Combat has turned into to a fuckin crowd surfing contest where its up to who can spam the most left an right swings in a large crowd before dying.......... revert the fuckin shit change all rdy god....
mod is boring..... Yawns..
Just for the record, Teeth is playing as pikemen this gen :wink:
Just for the record, Teeth is playing as pikemen this gen :wink:Yes, but my class has got squat to do with my appreciation of the turn rate nerf as I only started playing it after the turn rate nerf. In fact the removal of the turn rate nerf would mean that I would have to learn longspearing all over again. I don't even have a clue about how it used to work. Also, the effectivity of longspears was hurt very little with the turn rate nerf.
Good for long weapons, bad short weapons.I hope this means that you voted bad?
Actually if we had different, more compact animations and if backpeddaling swings glanced most of the time, turn rate nerf wouldn't be needed at all.
Me too. But thats not the point, it sucks (for me personal) even more when playing my 1h alt, and also sucks when playing my 2h gaysword alt (all 2h sword were affected less than all other weapons, but still).
It just sucks in general, thats a fact.
What Tzar said, too.
Yes, but my class has got squat to do with my appreciation of the turn rate nerf as I only started playing it after the turn rate nerf. In fact the removal of the turn rate nerf would mean that I would have to learn longspearing all over again. I don't even have a clue about how it used to work. Also, the effectivity of longspears was hurt very little with the turn rate nerf.
I hope this means that you voted bad?
I hope this means that you voted bad?
What am I supposed to vote if I think that in the current state it is bad, but it should be reworked to work properly, instead of just being reverted? You know, the weight+lenght depending speed penalty, and perhaps even making overhead turnspeed faster than stab turnspeed, except for crusthrough weapons. If the patch will lead to such a change (and the change proves to be good, which I can't judge right now), then it would be wrong to vote "bad"... :?Voting bad means that you think the game is worse off than before the turn rate nerf. Voting bad does not however mean that you think there wasn't a point in the turn rate nerf, nor does it mean that the game used to be perfect. It you think the change should be either reworked, removed or reduced then vote bad. You should not vote on any speculations about future patches, it is just about a before and after comparison.
no jumping with pikes
Not sure if possible (probably not) but does dynamic turnrate depending on weapon speed/length/weight (or any combination of those) sound good?
Not sure if possible (probably not) but does dynamic turnrate depending on weapon speed/length/weight (or any combination of those) sound good?Only if it could make 2hs count for at least 50+ reach due to god animations.
Not sure if possible (probably not) but does dynamic turnrate depending on weapon speed/length/weight (or any combination of those) sound good?Requires a lot of thought, but if well thought through, then yes. I see point in roflcopterstabbing with very long weapons being undesirable and the 180 overheads with a great maul are a bit nasty too. Maybe some amazing formula, otherwise weapon specific changes would do too. It all depends on what is possible o course.
Not sure if possible (probably not) but does dynamic turnrate depending on weapon speed/length/weight (or any combination of those) sound good?It sounds like a good idea, would maybe work if all melee weapons did not have similar weights.
Turn speed nerf is utter shit. This game has become too easy.
I was supposed to <insert made up reason here> but it failed catastrophically so plz revert kthx.
I suggest you fix your avatar, old chap. Nobody would listen to a naked man.
I was supposed to <insert made up reason here> but it failed catastrophically so plz revert kthx.
Polearm overheads were (and still are) completely shit, so the turn rate nerf had no effect with my least used attack direction.
Not sure if possible (probably not) but does dynamic turnrate depending on weapon speed/length/weight (or any combination of those) sound good?
If it was a perfect world, the turn rate nerf would be rolled back, stab sweet spots would be returned to how they were previously and the penalties to athletics would be flat reductions instead of being percentage-based.That wouldn't be buffing ath stackers, it'd be buffing armor.
One thing the turn speed nerf did was push the metagame more towards balanced builds which is a good thing. However, I think that can be better accomplished by making penalties to athletics flat reductions instead of percentage-based.
If athletics was more viable, the game itself would speed up due to people being able to move and adjust faster. At that point, who cares if people can do 180 degree instant turns?
A dynamic turnrate based on weapon length and weight would be the best solution in my view.
Am I the only person on the internet that doesn't give into Ad Hominem ?You should be made Forum Moderator!
