cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: rufio on January 14, 2013, 09:51:50 am

Title: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: rufio on January 14, 2013, 09:51:50 am
it feels like it. did it happen>?
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: [ptx] on January 14, 2013, 09:52:29 am
Yup.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Dalhi on January 14, 2013, 09:55:47 am
We'll have a more sophisticated turnrate handling next patch.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Vibe on January 14, 2013, 10:02:16 am
Was it a server side patch or did I miss something
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Dalhi on January 14, 2013, 10:08:26 am
Was it a server side patch or did I miss something

Server side patch, applied for whose with beta sign(EU_1 and EU_3) not sure about duel server.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Vibe on January 14, 2013, 10:15:15 am
Server side patch, applied for whose with beta sign(EU_1 and EU_3) not sure about duel server.

I saw a bunch of WSE notes yesterday when I ran crpg launcher after a few days (or maybe weeks? i donno), but I was too lazy to read them so I just cancelled them :S

Are they availible anywhere?
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Nazurdin on January 14, 2013, 10:17:26 am
http://forum.meleegaming.com/crpg-client-beta/version-history-(current-29-07-14)/
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: rufio on January 14, 2013, 12:25:56 pm
so basicly , kicks got nerfed to oblivion, crushthrough got nerfed to oblivion, and 1 handed were made demi gods? lol 1 handed was eazymod already now its just gonna be fully op. kinngrimm been bribing the dev team???  and **** your downvotes nabs. i play 1handed most of time and this is just rediculous unballanced haha
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Tibe on January 14, 2013, 12:35:27 pm
(click to show/hide)

ummm, somewhat agree, somewhat disagree. Yep, maulers definately got the short end of the stick this time, 1h wasnt/isnt that supereasy, you just skilled Rufio. :rolleyes: 2h's still have the superdupernukeyourmomtooblivion lolstab.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Bronto on January 14, 2013, 12:42:22 pm
so basicly , kicks got nerfed to oblivion, crushthrough got nerfed to oblivion, and 1 handed were made demi gods? lol 1 handed was eazymod already now its just gonna be fully op. kinngrimm been bribing the dev team???  and **** your downvotes nabs. i play 1handed most of time and this is just rediculous unballanced haha

you seem upset....nerf archers maybe?
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Strudog on January 14, 2013, 12:48:58 pm
1h has never been UP, epeople just complain that they have to take that extra hit with their small sword to kill somoene,1 handers sometimes do the same damage as any other class
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: rufio on January 14, 2013, 01:29:22 pm
i can tell you now that u basicly will hit every overhead you do, and will be able to swing faster yes shit is op :D
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Erzengel on January 14, 2013, 01:48:17 pm
A one handed weapon with 99 speed actually is faster than a Greatsword with 92 speed and you also have to block overheads now? That is really unfair... NERF!
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: rufio on January 14, 2013, 04:38:14 pm
wait what it wasnt faster already and didnt have to block them before ?? oh snap maybe we were playing a different game
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Leshma on January 14, 2013, 04:55:01 pm
Have to agree with Rufio. "Swashbuckling" isn't hard at all. In direct duels, it has an edge over 2h/polearms that have less than 3 attacks. For example, I'm using Dadao atm and it's pretty damn hard to win against any semi-competent shielder/onehander.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Nazurdin on January 14, 2013, 04:55:55 pm
Lol Rufio, just look at the ground and pull some of this epileptic moves of yours, puny shielders like me cant stand a chance. But please, don't let us drown in your tears, I prefer a quick death.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Erzengel on January 14, 2013, 04:56:12 pm
It really seems like you play a different game than most other people Rufio. When was your glorious "eazymod" time as shielder by the way? Since I am playing the mod I can only remember you as 2h.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: rufio on January 14, 2013, 05:43:05 pm
he is called lelouche lamperouge and he is king of prostitutes and kills hopefull young warriors aiming to be legends someday, also my main has been shielder , and cav for gens before i went for my ultimate build
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Leshma on January 14, 2013, 05:45:18 pm
Also, knockdown chance of one handed maces is just silly high.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: rufio on January 14, 2013, 05:45:59 pm
i have also lobbyd for that to change, reduce the knockdown chance to like 12% or make them unballanced!
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Kafein on January 14, 2013, 06:07:27 pm
Have to agree with Rufio. "Swashbuckling" isn't hard at all. In direct duels, it has an edge over 2h/polearms that have less than 3 attacks. For example, I'm using Dadao atm and it's pretty damn hard to win against any semi-competent shielder/onehander.

