (should?) be 6 heirlooms, that's generation 18, would mean 4 pieces of armor and two weapons fully heirloomed, could even set it at 5 heirlooms (generation 15) but I am sure everyone but 2hand/polearm would whine.

This way there also wouldn't be a need for the XP-nerf (while some cap SHOULD be in place though) - allowing people who have already spent a good deal amount of time on the mod to again experiment and play with new specializations.

Also grant the spec-reset, some people are at lvl 33 with now useless specializations, people who aren't grinders or anything like that they just played the same character since the beginning. If anything at least grant a respec to those AT level 33. (PS: I'm not level 33 and never were to those who might think otherwise)
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: chadz on May 03, 2011, 09:26:40 am
Everyone having heirlooms stolen = Everyone punished.
Maybe you missed my hint, because I never said that.

Also, how is that punishing? it's balancing, not punishing. If I would take your heirlooms only, that would be punishing.

There's no fucking godgiven right to have 50 heirlooms.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Tzar on May 03, 2011, 09:28:16 am
Maybe you missed my hint, because I never said that.

Also, how is that punishing? it's balancing, not punishing. If I would take your heirlooms only, that would be punishing.

There's no fucking godgiven right to have 50 heirlooms.

Dont argue with a junkie chadz its pointless  :lol:

Doenst matter how much logic you post they still wont see that there gen33 charaters and arsenal of heirlooms was a mistake in the first place...
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Seawied on May 03, 2011, 09:36:11 am
Dont argue with a junkie chadz its pointless  :lol:

Doenst matter how much logic you post they still wont see that there gen33 charaters and arsenal of heirlooms was a mistake in the first place...


You got some brown on your nose there, son.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Heroin on May 03, 2011, 09:42:33 am
Maybe you missed my hint, because I never said that.

Also, how is that punishing? it's balancing, not punishing. If I would take your heirlooms only, that would be punishing.

There's no fucking godgiven right to have 50 heirlooms.

My main concern is a character respec. Although, in the past, I was able to spend several hours a day playing, that is no longer the case. And since my builds have been made useless, I, and I'm sure MANY MANY others would very much appreciate a character respec without having to grind back to their current level. If required to retire again and grind back up from level 1 to fix my build, I likely would not be able to do it for lack of time, despite the hundreds and hundreds of hours I've already put into the community.

Heirlooms: I honestly don't think we need to steal ANYONE's heirlooms, even the guy who has 50 of them. You can only use a max of like 8 at a time anyhow. Just let people repick their heirlooms so that they can pick items that work with the new slots system, and we're good.

No need to deny a character respec and heirloom respec, or to make people have less heirlooms. Just let people respec their stuff and call it a day. You lose nothing by doing it thusly. You do not create imbalance. You simply eliminate what could be potential grind for people who have obviously already put in plenty of time in the mod, and may not(such as in my case) be able to afford such a time investment in the future.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Tzar on May 03, 2011, 09:46:26 am
He cant rly give all the old op hybrid builds a free respec while all the honest people who retired after patch gets buttfucked now can he???

I just retired 2 days ago to try a new build and im all rdy lvl 26 mind you im only Gen 3 why dont u just soak it up like a man and retire too and quit demanding respecs like a spoiled brat??


Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Nessaj on May 03, 2011, 09:53:47 am
If there's a trade functionality to be introduced in the future we do need limitations on heirlooms, which means if someone has 50 heirlooms its too bad you'll have to pick 5-6 in total. It is both fair and balanced and who need more heirlooms than that? Also a cap on XP as I referenced above IS needed to ensure people don't just spit out heirlooms for trading every day, therefore an idea could be to also introduce a max heirloom creation limit, for example 1 every week -- or perhaps every second week depending on if the XP-gen nerf would be reevaluated.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Vibe on May 03, 2011, 09:55:15 am
Maybe you missed my hint, because I never said that.

Also, how is that punishing? it's balancing, not punishing. If I would take your heirlooms only, that would be punishing.

There's no fucking godgiven right to have 50 heirlooms.

I like where you are going with this and I'm sure there are a lot of others too.
You shouldn't pay too much attention to the whiners on these forums though, if it's not one thing they complain about it's another.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Heroin on May 03, 2011, 10:00:42 am
I just retired 2 days ago to try a new build and im all rdy lvl 26 mind you im only Gen 3 why dont u just soak it up like a man and retire too and quit demanding respecs like a spoiled brat??

Not everyone can spend 8+ hours a day playing cRPG to grind up to fix a problem that we did not create. Some of us have families, jobs, etc.

