i think it was a fun mechanic. it was hilarious getting free hits on people and watching them QQ lol.
I think fucking with the game mechanics like that will make people leave the game and polearms cheap on the market. Isn't there anyway just to reduce the pole stagger by .25 of a second or balance it that way? Keep in mind I rarely use polearms but someone has to stick up for it. Once NA feels the wrath people who relied on agility will be strength instead,and all the world will change around us,towns reduced to ash by two handers.
This is all I have to say on this.
i can play for about 10 minutes at a time on high population NA servers before the over abused long polearm/polestagger str build heavy armor + nonstop swarm of courser/heavy cav, and brokenly powerful rus bows and throwers shit up the game too much to have fun at all
removing polestagger is a good start, get rid of kiting, reduce throwing accuracy, nerf the rus bow, make all ranged ammo three to four times the weight, and minus all horse maneuver by 3 to 5, reduce all lance damage by 3 to 5 and maybe it will be a good game
this game was seriously better balanced when everyone could use sniper crossbows and plated chargers with no upkeep or slots then it is now, the metagame has very obviously shifted towards the longest polearms + heavy armor + strength and as much kiting ranged classes as posible, its fucking retarded imo
Being able to get a guaranteed free hit off of your own initial hit is a dumb mechanic and was rightfully removed.
i can play for about 10 minutes at a time on high population NA servers before the over abused long polearm/polestagger str build heavy armor + nonstop swarm of courser/heavy cav, and brokenly powerful rus bows and throwers shit up the game too much to have fun at all
removing polestagger is a good start, get rid of kiting, reduce throwing accuracy, nerf the rus bow, make all ranged ammo three to four times the weight, and minus all horse maneuver by 3 to 5, reduce all lance damage by 3 to 5 and maybe it will be a good game
this game was seriously better balanced when everyone could use sniper crossbows and plated chargers with no upkeep or slots then it is now, the metagame has very obviously shifted towards the longest polearms + heavy armor + strength and as much kiting ranged classes as posible, its fucking retarded imo
too wish dev's would leave game mechanics alone. The game was, and has been, pretty well balanced going back to at least 6 months ago.
Because it was a class specific advantage that took skill out of the game.
So does a shield, should we remove those? Same with knockdown, or crush-through.
There are lots of class specific advantages that take skill out of the picture in certain situations.
Maybe we should change the game to all 1h rapiers and institute olympic fencing rules so everyone is on the same page. :)
Polestagger was quite retarded because it didn't have any downside to it. Poleaxes which have good stats were able to sneak in 2 hits for one enemy mistake quite often which is silly and unbalanced. Knockdown weapons are usually unbalanced, short, slow or have lower damage compared to other weapons. Crushthrough weapons are slow, unbalanced and short. Can't say anything like that about weapons that had polestagger.
Polestagger was quite retarded because it didn't have any downside to it. Poleaxes which have good stats were able to sneak in 2 hits for one enemy mistake quite often which is silly and unbalanced. Knockdown weapons are usually unbalanced, short, slow or have lower damage compared to other weapons. Crushthrough weapons are slow, unbalanced and short. Can't say anything like that about weapons that had polestagger.
What about 2h swords that out reach a polearm's stab reach? As long as 2h has that advantage the polearm should keep stagger.Fuck off about the gd DGS already.
Why should a Danish Great Sword at 124cm out stab an awl pike of 165cm length for example? The awl pike is not so end heavy that it MUST be grasped in the middle. It could be grasped further back to increase the stab range.
Hiltslash is a way more annoying mechanic than polestagger, and IMHO more annoying than even "lolstab". Polestagger occasionally allowed a free hit after you had already gotten hit, hiltslash can be abused any time. 2h Weapons can hit for full damage in the first 1% of the swing animation, while they are still behind the wielder's shoulder. This is unrealistic and just looks silly.
Watch two pro longsword/HBS users on the duel server, and count how often someone lands a hit on an opponent that is actually in front of them. It will be a rare occurrence. Somehow I think medieval swordplay involved actually facing the guy you were fighting.
