And if your built doesn't allow to use the kind of weapon you need to defend yourself against a few 1337 players that went full archery to show everyone how pro they are.The kind of weapon you speak of is ten athlethics and an all around shield. I have no problem at all with ranged. If, once I've dodged half a dozen of missiles, they would stand and fight.
I hate using a shield, it shits on half the gameplay that I love. One does not throw away a huge part of his fun in a game to adapt to a class which could be simply fixed in a way that would be more fun to everyone. Oh and it blocks too slow for my twitchy playstyle.
The kind of weapon you speak of is ten athlethics and an all around shield. I have no problem at all with ranged. If, once I've dodged half a dozen of missiles, they would stand and fight.
They don't, every archer, save maybe 5%, is full archery. They all want that 10 more wpf instead of getting ps, and they all want those two stacks of bodkins instead of a sword. So they run away with their dinky little hammers. That should've been made impossible. Disable them from running away, because they are obviously not man enough to choose that option themselves, there is plenty of ways to do this. Named them about a hundred times already, take your pick. In return give them a lot more melee capabilities without touching their ranged capabilities.
There, game is fixed. Archers can shoot like they can now, can't run away, but have to switch to a melee weapon at which their characters are decently proficient. Now archers can also actually experience the reason why this game is the only game that really interests me. You guys will thank me later.
Devs can call me anyday for balance ideas, I'll have this game fixed in no time.
I hate using a shield, it shits on half the gameplay that I love. One does not throw away a huge part of his fun in a game to adapt to a class which could be simply fixed in a way that would be more fun to everyone. Oh and it blocks too slow for my twitchy playstyle.Archers don't need melee capabilities added, if the devs would scale ath effectivity for people with pd so that 10 ath wouldn't be much better than 5 ath for them they'd be able to make decent melee/my old friendcher hybrids, but, if kiting is taking out actual archery would need a small accuracy buff, a small speed buff, and, after making pierce damage longbow only, a small damage buff.
The kind of weapon you speak of is ten athlethics and an all around shield. I have no problem at all with ranged. If, once I've dodged half a dozen of missiles, they would stand and fight.
They don't, every archer, save maybe 5%, is full archery. They all want that 10 more wpf instead of getting ps, and they all want those two stacks of bodkins instead of a sword. So they run away with their dinky little hammers. That should've been made impossible. Disable them from running away, because they are obviously not man enough to choose that option themselves, there is plenty of ways to do this. Named them about a hundred times already, take your pick. In return give them a lot more melee capabilities without touching their ranged capabilities.
There, game is fixed. Archers can shoot like they can now, can't run away, but have to switch to a melee weapon at which their characters are decently proficient. Now archers can also actually experience the reason why this game is the only game that really interests me. You guys will thank me later.
Devs can call me anyday for balance ideas, I'll have this game fixed in no time.
they are faster so they runs away, why they are faster because game mechanics force hem to play like that.No, they're faster 'cuss playing like that is easier to get kills with no risk and therefore make gay builds to support that.
Teeth, I actually agree with you regarding kiting.That is because my unwillingness to adapt is because adapting would reduce my hands on time with the 4 directional deliciousness that makes this game into what it is, you know, the thing that got most of us to put 1000+ hours into this shit.
But did you notice what you just said?
You don't want to adapt your build to the situation and enemy class, but you want other players to adapt to the situation you prefer. You dont want to use a shield but you want to force Archers to change their build and get infantry skills.
You cannot ask for something if you dont want to give something. Thats wrong.
they do not fight in meele because they are better with bows, and only fool is trying to fight half naked withDid you read what I said at all? My point is exactly that they shouldn't be forced to play half naked with a hammer and no wpf. They should be forced to have armor, have a good weapon, have wpf, have powerstrike while keeping their ranged strength the same. The thing is, if you give them more room for melee capabilities now, they will just go, 'lol instead of 80 1h wpf, I'll just go 8 more archery wpf, cause I can run away anyway'.
no wpf in other weapon against some armored knight with op GS,
they are faster so they runs away, why they are faster because game mechanics force hem to play like that.
