cRPG

Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: Lars on January 11, 2012, 05:34:11 pm

Title: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Lars on January 11, 2012, 05:34:11 pm
Citizens of the USA: please do the world a favor, vote for RON PAUL, why? He Wants to CLOSE All U.S. Military Bases around the World!!!! I know it's quite an utopian project, but why don't give him a chance?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fOUb9YZYUM  Ron Paul is a wise man, please listen what he said in the video

Ron Paul Quotes-
“I rise to urge the Congress to think twice before thrusting this nation into a war without merit- one fraught with the danger of escalating into something no American will be pleased with.
We have for months now heard plenty of false arithmetic and lame excuses for why we must pursue a preemptive war of aggression against an impoverished third world nation 6000 miles from our shores that doesn’t even possess a navy or air force, on the pretense that it must be done for national security reasons.
“For some reason such an attack makes me feel much less secure, while our country is made more vulnerable.
“We do not know exactly how long this will last. It could be a six-day war, a six-month war, or six years or even longer.” (September 4, 2002)


Check also thins link please http://nashua.patch.com/articles/war-propaganda-hurting-economy   "He aims to cut trillions of dollars in debt by addressing what he sees as major issues in our nation’s foreign policy.
Cutting our spending in conflicts overseas would give the nation a chance to work on reducing the crushing debt that rises by the minute.
He calls for a “more humble policy” that he said was held by The Founding Fathers. This is a policy that he said is not shared by the other candidates, who seem much more willing to go to war.
“I don’t think there is anything wrong with using diplomacy,” said Paul.



Ron Paul was even against the bombing of Serbia  "Serbia has not threatened us nor used any force against any American citizen"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Ha1B37v00   "Illegal, unconstitutional, immoral bombing of Serbia"







Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: okiN on January 11, 2012, 05:47:12 pm
Nah. The guy's a looney tune.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Weren on January 11, 2012, 05:59:23 pm
Then again, every single one of those candidates is.  :|
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on January 11, 2012, 06:48:03 pm
He's not going to nerf cav, so fuck off.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: ManOfWar on January 11, 2012, 08:22:29 pm
Concerning candidates, we are literally stuck with choosing the best of the worse
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 11, 2012, 08:23:13 pm
He's the best candidate no doubt, Obama behind.

All the other guys are complete nutters though, especially the current Republican front runner, geez. Mitt Romney, great little flick about him here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_evS-T-c35M&feature=g-logo&context=G2ccdd82FOAAAAAAAGAA).

In other US news no one knows about: http://www.bloomberg.com/article/2011-12-23/aYoOcZ6NT3wo.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/article/2011-12-23/aYoOcZ6NT3wo.html)
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Konrax on January 11, 2012, 08:34:59 pm
Just watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifJG_oFFDK0

Then decide what you think of Dr. Ron Paul.

DO IT NOW.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Huey Newton on January 11, 2012, 08:47:56 pm
sigh

Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: B3RS3RK on January 11, 2012, 08:48:34 pm
Yes, vote for him you fools.

The Mighty Asian dragon will rise and conquer you.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 11, 2012, 08:54:39 pm
Huey hates freedom :(
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: SixThumbs on January 11, 2012, 09:00:25 pm
Vote for Buddy Roemer, he's not accepting donations over 100 dollars and they didn't even let him come to the presidential debates.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Huey Newton on January 11, 2012, 09:02:57 pm
Huey hates freedom :(


obviously  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 11, 2012, 11:05:48 pm

obviously  :rolleyes:

:wink:

Watch Ron Paul's Speech After New Hampshire Primary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da6irSCvnZY&feature=g-logo&context=G2045d38FOAAAAAAAKAA)
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Ujin on January 12, 2012, 03:51:44 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifJG_oFFDK0



As much as i don't like getting involved in such delicate conversations on the web, here's my 2 cents .

I don't know who this man is sponsored by and what forces stand behind him, but imho, you either play this wild card or the US (and , unfortunately, the rest of the destabilized world that follows) will continue going the direction none of us would probably like.

Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: isatis on January 12, 2012, 03:59:10 am
I would love to get involved in this discussion, but with our prime minister i'll shut up and tears on our country future instead.

(why no more kyoto why?)

(why is our science minister is a creationist why?)
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: SixThumbs on January 12, 2012, 05:11:24 am
Apple iPhones replaced God so we're still pretty much fucked anyway.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 12, 2012, 05:16:26 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifJG_oFFDK0



As much as i don't like getting involved in such delicate conversations on the web, here's my 2 cents .

I don't know who this man is sponsored by and what forces stand behind him, but imho, you either play this wild card or the US (and , unfortunately, the rest of the destabilized world that follows) will continue going the direction none of us would probably like.

Great video. Ron Paul is indeed a courageous man, if the World should be so lucky to have him as the head of the United States I sincerely hope and pray he wont get the Kennedy treatment.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Siiem on January 12, 2012, 06:10:53 am
He won't be elected, he's too reasonable.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Ylca on January 12, 2012, 11:03:40 am
He won't be elected, he's too reasonable.

Yeah sure if you consider reason going to pre WWII style isolationism, dropping trade agreements and hoping someone like, oh, say China doesn't snatch them up instantly is reasonable.

