cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Elio on March 03, 2013, 01:44:47 pm

Title: Cheating textures
Post by: Elio on March 03, 2013, 01:44:47 pm
Will you do something against this :

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The launcher use hash to check files to update so why don't you ban these shits?
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Latvian on March 03, 2013, 01:49:28 pm
whats wrong with colourfull arrows?
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Belatu on March 03, 2013, 01:53:51 pm
they also could have a look to actual arrow texture, archers are getting blind in real life :(
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Rhekimos on March 03, 2013, 02:34:55 pm
Is getting rid of colorful arrows worth destroying other fun improvements like the heirloom texture mod?

http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/new-heirloom-models-%28and-web-gui%29/

Or the Pew Pew mod? http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/the-p-e-w-project/
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Kafein on March 03, 2013, 02:37:48 pm
Is getting rid of colorful arrows worth destroying other fun improvements like the heirloom texture mod?

http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/new-heirloom-models-%28and-web-gui%29/

Or the Pew Pew mod? http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/the-p-e-w-project/

No need to check all files, obviously. Some like bushes and arrows are one big issue, but most others are not.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Rhekimos on March 03, 2013, 02:45:50 pm
No need to check all files, obviously. Some like bushes and arrows are one big issue, but most others are not.

If such functionality is built-in, it's most often default-deny. Which is a real bummer for innovation.

But  true, it could be done to only check some things.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Belatu on March 03, 2013, 04:50:04 pm
you can ban me if you want, but I have one arrowmod installed not because i want to kill more or whatever, just because in five minutes my eyes are crying and when I stop playing after 2 hours I cant see nothing. Also due to graphical configurations I dont have any idea where my arrows are landing.
But if that exposed before is intended just let me know it
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: DaveUKR on March 03, 2013, 05:05:39 pm
http://forum.meleegaming.com/resolved-issues/%28suggestion%29-built-in-anticheat/msg657468/#msg657468
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Elio on March 03, 2013, 05:22:06 pm
At fifteen, I had the will to  learn ; at thirty, I could stand ; at forty, I had no  doubts ; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding ;  at sixty, my ears were opened ; at seventy, I could  do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the  square.

Mod is dead
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Moncho on March 03, 2013, 05:25:03 pm
At fifteen, I had the will to  learn ; at thirty, I could stand ; at forty, I had no  doubts ; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding ;  at sixty, my ears were opened ; at seventy, I could  do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the  square.

Got to love the forum censor. Now stop lying, mod is alive and kicking.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Rumblood on March 03, 2013, 07:14:14 pm
Will you do something against this :

(click to show/hide)

You are using hash to check files for update so why don't you ban these shits?

Who are you targeting for ban? Ranged who mod so they can see where their missiles land, or melee who mod so they can see and dodge missiles easier? Both? Invisible missiles are a bad idea in terms of gameplay at any rate. They used to be visible, and in point of fact, the developers once posted the "how to" on making them more visible again. I don't see a problem in either case.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Elio on March 03, 2013, 07:33:53 pm
Who are you targeting for ban? Ranged who mod so they can see where their missiles land, or melee who mod so they can see and dodge missiles easier?
Sure but it's called cheat (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cheat).

Quote
(intransitive) To violate rules in order to gain advantage from a situation.

I am wrong?!
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 03, 2013, 07:51:44 pm
I am wrong?!


What rules are they violating?
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Uther Pendragon on March 03, 2013, 07:54:51 pm
The "Common sense" rule?  :rolleyes:

Oh sure, let me add a big fat spike going out of every armor so they can never suprise me from a corner, and lets make each wall half-transparent... Yes, my mod is now ready!
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 03, 2013, 08:42:56 pm
The "Common sense" rule?  :rolleyes:

Oh sure, let me add a big fat spike going out of every armor so they can never suprise me from a corner, and lets make each wall half-transparent... Yes, my mod is now ready!


With the new WSE launcher and activating those ridiculous bright neon red circles for enemies, coupled with the turning on the default native "direction arrows" that alert you to the nearest enemy... You don't have to do anything to detect enemies, especially when coupled with TS Ghosting.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Rumblood on March 04, 2013, 03:18:08 am
The "Common sense" rule?  :rolleyes:
Sure but it's called cheat (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cheat).

I am wrong?!

Developers once posted the "how to" on making them more visible.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Vodner on March 04, 2013, 06:15:47 am
I'm not entirely certain why arrows were adjusted to be harder to see in the first place. Experienced archers who already know the trajectory of their bows are unlikely to be affected, and new players who could benefit from being able to see their arrows in flight probably won't see the thread explaining how to make them more visible again.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Elio on March 04, 2013, 07:22:26 am

Poll added, now make your choice.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Elmokki on March 04, 2013, 11:47:18 am
It's ludicrously easy to make arrows pink or whatever. I did it some time ago for shit and giggles. I guess it does help to make especially those hard to notice weapons pink and pink projectiles definitely help finding them. I just can't be arsed to do such stuff since that shit looks ugly as fuck.