Hiltslash is a way more annoying mechanic than polestagger, and IMHO more annoying than even "lolstab". Polestagger occasionally allowed a free hit after you had already gotten hit, hiltslash can be abused any time. 2h Weapons can hit for full damage in the first 1% of the swing animation, while they are still behind the wielder's shoulder. This is unrealistic and just looks silly.If you are getting hiltslashed, then you have poor footwork and it is a personal problem not a game mechanic problem.
Watch two pro longsword/HBS users on the duel server, and count how often someone lands a hit on an opponent that is actually in front of them. It will be a rare occurrence. Somehow I think medieval swordplay involved actually facing the guy you were fighting.
Newmy old friend or something ? They alrdy did a nerf to 2h to fix that, so the right swing got slower.They reverted the right swing speed nerf, and it wasn't 2h specific. What did change though is making spam more difficult by adding a longer delay between getting your attack blocked and being able to attack again.
In my experience polestagger never allowed a second hit on me before i could block, i do have 20-30 ping though so that might be part of it
In my experience polestagger never allowed a second hit on me before i could block, i do have 20-30 ping though so that might be part of itOr your head could be so far up your fucking ass you can't see what is happening.
god i open my mouth and Zisa pounces on me like a Lion on a Zebra O.ORAAARRRR!
If you are getting hiltslashed, then you have poor footwork and it is a personal problem not a game mechanic problem.
Anyone who actually relied on polestagger as a legitimate tactic needs to re-evaluate their situation. Anyone who's crpg lives were actively ruined because of polestagger has bigger problems. There is a bigger picture that most of you are missing.
One person(SaulCanner) hit it spot on when he said:
Someone's inability to advance their own skill leads them to demand for "nerfs" (or mechanic changes) on forums. The admins give into these demands altering the mechanics and thus directly decreases combat possibilities in game. - This right here is what is destroying the depth and enjoyment of crpg.
The admins give into these demands
Yep
edit: wtf i just asked a question
Because it was unfair to 2hers. They have to have every advantage possible when it comes to melee. And polestagger actually made polearms viable against 2h, and that's a ridiculous notion. 2h is obviously the only melee class that should be worth playing ever.Hyperbole.
But in all seriousness, I don't mind them removing it, as long as they nerf 2h. It's only fair, because atm 2h has a huge advantage.
All it means is that the scrubs who relied on polestagger to actually do well with polearms will migrate to 2H, leaving the actual *good* polearm users to dominate.
There are two possibilities: either not changing anything is the perfect development strategy or whoever complains that devs give in to players' demands in a free mod is just a pathetic whiner.I would agree if there was a policy that stated 60%-70% of the community had to agree before any changes could be made, sadly this is not the case
Hint: it's not #1.
I would agree if there was a policy that stated 60%-70% of the community had to agree before any changes could be made, sadly this is not the case
In a real swordfight, "good footwork" is keeping your opponent in front of you. In cRPG, it's keeping your opponent off to your side so you can hiltslash them. Fights look like two hicks squaredancing now.
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Hiltslash is a way more annoying mechanic than polestagger, and IMHO more annoying than even "lolstab". Polestagger occasionally allowed a free hit after you had already gotten hit, hiltslash can be abused any time. 2h Weapons can hit for full damage in the first 1% of the swing animation, while they are still behind the wielder's shoulder. This is unrealistic and just looks silly.You left out the part where polearms can hiltslash just as easily as 2h. Oh and I can't even remember the last time I really got hiltslashed. Whatever the devs did, I think it either fixed or no one remembers how to do it. Not even on duel, let alone battle. Hiltslashing is not at all a problem anymore.
You left out the part where polearms can hiltslash just as easily as 2h. Oh and I can't even remember the last time I really got hiltslashed. Whatever the devs did, I think it either fixed or no one remembers how to do it. Not even on duel, let alone battle. Hiltslashing is not at all a problem anymore.
Oh and there is a difference between hiltslashing and doing a left and then a right swing.