I don't really need shield to survive but dam its way easier with shield.
Archers don't need melee capabilities added, if the devs would scale ath effectivity for people with pd so that 10 ath wouldn't be much better than 5 ath for them they'd be able to make decent melee/my old friendcher hybrids, but, if kiting is taking out actual archery would need a small accuracy buff, a small speed buff, and, after making pierce damage longbow only, a small damage buff.They won't make hybrids, unless they are forced to. They will just go pure archery, because they have the ability to kite. Take away kiting, and they'll have to hybridize. Which will leave them as very weak archers. Therefore, buff their melee capabilities and force them on them, by removing kiting.
I have no problem at all with ranged. If, once I've dodged half a dozen of missiles, they would stand and fight.
They don't, every archer, save maybe 5%, is full archery.
Two slot bows require more than 133 wpp in archery to be effective.
That is because my unwillingness to adapt is because adapting would reduce my hands on time with the 4 directional deliciousness that makes this game into what it is, you know, the thing that got most of us to put 1000+ hours into this shit.
Their unwillingness to adapt comes from an incomprehensible unwillingness to play this game instead of your generic shooter but then with a bit more projectile drop, which could be easily fixed. Running away isn't fun for anyone, so disable them from doing it. What I am talking about is flawed game mechanics which should be changed. Not everyone's wish can be fulfilled. I would like to have a jetpack with hellfire missiles mounted on it, but that hardly be fun for anyone else. Same with running, apart from that not even being fun for themselves.
I once kited Vex with 0 ath for a while, it was the funnest thing ever.
Yeah, yeah, I sound like a douche, it's late and I'm tired.
It's just that the shoot and run archery mechanics are not like archery should be and we all know it. The fact that it's pretty easy to fix, yet won't ever happen, made me the bitter my old friend that I am know when it comes to archery.
Did you read what I said at all? My point is exactly that they shouldn't be forced to play half naked with a hammer and no wpf. They should be forced to have armor, have a good weapon, have wpf, have powerstrike while keeping their ranged strength the same. The thing is, if you give them more room for melee capabilities now, they will just go, 'lol instead of 80 1h wpf, I'll just go 8 more archery wpf, cause I can run away anyway'.
My entire post is about changing the game mechanics cause they are flawed, and yet you ramble on about the current mechanics.
Teeth, they don't have to do that, current archer mechanics allow for some decent body armor with NO penalties... and they can easily switch ath for ps, and they can easily switch 4 archery wpf for 49 melee wpf, they got fine melee capabilities, they just need the POSSIBILITY to make a gay kiting build removed, 'cuss else they'll abuse it, once they can't kite they'll need a slight ranged buff, but, besides that, nuthin'.
They won't make hybrids, unless they are forced to. They will just go pure archery, because they have the ability to kite. Take away kiting, and they'll have to hybridize. Which will leave them as very weak archers. Therefore, buff their melee capabilities and force them on them, by removing kiting.
REMOVE KITING!
Two slot bows require more than 133 wpp in archery to be effective.Then use this:
You seriously want me to melee anyone with 1 athletics?Tears, 1 ath is not that bad, and, I already said, you can get 4 ath once you hit 30...
I'll still die though even not counting the ping difference due to my one-button mouse.
one-button mouse.Seriously?
Have you tried playing an Archer with only 1 ATHL? I have done 0, 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 10. Anything less then 5 is just too painful.Tears, I told you, it'd be 4 at level 30, and, my archer alt, SoA_NCB_The_Unupkeepable, is 15/21, admittedly I got 7 ath here, but I wear heavy armor with this char, so it's basically 4 I'd guess.
if you can make that 1THL character be competitive as a melee/archer hybrid, then super kudos to you for being super duper awesome. I can't do it.