But indeed, while it's definitely a form of cheating it's not a huge deal and forbidding it would forbid all "legit" custom textures, which may or may not be a shame: I don't use any . Anyway, regardless of the poll I bet nothing will happen.

Being able to make bushes and whatever invisible is a huge shame, but if someone wants to play with a pink spear and shoot pink arrows, I don't care. If the devs can be arsed to do something to the mod, rather add a new gameplay mode or something.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Vovka on March 04, 2013, 12:12:28 pm
I love rainbow  :rolleyes: gimme link pls where i can get that arrows  :P pls  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Segd on March 04, 2013, 12:23:03 pm
http://forum.meleegaming.com/beginner's-help-and-guides/mods-compatible-with-crpg-(updated-sticky)/
Quote
Old arrow/bolt flying model

For me, and for a whole lot of people, new "realistic" arrows are rather impossible to track in flight. Therefore here's how you can bring back the old, "blurred" and much larger version of flying projectiles.

Is it hack?  :rolleyes:

Also:
Some singleplayer mod:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: BlueKnight on March 04, 2013, 02:15:56 pm
Also:
Some starwars mod:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Tuetensuppe on March 04, 2013, 03:47:32 pm
im not sure what i should think about all these trouble here...

if someone wanna kill others by using rainbow styl arrows > i dont care and im fine with it...
and i also think that the advantage isnt that big
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Overdriven on March 04, 2013, 04:57:58 pm
Surely not worth the effort. The advantage gained is minimal to say the least. Like a lot of archers use a custom crosshair because the native one is awful.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 04, 2013, 05:03:31 pm
Where do you draw the line?  So it's okay to make arrows super easy to see, you can mod your game so that "bushes" which are normally very hard to see through are flat on the ground.  You can mod character models to have sprites coming out of them 20 feet to show which way they are facing (basically wall hacking). 

Where do you draw the line?  I'm sure you can make sprites that make walls more transparent than they normally are.

I personally think the game is meant to be played with the default graphics, and I don't know where you would draw the line otherwise.  I personally think it's cheating if someone mods their game to have the big puffy bushes be flat on the ground.  The arrows aren't such a big deal to me, but it does give you a big advantage over those who aren't modding their game.

Sometimes it's hard for me to see a pike or long spear when it's foggy or dark and I'm riding my +3 courser, by some of your logic, I should make pikes and long spears neon pink so it's easy for me to see.  I'm going to then make all the horse rearing weapons that are not pikes/long spears, neon orange so I know where to avoid riding and make the game much easier for me.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: cmp on March 04, 2013, 05:05:38 pm
There will be validation in the future. Mods will need to be whitelisted by us or you won't be able to connect to official servers.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Patoson on March 04, 2013, 09:34:18 pm
Being able to make bushes and whatever invisible is a huge shame
Well, I wouldn't mind that cRPG got rid of those bushes that should have never existed. The only thing they do is annoy and let people hide in them or even shoot from them while using third person camera (another form of cheating).
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Rhekimos on March 04, 2013, 09:51:57 pm
There will be validation in the future. Mods will need to be whitelisted by us or you won't be able to connect to official servers.

A sad day for further improvements. Especially if the whitelisting is tied to the patch schedule like many things.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: cmp on March 04, 2013, 10:03:48 pm
A sad day for further improvements.

Truly a sad day for the thriving cRPG modding scene and the dozens of mods being updated daily.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 04, 2013, 10:10:05 pm
There will be validation in the future. Mods will need to be whitelisted by us or you won't be able to connect to official servers.
I know this isn't big enough to care about, but won't this be sort of a pain in the ass for us people who like to screw around with textures and meshes locally? And won't it make it harder for the people working on gear mods to actively test whether their latest minor changes aren't bugged to some extent?
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: cmp on March 04, 2013, 10:18:21 pm
I know this isn't big enough to care about, but won't this be sort of a pain in the ass for us people who like to screw around with textures and meshes locally?

Yep. But as you said, it's not big (or important) enough to care about.

And won't it make it harder for the people working on gear mods to actively test whether their latest minor changes aren't bugged to some extent?

Nope. They will be able to host a local server with checks disabled.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Rhekimos on March 04, 2013, 10:24:24 pm
Truly a sad day for the thriving cRPG modding scene and the dozens of mods being updated daily.

You could discuss this without sarcasm.

This will put additional barriers and delays to overcome for potential modders. There's room for many silly and great mods to be made, many won't ever be made public, but if you have to go through some arduous process to get it validated to even to get to enjoy it yourself, most will likely be deterred from ever starting.