Done responding to this thread. It's becoming childish, and there is too much brown-nosing going on for my tastes.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Casimir on May 03, 2011, 10:01:18 am
Or enjoy playing the game rather than looking at its as time you have invested to achieve the maximum level.

Heirlooms and such likes should be rewards not a target or an route to advantage over others.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Tzar on May 03, 2011, 11:28:28 am
Not everyone can spend 8+ hours a day playing cRPG to grind up to fix a problem that we did not create. Some of us have families, jobs, etc.

Done responding to this thread. It's becoming childish, and there is too much brown-nosing going on for my tastes.

Well i go to school each day and have exam soon so no i dont get to become lvl 31 anytime soon but gettin lvl 26 takes no time tbh  offcourse anything above 26 takes ages...

Thank god your done responding since none of your post holds any logic at all and is nothing but rants also talking about haveing a job familie ect ect is rly a joke since i doubt anyone with 10+ gen have time for that..

Also being gen 3 i doubt im ever gonna be able to play as many hours as u did in my life time... lmao


You got some brown on your nose there, son.

Im so sry for agreeing with chadz about not making this a free wow clone.....

Ill stfu up now and let you kids continue your rants.....
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Malaclypse on May 03, 2011, 11:43:42 am
There's no fucking godgiven right to have 50 heirlooms.

50 heirs. 50 generations of sons and daughters born. That's like two millenia in Calradia. Of course with the generation bonuses factored in, time would be slowly, steadily speeding up for each new descendant. Wild.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Centurion on May 03, 2011, 01:00:52 pm
although we ensure that it is completely fair this time

ok well pre-pre-patch i was gen 4 and when you stole my hielooms i went down to 1 on bnoth my chars which is really annoying still today. if u were to steal more it will only tick me off more and many others BECAUSE i am a high gen. im gen 15 due to the fact that i have over 1000 hours in your mod. the gameplay has also seemed to slow down and due to this and the buginess of melee (which im sure your fixing) half my clan has gotten bored and stopped playing crpg when we have been planning for strat to come back for a coouppl months now. i would be fine with only 1 hierloom per 2 or 3 retirements but not another theft i deserve them for the time i have invested in your mod. i dont see how i theft will be fair and go ahead and say that im blinded by my gens or something.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Zergmar on May 03, 2011, 01:08:04 pm
Not everyone can spend 8+ hours a day playing cRPG to grind up to fix a problem that we did not create. Some of us have families, jobs, etc.

Done responding to this thread. It's becoming childish, and there is too much brown-nosing going on for my tastes.

If you wanna be treated like a customer you should play an MMO, in which they are paid for being nice to you
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Kafein on May 03, 2011, 01:28:26 pm
I don't think it's a good idea to see people that have (lucky for them) grinded a lot prepatch and now have a fair amount of heirlooms that  others don't have a single chance to get anytime soon, because of the xp nerf. What I'm trying to say is that prepatch generation <<< postpatch generation in time spent.

Instead of a heirloom respec, what about a generation theft ? Your current generation is divided by 3 and truncated up, everyone looses all their heirlooms and gets as much heirloom points to spend as the number of generation they have after this process. So grinders aren't punished for their grinding, it's more or less like if they played as much but postpatch, earning less xp per tick. Furthermore, granting heirlooms based on the generation will clear the issues with the first heirloom theft and heirloom selling errors (people had less heirlooms than generations).
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Magikarp on May 03, 2011, 01:33:34 pm
I voted yes, I likez free stuffz.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Torp on May 03, 2011, 01:55:54 pm
I really dont like the fact that you both nerf our exp bonus down to almost nothing and then plan on taking our heirlooms...
I've worked hard (lol, pressed a few buttons, but for a long time though) to get my heirlooms and my former exp bonus, and having to do it all or most of it all over again is just pure shit.

I have nothing against balancing, but your way of balancing is nerfing everything till it matches the worst item in the database, and that policy makes everyone angry as everyone's itms gets nerfed... why not buff the bad stuff instead?

Instead of stealing thew high-gen heirlooms, make it easier for new players to get heirlooms - noone will be angry.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Ecko on May 03, 2011, 03:03:50 pm
Many people are not reading my post....this is not meant to be a troll topic. Either +1 or -1 and vote. If you want to discuss how much you hate the mod you can go post on the taleworlds boards where no one will read it.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: La Makina on May 03, 2011, 03:58:28 pm
Instead of a heirloom respec, what about a generation theft ?