Stun + hiltslash ? Especially with a dadao.

Also, knockdown chance of one handed maces is just silly high.

Yes, nerf the only 1h left that do a little bit of damage. Please.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Erzengel on January 14, 2013, 06:11:50 pm
Also, knockdown chance of one handed maces is just silly high.

Compared to the knockdown chance of Bar Mace it is extremly low. Stop crying 2h heroes. :)

@rufio

Unbalanced one handed maces? Really? Come on it is getting ridiculous...
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Strudog on January 14, 2013, 06:16:59 pm
Compared to the knockdown chance of Bar Mace it is extremly low. Stop crying 2h heroes. :)

The Warhammer knocks me down every time i come into contact with it, or it 1 hits me
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Erzengel on January 14, 2013, 06:17:50 pm
The Warhammer knocks me down every time i come into contact with it, or it 1 hits me

Simply not true....  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 14, 2013, 06:29:14 pm
Yeah how ridiculous that you can now adjust an overhead with a light/short weapon...I mean, how would anyone manage to do such a great feat in real life.    :rolleyes:

The reason this was implemented in the first place was because of the super long (pike/long spear) or super heavy (mauls) weapons being able to helicopter spin and hit anything in their swing radius, even if the overhead was already "in the ground".  You should have always been able to do this with lighter/shorter weapons. 

Also the 1h stab animation is terrible and before this turn rate removal you had to have the person off center to your right, and god forbid they move slightly when you're trying to thrust.

Again, this makes perfect sense.  The lighter/shorter weapons should be less affected by the turn speed nerf than heavier/longer weapons (in regards mainly to thrusting/overheads)
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Dalhi on January 14, 2013, 06:32:18 pm
Personally I am not a fan of any game mechanics that gives you "free" hit.

Back to the topic, overheads feels much better now, wich is awsome for me.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Leshma on January 14, 2013, 06:45:39 pm
Stun + hiltslash ? Especially with a dadao.

Hiltwhat? I haven't been hiltslashed in ages myself, and doing it on my own is so much harder than it used to be. I used to harass turtles with it, now that's ten times harder to do than it was before. And Dadao is slower, you are probably thinking of Miadoao.

Stun? Maybe that works if you have 10 PS or more, personally I've rarely seen anyone stunned long enough to be able to hit him twice.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Leshma on January 14, 2013, 06:50:09 pm
Simply not true....  :rolleyes:

Yes it is true, those weapons knock me down most of the time. And I don't think that Barmace has higher chance, it's probably the same (based on PS or whatever). And imho Barmace and Great Maul having same knock down chance like Flanged mace, that's silly.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Joseph Porta on January 14, 2013, 06:57:59 pm
1h mace is knockdown usually every first or second hit.. not even kidding
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Mlekce on January 14, 2013, 06:59:04 pm
Have to agree with Rufio. "Swashbuckling" isn't hard at all. In direct duels, it has an edge over 2h/polearms that have less than 3 attacks. For example, I'm using Dadao atm and it's pretty damn hard to win against any semi-competent shielder/onehander.
Problems with Dadao? You are full of shit leshma.


Look at prices on mioadao and dadao and you will see how shit and unwanted those items are. That tells a lot about this.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Erzengel on January 14, 2013, 07:01:27 pm
Yes it is true, those weapons knock me down most of the time. And I don't think that Barmace has higher chance, it's probably the same (based on PS or whatever). And imho Barmace and Great Maul having same knock down chance like Flanged mace, that's silly.

Sorry Leshma, but what you say is just plain wrong. Knockdown mainly is based on weight (Warhammer 2.5kg, Bar Mace 4.5kg which is a huge difference). A Warhammer knockdowns quite often but it also has a very short range (unlike Bar Mace). It is very easy to outreach this weapon. It also costs 3k more gold than the Bar Mace and deals less damage. Maces with less weight like the Iberian or below don't knockdown that often. You should play a gen as shielder instead of spreading myths here.

Claiming that a Warhammer most of the time onehits you is simply a lie.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Mlekce on January 14, 2013, 07:03:31 pm
mw warhammer have 3 weight,and it is able to knockdown. If that is bullshit then it is also bullshit when 2h mace with 2 weight can do the same.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Kafein on January 14, 2013, 07:05:53 pm
Yes it is true, those weapons knock me down most of the time. And I don't think that Barmace has higher chance, it's probably the same (based on PS or whatever). And imho Barmace and Great Maul having same knock down chance like Flanged mace, that's silly.