I can right now edit the files to make the Black Coat of Plates pink. How long would I have to wait for this silly and probably only fun for myself mod to be validated?

I believe this ability to mod in or mod out things, like the dreaded female war scream has vastly extended the lifetime of crpg and I hold it in high regard as something fairly unique in the gaming world.

If validation has to be there, it should be selective and minimal.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: cmp on March 05, 2013, 12:53:07 am
This will put additional barriers and delays to overcome for potential modders. There's room for many silly and great mods to be made, many won't ever be made public, but if you have to go through some arduous process to get it validated to even to get to enjoy it yourself, most will likely be deterred from ever starting.

I can right now edit the files to make the Black Coat of Plates pink. How long would I have to wait for this silly and probably only fun for myself mod to be validated?

Actually, validation is for mods that are to be published and distributed. This effectively kills "only fun for myself" mods, but it's a price I'll gladly pay.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Rhekimos on March 05, 2013, 03:57:15 am
Actually, validation is for mods that are to be published and distributed. This effectively kills "only fun for myself" mods, but it's a price I'll gladly pay.

Of course, that is a developer decision to make. However I hope that decision is made after considering both the downsides as well as the upsides fully.

The main point of my post is that the public mods and the private "just-screwing-around" or just testing mods are not removed from each other. Affecting one will have consequences for the other. And I believe for the whole mod down the line which is why I bother to write about this.

To use another game as an example; Let's take TES:Oblivion under examination. It still has a lively community built around modding and adding still more content into the game, even though it has slowed considerably. Would this ever have happened if modders could only access some kind of sterile testing environment with their mods, and never use them in the mode that they enjoy playing, which would be the main story mode for Oblivion, unless they published them and had them signed by Betheseda?
If Crpg now is like Oblivion from the perspective of modders, what would happen to it with the tinkering mods killed?
The game would be a much more locked down one, a game with not much freedom for expression.
Such a game is much, much less likely to attract creative types, a critical resource for a community driven game.

The obvious complaint about the above analogy is that Oblivion is fully offline, and not in any way comparable to an online game. To this I would say that it's an analogy, dummy, and analogies are never perfect. The main concern between offline and online games is cheating and if the cheating aspect of this was game breaking, Crpg couldn't have grown so popular and retained that popularity for years. With the biggest concern gone, I believe we can dismiss the complaint.

The difficulties in developing mods would also require more technical skills than they do now. You would either need the resources and know-how to run your own server, or at least access to someone who can do those things for you. This is a lot more required right at the start, compared to simply firing up Blender or Photoshop.
We have artists and visionaries and other jack-offs amongst us, let's not dismiss what they could offer to the mod because they are not as technically oriented.

Consider the open-source community. How much of open-source programs are made just for the needs of the developer? Originally made just for their private use? And maybe published after months or even years of polishing and private use, if it comes to that. If we stomp out tinkering, we stomp out the effect that gave the world Linux and countless other programs.

This would be the hard path to take, and asking much more of the devs. But I believe it is also the right path.
Just like politicians that can't decrease military or anti-terrorist funding, because they would take much flak for having done so if something bad happens, developers will come under fire for having the tools to stop all "cheating", and then not using them. It will be annoying.
But it just might be that small thing, that hidden factor, that causes or enables a positive feed-back loop that raises Crpg above the grey masses. After all, the easy moddability of this mod made the creative community that has gathered around it and has been partially recruited to further develop itself what it is now. I believe it would never have happened if tinkering was harder, and it would be a mistake to underestimate the future effect of this seemingly small change.

I will understand if it is decided to kill off non-whitelisted mods, but I'm afraid it will also be a nail in the coffin of the enthusiast spirit in this mod.


Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: cmp on March 05, 2013, 04:52:39 am
I think you're making a huge fuss out of something pretty much nobody cares about.
Also, the Oblivion comparison is horrible unless you are somehow trying to imply that cRPG is being kept alive by its modding community (its what?).
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Rhekimos on March 05, 2013, 04:58:18 am
cRPG is kept alive by resources it can draw upon. Only yesterday chadz put up applications for many interested and capable persons to fill. How could it survive if it didn't have such people?

And the newest patch, how much of the new content was community provided?

Maybe cRPG has matured enough to not care about being open and attracting tinkerers. I hope it's so if tinkering is indeed made rather difficult.

In the mean time, I'll be replacing the vanilla Barbutte with the Hooded Barbutte which unfortunately didn't make it in. Having fun, you know.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: cmp on March 05, 2013, 05:02:24 am
cRPG is kept alive by resources it can draw upon. Only yesterday chadz put up applications for many interested and capable persons to fill. How could it survive if it didn't have such people?

And the newest patch, how much of the new content was community provided?

