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cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Torp on February 27, 2011, 08:33:51 pm

Title: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 27, 2011, 08:33:51 pm
I've just been on the duel server and i noticed, that the lolstab outranges all the attacks i can perform with my long hafted blade... by far.
I dont see why a 123 length weapon should outrange a 153 weapon by far, even though it is a sword... it just doesnt make sense to me.
Therefore i think that this should be fixed.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Opium.dk on February 27, 2011, 08:59:18 pm
I think you simply got owned.

If he can get close enough, fast enough, to lolstab you before you can backpedal and swing, hes gonna hit you.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Punisher on February 27, 2011, 09:03:23 pm
I agree, remove the only advantage 2h have over polearms, so everybody switches to polearms and we'll all be happy fighting with the same weapons. Polearms are already longer,faster,have better overall damage, cheaper and have stun, what more could you possibly ask for?
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 27, 2011, 09:09:54 pm
I agree, remove the only advantage 2h have over polearms, so everybody switches to polearms and we'll all be happy fighting with the same weapons. Polearms are already longer,faster,have better overall damage, cheaper and have stun, what more could you possibly ask for?
I think you simply got owned.

If he can get close enough, fast enough, to lolstab you before you can backpedal and swing, hes gonna hit you.

Razzen approached me 1 inch at a time untill he could just hit me with his german greatsword lolstab. When he reached that point, i tried every single attack with my long hafted blade at the same range. i wasnt even close to hitting him, so:
1. no, i didnt simply get owned, i tested if the lolstab had greater range than a 153 length long hafted blade
2. polearms mgiht already be longer, but most of them have smaller reach than the lolstab
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Opium.dk on February 27, 2011, 09:15:53 pm
Razzen approached me 1 inch at a time untill he could just hit me with his german greatsword lolstab. When he reached that point, i tried every single attack with my long hafted blade at the same range. i wasnt even close to hitting him, so:
1. no, i didnt simply get owned, i tested if the lolstab had greater range than a 153 length long hafted blade
2. polearms mgiht already be longer, but most of them have smaller reach than the lolstab

So the stab is longer than your swing, but your swing is longer han his swing.

Bottomline is that polearms are superior to 2h and alot of them are currently OP.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 27, 2011, 09:19:53 pm
So the stab is longer than your swing, but your swing is longer han his swing.

Bottomline is that polearms are superior to 2h and alot of them are currently OP.

the 2H has the longest attack, which is all that matters. they can hit me before i can hit them, that gives the 2h an advantage.
and if polearms are OP, why do most top players use 2H? i see more 2H top players than polearm top players
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Gurnisson on February 27, 2011, 09:25:31 pm
Polearms better than two-handers? What have you guys been smoking?
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Opium.dk on February 27, 2011, 09:31:48 pm
the 2H has the longest attack, which is all that matters. they can hit me before i can hit them, that gives the 2h an advantage.
and if polearms are OP, why do most top players use 2H? i see more 2H top players than polearm top players

Polearms are cheaper, faster and longer than 2h and have the same if not higher damage + stun.

If that doesnt classify as better, i dont know what does.


   
   
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 27, 2011, 09:39:20 pm
Polearms are cheaper, faster and longer than 2h and have the same if not higher damage + stun.

If that doesnt classify as better, i dont know what does.

many ppl says that LHB is the best polearm, we can try comparing it to a german greatsword:
German greatsword has the longest attack (it doesnt matter that polearm has longer swing as long as the 2H can attack first and with a super-fast thrust)
German greatsword has higher swing dmg
German greatsword has MUCH higher thrust dmg
german greatsword is only slightly slower.

imo, german greatsword is best, which is why 50% of CRPG's top players use it
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Teeth on February 27, 2011, 09:47:17 pm
Make the long hafted blade 10k more expensive, I don't care :p

The stab of 2h is overpowered in my opinion. It is very fast, high range and very high damage. For me personally, and I guess that goes for more players, overhead and stab attacks are way harder to block than sideswings. The window in where your mouse movement does an upward or downwards block is very small and a slight deviation to either side makes it a side block. (That window should be made slightly larger, but thats another discussion) 2H players, for example Phyrex, continually use stabs. Can't blame em cause its by far their best option. I'd say make the thrust attack slightly less powerful and give it less range and improve the swing attacks.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Kophka on February 27, 2011, 09:52:22 pm
I keep hearing about polearm stun, but I'm not sure if I've ever witnessed it. Is it that stagger when you get hit? That happens on 2 hand and 1 hand weapons too, and arrows/rocks/ etc. Is there a polearm stun in the code somewhere? Can someone snip it out so we can see it?
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Punisher on February 27, 2011, 09:59:56 pm
Regarding stun:

There is a "weight vs weight" weapon stun. Say - charged (chambered/held/you name it) greatsword  strikes a side sword. There is added delay to the side sword wielder after he blocks, he cant counter attack and MUST block twice unless he massively out manouvers the other guy. In general this applies only to charged attacks and only in situations where a heavier wep strikes a lighter one. Polearms in general are a bit heavier than 2hers so they can use this more. I could be wrong but unless the weight difference is huge this sort of stun applies only on charged overheads. This is a stun only in the way that you must not counterattack immediately after 1st strike.

And then there is polearm stun. When a polearm strikes you with enough dmg - you get a short "staggering" animation during which you can do NOTHING at all. With enough speed you can get in a second guaranteed hit (in native this is possible with spears, in crpg with several weps (depending on build ofc)). This is incredibly annoying in team fights and quite so as well in duel type situations since your opponent can manouver to a favourable position for him.
Not to mention knockdown that hafted spiked mace has - sure kill on all but super heavies.

These are the conclusions I have come to from playing on siege, duels and battle in that order, if Im wrong Id value input.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Kophka on February 27, 2011, 10:04:49 pm

And then there is polearm stun. When a polearm strikes you with enough dmg - you get a short "staggering" animation during which you can do NOTHING at all. With enough speed you can get in a second guaranteed hit (in native this is possible with spears, in crpg with several weps (depending on build ofc)). This is incredibly annoying in team fights and quite so as well in duel type situations since your opponent can manouver to a favourable position for him.
Not to mention knockdown that hafted spiked mace has - sure kill on all but super heavies.


Right, but the same thing happens with 2 handers too, IF you survive that first hit. You get staggered and can't do anything. Same thing with anything that deals damage, as far as I know. Unless of course there is something coded into the game for polearms ; which, while it may exist, nobody has found, revealed, or discussed.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Xant on February 27, 2011, 10:49:45 pm
Danish has a longer range than German btw, Torp.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IG_Saint on February 27, 2011, 10:49:49 pm
Right, but the same thing happens with 2 handers too, IF you survive that first hit. You get staggered and can't do anything. Same thing with anything that deals damage, as far as I know. Unless of course there is something coded into the game for polearms ; which, while it may exist, nobody has found, revealed, or discussed.

I have never had that I got hit by a 2h and couldn't block before being hit again. I'm pretty sure that's only polearms.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: bruce on February 28, 2011, 01:14:42 am
many ppl says that LHB is the best polearm, we can try comparing it to a german greatsword:

Which costs ~7K more and requires 15 str to use, unlike the LHB with 10 (lolwut)

And it still outranges greatswords on swings. Compare it to mid-tier 2h swords and you see the LHB is a excellent weapon, and possibly too good for its price and str requirement.

Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: RandomDude on February 28, 2011, 02:15:46 am
I have never had that I got hit by a 2h and couldn't block before being hit again. I'm pretty sure that's only polearms.

some players say that a heavier 2h can "stun" them if they block the 2h's strik, but only so they cant swing back (they can attack after they block/dodge the 2nd swing) for example flamberge vs katana

i hate polearms for the stagger or w/e they have and it's usual for them to swing from the opposite direction after they hit u which for me means if i block incorrectly i will have no time to change it
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 28, 2011, 07:56:20 am
I agree that the price of many polearms is low and the requirement is pathetic - but i really don't look at that when i compare :D
imo it would be a good idea to raise the price and requirement of polarms, but dont nerf range, speed and dmg as the lolstab is already better than any attack performed by the polearms mentioned as the best.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Punisher on February 28, 2011, 08:26:14 am
I agree that the price of many polearms is low and the requirement is pathetic - but i really don't look at that when i compare :D
imo it would be a good idea to raise the price and requirement of polarms, but dont nerf range, speed and dmg as the lolstab is already better than any attack performed by the polearms mentioned as the best.

The 2h stab is a lot easier to counter that it seems, if you have LHB for example all you have to do is downblock than, unless you are a low-agi build you will have time to release a sideswing, that has enough range to hit your opponent, just make sure you advance if he backpedals. And if you ever try it you will see that if not used properly, the lolstab bounces easily, and if it bounces you get the same staggering effect as from polearm stun and usually gets you killed.

As for the nerfing, range speed and damage are fine but the prices for the mid-tier hafted polearms should be doubled, so they fit their 2h counterparts (for example with german greatsword+medium 10k armor I have a total gear price of 35k so I have to wear lighter armor to keep up with the upkeep, while a person who uses LHB/Glaive/LHSM can use his medium armor all the time and go with heavier armor from time to time). Also the STR requirements should be a lot higher, something like 16 STR for LHB/Glaive, 18 STR for Long Hafted Spiked Mace. 2h STR requirements should be increased as well.

Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Xant on February 28, 2011, 08:49:05 am
some players say that a heavier 2h can "stun" them if they block the 2h's strik, but only so they cant swing back (they can attack after they block/dodge the 2nd swing) for example flamberge vs katana

i hate polearms for the stagger or w/e they have and it's usual for them to swing from the opposite direction after they hit u which for me means if i block incorrectly i will have no time to change it

That's a completely different thing. It just means you block once more. Polearm stun basically means it's a 1 hit kill weapon as you get to hit for free second time.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Spawny on February 28, 2011, 08:49:49 am
Also the STR requirements should be a lot higher, something like 16 STR for LHB/Glaive, 18 STR for Long Hafted Spiked Mace. 2h STR requirements should be increased as well.

Not only for polearms and 2h weapons. 1h weapons could use an increase in requirements too. The highest requirement currently is the warhammer at 15 strength.

You've got stuff like this in 1h:
Niuweidao 4110 weight 1.5
requirement 6
spd rtng 101
weapon length 88
swing damage 33, cut
thrust damage 0 pierce

Broad One Handed Battle Axe 6002 weight 1.6
requirement 9
spd rtng 98
weapon length 73
swing damage 35, cut
thrust damage 0 pierce
Bonus against Shield

These are just random examples.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Dravic on February 28, 2011, 12:29:10 pm
Niuweidao 4110 weight 1.5
requirement 6
spd rtng 101
weapon length 88
swing damage 33, cut
thrust damage 0 pierce

Broad One Handed Battle Axe 6002 weight 1.6
requirement 9
spd rtng 98
weapon length 73
swing damage 35, cut
thrust damage 0 pierce
Bonus against Shield

+ do you really think Niuweidao can kill you with 6 str...?  Because... I think so! I like this weapon exactly for requirements - if you made req higher, my 6 str 2 ps 27 agi 9 athletics 9 shield 8 weapon master wouldn't be possible :/

Hmm... wait... maybe it would be, if you made Niuweidao's req <10? ;)

Anyway. 1h are known of low requirements, otherwise it would be impossible to have high athletics. Because i dont want 10 athletics without weapon with at least 30 dmg!