We need an idea for cav too though. Way too much power for a few points in riding and a bit of cash.Make heavy lance 3 slot, remove blocking from heavy lance, only solution, only nerf required.
You're telling me to incorporate a shield in my build, as I earlier mentioned being a shielder is not an option for me. A shield is fucking useless as a 2h or a polearm. Why? You can't use it while fighting, 80% of your time is spent fighting, which is when I get shot.
If you get shot while being in a fight, the Archer is playing his class.You misunderstand me. I am solely talking about the complete ineffectivity of having a shield on the side as a polearm or 2h in that post. As earlier mentioned, archery only pisses me off when I dodge my way to an archer and he starts running away. I am fine with archery in every other aspect. Getting shot while fighting is something I fully accept for the advantages of not having a shield.
You actually only complained about being kited before and now Archers aren't even allowed to play? :O
You misunderstand me. I am solely talking about the complete ineffectivity of having a shield on the side as a polearm or 2h in that post. As earlier mentioned, archery only pisses me off when I dodge my way to an archer and he starts running away. I am fine with archery in every other aspect. Getting shot while fighting is something I fully accept for the advantages of not having a shield.
Good teamplay beats anything that is "OP".
Changing your build and/or equipment in order to adapt to some "OP" enemy is totally unnecessary.Archery isn't OP, kiting isn't that OP, archery used with kiting is gay, 'cuss kiting is gay, op doesn't mater when it's gay, like spawnraping, or couching a guy who dehorsed you with his throwing lance in melee mode with his horse after he got off it in order to duel.
Not possible with random people.
Jarlek's musings:
What would happen if we removed the "transfer 2 Skillpoints to 1 Attribute" option?
I think a lot of things would change then.
Skald, every word you wrote is true.
I'm just going straight to it.
A part of people in this mod dont have to play, since they are already the best in this game, and everyting other people in this mod ever does is cheating/playing unfair since that is the only way to kill just you and these people are out trying to directly ruin the game for you personally. The feeling I have is that this person x(s) after being killed by an archer/horseman or whatever player/characterbuilds he despises, is closer to enter the forum and wanting this element removed from the game since it's just there to drag him down, than to enter the next round with a learned lesson at the back of his head that enemy archers had an tendency to strive that way, or cavalry roamed over there, and do his best to counter this and win with your team. Crpg is very much what you make of it yourself. This goes for other things to.
Basically, Crpg is not worth playing unless all the odds are in his favour. If they arent, then this game isnt worthy of his time, and it is a plain bad creation.
That this mindset is even slightly general afaik in Crpg annoys me more than that the longbow should have +1 speed, the sword of war +2 reach... etc.
Jarlek's musings:Horrible idea, stop hatin' on horsethrowers.
What would happen if we removed the "transfer 2 Skillpoints to 1 Attribute" option?
I think a lot of things would change then.
[...]I remember a map with a lake in the middle and I tried to get people running towards each other by asking my team to wait for the others to move and then charge...
The circle maps make me lose faith in humanity.
Being a long-spear-man on my main, i can only attest to the stupidity of the mob.
Things your average c-RPG player will do when faced with an enemy downblocking in front of a longspear/pike/hoplite:
a) Try and lolstab him with his greatsword (so fucking l33t!)
b) Keep his distance, do some feints for good measure
c) Run off, looking to backstab someone
d) Run off, looking to duel someone and get ganked instead
e) Teamhit the polearm user.
f) Keep his shield up forever and ever, try and facehug the enemy. If possible, move in front of the enemy, blocking the polearm user.
if they will remove WM Your desire will be fulfilled
Give everyone both melee and ranged abilities and let the best players come on top.
As people get better and better at melee, you need some other factors than melee to get the killing done fast. Those factors are ranged and cavalry!