Fellow Americans, you don't want to know what happens when america is no longer a superpower, nor do you want to see what happens when we don't have strong trade. Isolationism is a death sentence in this day and age.

He's an honest guy and makes a good congressman, but i'd never want to see him in the presidency. Positive traits do not outweigh his absolutely ruinous platform.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: okiN on January 12, 2012, 11:22:42 am
I don't get how anyone can take this guy seriously. He's every bit as much a fundamentalist, ideological right-wing nutjob as the rest of them, the difference is that he's much more of an extreme libertarian.

Maybe I'm wrong, but my impression is that you've seen him say a few things that sound good to you and haven't bothered checking up on the rest.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Weren on January 12, 2012, 12:59:48 pm
I don't get how anyone can take this guy seriously. He's every bit as much a fundamentalist, ideological right-wing nutjob as the rest of them, the difference is that he's much more of an extreme libertarian.

Maybe I'm wrong, but my impression is that you've seen him say a few things that sound good to you and haven't bothered checking up on the rest.
This.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Ujin on January 12, 2012, 02:04:28 pm
Maybe I'm wrong, but my impression is that you've seen him say a few things that sound good to you and haven't bothered checking up on the rest.
Isn't that exactly how people voted for Bush Jr. and Obama ?
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: bilwit on January 12, 2012, 02:34:56 pm
Paul is the only non-dress-up-doll who actually knows wtf he's talking about. He's the only logical candidate. That is exactly why he WILL NOT win the election.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: bilwit on January 12, 2012, 02:39:00 pm
I don't get how anyone can take this guy seriously. He's every bit as much a fundamentalist, ideological right-wing nutjob as the rest of them, the difference is that he's much more of an extreme libertarian.

Maybe I'm wrong, but my impression is that you've seen him say a few things that sound good to you and haven't bothered checking up on the rest.

I like how the mainstream media spins that whole "libertarian extremist" thing on him and everyone chews it up. It's pretty comical. He's a true conservative. An old guard republican. Would you call Ronald Reagan a fundamentalist libertarian? Go back a half century and Republicans then would be calling the current Republican agenda "liberal-YMCA." Now because Paul is the only one who stayed true to conservatism as it was he's a "fundamentalist libertarian" LOL.

The federal government has gotten way too bloated and overbearing. We need to bring it back down to the essentials before building it back up.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Konrax on January 12, 2012, 05:17:32 pm
Yeah sure if you consider reason going to pre WWII style isolationism, dropping trade agreements and hoping someone like, oh, say China doesn't snatch them up instantly is reasonable.

Fellow Americans, you don't want to know what happens when america is no longer a superpower, nor do you want to see what happens when we don't have strong trade. Isolationism is a death sentence in this day and age.

He's an honest guy and makes a good congressman, but i'd never want to see him in the presidency. Positive traits do not outweigh his absolutely ruinous platform.

He is all about the free market doing its job, which is exactly the opposite of what you think his economic opinions are all about.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: SixThumbs on January 12, 2012, 06:51:51 pm
I was half-hoping this would be the generation that just said "fuck it" to the elections and somehow decided to elect a leader via youtube, facebook or some other social media site.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 12, 2012, 07:56:25 pm
Mitt Romney dodged the Vietnam draft (he was a "Mormon missionary") but has been photographed protesting FOR the Vietnam draft.  That's the definition of a chickenhawk.  Fuck him, he's a despicable human being.

That being said, most Democrats and Republicans are virtually the same when it comes to fiscal policies.  They are corporate whores who vote against the 99% of the populations interests.  They allow tax loopholes, and they cater to the wealthy. 

The only reason you have such a huge divide among the 99% of the population has to do with the social issues.  But in reality these are just the way the ruling class is able to divide and conquer the majority of the population.

I really dislike some of Ron Paul's social policies (in regards to women's rights especially), but he honestly is the best candidate for the job.  And I like the fact that he says he's personally against women getting abortions, but recognizes that it's not his right to step in and decide what other people can do with their body.  +1 for him.

The American election system is a huge problem.  Until that is fixed, the whole system will remain fucked.  Politicians are forced to make corporations happy to get the corporate money, but they need to dangle the social issues in front of the voters to get the votes they need to get into office.  Not to mention the fact that they have to campaign for about 1/4 of the time they are elected, and instead of staying up to date and very informed on topics, they are more focused on getting re-elected.

And once we fix the election system, we need to fix the pork-barrel spending.  It needs to be one bill, one issue.  You shouldn't be able to tack on millions of dollars for a city park to a health care bill (let alone tack it on in secret).
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Sawbone on January 12, 2012, 08:42:26 pm
The American election system is a huge problem.  Until that is fixed, the whole system will remain fucked.  Politicians are forced to make corporations happy to get the corporate money, but they need to dangle the social issues in front of the voters to get the votes they need to get into office. 

Corporations are people is the big issue here - that and your weird idea to create superpacs that allows anonymous contributions to campaigners.