And... really... if you want to "buff" req, buff 2h and polearms! Leave 1h as it is and we will have a viable agi builds at least to fight with high str Flamberge's users.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 28, 2011, 01:29:21 pm
The 2h stab is a lot easier to counter that it seems, if you have LHB for example all you have to do is downblock than, unless you are a low-agi build you will have time to release a sideswing, that has enough range to hit your opponent, just make sure you advance if he backpedals.

then the 2H blocks and he can swing... thats called game mechanics, if you block you can swing :D
the main thing is that the 2H is the first who can attack, so he has the advantage.
After 1-2 blocks you can be in range of your opponent no matter what weapon you use, it's all about who can attack first, which, in this case, is the 2h even though it has 30 less range.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Siiem on February 28, 2011, 01:41:07 pm
then the 2H blocks and he can swing... thats called game mechanics, if you block you can swing :D
the main thing is that the 2H is the first who can attack, so he has the advantage.
After 1-2 blocks you can be in range of your opponent no matter what weapon you use, it's all about who can attack first, which, in this case, is the 2h even though it has 30 less range.

Actually the LHB is longer so it will attack first and a sideswing outranges the stab nowadays.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 28, 2011, 01:49:06 pm
Actually the LHB is longer so it will attack first and a sideswing outranges the stab nowadays.

no it don't... a german greatsword lolstab has longer range than a any attack performed with a long hafted blade
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Vibe on February 28, 2011, 01:50:09 pm
Downblock/dodge lolstab, move out of range, sideswing with LHB, win.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 28, 2011, 02:00:42 pm
Downblock/dodge lolstab, move out of range, sideswing with LHB, win.

you can always block and be in range - that's not what this discussion is about.

The problem is that the 2H always has a free attack, as his opponent must be ready to block a superfast lolstab in order to survive, and tehrefore the 2H can just feint his lolstab into a sideswing, and he will also be able to attack first with a swing.

conclusion:
Lolstab has an advantage over the long hafted blade, even though LHB is supposed to be longer than the 2Hs
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Siiem on February 28, 2011, 02:06:09 pm
no it don't... a german greatsword lolstab has longer range than a any attack performed with a long hafted blade

Considering no one knows how much length the 2h stab has anymore it's a completely unreasonable claim to make. So if we just go by what we know then the LHB is only outranged by the flamberge.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 28, 2011, 02:11:00 pm
Considering no one knows how much length the 2h stab has anymore it's a completely unreasonable claim to make. So if we just go by what we know then the LHB is only outranged by the flamberge.

it is not.

i've stated several times that i've tested it by standing within range of a stab (i got hit from that exact distance) and still not being able to hit my opponent with any attack performed by my long hafted blade.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Siiem on February 28, 2011, 02:18:15 pm
it is not.

i've stated several times that i've tested it by standing within range of a stab (i got hit from that exact distance) and still not being able to hit my opponent with any attack performed by my long hafted blade.

Ok then if you said so I guess I just have to belive you.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: v/onMega on February 28, 2011, 02:23:19 pm
The 2h stab is a lot easier to counter that it seems, if you have LHB for example all you have to do is downblock than, unless you are a low-agi build you will have time to release a sideswing, that has enough range to hit your opponent, just make sure you advance if he backpedals. And if you ever try it you will see that if not used properly, the lolstab bounces easily, and if it bounces you get the same staggering effect as from polearm stun and usually gets you killed.

As for the nerfing, range speed and damage are fine but the prices for the mid-tier hafted polearms should be doubled, so they fit their 2h counterparts (for example with german greatsword+medium 10k armor I have a total gear price of 35k so I have to wear lighter armor to keep up with the upkeep, while a person who uses LHB/Glaive/LHSM can use his medium armor all the time and go with heavier armor from time to time). Also the STR requirements should be a lot higher, something like 16 STR for LHB/Glaive, 18 STR for Long Hafted Spiked Mace. 2h STR requirements should be increased as well.

+1 for that.

Just by using polearms now:

Allthough some are limited in att. diections...they can be used really effectively. Some, specially one, have a really good dmg output.

I dont see any reason  to change anything maybe some prices.

P.S: Are there any plans to nerf LHB or LHSM?
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 28, 2011, 02:25:21 pm
+1 for that.

Just by using polearms now:

Allthough some are limited in att. diections...they can be used really effectively. Some, specially one, have a really good dmg output.

I dont see any reason  to change anything maybe some prices.

P.S: Are there any plans to nerf LHB or LHSM?

i would like to make these changes:
higher price for the mid-high tier polearms
higher requirements for the mid-high tier polearms

shorter range for 2H thrusts (read all my other posts for reasons)


and i've heard rumors on some nerfs coming on those 2 weaps, but nothing official
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Punisher on February 28, 2011, 03:44:17 pm
The thing is if 2h loses the stab range (that is already considerably shorter than pre-patch) some polearms will need a nerf as well or they will be stronger than 2h in just about any aspect. So it's either nerf both, or don't nerf either, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 28, 2011, 03:47:27 pm
The thing is if 2h loses the stab range (that is already considerably shorter than pre-patch) some polearms will need a nerf as well or they will be stronger than 2h in just about any aspect. So it's either nerf both, or don't nerf either, in my opinion.

i have to agree with the fact, that we shouldnt make polearms better than 2H, they should be balanced.
I just can't help to feel, that a 153 length polearm shouldnt be outranged by the stab of a 123 length sword... suggestion for a solution coming soon :D

is it possible to make polearms much less effective at short range?
so a 153 length polearm only does half dmg when you are 75 (m/ft, whatever) away? cause you wouldnt be able to make a clear hit from that distance when the blade is on the end of your stick...
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Punisher on February 28, 2011, 03:57:35 pm
i have to agree with the fact, that we shouldnt make polearms better than 2H, they should be balanced.
I just can't help to feel, that a 153 length polearm shouldnt be outranged by the stab of a 123 length sword... suggestion for a solution coming soon :D

is it possible to make polearms much less effective at short range?
so a 153 length polearm only does half dmg when you are 75 (m/ft, whatever) away? cause you wouldnt be able to make a clear hit from that distance when the blade is on the end of your stick...

Don't think it's possible without WSE, so I think for the time being the only adjustment to keep things balanced is increasing str requirement and price for mid-tier polearms, and a general str requirement increase for all weapons.

We could do some tests on the duel server later, I really think you can have the same reach as 2h stab with a right swing, maybe less range with left swing, but I might be wrong.

And I actually plan to switch to polearms once I hit 31, so I will have the chance to be at the other end of the lolstab, at least for a retirement :)
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 28, 2011, 04:22:13 pm
Don't think it's possible without WSE, so I think for the time being the only adjustment to keep things balanced is increasing str requirement and price for mid-tier polearms, and a general str requirement increase for all weapons.

We could do some tests on the duel server later, I really think you can have the same reach as 2h stab with a right swing, maybe less range with left swing, but I might be wrong.

And I actually plan to switch to polearms once I hit 31, so I will have the chance to be at the other end of the lolstab, at least for a retirement :)

we can go try it out anytime :D

but i have already made 2 tests with different persons, and the lolstab outranged my long hafted both times.

one of the times i also tried a 175 long voulge, i was able to outrange lolstab with right-swing and stab
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IG_Saint on February 28, 2011, 04:29:09 pm
we can go try it out anytime :D

but i have already made 2 tests with different persons, and the lolstab outranged my long hafted both times.

one of the times i also tried a 175 long voulge, i was able to outrange lolstab with right-swing and stab

How did you measure the range? If you just used downblock to see when the stab hits, you wouldn't have accounted for the stab bouncing, which it does like to do at extreme range. And how much was the difference between the stab and the lhb swings? I can't imagine it would be a lot.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 28, 2011, 04:30:34 pm
How did you measure the range? If you just used downblock to see when the stab hits, you wouldn't have accounted for the stab bouncing, which it does like to do at extreme range. And how much was the difference between the stab and the lhb swings? I can't imagine it would be a lot.

i didnt downblock, i waited till it could hit me (two tries on each distance)

and the difference was more than you would imaging, i think the range of a lolstab is equal to the stab of a 165-170 polearm or something like that
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Toffi on February 28, 2011, 05:20:18 pm
I've just been on the duel server and i noticed, that the lolstab outranges all the attacks i can perform with my long hafted blade... by far.
I dont see why a 123 length weapon should outrange a 153 weapon by far, even though it is a sword... it just doesnt make sense to me.
Therefore i think that this should be fixed.

Could you please clarify what you mean by "lolstab" first because I don't have a clue. I only know the lolhammer ;-)
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IG_Saint on February 28, 2011, 05:22:21 pm
Could you please clarify what you mean by "lolstab" first because I don't have a clue. I only know the lolhammer ;-)

In this case he just means the 2h sword stab. Usually lolstab is used for spinningthrusts though, like phyrex does.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 28, 2011, 05:23:18 pm
In this case he just means the 2h sword stab. Usually lolstab is used for spinningthrusts though, like phyrex does.

yes you are right, and i know that it is actually just spin-thrusts :D
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: bruce on February 28, 2011, 06:17:42 pm
I'm fairly sure that the stab outranges the long hafted blade, even the right swing. You can only comfortably outrange everything 2h swords can throw at you with a long voulge (which is, however, not a great dueling weapon), but this IS balanced, the new stab is sensible (unlike the old which outranged everything short of a pike), and gives some advantage to the overall more expensive 2h swords, which have shorter sideswings anyway.

The 2h sword stab is fine and sensible, how else would you thrust with a twohanded sword (bar halfswording for extra damage, which is however gimped at the moment)? The old one was silly with 2m range and super-instakill amount of pierce damage, it's fine now.


Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 28, 2011, 06:22:42 pm
I'm fairly sure that the stab outranges the long hafted blade, even the right swing. You can only comfortably outrange everything 2h swords can throw at you with a long voulge (which is, however, not a great dueling weapon), but this IS balanced, the new stab is sensible (unlike the old which outranged everything short of a pike), and gives some advantage to the overall more expensive 2h swords, which have shorter sideswings anyway.

The 2h sword stab is fine and sensible, how else would you thrust with a twohanded sword (bar halfswording for extra damage, which is however gimped at the moment)? The old one was silly with 2m range and super-instakill amount of pierce damage, it's fine now.

so you think it is a good idea that the 123 length sword outranges my 153 length polearm and with it's super-fast stab one-hits my 15 str with 38 armor?
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Punisher on February 28, 2011, 06:44:00 pm
Most (if not all) stabbing polearms would 1hit you with 15 str in 38 armor too.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 28, 2011, 06:49:40 pm
Most (if not all) stabbing polearms would 1hit you with 15 str in 38 armor too.