It is sad that people do not try to improve themselves at melee, but resort to what many will look at as "cowardly" methods. Now the guy with zero skill at what this game really shines at, can get a skilled infantryman killed by loosing an arrow or bolt, or walking forward with a pony.
Its not about skill or no-skill, its about frags & scoreboard. All these shooters are good but the only way they can excel and get into the legend is by topping the scoreboard. I'll use Dave as example but you can apply it on any xbower/archer out there: he's perfectly good with 2handed weapon but often he can't survive long enough to top the board while with camping/hiding & shooting he gets 2 things: tons of free kills & starring role. Its better to be the one stealing rounds from all those who die to ranged right away then to be one of them and often not even making it into action on foot.
And I dont care about that cuz I dont wanna get a degree in "crpg melee" but just wanna play a game for a little and get some frags, thats all.
Yes I do get your point, and I respect it! The choice between melee and ranged might well as be as much about the time one is able to invest, not only preferences.
I do feel however we are seeing a kind of snowball effect, as more and more players figure out its easier to be ranged, and also less frustrating. You are in general alive longer in a round (if you have some awareness), and you can be perfectly effective at both ranged and melee combat in what is considered a "ranged" build (15/24 arbalest or 18/18 hornbow is an example). Blunt 1 slot weapons make it even more viable an option.
I also have to 2nd what Gnjus said:(click to show/hide)
Applause!(click to show/hide)
Make ALL the bows 1slot. Currently the expensive bows are 2slots, but without arrows they are not a weapon, so they are, realistically, 3slot weapons. Then, redefine the slots. I take Vikingr mod as my inspiration here, Vikingr being the single most polished mod I have ever seen: Archers are VERY powerful, but the slot system is reworked: Of the 4 slots, 2 are weapon slots, 1 is a shield only slot, and the last is an ammo only slot. Archers are therefor limited to ONE stack of arrows. So are throwers. Noone can spawn with 2 shields. The pure throwers in the game can spawn with a 12 stack of javelins. Melee classes can spawn with 2 weapons, a shield, AND 1 stack of 2 or 3 throwing weapons. Ranged hits hard, injustice. But ammo is very limited. During a round, players can loot more ammo, exceeding their spawn slot limitations (obviously, 4 slots max is hardcoded I believe), so by the end of some rounds, some players have only a 1hander and 3 stacks of javelins that they have looted, and use them to punish their enemies, but all in all, the balance WORKS.So, let me get this right, either 7 pt infantry hybrids will have 4 throwing lances for one slot while still having a good weapon and possibly a shield, or I would be limited to one throwing lance?
/rant
Datasette ftw :D
So, let me get this right, either 7 pt infantry hybrids will have 4 throwing lances for one slot while still having a good weapon and possibly a shield, or I would be limited to one throwing lance?
Also, this'd make every enemy in the game spawn with a shield, a turney shield if they got no shield skill, but, always a shield.
(yes Ive been a HA plenty, but never HX, or course, they are fantasy class and should be banned)wat
Well, I see no reason why they shouldnt have a shield, but just as now: ANYONE can spawn with 2hander or poleaxe, a 1hander and a shield. As to throwing lances: On my 7PT hybrid I took 2 lances, an axe or sword, and a shield. Nothing seems to have changed: Just because currently Lances are 1 per stack doesnt mean its some kinda hardcode, if slots available for ammo becomes 1, then lances would probably need a 2 per stack edit, but THAT being your problem is akin to saying feeding the entire world is a bad thing because of the carbon emmisions of flying the food to the starving...Ok, so, I'd have two stacks of throwing lances on my pure horsethrower build, two which is often not even enough to kill one guy, EVERY lancer would carry a shield, a lance, a poleaxe, and maybe some onehanded dagger in the rare event they need to fight with their shield up, sure seems like a great system to me!
Cav are not weak against archers, fuck, on my paper arabian I can often ride straight up to an archer, dodging every arrow he sends at me, bump-stab him with my throwing lance, then turn around and kill him in one throw, and when I'm riding a champ plated charger I've looted I don't even notice I've been shot due to the health on it being insane.