Regarding Ron Paul, here's a quick quote from an old Disposible Heroes of Hiphopricy song that explains exactly why he will never fly:

It's the perpetuation of the two party system
where image takes precedence over wisdom
Where sound bite politics are served to the fastfood culture
Where straight teeth in your mouth are more important than the words that come out of it

Not a criticism regarding American politics; canadian politics is twice as fucked up. Okay maybe not twice...
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 12, 2012, 08:48:24 pm
I posted this on facebook earlier this morning (before I realized there was a thread on the forums about it):

Quote
Bernie Sanders: "The American people want action. They want their government to start representing the 99 percent, not just the top 1 percent". This applies to Democrats and Republicans alike. Start voting for our collective interests and stop being distracted by all these "pet" social issues (that only allow the politicians to divide and conquer the 99%). United we stand, divided we fall.


I signed a petition by Bernie Sanders to repeal that retarded ass court ruling that made it so that corporations are treated the same as people.  I fully expect a Wal-Mart candidate within the next year or two if this doesn't change.  Bribery is illegal in America, but when it comes to elections it's the norm to LEGALLY grease the pockets of politicians.  I'm sure that people donating to your cause (directly or indirectly) has no effect on how you treat those people/companies/industries once elected.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 12, 2012, 09:03:31 pm
A lot of people eat into all the misinformation and various "attack-campaigns", already a few select people here are preaching those misinformed messages.
There are whole organizations dedicated to spreading misinformation, to steer votes in one direction in online polls, to show support for specific cases or people at social media sites. This is a fact.

Stop listening to who you think is the best candidate, who you think is aligned with your beliefs and what not, and do the actual research for the truth that you so think you speak of.

Look at what the different politicians have said, publicly, which means there's a video as documentation, then check official government websites for what they voted on the various legislation, you will see a clear pattern, even someone as Obama, who I would have as my second selection after Ron Paul - no other republican at least - have signed and voted for legislation that makes no sense what so ever for the common man and freedom, showing a pattern of saying one thing but doing another, not a relative new discovery in the political world of course. This also happens in the rest of the World, the US is no different, the only other difference is that a lot of countries are so small that it is a much harder task to corrupt them (look at Countries who have nullified EU legislation).

If you want to find the real gems within politics the people who actually speak the truth and have the actual facts, you got to dig really deep down - for example Obama takes money for his campaign from loads of major International power players, Ron Paul does not, and frankly he is the only one that is ranking in votes at the moment who isn't bought and paid for by special interest - The only other candidates who aren't bought for are those you will never hear about unless you specifically check tons of Alternative and Local media, because these candidates have not taken special interest money.



Also; Torture and the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_and_the_United_States) - Obama did not end this nor is he working towards ending it. Ron Paul WILL.

Obama encouraged Wall Street corruption by hiring the exact same corrupt people who were also behind Bush and he have done nothing to investigate why and what happened during the financial crisis because it would put a ton of high level Wall Street and Government execs in jail - even though it is publicly out there already: WATCH INSIDE JOB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_Job_%28film%29) which won an Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature. Ron Paul WILL end this corruption.



Anyone voting for Mitt or the other Republicans need to literally wake the fuck up and watch something else than Fox News (and US MSM in general) - There IS one beacon of hope on Fox though, Judge Andrew Napolitano and his segment.

Naturally everyone always think they're some divine entity who is right at all accounts, and those who do not see it are wrong :wink:.



"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once its realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Ron Paul
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Ylca on January 12, 2012, 09:06:45 pm
He is all about the free market doing its job, which is exactly the opposite of what you think his economic opinions are all about.

Yeah, the Rockefeller era was superb for the average joe.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Knute on January 12, 2012, 09:34:04 pm
I've seen a few clips where Ron Paul said we should have never fought the civil war, because slavery would have gone away on it's own and it would have been more cost effective for the government to buy all the slaves(?) instead of fighting a civil war for 4 years. 

He's also spoken out against the 1964 Civil Rights Act (which legally forced the South to end racial segregation in schools/workplaces/on buses etc) because it "reduced individual liberty".  That fact that he's from the South himself and says stuff like this...I dunno.  I don't think he's racist, but statements like that are like a dog whistle for people with traitor flag bumper stickers. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbOE4Ip7In0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbOE4Ip7In0)
Talking about the civil war

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvbJBHhqftc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvbJBHhqftc)
Talking about civil rights act
 
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Stabby_Dave on January 12, 2012, 09:38:15 pm
Jon Huntsman seems like a Republican that wouldnt be the worst thing to happen to the world. Hoping that either him or Ron Paul get elected is the best thing that can come out of this election.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Konrax on January 12, 2012, 09:49:54 pm
Yeah, the Rockefeller era was superb for the average joe.

Yeah because his actions were clearly in line with what his promises were.

You have a better candidate to point too?
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 12, 2012, 10:02:22 pm
No doubt slavery would have been abolished anyway because every human being can see it as wrong. If the South would not have been defeated no doubt they would have gone rid of it later anyway - without the bloodshed - due to pressure from countries outside or simply as to how the World was evolving. Those who think he is speaking FOR slavery should pick up a proper History Book just once (not the crap you were taught in grade/high school).

It is hard to explain these very lengthy subjects in short interviews with hosts who are hostile towards you plus on MSM programs with clear directives.

Now this is a great case though of how everything you say and do can be flipped around, anyone with half a brain can find a good argument to promote something no matter what subject, and it will always make reason to some. Exactly as how Opinion Polls are made to reflect whatever opinion those who paid for the poll want.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: okiN on January 12, 2012, 10:43:23 pm
And I like the fact that he says he's personally against women getting abortions, but recognizes that it's not his right to step in and decide what other people can do with their body.  +1 for him.