Both the things you mention are completely unaffected by this change. Just saying.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 05, 2013, 05:22:01 am
I hope I can still keep my own custom war screams... Had to replace that horrible woman yell some time ago (a year ago or more) :lol:. I don't want to publish it because I ripped the sounds from krhm... movies... :rolleyes: So they are kind of copyrighted material.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Rhekimos on March 05, 2013, 05:30:48 am
Both the things you mention are completely unaffected by this change. Just saying.

The items already added certainly won't go away with this change, that's true. Will the interest remain as high though?
In complex systems, such as communities, the effects of even small chances are often hard to foresee.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: cmp on March 05, 2013, 01:33:00 pm
No, it's not about the items we already have. It's about the process used to create those items, which isn't really affected by this. The rest is just speculation.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Rhekimos on March 05, 2013, 01:53:08 pm
It is just speculation. Much like a squirrel speculates on his own strength and the distance between trees before making a leap. We, however, might have poked holes in our wings without even noticing.

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Wheeeee!
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 05, 2013, 05:40:51 pm
Making people  "suffer" with default graphics, or with mods that are developer approved is far better (IMO) than allowing people to have semi transparent walls, spikes coming out of character models, bushes that are flat on the ground (that other people can't see through) or having long spears and pikes be rainbow colored so it's easy for cavalry to dodge them. 

If cheating being prevented is the upside and you being able to fuck around with your graphics on a personal level is the down side, then it's a pretty obvious choice here.  And as cmp said, this won't change anything with you being able to fuck around with graphics to test things out, you just won't be able to join the official servers with variables that aren't pre-approved (paraphrasing don't beat me up cmp)
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Rhekimos on March 05, 2013, 08:37:27 pm
A little liberty to gain a little security ...
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Elio on March 06, 2013, 12:41:31 am
Just found this :

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Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Tomas on March 06, 2013, 02:01:48 am
Think I agree with cmp here.  All objects have the potential to be edited for personal gain by increasing visibility.  Even armours are exploitable as if you make them all pink then its easier to see your enemies.  Yes you could have someone in TS telling you where people are, but they can't give you their exact location allowing you to shoot them whilst they can't see you as clearly.  Unfortunately this cuts down customisation and modding which is sad :(

Perhaps there is a way in which you can customize your own appearance and weapons only??  It seems unlikely but if it were possible to allow that then it could offer the best of both worlds. 
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: DaveUKR on March 06, 2013, 11:55:29 am
Just found this :

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


This is an old problem. Also some guys from Russian community used invisible bushes for a very long time now (I won't give names but they were the reason why I made a couple of threads). I never used myself anything from the mods (even crosshair is the vanilla), I don't see really a big problem of pink projectiles but still it's a small cheat IMO
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Hirlok on March 06, 2013, 12:39:48 pm
I did not care enough to investigate or even think how/why they do it, but I have noticed for a long time that some folks seem to see through bushes and other stuff, or, like yesterday on NA battle, some archers on my team are happily firing (and hitting, no random shots) into thick fog where I definitely could not see shit or aim at anything beyond the next house...

so - all for a CRC check or similar to prevent tampering with this side of the game.

Include some of the better texture mods (like heirloom mod) into the "official repository", and ban any other crap.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Kafein on March 06, 2013, 01:27:34 pm
A little liberty to gain a little security ...

Totally not blowing this out of proportion.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Belatu on March 06, 2013, 02:02:48 pm
You sirs, are havign such a kind and intelligent speeching here, respect.

But nobody is talking about the next glasses I will have to buy if I play one day more with original arrow textures


This is me in one month as archer
(click to show/hide)

And I am serious
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Elmokki on March 06, 2013, 04:18:25 pm
A little liberty to gain a little security ...

Great trolling 5/5


Btw, will I get banned or some shit if I start distributing an obvious cheat mod such as the one Elio posted links for. It'd probably be relatively trivial to make such.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Rhekimos on March 06, 2013, 09:21:28 pm
I would much rather trust my fellow players that they aren't cheating than lock down the game, out of fright that they might be getting some small advantage.

Experienced players already move far from corners, because there's a good chance that there's someone using the old wallhack of 3rd person view and tilde key to view past the corner and hit you in the face as you come around it. Sure it's a dick move to use transparent walls like that, but will it help you to win every fight? It's not like an aimbot or an autoblock.

And this absurd stuff about making spikes come out of armors? Do you have any idea how fucked you would be if you got into a melee with random spikes everywhere? You could not see enemy weapons and you could not block anything!

And different color armor? That's cheating too? Silly, I think.


Great trolling 5/5

It's called having an opinion. Be against it all you like, but don't say it's "just trolling".

Totally not blowing this out of proportion.

The principle fits. But granted, he was speaking of greater matters.


Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 06, 2013, 09:28:40 pm
I did not care enough to investigate or even think how/why they do it, but I have noticed for a long time that some folks seem to see through bushes and other stuff, or, like yesterday on NA battle, some archers on my team are happily firing (and hitting, no random shots) into thick fog where I definitely could not see shit or aim at anything beyond the next house...


Blame WSE, I have the ridiculous "Outline enemy with banners and neon red" circles option turned on... Fog or Bushes, I see all, just aim a foot below it for headshots.


Also, using the scalers and options to reduce tree rendering distance and tree details and foliage and grass levels to minimum if you want to see really well, they practically go away.


Do the same for water effects and VOILA now you can even shoot people underwater.


Also turn off particles too, helps a bunch.


Congratulations, now you too can legally be a stupid accurate archer with zero mods!
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Hirlok on March 07, 2013, 01:08:28 pm
Blame WSE, ...

ah, thanks Tears - I am still using the original client, WSE gives me too much of a slideshow and more crashes on my machine.

That explains a lot, and is plain stupid mofo bs indeed.

Particles and foliage are turned down anyways for performance reasons (until I get my new gaming laptop, hehe), makes a bit of a difference but not much, e.g. fog and those dead-ugly sand storms do not go away without additional "measures".

Anyways - I am just an old-fashioned realism freak....
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Latvian on March 09, 2013, 10:49:38 am
Just found this :

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i want this one
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Rumblood on March 09, 2013, 05:50:48 pm
While there are certainly some blatant instances where modifications are crossing the line into cheating, let's not fool ourselves into thinking the OP was doing anything more than creating another anti-ranged hate thread and wasn't even thinking about transparent walls when he made this post  :lol:

Make missiles visible. They aren't tiny bullets traveling faster than the speed of sound. It benefits both the shooter and the target who can see them coming in order to dodge and there is no good reason to make them invisible.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Robert on March 11, 2013, 11:11:49 am
Cheating is cheating
I've heard ppl on server say things like turn off auto block but I always thought this game was cheat free.
Now peaple are openly admiting to changing game files and saying its only a small cheat - WTF
Big pink arrows and weapons = cheating

Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 11, 2013, 11:15:26 am
I wouldn't really compare slightly more visible arrows to autoblocking. Just saying...
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Moncho on March 11, 2013, 11:37:51 am
I wouldn't really compare slightly more visible arrows to autoblocking. Just saying...

Even if certain cases (arrows) are not too bad, the abusing potential is too damn high imo and should not allow for it. Some examples:

A bright purple texture letting you know where polearms (especially longspears, pikes and hoplites) are a big help for cav, since it will prevent you from something that you might not have noticed otherwise and save your life more effectively than an autoblocker.

Similarly if I have a buckler, I could make purple all shieldbreaking weapons, and just avoid them without much thinking, and engaging only those that cannot break my shield easily...

Or being able to see the pikeman/archer waiting just around the corner, that is also a big advantage... (regarding the semi invisible buildings)

Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 11, 2013, 12:08:22 pm
Nah... You seriously can't compare texture stuff like pink arrows to autoblock. It's just never ever even closely as lame. Imo if you want to have pink spears etc, go ahead I don't care. I think it just looks ugly and doesn't give enough of an advantage for the ugliness bonus.

Also the heirloom model pack is cheating by the same logic. It makes heirloomed items highlighted and you know who has +3 item or something else. You see right away what loom level the item is and looting is easier or you know to get away from guys who have all +3 and attack the guys who have no looms. Some other cases the heirloom pack makes some weapons more visible and some less visible.

That wallhack thing is pretty ugly move... Not real sportsmanship there..
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Spleen on March 11, 2013, 02:22:22 pm
While we're at it:

http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/to-crush-your-enemies-see-them-driven-before-you/

Not as effective now that they changed the crop rotation map (by adding visible fences without collision meshes...I mean ffs guys)
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Kafein on March 11, 2013, 04:41:01 pm
While we're at it:

http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/to-crush-your-enemies-see-them-driven-before-you/

Not as effective now that they changed the crop rotation map (by adding visible fences without collision meshes...I mean ffs guys)

I can't downvote you enough :(
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Casimir on March 11, 2013, 04:49:28 pm
Wall hacks such as that are clearly a cheat and should be checked against.  Pink textures are far more marginal and im not really decided on those personally.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Shemaforash on March 11, 2013, 04:51:25 pm
I personally don't mind the pink textured arrows that much but the transparent textures is a whole different case..
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Robert on March 11, 2013, 06:21:44 pm
So small cheat advantage  :D   big cheat advantage :(

 :rolleyes: cheating is cheating
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Penitent on March 11, 2013, 06:45:57 pm
Pink stuff is cheating.  That's pretty scummy.

