Turn rate nerf good or bad for the game in general?

[Kafein]

Where did I say that?

You didn't, but trying to prove points about balance first arguing you are an average player then stating what you have troubles doing isn't actual argumentation either.

[LordRichrich]

You didn't, but trying to prove points about balance first arguing you are an average player then stating what you have troubles doing isn't actual argumentation either.

I wasn't arguing, I was stating what I've found from playing.

On an off note, this is why the suggestions corner is emptier than it used to be. People get really hung up on wording and phrasing.

And if you mean balancing the game around an average player is a bad idea, who do we balance it around?

[Kafein]

I wasn't arguing, I was stating what I've found from playing.

On an off note, this is why the suggestions corner is emptier than it used to be. People get really hung up on wording and phrasing.

And if you mean balancing the game around an average player is a bad idea, who do we balance it around?

I think it's a good idea to balance the game around average players (because they are those that everybody learns to kill effectively, hence why even good players spam but I digress). However, there is no "average player" there are average players of all kinds, with all builds and equipments, and they can't really be compared.

[Falka]

(click to show/hide)

A lot of point here are "I can do well with it, it must be fine"
Well y'know, pretty sure Tommy or Poopy or Parre or Alpha or Bjord or GTX or Phase or etc etc could beat me with a wooden stick if I was in +3 plate. So wooden stick is OP, no?

You've got to look at the AVERAGE player. Now with the raise in average skill level, it is hard to tell the average player. I would like to propose that I am such a player though.

My nicks are/were:
Templar_Richard (pole cav/hoplite)
Templar_Wolfgang (1h/2h/thrower) (used to be xbow + 2h)
Dagobert_Tux (flamberge)
(Now deleted) Canavan (1h+shield)

^ That's so, if any of you remember me, you know I'm not awesome at the game ^

Now Richard is my main, and I used to love using the English bill on him. I admit, I did abuse the turn animations a little bit, but maybe they just didn't need to be reduced as drastically as they were? Now I don't own any inf 2D weapons, purely because they aren't as long as the long spear and quite a lot when I do the overhead the enemy easily side steps or my team mate dances in the way. My main weapon of choice on foot (which isn't often because I hate polearm foot now, I never really used 4D polearms as I preffered the support role with the bill, is the long bardiche. It's ok, but I never overhead. Just left and right swing spam.

Wolfgang, nothing to say really. Too new to comment.

Dagobert, my lovely flamberge. I get most frags with this guy, probaly due to the really high damage, but also because it's really really easy (I've found) to spin slash with it. And by extension (from when I was using bastards and picking GS's off the floor) most 2h's. I never overhead or thrust (unless it's dehorsed enemy cav) as it's way too risky.

Canavan, 24/15 build. Quite strong, used light gear so I wasn't slow either (bascinet, plate mittens, aketon and splinted greaves with spurs or w/e) I used the broad short sword cos I loved the look of the weapon. So, what was I looking at here?

speed rating: 102
weapon length: 86
thrust damage: 26 pierce
swing damage: 28 cut

Well, I saw a short sword, with nice speed. And I thought "Well, that stab damage isn't too bad. I think the reduced cut damage is worth it!"
And yes I got kills with the stab! Quite a few infact. But oh wait, what's the point of pierce again? To go through armour! And what happend nearly every god damn time I went to stab anyone with 50+ armour (which isn't rare), I glanced. The way I killed the most heavily armoured guys I came across, was to slash their face till it fell off, and with 28 cut, it sometimes took quite a few hits.

TL;DR
I'm average (see above) and these are things I've found while playing: 2D polearms were nerfed into near ineffectiveness for me, and 8PS 26 stab 1h bounces off heavy armour a fair bit, which it is meant to work against. I'm not suggesting any fixes myself, but I can see how a slight increase in turn speed would help.

But y'know, now there's going to be a bunch of people quoting parts of this, taking out of context and the cRPG staple:

"I CAN DO IT, WHY CAN'T YOU?"

I'm a mediocre player, but with 27/15 1h build and +3 Long espada eslavona (31 pierce dmg) stab almost never glances 

[Kafein]

I'm a mediocre player, but with 27/15 1h build and +3 Long espada eslavona (31 pierce dmg) stab almost never glances 

Ever fought Pue and his miadaodaodoadaodoaodooadadoa ?

[Falka]

Ever fought Pue and his miadaodaodoadaodoaodooadadoa ?

LeoPueSth? Sure, why do you ask? 

[Berserkadin]

I'm a mediocre player, but with 27/15 1h build and +3 Long espada eslavona (31 pierce dmg) stab almost never glances 

Well you got 27 str, wonder why...

[Rebelyell]

1h stab is really powerfull and thx to your propaganda some peps seems to not block that,
That atack bounce a lot because you simply use it wrong, some peps try to stab in point blank... you cant do that with 2h(hard with lolstab but only with proper footwork or overhead lolstab that you can make wit 1h in the same way) and they cry how 1h stab is useless.
I really have to admit then there are some   players that figured out how to do that and they are really dangerous enemies, MW LEE can take over half my HP with 1 blow and most of the time I underestimate enemies with that weapon because.... because I am feed with that propaganda too.

But after all it takes some skill to do that proper, maybe is to much for normal player or maybe they are to lazy to try it out.

After all 1h stab is not so weak like peoples describe that.

[BADPLAYER_old2]

You are only facing bad players, making the 1h stab not glance is only half up to the person stabbing really, it's also up to the person who is getting stabbed to make it glance by staying at almost max range and whenever you see a stab, s key so it bounces and then you get a free hit in.

When the enemy does that it is completely useless and literally every half decent player does that.

[Falka]

it's also up to the person who is getting stabbed to make it glance by staying at almost max range and whenever you see a stab, s key so it bounces and then you get a free hit in.

When the enemy does that it is completely useless and literally every half decent player does that.

That means on this side of the Atlantic we have no "half decent players" (or I didn't meet them) because at max range my LEE doesn't glances at all.

[BADPLAYER_old2]

That means on this side of the Atlantic we have no "half decent players" (or I didn't meet them) because at max range my LEE doesn't glances at all.

I don't get why you are bringing NA and EU into this considering I play on both frequently (atleast both duel servers) and I do it constantly to every 1hander.

[Falka]

I don't get why you are bringing NA and EU into this considering I play on both frequently (atleast both duel servers) and I do it constantly to every 1hander.

It wasn't my intention From my experience +3 LEE thrust doesn't glance at max range, at least not with 9 PS. That's all.

[Rhaelys]

It wasn't my intention From my experience +3 LEE thrust doesn't glance at max range, at least not with 9 PS. That's all.

9 Power Strike is really high, on the level of "Strength Crutch". I would know, since I have 10.

[Kafein]

Yesterday I fought that HRE guy with a stabby 1h on siege. We met like 10 times and I died to him once. Every other attack he tried to stab and it was so ridiculous, even a perfectly executed stab glanced on my 66 armor so I was just trying to chamberblock it or completely ignoring that attack.

Also, his swings were bouncing too because stab 1h are bloody weak.

[LordRichrich]

Weapon balance shouldn't be done off heirlooms or extreme builds. Pretty sure you'd be hard put to glance with any of the 1h stabs with 9PS