A catchy title to start a debate.

[Rhekimos]

so we don't have these 7+ ath archers in no armor that simply can't be killed.

Cavalry. Or wait for flags. Bring a shield. Protect a friendly archer.

Surprisingly many tactics to use against something invincible.

make the slot system use dedicated slots. So archers can only get 1 stack of arrows, and have no excuse to not get a melee weapon.

The smart kiter would still  have no PS, and no melee weapon (for no weight), and run even faster because not even the amount of arrows slows him down.

He can always pick up stray arrows from the ground to keep going.

I'd also say anyone with a bow equipped needs their ath capped at a reasonable level

Cap PS and ATH for melee too.

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

IMO WPF should be changed for archers so maybe they can hit people from a longer distance (don't over do it though) make every quiver have 30 arrows its the same amount as having 2 quivers roughly (although 30 does sound like alot but ill leave it open to discuss) limit archers so they can only carry one quiver and the set amount of arrows they started with (if you pick up over the limit you don't get the arrow and it disappears) so if they have a 2 slot bow, 1 quiver of arrows leaving them with one slot. Then they wont have many excuses for not carrying a melee weapon.

Maybe I'm wrong but its just my 2 cents

[Pejlaen]

I have played this mod for 15 months or so now.

And I have played archer for 15 months or so now. I didnt picked archer because it is easy, cheating, op. I chose it because I really wanted to be an archer in this game, and I had no experience, no information at all how archers compared to other classes in this game.
I really have to ask, I have been playing the same way from the beginning,12 gens ago now, training my accuracy and everything that an archer needs to be efficient. Am I just an my old friendcher playing an op class and ruining this game for everyone else?

[Jarlek]

Yes.

(click to show/hide)

[Riddaren]

I seriously don't understand the problem with kiting archers. It's how archers are supposed to play in my opinion.
The problem is the players who chase them, without a shield, dying...

Just stand back and get cover and wait for flags and the "problem" with kiting archers isn't a problem anymore.

Stop whining about kiting archers, and stop chasing them unless you are faster or have a shield...

[CrazyCracka420]

I can't believe people are seriously bitching about not being able to catch archers with their strength builds.  And I seriously hope the balance team and dev's are intelligent enough to laugh at these people, and possibly say "Hey, try using tactics".  If you don't want to pick up a shield, or run around with ranged or shielders of your own, then don't cry when ranged shoots you.  End of story.

Change the way you play, don't bitch about the way someone else plays.  You hold all the power in your hands.

[oprah_winfrey]

Make the length of bows effect move speed the same way they do for melee weapons.

[Micah]

archers are fine by me, cav is fine by me
teamplay, tactical gameplay and player brains needs a huge buff
teamwork and tactics would improve game experiance and soften ballancing issues
this is not gonna happen because to few (including devs) care for supporting  teamplay and tactics
to few people that are actually interrested in it stand strong for it and fight for their right to have more epicness and higher level of gameplay

Topic: Flag Grouping support due Chat Color
http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/flag-grouping-support-due-chat-color/msg565661/#msg565661
Topic: Commander nomination in Battle
http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/commander-nomination-in-battle/

[CrazyCracka420]

I still say they lock down all the servers once a week and leave the battle servers open, have the admins or dev's force a practice for 30 minutes a week and do some very crude running in groups.  If you fuck around during practice you get the ban hammer for a couple hours.  Almost everything in the game that people whine about could be solved if they were using the right tactics, teamplay and equipment.

That was the only good thing I took from M&M

[Bulzur]

What i find funny is that no one cared when there was so few archers, that they could easily get picked off by cav, whose horses NEVER die from one arrow.
(My Palfrey died from one hit to the head when i was charging the archer and his MW rusbow+ MW Tatar arrows. It's so unfair ! Have you seen a +3 destrier ? Have you counted the number of arrows it can sustain ? Try comparing things that CAN be compared, even only goldwise and statwise...)