Archers were in a good place for a time.
Then they all got their bows and arrows masterworked and their builds perfected.
True, but usually you know half of the players on the server since months back so you can always find someone to team up with.
I think the problem is the mentality among players. They think it's so hard to teamplay they donät even bother trying it.
But I know what the biggest problem is when it comes to this:
Individual kills (not deaths).
Simply remove kills from the scoreboard and people have no reason to be greedy and try to get kills who could be made easier by someone else in the team.
Instead reward players for winning rounds. Sure we already have the multiplier but maybe their can be something more.
Some players win 9/10 rounds. What do they get? Nothing I would say.
Instead, show round wins in the scoreboard and add to it on the next map.
The one with most wins in a row on each team gets access to a new commander system.
Now, that would increase teamplay.
You're all having a thoughtful discussion on ranged/build mechanics, but I'd like to point out that another reason that ranged kiters are so annoying is because of actual GAME MECHANICS. Until the flags spawn, the only way to win the round in battle is to kill everyone on the other team. Melee is forced engage ranged kiters to win, or they can camp somewhere and wait for the flags. The same type of problem pops up on maps with towers; one team is forced to engage(to the defenders advantage in a tower) or camp until flags. Just make the flags spawn sooner and you wouldn't have to chase an archer for 3 minutes, and they wouldn't be annoying. When your only strategy to win is camping and avoiding battle until flags spawn; the spirit of the game is defeated.
tl;dr version - Make flags spawn sooner
Archers were in a good place for a time.
Then they all got their bows and arrows masterworked and their builds perfected.
What the fuck did I just read?I have no idea. Try reading the OP, though.
Well obviously, I am referring to the part where he is suggesting that evolution is to take a shield because that's what adapting means and common sense dictates that you should get a shield, completely disregarding preference and fun.You did not get the point, obviously. Capiche?
FUN. Capiche?
Just because you're always looking for things to invalidate doesn't mean others are too.You are, though.
You are, though.
The only thing worse then having pTx OR Bjord post in a single thread is when they both do it.
Denouncing two parties in order to empower yourself is a cheap trick, not to mention completely out of place in this instance.
So are you.I treat people the way they treat others.
Someone needs a hug, I think.
I treat people the way they treat others.
Make it so the agi shielders can chase them down easier.
the only way to counter range is to have more range.
(click to show/hide)
You sound like Infantry was the poor "class" and being underpowered. :lol:
Maybe you should try Native before you open your stupid mouth. :wink:
Anyway, I am just a my old friend
Which is exactly what I said in my first post. Guess it got lost in translation, after the the part that reads "Bjord". :lol:
Native is gay. Anyone who plays it clings to some elitistic fantasy. Duel is okay in some aspects, but way too spammy and exploity(in lack of a better word).
Anyway, I am just an oldmy old friend who clings to old cRPG because melee was fun. But I doubt I'd get the same pleasure killing people without the need to keep aware of archers, adds a stress factor which makes me perform better. And die more often... :mad:
Getting out of the closet is the first step on the path of salvation. Good going lad, keep it up, walk towards the light !(click to show/hide)
After all, you are my role model. :wink:
(click to show/hide)
Don't tell me that people are starting to take Gnjus' jabs seriously now, are they?
tl;dr Everything has a counter, figure it out.
A game is for fun.
If "figuring it out" is not to the taste of the player, the game needs betterment. It's not the other way around.
My thoughts exactly.
Im convinced that the reason most archers go for light armor is the simple fact that weight reduces your accuracy. Fix that and melee archers become more viable than kiters. Simply taking away an archer's ability to run like any other character is retarded.
Armor weight modified proficiency = base proficiency * (1 - 0.01 * effective armor weight)So with 7 effective armour weight you get no accuracy penalty what so ever, yet most archers go around with armour way beneath that. Why? So they can run faster.