The heirloom pack doesn't let you see things from a far distance...if if you want to pick up used arrows or avoid all pikes from afar as a cav.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Tagora on March 11, 2013, 07:33:48 pm
In any other game pink textures or otherwise would be considered against the rules.  Why should that be different here?  I have an archer alt without any mods and it disappoints me to realize that lots are using unfair advantages over me.  Ban on sight anyone who admits to using the textures, then implement hash check, and ban whoever is caught with them.  Problem solved.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Spleen on March 12, 2013, 12:45:06 am
The hash check is performed on the files on your hdd, nothing stops anyone really dedicated from changing them after being placed in the ram (which should be even more easier since everyone disables "load textures on demand" - and yeah, ofc one could easily randomize the position of those files in the ram by using features in win 7/win 8)

But I guess whitelisting mods will be the best solution - for melee. shit wont happen with crpg, after all the modability of warband is what got us crpg in the first place.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 12, 2013, 05:21:06 am
Lol this might just be me but who the fuck has difficulties in seeing the pike or long spear with normal settings? I think that's the first thing you learn to avoid as a horseman.

I just used heirloom model pack as an example. You gain unfair advantage with it if we start being all butthurt about some minor things. I just explained it in my last post. Transparent walls and Spleeno's wheat cutter are the only ones in this thread that cause problems in my opinion.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Rumblood on March 12, 2013, 06:59:38 am
In any other game pink textures or otherwise would be considered against the rules.  Why should that be different here?  I have an archer alt without any mods and it disappoints me to realize that lots are using unfair advantages over me.  Ban on sight anyone who admits to using the textures, then implement hash check, and ban whoever is caught with them.  Problem solved.

Whatever you do, don't click here or you may choke on your own tongue in outrage. Oh yeah, its stickied on the official forums.  :rolleyes:

http://forum.meleegaming.com/beginner%27s-help-and-guides/mods-compatible-with-crpg-%28updated-sticky%29/ (http://forum.meleegaming.com/beginner%27s-help-and-guides/mods-compatible-with-crpg-%28updated-sticky%29/)

You guys simply don't understand what "developer supported mods" means. Transparent walls? Cheating. You won't find those mods in that thread. Making your weapons look better/shinier/stupider? Making better/louder/softer sounds? Yep, its in there.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Elio on March 12, 2013, 07:27:47 am
The hash check is performed on the files on your hdd, nothing stops anyone really dedicated from changing them after being placed in the ram (which should be even more easier since everyone disables "load textures on demand" - and yeah, ofc one could easily randomize the position of those files in the ram by using features in win 7/win 8)
There is still way to do a randomly checksum of files loaded on RAM and compare with server hash, plus hash could be based on your own key to be sure you don't send a know common list to the server, there are many ways to piss off hackers and ban the whole cheat at least one time.

And if a game is based on level it's even easier to ban these shits by deleting their accounts. And if they can still rejoin with a new key, they will have to start to level 1.

NB : I'm not talking about cRPG, but in general against cheating
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: DaveUKR on March 12, 2013, 07:42:40 am
The hash check is performed on the files on your hdd, nothing stops anyone really dedicated from changing them after being placed in the ram (which should be even more easier since everyone disables "load textures on demand" - and yeah, ofc one could easily randomize the position of those files in the ram by using features in win 7/win 8)

But I guess whitelisting mods will be the best solution - for melee. shit wont happen with crpg, after all the modability of warband is what got us crpg in the first place.

is it really worth of that? I mean who would take such risks when it means a long ban if not permaban if it gets uncoated.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Spleen on March 12, 2013, 11:39:04 am
last time I checked we had a whole global unban forum dedicated to those dedicated men.

edit: maybe the irony of using dedicated twice wasnt obvious enough for shema, but so what
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Kafein on March 14, 2013, 10:58:35 am
Lol this might just be me but who the fuck has difficulties in seeing the pike or long spear with normal settings? I think that's the first thing you learn to avoid as a horseman.

As a colorblind person, I sure as hell do. The brown of the wood over the green of grass is not that visible for me. Same for metal over a majority of the wall textures.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 14, 2013, 12:14:53 pm
As a colorblind person, I sure as hell do. The brown of the wood over the green of grass is not that visible for me. Same for metal over a majority of the wall textures.
So do you consider it cheating if you brought up the visibility to the same level as non colorblind person has it?
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 14, 2013, 03:55:27 pm
Lol this might just be me but who the fuck has difficulties in seeing the pike or long spear with normal settings? I think that's the first thing you learn to avoid as a horseman.

I just used heirloom model pack as an example. You gain unfair advantage with it if we start being all butthurt about some minor things. I just explained it in my last post. Transparent walls and Spleeno's wheat cutter are the only ones in this thread that cause problems in my opinion.

