Why was polestagger removed?

[Baggy]

That why I said I think.

[Tanken]

Haven't read through all the arguments or comments so this may have been posted already...

But wouldn't a decent nerf be to remove polestagger from weapons that are obviously the culprit for scoring more hits? Pikes, Long Spears, Lances, and (from my understanding) Bamboo and Ashwoods don't give enough time to allow for more hits (but I could be wrong!). Polestagger for me was always a great addition to use with my teammates, stunning the target just a brief moment to allow them to quickly wrap it up was all I needed, and I think that's why Polestagger originally existed. However, with it gone it really will make 2handers and the other mentioned classes supreme.

The value of polearms, like this mod, will plummet. I don't want to simply subside the playstyle I've adapted and found in the past 6 months just to have it shit on and have to join the already existing hordes of 2handers. With polestagger gone, and the removal of fast spins or maneuverability for weapons like mine that have one or two hit-directions, you minaswell count me out of this mod.

Some of you will be thankful for that 

On a side note, try writing P o l e s t u n in this forum and it automatically adjusts it to Polestagger. Even the word s t u n. Wtf?

[Teeth]

Polestagger on the Ashwood pike definitely allows for more hits, same for Awlpike. I used this a plenty. You get in an overhead, watch them stumble around like retards and then prod em in the eyes. Double stabs work aswell.

It was OP as fuck.

[Joker86]

How about giving certain polearm weapons a certain tag, like "cruel" or "inflicts heavy wounds" or something like that, and those weapons do have the polestagger. That way people, who relied on the stagger or saw it as a (viable) feature could still take advantage of it, but it could get balanced by certain weapon stats. For example it should always go hand in hand with "unbalanced", like most crushthrough weapons do.

I think it would be a nice compromise and add another, real and intended feature to combat, next to others like unbalanced, good against shields, knockdown or crushthrough.

I would suggest to add the polestagger/cruel flag to the following weapons:

(click to show/hide)

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German Poleaxe

weapon length: 131
weight: 3
difficulty: 16
speed rating: 90
weapon length: 131
thrust damage: 29 pierce
swing damage: 42 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Bonus against Shield
Secondary Mode

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Great Long Bardiche

weapon length: 155
weight: 3.7
difficulty: 18
speed rating: 87
weapon length: 155
thrust damage: 18 pierce
swing damage: 46 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Unbalanced
Bonus against Shield

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English Bill

weapon length: 174
weight: 4
difficulty: 17
speed rating: 89
weapon length: 174
thrust damage: 28 pierce
swing damage: 31 pierce
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Can't sheath

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Boar Spear

weapon length: 145
weight: 1.8
difficulty: 4
speed rating: 92
weapon length: 145
thrust damage: 27 pierce
swing damage: 16 blunt
slots: 2

I chose the German Poleaxe because it is not used that much, and there should be a top tier weapon with this tag. Perhaps you can even try to not make it unbalanced, but lower the weapon speed 1 or two points.

Then I chose the Great Long Bardiche and the English Bill because they look mean and a hit of them would surely inflict terrible wounds. It's also a chance to mark them off from the Swiss Halberd, respectively Long Bardiche/Long Voulge.

The Boar Spear finally is to add a spear weapon with this feature. It has a broad tip, which justifies it to inflict cruel wounds, and I don't see it that much as a hoplite weapon, so again it's a chance to increase diversity.



And I know there are always people who are using those weapons, and say that this would destroy a perfectly balanced and wonderful weapon, but I think all in all those weapons are used that little, that such a change could add a little bit more diversity to the polearms you see on the servers.

[Tanken]

oh I should have probably specified I meant them in a Hoplite build but that's irrelevant :] Fixed my post. Thanks.

[BashirKhan]

 You're right tanken It does auto-adjust O.O Wonder why

P.S. ive noticed Bily_Whitmore has been down voting everyone who suggests a change from the current situation 

[Tanken]

You're right tanken It does auto-adjust O.O Wonder why

Isn't that nuts? lol.

[SixThumbs]

Well, for the longest time I thought I just missed a block, but then I was furious.

[robert_namo]

I use 2h and I also want 2h to be nerfed.

[Smoothrich]

How about giving certain polearm weapons a certain tag, like "cruel" or "inflicts heavy wounds" or something like that, and those weapons do have the polestagger. That way people, who relied on the stagger or saw it as a (viable) feature could still take advantage of it, but it could get balanced by certain weapon stats. For example it should always go hand in hand with "unbalanced", like most crushthrough weapons do.