The developpers plan a full reset of all the characters (the big black out: all levels, generations, gold, heirlooms back to 0) when the version 1.00 of c-RPG will be finally released (planned for August 2072) :wink:

I am in love with the new armors, purely awesome! I might never use my heirloomed native armor anymore, it looks so... pre-patch. So, yes, I would really like an heirloom reset and I am ready to pay the cost.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Gristle on May 03, 2011, 05:32:58 pm
+1 Every hybrid build probably needs a respec, not just players with Sniper Crossbows and Huscarl shields.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Banok on May 03, 2011, 05:45:40 pm
Connection anyone?

right, back to not announcing stuff any more
(i really can't stand people talking out of their ass)

Maybe you missed my hint, because I never said that.

To be honest chadz people "talk out their ass" because you give out vague hints and not remotely concise info, which understandably causes people to draw different conclusions (even absurd ones).

I'm not necessarily complaining or justifying herion's whingey posts. I understand you enjoy giving out hints rather than facts, but I'm just pointing out misinterpretation and misinformation are inevitable.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Keshian on May 03, 2011, 05:52:45 pm
He cant rly give all the old op hybrid builds a free respec while all the honest people who retired after patch gets buttfucked now can he???

I just retired 2 days ago to try a new build and im all rdy lvl 26 mind you im only Gen 3 why dont u just soak it up like a man and retire too and quit demanding respecs like a spoiled brat??

Wow, what self-righteous crap.  How is it dishonest to play the game, should people who play more never retire because you can only play enough to get to generation 3.  I and many others enjoyed playing the game (still enjoy it) and now you try to say its dishonest because you played less and think it fair that players who played the most should be punished the most (do you come from a socialist country?), while not affecting you in any way.  Its not FAIR to do heirloom limit to the people who are over the limit while you are still under so unaffected, the essence of FAIRNESS is to not single out one group of people as compared to another, which was why the universal 1/3 last time was the closest thing to fair you could find.  Plus you do realize when you hit that limit and you try going any level above 32 with the xp nerf that at that moment you can never modify your character in any way for the better, you've reached the maximum development of your character and the rpg elements disappear from it.  I can only assume you are another one of those people who blame heirlooms for why you lose fights instead of actually getting better at manual blcoking, feinting, chambering (look at the stats, +1 speed, +2 damage is not going to cause a win or loss in a duel). 

Under the new xp system its hard enough to level up, this heirloom trading system idea will be nonexistent with another heirloom theft and with how difficult it is to get new heirlooms.  Why not just keep the heirlooms and then when the trading system is in place you can actually see an active trading community.  With a heirloom theft/respec all you will see is everyone with their exact heirloom they want and no one ever trading them away for fear of never getting them back because its so hard to replace them.  And yes, I had planned on trading away half my heirlooms, with a heirloom theft/respec I most likely will never trade a heirloom.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Gristle on May 03, 2011, 07:06:49 pm
I don't think many people have even considered the trading system as an option. I know I hadn't. I actually forgot all about it. You're right, If we had the ability to trade, there really would be no reason to reset heirlooms.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Siboire on May 03, 2011, 07:18:04 pm
Wow, what self-righteous crap.  How is it dishonest to play the game, should people who play more never retire because you can only play enough to get to generation 3.  I and many others enjoyed playing the game (still enjoy it) and now you try to say its dishonest because you played less and think it fair that players who played the most should be punished the most (do you come from a socialist country?), while not affecting you in any way.  Its not FAIR to do heirloom limit to the people who are over the limit while you are still under so unaffected, the essence of FAIRNESS is to not single out one group of people as compared to another, which was why the universal 1/3 last time was the closest thing to fair you could find.  Plus you do realize when you hit that limit and you try going any level above 32 with the xp nerf that at that moment you can never modify your character in any way for the better, you've reached the maximum development of your character and the rpg elements disappear from it.  I can only assume you are another one of those people who blame heirlooms for why you lose fights instead of actually getting better at manual blcoking, feinting, chambering (look at the stats, +1 speed, +2 damage is not going to cause a win or loss in a duel). 

You sometimes make me rage when I fight you, but I'm happy to see that we have the same ideas and opinions :)
I'm only gen 9 with like half my heirlooms sold due to pre-pre-patch when money was hard to get, so now with like 5 heirlooms left I hope I won't lose any. I would not really mind to lose heirlooms if the xp was like pre-patch but the xp nerf was too much. Now I feel like I'm more grinding than pre-patch due to being peasant way longuer before reaching a decent lvl and being able to fight decently.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on May 03, 2011, 07:20:51 pm
If heirlooms make such little difference in fights, then 1) why did you get them in the first place, and 2) why do you care if you lose them?
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Tzar on May 03, 2011, 07:53:03 pm
People just use the the retire on the website and grind up to lvl 31 like u done a million times before this patch and stop demanding a free ride to lvl 31....

we all know it sucks that your perfected builds along with your sick heirlooms have taken a huge nerf hit but thats still the point of this beta/patch to even out the playing field and balance..