German greatsword: 30 pierce thurst

LHB: 19 pierce
LHSM: 20 blunt
great long bardiche: 18 pierce
elegant poleaxe: 26 pierce
bec: 26 pierce

the german greatsword has 1,5 times the thrust dmg of the most popular polearms, and the same/more than many of the high tier polearms with the best thrust dmg.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Xant on February 28, 2011, 07:10:46 pm
so you think it is a good idea that the 123 length sword outranges my 153 length polearm and with it's super-fast stab one-hits my 15 str with 38 armor?

You'll have to provide more proof than your word for this, though.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 28, 2011, 07:43:02 pm
You'll have to provide more proof than your word for this, though.

i will take some screenshots soon i think, but i need 3 players to do it properly.
The easiest way to convince you would be by doing it with yourself :D
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Teeth on February 28, 2011, 07:49:41 pm
Well to me it seems that the stab attack is by far the best attack option for most twohanders and especially those that use german greatsword, which is a great part of the 2h because of its good stab. It is fast, long ranged, very good against armor and taken from my personal experience the average player sucks most at blocking stabs. Thats why this attack is overpowered, not the weapon compared to polearms, but the stab compared to the other attacks. In my opinion either range or damage should be reduced and damage on swings should be increased. This way the weapon keeps its quality only distributed better among its available attacks.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 28, 2011, 07:51:52 pm
Well to me it seems that the stab attack is by far the best attack option for most twohanders and especially those that use german greatsword, which is a great part of the 2h because of its good stab. It is fast, long ranged, very good against armor and taken from my personal experience the average player sucks most at blocking stabs. Thats why this attack is overpowered, not the weapon compared to polearms, but the stab compared to the other attacks. In my opinion either range or damage should be reduced and damage on swings should be increased. This way the weapon keeps its quality only distributed better among its available attacks.

i agree, but i wonder how much swing dmg the 2H community would want in exchange for.. lets say 20 stab range?
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Xant on February 28, 2011, 07:54:41 pm
Well to me it seems that the stab attack is by far the best attack option for most twohanders and especially those that use german greatsword, which is a great part of the 2h because of its good stab. It is fast, long ranged, very good against armor and taken from my personal experience the average player sucks most at blocking stabs. Thats why this attack is overpowered, not the weapon compared to polearms, but the stab compared to the other attacks. In my opinion either range or damage should be reduced and damage on swings should be increased. This way the weapon keeps its quality only distributed better among its available attacks.

How is that a problem? For swords stab is the best attack, so what? For 1h left swing is the best attack. For pikes it's thrust. For crushthrough weapons it's overhead. For Flamberge it's right swing.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: bruce on February 28, 2011, 07:57:27 pm
so you think it is a good idea that the 123 length sword outranges my 153 length polearm and with it's super-fast stab one-hits my 15 str with 38 armor?

To be perfectly honest, when I had a 7 PS polearmer I'd onehit that with a swing from my MW glaive, 15 str with 38 armour is paperthin - you shouldn't be complaining about it.

Old 2h stab was broken because it killed plated people outright with MW weapons, now it's balanced. Sure people with heirloomed swords hurt a lot, but they don't oneshot me in (quality) mail bar a more str-oriented build or massive speed bonus.

And I have to agree with Xant, for twohanders the stab is their most devastating attack, I don't see the problem with them having a "strong" side, polearms have them too.


Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on February 28, 2011, 07:59:47 pm
well, first of all, i don't say thrust shouldnt be the best sword attack, i just say that right now it's too good compared to the other attacks, especially because 2H is supposed to be a balanced weapon.

and bruce; i know :D
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Xant on February 28, 2011, 08:00:24 pm
Yeah, thrust with MW german great sword and 7 PS doesn't one hit people unless they run into it with their face, meaning I get both speed bonus from me moving forward and them moving towards me.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: zagibu on March 01, 2011, 12:19:52 am
Polearms in general are too short and too fast. They should be longer, slower and do more pierce damage. What is the difference between an LHB and a 2h sword? One has better swings, the other better thrust (but it should actually be the other way around), but overall they play almost the same. If you must have polearms that feel like 2h swords, at least buff the ones without swings a bit. The same pierce damage as a sword is just not right.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Rumblood on March 01, 2011, 12:20:29 am
I've just been on the duel server and i noticed, that the lolstab outranges all the attacks i can perform with my long hafted blade... by far.
I dont see why a 123 length weapon should outrange a 153 weapon by far, even though it is a sword... it just doesnt make sense to me.
Therefore i think that this should be fixed.

Here's why:

A two handed sword is held at one end of the weapon, with your hands either close together or less than a foot apart. When you a stab lunge, you get nearly the entire length of the weapon in extension. You lose just the near bit where your hands are holding it and you can extend fully in front of you.

A polearm is held with one hand back a foot or so from rear of the weapon, and the other hand about 3 feet or more from the end of the weapon. When you thrust with it, you are turned sideways. Try doing that and you will see that your rear hand will extend less than a foot past your front shoulder.

So yes, a "shorter" 2 hand sword when thrust will exceed the range of a polearm due to the way you hold, thrus,t and swing the polearm.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IG_Saint on March 01, 2011, 12:38:04 am
Polearms in general are too short and too fast. They should be longer, slower and do more pierce damage. What is the difference between an LHB and a 2h sword? One has better swings, the other better thrust (but it should actually be the other way around), but overall they play almost the same. If you must have polearms that feel like 2h swords, at least buff the ones without swings a bit. The same pierce damage as a sword is just not right.

Hmm, have to say that I don't really agree.

Battle Fork   3150   
weight 1.75
requirement 8
spd rtng 92
weapon length 142
swing damage 21, pierce
thrust damage 32 pierce

3150 gold voor a 32 pierce polearm with 92 speed and 142 length AND the ability to use it with shield with no penalties.

I really don't see the problem.

And where do people get the idea that 2h swords were bad at thrusting? Sure a spear or a pike was specifically designed for the task, but so were some of the swords back in the day. 2 meters of sharp, pointy steel to the chest is dangerous whether it's a awlpike or a 2h sword.

I'd also disagree with LHB and 2h swords playing the same. One is completely focused on slashes with a weak stab, the other has a good stab with average slashes.

If anything needs to balancing it's actually the LHB and long maces. They have far to much speed for their price, length and damage.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: polkafranzi on March 01, 2011, 12:56:11 am
Masterwork Danish Greatsword
weight 2.5
requirement 14
spd rtng 94
weapon length 124
swing damage 45, cut
thrust damage 30 pierce
Can't use on horseback
Secondary Mode

lol took me to get to MW before i got the same lolstabbing power as the german

but the extra 1cm length and +2 speed over the german means i would pwn your LHB, i  think

DON'T NERF LOLSTAB, LOLSTAB FTW. NERF LHB AND LHSM

on an unrealted point, this is gay:

Two Handed   155   [10 WPF cost]
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on March 01, 2011, 07:56:47 am
Here's why:

A two handed sword is held at one end of the weapon, with your hands either close together or less than a foot apart. When you a stab lunge, you get nearly the entire length of the weapon in extension. You lose just the near bit where your hands are holding it and you can extend fully in front of you.

A polearm is held with one hand back a foot or so from rear of the weapon, and the other hand about 3 feet or more from the end of the weapon. When you thrust with it, you are turned sideways. Try doing that and you will see that your rear hand will extend less than a foot past your front shoulder.

So yes, a "shorter" 2 hand sword when thrust will exceed the range of a polearm due to the way you hold, thrus,t and swing the polearm.

1. realism isnt an argument in CRPG
2. in that case, the polearm thrust would have much more power, and therefore gonig much more damage (instead of the other way around as it is now)
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Vibe on March 01, 2011, 08:27:32 am
Either way, LHB needs to cost more.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Siiem on March 01, 2011, 09:37:57 am
well, first of all, i don't say thrust shouldnt be the best sword attack, i just say that right now it's too good compared to the other attacks

Wut... you want to change the only advantage 2h swords have against say 1h/shield or polearm.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Vibe on March 01, 2011, 09:42:49 am
What I would focus on is real problems, like the rising amount of horse xbowmen these days.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: bruce on March 01, 2011, 09:48:07 am
What I would focus on is real problems, like the rising amount of horse xbowmen these days.

The US cavalry guys? ;)

Meh... while they more or less mop up normal cavalry which goes near and wipe out small groups of infantry flanking, mostly they don't kill a lot... but they are amazing support.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Vibe on March 01, 2011, 09:54:33 am
Yeah, US cavalry + a lot more I'm seeing these days. Some guys in sarranid armor also appeared gaybowing from a horse's back as well as a number of random people that look up to US cav I guess.

IT SPREADS LIKE A PLAGUE I TELL YOU
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Casimir on March 01, 2011, 10:02:21 am
Once upon a time one archer could have killed these idiots.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Sauce on March 01, 2011, 10:33:44 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: bruce on March 01, 2011, 11:27:12 am
death, reevaluate yourself. Meanwhile Pikes and Polearm users can point blank stab people and not glance(the new lolstab).

Only with some spinning action.

Else, it bounces if you're too close.

Once upon a time one archer could have killed these idiots.

Well, now you need a couple but the end result is the same, full agi builds so they get onehit by everything.

Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: [ptx] on March 01, 2011, 11:32:10 am
2hand swords already got a nerf in animation and pierce damage. If you still think they need to be nerfed because you can't play back pedal polearm hero and spam someone to death, reevaluate yourself. Meanwhile Pikes and Polearm users can point blank stab people and not glance(the new lolstab).
2h got a NERF in animation? What are you smoking? :?

Also, 2h and 1h can stab people point blank with much more ease than polearms ;d
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Gorath on March 01, 2011, 11:41:42 am
2h got a NERF in animation? What are you smoking? :?

Also, 2h and 1h can stab people point blank with much more ease than polearms ;d

^  These :)

The new 2h lolstab, while not having the same length as before (it's still pretty wicked length bonus) is so insanely fast.  More than any other melee move in the game now the current lolstab is made for machinegun spamming.

Polearms suck for thrusting in close unless you've worked on how to spin your mouse for it.  Aim towards feet and slightly to the right/left, then spin the mouse towards them during the attack and upwards towards their head.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Punisher on March 01, 2011, 12:07:08 pm
Btw the +80 range for 2h stab that I saw mentioned here is from the old animation, now it's significantly shorter, just think that if it really was +80 it would mean the German Greatsword has 203 range on stab, that's more than a pike lol, so it's obviously false. I think the real value is around 40-50, considering a 160 lenght Glaive has about the same stab range, maybe slighty longer.