I fear that would give more advantage to 1h especially without shield, do we really need more left swing spammers?1h with a shield takes way more skill than greatsword or glaive or pretty much every other thing 'cept 1h without a shield, hoplite and longspear/pikeman.
1h with a shield takes way more skill than greatsword or glaive or pretty much every other thing 'cept 1h without a shield, hoplite and longspear/pikeman.
ill have to ask you to explain how does 1h/shield take more skill than 2h or polearms?Low reach, low (lower than several 2hs) speed, low damage, animations prone to glancing. Most people are good enough to block several people at once and to block pretty much every feint... also, the 1h left swing is overrated and against bad players you can duck beneath it, you can hiltslash with a 2h/pole with decent damage much faster than a 1h left swing can swing, and if you move into the swing it'll glance if you wear the least bit of armor.
In Zlischworld everything makes sense.inb4 you try to claim playing with a greatsword takes skill.
Low reach, low (lower than several 2hs) speed, low damage, animations prone to glancing. Most people are good enough to block several people at once and to block pretty much every feint... also, the 1h left swing is overrated and against bad players you can duck beneath it, you can hiltslash with a 2h/pole with decent damage much faster than a 1h left swing can swing, and if you move into the swing it'll glance if you wear the least bit of armor.
Admittedly I am biased in my view of this as I play a 12/27 light armor 1h pretty purely.
how can u say speed?! crazyA lot of shorter 2hs are faster than all the 1hs I can recall that got over 90 reach. And while some 1hs (like an espada) got high stab damage then they're purely stabbing weapons, the short espada is barely viable for swinging and because the 1h stab animation is one of the worst in the game they still don't deal that high damage. I also personally barely ever leftswing due to the extraordinary short reach and the animations in general unstability, if your enemy walks left while you swing it's easy for him to make you glance, while it is quite fast then good 2h players can abuse their animations to hit faster, and the auto aiming for head is a double edged sword, I often just duck when fighting worse 1h players and the swing will miss.
dmg, ofc it has lower damage then a 2 meter big ass sword or polearm, but if you want to dissect you can see that some stabs are innsane, bigger than greatswords so you arent correct here.
left swing hits directly your face, with 100ish speed im dead in less than a second that makes your agi shielder spam 3 swings.
and most of all you dont have to learn to block. right click is all u need, no direction.
mind you i also despise those high level agi stacking 2hers that abuse the shit out of animations but you really cant say board and sword takes more skill than 2h m8
A lot of shorter 2hs are faster than all the 1hs I can recall that got over 90 reach. And while some 1hs (like an espada) got high stab damage then they're purely stabbing weapons, the short espada is barely viable for swinging and because the 1h stab animation is one of the worst in the game they still don't deal that high damage. I also personally barely ever leftswing due to the extraordinary short reach and the animations in general unstability, if your enemy walks left while you swing it's easy for him to make you glance, while it is quite fast then good 2h players can abuse their animations to hit faster, and the auto aiming for head is a double edged sword, I often just duck when fighting worse 1h players and the swing will miss.
Maybe you can duck left swings with 9 speed but not everybody (yet) is agi whoring.Check the website stats. the 1h left swing is fast, right swing is slow, stab is shit, overhead is hard to land but is also quite fast. You can get your 2h bastard sword to hit faster than you could with a 1h left swing, due to the 2h swings extremely userfriendly animations.
Your clames about 1h and 2h speeds i still find crazy.
Check the website stats. the 1h left swing is fast, right swing is slow, stab is shit, overhead is hard to land but is also quite fast. You can get your 2h bastard sword to hit faster than you could with a 1h left swing, due to the 2h swings extremely userfriendly animations.
I hate the turn speed nerf more then I hate all ranged combined.
Most of you know that is a lot of hate!
so Bastard sword is a holy weapon? the fact you need 15/over9000 build to hop in and out of battles due to shit range doesnt matter at all?
This very argument could be applied to all 1hs.
as i said not everybody plays super fast builds. id take sow over bastard any day.
plus youre clinging to one weapon on particular yet you somehow forgot that greatswords were recently nerfed.
Not just one weapon, all swords up to longsword are faster than some high tier 1h swords, ofc you can decide to trade in the speed for even more damage and length, same way you can trade the damage and length from the real viable 1hs into something really short but also faster/just as fast as the bastard sword.