You left out the part where polearms can hiltslash just as easily as 2h. Oh and I can't even remember the last time I really got hiltslashed. Whatever the devs did, I think it either fixed or no one remembers how to do it. Not even on duel, let alone battle. Hiltslashing is not at all a problem anymore.Got hitslahed(I think) by Cicero a few days ago repeatedly.
Oh and there is a difference between hiltslashing and doing a left and then a right swing.
Got hitslahed(I think) by Cicero a few days ago repeatedly.
You're right tanken It does auto-adjust O.O Wonder why
How about giving certain polearm weapons a certain tag, like "cruel" or "inflicts heavy wounds" or something like that, and those weapons do have the polestagger. That way people, who relied on the stagger or saw it as a (viable) feature could still take advantage of it, but it could get balanced by certain weapon stats. For example it should always go hand in hand with "unbalanced", like most crushthrough weapons do.
I think it would be a nice compromise and add another, real and intended feature to combat, next to others like unbalanced, good against shields, knockdown or crushthrough.
I would suggest to add the polestagger/cruel flag to the following weapons:(click to show/hide)
I chose the German Poleaxe because it is not used that much, and there should be a top tier weapon with this tag. Perhaps you can even try to not make it unbalanced, but lower the weapon speed 1 or two points.
Then I chose the Great Long Bardiche and the English Bill because they look mean and a hit of them would surely inflict terrible wounds. It's also a chance to mark them off from the Swiss Halberd, respectively Long Bardiche/Long Voulge.
The Boar Spear finally is to add a spear weapon with this feature. It has a broad tip, which justifies it to inflict cruel wounds, and I don't see it that much as a hoplite weapon, so again it's a chance to increase diversity.
And I know there are always people who are using those weapons, and say that this would destroy a perfectly balanced and wonderful weapon, but I think all in all those weapons are used that little, that such a change could add a little bit more diversity to the polearms you see on the servers.
are you trolling?
are you trolling?And the Long Sword, Bastard swords, and all of the 2h mauls are soooo balanced too
bill, bardiche, and german poleaxe are 3 of the most OP weapons in the game, all do way more damage than any 2 hander weapon does, most are longer, and have polestagger, balanced, rear horses, and bust shields (not the bill but it does massive pierce with the length of a pike basically, broken weapon)
no thanks
Haven't read through all the arguments or comments so this may have been posted already...
But wouldn't a decent nerf be to remove polestagger from weapons that are obviously the culprit for scoring more hits? Pikes, Long Spears, Lances, and (from my understanding)Bamboo and Ashwoodsdon't give enough time to allow for more hits (but I could be wrong!). Polestagger for me was always a great addition to use with my teammates, stunning the target just a brief moment to allow them to quickly wrap it up was all I needed, and I think that's why Polestagger originally existed. However, with it gone it really will make 2handers and the other mentioned classes supreme.
The value of polearms, like this mod, will plummet. I don't want to simply subside the playstyle I've adapted and found in the past 6 months just to have it shit on and have to join the already existing hordes of 2handers. With polestagger gone, and the removal of fast spins or maneuverability for weapons like mine that have one or two hit-directions, you minaswell count me out of this mod.
Some of you will be thankful for that :mrgreen:
On a side note, try writing P o l e s t u n in this forum and it automatically adjusts it to Polestagger. Even the word s t u n. Wtf?
I am not. Why should I?
How about giving certain polearm weapons a certain tag, like "cruel" or "inflicts heavy wounds" or something like that, and those weapons do have the polestagger. That way people, who relied on the stagger or saw it as a (viable) feature could still take advantage of it, but it could get balanced by certain weapon stats. For example it should always go hand in hand with "unbalanced", like most crushthrough weapons do.
I think it would be a nice compromise and add another, real and intended feature to combat, next to others like unbalanced, good against shields, knockdown or crushthrough.
I would suggest to add the polestagger/cruel flag to the following weapons:(click to show/hide)
I chose the German Poleaxe because it is not used that much, and there should be a top tier weapon with this tag. Perhaps you can even try to not make it unbalanced, but lower the weapon speed 1 or two points.