You may be right that i havent played as much as you but neither have the majority of c-RPG players.

Clearly you must have gotten it trough your thick skulls by now that chadz didnt want hes mod to end up the way it did pre-patch.

4 weeks before this patch i had all rdy given up my hybrid because i knew this was comming and so did alot of others i been running around with only 1 main weapon all along.

Btw chadz have u seen my suggestion about the Crossbow? you rly need to make it 2slots before rambo returns and we will have to wait for next patch to fix it.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,4679.0.html



Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Keshian on May 03, 2011, 07:56:42 pm
If heirlooms make such little difference in fights, then 1) why did you get them in the first place, and 2) why do you care if you lose them?

They add a role-playing element thats been steadily disappearing with each patch and its nice sense of yes I've heirloomed my favorite equipment and its unique to me and my character and therefore different from every other guy using the same exact weapon or the same armor.  My heirloomed body armor is far from the best (mameluke mail) but it allows me have armor geared toward middle-eastern themed character, yet to have closer to the same armor as all the unoriginal black armor/gothic plate and armet users min/maxing.  It didn't give an advantage but put me on closer to even footing with people that are not role-playing with their armor and equipment.  I used the Miadao and Daodao (chinese swords) because they are the closest looking to middle-eastern curved swords among the 2hed swords, I use the khergit/strong bows because they look more middle-eastern then warbow/longbow.  Heirlooming adds just enough to not sacrifice role-playing for functionality.

However, xbows/bows is the one area where heirlooming makes a huge difference, not as OP, but with all the continual nerfs to ranged, to make them viable classes against the increasing assortment of polearm/2hers/1hersshiedlers.

I am  2h/archer right now with no plans to retire and many of my heirlooms I planned on trading away because they don't fit this class or my middle eastern style, but with a heirloom theft I would be only heirlooming a bow and a set of arrows (have to if want viability) and mail gauntlets (go with any armor) and much of the connection with my theme is lost where it doesn't really matter which armor or 2her I use.  Its no longer my unique masterwork miadao with lordly mameluke mail, its just another piece of inferior armor and weapon I can choose to use or I can buy gothic plate with a winged helm and not gimp myself for the sake of role-playing.

Think of it this way, you saw so many people using side sword/military pick/elegant poleaxe/danish greatsword pre-patch, I never heirloomed those things even though they were the current OP theme, rather I heirloomed non-OP weapons that fit my theme so they could stand on closer to even footing with the unbalanced weapons.  And to say just make all weapons balanced is not possible, already people are shifting toward Great Long Axes, Bec de Corbins, and Highland Claymores with the new patch.  Also, one of the reasons I am against a respec too because people who heirloomed based on role playing are not going to change their triple-heirloomed stones, only people who heirloomed FlavorOfTheMonth weapons will switch heirlooms and it will be the new FOTM.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Felagunda on May 04, 2011, 12:14:39 am
My question is though how many hierlooms because  after this most recent patch IO have 5 hierlooms missing.  Was that normal?  were hierlooms supposed to be just gone or down graded?
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: rustyspoon on May 04, 2011, 12:55:35 am
They add a role-playing element thats been steadily disappearing with each patch and its nice sense of yes I've heirloomed my favorite equipment and its unique to me and my character and therefore different from every other guy using the same exact weapon or the same armor.  My heirloomed body armor is far from the best (mameluke mail) but it allows me have armor geared toward middle-eastern themed character, yet to have closer to the same armor as all the unoriginal black armor/gothic plate and armet users min/maxing.  It didn't give an advantage but put me on closer to even footing with people that are not role-playing with their armor and equipment.  I used the Miadao and Daodao (chinese swords) because they are the closest looking to middle-eastern curved swords among the 2hed swords, I use the khergit/strong bows because they look more middle-eastern then warbow/longbow.  Heirlooming adds just enough to not sacrifice role-playing for functionality.

However, xbows/bows is the one area where heirlooming makes a huge difference, not as OP, but with all the continual nerfs to ranged, to make them viable classes against the increasing assortment of polearm/2hers/1hersshiedlers.

I am  2h/archer right now with no plans to retire and many of my heirlooms I planned on trading away because they don't fit this class or my middle eastern style, but with a heirloom theft I would be only heirlooming a bow and a set of arrows (have to if want viability) and mail gauntlets (go with any armor) and much of the connection with my theme is lost where it doesn't really matter which armor or 2her I use.  Its no longer my unique masterwork miadao with lordly mameluke mail, its just another piece of inferior armor and weapon I can choose to use or I can buy gothic plate with a winged helm and not gimp myself for the sake of role-playing.