There is nothing really you can say to convince me that 2h wepons are faster than 1h. thats just...
high tier 1hers all i see is 97+ speed regular not loomed. really slow i must say.Bastard-longsword all got at least 100 speed if I recall correctly, maybe longsword only got 97 though, long since I was able to look.
Bastard-longsword all got at least 100 speed if I recall correctly, maybe longsword only got 97 though, long since I was able to look.
Good idea. Poorly executed (engine limitations or sloppy coders?)
Def. one of the reasons I stopped playing.
Ofc voted bad.
The problem with this poll is that it doesn't really differentiate between those who were unneccessarily affected by the change (namely short weapon overheads/stabs) and butthurt greatsword helicopters.
The former will dealt with by adjusting the change, the latter will be laughed at.
That wouldn't be buffing ath stackers, it'd be buffing armor.
The problem with this poll is that it doesn't really differentiate between those who were unneccessarily affected by the change (namely short weapon overheads/stabs) and butthurt greatsword helicopters.
The former will dealt with by adjusting the change, the latter will be laughed at.
The problem with this poll is that it doesn't really differentiate between those who were unneccessarily affected by the change (namely short weapon overheads/stabs) and butthurt greatsword helicopters.When? I am not exactly sure, but I think the turn rate nerf happened, what, like three months ago? Can't blame me for thinking the tweaking phase is already over. If revision is pending, then the poll has no more use anyway, cause that is all I am hoping to achieve. I just hope you put it somewhere near the top of the priorities list.
The former will dealt with by adjusting the change, the latter will be laughed at.
When? I am not exactly sure, but I think the turn rate nerf happened, what, like three months ago? Can't blame me for thinking the tweaking phase is already over. If revision is pending, then the poll has no more use anyway, cause that is all I am hoping to achieve. I just hope you put it somewhere near the top of the priorities list.
The problem with this poll is that it doesn't really differentiate between those who were unneccessarily affected by the change (namely short weapon overheads/stabs) and butthurt greatsword helicopters.
The former will dealt with by adjusting the change, the latter will be laughed at.
Bad, imo. I know it reduced some of the copter sillyness, but overall it made the game more dull. It was just more fun with the spin stabs.
The problem with this poll is that it doesn't really differentiate between those who were unneccessarily affected by the change (namely short weapon overheads/stabs) and butthurt greatsword helicopters.
The former will dealt with by adjusting the change, the latter will be laughed at.
The problem with this poll is that it doesn't really differentiate between those who were unneccessarily affected by the change (namely short weapon overheads/stabs) and butthurt greatsword helicopters.
The former will dealt with by adjusting the change, the latter will be laughed at.
How do you view the 2d polearms? That's my biggest gripe with the turn-nerf. Before they filled a niche being decent at supporting and decent for duels. After the turn-nerf they became quite bad in 1v1 while still being only decent for supporting, make them bad choices compared to long spears and pikes for supporting and a bad choice compared to poleaxes and other 4d polearms for duels. They don't really fill a good role anymore, like they did pre-nerf.
Yeah marcus abuses the shit out of the 2H stab, haha. German Greatsword is a beast. This has nothing to do with the turnspeed nerf I'm sorry.
Gurnisson's right. Forget 1Hs, 2D polearms were fucked the hardest by the turn-nerf. It's pretty telling when you see -zero- Swiss Halberds and English Bills on the battlefield.
I actually respecced to shielder because of the patch from crpg 2H hero with kuyak 8-)
Because of which patch? I've been playing for several years, and I don't recall 1h or shield ever receiving improvements of any kind, only nerfs. 2H generally got buffed in the last patch (especially longsword, which was already OP before it got faster and more damage). Even the German/Danish effectively got buffed, since speed is mostly irrelevant on 2h swords (since you can just turn into your side swings to hit for full damage before the animation even starts).
I am guessing he is talking about the spin nerf patch.
No... Because thrusting was made useless in general so why not just go with a one hander when you never use thrusts with that one... And personally I feel overheads were hurt more as a 2h but not on a big scale
I dunno, most of the 2h heroes I see all traded for +3 Great Swords (28p thrust) and go around lolstabbing to the top of the scoreboard, so I think (2h) thrusting is as good as ever.
