A catchy title to start a debate.

[Miwiw]

You're telling me to incorporate a shield in my build, as I earlier mentioned being a shielder is not an option for me. A shield is fucking useless as a 2h or a polearm. Why? You can't use it while fighting, 80% of your time is spent fighting, which is when I get shot.

If you get shot while being in a fight, the Archer is playing his class.
You actually only complained about being kited before and now Archers aren't even allowed to play? :O


Actually every idea here, is to limit the game for Archers and (now) cav (as well). You noticed that ONLY infantry players complain?

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

IMO, after reading this thread backwards, I've decided, cRPG needs a balance councel, consisting of me, Teeth, and Tears.

Teeth will want kiting removed but ranged buffed in melee, doesn't want 1h swords buffed.
Zlisch will want kiting removed but ranged buffed in ranged, does want 1h swords to be buffed.
And Tears, will go off topic talking about his cool 1 button mouse.

[Leshma]

I have suggested solution to this issue but you guys didn't like it.

Give everyone both melee and ranged abilities and let the best players come on top.

cRPG has come to a point, where way too many people became good at it. Almost everyone can block and attack decently which leads to longer melee fights. That is why people choose ranged and cavalry builds, because they allow you to kill people relatively fast. But those builds aren't on the same foot with pure builds and because of that archers kite and cav whistle for horses, avoiding to fight on foot.

Specialization isn't the answer to current issues. Hybridization is, because it will show who are truly good players who can play multiple classes effectively.

[Teeth]

If you get shot while being in a fight, the Archer is playing his class.
You actually only complained about being kited before and now Archers aren't even allowed to play? :O

You misunderstand me. I am solely talking about the complete ineffectivity of having a shield on the side as a polearm or 2h in that post. As earlier mentioned, archery only pisses me off when I dodge my way to an archer and he starts running away. I am fine with archery in every other aspect. Getting shot while fighting is something I fully accept for the advantages of not having a shield.

[Pejlaen]

Skald, every word you wrote is true.

I'm just going straight to it.
A part of people in this mod dont have to play, since they are already the best in this game, and everyting other people in this mod ever does is cheating/playing unfair since that is the only way to kill just you and these people are out trying to directly ruin the game for you personally. The feeling I have is that this person x(s) after being killed by an archer/horseman or whatever player/characterbuilds he despises, is closer to enter the forum and wanting this element removed from the game since it's just there to drag him down, than to enter the next round with a learned lesson at the back of his head that enemy archers had an tendency to strive that way, or cavalry roamed over there, and do his best to counter this and win with your team. Crpg is very much what you make of it yourself. This goes for other things to.

Basically, Crpg is not worth playing unless all the odds are in his favour. If they arent, then this game isnt worthy of his time, and it is a plain bad creation.
That this mindset is even slightly general afaik in Crpg annoys me more than that the longbow should have +1 speed, the sword of war +2 reach... etc.

[callahan9119]

You misunderstand me. I am solely talking about the complete ineffectivity of having a shield on the side as a polearm or 2h in that post. As earlier mentioned, archery only pisses me off when I dodge my way to an archer and he starts running away. I am fine with archery in every other aspect. Getting shot while fighting is something I fully accept for the advantages of not having a shield.

You could hybrid pretty easily if it bothers you that much. Couple axes in the back of the archer would solve your problem.

[Riddaren]

Changing your build and/or equipment in order to adapt to some "OP" enemy is totally unnecessary.
Good teamplay beats anything that is "OP". Having a specialized build, opposed to a hybrid one will make you and your team even more effective if you just make use of teamplay and good tactics.

Sadly people don't care that much about winning rounds by using tactics. They rather just rush and if they die they cry about something being OP.
The game is very balanced imo and it keeps getting better (with a few exceptions ofc).

[Leshma]

Good teamplay beats anything that is "OP".

Not possible with random people.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Changing your build and/or equipment in order to adapt to some "OP" enemy is totally unnecessary.

Archery isn't OP, kiting isn't that OP, archery used with kiting is gay, 'cuss kiting is gay, op doesn't mater when it's gay, like spawnraping, or couching a guy who dehorsed you with his throwing lance in melee mode with his horse after he got off it in order to duel.

[Riddaren]

Not possible with random people.

True, but usually you know half of the players on the server since months back so you can always find someone to team up with.
I think the problem is the mentality among players. They think it's so hard to teamplay they donät even bother trying it.

But I know what the biggest problem is when it comes to this:

Individual kills (not deaths).

Simply remove kills from the scoreboard and people have no reason to be greedy and try to get kills who could be made easier by someone else in the team.
Instead reward players for winning rounds. Sure we already have the multiplier but maybe their can be something more.