Then I chose the Great Long Bardiche and the English Bill because they look mean and a hit of them would surely inflict terrible wounds. It's also a chance to mark them off from the Swiss Halberd, respectively Long Bardiche/Long Voulge.
The Boar Spear finally is to add a spear weapon with this feature. It has a broad tip, which justifies it to inflict cruel wounds, and I don't see it that much as a hoplite weapon, so again it's a chance to increase diversity.
And I know there are always people who are using those weapons, and say that this would destroy a perfectly balanced and wonderful weapon, but I think all in all those weapons are used that little, that such a change could add a little bit more diversity to the polearms you see on the servers.
Polearms does still have some stun, but its not ridicolous anymore. The 2h swords or 1h swords does not have a special effect at all, so why should polearm?
Plz get this! Polestagger was op as fuck, one of the most op things ive ever seen in c-rpg. It was for sure the most op effect ive ever seen a weapon inflict. Thats why we got rid of it.
The game is more balanced than it has ever been. There is no need to add another effect to ''replace'' polestagger, polestagger was something which got removed because it was op. So it seems dumb to replace it with another effect, which might end up fucking the balance again.
Polearms does still have some stun, but its not ridicolous anymore. The 2h swords or 1h swords does not have a special effect at all, so why should polearm? Polearm alrdy has the biggest arteleri. Stopping horses, being able to have incredible reach and support options with spears/pikes. And they have waaay better weapons with bonus against shields. Ontop of that, they have decent stats. I dont see what u can really complain about, there is +'s and -'s to every weapon.
If u want another effect to the weapons, u should first of all be very careful. And u should probably not only add it to 1 weapon class, since that would probably fuck up the balance. So the effects should be more spread between the classes.
Polestagger is gone, why would you want to bring it back?
Plz get this! Polestagger was op as fuck, one of the most op things ive ever seen in c-rpg. It was for sure the most op effect ive ever seen a weapon inflict. Thats why we got rid of it.
Fuck off about the gd DGS already.
god i open my mouth and Zisa pounces on me like a Lion on a Zebra O.OHe's always so insightful and literate isn't he?
I personally dont think polestagger should have been removed. Screwing with the games mechanics is just making combat more and more bland. Devs should quit trying to balance the game by nerfing everything, and focus on adding new game modes, fixing bugs, and re texturing some of the god awful armor that are from the first Mount and Blade. Game was balanced, or as close as it was gonna get, before this patch
Also, to the people QQing about how 2hs are OP, think about it. Polearm users are some of the most versatile in the game. They have the longest, best support weapon in the game (pikes), they can use the incredibly fast 2 directional lawlpikes, rear horses, most of the mid - high tier weapons get bonus against shields, and most of the high end weapons have viable secondary modes (poleaxes, bec). As a 2her, here are your option : Mauls (which polearms have as well), the short, unbalanced axes/maces, and then the greatswords/longswords. Not alot of versatility there. Of course there are the 2hs without a stab, but they are basically in the same category as the greatswords. Do you honestly expect, on top of being so versatile, for polearms to be as good as a 2h in a straight up 1v1? Thats basically the only perk 2hs have going for them.
In the first paragraph you complain about polearms losing polestagger, in the second post you compare them to 2hd and find out they are superior? :? :?:
Mauls (which polearms have as well)
are you trolling?
bill, bardiche, and german poleaxe are 3 of the most OP weapons in the game, all do way more damage than any 2 hander weapon does, most are longer, and have polestagger, balanced, rear horses, and bust shields (not the bill but it does massive pierce with the length of a pike basically, broken weapon)
no thanks
I personally dont think polestagger should have been removed. Screwing with the games mechanics is just making combat more and more bland.
Thoughtful contribution. Keep up the good work.Fuck off about my contributions.
You, being a new player are actively seeking ways for the game to be made easier. Veterans however, have put in the time and experience to advance their skill. The experience gap between you and a veteran does not justify a reason to change or "nerf" game mechanics. All you are supporting is a game that is decreasing the depth of it's battle system.