2h stab is still pretty abusable, probably one of the things that got hit the least of the nerfs and hit not so strong classes as hoplites alot harder. It just dumbed down shit more.Hoplite still works really well, in a very similar way to longspear.
(click to show/hide)
So, basically:
- 2h stabs are pretty much unaffected and still overpowered
- 2h stabs are now useless
- hoplites are not viable anymore
- hoplites weren't hit that hard
How am i supposed to take you guys seriously?
Well, hoplite is a subset of 2d polearms.
So, basically:
- 2h stabs are pretty much unaffected and still overpowered
- 2h stabs are now useless
- hoplites are not viable anymore
- hoplites weren't hit that hard
How am i supposed to take you guys seriously?
*hoplites are still pretty good because the ashwood pike is crazy good
People say the Ashwood is the ideal choice, but looking around a bit makes me doubt that. Although there are a lot of players who do alright with it, I don't see many of the people who are good/outstanding at the playstyle on NA using it over other weapons; Malaclypse and Sherben like the Red Tassel Spear, Beeper uses a War Spear, Chestaclese uses a Battle Fork, and Zan uses a Light Lance.Ashwood pike is like a longspear with a shield = OP
There might be some other considerations governing their choice of weapons besides minmaxing though.
Ashwood pike is like a longspear with a shield = OPLongspear or whatever Teeth uses in strat battles is OP, nerf it pls :rolleyes:
So, basically:
- 2h stabs are pretty much unaffected and still overpowered
- 2h stabs are now useless
- hoplites are not viable anymore
- hoplites weren't hit that hard
How am i supposed to take you guys seriously?
People say the Ashwood is the ideal choice, but looking around a bit makes me doubt that. Although there are a lot of players who do alright with it, I don't see many of the people who are good/outstanding at the playstyle on NA using it over other weapons; Malaclypse and Sherben like the Red Tassel Spear, Beeper uses a War Spear, Chestaclese uses a Battle Fork, and Zan uses a Light Lance.
There might be some other considerations governing their choice of weapons besides minmaxing though.
turn rate nerf made 1h overhead, and 1h stab, absolutely worthless, whilst making 2h and the stab from several polearms literally instant (as in unchamberable) ...
pre nerf someone with a greatsword tries to stab you = chamber, now it's literally impossible
I am a little skeptical of you saying that you easily chamber helicopter lolstabs.
turn rate nerf made 1h overhead, and 1h stab, absolutely worthless, whilst making 2h and the stab from several polearms literally instant (as in unchamberable) ...Didn't you want chambering removed anyway?
pre nerf someone with a greatsword tries to stab you = chamber, now it's literally impossible
I am a little skeptical of you saying that you easily chamber helicopter lolstabs.Actually I used to think chambering 2h stabs was a lot easier. Chambering used to be my default tactic against 2h heroes as a German Poleaxer, overhead chamber, 45c to the face. The old 2h stab was turnable, but also reliable. The hit always came at the same moment in the stab animation. So at whatever angle they stabbed, the bit of the animation that was chamberable was always the same. As soon as you got a feel for it, it was decently easy to chamber. It was almost like the hit was at a fixed point in the animation.
Honestly I feel the same way as our beloved cow about this. I had troubles chamberblocking turning stabs and overheads but I completely lost the timing since the turn nerf, so now I can't chamberblock any stab consistently at all. I don't really use that often either so... whatever.Had almost forgotten to 1+ that.
90 percent of the time I lose 1v1's because of a missed overhead. Even though on my screen it looks like it goes right through the enemy.
I hope they look into this.
Actually I used to think chambering 2h stabs was a lot easier. Chambering used to be my default tactic against 2h heroes as a German Poleaxer, overhead chamber, 45c to the face. The old 2h stab was turnable, but also reliable. The hit always came at the same moment in the stab animation. So at whatever angle they stabbed, the bit of the animation that was chamberable was always the same. As soon as you got a feel for it, it was decently easy to chamber. It was almost like the hit was at a fixed point in the animation.