And the 2H stab bounces a lot, at least with the German Greatsword. If you watch people like Phyrex of course it looks like it never bounces because he always gets the sweetspot range, but watch an average player (me :oops:) and you will see it bounces quite easy if you do it too close.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: [ptx] on March 01, 2011, 12:11:17 pm
A simple mouse movement lets you thrust at even point blank range with a 2h sword for almost maximum damage. And with the current animation, the attack connects super-fast.

1h thrust is doable at point blank range for good damage too.

On polearms, it takes some serious spin to stab someone at point blank range, the longer the weapon, the more effort it takes and the point blank damage is greatly reduced anyway.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Nemeth on March 01, 2011, 12:55:51 pm
And the 2H stab bounces a lot, at least with the German Greatsword. If you watch people like Phyrex of course it looks like it never bounces because he always gets the sweetspot range, but watch an average player (me :oops:) and you will see it bounces quite easy if you do it too close.

I'm an avarage player, I saw a lot of other average players and lolstab is no problem. It only takes a bit practise to get the feel for when to spin to your target, but that's about it.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: bruce on March 01, 2011, 01:30:59 pm
considering a 160 lenght Glaive has about the same stab range, maybe slighty longer.

Like hell it does. It has more or less the same slash range as the stab range of a sword, but it's stab is actually a lot shorter then the slashes, and is more or less the weakest attack with a, eg. glaive (not to mention a LHB, then again, it's obviously not meant for stabbing).


Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Punisher on March 01, 2011, 01:53:00 pm
Well I haven't tested it so you might be right. But the lolstab is definetly shorter than the stab of an 174 long english bill for example, so it's impossible to have +80 range.

Anyway I'm 1 mil away from retiring to polearms so I will soon test all these things.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: bruce on March 01, 2011, 01:59:36 pm
Well I haven't tested it so you might be right. But the lolstab is definetly shorter than the stab of an 174 long english bill for example, so it's impossible to have +80 range.

That it is.

It used to be +80 range. Now it's more like +35-40, although faster (but less damaging then it used to be). I'd say it's balanced, personally.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Rumblood on March 01, 2011, 05:03:01 pm
1. realism isnt an argument in CRPG
2. in that case, the polearm thrust would have much more power, and therefore gonig much more damage (instead of the other way around as it is now)

1. Your opinion isn't an argument in cRPG. How about them apples?

2. Polearms are balanced. The thrust for 2Hander is working properly.

Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Rumblood on March 01, 2011, 05:06:50 pm
A simple mouse movement lets you thrust at even point blank range with a 2h sword for almost maximum damage. And with the current animation, the attack connects super-fast.

Lies. The 2H thrust whiffs over 50% of the time from close range. Of course, this isn't talking about using glitches like you do with polearms to overcome game balance. No "Aim down and right and then spin up and left at point blank range to get around the game mechanic".
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: [ptx] on March 01, 2011, 05:15:37 pm
Uh, spin thrust or not, 2h stab whiffs less than polearm stab.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: okiN on March 01, 2011, 05:30:33 pm
Or indeed 1h stab.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Rumblood on March 01, 2011, 08:00:12 pm
Uh, spin thrust or not, 2h stab whiffs less than polearm stab.

Not at close range. I use both longsword and Bec. I know.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on March 01, 2011, 08:02:06 pm
2. Polearms are balanced. The thrust for 2Hander is working properly.


1. Your opinion isn't an argument in cRPG. How about them apples?
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: [ptx] on March 01, 2011, 08:03:55 pm
Not at close range. I use both longsword and Bec. I know.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Rumblood on March 01, 2011, 08:30:25 pm

1. Your opinion isn't an argument in cRPG. How about them apples?

Seeing as the way it works now is the way I say it should, you seem to be the one caught short aren't you?
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Rumblood on March 01, 2011, 08:32:19 pm
(click to show/hide)

I have multiple characters and my main is close to Gen 9. If you HAVEN'T used both of those weapons, what exactly HAVE you been doing while playing cRPG? You need to facepalm yourself  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on March 01, 2011, 08:32:38 pm
Seeing as the way it works now is the way I say it should, you seem to be the one caught short aren't you?

no, because right now we are discussing wether or not lolstab should be nerfed, and in any discussion, you need arguments
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Rumblood on March 01, 2011, 08:33:36 pm
no, because right now we are discussing wether or not lolstab should be nerfed, and in any discussion, you need arguments

And we have agreed that your opinion isn't one. At least we are making progress here  :lol:
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: [ptx] on March 01, 2011, 08:55:02 pm

I have multiple characters and my main is close to Gen 9. If you HAVEN'T used both of those weapons, what exactly HAVE you been doing while playing cRPG? You need to facepalm yourself  :rolleyes:

If you have multiple chars and your main is close to Gen 9 and you still can't do a near full-damage thrust with a 2h weapon at close range... yes, my facepalm is not appropriate.
Here:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Sauce on March 01, 2011, 09:01:34 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on March 01, 2011, 09:06:33 pm
        Unless you're new and started Post-Patch, you'd know the 2hand thrust has been nerfed hard (animation & damage). The length animation is no where near what it use to be. If you still have problems with an already nerfed thrust, you need more practice.

       And now people are complaining that the nerf made it into a "machine gun". It's a sword, it should be fast. ONE single block move eliminates this so called advantage. Why should polearms have the best length, damage, versatility, selection, animations, bonuses, STUNS AND speed?

                            Guess what; blocking down eliminates all your woes, so practice.

first - if you were able to block every attack, all your crpg problems would be solved (except ranged)

and:
1. polearms don't have the best length as the best polearms are outranged lolstab of the best swords
2. polearms doesnt ahve best damage (except if you take one with 80 speed)
3. speed is balanced, depends on what you chose
4. animations is a matter of opinion
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Xant on March 01, 2011, 09:18:35 pm
first - if you were able to block every attack, all your crpg problems would be solved (except ranged)

and:
1. polearms don't have the best length as the best polearms are outranged lolstab of the best swords
2. polearms doesnt ahve best damage (except if you take one with 80 speed)
3. speed is balanced, depends on what you chose
4. animations is a matter of opinion

1. get the pics nao because from everything i've seen it's not true. also show the damage it does at max range.
2. GLA, GLB, Gpoleaxe, long war axe, long bardiche, long axe and war axe do more damage than German Greatsword/Danish Greatsword. Flamberge hardly counts because what we're discussing here is stab, and Flamberge has a different animation for it (doubt anyone would argue that's OP). Many of those polearms also have a bonus vs shields.
3. Most of the most used polearms (read: best) are faster than the greatswords, or at least as fast.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: [ptx] on March 01, 2011, 09:21:52 pm
2h stab animation RANGE was nerfed. It allowed 2h to act as a pike before, now it doesn't.
But now, the 2h stab is an almost animationless, instahit attack. The hit registers almost the moment you release that attack. Which makes it messed up in a different way.
Yeah, an attack doesn't have just one "Goodness" stat that is either nerfed or buffed. Incredible, huh?
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on March 01, 2011, 09:22:15 pm
1. get the pics nao because from everything i've seen it's not true. also show the damage it does at max range.

im not in a hurry to take those pics tbh, i know it's true and that's pretty much all that matters to me.
But i take them sometime wheni  feel like and i have 2 friends online who wants to help.

anyways - if you pm me, we can go to eu_3 and i can show you
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 01, 2011, 09:30:58 pm
-99999 for retarded thread.. the distance on the weapon is the maximum distance it can reach therfore it cannot outreach a weapon with higher distance, if you get in there reach then they are going to hit u.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: [ptx] on March 01, 2011, 09:32:06 pm
IRunUDie, WRONG, you are absolutely clueless.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 01, 2011, 09:34:58 pm
i disagree with you sorry iv been going thourgh the games psychics with an hex editor and im pritty sure that i know what the distances on each weapon truely is thanks.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 01, 2011, 09:42:47 pm
i disagree with you sorry iv been going thourgh the games psychics with an hex editor and im pritty sure that i know what the distances on each weapon truely is thanks.

I just decoded the collision detection routine (using Notepad) and it shows you're wrong.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on March 01, 2011, 09:48:18 pm
I just decoded the collision detection routine (using Notepad) and it shows you're wrong.

1. yes Irunyoudie, you are wrong.

2. if you translate this to english, does it then mean that you know the actual numbers we are looking for?
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Sauce on March 01, 2011, 09:49:18 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 01, 2011, 09:58:13 pm
I just decoded the collision detection routine (using Notepad) and it shows you're wrong.

post code please =)

*EDIT* Too my knowledge im pritty sure the collision routine dosnt show anything to do with the length of each weapon it shows only the hit box area of the client, so please tell me how you worked out the distance a weapon reaches between 2 clients
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Siiem on March 01, 2011, 10:00:56 pm
i know it's true and that's pretty much all that matters to me.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 01, 2011, 10:03:59 pm
post code please =)