I think it would be a nice compromise and add another, real and intended feature to combat, next to others like unbalanced, good against shields, knockdown or crushthrough.

I would suggest to add the polestagger/cruel flag to the following weapons:

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


German Poleaxe

weapon length: 131
weight: 3
difficulty: 16
speed rating: 90
weapon length: 131
thrust damage: 29 pierce
swing damage: 42 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Bonus against Shield
Secondary Mode

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Great Long Bardiche

weapon length: 155
weight: 3.7
difficulty: 18
speed rating: 87
weapon length: 155
thrust damage: 18 pierce
swing damage: 46 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Unbalanced
Bonus against Shield

visitors can't see pics , please register or login



English Bill

weapon length: 174
weight: 4
difficulty: 17
speed rating: 89
weapon length: 174
thrust damage: 28 pierce
swing damage: 31 pierce
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Can't sheath

visitors can't see pics , please register or login



Boar Spear

weapon length: 145
weight: 1.8
difficulty: 4
speed rating: 92
weapon length: 145
thrust damage: 27 pierce
swing damage: 16 blunt
slots: 2

I chose the German Poleaxe because it is not used that much, and there should be a top tier weapon with this tag. Perhaps you can even try to not make it unbalanced, but lower the weapon speed 1 or two points.

Then I chose the Great Long Bardiche and the English Bill because they look mean and a hit of them would surely inflict terrible wounds. It's also a chance to mark them off from the Swiss Halberd, respectively Long Bardiche/Long Voulge.

The Boar Spear finally is to add a spear weapon with this feature. It has a broad tip, which justifies it to inflict cruel wounds, and I don't see it that much as a hoplite weapon, so again it's a chance to increase diversity.



And I know there are always people who are using those weapons, and say that this would destroy a perfectly balanced and wonderful weapon, but I think all in all those weapons are used that little, that such a change could add a little bit more diversity to the polearms you see on the servers.

are you trolling?

bill, bardiche, and german poleaxe are 3 of the most OP weapons in the game, all do way more damage than any 2 hander weapon does, most are longer, and have polestagger, balanced, rear horses, and bust shields (not the bill but it does massive pierce with the length of a pike basically, broken weapon)

no thanks

[Joker86]

are you trolling?

I am not. Why should I?

[BashirKhan]

are you trolling?

bill, bardiche, and german poleaxe are 3 of the most OP weapons in the game, all do way more damage than any 2 hander weapon does, most are longer, and have polestagger, balanced, rear horses, and bust shields (not the bill but it does massive pierce with the length of a pike basically, broken weapon)

no thanks

And the Long Sword, Bastard swords, and all of the 2h mauls are soooo balanced too

[Vkvkvk]

Haven't read through all the arguments or comments so this may have been posted already...

But wouldn't a decent nerf be to remove polestagger from weapons that are obviously the culprit for scoring more hits? Pikes, Long Spears, Lances, and (from my understanding) Bamboo and Ashwoods don't give enough time to allow for more hits (but I could be wrong!). Polestagger for me was always a great addition to use with my teammates, stunning the target just a brief moment to allow them to quickly wrap it up was all I needed, and I think that's why Polestagger originally existed. However, with it gone it really will make 2handers and the other mentioned classes supreme.

The value of polearms, like this mod, will plummet. I don't want to simply subside the playstyle I've adapted and found in the past 6 months just to have it shit on and have to join the already existing hordes of 2handers. With polestagger gone, and the removal of fast spins or maneuverability for weapons like mine that have one or two hit-directions, you minaswell count me out of this mod.

Some of you will be thankful for that 

On a side note, try writing P o l e s t u n in this forum and it automatically adjusts it to Polestagger. Even the word s t u n. Wtf?

If anything, I think polearms are more on the level of 2handers now than before.

As you mentionned :" Polestagger for me was always a great addition to use with my teammates, stunning the target just a brief moment to allow them to quickly wrap it up was all I needed"

That alone made long polearms extremely overpowered. I can fight 3-4 polearmers/2handers entirely fine if I have enough athletics to footwork around them, but as soon as a long poke polearm was added in the equation, all that awaited me was a gorey death. I would be dueling a polearmer/2hander and I would just fucking empty my bowels in my pants as soon as I saw a pike/longspear/bamboospear/awlpike/whatfuckingever coming my way because I knew that my chances of survival just dropped to nearly 0.

