A catchy title to start a debate.

[Molly]

Ranged overall is just fine, even kiting seems okay.

Just the sheer amount of ranged (and cav for this matter) is making it rather frustrating and annoying.
So, instead of trying to fix a balance that is actually pretty balanced, think about something that will reduce the player amount of those classes.

[[ptx]]

Being a long-spear-man on my main, i can only attest to the stupidity of the mob.

Things your average c-RPG player will do when faced with an enemy downblocking in front of a longspear/pike/hoplite:
a) Try and lolstab him with his greatsword (so fucking l33t!)
b) Keep his distance, do some feints for good measure
c) Run off, looking to backstab someone
d) Run off, looking to duel someone and get ganked instead
e) Teamhit the polearm user.
f) Keep his shield up forever and ever, try and facehug the enemy. If possible, move in front of the enemy, blocking the polearm user.

The circle maps make me lose faith in humanity.

[Molly]

[...]
The circle maps make me lose faith in humanity.

I remember a map with a lake in the middle and I tried to get people running towards each other by asking my team to wait for the others to move and then charge...

...but NOOOO... instead both teams start running at the same time and ofc(!) both teams run clockwise around the stupid water hole.

Described situation sums up cRPG very well.

[Zerran]

Being a long-spear-man on my main, i can only attest to the stupidity of the mob.

Things your average c-RPG player will do when faced with an enemy downblocking in front of a longspear/pike/hoplite:
a) Try and lolstab him with his greatsword (so fucking l33t!)
b) Keep his distance, do some feints for good measure
c) Run off, looking to backstab someone
d) Run off, looking to duel someone and get ganked instead
e) Teamhit the polearm user.
f) Keep his shield up forever and ever, try and facehug the enemy. If possible, move in front of the enemy, blocking the polearm user.

 

God damnit I hate it when people do these things when I'm supporting them with my pike.

And they do it far, FAR too often.

[sdfjkln]

You're all having a thoughtful discussion on ranged/build mechanics, but I'd like to point out that another reason that ranged kiters are so annoying is because of actual GAME MECHANICS. Until the flags spawn, the only way to win the round in battle is to kill everyone on the other team. Melee is forced engage ranged kiters to win, or they can camp somewhere and wait for the flags. The same type of problem pops up on maps with towers; one team is forced to engage(to the defenders advantage in a tower) or camp until flags. Just make the flags spawn sooner and you wouldn't have to chase an archer for 3 minutes, and they wouldn't be annoying. When your only strategy to win is camping and avoiding battle until flags spawn; the spirit of the game is defeated.

tl;dr version - Make flags spawn sooner

[Idzo]

Kinngrimm once said; if you dont have shield, find one who has it. +1 for Kinn!




When I suggested that sickles little hammer and simillar small wepons should not have block ability all of you were against it.

Now imagine that archers have to lose slot or two becaouse of side weapon.

Wouldn't that be nice??

[Joseph Porta]

It was a good read (I quickly scanned over it, i'll look into it when I get home) and all I have to say is that I agree with you, allthough I do rage when archers jump shot me like they are some sort of Jedi(!) but thats just for a moment and mainly because it's frustrating to almost kill someone and just before you're making the final hit BOOM headshot! And your dead. Anyways, raging is part of the game world, sadly, and people won't stop with crying about other peoples, in this case, classes.

[Gravoth_iii]

Lots of archers go full archery and no melee, few of them actually succeed getting good k/d's. I however think that going hybrid melee archer would score more kills (depending on peoples melee skills though) but since everyone is full archer no one dares to try being a hybrid. But this is just my theory, i havent played as an archer much, basically only on my STF shortbow alt ^^

[Gnjus]

You all just got depraved.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

+1 for using the concepts of evolution in a thread.

[akapraf]

Give everyone both melee and ranged abilities and let the best players come on top.

if they will remove WM Your desire will be fulfilled

[Tor!]

Was gonna write a long reply, but I am to lazy 

As people get better and better at melee, you need some other factors than melee to get the killing done fast. Those factors are ranged and cavalry!

It is sad that people do not try to improve themselves at melee, but resort to what many will look at as "cowardly" methods. Now the guy with zero skill at what this game really shines at, can get a skilled infantryman killed by loosing an arrow or bolt, or walking forward with a pony. Just like what the peasant crossbowman could do to a knight in the middle ages. And I think those knights raged harder than us!  I think the Papal States even banned crossbows against other Christians for a while, if I am not mistaken!

I did say something about the evolution of the game when you were playing Deprav, and if it was me you were referering to then this is what I meant when I mentioned the evolution of the game, or warfare if you want to call it that  Lesser skilled soldiers, but more lethal weaponry. If the game was evolving at the rate of what middle ages warfare would have been, we would definetly be at the stage of gunpowder right now. Thank Odin its not in! 

(click to show/hide)

What I find depressing as a "melee lover" is this; when the reason you get killed has changed from being beaten by skill, to something that is "cowardly" or unfair in my eyes, I start to wonder what more there is to achieve in the game! I am not the only one feeling like this - I know people who have left the game for this reason. Playing melee is more frustration than enjoyment. I am just venting my feelings about the current game situation, and I'm not suggesting any changes in this post, but I am bracing for all the minus points that I feel incoming 

[v/onMega]

melee is frustrating since 2010.

It got better for a short while, but archery nearly went dinosaurs coz of the nerfs.

Now, it gets frustrating again...melee pace is ultraslow, running is slow...all in all it gets boring.

Time to give this mod a rest and come back in a couple of months.

[Grumpy_Nic]

As people get better and better at melee, you need some other factors than melee to get the killing done fast. Those factors are ranged and cavalry!

It is sad that people do not try to improve themselves at melee, but resort to what many will look at as "cowardly" methods. Now the guy with zero skill at what this game really shines at, can get a skilled infantryman killed by loosing an arrow or bolt, or walking forward with a pony.

True. But can you really be mad at people that are not "skilled", at least in melee (we all are but you get my point)? But you gotta see the other side too. If someone who is not good in melee gets raped all the time by 2h or others the easiest decision is to go ranged. Like, when I see you coming at me in melee, usually I try to fight you but maybe in 10 fights I manage to hit you once.
To get to a similar skill I would need to spend a terrible amount of time on duel server or training otherwise. And I dont care about that cuz I dont wanna get a degree in "crpg melee" but just wanna play a game for a little and get some frags, thats all. Easiest way is to get a horse and lance people or get a bow/xbow (maybe also in combination with a horse) and get kills this way.

[Gnjus]

Its not about skill or no-skill, its about frags & scoreboard. All these shooters are good but the only way they can excel and get into the legend is by topping the scoreboard. I'll use Dave as example but you can apply it on any xbower/archer out there: he's perfectly good with 2handed weapon but often he can't survive long enough to top the board while with camping/hiding & shooting he gets 2 things: tons of free kills & starring role. Its better to be the one stealing rounds from all those who die to ranged right away then to be one of them and often not even making it into action on foot.