K. It's in hex format, but since you said you know how to hex edit I'm sure it's fine.
Code: [Select]
B8 18 27 00 00 E8 26 43  16 00 D9 E8 8B 84 24 30
27 00 00 D9 18 53 55 56  89 4C 24 18 57 8D 8C 24
B4 01 00 00 E8 67 5B ED  FF D9 05 8C B3 8C 00 8B
BC 24 34 27 00 00 D9 9C  24 8C 00 00 00 D9 EE 8B
B4 24 3C 27 00 00 8B AC  24 30 27 00 00 D9 54 24
70 33 DB C7 84 24 B4 01  00 00 AC 82 8C 00 3B FB
0F 85 79 04 00 00 D9 05  BC BB 8C 00 D8 56 50 DF
E0 F6 C4 41 75 13 5F DD  D8 5E DD D8 5D 33 C0 5B
81 C4 18 27 00 00 C2 18  00 D8 9E 90 00 00 00 DF
E0 F6 C4 41 75 19 8B 15  40 D3 96 00 DD D8 8B 42
28 68 BC 7B 91 00 B9 40  D3 96 00 FF D0 D9 EE 39
5D 00 7C 74 8B 8C 24 2C  27 00 00 D9 5C 24 2C 8B
11 8B 0D 1C 3E 9F 00 52  83 C1 04 E8 80 74 F7 FF
85 C0 74 22 8B 84 24 2C  27 00 00 8B 08 51 8B 0D
1C 3E 9F 00 83 C1 04 E8  74 35 ED FF D9 80 B4 02
00 00 D9 5C 24 2C 8B 55  00 A1 F8 3E 9F 00 69 D2
40 0C 00 00 DB 84 02 18  0C 00 00 DC 0D B0 B3 8C
00 D9 5C 24 3C D9 44 24  3C D8 44 24 2C D9 9C 24
8C 00 00 00 D9 EE EB 11  D9 05 DC 67 91 00 D9 9C
24 8C 00 00 00 D9 54 24  70 D9 84 24 8C 00 00 00
39 1E 75 31 DD 05 C8 60  8C 00 D8 E9 D9 5C 24 3C
D9 44 24 3C DC 15 D8 75  8C 00 DF E0 F6 C4 05 7A
0A DD D8 D9 C9 D9 5C 24  70 EB 0C DD DA D9 C9 D9
5C 24 70 EB 02 DD D9 D9  46 70 D8 C9 D9 5C 24 44
D9 46 74 D8 C9 D9 5C 24  48 D9 46 78 D8 C9 D9 5C
24 4C D9 86 90 00 00 00  D8 44 24 44 D9 5C 24 74
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00 D8 44 24 48 8B 8C 24  80 00 00 00 89 8C 24 14
01 00 00 D9 5C 24 78 8B  54 24 78 D9 86 98 00 00
00 89 94 24 0C 01 00 00  D8 44 24 4C D9 5C 24 7C
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48 D9 46 78 D8 C9 D9 5C  24 4C D9 86 90 00 00 00
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00 00 D9 86 94 00 00 00  89 94 24 4C 01 00 00 D8
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89 94 24 74 02 00 00 D8  C9 D9 5C 24 44 D9 46 34
D8 C9 D9 5C 24 48 D8 4E  38 D9 5C 24 4C D9 44 24
44 D8 46 50 D9 9C 24 D4  00 00 00 8B 8C 24 D4 00
00 00 D9 46 54 89 8C 24  18 01 00 00 D8 44 24 48
8B 8C 24 E0 00 00 00 89  8C 24 24 01 00 00 D9 9C
24 D8 00 00 00 8B 94 24  D8 00 00 00 D9 46 58 89
94 24 1C 01 00 00 D8 44  24 4C D9 9C 24 DC 00 00
00 8B 84 24 DC 00 00 00  D9 44 24 74 89 84 24 20
01 00 00 D8 A4 24 A4 00  00 00 D9 9C 24 90 00 00
00 8B 94 24 90 00 00 00  D9 44 24 78 89 94 24 E8
00 00 00 D8 A4 24 A8 00  00 00 8B 94 24 9C 00 00
00 89 94 24 F4 00 00 00  D9 9C 24 94 00 00 00 8B
84 24 94 00 00 00 D9 44  24 7C 89 84 24 EC 00 00
00 D8 A4 24 AC 00 00 00  D9 9C 24 98 00 00 00 8B
8C 24 98 00 00 00 D9 84  24 C4 00 00 00 89 8C 24
F0 00 00 00 D8 A4 24 D4  00 00 00 D9 9C 24 B4 00
00 00 8B 84 24 B4 00 00  00 D9 84 24 C8 00 00 00
89 84 24 A4 00 00 00 D8  A4 24 D8 00 00 00 8B 84
24 C0 00 00 00 89 84 24  B0 00 00 00 D9 9C 24 B8
00 00 00 8B 8C 24 B8 00  00 00 D9 84 24 CC 00 00
00 89 8C 24 A8 00 00 00  D8 A4 24 DC 00 00 00 D9
9C 24 BC 00 00 00 8B 94  24 BC 00 00 00 D9 84 24
90 00 00 00 89 94 24 AC  00 00 00 D9 84 24 94 00
00 00 D9 84 24 98 00 00  00 D9 C1 DE CA D9 C2 DE
CB D9 C9 DE C2 DC C8 DE  C1 D9 5C 24 3C D9 44 24
3C E8 9A 0B 16 00 D9 5C  24 3C D9 44 24 3C 8D 4C
24 3C D9 9C 24 84 00 00  00 51 D9 84 24 88 00 00
00 DC 35 10 B4 8C 00 D9  5C 24 40 E8 D0 35 F5 FF
D9 05 18 78 8C 00 40 D9  1C 24 8D 94 24 0C 01 00
00 89 84 24 A4 00 00 00  52 8D 84 24 20 01 00 00
50 8D 8C 24 C0 01 00 00  E8 23 C8 F3 FF EB 2C 8D
8C 24 3C 01 00 00 DD D8  51 8B CF E8 90 57 FF FF
50 8D 94 24 B8 01 00 00  52 8B CF E8 70 59 FF FF
C7 84 24 A0 00 00 00 01  00 00 00 33 ED 89 5C 24
60 88 5C 24 67 89 5C 24  6C 89 AC 24 E4 00 00 00
39 5E 08 0F 85 1F 03 00  00 8D 84 24 B4 01 00 00
50 8D 8C 24 AC 03 00 00  E8 43 60 ED FF D9 EE 8B
94 24 A8 03 00 00 D9 9C  24 2C 04 00 00 8B 42 38
8D 8C 24 A8 03 00 00 FF  D0 3B FB 0F 85 CC 01 00
00 39 1E 0F 84 C4 01 00  00 D9 84 24 FC 03 00 00
8D 8C 24 B4 00 00 00 D8  A4 24 EC 03 00 00 D9 9C
24 B4 00 00 00 D9 84 24  00 04 00 00 D8 A4 24 F0
03 00 00 D9 9C 24 B8 00  00 00 D9 84 24 04 04 00
00 D8 A4 24 F4 03 00 00  D9 9C 24 BC 00 00 00 E8
9C 1D ED FF 8B BC 24 2C  27 00 00 D9 5C 24 14 8B
0F D9 E8 51 D9 5C 24 30  8B 0D 1C 3E 9F 00 83 C1
04 E8 7A 6F F7 FF 85 C0  74 1B 8B 17 8B 0D 1C 3E
9F 00 52 83 C1 04 E8 75  30 ED FF D9 80 30 07 00
00 D9 5C 24 2C 83 3E 03  D9 05 FC C5 8C 00 D9 5C
24 58 75 0A D9 05 28 B0  8C 00 D9 5C 24 58 D9 44
24 14 DC 1D C0 86 8C 00  DF E0 F6 C4 41 0F 85 25
02 00 00 8B 07 8B 0D 1C  3E 9F 00 50 83 C1 04 E8
1C 6F F7 FF 85 C0 0F 84  0C 02 00 00 D9 44 24 2C
DC 15 C0 86 8C 00 DF E0  F6 C4 41 0F 85 F5 01 00
00 D9 44 24 58 DE D9 DF  E0 F6 C4 41 0F 85 E6 01
00 00 D9 44 24 14 51 DC  25 88 78 8C 00 8D 8C 24
40 01 00 00 8D 94 24 F0  03 00 00 D9 5C 24 40 D9
84 24 B8 00 00 00 D9 44  24 40 D9 C0 DE CA D9 C9
D9 5C 24 48 D9 84 24 BC  00 00 00 D8 C9 D9 5C 24
4C D8 8C 24 C0 00 00 00  D9 5C 24 50 D9 84 24 F0
03 00 00 D8 44 24 48 D9  9C 24 40 01 00 00 D9 84
24 F4 03 00 00 D8 44 24  4C D9 9C 24 44 01 00 00
D9 84 24 F8 03 00 00 D8  44 24 50 D9 9C 24 48 01
00 00 D9 84 24 30 04 00  00 D9 1C 24 51 52 8D 8C
24 B4 03 00 00 E8 06 C6  F3 FF 8D 44 24 1B 50 8D
4C 24 70 51 8B 4C 24 24  8D 94 24 34 01 00 00 52
8D 84 24 B4 03 00 00 50  53 88 5C 24 2F E8 2E 92
FF FF 8B E8 89 AC 24 E4  00 00 00 EB 48 88 5C 24
1B 3B FB 74 11 8D 8C 24  3C 01 00 00 51 8B CF E8
3C 55 FF FF EB 02 33 C0  8D 54 24 1B 52 8D 4C 24
70 51 8D 94 24 34 01 00  00 52 8D 8C 24 B4 03 00
00 51 8B 4C 24 2C 50 E8  E4 91 FF FF 8B E8 89 84
24 E4 00 00 00 3B EB 0F  84 CB 00 00 00 8B 44 24
6C 3B C3 0F 84 BF 00 00  00 F7 40 08 00 00 02 00
0F 84 B2 00 00 00 39 58  20 74 03 8B 40 20 50 B9
D8 B8 C0 01 E8 37 35 EF  FF 8B F8 3B FB 0F 84 95
00 00 00 39 1D FC B8 C0  01 0F 84 89 00 00 00 8D
56 50 52 8D 44 24 78 50  8D 8E 90 00 00 00 E8 4D
1B ED FF 8D 4C 24 74 E8  74 1B ED FF DD D8 E8 7D
3C EC FF DC 0D 20 78 8C  00 8D 4C 24 74 51 DC 05
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Mtemtko on March 01, 2011, 10:05:20 pm
(click to show/hide)