Currently, that is not the case at all. At close range you can do up down swipes with a 2h, much like a longspear, that do complete insta hits, while also being able to drag it into enemies, with the hit being ridiculously late. The hit can occur at any point in the animation. I think the same was changed for polearms. I can do much faster hits with longspears if I do them very close up, compared to dragging them into enemies. This combined with the borky hit detection, which makes the actual hit sometimes occuring after the blade hits you, or before, makes chambering stabs in general but mostly 2h stabs very dodgy. So you can no longer count doing the chamber at a set moment after the stab started, and the visual cue is very borked as well.
turn rate nerf made 1h overhead, and 1h stab, absolutely worthless,Funny thing, yesterday on one map 12 out of 13 my frags was made with 1h stab... "Absolutely worthless", indeed :rolleyes: If native pro says so it has to be true.
bundle of stickstack
Owned by forum censor
Well "I can't do it, why can you ?" isn't much better.
Where did I say that?
You didn't, but trying to prove points about balance first arguing you are an average player then stating what you have troubles doing isn't actual argumentation either.
I wasn't arguing, I was stating what I've found from playing.
On an off note, this is why the suggestions corner is emptier than it used to be. People get really hung up on wording and phrasing.
And if you mean balancing the game around an average player is a bad idea, who do we balance it around?
I'm a mediocre player, but with 27/15 1h build and +3 Long espada eslavona (31 pierce dmg) stab almost never glances :wink:(click to show/hide)
I'm a mediocre player, but with 27/15 1h build and +3 Long espada eslavona (31 pierce dmg) stab almost never glances :wink:
Ever fought Pue and his miadaodaodoadaodoaodooadadoa ?LeoPueSth? Sure, why do you ask?
I'm a mediocre player, but with 27/15 1h build and +3 Long espada eslavona (31 pierce dmg) stab almost never glances :wink:
it's also up to the person who is getting stabbed to make it glance by staying at almost max range and whenever you see a stab, s key so it bounces and then you get a free hit in.That means on this side of the Atlantic we have no "half decent players" (or I didn't meet them) because at max range my LEE doesn't glances at all.
When the enemy does that it is completely useless and literally every half decent player does that.
That means on this side of the Atlantic we have no "half decent players" (or I didn't meet them) because at max range my LEE doesn't glances at all.
I don't get why you are bringing NA and EU into this considering I play on both frequently (atleast both duel servers) and I do it constantly to every 1hander.It wasn't my intention :wink: From my experience +3 LEE thrust doesn't glance at max range, at least not with 9 PS. That's all.
It wasn't my intention :wink: From my experience +3 LEE thrust doesn't glance at max range, at least not with 9 PS. That's all.
Yesterday I fought that HRE guy with a stabby 1h on siege. We met like 10 times and I died to him once. Every other attack he tried to stab and it was so ridiculous, even a perfectly executed stab glanced on my 66 armorIf you're talking about Erzengal and his +3 italian sword I find it hard to believe that his "perfectly executed stab glanced". If it glanced then it wasn't perfect nor even good.
Weapon balance shouldn't be done off heirlooms or extreme builds. Pretty sure you'd be hard put to glance with any of the 1h stabs with 9PS8-9 PS is pretty common among 1hrs I think. And you can not expect to be as effective with stabs and swings as more powerful builds. I find 1h stab really powerful and pretty easy to use (without shield, dunno how it works with shield) and I'm very far from being pro, so from my perspective thrust is fine. But that's just my 2 cents :wink:
If you're talking about Erzengal and his +3 italian sword I find it hard to believe that his "perfectly executed stab glanced". If it glanced then it wasn't perfect nor even good.(click to show/hide)
stab [...] glanced [...] my 66 armor
- At 60 armor cut is about 83% weaker than blunt
- At 70+ armor cut glances always
This, gentlemen, is why 1H cut (lowest overall damage weapon type) sucks on tincans.
For example, I rarely glanced on your plated head with just 6 PS and regular Italian Falchion (which is terribly short weapon but I think that helps to avoid glancing).
That means on this side of the Atlantic we have no "half decent players"
MW Military cleaver has 38 cut and 92 reach so it should be considered a very good weapon then
People say the Ashwood is the ideal choice, but looking around a bit makes me doubt that. Although there are a lot of players who do alright with it, I don't see many of the people who are good/outstanding at the playstyle on NA using it over other weapons; Malaclypse and Sherben like the Red Tassel Spear, Beeper uses a War Spear, Chestaclese uses a Battle Fork, and Zan uses a Light Lance.
There might be some other considerations governing their choice of weapons besides minmaxing though.