Think of it this way, you saw so many people using side sword/military pick/elegant poleaxe/danish greatsword pre-patch, I never heirloomed those things even though they were the current OP theme, rather I heirloomed non-OP weapons that fit my theme so they could stand on closer to even footing with the unbalanced weapons.  And to say just make all weapons balanced is not possible, already people are shifting toward Great Long Axes, Bec de Corbins, and Highland Claymores with the new patch.  Also, one of the reasons I am against a respec too because people who heirloomed based on role playing are not going to change their triple-heirloomed stones, only people who heirloomed FlavorOfTheMonth weapons will switch heirlooms and it will be the new FOTM.

As someone who only ever heirloomed crappy gear (because I like how it looks) I totally agree with the above. Some of us heirloom crap because we like to use it and don't want to be too far below everyone else. +1
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Devestater on May 04, 2011, 01:01:11 am
right, back to not announcing stuff any more
(i really can't stand people talking out of their ass)

Why do you act this way? Why punish people that have kept your mod alive? I dont understand or agree with your reasoning. I know that I am an NA player and you could prob care less about us... but we do make up a good chunk of the population and was expanding until Strat went down for over 4 months. The point is that if you punish or as you say "balance" all of our hard work... then people will lose interest! I would hope that you would like to hear suggestions from your community without getting upset because not everyone agrees with you.

ps. BTW TSAR you are a brown noser. Nobody like an ass kisser. Good luck with life dude.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Huey Newton on May 04, 2011, 01:02:15 am
As someone who only ever heirloomed crappy gear (because I like how it looks) I totally agree with the above. Some of us heirloom crap because we like to use it and don't want to be too far below everyone else. +1
agreed
you and I both used the italian sword when the long espada and side sword were clearly better
we get style points

people who didn't use the hottest or newest or most OP weapons shouldn't be penalized.

my 2 cents
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: joshko on May 04, 2011, 04:25:47 am
Why do you act this way? Why punish people that have kept your mod alive? I dont understand or agree with your reasoning. I know that I am an NA player and you could prob care less about us... but we do make up a good chunk of the population and was expanding until Strat went down for over 4 months. The point is that if you punish or as you say "balance" all of our hard work... then people will lose interest! I would hope that you would like to hear suggestions from your community without getting upset because not everyone agrees with you.

ps. BTW TSAR you are a brown noser. Nobody like an ass kisser. Good luck with life dude.

Maybe because chadz doesn't owe him anything, and doesn't have to put up with that kind of bullshit talk from any one who is enjoying the mod he's worked so hard on for free.

Seriously people do you really think you're entitled to this mod? Much less a few heirlooms or a class/build. Get your heads out of your asses.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Heroin on May 04, 2011, 04:45:27 am
Seriously people do you really think you're entitled to this mod?

I bought warband, so yes, I do. People can be banned from the servers and databases, but with a fairly simple change to a couple files, one could host their own database and server. Mods are, by their very nature, open source. Other people assist chadz in the development and balancing of this mod, population aside. Anyone with modding/coding skill and html knowledge could take the existing c-RPG code and duplicate it, making a new database to draw information from, and to store the code. This hypothetical person could then take the game in the direction of popular opinion, balancing and making changes that the community WANTS. They could also post a real changelog, and accept feedback from the community in a mature way.

Even if a mod is not announced as being open source, few modders have any way to stop others from "borrowing" their code to create something different.

Should chadz be commended for the work he has done in bringing this mod to the public? Absolutely.

Should anyone assume that the community will remain healthy, let alone "his community", if he constantly goes against popular opinion with dictator-like enthusiasm? I wouldn't.

Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: joshko on May 04, 2011, 05:08:05 am
I bought warband, so yes, I do. People can be banned from the servers and databases, but with a fairly simple change to a couple files, one could host their own database and server. Mods are, by their very nature, open source. Other people assist chadz in the development and balancing of this mod, population aside. Anyone with modding/coding skill and html knowledge could take the existing c-RPG code and duplicate it, making a new database to draw information from, and to store the code. This hypothetical person could then take the game in the direction of popular opinion, balancing and making changes that the community WANTS. They could also post a real changelog, and accept feedback from the community in a mature way.

Even if a mod is not announced as being open source, few modders have any way to stop others from "borrowing" their code to create something different.

Should chadz be commended for the work he has done in bringing this mod to the public? Absolutely.

Should anyone assume that the community will remain healthy, let alone "his community", if he constantly goes against popular opinion with dictator-like enthusiasm? I wouldn't.