In fog, or at night sometimes I've been surprised by a pike or long spear.  It would certainly make my life a hell of a lot easier if all pikes/long spears were neon glowing pink.  Hell I could also make all the other rearing polearms like a neon orange as well.   Would make cavalry a lot easier.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Nehvar on March 14, 2013, 04:27:41 pm
As a colorblind person, I sure as hell do. The brown of the wood over the green of grass is not that visible for me. Same for metal over a majority of the wall textures.

Same.  Also invisible is the newer method of displaying arrows in flight; and metal textures when there's a lot of fog.  When there's heavy fog a tincan with a sword may as well be some anime ninja.  Can't fight them.  Can't even follow their movements.

Do you use alternate textures btw? I solved the metal-over-stone issue with the "realistic colors 1.22" mod; the spear/pike issue with finalboss' texture pack; and the arrow issue, mostly, by switching back to flying_missile (native look).  Can't do shit about the fog though.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Shemaforash on March 14, 2013, 04:33:21 pm
As a colorblind person, I sure as hell do. The brown of the wood over the green of grass is not that visible for me. Same for metal over a majority of the wall textures.

Someone (yes I know someone) should design a color-blind texture pack :)
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Joseph Porta on March 14, 2013, 11:26:49 pm
As a colorblind person, I sure as hell do. The brown of the wood over the green of grass is not that visible for me. Same for metal over a majority of the wall textures.
I might just be color blind, im having this aswell, weapons just matching wall textures..
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Kafein on March 15, 2013, 12:15:53 am
So do you consider it cheating if you brought up the visibility to the same level as non colorblind person has it?

I honestly don't know the kind of visibility a non-colorblind person has. I mean, how could I ? Some games likes BF3 make a very good work of being colorblindness "compliant" by changing the color of some icons, but it's never about the actual game screen, which is usually fine. In BF3 playing the normal version can be pretty infuriating, as the color of your squad is extremely close to that of the enemy team for people with red-green deficiencies.

Same.  Also invisible is the newer method of displaying arrows in flight; and metal textures when there's a lot of fog.  When there's heavy fog a tincan with a sword may as well be some anime ninja.  Can't fight them.  Can't even follow their movements.

Do you use alternate textures btw? I solved the metal-over-stone issue with the "realistic colors 1.22" mod; the spear/pike issue with finalboss' texture pack; and the arrow issue, mostly, by switching back to flying_missile (native look).  Can't do shit about the fog though.

I never really cared enough to start modding my game in order to improve the constrasts. I only clearly die to this like once every four maps. Maybe I'll try this though, thanks.

Someone (yes I know someone) should design a color-blind texture pack :)

Too bad Final Boss vanished :(
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: cmp on March 15, 2013, 12:59:16 am
The hash check is performed on the files on your hdd

No.

and yeah, ofc one could easily randomize the position of those files in the ram by using features in win 7/win 8)

If you're talking about ASLR, you have no idea what you're talking about. If you aren't, I have no idea what you're talking about.

But I guess whitelisting mods will be the best solution - for melee. shit wont happen with crpg, after all the modability of warband is what got us crpg in the first place.

Actually, it will.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Spleen on March 15, 2013, 10:43:52 pm
Waiting for it since August 2012

edit: And I think I've been waiting even longer for speed bonus for mounted projectiles while we're at it...
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: cmp on March 16, 2013, 12:55:08 am
edit: And I think I've been waiting even longer for speed bonus for mounted projectiles while we're at it...

You don't seem very well informed. The speed bonus fix is up and running on test servers (EU1, EU2, NA1).
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Commodore_Axephante on March 16, 2013, 01:09:29 am
Not sure how all of these "altered file detection" methods you're all discussing would work, but I for one would not be able to play if they were implemented. Do I have any of the cheat mods you're discussing? No. But I don't use a single item that I haven't modified somehow, visually. Is it for a benefit? Yes. The benefit of looking awesome. If I got banned for that in some blanket sweep, I'd move on without a second thought.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Spleen on March 16, 2013, 02:36:10 pm
You don't seem very well informed. The speed bonus fix is up and running on test servers (EU1, EU2, NA1).

I cant find any mention of mounted projectiles being fixed in the wse2 changelogs (http://forum.meleegaming.com/crpg-client-beta/version-history-%28current-29-07-14%29/) - or do the test servers have their own changelog?
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: cmp on March 16, 2013, 05:35:40 pm
It has been active since the initial build of the test server (before the WSE2 client changelogs).
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: jtobiasm on March 16, 2013, 09:20:20 pm
How do I get this?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Spleen on March 16, 2013, 09:30:17 pm
Well done cmp.

btw: some of the legal texture change mods (realistic colors, calradia in darkness) also change the flora_kinds.txt (but only if you want the different grass, afaik its optional)
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Commodore_Axephante on March 16, 2013, 09:44:17 pm
Actually, it will.