You know, that's really interesting, because when I checked his campaign website, it told me this:

Quote from: CrazyCracka420
As a physician, Ron Paul consistently put his beliefs into practice and saved lives by helping women seek options other than abortion, including adoption.  And as President, Ron Paul will continue to fight for the same pro-life solutions he has upheld in Congress, including:

* Immediately saving lives by effectively repealing Roe v. Wade and preventing activist judges from interfering with state decisions on life by removing abortion from federal court jurisdiction through legislation modeled after his “We the People Act.”

* Defining life as beginning at conception by passing a “Sanctity of Life Act.”

Said website, by the way, is where I got most of my information about his views and policies (along with debates and interviews), and I can tell you that it wouldn't cross my mind for a second to vote for him. The guy's a fruit loop.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 12, 2012, 10:49:03 pm
You know, that's really interesting, because when I checked his campaign website, it told me this:

Said website, by the way, is where I got most of my information about his views and policies (along with debates and interviews), and I can tell you that it wouldn't cross my mind for a second to vote for him. The guy's a fruit loop.

Well then I fail.  I could have sworn he was against abortion personally (like he's personally against drug use) but felt people should be able to do what they wanted to their bodies as long as it didn't infringe on someone else's civil liberties.

Apparently I was wrong, if he is going to impose his views on other people's bodies, he can just fuck right off.  I'll keep waiting for a real election process instead of voting for Ruling class A or Ruling class B.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on January 12, 2012, 10:58:54 pm
Yeah. He's pro-life. And yes, if I had to choose out of the options. I'd probably go for Huntsman. Mainly because of this:

"Huntsman professes a firm belief in science, rejecting the notion that faith and evolution are mutually exclusive. In response to Rick Perry's creationist world view,[117] Huntsman warned that the Republicans should not become the "anti-science" party, and stated: "To be clear. I believe in evolution and trust scientists on global warming. Call me crazy.""

And compared to the others, except Ron Paul he's fairly liberal, although he's pro-life aswell.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 12, 2012, 11:05:53 pm
I'm pro-life too.  I think most people are pro-life. But I think my personal view shouldn't outweigh the person who's making the decision.  That's the difference between people who identify themselves as pro-life, as opposed to pro-choice.  I'd be labeled pro-choice, but I'm literally pro-life.


I don't see a lot of people who are pro-abortion...although there are a few out there who think that abortions are good because it's slowing the overgrowth of humans on the planet (aka the planet can't sustain the growth of humans at it's current rate). 

I guess we will continue to be divided and conquered.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Angantyr on January 13, 2012, 02:31:46 am
His libertarianism aside (which is a whole discussion in itself) there's no doubt that Ron Paul is the only high-profile Western politician I know of who speaks directly and honestly about realpolitik/power politics to the voters as if they were actually a real cognitive part of the electoral process and whom so openly embraces the always unpopular but immensively important self-scutiny of the 'blessed homeland'. His perspective on issues such as US foreign policy, domestic corruption, human rights and adherence to international law, is a rare glimpse of sense and morality rarely, if ever, seen so unmarred by hypocracy in modern politics. And issues that with the current World order affects us all.

That his well-founded (and easily fact checked within any given law text, historical record etc.) arguments is an anomaly on the political scene and that a man such as he will never be president is, despite massive popular support which even Fox can't downplay entirely however much they try (see for example the 2011 Republican Presidential Debate), a testimony to the sad state of Western democracy.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 13, 2012, 04:13:07 am
Indeed Argantyr, to even think that he supports Racism/Slavery is the most blatant display of ignorance and a complete disregard for factual History. I mean would anyone for a moment think that he would be in favor of those things? Not even those who ARE IN favor of it would articulate it to the World in this manner, just stop and think for a second here, to believe in this notion is complete delusion and detachment from reality.

Yes, the guy who is speaking for freedom, who foresaw all the atrocities going on globally 10 years in advance, the man who openly speaks about everything, a doctor, is FOR slavery. Where do anyone get the audacity to even try spreading this false notion about Ron Paul when it is so obviously false, yet people fall for it so easily. If anything it would stick (and be true) to some of the other Republican candidates who people so highly praise, anyone who've been following the election just a tiny bit should have seen the whole 'Hunting Hut' scandal.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Gomer on January 13, 2012, 04:47:00 am
I aint voting for him or the nig.... Never mind. Honestly he is a Democrat in Republican body. A real republican won't vote for him. Please don't. He is a bad  candidate please we don't need another Bush tainting are record.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kabookie on January 13, 2012, 04:59:29 am
Damned politicians!  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Ylca on January 13, 2012, 10:39:58 am
I'm pro-life too.  I think most people are pro-life. But I think my personal view shouldn't outweigh the person who's making the decision.  That's the difference between people who identify themselves as pro-life, as opposed to pro-choice.  I'd be labeled pro-choice, but I'm literally pro-life.


I don't see a lot of people who are pro-abortion...although there are a few out there who think that abortions are good because it's slowing the overgrowth of humans on the planet (aka the planet can't sustain the growth of humans at it's current rate). 

I guess we will continue to be divided and conquered.