Effective armor weight = 3*head armor weight + body armor weight + leg armor weight + 2*hand armor weight - 7
No, they should not become tanks who can fire from afar. No other class runs like archers, they don't have to because they can fight back. Give archers decent 0 slot weapons that make more damage and they too will fight back.
You can wear Light/mediumish armour and still have good accuracy. So with 7 effective armour weight you get no accuracy penalty what so ever, yet most archers go around with armour way beneath that. Why? So they can run faster.
However, making the game more fun for one class very often makes it less for another, so it's a matter of balance.
I think the idea of not changing the game because things are globally fine and class strengths can be countered is fallacious though. What matters is what happens, and what is a better game (read : more enjoyable for a greater variety of players while following the ideas and spirit of the developpers). cRPG is not perfect and never will be. Not changing it would be the error.
No, archers dont run away for pleasure. The fact that archers have sligtly more accuracy with light armor is reason enought to go for it. couple that with retarded melee capability and we have kiting. So, like I've explained before, armor is the way to fix it.Dude, you currently got 15/10 weight points that mean nothing to your accuracy, what more do you expect? Plate? I've seen you in game, you wear a straw hat, a white shirt, and you run like a bitch, drop ath and you get ps, but, as long as my old friends like you would rather kite kiting needs to be removed, you're perfectly capable of being decent in melee while having decent archery capabilities, but you choose kiting.
I'm still amused that so many people complained that Archers could melee and wanted it took away, and now they want it back as archers are now running. Give it 6 months or a year after "melee archer" becomes viable again, and the cries of nerf will be back to take it away the instant anyone becomes good at it.Tears, you can still melee if you don't kite! So stop kiting! my old friend! And let's duel! Bring it on you one-mouse button dog! (just map blocking to some other damn button!)
I used to melee and not run away before the slot nerf, actually. Now I use a +3 stick because why the hell not, given the current state of things.
A game is for fun.
If "figuring it out" is not to the taste of the player, the game needs betterment. It's not the other way around.My thoughts exactly.
To be fair, being decent at melee and being decent at archery is worse then being great at melee with no archery, or being great at archery with no melee. Jack-of-all-trades are terrible classes, Hybrids are awkward unless you are at high levels especially considering the slot system punishes you for picking up two specialties at once.
Exept dieing with 1 hit doesn't encourage going melee. With the weight of armor archers wouldn't be able to kite properly, that's the trade off. A dedicated melee charater should still have little trouble dispatching an armoured archer, unless the meleer had no skill. What I propose is that archers actually look like they did and not kite.Shooting someone so they will get 1hit in melee is the the advantage archers have. That's what I did in my archer gens. Shot at people at a distance, someone tried to close in I shot at them, they got close I finished them off with my sword. Never more than 1 or 2 hits, unless a) I missed my shots (my own mistake) or b) they were more than 1 (why should they not have the advantage) or c) if they have a shield (natural counter to my shots).
No, archers dont run away for pleasure. The fact that archers have sligtly more accuracy with light armor is reason enought to go for it. couple that with retarded melee capability and we have kiting. So, like I've explained before, armor is the way to fix it.
Tears, you can still melee if you don't kite! So stop kiting! my old friend! And let's duel! Bring it on you one-mouse button dog! (just map blocking to some other damn button!)
Dude, you currently got 15/10 weight points that mean nothing to your accuracy, what more do you expect? Plate? I've seen you in game, you wear a straw hat, a white shirt, and you run like a bitch, drop ath and you get ps, but, as long as my old friends like you would rather kite kiting needs to be removed, you're perfectly capable of being decent in melee while having decent archery capabilities, but you choose kiting.
And saying they can't wear armour. Bullshit. You can't wear plate, that's for sure. Rus Scale armour? Nope. But anything from light kuyak and down is completely ok.