All 2h knockdown weapons have ridiculously high chances of KD and stun because they are bloody heavy. Butan's barmace can stun my shield, and it is also very fast. Weight is important in the CT formula iirc.

Hiltwhat? I haven't been hiltslashed in ages myself, and doing it on my own is so much harder than it used to be. I used to harass turtles with it, now that's ten times harder to do than it was before. And Dadao is slower, you are probably thinking of Miadoao.

Stun? Maybe that works if you have 10 PS or more, personally I've rarely seen anyone stunned long enough to be able to hit him twice.

Yes probably miaodao but whatever, hiltslashing is rare chadz be praised, but still happens. Also HBS.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Jarlek on January 14, 2013, 07:18:34 pm
About knockdown:
Max knockdown chance is 30% IIRC, and depends on raw damage and weapon weight for the most part.
The reason you feel 1h maces knockdown so much is because you get hit much more by them.
If you need 2 hits to kill someone, then it's fairly low chance that the one hit (remember: they die on the second hit) will knock you down, but if you need 3 or more hits, then you suddenly got double the amount of hits landing, making knockdown appear to happen more often with 1h.

About turn speed adjusting:
You say that 1h got a huge bonus from this. No. Short and light weapons did. Yes, 1h got a better range of turning from this AND they are the ones with the shortest and lightest weapons. But if you are complaining about short and light weapons getting a buff, then please think about what you are saying. Before, more reach was always better. Same with weapon weight, for the most part. Now they made choosing a lighter and shorter weapon more viable and gave them one real advantage, when they really only had drawbacks before. Why complain about that?
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Banok on January 14, 2013, 07:20:59 pm
so basicly , kicks got nerfed to oblivion, crushthrough got nerfed to oblivion, and 1 handed were made demi gods? lol 1 handed was eazymod already now its just gonna be fully op. kinngrimm been bribing the dev team???  and **** your downvotes nabs. i play 1handed most of time and this is just rediculous unballanced haha

quoted for truth, im rerolling shield. forums full of downvoting shield noobs also.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Leshma on January 14, 2013, 07:27:39 pm
Yes probably miaodao but whatever, hiltslashing is rare chadz be praised, but still happens. Also HBS.

Didn't say 2H is harder to play than 1H... just that 1H isn't hard at all like some people seem to think. And Dadao was just an example. Of course than HBS and other OP 2H weapons pwn most 1H weapons, mainly because they have lolstab.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Erzengel on January 14, 2013, 07:27:57 pm
quoted for truth, im rerolling shield. forums full of downvoting shield noobs also.

Tell us when you change back to 2h because shielder isn't as easy as you think.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Leshma on January 14, 2013, 07:31:18 pm
Sorry Leshma, but what you say is just plain wrong. Knockdown mainly is based on weight.

That's not true. I know because I used Quarter/Iron staff for quite a long time and I know that with PS knockdown chance goes up substantially.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Leshma on January 14, 2013, 07:31:50 pm
Tell us when you change back to 2h because shielder isn't as easy as you think.  :rolleyes:

I'm not playing my main because I don't have the gear for it (loomed stuff).
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Banok on January 14, 2013, 07:32:29 pm
kk done a couple gens 1h before tho, was very easy before so...

edit: that was before new valor system which totally favour shield, and now I dont have to learn to fight vs maul or kickers...
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 14, 2013, 07:50:03 pm
kk done a couple gens 1h before tho, was very easy before so...

edit: that was before new valor system which totally favour shield, and now I dont have to learn to fight vs maul or kickers...

So why'd you go back to 2h hero if 1h/shield was "so easy" before?  Apparently not "as easy" as 2h?

not that "being easy" has any business in this argument, but let's play some devil's advocate with your logic and see what comes out of it.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Silveredge on January 14, 2013, 09:27:35 pm
So why'd you go back to 2h hero if 1h/shield was "so easy" before?  Apparently not "as easy" as 2h?

not that "being easy" has any business in this argument, but let's play some devil's advocate with your logic and see what comes out of it.