Alright, rule Melee: Battlegrounds with an iron fist - I just won't play it - but leave Warband alone. Seriously, its malleability is literally what makes it special, and if you can't see that then I don't know how the hell you got into modding it to begin with. The fact that we can alter this game as we please makes it more fun for us, and yes, makes your job (keeping the game fun) much, much easier. As someone once put it, some of us (those with slight know-how) can make our own eye-candy, instead of bothering you for it. Does that mean nothing to you?

Gmnotutoo wanted a unicorn, so I made the Courser into a unicorn for him. NuberT wanted a new look for his Long Maul, and I made it for him. Nazgull wanted the new Leather Scale Armor, but without the perma-hood (which makes it so that you're wearing two hoods if you put on headgear). I made it for him. That's three players whose personal experiences improved, at no time-cost to the Dev team. Add all the crap I've made for myself and you've got an easy 4. Add everyone who has downloaded the Naked Mesh I've made (assuming they liked it) and you've got, well, even more than that.

Are there lots of players doing this kind of thing for the community? Probably not. But I'm not alone. I mean, look at what Korgoth is doing - people love his new textures.

Kill this source of new life and you will kill the mod, at least for me - or at least seriously wound it.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: cmp on March 16, 2013, 11:22:01 pm
Alright, rule Melee: Battlegrounds with an iron fist - I just won't play it - but leave Warband alone.

Don't worry, it will only apply to cRPG.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Segd on March 17, 2013, 12:09:55 am
Don't worry, it will only apply to cRPG.
Just don't forget that files should be checked after game started. If it will be the Launcher check(like with banners now) ppl still will be able to replace files after launcher opens the start game menu.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Commodore_Axephante on March 17, 2013, 01:02:25 am
Don't worry, it will only apply to cRPG.

Wow, smartass. Lost another one. Good job.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Gmnotutoo on March 17, 2013, 01:23:47 am
Wait.. so I'm going to get banned for having a unicorn texture and the pewpew mod?
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Miwiw on March 17, 2013, 01:28:42 am
Korgoth's Textures won't be possible anymore? Does that also apply to the mod replacing all the heirlooms? Or am I reading just some weird shit here that's not true?

ignore my post. read the thread.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: cmp on March 17, 2013, 01:49:58 am
Just don't forget that files should be checked after game started. If it will be the Launcher check(like with banners now) ppl still will be able to replace files after launcher opens the start game menu.

The files aren't checked, the content loaded by the game is.

Wait.. so I'm going to get banned for having a unicorn texture and the pewpew mod?

Nobody is going to be banned, you will just be kicked from official servers for having tampered files (assuming your mod isn't whitelisted).

Wow, smartass. Lost another one. Good job.

There's worse, like people who threaten to leave the mod if something is/isn't done. Is that supposed to be some kind of blackmail or what? Either way it's really lame.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Korgoth on March 17, 2013, 05:13:37 am
So I'm guessing getting a mod whitelisted would be a pretty quick and easy thing to do when the whole community dev joiny thingy all gets started?
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: cmp on March 17, 2013, 12:28:37 pm
I guess we could have somebody take care of that, yes. Have the game periodically update whitelists from a web page, so that no patch is needed and even minor mods can be added quickly.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Kafein on March 17, 2013, 12:37:52 pm
I guess we could have somebody take care of that, yes. Have the game periodically update whitelists from a web page, so that no patch is needed and even minor mods can be added quickly.

The community managers could be tasked with approving submods. If adding file hashes is automated that is.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: chadz on March 17, 2013, 01:04:48 pm
I can't believe people are raging over the fact that tinkering with your models and textures client side should be restricted or overseen.

Now here is a suggestion. Some servers have the restriction on, some have it off, and you can decide where you want to play. And if you really want to play with your unicorn on the restricted servers, you put it into the review process.

Some people really find something rageworthy in every little thing...

The community managers could be tasked with approving submods. If adding file hashes is automated that is.

yes
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Grumbs on March 17, 2013, 01:24:08 pm
Keep up the good work devs. The majority won't be using mods at all (especially people who don't even come to forums), and cheating can be prevented with just some delay before mods get approved

There was a slight communication fail in this thread, but some people should maybe be a bit thicker skinned too.
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Falka on March 17, 2013, 02:50:50 pm
I can't believe people are raging over the fact that

Oh, you naive supreme overlord ...  :wink:
Title: Re: Cheating textures
Post by: Sniger on March 17, 2013, 03:23:07 pm
In any other game pink textures or otherwise would be considered against the rules.  Why should that be different here?  I have an archer alt without any mods and it disappoints me to realize that lots are using unfair advantages over me.  Ban on sight anyone who admits to using the textures, then implement hash check, and ban whoever is caught with them.  Problem solved.

frikkin word