And archers probably wouldn't get 1 hitted if the largest part of the infantry would sacrifice a bit of their overpowered build and lower their speciality to take some protections (spears for cav or shields for ranged). And archers not being one hitted maybe they would melee a bit more often.
so the thing that unbalances the game the most is making retarded "specialist" builds.
I'm still amused that so many people complained that Archers could melee and wanted it took away
I think you guys don't really get my point, people make retarded builds and push it to the extreme cause they know it can be tweaked to their will if they whine hard enough on the forums; so they'll finally have the perfect build they've always dreamed about. If the devs weren't that close the players and didn't give a fuck, we would just be adaptating our ass to the game as it would be - like most multiplayer games actually.
Tears is right about everything. Archery + melee hybrid is extremely unpleasant to play. I'm still far from lvl 30 but I doubt it will be better considering my knowledge of the game and experience. At this level (23) I can kill 60% of player base with a pitchfork. With bow I'm just a sitting duck.
I think my KD was about 2.7 with the majority of my kills by ranged.Without looms?
Without looms?
I get your general point, but I can't believe that in particular. I think what actually happens in build design is a very organic process that starts from what the game is and goes through popularity cycles until another change is made. That people would plan their build then ask for changes seems pretty far fetched. I think specialist builds rationally are the best adapted to the current balance, but people neglect the fact that specialist will have more difficulties facing their counter classes or some specific battle configurations (like 0 ath cav in towns), and that it is very frustrating. Being killed defenceless induces rage which leads to balance rants.
Anyway, blaming the players will not get us anywhere.
Btw, shields are about as effective a counter to archers as bunkers a weapon against people launching missiles on you.
This instance perhaps.
But surely you are not denying the tens and hundreds of threads about various buffs. Hoplite buff, make awlpikes usable with shield etc, then you went 1h/shield and you wanted to re-do and essentially buff every shield, now you are archer and you're already talking about balance in archery perspective.
Don't be so transparent. :wink:
Leshma if you can't manage to hit with 140/150 wpf I think you're just not supposed to play an archer and stick to other classes :3
And yeah remember some of us introduced the idea of changing some game mechanics to make kitting obsolete (motf flags spawing way sooner is an exemple). To find a balance the game needs to introduce a concept of goal other than killing everyone for e-penis. If archers want to kite and run when they see melee that would actually still be doable, but useless since they won't benefit their team if they're running away from the flags.
And if archers feels like going melee well, they make choices at the start of the round and take an adequat equipement. You can't have everything all the time, sometimes I have to make a choice if I want with my 1h : a 1 slot shield and 2 stacks of throwing, or a 2 slot shields and 1 stack, or 1 slot shield and a spear. That's part of the game, making judicious choices depending on the environnement. That's the good thing with having a "hybrid" (I don't call putting ~90 wpf in 1h hybrid for an archer, I call that common sense) build, you can make choices to weather use or do not use your side skills depending on the situation.
You do not seem to grasp the concept of balance. How does the spawning of flags stop archers from running in the middle of a round? You think they only run during last minute of round?
So long as there is a considerable drawback for engaging in melee, archers will always run. It doesn't matter if they ruin their team's chance of winning, nobody thinks like that sadly.
But yes you got my point and you kind of explained the same thing with your own words. It's like buffing scissors cause they get crushed by rock, so the "new cycle" starts and people choose to play scissors, but with that starts the whine of the rock being now underpowered against scissors and leaves, which leads to some leaves nerf to satisfy the rocks etc...Honestly, kiting needs to be removed, it's just gay, ain't insanely effective, it's just gay, all the way, but besides that, archery is fine/needs a slight accuracy 'n' speed buff.
And all that because everyone makes "specialist" builds, and I repeat myself but that's the whole point off my thread, for fackin e-penis reasons. They keep arguing that specialist builds are the only way to have fun but end up raging at other classes 50% of the time, where's the fun in that, gentlemen ?