Have you ever given a shield to a new player and suddenly he could play the game?  I had a number of friends that played the game, a lot of them  could not do very well at all, even after several months of playing it every day, until I told them to try out shielder.  The difference it made in their score was astounding, but when they lost their shield, lol.  Yeah, pretty sure shielder is easier then 2h...  The list of shielders who cannot fight without their shield (Dies immediately when it breaks) is incredibly long.  Shields shore up that skill level gap pretty well.  When an experienced player has a shield in his hands, it makes their play so much more consistent.  They are more effective in that there is no directional mess ups, and you can't pressure their reaction time because it's either block or not blocking.  They don't have to worry about if they are blocking the correct way or not whatsoever, it's just block.

I guess you could say it would be the same thing if you replaced all four of the buttons on a controller with one, then played a game like God of War where you have to press the correct button at the right time.  But now you only have 1 to press...
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Laufknoten on January 14, 2013, 09:40:48 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Berserkadin on January 14, 2013, 09:43:56 pm
Shields are great if you don't know how to block and feint properly, but as soon as you got a good blocking skills, 2h spam gets alot more viable. More damage, more reach, not any noticable difference in attack speed. And as always, when a class that isnt 2hers get buffed abit, all you 2h heroes start shitting bricks and crying like fucking babies, like always.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Turboflex on January 14, 2013, 09:49:51 pm
Have you ever given a shield to a new player and suddenly he could play the game?  I had a number of friends that played the game, a lot of them  could not do very well at all, even after several months of playing it every day, until I told them to try out shielder.  The difference it made in their score was astounding, but when they lost their shield, lol.  Yeah, pretty sure shielder is easier then 2h...  The list of shielders who cannot fight without their shield (Dies immediately when it breaks) is incredibly long.  Shields shore up that skill level gap pretty well.  When an experienced player has a shield in his hands, it makes their play so much more consistent.  They are more effective in that there is no directional mess ups, and you can't pressure their reaction time because it's either block or not blocking.  They don't have to worry about if they are blocking the correct way or not whatsoever, it's just block.

I guess you could say it would be the same thing if you replaced all four of the buttons on a controller with one, then played a game like God of War where you have to press the correct button at the right time.  But now you only have 1 to press...

Maybe it helps them gain some confidence and stay alive longer cuz the game can be pretty overwhelming to start since a lot of shit is going on at once, but mediocre/poor shielders are still fodder just like mediocre/poor 2h.

I've also seen a lot well known high scoring 2h heroes try shielding and suddenly their scores went quite a ways down. The movement style is different and picking a shield up certainly did not act as an instant booster so saying it is easy mode and replacing 4 buttons with 1 is fairly ridiculous. yes it will be easier if your only objective is staying alive longer then by all means go get 7-8 shield skill and a +3 huscarl shield and spend all round holding it up, you will last longer but won't kill anything so that is not very productive.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 14, 2013, 09:58:08 pm
Have you ever given a shield to a new player and suddenly he could play the game?  I had a number of friends that played the game, a lot of them  could not do very well at all, even after several months of playing it every day, until I told them to try out shielder.  The difference it made in their score was astounding, but when they lost their shield, lol.  Yeah, pretty sure shielder is easier then 2h...  The list of shielders who cannot fight without their shield (Dies immediately when it breaks) is incredibly long.  Shields shore up that skill level gap pretty well.  When an experienced player has a shield in his hands, it makes their play so much more consistent.  They are more effective in that there is no directional mess ups, and you can't pressure their reaction time because it's either block or not blocking.  They don't have to worry about if they are blocking the correct way or not whatsoever, it's just block.

I guess you could say it would be the same thing if you replaced all four of the buttons on a controller with one, then played a game like God of War where you have to press the correct button at the right time.  But now you only have 1 to press...

I understand what you're saying completely, my question was, if 1h/shield is so much easier than 2h, why go back to 2h?  I'm playing devil's advocate with his logic.  I don't think whether a class is "easier" or "harder" than another class has any business being in the argument in the first place.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Jarlek on January 14, 2013, 10:12:24 pm
That's not true. I know because I used Quarter/Iron staff for quite a long time and I know that with PS knockdown chance goes up substantially.
I haven't done the numbers myself, but I remember one of the devs (paul, I believe) said that you don't need much powerstrike to get enough raw damage to hit the 30% knockdown chance limit. Even with low weight/damage knockdown weapons (like quarterstaff, not woodens tick) you will be close to the upper limit with 5 PS.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Silveredge on January 14, 2013, 11:30:43 pm
I guess I need to update my avatar or something.  All these people think I'm a 2h, and that they're making some kind of point when I am indeed a 1h.  Guess its the opposite of your question to whoever that guy was, Huseby.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: rufio on January 15, 2013, 12:22:32 am
So why'd you go back to 2h hero if 1h/shield was "so easy" before?  Apparently not "as easy" as 2h?