I could also deal with 2 handers much more than polearms just because of polestagger, if I'm fighting 3 2handers with less skill than I do, I could easily just footwork around and if I did a mistake that didn't kill me, I could keep going until next mistake.

Fighting more than 1 polearm meant a single mistake spelled doom because they could just take turn in polestaggering me until I was dead, I could have 80 body armor and 1000 hp for all they care, they would have just taken turns until I would have been dead because of the inability to do jack shit against it short of Alt+F4'ing.

I am not. Why should I?

Because your idea seems generally poor. I get your point, polestagger could probably go on certain polearms that needs it, but in total honesty, the mechanic itself was just bullshit no matter on what weapon, even spears that have weak side swings, they easily make up for it with their sheer stab damage and speed.

[_GTX_]

How about giving certain polearm weapons a certain tag, like "cruel" or "inflicts heavy wounds" or something like that, and those weapons do have the polestagger. That way people, who relied on the stagger or saw it as a (viable) feature could still take advantage of it, but it could get balanced by certain weapon stats. For example it should always go hand in hand with "unbalanced", like most crushthrough weapons do.

I think it would be a nice compromise and add another, real and intended feature to combat, next to others like unbalanced, good against shields, knockdown or crushthrough.

I would suggest to add the polestagger/cruel flag to the following weapons:

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


German Poleaxe

weapon length: 131
weight: 3
difficulty: 16
speed rating: 90
weapon length: 131
thrust damage: 29 pierce
swing damage: 42 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Bonus against Shield
Secondary Mode

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Great Long Bardiche

weapon length: 155
weight: 3.7
difficulty: 18
speed rating: 87
weapon length: 155
thrust damage: 18 pierce
swing damage: 46 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Unbalanced
Bonus against Shield

visitors can't see pics , please register or login



English Bill

weapon length: 174
weight: 4
difficulty: 17
speed rating: 89
weapon length: 174
thrust damage: 28 pierce
swing damage: 31 pierce
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Can't sheath

visitors can't see pics , please register or login



Boar Spear

weapon length: 145
weight: 1.8
difficulty: 4
speed rating: 92
weapon length: 145
thrust damage: 27 pierce
swing damage: 16 blunt
slots: 2

I chose the German Poleaxe because it is not used that much, and there should be a top tier weapon with this tag. Perhaps you can even try to not make it unbalanced, but lower the weapon speed 1 or two points.

Then I chose the Great Long Bardiche and the English Bill because they look mean and a hit of them would surely inflict terrible wounds. It's also a chance to mark them off from the Swiss Halberd, respectively Long Bardiche/Long Voulge.

The Boar Spear finally is to add a spear weapon with this feature. It has a broad tip, which justifies it to inflict cruel wounds, and I don't see it that much as a hoplite weapon, so again it's a chance to increase diversity.



And I know there are always people who are using those weapons, and say that this would destroy a perfectly balanced and wonderful weapon, but I think all in all those weapons are used that little, that such a change could add a little bit more diversity to the polearms you see on the servers.

Plz get this! Polestagger was op as fuck, one of the most op things ive ever seen in c-rpg. It was for sure the most op effect ive ever seen a weapon inflict. Thats why we got rid of it.

The game is more balanced than it has ever been. There is no need to add another effect to ''replace'' polestagger, polestagger was something which got removed because it was op. So it seems dumb to replace it with another effect, which might end up fucking the balance again.

Polearms does still have some stun, but its not ridicolous anymore. The 2h swords or 1h swords does not have a special effect at all, so why should polearm? Polearm alrdy has the biggest arteleri. Stopping horses, being able to have incredible reach and support options with spears/pikes. And they have waaay better weapons with bonus against shields. Ontop of that, they have decent stats. I dont see what u can really complain about, there is +'s and -'s to every weapon.

If u want another effect to the weapons, u should first of all be very careful. And u should probably not only add it to 1 weapon class, since that would probably fuck up the balance. So the effects should be more spread between the classes.

[Vkvkvk]

Polearms does still have some stun, but its not ridicolous anymore. The 2h swords or 1h swords does not have a special effect at all, so why should polearm?

Because everyone insists that the polearms only had the polestagger going for themselves (Yeah right) and that 2h have absolutely everything going for them.