Siiem mute inb4  :lol:
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 01, 2011, 10:07:27 pm
K. It's in hex format, but since you said you know how to hex edit I'm sure it's fine.
Code: [Select]
B8 18 27 00 00 E8 26 43  16 00 D9 E8 8B 84 24 30
27 00 00 D9 18 53 55 56  89 4C 24 18 57 8D 8C 24
B4 01 00 00 E8 67 5B ED  FF D9 05 8C B3 8C 00 8B
BC 24 34 27 00 00 D9 9C  24 8C 00 00 00 D9 EE 8B
B4 24 3C 27 00 00 8B AC  24 30 27 00 00 D9 54 24
70 33 DB C7 84 24 B4 01  00 00 AC 82 8C 00 3B FB
0F 85 79 04 00 00 D9 05  BC BB 8C 00 D8 56 50 DF
E0 F6 C4 41 75 13 5F DD  D8 5E DD D8 5D 33 C0 5B
81 C4 18 27 00 00 C2 18  00 D8 9E 90 00 00 00 DF
E0 F6 C4 41 75 19 8B 15  40 D3 96 00 DD D8 8B 42
28 68 BC 7B 91 00 B9 40  D3 96 00 FF D0 D9 EE 39
5D 00 7C 74 8B 8C 24 2C  27 00 00 D9 5C 24 2C 8B
11 8B 0D 1C 3E 9F 00 52  83 C1 04 E8 80 74 F7 FF
85 C0 74 22 8B 84 24 2C  27 00 00 8B 08 51 8B 0D
1C 3E 9F 00 83 C1 04 E8  74 35 ED FF D9 80 B4 02
00 00 D9 5C 24 2C 8B 55  00 A1 F8 3E 9F 00 69 D2
40 0C 00 00 DB 84 02 18  0C 00 00 DC 0D B0 B3 8C
00 D9 5C 24 3C D9 44 24  3C D8 44 24 2C D9 9C 24
8C 00 00 00 D9 EE EB 11  D9 05 DC 67 91 00 D9 9C
24 8C 00 00 00 D9 54 24  70 D9 84 24 8C 00 00 00
39 1E 75 31 DD 05 C8 60  8C 00 D8 E9 D9 5C 24 3C
D9 44 24 3C DC 15 D8 75  8C 00 DF E0 F6 C4 05 7A
0A DD D8 D9 C9 D9 5C 24  70 EB 0C DD DA D9 C9 D9
5C 24 70 EB 02 DD D9 D9  46 70 D8 C9 D9 5C 24 44
D9 46 74 D8 C9 D9 5C 24  48 D9 46 78 D8 C9 D9 5C
24 4C D9 86 90 00 00 00  D8 44 24 44 D9 5C 24 74
8B 4C 24 74 D9 86 94 00  00 00 89 8C 24 08 01 00
00 D8 44 24 48 8B 8C 24  80 00 00 00 89 8C 24 14
01 00 00 D9 5C 24 78 8B  54 24 78 D9 86 98 00 00
00 89 94 24 0C 01 00 00  D8 44 24 4C D9 5C 24 7C
8B 44 24 7C D9 44 24 70  89 84 24 10 01 00 00 D9
C0 D8 4E 70 D9 5C 24 44  D9 46 74 D8 C9 D9 5C 24
48 D9 46 78 D8 C9 D9 5C  24 4C D9 86 90 00 00 00
D8 44 24 44 D9 9C 24 C4  00 00 00 8B 94 24 C4 00
00 00 D9 86 94 00 00 00  89 94 24 4C 01 00 00 D8
44 24 48 8B 94 24 D0 00  00 00 89 94 24 58 01 00
00 D9 9C 24 C8 00 00 00  8B 84 24 C8 00 00 00 D9
86 98 00 00 00 89 84 24  50 01 00 00 D8 44 24 4C
D9 9C 24 CC 00 00 00 8B  8C 24 CC 00 00 00 D9 46
30 89 8C 24 54 01 00 00  D8 CA D9 5C 24 44 D9 46
34 D8 CA D9 5C 24 48 D9  46 38 DE CA D9 C9 D9 5C
24 4C D9 46 50 D8 44 24  44 D9 9C 24 A4 00 00 00
8B 84 24 A4 00 00 00 D9  46 54 89 84 24 6C 02 00
00 D8 44 24 48 8B 84 24  B0 00 00 00 89 84 24 78
02 00 00 D9 9C 24 A8 00  00 00 8B 8C 24 A8 00 00
00 D9 46 58 89 8C 24 70  02 00 00 D8 44 24 4C D9
9C 24 AC 00 00 00 8B 94  24 AC 00 00 00 D9 46 30
89 94 24 74 02 00 00 D8  C9 D9 5C 24 44 D9 46 34
D8 C9 D9 5C 24 48 D8 4E  38 D9 5C 24 4C D9 44 24
44 D8 46 50 D9 9C 24 D4  00 00 00 8B 8C 24 D4 00
00 00 D9 46 54 89 8C 24  18 01 00 00 D8 44 24 48
8B 8C 24 E0 00 00 00 89  8C 24 24 01 00 00 D9 9C
24 D8 00 00 00 8B 94 24  D8 00 00 00 D9 46 58 89
94 24 1C 01 00 00 D8 44  24 4C D9 9C 24 DC 00 00
00 8B 84 24 DC 00 00 00  D9 44 24 74 89 84 24 20
01 00 00 D8 A4 24 A4 00  00 00 D9 9C 24 90 00 00
00 8B 94 24 90 00 00 00  D9 44 24 78 89 94 24 E8
00 00 00 D8 A4 24 A8 00  00 00 8B 94 24 9C 00 00
00 89 94 24 F4 00 00 00  D9 9C 24 94 00 00 00 8B
84 24 94 00 00 00 D9 44  24 7C 89 84 24 EC 00 00
00 D8 A4 24 AC 00 00 00  D9 9C 24 98 00 00 00 8B
8C 24 98 00 00 00 D9 84  24 C4 00 00 00 89 8C 24
F0 00 00 00 D8 A4 24 D4  00 00 00 D9 9C 24 B4 00
00 00 8B 84 24 B4 00 00  00 D9 84 24 C8 00 00 00
89 84 24 A4 00 00 00 D8  A4 24 D8 00 00 00 8B 84
24 C0 00 00 00 89 84 24  B0 00 00 00 D9 9C 24 B8
00 00 00 8B 8C 24 B8 00  00 00 D9 84 24 CC 00 00
00 89 8C 24 A8 00 00 00  D8 A4 24 DC 00 00 00 D9
9C 24 BC 00 00 00 8B 94  24 BC 00 00 00 D9 84 24
90 00 00 00 89 94 24 AC  00 00 00 D9 84 24 94 00
00 00 D9 84 24 98 00 00  00 D9 C1 DE CA D9 C2 DE
CB D9 C9 DE C2 DC C8 DE  C1 D9 5C 24 3C D9 44 24
3C E8 9A 0B 16 00 D9 5C  24 3C D9 44 24 3C 8D 4C
24 3C D9 9C 24 84 00 00  00 51 D9 84 24 88 00 00
00 DC 35 10 B4 8C 00 D9  5C 24 40 E8 D0 35 F5 FF
D9 05 18 78 8C 00 40 D9  1C 24 8D 94 24 0C 01 00
00 89 84 24 A4 00 00 00  52 8D 84 24 20 01 00 00
50 8D 8C 24 C0 01 00 00  E8 23 C8 F3 FF EB 2C 8D
8C 24 3C 01 00 00 DD D8  51 8B CF E8 90 57 FF FF
50 8D 94 24 B8 01 00 00  52 8B CF E8 70 59 FF FF
C7 84 24 A0 00 00 00 01  00 00 00 33 ED 89 5C 24
60 88 5C 24 67 89 5C 24  6C 89 AC 24 E4 00 00 00
39 5E 08 0F 85 1F 03 00  00 8D 84 24 B4 01 00 00
50 8D 8C 24 AC 03 00 00  E8 43 60 ED FF D9 EE 8B
94 24 A8 03 00 00 D9 9C  24 2C 04 00 00 8B 42 38
8D 8C 24 A8 03 00 00 FF  D0 3B FB 0F 85 CC 01 00
00 39 1E 0F 84 C4 01 00  00 D9 84 24 FC 03 00 00
8D 8C 24 B4 00 00 00 D8  A4 24 EC 03 00 00 D9 9C
24 B4 00 00 00 D9 84 24  00 04 00 00 D8 A4 24 F0
03 00 00 D9 9C 24 B8 00  00 00 D9 84 24 04 04 00
00 D8 A4 24 F4 03 00 00  D9 9C 24 BC 00 00 00 E8
9C 1D ED FF 8B BC 24 2C  27 00 00 D9 5C 24 14 8B
0F D9 E8 51 D9 5C 24 30  8B 0D 1C 3E 9F 00 83 C1
04 E8 7A 6F F7 FF 85 C0  74 1B 8B 17 8B 0D 1C 3E
9F 00 52 83 C1 04 E8 75  30 ED FF D9 80 30 07 00
00 D9 5C 24 2C 83 3E 03  D9 05 FC C5 8C 00 D9 5C
24 58 75 0A D9 05 28 B0  8C 00 D9 5C 24 58 D9 44
24 14 DC 1D C0 86 8C 00  DF E0 F6 C4 41 0F 85 25
02 00 00 8B 07 8B 0D 1C  3E 9F 00 50 83 C1 04 E8
1C 6F F7 FF 85 C0 0F 84  0C 02 00 00 D9 44 24 2C
DC 15 C0 86 8C 00 DF E0  F6 C4 41 0F 85 F5 01 00
00 D9 44 24 58 DE D9 DF  E0 F6 C4 41 0F 85 E6 01
00 00 D9 44 24 14 51 DC  25 88 78 8C 00 8D 8C 24
40 01 00 00 8D 94 24 F0  03 00 00 D9 5C 24 40 D9
84 24 B8 00 00 00 D9 44  24 40 D9 C0 DE CA D9 C9
D9 5C 24 48 D9 84 24 BC  00 00 00 D8 C9 D9 5C 24
4C D8 8C 24 C0 00 00 00  D9 5C 24 50 D9 84 24 F0
03 00 00 D8 44 24 48 D9  9C 24 40 01 00 00 D9 84
24 F4 03 00 00 D8 44 24  4C D9 9C 24 44 01 00 00
D9 84 24 F8 03 00 00 D8  44 24 50 D9 9C 24 48 01
00 00 D9 84 24 30 04 00  00 D9 1C 24 51 52 8D 8C
24 B4 03 00 00 E8 06 C6  F3 FF 8D 44 24 1B 50 8D
4C 24 70 51 8B 4C 24 24  8D 94 24 34 01 00 00 52
8D 84 24 B4 03 00 00 50  53 88 5C 24 2F E8 2E 92
FF FF 8B E8 89 AC 24 E4  00 00 00 EB 48 88 5C 24
1B 3B FB 74 11 8D 8C 24  3C 01 00 00 51 8B CF E8
3C 55 FF FF EB 02 33 C0  8D 54 24 1B 52 8D 4C 24
70 51 8D 94 24 34 01 00  00 52 8D 8C 24 B4 03 00
00 51 8B 4C 24 2C 50 E8  E4 91 FF FF 8B E8 89 84
24 E4 00 00 00 3B EB 0F  84 CB 00 00 00 8B 44 24
6C 3B C3 0F 84 BF 00 00  00 F7 40 08 00 00 02 00
0F 84 B2 00 00 00 39 58  20 74 03 8B 40 20 50 B9
D8 B8 C0 01 E8 37 35 EF  FF 8B F8 3B FB 0F 84 95
00 00 00 39 1D FC B8 C0  01 0F 84 89 00 00 00 8D
56 50 52 8D 44 24 78 50  8D 8E 90 00 00 00 E8 4D
1B ED FF 8D 4C 24 74 E8  74 1B ED FF DD D8 E8 7D
3C EC FF DC 0D 20 78 8C  00 8D 4C 24 74 51 DC 05

can you also upload the template filel you used for the code..
can you also upload the VB code you edited in notepad,
and also anserw my previous question about how you worked out the distance between 2 clients using the collision routine as that only shows the viarables of a clients hitbox
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 01, 2011, 10:08:38 pm
can you also upload the template filel you used for the code..

Template file? I use no such thing. Real men do raw hex editing.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 01, 2011, 10:13:26 pm
can you also upload the VB code you edited in notepad,
and also anserw my previous question about how you worked out the distance between 2 clients using the collision routine as that only shows the viarables of a clients hitbox.
well i cant really do much without the template file as i use programs to do my hex editing im not very good at stringing hex.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 01, 2011, 10:14:34 pm
can you also upload the VB code you edited in notepad,
and also anserw my previous question about how you worked out the distance between 2 clients using the collision routine as that only shows the viarables of a clients hitbox.
well i cant really do much without the template file as i use programs to do my hex editing im not very good at stringing hex.