not that "being easy" has any business in this argument, but let's play some devil's advocate with your logic and see what comes out of it.

i considder myself a top tier player with eny class except archer, i chose 2hander at the time because it was the most challenging imo and i liked the 2hander hero idea, your logic seems to be people choose what is the most op, like somone rerolling a class in an mmo to witch at that time is ''OP'' to get the benefit from broken ballance , all i have to say is you make no sense nab, like stated earlier here i mostly play my 1handed shielder cav hybrid alt nowerdays. so the whole ooh 2handed while shit pants argument is pretty damn shortsighted, im stating what i am in this thread as a player who likes to see overall ballance good, not from a 1 sided perspective like most scrubs claim.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Rebelyell on January 15, 2013, 12:31:37 am
1henders are born to whine

1h is really good and strong class right now

stop cryin, mainly to churhil that is blind forum rage cun....
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Tindel on January 15, 2013, 12:38:18 am
It will be interesting to see how this turns out i guess.
I really really miss those instaturn leftslash to the head moves we had back in the old days,  made life exciting neh?


Can anyone say how it compares to before?
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Tindel on January 15, 2013, 12:41:04 am
I understand what you're saying completely, my question was, if 1h/shield is so much easier than 2h, why go back to 2h?  I'm playing devil's advocate with his logic.  I don't think whether a class is "easier" or "harder" than another class has any business being in the argument in the first place.

Because its more fun. Why gimp yourself and play only part of the game?   Yes directional attacks are fun,  yes directional blocks are fun.
Autoblock isnt fun. Its not very exciting either. The game would be better without it.

Shields should be manual block too.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: rufio on January 15, 2013, 03:56:36 am
played abit tonight again, it seems 1 handed without shield has to deal with weapon stun for the rest its very fast and ive been getting shitloads of kills with overheads. with a shield no weapon stun. my conclusion this might be implemented to make it more fun for new players. overall it dousnt favour fair ballance imo, but could make battles more interesting again if alot of people roll shielder. moar ''testing'' is needed , specially wanna see how this works out in group play. still sceptical thow.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Gurnisson on January 15, 2013, 06:00:23 am
I understand what you're saying completely, my question was, if 1h/shield is so much easier than 2h, why go back to 2h?

This question fits well with you choosing your gear based on stats. You're playing this pretty seriously.

I choose gear based on looks, choose class and playstyle based on how fun they are etc. Maybe Banok just found shielding more dull?
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Paul on January 15, 2013, 06:58:12 am
You are all blind lobbyists beyond hope. Picked a class in 2010 to lobby for it forever. Not being able to play another class open-minded after that. Sorry, but that's my impression. So all that "feedback" is worthless (to me at least).
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Banok on January 15, 2013, 12:04:48 pm
Shields are great if you don't know how to block and feint properly, but as soon as you got a good blocking skills, 2h spam gets alot more viable. More damage, more reach, not any noticable difference in attack speed. And as always, when a class that isnt 2hers get buffed abit, all you 2h heroes start shitting bricks and crying like fucking babies, like always.

theres always whine from all classes, acting like its only 2h who complain is incredibly stupid. even you 1hs whine just as much if not more, the voting in this thread proves my point. even tho I'm pretty sure over the years since crpg came out everything has been repeatively nerfed, except 1h.

edit: I think paul is kind of right tho.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Leshma on January 15, 2013, 12:09:21 pm
You are all blind lobbyists beyond hope. Picked a class in 2010 to lobby for it forever. Not being able to play another class open-minded after that. Sorry, but that's my impression. So all that "feedback" is worthless (to me at least).

Honestly, I don't understand why Rufio is complaining. He uses DGS which is still better than most one handed weapons in duel because of godly lolstab. However, two handed weapons that don't have thrust are at serious disadvantage when fighting one handers. Kicks are more risky than ever, hiltslashing doesn't work very well, for stun you need quite a lot of PS. Only time when I killed some dude who can block decently in reasonable time is when I faked missed overhead and lured him to attack me, finishing him with right swing to the head. That's not easy to pull of and that's practically only thing Dadao (which I've been using) has against someone who uses fast one hander.

What I want to say is, if you remove lolstab from 2H weapons they will be in line or worse than polearms/1H weapons. Lolstab is what makes them powerful.