I'd say most people are pro-choice given the number of pro-lifers that are "pro-life" until they need, or immediately after their abortion.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Gomer on January 13, 2012, 04:08:14 pm
Vote John Stewart!
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 13, 2012, 05:48:21 pm
Ron Paul's philosophy belongs about 50-100 years in the past. I like the guy, he's probably one of the few principled politicians running for office, he has a strong core of values that he relies on. I just don't agree with practically any of them.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 13, 2012, 05:50:43 pm
I aint voting for him or the nig.... Never mind. Honestly he is a Democrat in Republican body. A real republican won't vote for him. Please don't. He is a bad  candidate please we don't need another Bush tainting are record.

Who, in your opininion, represents the "Republican" ideal best out of all the candidates running for office?
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on January 13, 2012, 07:11:50 pm
bah, they will vote for whoever media tells them to, and for sure media will not try to convince people to vote for Ron Paul

and two vids of him:

his predictions
http://youtu.be/ifJG_oFFDK0 (http://youtu.be/ifJG_oFFDK0)

like a boss moment ;p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QJMM_btpmM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QJMM_btpmM)
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Gomer on January 13, 2012, 08:48:38 pm
Who, in your opininion, represents the "Republican" ideal best out of all the candidates running for office?
I don't like are pool of candidates to be honest. I would suggest a Non Party runner such as John Stewart but as we all know the parties have a monopoly on are government.

Rate On Parties (even though I am republican):

Our country was founded on a system to route out monopoly. It is hypocritical due to the fact that the two party system comes up with ideals that THEY WANT and whomever comes up with the majority wins. The average head of these parties know nothing of regular american life rather they live in the HIGH UPPER CLASS area. They do not always fairly represent the people. But the issue that bugs me the most is this country was founded on the premise of a weak President and a STRONG CONGRESS. The part bugging me is the party system (Washington our father HATED) is very hypocritical. It allows for select party leaders to have MASSIVE INFLUENCE on our country whilst possibly being bribed or corrupted and we don't even know. They are the shadow figure  head of our country. We have a Democratic monopoly. I picked the Republican party due to it being the lesser of two evils.

Understand my drift? If not I will elaborate.

I support the non-party movement because it is a person using HIS ideas that fit the country not the ideas of others and without the ties of party holding him back. It will never happen though. I am not a crazy hippy talking about "The Man" but I believe that the parties influence and money will trump the ability of any good candidate to run non-party
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: iron_mat on January 13, 2012, 11:50:28 pm
Ron paul doesn't speak chinese OR play music OR have hot daughter.

Jon Huntsman 2012
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Gomer on January 13, 2012, 11:58:25 pm
Ron paul doesn't speak chinese OR play music OR have hot daughter.

Jon Huntsman 2012
John Stewart or die motherfucker
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: iron_mat on January 14, 2012, 12:06:35 am
Jon stewart is like 4 feet tall... You stupid, have you ever heard of a midget bein president? me no.. duh
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Gomer on January 14, 2012, 12:10:39 am
Jon stewart is like 4 feet tall... You stupid, have you ever heard of a midget bein president? me no.. duh

He will be like Clinton but with more crazy positions
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Ujin on January 14, 2012, 12:43:22 am
This video,in my opinion , just sums up the US  foreign policy that has been goig on for the last few decades or so : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4PgpbQfxgo&feature=related





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zyo10lusCY&feature=relmfu
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: bilwit on January 14, 2012, 09:49:20 am
I've seen a few clips where Ron Paul said we should have never fought the civil war, because slavery would have gone away on it's own and it would have been more cost effective for the government to buy all the slaves(?) instead of fighting a civil war for 4 years. 

He's also spoken out against the 1964 Civil Rights Act (which legally forced the South to end racial segregation in schools/workplaces/on buses etc) because it "reduced individual liberty".  That fact that he's from the South himself and says stuff like this...I dunno.  I don't think he's racist, but statements like that are like a dog whistle for people with traitor flag bumper stickers. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbOE4Ip7In0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbOE4Ip7In0)
Talking about the civil war

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvbJBHhqftc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvbJBHhqftc)
Talking about civil rights act

LOL. This is the media talking without context. He was against the Civil War because forcing states to stay in the union was UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Him being against it has nothing to do with slavery -- much as the war really wasn't about slavery either until after-the-fact. If the states voluntarily joined the union, then they should have been allowed to voluntarily leave the union. He's 100% about the constitution, preserving personal freedom and state rights. Same thing with the Civil Rights Act -- not because he's AGAINST racial freedom, but he's against the shit that promoted AFFIRMATIVE ACTION because it's inherently (and ironically) racist.

The funny thing about his whole stance on abortion and drug abolition -- it really DOES NOT MATTER if you agree or not. If he gets his way, the STATES will decide those policies for themselves, not the President/not the federal government at all.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Ylca on January 14, 2012, 10:37:23 am
"preserving personal freedom and state rights."