Why don't you show your template file?
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on March 01, 2011, 10:16:09 pm
@cmpxchg8b
if you know the actual range of a 2H stab, culd you do me a favor and tell me? :D (and the range of the longest polearm attack, too)
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 01, 2011, 10:16:55 pm
Why don't you show your template file?
i asked you the question first did i not? why cant you upload your notepad that you decoded the so called collision routine.. like i said only shows viarables of a clients hitbox. my template file is taken from the INI files in M&B folder, im sure you know what I ment by template file yes? to load the data into a program to allow it to decode the text for me.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 01, 2011, 10:21:13 pm
i asked you the question first did i not? why cant you upload your notepad that you decoded the so called collision routine.. like i said only shows viarables of a clients hitbox. my template file is taken from the INI files in M&B folder, im sure you know what I ment by template file yes? to load the data into a program to allow it to decode the text for me.

Here's my notepad: http://www.mediafire.com/?o4ks2uhwyxbscl5
Your turn now.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Mtemtko on March 01, 2011, 10:24:55 pm
Why don't you show your template file?

that really does sound erotic.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 01, 2011, 10:25:14 pm
Here's my notepad: http://www.mediafire.com/?o4ks2uhwyxbscl5
Your turn now.
Nice, A notepad in EXE format sure.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 01, 2011, 10:27:22 pm
Nice, A notepad in EXE format sure.

What format do you want? Tell me and I shall deliver.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IG_Saint on March 01, 2011, 10:30:47 pm
Nice, A notepad in EXE format sure.

Um, you realise that's just his notepad.exe? Literally the exe he uses to open notepad?

@CMP, if you do have the animation ranges and maybe the speeds, could we have them please? I'd quite like an updated animation range/speed list. Pretty please?
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 01, 2011, 10:45:27 pm
What format do you want? Tell me and I shall deliver.
Copy and paste into a spioler, Also how did you work out the distance on a weapon using viarables on clients hitbox area? because that is what the collision routine is.
Code: [Select]
ready_slashleft_twohanded 1678901248 1679818762  1
  0.350000 slashleft_twohanded 12 16 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_slashleft_twohanded 1678901248 2183135242  1
  0.610000 slashleft_twohanded 16 38 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_slashleft_twohanded_continue 0 572522497  1
  0.500000 slashleft_twohanded 38 52 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_slashleft_twohanded 1678770176 35651599  1
  0.300000 anim_human 26425 26420 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_slashleft_twohanded 1678770176 35651599  1
  0.600000 anim_human 26425 26420 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 ready_thrust_twohanded 1678835712 1679818762  1
  0.350000 2h_sword_thrust_full_3.11.10 0 5 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_thrust_twohanded 1678835712 2183135242  1
  0.610000 2h_sword_thrust_full_3.11.10 5 29 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_thrust_twohanded_continue 0 572522497  1
  0.100000 2h_sword_thrust_full_3.11.10 29 43 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_thrust_twohanded 0 35651599  1
  0.600000 anim_human 26015 26016 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_thrust_twohanded 0 35651599  1
  0.700000 anim_human 26015 26016 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 ready_overswing_twohanded 524288 1679818762  1
  0.350000 attacks_twohanded_overswing 11 26 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_overswing_twohanded 524288 2183135242  1
  0.610000 attacks_twohanded_overswing 26 55 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_overswing_twohanded_continue 0 572522497  1
  0.500000 attacks_twohanded_overswing 55 66 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_overswing_twohanded 0 35651599  1
  0.300000 anim_human 26215 26212 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_overswing_twohanded 0 35651599  1
  0.600000 anim_human 26215 26212 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 ready_thrust_onehanded 1679884800 1679843338  1
  0.350000 attacks_thrust_onehanded 5 13 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_thrust_onehanded 1679884800 2183159818  1
  0.620000 attacks_thrust_onehanded 12 32 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_thrust_onehanded_continue 0 572547073  1
  0.300000 attacks_thrust_onehanded 32 54 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_thrust_onehanded 512 35676175  1
  0.600000 anim_human 28515 28513 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_thrust_onehanded 512 35676175  1
  0.700000 anim_human 28515 28513 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 ready_thrust_onehanded_horseback 1679884800 1679843338  1
  0.350000 attacks_thrust_onehanded 5 13 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_thrust_onehanded_horseback 1679884800 2183159818  1
  0.620000 attacks_thrust_onehanded 12 32 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_thrust_onehanded_horseback_continue 0 572547073  1
  0.300000 attacks_thrust_onehanded 32 54 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_thrust_onehanded_horseback 512 35676175  1
  0.600000 anim_human 28515 28513 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_thrust_onehanded_horseback 512 35676175  1
  0.700000 anim_human 28515 28513 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 ready_thrust_onehanded_lance 1679884800 1679843338  1
  0.350000 thrust_onehanded_lance_hb 5 8 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_thrust_onehanded_lance 1679884800 2183159818  1
  0.620000 thrust_onehanded_lance_hb 8 33 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_thrust_onehanded_lance_continue 0 572547073  1
  0.100000 thrust_onehanded_lance_hb 33 45 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_thrust_onehanded_lance 512 35676175  1
  0.600000 anim_human 29515 29513 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_thrust_onehanded_lance 512 35676175  1
  0.700000 anim_human 29515 29513 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 ready_slashright_onehanded 1679949824 1679818762  1
  0.350000 attacks_single_righttoleft 2 5 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_slashright_onehanded 1679949824 2183135242  1
  0.600000 attacks_single_righttoleft 5 28 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_slashright_onehanded_continue 0 572522497  1
  0.400000 attacks_single_righttoleft 28 44 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_slashright_onehanded 0 35651599  1
  0.300000 parry_single_righttoleft 0 14 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_slashright_onehanded 0 35651599  1
  0.600000 parry_single_righttoleft 0 14 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 ready_slashleft_onehanded 1680080896 1679818762  1
  0.350000 attacks_single_lefttoright 4 11 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_slashleft_onehanded 1680080896 2183135242  1
  0.610000 attacks_single_lefttoright 11 29 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_slashleft_onehanded_continue 0 572522497  1
  0.400000 attacks_single_lefttoright 29 43 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_slashleft_onehanded 0 35651599  1
  0.300000 parry_single_lefttoright 0 75 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_slashleft_onehanded 0 35651599  1
  0.600000 parry_single_lefttoright 0 75 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 ready_overswing_onehanded 524800 1679839242  1
  0.350000 attacks_single_overswing 5 16 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_overswing_onehanded 524800 2183155722  1
  0.600000 attacks_single_overswing 16 37 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_overswing_onehanded_continue 0 572542977  1
  0.200000 attacks_single_overswing 37 40 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_overswing_onehanded 512 35672079  1
  0.300000 anim_human 29315 29310 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_overswing_onehanded 512 35672079  1
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 01, 2011, 10:54:03 pm
Copy and paste into a spioler, Also how did you work out the distance on a weapon using viarables on clients hitbox area? because that is what the collision routine is.
Code: [Select]
ready_slashleft_twohanded 1678901248 1679818762  1
  0.350000 slashleft_twohanded 12 16 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_slashleft_twohanded 1678901248 2183135242  1
  0.610000 slashleft_twohanded 16 38 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_slashleft_twohanded_continue 0 572522497  1
  0.500000 slashleft_twohanded 38 52 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_slashleft_twohanded 1678770176 35651599  1
  0.300000 anim_human 26425 26420 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_slashleft_twohanded 1678770176 35651599  1
  0.600000 anim_human 26425 26420 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 ready_thrust_twohanded 1678835712 1679818762  1
  0.350000 2h_sword_thrust_full_3.11.10 0 5 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_thrust_twohanded 1678835712 2183135242  1
  0.610000 2h_sword_thrust_full_3.11.10 5 29 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_thrust_twohanded_continue 0 572522497  1
  0.100000 2h_sword_thrust_full_3.11.10 29 43 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_thrust_twohanded 0 35651599  1
  0.600000 anim_human 26015 26016 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_thrust_twohanded 0 35651599  1
  0.700000 anim_human 26015 26016 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 ready_overswing_twohanded 524288 1679818762  1
  0.350000 attacks_twohanded_overswing 11 26 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_overswing_twohanded 524288 2183135242  1
  0.610000 attacks_twohanded_overswing 26 55 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_overswing_twohanded_continue 0 572522497  1
  0.500000 attacks_twohanded_overswing 55 66 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_overswing_twohanded 0 35651599  1
  0.300000 anim_human 26215 26212 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_overswing_twohanded 0 35651599  1
  0.600000 anim_human 26215 26212 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 ready_thrust_onehanded 1679884800 1679843338  1
  0.350000 attacks_thrust_onehanded 5 13 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_thrust_onehanded 1679884800 2183159818  1
  0.620000 attacks_thrust_onehanded 12 32 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_thrust_onehanded_continue 0 572547073  1
  0.300000 attacks_thrust_onehanded 32 54 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_thrust_onehanded 512 35676175  1
  0.600000 anim_human 28515 28513 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_thrust_onehanded 512 35676175  1
  0.700000 anim_human 28515 28513 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 ready_thrust_onehanded_horseback 1679884800 1679843338  1
  0.350000 attacks_thrust_onehanded 5 13 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_thrust_onehanded_horseback 1679884800 2183159818  1
  0.620000 attacks_thrust_onehanded 12 32 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_thrust_onehanded_horseback_continue 0 572547073  1
  0.300000 attacks_thrust_onehanded 32 54 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_thrust_onehanded_horseback 512 35676175  1
  0.600000 anim_human 28515 28513 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_thrust_onehanded_horseback 512 35676175  1
  0.700000 anim_human 28515 28513 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 ready_thrust_onehanded_lance 1679884800 1679843338  1
  0.350000 thrust_onehanded_lance_hb 5 8 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_thrust_onehanded_lance 1679884800 2183159818  1
  0.620000 thrust_onehanded_lance_hb 8 33 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_thrust_onehanded_lance_continue 0 572547073  1
  0.100000 thrust_onehanded_lance_hb 33 45 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_thrust_onehanded_lance 512 35676175  1
  0.600000 anim_human 29515 29513 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_thrust_onehanded_lance 512 35676175  1
  0.700000 anim_human 29515 29513 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 ready_slashright_onehanded 1679949824 1679818762  1
  0.350000 attacks_single_righttoleft 2 5 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_slashright_onehanded 1679949824 2183135242  1
  0.600000 attacks_single_righttoleft 5 28 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_slashright_onehanded_continue 0 572522497  1
  0.400000 attacks_single_righttoleft 28 44 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_slashright_onehanded 0 35651599  1
  0.300000 parry_single_righttoleft 0 14 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_slashright_onehanded 0 35651599  1
  0.600000 parry_single_righttoleft 0 14 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 ready_slashleft_onehanded 1680080896 1679818762  1
  0.350000 attacks_single_lefttoright 4 11 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_slashleft_onehanded 1680080896 2183135242  1
  0.610000 attacks_single_lefttoright 11 29 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_slashleft_onehanded_continue 0 572522497  1
  0.400000 attacks_single_lefttoright 29 43 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_slashleft_onehanded 0 35651599  1
  0.300000 parry_single_lefttoright 0 75 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_slashleft_onehanded 0 35651599  1
  0.600000 parry_single_lefttoright 0 75 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 ready_overswing_onehanded 524800 1679839242  1
  0.350000 attacks_single_overswing 5 16 7 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_overswing_onehanded 524800 2183155722  1
  0.600000 attacks_single_overswing 16 37 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 release_overswing_onehanded_continue 0 572542977  1
  0.200000 attacks_single_overswing 37 40 2 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 blocked_overswing_onehanded 512 35672079  1
  0.300000 anim_human 29315 29310 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_overswing_onehanded 512 35672079  1