I hope that new game won't have silly restrictions like this mod has and that every weapon will be usable in every direction but with reduced effectiveness. Want to stab with Nodachi (for example), not a problem but it will be extremely clumsy and slow and deal way less damage than with proper piercing sword. That's what I want to see, not removing attack directions just because weapon isn't made specifically for it.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Strudog on January 15, 2013, 01:13:03 pm
1hs have always been good, just not many people know how to use them effectively, E.g. Dahli probably one of the best 1h's in the game can roll a team and be very effective in a gank, it hurts like hell every time he hits me and i run lordly Armour, these damn 1h's have probably the best life out of any class in c-rpg. They can avoid range, ganks, do a lot of damage with minimal power strike, (especially that warhammer).

Now that kick has been nerfed, these damn shielders can face hug and dart around you all they want, its plain stupidity
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: rufio on January 15, 2013, 01:57:53 pm
nobody cares about you paul you suck at the game and you have been  biased towards archery yourself so hypocrit much, leshma just seems to be living in the past it seems, also as far as i know no nodachis in new game haha. leshma i use heavy greatsword on my main. and  yet again i play 1handed with shield most nowerdays. just saying its gotten piss eazy.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Falka on January 15, 2013, 02:20:05 pm
nobody cares about you paul you suck at the game   and you have been  biased towards archery yourself so hypocrit much, leshma just seems to be living in the past it seems, also as far as i know no nodachis in new game haha. leshma i use heavy greatsword on my main. and  yet again i play 1handed with shield most nowerdays. just saying its gotten piss eazy.

 :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Kafein on January 15, 2013, 02:59:32 pm
You are all blind lobbyists beyond hope. Picked a class in 2010 to lobby for it forever. Not being able to play another class open-minded after that. Sorry, but that's my impression. So all that "feedback" is worthless (to me at least).

The more balanced the complaints are, the better balance is. That is, when we will reach a state where all lobbyists of all classes feel equally underpowered, then its probable that a good balance has been found. We are not very far away from it and that didnt changed much over the last year.


In any case, strong or not there aren't enough shielders around, and the things that were fixed in the last update were partly responsible. The other part being the terrible stats of 1h weapons compared to the advantage of having a shield in melee, which I think is not in the shielders advantage, even now.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Dalhi on January 15, 2013, 03:00:59 pm
Buff Scimitar.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Strudog on January 15, 2013, 03:01:05 pm
The other part being the terrible stats of 1h weapons compared to the advantage of having a shield in melee

lol
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Kafein on January 15, 2013, 03:06:06 pm
lol

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


lol

also the poleaxe has shieldbreak, cut, blunt, instastab pierce and knockdown.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Strudog on January 15, 2013, 03:15:57 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


lol

also the poleaxe has shieldbreak, cut, blunt, instastab pierce and knockdown.

3x times the price, so you are saying the HBS should have the same effectiveness as the poleaxe? Thats just retarded, compare similar things please
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Leshma on January 15, 2013, 03:19:14 pm
HBS is just 200 gold more expensive than my Dadao and so much better. If not for Great sword, HBS could be the most OP 2H weapon atm.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Kafein on January 15, 2013, 03:21:08 pm
3x times the price, so you are saying the HBS should have the same effectiveness as the poleaxe? Thats just retarded, compare similar things please

I'm not comparing the two. I tried to find some 1h weapon even half as OP as any of these, but I couldn't.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Gurnisson on January 15, 2013, 03:24:41 pm
I'm not comparing the two. I tried to find some 1h weapon even half as OP as any of these, but I couldn't.

Italian Sword, Steel Pick, Military Hammer, Elite Scimitar. There you go
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Strudog on January 15, 2013, 03:36:41 pm
Italian Sword, Steel Pick, Military Hammer, Elite Scimitar. There you go

Warhammer, Arabian cav sowrd (off horseback)
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Macropus on January 15, 2013, 03:57:42 pm
I can't say any class is OP right now...
(click to show/hide)

As for non-stabbing 2h weapons, I like it. I had a two or three gens with my agi 2hander with Miaodao, and it was real fun. Miaodao is a perfect spamming weapon (spamming is what I did a lot  :) ). It combines a great cut damage with recently buffed speed and nice range.
PS: 2h stab is gay and ugly.
PPS: but then I went back to shielder, because 2h is nearly useless against archers, and as shieder I can deal with any class (some easier and some harder), but no one can kill a shielder easily (like archers kill slow 2hers or like 2hers kill pikemen). This universality is what I like.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Angantyr on January 15, 2013, 05:40:20 pm
I choose gear based on looks, choose class and playstyle based on how fun they are
Hearken, hearken!
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: _GTX_ on January 15, 2013, 05:44:34 pm
nobody cares about you paul you suck at the game

Im sry, but i think he can beat ur ass.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Elindor on January 15, 2013, 05:49:59 pm
3x times the price, so you are saying the HBS should have the same effectiveness as the poleaxe? Thats just retarded, compare similar things please

Aside from "peasant gear", balancing items by price is a bad idea imho - in game economies always inflate out of control.