You bought Warband so you're entitled to Native.

Sp far I haven't seen a positive or supportive comment coming from you

Does trying to balance a mod justify insulting him?
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Heroin on May 04, 2011, 05:19:36 am

You bought Warband so you're entitled to Native and all publically available mods.

Sp far I haven't seen a positive or supportive comment coming from you

Does trying to balance a mod justify insulting him?

Fixed the first line. As far as the second, I could point out positive comments, even if only in this thread, that you seem to ignore.

As far as the "insults" go, you're right. I could, and should have censored myself with my original post. For not doing so, I offer my apologies to both chadz and the community as a whole.

But that does not change the facts. And this is the internet, ladies and gentlemen. People are vulgar, crude, and blunt. Grow a thicker skin and look at the facts rather than the method of delivery.

EDIT: Bolded apology so that those who seem to only skim posts wouldn't miss it.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Devestater on May 04, 2011, 05:26:27 am
Maybe because chadz doesn't owe him anything, and doesn't have to put up with that kind of bullshit talk from any one who is enjoying the mod he's worked so hard on for free.

Seriously people do you really think you're entitled to this mod? Much less a few heirlooms or a class/build. Get your heads out of your asses.
WOW another ass kisser... You are wrong he owes us the right to give our opinion. So give yours and stop whining about mine. Just because chadz created the mod does not mean that he can butcher it without hearing his followers voices.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: joshko on May 04, 2011, 05:30:27 am
Fixed the first line. As far as the second, I could point out positive comments, even if only in this thread, that you seem to ignore.

As far as the "insults" go, you're right. I could, and should have censored myself with my original post. For not doing so, I offer my apologies to both chadz and the community as a whole.

But that does not change the facts. And this is the internet, ladies and gentlemen. People are vulgar, crude, and blunt. Grow a thicker skin and look at the facts rather than the method of delivery.

EDIT: Bolded apology so that those who seem to only skim posts wouldn't miss it.

Pretty sad it took someone calling you out to get you to apologize.

It maybe the internet but that doesn't justify scumbaggery. I treat and talk to people online the same way as I do in real life, and I expect the same of other people.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Devestater on May 04, 2011, 05:32:05 am
Many people are not reading my post....this is not meant to be a troll topic. Either +1 or -1 and vote. If you want to discuss how much you hate the mod you can go post on the taleworlds boards where no one will read it.
Agreed... Just hope some things can be saved.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Heroin on May 04, 2011, 06:19:01 am
Pretty sad it took someone calling you out to get you to apologize.

It maybe the internet but that doesn't justify scumbaggery. I treat and talk to people online the same way as I do in real life, and I expect the same of other people.

I would have said the same thing in person. It took a lot of buildup for that to happen. It wasn't just the poor way in which this specific thread/issue was handled. It has been an accumulation of resentment that was built up and just happened to be released in this thread. If that same thing happened face to face, my reaction would have been about the same. But again, this is the internet. People in general are less apt to be polite, and all of us should learn to deal with that.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Native_ATS on May 04, 2011, 02:13:34 pm
I would have said the same thing in person. It took a lot of buildup for that to happen. It wasn't just the poor way in which this specific thread/issue was handled. It has been an accumulation of resentment that was built up and just happened to be released in this thread. If that same thing happened face to face, my reaction would have been about the same. But again, this is the internet. People in general are less apt to be polite, and all of us should learn to deal with that.
ugh its true, over the net people become troll  :shock:
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: NuberT on May 04, 2011, 02:14:01 pm
Maybe you missed my hint, because I never said that.

Also, how is that punishing? it's balancing, not punishing. If I would take your heirlooms only, that would be punishing.

There's no fucking godgiven right to have 50 heirlooms.

Before the first big patch you told us we should go for gens and heirlooms and many did. After the patch 2/3 of looms were stolen. People kept grinding to get their heirlooms back and there was nothing else to do as we didnt need a good char for strategus as it was offline so we kept grinding. And for sure I would have stopt retiring two months ago when I was gen 16, if I had known there would be no benefit for further retirement and heirloomed weapon bonus would be cut. I would be lvl34 by now. I am not angry or whinging but it would be nice for future patches, if you or the other devs would tell us what they are going to plan so we dont get fucked every time  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: POOPHAMMER on May 04, 2011, 04:12:14 pm
I voted no. This does not have any impact on my build so I do not care. Suck it crappybuildbundle of stickss
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Espu on May 04, 2011, 04:35:30 pm
..but with a fairly simple change to a couple files, one could host their own database and server. Mods are, by their very nature, open source.[..] Anyone with modding/coding skill and html knowledge could take the existing c-RPG code and duplicate it, making a new database to draw information from, and to store the code. This hypothetical person could then take the game in the direction of popular opinion, balancing and making changes that the community WANTS.