Let me tell you all about Jim Crow, state's rights, and "personal freedom". Well, i guess the back of the bus was free. Sometimes.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Lars on January 14, 2012, 10:54:37 am
(click to show/hide)



Seriously, i think Ron Paul is the complete opposite of what a racist is supposed to be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2z2LQMx9KY 2 minutes video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3EADdr-5AY  another video, don't be fooled by the title, it's just to drag people attention

Edit*** i found this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4&feature=youtu.be , if you care  to watch it , then tell me how can Ron Paul be considered racist.      IMO the medias are trying to discredit Ron Paul, because he proposes  something different from all the other politicians
 






Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 14, 2012, 11:23:56 am
http://www.ronpaul.com/who-is-ron-paul/ (http://www.ronpaul.com/who-is-ron-paul/)
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on January 14, 2012, 01:00:39 pm
Be happy with the bipartite logic, americans. Here in Belgium , we have two electoral zones, each one with roughly 4 big parties. Which means that any government is an alliance between usually at least 4 parties. Given that the differences in votes between parties are not enormous, the elections and the votes don't mean much. The governments are formed through inter-party deliberations (that can take very long, hence why we have the world record of the longest time without an actual government) and due to the abundancy of parties, even the clear winner of the elections can be cast aside of the government. The most recent event is that the NVA, winner of the elections in Flanders, isn't part of the government. I'm personally happy with this particular event but that's not very healthy. It makes the whole process seem like based on a compromise (with all the electoral logic you can think of but that's fine) between parties rather than the vote itself.

Fuck democracy. There's all the people that have the required intelligence, maturity and information to vote, and there's all the people that do not. PR, demagogy, fantasy platforms and bullshit speeches wouldn't work in the first place if the people that fall for it didn't vote. The election systems of many countries also need a lot of tinkering. Both on the law aspect and in the mentality/traditions (negative campaigns, ad hominem...).

I'll be the first Internet Activist For Stochocracy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demarchy)

That's right. No vote, no elections (no wasted billions). Just a few guard laws to avoid choosing someone not fit for the job, and then bam. Each state function gets a randomly chosen manager/minister (whatever). You are sure never to be chosen again, and you can't do anything about it. Personal interest conflicts can be avoided by evaluating the value and then integrating the whole property of the person into the state property, then giving the same value back (in money) when the person's mandate is over. Of course this is all too simple. What if the person is just doing nothing/going rambo, etc. Well there are ways to counter that (like a specific role that could fire others, but could only do it once and then be dismissed...), and I let anyone interested devising a working stochocratic system for themselves :)


Ofc. I'm only half-serious about this :lol:


http://www.ronpaul.com/who-is-ron-paul/ (http://www.ronpaul.com/who-is-ron-paul/)

One question. Is there a way to deactivate the music and sounds effects in the videos ? That's exactly the kind of things I hate about PR. I just want to hear what they say, not the american ad music -_-
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Leshma on January 14, 2012, 01:39:29 pm
Don't believe anything Ujin says. He's a Russian spy :D
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on January 14, 2012, 01:55:36 pm
Don't believe anything Ujin says. He's a Russian spy :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt-FyuuWlWQ  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Ujin on January 14, 2012, 02:27:14 pm
Don't believe anything Ujin says. He's a Russian spy :D

GODDAMIT !What blew  up my cover ?? :mad:
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Reinhardt on January 14, 2012, 05:53:30 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFXXAuDK1Ao
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: bilwit on January 14, 2012, 07:24:25 pm
"preserving personal freedom and state rights."

Let me tell you all about Jim Crow, state's rights, and "personal freedom". Well, i guess the back of the bus was free. Sometimes.

And if you knew anything about what Ron Paul stands for then you'd know that he's explicitly said that he was all for abolishing Jim Crow laws but the other baggage that came with the Civil Rights Act of 1964 that went against the Constitution did not justify his vote.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Banok on January 14, 2012, 09:13:16 pm
I dont follow news let alone american pollitics so I dont know who is he, but surely he cant become president. he seems WAY too intelligent.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Darkkarma on January 14, 2012, 09:26:24 pm
Yeah sure if you consider reason going to pre WWII style isolationism, dropping trade agreements and hoping someone like, oh, say China doesn't snatch them up instantly is reasonable.

Fellow Americans, you don't want to know what happens when america is no longer a superpower, nor do you want to see what happens when we don't have strong trade. Isolationism is a death sentence in this day and age.

He's an honest guy and makes a good congressman, but i'd never want to see him in the presidency. Positive traits do not outweigh his absolutely ruinous platform.

+1, Ylca. And for those of you who want to say that he doesn't preach isolationism but non intervention, they are effectively the same thing.


Ron Paul is a genuinely nice guy and I don't doubt that for a minute.
However, that says nothing for his ridiculous policies.

As far as why he believes that being non interventionism is a good idea and not dangerous, in a 1997 interview he said this, "There's nobody in this world that could possibly attack us today... we could defend this country with a few good submarines. If anybody dared touch us we could wipe any country off of the face of the earth within hours."

Ladies and gentlemen, our ace in the hole is some diluted,erroneous logic that would have been at best questionable a century ago.


His Idea of airport security is allowing pilots to carry guns of their own.. Not even making this up; he thinks that terrorists would be much less likely to try and attempt to hijack a plane if the pilots can "shoot back".

Pretty much any any federal program out there he wants abolished. "Paul would substantially reduce the government's role in individual lives and in the functions of foreign and domestic states; he says Republicans have lost their commitment to limited government and have become the party of big government. He would eliminate many federal government agencies, such as the U.S. Department of Education, the U.S. Department of Energy, the U.S. Department of Commerce,the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, the Department of Homeland Security, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), the Interstate Commerce Commission and the Internal Revenue Service, calling them "unnecessary bureaucracies".)