Items should primarily be balanced by factors like length, weight, speed, damage, special effects, etc.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Rebelyell on January 15, 2013, 05:50:09 pm
nobody cares about you paul you suck at the game and you have been  biased towards archery yourself so hypocrit much, leshma just seems to be living in the past it seems, also as far as i know no nodachis in new game haha. leshma i use heavy greatsword on my main. and  yet again i play 1handed with shield most nowerdays. just saying its gotten piss eazy.
rufio sorry i bring that on
I am not best duelist but i was able to kill your main lvl 34 and 35 if i remember proper with my char on lvl 24 several times in the row
and who like who but you should not call peps noobs, because you are not the best at that game and that is just silly.


I agree with you at point then 1h is not UP, some 1h weapons are stupidly powerfull in some situations but it is same with any class, all depend on player and sytuation
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Kafein on January 15, 2013, 06:00:31 pm
Italian Sword, Steel Pick, Military Hammer, Elite Scimitar. There you go

weak, short as hell, slow, weak again ?

Warhammer, Arabian cav sowrd (off horseback)

short, slooooooooooooooooow. Also the ACS will bounce off anything not exactly in front of the user.


I not saying those are very bad, but no 1h weapon is stupidly powerful compared to almost all other melee weapons, the HBS and poleaxe are. The 2h and pole categories always had less internal balance than 1h. As a result, even if the weapon classes were relatively ok balanced as a whole, the best 2h and pole always were far superior to the best 1h.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Falka on January 15, 2013, 06:27:47 pm
the HBS

I don't get it, why HBS, why not Longsword? I would take 1 more dmg for 1 less speed any day.

Also the ACS will bounce off anything not exactly in front of the user.
:rolleyes: You're kidding, right? Right???  :?
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Jarlek on January 15, 2013, 06:48:33 pm
I don't get it, why HBS, why not Longsword? I would take 1 more dmg for 1 less speed any day.
I would take the 1 speed over the 1 damage if the 1 damage was cut. If it was blunt or pierce, then that's another story.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Strudog on January 15, 2013, 06:50:20 pm
weak, short as hell, slow, weak again ?

short, slooooooooooooooooow. Also the ACS will bounce off anything not exactly in front of the user.


Short? No, weak? are you kidding me?



short, slooooooooooooooooow. Also the ACS will bounce off anything not exactly in front of the user.


You are telling me the ACS bounces from horseback? What game are you playing?
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Grumbs on January 15, 2013, 06:54:37 pm
It should be a trade off between defence and offence. If you have near 360 degree invulnerability against ranged and melee and can block multiple directions at once with one key press, well you should get some downsides to that in your offensive capability.

The only real downside I see with 1 handers is the length, but I wouldn't say they're short. I don't feel like I get much range advantage against a shielder with a swinging polearm (except the likes of the glaive), and the right swing can be longer than you might expect. Left swing can be so fast that I need to block multiple times before I can get one hit in. The blunt & pierce weapons can be especially devastating, and 1 handers naturally are more likely to hit the head than other weapons

The ability to block projectiles without having to switch from your main weapon is pretty godlike too in cRPG
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Macropus on January 15, 2013, 06:59:23 pm
The only real downside I see with 1 handers is the length
Well, how about damage? I would say - downsides of 1h is range and damage. As it should be.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Grumbs on January 15, 2013, 07:02:21 pm
Depends on the weapon, but generally yes the cut ones especially do lower damage. But I get hit in the head by 1 handers way more than other classes, and thats 150% more damage I believe, and the head is more likely to have less armour in the first place

Some of the pierce/blunt ones do very comparable damage to 2 handers/poles
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Erzengel on January 15, 2013, 07:03:37 pm
Short? No, weak? are you kidding me?