If making an improved copy of cRPG was so easy, I wonder why no one else is doing it. Mercenaries mod is trying but with pretty limited success so far. We shall see what comes out of that.

Balancing game by "community opinion" does not work, especially when your definition of "community" apparently means the loudest 5% of the player base. Most people lobby for their own preferred play style and have wildly differing opinions about what direction the game should go to (hardcore/casual, melee/ranged, level cap/no cap, gold&xp gain rate, maps, game types etc. etc.). Community opinion is of course taken into account when making balance/other changes, but making everyone happy with every change is simply impossible.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: POOPHAMMER on May 04, 2011, 04:45:12 pm
If making an improved copy of cRPG was so easy, I wonder why no one else is doing it. Mercenaries mod is trying but with pretty limited success so far. We shall see what comes out of that.

Balancing game by "community opinion" does not work, especially when your definition of "community" apparently means the loudest 5% of the player base. Most people lobby for their own preferred play style and have wildly differing opinions about what direction the game should go to (hardcore/casual, melee/ranged, level cap/no cap, gold&xp gain rate, maps, game types etc. etc.). Community opinion is of course taken into account when making balance/other changes, but making everyone happy with every change is simply impossible.

I think he missed the part where you would need the server source code, because I am sure that the cRPG database does not take submissions from the clients running the cRPG mod, but it takes it from the server running the daemon for the cRPG mod. Taking a source code like this and just making it your own isnt that easy. You would have to know what the actual database server is doing in order to just copy it. Making your own mod would just be easier than trying to figure out all of the odds and ends of someone else's coding out.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Heroin on May 04, 2011, 06:44:12 pm
especially when your definition of "community" apparently means the loudest 5% of the player base.

I never understand how people end up coming up with this crap. My term "community" was referring to the results of the poll attached to this thread, and had nothing to do with the "loudest 5%".

As a matter of fact, it seems like the loudest 5% that you're referring to are mostly trolling me in this thread at this point.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Devestater on May 04, 2011, 11:53:45 pm
OKAY! I think everyone got to see the opinions now (even though it looks like the ones for the repicks have supported facts). But either way I think that enough has been said and maybe we should just post for a bump only. Its turning into a trolling match that is not needed. Hopefully chadz has read all of this and can make his decision accordingly. In the end it is his decision no matter what we say. Good luck to everyone. GET PEOPLE TO VOTE ON THIS THREAD!!!
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Keshian on May 05, 2011, 12:37:39 am
OKAY! I think everyone got to see the opinions now (even though it looks like the ones for the repicks have supported facts). But either way I think that enough has been said and maybe we should just post for a bump only. Its turning into a trolling match that is not needed. Hopefully chadz has read all of this and can make his decision accordingly. In the end it is his decision no matter what we say. Good luck to everyone. GET PEOPLE TO VOTE ON THIS THREAD!!!

What supported facts?? lol, this entire thread is just a series of opinions about a game and what the definition of fairness is.  The original pollw as for respec, but if the voters had known that would necessarily would include a nother round of heirloom theft, most of thoses yeses would be noes as they were voted before that piece of news came out. (though people should have realized it from the last heirloom theft).
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: San on May 05, 2011, 12:46:02 am
I'd be happier if after a patch, some more of the changed game mechanics are released.

I still see people questioning wpf requirements for melee and throwing weapons, and things like that.
Even if we respec, my build will probably be the same but I would need to be more careful about what points I put into wpf.

I also prefer balance by buffing/changing the broken aspect instead of nerfing everything unless those things were beyond broken.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Devestater on May 05, 2011, 05:23:30 am
What supported facts?? lol, this entire thread is just a series of opinions about a game and what the definition of fairness is.  The original pollw as for respec, but if the voters had known that would necessarily would include a nother round of heirloom theft, most of thoses yeses would be noes as they were voted before that piece of news came out. (though people should have realized it from the last heirloom theft).
I would hate to lose heirloom points, but would take a loss rather than keep useless nerfed ones. Think a lot of people know how chadz works and this info you speak of would not have changed their votes.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Centurion on May 05, 2011, 12:40:17 pm
I would hate to lose heirloom points, but would take a loss rather than keep useless nerfed ones. Think a lot of people know how chadz works and this info you speak of would not have changed their votes.
it would have changed my vote
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Torp on May 05, 2011, 03:39:46 pm
Tbh, i'd say the big patch made retiring the only viable option as most people dont want to only lvl once every month after hitting 31.
Therefore retiring was the natural choice when reaching lvl 30 in order to feel some progress again, and that's why i dont think it should be punished.

chadz basically asked us to retire all the time (and tehrefore heirlooming all the time), and then he shouldnt punish us for doing it.