Some players win 9/10 rounds. What do they get? Nothing I would say.

Instead, show round wins in the scoreboard and add to it on the next map.
The one with most wins in a row on each team gets access to a new commander system.

Now, that would increase teamplay.

[Jarlek]

Jarlek's musings:
What would happen if we removed the "transfer 2 Skillpoints to 1 Attribute" option?

I think a lot of things would change then.

[Riddaren]

Jarlek's musings:
What would happen if we removed the "transfer 2 Skillpoints to 1 Attribute" option?

I think a lot of things would change then.

Yes, that would make the difference between builds smaller, thus having a negative effect on teamplay as the benefit of teamplay wouldn't be as big with everyone being able to counter everything with their boring hybrid builds.

Instead make the game more class based (2-3 slot items did it, unsheatable weapons did it, wpf/repair cost did it). Stuff that makes teamplay more rewarding without making people useless but still able to be "OP" (if they are good players).

[22nd_deprav]

Skald, every word you wrote is true.

I'm just going straight to it.
A part of people in this mod dont have to play, since they are already the best in this game, and everyting other people in this mod ever does is cheating/playing unfair since that is the only way to kill just you and these people are out trying to directly ruin the game for you personally. The feeling I have is that this person x(s) after being killed by an archer/horseman or whatever player/characterbuilds he despises, is closer to enter the forum and wanting this element removed from the game since it's just there to drag him down, than to enter the next round with a learned lesson at the back of his head that enemy archers had an tendency to strive that way, or cavalry roamed over there, and do his best to counter this and win with your team. Crpg is very much what you make of it yourself. This goes for other things to.

Basically, Crpg is not worth playing unless all the odds are in his favour. If they arent, then this game isnt worthy of his time, and it is a plain bad creation.
That this mindset is even slightly general afaik in Crpg annoys me more than that the longbow should have +1 speed, the sword of war +2 reach... etc.

Yes, you got my point. A game is exactly what players are doing with it.

I'll pass all those build talks that wasn't the point of my post :-( and that kind of illustrate what I was trying to point out. People make their builds to be "fraggers", that's just a fackin endless e-peen contest. Everybody plays like it's singleplayer or like they're facing bots or something.
Two handers think they can dodge every fackin single arrows in the air and "pwn" everyone, archers think they'll headshot everyone if they get their wpf to 200, pole users think they can backpedale+thrust everyone if they can spam fast enough etc...

And after that, it all looks totally retarded... archers running around endlessly (and never getting tired (of it)), people chasing them like bots. Everybody splitting, cav running around and ganking every single player alone like piranhas. The communication system won't change a thing cause everybody wants to be a super hero and save the day.

I mean just take a look at what happens when a "circle map" pops up in the map cycle. Both team start running in the same way thinking they'll backstab the other, and that mostly ends up with 80 players running in circle for 5 min like fackin retards.

So yeah that's my point, people stop whinning every fackin day of the year about what class to nerf/buff and start looking at themselves.
The game is neither balanced or unbalanced, YOU, the PLAYERS, make the game what it is. If the mass decide to play the game like retards they make it a retarded game, if the mass decide that they should get balanced chars to have a balanced way of playing the game, you make it a balanced game, and if people starts thinking teamplay instead of being Top Score on the board, ho what a paradise that would be.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Jarlek's musings:
What would happen if we removed the "transfer 2 Skillpoints to 1 Attribute" option?

I think a lot of things would change then.

Horrible idea, stop hatin' on horsethrowers.

[Felix]

When I read the OP, I was like “wtf man, ppl can choose whatever build they want, no matter how retarded it is”, but then I read the deprav’s last post and i have to agree on this part. I can be pretty much objective (as much as person can ever be objective over anything) of this matter cause I play pure support class (pikeman) on the battlefield. I cant be a hero, nor I can do anything alone, and I never top the score board, cause I don’t really go for kill, but try to ward off multiple enemies with my pike from allies. I really think that support class characters are actually measuring how well the balance is faring in the game.

Yesterday it was awful – because of 6 roundы of running in circles in a row – there was no battle, only two fucking crowds picking and gnawing on whatever they found lagging behind the main host. It sucks. I felt completely useless. My role is to protect and support my teammates, but I couldn’t do my job, cause I’d rather run than die a foolish death while trying to save two stupid teammates who by some mysterious reasons decided to stay and face LOT of enemies. What the fuck? Can’t you retreat and regroup? Common sense, heard of it?

Teamplay is what we really need, but to be honest, I can’t think of it happening in a current state. The mood of the crowd is really chaotic and floating. Sometimes they do obey, and try teamplaying for once, but most of times they are just behaving like some bots. And it sucks.