So Steel Pick (64 length) and Warhammer (65 length) are not short in your opinion?  :rolleyes:

I am not saying that they are weak by the way.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Jarlek on January 15, 2013, 07:05:42 pm
So Steel Pick (64 length) and Warhammer (65 length) are not short in your opinion?  :rolleyes:
Well, ofc the Mallet (83) and Great Maul (80) is short, but 65 length 1handers are not.

Silly Erzengel...
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Falka on January 15, 2013, 07:07:47 pm
If you have near 360 degree invulnerability against ranged

Just lol. Shielder against 2 not braindead archers is dead shielder.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Rebelyell on January 15, 2013, 07:08:30 pm
Well, ofc the Mallet (83) and Great Maul (80) is short, but 65 length 1handers are not.

Silly Erzengel...

right swing and tadam!!!
warchamer outreach malet 0o
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Berserkadin on January 15, 2013, 07:17:42 pm
If you have near 360 degree invulnerability against ranged and melee
WAT?
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Jarlek on January 15, 2013, 07:20:16 pm
right swing and tadam!!!
warchamer outreach malet 0o
Excuse me, what game are you playing? 1h Right swing does NOT give you 18 more reach than ANY 2h swing.

Some people.... So biased it hurts my mind.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Macropus on January 15, 2013, 07:20:23 pm
Btw, what we're doing right now is basically discussing whether 1h is OP or not, but our opinion mainly depends on our personal experience (like how often we have been killed by 1h or how often we didn't manage to kill someone else with 1h  :D ), which makes our statements partly (or mainly) biased.
This of course applies to any balance discussion...
I think we better just look at stats:
Hm, let's see, most cut 1h have about 30 damage, same goes for blunt or pierce (which are shorter though).
Most cut 2h have about 40 damage, a bit less for pierce/blunt, but that compensates with shieldbreaking or something else.
As for polearms, they have crazy diversity so i'm not even talking about it, but for stats it's pretty alike with 2h.

So, as we can conclude now, is 1h OP comparing with 2h or polearms?
Let's think... eh... I don't know.  :cry:

Leave balancing to devs then, maybe?
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Grumbs on January 15, 2013, 07:21:46 pm
Couldn't count the amount of times i've hit a shielder in the back and he blocks it. Against ranged there is a forcefield but probably back hits are not hitting the shield like melee. I could have split the sentence and mentioned melee separate from ranged

But its still a hell of a nice bonus to have with your main weapon in a game filled with ranged. Its melee its still nice to not worry about manual blocking or being able to block more than 1 direction at once, and get out of outnumbered situations
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Jarlek on January 15, 2013, 07:25:48 pm
Couldn't count the amount of times i've hit a shielder in the back and he blocks it. Against ranged there is a forcefield but probably back hits are not hitting the shield like melee. I could have split the sentence and mentioned melee separate from ranged

But its still a hell of a nice bonus to have with your main weapon in a game filled with ranged. Its melee its still nice to not worry about manual blocking or being able to block more than 1 direction at once, and get out of outnumbered situations
When you attacked the shielder from behind, was it a sideswing? They sometimes go around the character and get blocked by the shield. Works the other way too as you can swing "around" the shield and hit a shielder facing you. Ridiculous either way. Oh, same is for manual block and blocking sideswings. Better to do stabs/overheads when you backstab people or wait for the guy to not be blocking.

As for using shield against ranged. Remember that most shields slow your movement down a lot. It's like having a Maul or Mallet on your back. Sure, against individual ranged you are 100% safe, but when there is more they can easily flank you as you often got the same/slower speed then them AND you can't sprint because you got the shield up. I personally find it easier going for archers without a shield because when I am sprinting and dodging the arrows of 1 ranged, I am automatically dodging the arrows/bolts of ALL ranged, no matter if I know about them or not.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Angantyr on January 15, 2013, 07:26:59 pm
Some 1h weapons may look weaker dam wise on paper but on average I get two-three hit with any decent weapon no matter weapon class. We can agree they are certainly shorter, though.

Just an observation, not class lobbyism for or against anything, I really like all Medieval weaponry and think the mod is pretty balanced. If anything 'imbalance' is between individual weapons in individual situations and not between 'classes', which is really just an arbitrary construct.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Kafein on January 15, 2013, 07:28:11 pm
right swing and tadam!!!
warchamer outreach malet 0o

No it does not. If that ever happens, it's bad timing by the maul user.
Title: Re: did one handed turn speed get adjusted??
Post by: Mlekce on January 15, 2013, 11:35:32 pm
i am 1h and this is terrible. I want old system back.
Every time i get used to something it gets changed.