It has nothing to do with abusing a broken system this time
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Ecko on May 05, 2011, 05:39:22 pm
Dunno why so many people voted no...no one has anything to lose with a repick
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Keshian on May 05, 2011, 06:57:14 pm
Dunno why so many people voted no...no one has anything to lose with a repick

You did notice that chadz said a repick was only possible with a new round of heirloom theft  (many of those noes came after that bit of news came out) and no character respec, so yes a lot of people have plenty to lose.  Would have been nicer to just set up a heirloom trading system and use the heirlooms in trade, but now with a heirloom reset everyone will have less than they had before.  If you started your poll again now with a choice between no respec of heirlooms or a nother round of heirloom theft with respec your poll would probably be mostly noes.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: chadz on May 05, 2011, 06:59:12 pm
a repick/stat redistribution leads to less diversity.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Duster on May 05, 2011, 07:03:11 pm
a repick/stat redistribution leads to less diversity.

Less diversity than if people quit because their build is jacked and they don't want to grind forever to even get a viable character back?

Come on.


Also, people don't quit, they just retire.

You're quite wrong, I know of several people just in ATS at least taking abreak until this mess is sorted out.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Keshian on May 05, 2011, 07:04:11 pm
a repick/stat redistribution leads to less diversity.

+1, true words.  Rather than taking weeks/months for people to filter into the new OP class/build/weapon heirloom it can happen overnight.


Also, people don't quit, they just retire.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Reinhardt on May 05, 2011, 07:20:19 pm
So.. let me get this straight. You're letting us re-pick pretty much 3 heirlooms out of our 10 or so? That's not helpful at all, honestly.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Keshian on May 05, 2011, 07:25:21 pm
So.. let me get this straight. You're letting us re-pick pretty much 3 heirlooms out of our 10 or so? That's not helpful at all, honestly.

I know, wouldn't it be better if I traded you my masterwork bec (so tired of that thing) for your masterwork side sword (need some new 1hers as archer)  or if I gave you a champion cataphract horse with heavy great long axe for your masterwork bastard sword and 10,000 gold??  It would also keep some incentive to retire as people now heirlooming particularly desirable heirlooms (like new items) could get 2-3 heirlooms to compensate from those of us not retiring anymore.  You could trade with alts, you could trade with clanmates.  I don't see how this original plan by chadz isn't better than heirloom theft with respec where the amount of heirlooms rapidly decreases along with the incentive to retire.

I had already planned on trading away half my heirlooms as they are either the wrong class for my build or don't fit my character's role-playing theme.  Such a market would not thrive on a new feeling of scarcity created by a heirloom theft.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Torp on May 05, 2011, 07:27:47 pm
I'm still saying that chadz encouraged us to retire and tehrefore get heirlooms with the lvl 31 cap big-patch. He shouldnt punish us for doing it then.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Kherr on May 05, 2011, 07:51:18 pm
a repick/stat redistribution leads to less diversity.
Why does a repick leads to less diversity?

Hm... do you want to force the people to use their heirloomed stuff?
The base stats of my heirloomed weapon were nerfed. So I dont use it any more... heirloomed or not.

Edit:
If the weapons are balanced a repick should not be a problem.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Keshian on May 05, 2011, 07:53:04 pm
Why does a repick leads to less diversity?

Hm... do you want to force the people to use their heirloomed stuff?
The base stats of my heirloomed weapon were nerfed. So I dont use it any more... heirloomed or not.

Than trade it away with a new heirloom trading system, because a heirloom reset also means a heirloom theft.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Kherr on May 05, 2011, 08:02:14 pm
Than trade it away with a new heirloom trading system, because a heirloom reset also means a heirloom theft.
1. I dont know how the trading system will work. Let us assume I can exchange a heirloomed weapon with another player. I cannot be sure that another player will exchange his weapon with my weapon. Imho the main problem is the weapon balance. If the weapons are balanced you will have a diversity and you will be able to exchange your weapon. But than you will not have a problem with a repick. If the weapons are balanced the players will not choose the same weapon.

2. I also dont know how a reset would affect the amount of my heirlooms. Nobody knows numbers.
Title: Re: Patch Poll
Post by: Keshian on May 05, 2011, 08:16:45 pm
Well this thread needs to be closed, the heirloom/gen recalc ahs already been done.