Rage that leads to more useless-ish tweaks of the game that will start a new build trend.
Rounds are usually decided in melee combat. Only on certain maps the round ends with an archer/crossbow duel, not even mentioning throwers and Horse Archers (or even horse throwers).A person mentions horse throwers over horse crossbowmen, proof I'm fucking epic.
A person mentions horse throwers over horse crossbowmen, proof I'm fucking epic.
A person mentions horse throwers over horse crossbowmen, proof I'm fucking epic.
maybe on NA.On EU he's a
discuss
Shooting someone so they will get 1hit in melee is the the advantage archers have. That's what I did in my archer gens. Shot at people at a distance, someone tried to close in I shot at them, they got close I finished them off with my sword. Never more than 1 or 2 hits, unless a) I missed my shots (my own mistake) or b) they were more than 1 (why should they not have the advantage) or c) if they have a shield (natural counter to my shots).
And saying they can't wear armour. Bullshit. You can't wear plate, that's for sure. Rus Scale armour? Nope. But anything from light kuyak and down is completely ok.
so we don't have these 7+ ath archers in no armor that simply can't be killed.
make the slot system use dedicated slots. So archers can only get 1 stack of arrows, and have no excuse to not get a melee weapon.
I'd also say anyone with a bow equipped needs their ath capped at a reasonable level
I recently saw a HA get dismounted and drop their bow... along with 3 stacks of arrows. How the hell do you use 3 stacks of arrows in 1 round if you're actually taking ANY time to aim your shots?
Clearly you have never player horse archer. The deal very little damage (generally only have 5 pd + you get a damage penalty) and the accuracy while mounted (and moving) is pretty horrendous.
Haven't played HA, you are correct, but I am aware of their horrendous damage and accuracy. However, taking the worst possible situation for number of arrows (3 stacks of unloomed bodkins) you get 45 arrows. If the round plays out a full 6 minutes, you would need to fire off an arrow every 8 seconds to use all of those.
Taking a more reasonable stance (I believe they were unloomed tatars) so, that means 54 arrows, and over a 4 minute round (Remember, they have to spawn, and then actually see the enemy, and most rounds don't go the full 6 minutes), that means firing an arrow every 4.44... seconds to run out. Had they taken 2 stacks and a 1 slot sidearm, that means they would need to fire every 6.66... seconds to run out.
Again, how the hell do you fire an arrow every 4.4 seconds while taking any time to get to a decent position or to aim at all?
I have played this mod for 15 months or so now.
And I have played archer for 15 months or so now. I didnt picked archer because it is easy, cheating, op. I chose it because I really wanted to be an archer in this game, and I had no experience, no information at all how archers compared to other classes in this game.
I really have to ask, I have been playing the same way from the beginning,12 gens ago now, training my accuracy and everything that an archer needs to be efficient. Am I just an my old friendcher playing an op class and ruining this game for everyone else?
Are you serious? Your an awful archerLIES
Are you serious? Your an awful archer
archery isnt bad at all. its the stupid xbows that destroy with little to no wpf. or heat seeking throwing weapons. 2h and polearm bug me more tho. i dont get when swinging a 1h even without a shield your movement stops. but with polearm and 2h you can keep chugging right along. fucking annoying. ive had 12 ps bounce off people too. makes 0 sense considering the guy is moving into me swing. archery is weird. some shots hurt and some dont.I'm gonna label you a retard.
. ive had 12 ps bounce off people too.
I have played this mod for 15 months or so now.
And I have played archer for 15 months or so now. I didnt picked archer because it is easy, cheating, op. I chose it because I really wanted to be an archer in this game, and I had no experience, no information at all how archers compared to other classes in this game.
I really have to ask, I have been playing the same way from the beginning,12 gens ago now, training my accuracy and everything that an archer needs to be efficient. Am I just an my old friendcher playing an op class and ruining this game for everyone else?