Despite being so against all the spending that is going on in the nation, Ron Paul actually requested 400 million dollars in ear marks back in 2007 regarding bills he himself voted no against. Paul's office says those requests include $8 million for the marketing of wild American shrimp and $2.3 million to pay for research into shrimp fishing and renovating a fucking movie theater. What was Paul's response though? "In an already flawed system, earmarks can at least allow residents of Congressional districts to have a greater role in allocating federal funds - their tax dollars – than if the money is allocated behind locked doors by bureaucrats" How self righteous can you get?

He thinks that removing alot of the policies and programs America has in place right now cost too much money and therefore should be removed, when in reality removing alot of these programs froma  society that has become dependent on many of them for nearly half a century would have such a heavy economic impact on the country that it would in fact send the US economy into an even greater downward spiral than the one experienced in late 2007/early 2008

I could go on dude, most of his policies are nuttier than candybar shit, sometimes people really do mistake crazy like a fox for just plain crazy. Most libertarians won't even touch Ron Paul with a ten foot pole. Food for thought.


Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Angantyr on January 15, 2012, 01:42:12 am
Please be mindful to differentiate between trade and a permanent military presence across most of the globe, conflicting with international law under a nation's right to self-determination. Real trade is not conducted at gun point - a robbery is.

If our media's regularly contrived public outrages for the acquisition of some ressources or otherwise geopolitically important region was not hypocracy we should fall to military intervention only to secure the freedom of choice for the host country, allowing them to trade with whom is most profitable to them instead of imposing trade restrictions entirely in our (attacking nations and their corporations) favour the countries 'we' (US and allies) invade. That is talking of trade only of course, international law is ideally the only basis on which war should be waged, if at all.

As to your comment about the power of America's nuclear threat; it was megadeath and weapons of mass destruction and not tank battalions that limited U.S - Russian rivalry to proxy wars, and also the reason why no country on Earth would dare openly attack a Nato member today, it all boils down to extermination or mutual extermination. Ground troops serve another purpose, entirely.

But if you're referring to the current 'War on Terror' I can assure you that is not won by 'boots on the ground', rather it is excalated (read for example your own CIA's analysis on this). Big Business is free to exploit the local population, however, to the benefit of the 1%, while the population at home (the 99%) has to pay for the show - in money suffering the military industry's monstrous upkeep including private contractor reconstruction profiteering, and in blood generations of young men and women, poor, idealistic or just 'doing their jobs'.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on January 15, 2012, 02:23:26 am
His Idea of airport security is allowing pilots to carry guns of their own.. Not even making this up; he thinks that terrorists would be much less likely to try and attempt to hijack a plane if the pilots can "shoot back".

How is this ridiculous?
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: isatis on January 15, 2012, 03:10:14 am
How is this ridiculous?

ridiculous 'cause the pilot would never shoot back: he would lie death after the first shot

terrorist are well trainend ppl you know!
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 15, 2012, 03:16:37 am
The 9/11 hijackers had like little knives and shit. If the pilots had had guns, chances are it wouldn't have happened. We trust pilots to fly gigantic metal aircraft where they have the responsability for hundreds of lives, I don't think it's that much of a crazy idea to suggest they should be able to defend themselves from things like that.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Gomer on January 15, 2012, 03:23:04 am
The 9/11 hijackers had like little knives and shit. If the pilots had had guns, chances are it wouldn't have happened. We trust pilots to fly gigantic metal aircraft where they have the responsability for hundreds of lives, I don't think it's that much of a crazy idea to suggest they should be able to defend themselves from things like that.
I say we rent Chuck Norris to guard the sky's.... No Rag Head will EVER FLY
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Ylca on January 15, 2012, 12:03:16 pm
How is this ridiculous?

Well for starters because it means that every pilot would, in addition to having hundreds of thousands of hours training for their craft, would also have to be ace marksmen. I don't mean proficient, or "goes to the range once a month" i mean constant shooting drills. A plane is an incredibly enclosed space, one stray bullet is a dead passenger. I'm not sure of the overlap between qualified pilots and superb shots, but i can't imagine that it would be very high. Beyond that the pilot needs to be solely concerned with flying the plane- if a gun is needed in-flight it should be handled by a third party planted in the passengers.

Not that the concept of an airplane getting highjacked is much of a valid scenario these days. For all the huff and blunder about terrorism, there is next to none seen in america in years. I'd also like to point out that 2 teenagers with guns, and a crazy man at a university (Virginia Tech) have caused more terror than these supposed specially trained warriors have in recent memory. That's right, American citizens are better at terrorism against ourselves than any of our enemies so far.

Terrorism in america is a joke used to crack down liberties and militarize police forces.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: okiN on January 15, 2012, 12:26:36 pm
I'd also like to point out that 2 teenagers with guns, and a crazy man at a university (Virginia Tech) have caused more terror than these supposed specially trained warriors have in recent memory. That's right, American citizens are better at terrorism against ourselves than any of our enemies so far.

Don't worry, Ron Paul knows the solution to that, too, and it's to have a gun in every home. Preferably several, including assault rifles.

Quote
With our gun rights under constant attack from our own government and the anti-gun United Nations, as well as the threat of rising crime due to our country’s economic woes, Congressman Paul believes it has never been more important that our President be 100% committed to defending our God-given right to keep and bear arms.