So, to continue the story. Lots of archers got fed up of being weak. So they did research. Some knew they had good awareness, good accuracy and patience : they went xbow.
Others knew they only shot close range before taking out their efficient melee weapon : they went throwing.
Few sticked to archery, and decided to research the "perfect" build. And after a few months of training, they found the one they found more effective. But yet, being a lone archer was hard. So they started to stick with other archers. Knowing that cav would think twice before facing 2 aware archers, that they could outsmart a stupid shielder thanks to their athletics.

Seeing that effectiveness, a lot of players who lack melee skills rolled an archer. A weak archer. But there's 40% luck in everyshot, so even them can sometimes finish people off.
Then old players found all thoses noob archers shooting their 2h, so they rerolled an archer, and easily owned the other archers, finding pleasure in this new sport.
Etc...


If archery was effective in 1v1, you'd never have archery evolved as to where it is now.
If only infantry and cavalry could also evolve and work together, i wouldn't have to play my own archer to kill most of the noobs one out there.


Lastly, missile speed from bows is so slow that it's easy to dodge. So it's easy for archers to dodge other archer's arrows. So they shoot infantry that walk straight, with no awareness, focused on the peasant in front of them.

It's the melee fault that archery has become what it is, without any help and any buff (except maybe the bodkin pierce damage, wich is great "realistically", but a bit stupid in term of balance...). So... take it like a man.

[Leshma]

I've actually headshotted few people today.

How? I have no idea.

[oprah_winfrey]

I recently saw a HA get dismounted and drop their bow... along with 3 stacks of arrows. How the hell do you use 3 stacks of arrows in 1 round if you're actually taking ANY time to aim your shots?

Horse archers deal very little damage (generally only have 5 pd + you get a damage penalty) and the accuracy while mounted (and moving) is pretty horrendous.

[Zerran]

Clearly you have never player horse archer. The deal very little damage (generally only have 5 pd + you get a damage penalty) and the accuracy while mounted (and moving) is pretty horrendous.

Haven't played HA, you are correct, but I am aware of their horrendous damage and accuracy. However, taking the worst possible situation for number of arrows (3 stacks of unloomed bodkins) you get 45 arrows. If the round plays out a full 6 minutes, you would need to fire off an arrow every 8 seconds to use all of those.

Taking a more reasonable stance (I believe they were unloomed tatars) so, that means 54 arrows, and over a 4 minute round (Remember, they have to spawn, and then actually see the enemy, and most rounds don't go the full 6 minutes), that means firing an arrow every 4.44... seconds to run out. Had they taken 2 stacks and a 1 slot sidearm, that means they would need to fire every 6.66... seconds to run out.

Again, how the hell do you fire an arrow every 4.4 seconds while taking any time to get to a decent position or to aim at all?

[oprah_winfrey]

Haven't played HA, you are correct, but I am aware of their horrendous damage and accuracy. However, taking the worst possible situation for number of arrows (3 stacks of unloomed bodkins) you get 45 arrows. If the round plays out a full 6 minutes, you would need to fire off an arrow every 8 seconds to use all of those.

Taking a more reasonable stance (I believe they were unloomed tatars) so, that means 54 arrows, and over a 4 minute round (Remember, they have to spawn, and then actually see the enemy, and most rounds don't go the full 6 minutes), that means firing an arrow every 4.44... seconds to run out. Had they taken 2 stacks and a 1 slot sidearm, that means they would need to fire every 6.66... seconds to run out.

Again, how the hell do you fire an arrow every 4.4 seconds while taking any time to get to a decent position or to aim at all?

Since you are on a horse zipping around the map, you almost alway near an enemy. I would say most HA use bodkins, again because their damage is so low. I think the biggest thing though is that there is no need to carry a side arm. One because their build has no room for powerstrike or melee wpf, and two because they are on a horse, they have access to scavenge basically whatever weapon they want.

[dreadnok]

I have played this mod for 15 months or so now.

And I have played archer for 15 months or so now. I didnt picked archer because it is easy, cheating, op. I chose it because I really wanted to be an archer in this game, and I had no experience, no information at all how archers compared to other classes in this game.
I really have to ask, I have been playing the same way from the beginning,12 gens ago now, training my accuracy and everything that an archer needs to be efficient. Am I just an my old friendcher playing an op class and ruining this game for everyone else?

Are you serious? Your an awful archer