Again though, if polestagger or being stabbed because of the lack of experience blocking down are destroying crpg for you, you have bigger problems.
As if 3-4 months difference between forum register date makes you a "veteran" and me a "new player" right? lol. As for "seeking ways for the game to be made easier," surely the guy supporting features that helps him crutch-farm easy or gimmick kills is more applicable, is he not? I also like how personal your response is, are you frightened for the day these changes are implemented in NA?Haha it's semi ironic because he was THE notorious poop and scooper pre upkeep patch. Love ya Sauce!
Comparing the likes of mallet and great maul to the long maul is quite ridiculous. 2H mauls are by far better than the long maul, but I guess that's balanced by the fact that poleaxes are quite a lot better than 2H axes.
I don't agree with Joker's suggestion, polestagger was a joke on weapons that were fast enough to sneak in an extra hit for every successful stagger, and I'm happy to see it gone as a dedicated polearm player. However, calling German Poleaxe, English Bill and Great Long Bardiche 3 of the most OP weapons in the game, and calling Bill a broken weapon is a joke too. I think they're fine now that polestagger is gone, if anything the english bill is maybe a bit too bad now that the turning rate was limited too. Only the overhead is useful, pretty much. :?
...I think if you removed spinstab from polearms but let them keep polestagger it would be fine.
I'd like to see how this affects melee vs cav.
Sing it back bring it back
I will admit polestagger/stagger was op and could of done with a nerf rather then just removing it and as for the spin stab thing I don't know about it so meh
I think that 90% of people will agree the long hefted blade was and still is the number one weapon that polestaggers/staggers the most.
on a side not I love how GTX is giving everyone who speaks about keeping polestagger/stagger -1 but its probably because it messed with his K/D so he has to quit and rejoin again :rolleyes: :lol:
On a serious note I'm agreeing that the game was probably as close to perfect as it was going to get before this patch (I don't know what exact patch but it was definitely before this one) but still you can't really blame the devs for all the nerfs seeing as its the players who are QQ about each other and I saw this from some guys sig but cant remember his name and it said
"I'm rock, nerf paper, scissors are fine"
Personally that's how I see the players of cRPG including me every class QQ's about everyother class.
and for the guy who made the thread and first post, yeah allot of 2hers will just give you a -1 just for talking about polestagger/stagger even though most don't come up with logical answers or even post but believe it or not some do and are quite smart.
I wonder how many 2hers are going to -1 this post
First of all, i dont rly play this mod anymore, its becoming too dull for me. And because of that, i dont really care about my kdr, did u even see me post my kdr in the new kdr thread? no.I wouldn't know where the KDR thread is as I don't care about my KDR (loving the fact you didn't deny quitting to reset your K/D when you did play :lol: )
And ofc i -1 the people i disagree with, i dont see any reason why we should get polestagger back. It was a stupid effect, and very op.
I will admit polestagger/stagger was op and could of done with a nerf rather then just removing itAs a polearm player I actually agree that is OP and it could of been nerfed, but removing it I question :)
I actually also answer people why, and give them answers.
most don't come up with logical answers or even post but believe it or not some do and are quite smart.
Wow u are pointless to try and talk to, nvm it all. Jezz christ.You must type out the response, in full, with proper citation. Each time some one asks the same silly question, wether or not the reply is in the thread, or threads past.
As a polearm player I actually agree that is OP and it could of been nerfed, but removing it I question :)
well I'm no coder, if It couldn't be nerfed or have the amount of stun reduced then taking it out is the next step. but like I said I'm no coder :)
On a normal hit(1h, 2h) strike and strike2 animations are called. They got a duration of about 0.5 to 0.6s depending on hit location. They are the same as in Native and can be checked with the Native MS in the animations.py. On a polearm hit there is a 50% chance that strike3 are called instead and they got a duration of 0.8 to 1s. The code says that polearms with the knockdown flag never call the strike3 animation.
well I'm no coder, if It couldn't be nerfed or have the amount of stun reduced then taking it out is the next step. but like I said I'm no coder :)
I wonder how many 2hers are going to -1 this post