Uh, what does that have to do with anything? That's just actions.txt, and there's nothing about the range in there.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 01, 2011, 10:54:55 pm
Uh, what does that have to do with anything? That's just actions.txt, and there's nothing about the range in there.
lol? that is the animation which if used with viarables you can see where the animations end im sure you should know that.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 01, 2011, 10:56:47 pm
lol? that is the animation which if used with viarables you can see where the animations end im sure you should know that.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 01, 2011, 10:57:42 pm
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
that makes sense
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 01, 2011, 10:58:08 pm
that makes sense

About as much as your post. :D

PS: opening .txt files is not "hex editing". It's "opening .txt files".
PS2: again, there's nothing about range in there.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Siiem on March 01, 2011, 10:58:28 pm
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

 :lol:
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 01, 2011, 11:01:02 pm
About as much as your post. :D
Yes if you say so, I havnt really seen you make much sense as you say your using the collision dection routine to work out the distance on weapons, when that only shows the clients hitbox's. The string I posted was from the ACTION.TXT which I used as a template with the Viarables folder to decode the end of each string to find out where the animation ends which shows you the distance.

Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 01, 2011, 11:04:00 pm
Yes if you say so, I havnt really seen you make much sense as you say your using the collision dection routine to work out the distance on weapons, when that only shows the clients hitbox's. The string I posted was from the ACTION.TXT which I used as a template with the Viarables folder to decode the end of each string to find out where the animation ends which shows you the distance.

It depends on the actual filesystem layout of your Viarables folder. If the IO is memory mapped, you could get clear values indicating start and end frame of animation, thus making range calculation trivial. However, in the case of shared memory, it's much more difficult to decode the IPO keys. This leads to fuzzy and inaccurate values; to get the proper ones you should run them through a Mersenne Twister pseudo-random number generator and RSA-decode them with at least 256 bits key length.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 01, 2011, 11:09:26 pm
It depends on the actual filesystem layout of your Viarables folder. If the IO is memory mapped, you could get clear values indicating start and end frame of animation, thus making range calculation trivial. However, in the case of shared memory, it's much more difficult to decode the IPO keys. This leads to fuzzy and inaccurate values; to get the proper ones you should run them through a Mersenne Twister pseudo-random number generator and RSA-decode them with at least 256 bits key length.
umm ok? i see what your saynig but why does that have relevance?
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 01, 2011, 11:12:24 pm
umm ok? i see what your saynig but why does that have relevance?

It doesn't? Obviously, the output is taken from an auto-flushing output file stream, and you can't demangle the quad-words just like that. Add to that that the animations are used in conjunction with strategic entities, and decoding the actual range becomes much more challenging (or impossible, if you don't know the linkage convention used by the compiler).
Is that how you decoded it?
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Tetris on March 01, 2011, 11:16:24 pm
Someone pass the damn popcorn.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 01, 2011, 11:19:07 pm
It doesn't? Obviously, the output is taken from an auto-flushing output file stream, and you can't demangle the quad-words just like that. Add to that that the animations are used in conjunction with strategic entities, and decoding the actual range becomes much more challenging (or impossible, if you don't know the linkage convention used by the compiler).
Is that how you decoded it?
thats in no way how i decoded it as it would liek you said be impossible.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: [ptx] on March 01, 2011, 11:20:05 pm
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 01, 2011, 11:22:12 pm
thats in no way how i decoded it as it would liek you said be impossible.

So, how exactly did you do it? Did you just use a template file and a hex editor to derive the normalized representation of the data structures? That would work as well, but only a very experienced reverse engineer with good knowledge of Visual Basic could pull that off.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 01, 2011, 11:24:58 pm
So, how exactly did you do it? Did you just use a template file and a hex editor to derive the normalized representation of the data structures? That would work as well, but only a very experienced reverse engineer with good knowledge of Visual Basic could pull that off.
Like i said before 3 times i think.. I done it in HEX with a template file im sure i can quote my posts.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 01, 2011, 11:29:32 pm
Like i said before 3 times i think.. I done it in HEX.

Ok, I got that. But which method of integral derivation did you use? Did you apply a Fourier Transform and then decoded the stream through an RSR232 port at TTL level? Or did you go for a simpler but far more effective matrix inversion coupled with a simulated capsule bounding body collision (in a B-Tree domain, obviously)?
Forgive my curiosity, but what you achieved is very impressive and I would like to know more about it.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 01, 2011, 11:46:12 pm
Ok, I got that. But which method of integral derivation did you use? Did you apply a Fourier Transform and then decoded the stream through an RSR232 port at TTL level? Or did you go for a simpler but far more effective matrix inversion coupled with a simulated capsule bounding body collision (in a B-Tree domain, obviously)?
Forgive my curiosity, but what you achieved is very impressive and I would like to know more about it.
sowe i cant be arsed anymore lol i wanna go play.. but i did use matrix linear algebra in combination with simulated capsule rigid bdy collision.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Xant on March 01, 2011, 11:49:58 pm
Damn /it/, just when this was getting so interesting.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 01, 2011, 11:50:21 pm
sowe i cant be arsed anymore lol i wanna go play.. but i did use matrix linear algebra in combination with simulated capsule rigid bdy collision.

;d
See, I knew you weren't able to hex edit!
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 01, 2011, 11:53:13 pm
;d
See, I knew you weren't able to hex edit!
sorry but i never implyed that or did i? im sure i anserwed your question breif.. as you are talking about bounding body collision is completly wrong as its based on a rigid collision LIKE i said im going to play. bye
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 01, 2011, 11:59:54 pm
sorry but i never implyed that or did i? im sure i anserwed your question breif.. as you are talking about bounding body collision is completly wrong as its based on a rigid collision LIKE i said im going to play. bye

Making up excuses doesn't work with me, I can see right through it!
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: WaltF4 on March 02, 2011, 12:00:51 am
Can we get someone to do a dramatic reading of this thread?
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 02, 2011, 12:01:13 am
Making up excuses doesn't work with me, I can see right through it!
im pritty sure i anserwed your question.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 02, 2011, 12:24:10 am
im pritty sure i anserwed your question.

At least put some effort into your trolling, FFS. :(
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 02, 2011, 12:26:08 am
At least put some effort into your trolling, FFS. :(
effort? i had u going for over 3 hours :P
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 02, 2011, 12:28:41 am
effort? i had u going for over 3 hours :P

You didn't realize that my posts were just random words thrown together?
Troll got trolled. :lol:
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 02, 2011, 12:30:32 am
You didn't realize that my posts were just random words thrown together?
Troll got trolled. :lol:

sorry but yes I did realise your posts made no sense at all as you was talking about 10 differnt things in 1 post at some points.. i simply couldnt be fucked to carry on =/


PS. what u was saying about a matrix combination with a rigid body collision was actually correct apart from the "bounding" part u added. as 3D objects require a rigid body to hit each other.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: cmp on March 02, 2011, 12:37:36 am
PS. what u was saying about a matrix combination with a rigid body collision was actually correct apart from the "bounding" part u added. as 3D objects require a rigid body to hit each other.

Somewhat. The game creates a capsule body on the fly (yes, even for curved weapons) and checks for collision using that.

By the way, since the trolling is over:

@CMP, if you do have the animation ranges and maybe the speeds, could we have them please? I'd quite like an updated animation range/speed list. Pretty please?

Nah, the ranges aren't stored anywhere, they depend on the animations. I honestly have no idea how to measure them (CG and animation aren't really my fields).
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: MountedRhader on March 02, 2011, 12:54:40 am
Back on topic. lol-stab is funky and weird and keeps bizarre hit ranges.  :lol:
I think it has to do with 360 degree turning angles.. Or like someone else said when you're running full fledged towards a wall you can make 90 degree turns.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 02, 2011, 12:58:51 am
Back on topic. lol-stab is funky and weird and keeps bizarre hit ranges.  :lol:

I am never trolling 3 hours of my life away agian... Lol stab is gay anyway

I here by rename Lol Stab - Gay Stab... All in favour!
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on March 02, 2011, 03:45:01 pm
Back on topic. lol-stab is funky and weird and keeps bizarre hit ranges.  :lol:
I think it has to do with 360 degree turning angles.. Or like someone else said when you're running full fledged towards a wall you can make 90 degree turns.

i dont mind the spin thrusts and stuff like that; sure it's weird, but i can live with it, as long as the range gets nerfed, the lolstab is too long compared to other weapons imo
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Camaris on March 02, 2011, 04:08:54 pm
Can we nerf overheads too if lolstab gets nerfed ;)
I have no problem with stabs i block them well but overheads are so ugly to block i guess they need a hard nerf ;)
Probably best would be only to allow rightswings.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Torp on March 02, 2011, 04:14:48 pm
Can we nerf overheads too if lolstab gets nerfed ;)
I have no problem with stabs i block them well but overheads are so ugly to block i guess they need a hard nerf ;)
Probably best would be only to allow rightswings.

well, i wouldnt call overhead, maybe they aer hard to block, but they dont do unbeliveably much damage, and they dont have the range of a long polearm.
anyways, if every attack was easy to block, how would you get kills?
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Punisher on March 02, 2011, 04:26:07 pm
Can we nerf overheads too if lolstab gets nerfed ;)
I have no problem with stabs i block them well but overheads are so ugly to block i guess they need a hard nerf ;)
Probably best would be only to allow rightswings.

+1, 2h weapons should have right swing as the only attack, they are too OP anyway, this would only make them balanced.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Vibe on March 03, 2011, 07:59:19 am
+1, 2h weapons should have right swing as the only attack, they are too OP anyway, this would only make them balanced.

Why not just replace all 4 directional attack with one hilt attack that does 3 blunt dmg. This way we can really have balance.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Punisher on March 03, 2011, 08:52:53 am
Why not just replace all 4 directional attack with one hilt attack that does 3 blunt dmg. This way we can really have balance.

3?!! That's too OP man, cmon, 1 blunt damage is definetly more than enough.
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: Vibe on March 03, 2011, 09:03:52 am
3?!! That's too OP man, cmon, 1 blunt damage is definetly more than enough.

NO!

This...

is...

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


BALANCE!!!
Title: Re: Lolstab range
Post by: IRunUDie on March 03, 2011, 11:13:22 pm
NO!

This...

is...

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


BALANCE!!!
+1