I'm with ya, Ronnie! You show those bleeding hearts what's what!
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on January 15, 2012, 12:36:37 pm
Well for starters because it means that every pilot would, in addition to having hundreds of thousands of hours training for their craft, would also have to be ace marksmen. I don't mean proficient, or "goes to the range once a month" i mean constant shooting drills. A plane is an incredibly enclosed space, one stray bullet is a dead passenger. I'm not sure of the overlap between qualified pilots and superb shots, but i can't imagine that it would be very high. Beyond that the pilot needs to be solely concerned with flying the plane- if a gun is needed in-flight it should be handled by a third party planted in the passengers.

Not really. Just arming the pilots doesn't mean their job description would change. They wouldn't be replacing the Delta Force. But they'd be able to defend themselves in the cockpit, which'd give them a better chance of remaining in control of the plane.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Darkkarma on January 15, 2012, 12:47:37 pm
How is this ridiculous?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_Farouk_Abdulmutallab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_Farouk_Abdulmutallab)

Im sure this guy wouldn't have even thought of suicide bombing inside of that plane had pilots held the ability to shoot at him. Let me explain a little further since I basically paraphrased very poorly and didn't tell the rest. He wants to dismantle the TSA entirely and remove all of it's safety regulations and this "pilots with guns" argument was his only known response up until recently. The TSA is arguably a monster of a bureaucratic fuck up, but giving pilots the right to shoot back would do nothing in the way of ensuring safety upon airlines. He at least has tried to clean such a stance up recently by endorsing the idea of privatizing airport security(which  wouldn't even get rid of the TSA entirely) but that's another kettle of fish entirely. I mean, if it's one thing we are known for here in the states, it's the integrity of our major corporate enterprises!
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on January 15, 2012, 12:53:21 pm
Yeah, dismantling the TSA (which would be good, but only if another similar, less fucked up organization took its place) and giving pilots guns instead would be retarded. I think it's a good idea, but just as an added security measure, not as the only security measure.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Leshma on January 15, 2012, 12:53:45 pm
Don't worry, Ron Paul knows the solution to that, too, and it's to have a gun in every home. Preferably several, including assault rifles.

Isn't that already the case? I always believed that everyone in America has a gun or two.

Off-topic: Fellow 'mericans, citizens of ze glorious state of Texas, why you pay no taxes when buying crap on Amazon?
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: okiN on January 15, 2012, 12:56:14 pm
Isn't that already the case? I always believed that everyone in America has a gun or two.

No, the situation is disastrous, there's still some legislation in place!
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Leshma on January 15, 2012, 01:16:55 pm
For all the huff and blunder about terrorism, there is next to none seen in america in years.

That's because you guys invented a loophole which allows you to use preventive measures against terrorists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targeted_killing).

Yeah, I agree most of those terrorists USA killed deserved it.

But in most countries it's a crime and morally unacceptable.

Shooting a guy and mortally wounding him when he is attempting to kill someone is totally right thing to do. Targeted killing with ballistic projectiles at any given time is not.

Your president Obama is a cold-blooded killer just like those terrorists who killed thousands of people.

Hopefully there will be the day when he and some of your former presidents will be held responsible for what they had done.

I'm pretty sure that day will happen sooner or later.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on January 15, 2012, 01:25:16 pm
Terrorism in america is a joke used to crack down liberties and militarize police forces.

I've seen this in GTA 4, it got to be true. Now seriously, at some point it is. In the US, but also in Europe. Al-quaida -like Terrorism is an interesting geopolitic event because most of the trauma happened due to changes in regulations and the media, not the actual bombings/plane hijacks. Even more interestingly, the reactions that ensued were for the biggest part completely inapropriate. Based on a precautionary dogma instead of realistic estimates of what the terrorist groups actually had the resources to do. Terrible nightmares are still nightmares. The war on terror was (is ?) mostly nightmare-fueled.


IMO the best thing we could do now to prevent any plane hijack would be either :

- Completely automate the plane controls. You set the landing airport from somewhere impossible to reach during the flight, or only through seriously secured wireless connections.
- Remote human pilot. A pilot is in the start airport for the take-off and another in the end airport for the landing. Securing the connection and the place in the airport is easier than securing the plane. Would also improve the landing/take-off security because pilots would be used to their airport (but would need training for multiple planes)
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Leshma on January 15, 2012, 01:29:40 pm
I shouldn't write my previous post. Right now I'm genuinely scared.

Who knows, maybe US Government has some old drone laying somewhere collecting dust, perfect for disposing a little ol' me, big mouthed guy on some god forbidden forums who dares to speak against ze mighty America and question their moral values.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 15, 2012, 03:25:07 pm
If you're genuinely scared because you posted something criticizing the US on the internet you are far dumber and dramatic than I already assumed you were. There's tons of stuff to criticize about the American government, but their efforts at censorship and propaganda are usually far subtler than some Soviet like iron fisted violence.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Banok on January 15, 2012, 06:40:08 pm
I wasnt under the impression any american had the sense to be anti guns, surely all the candidates are pro guns. its like their religion or something.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Reinhardt on January 15, 2012, 06:41:38 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFXXAuDK1Ao


I feel it didn't get enough attention last time. It's hilarious. Watch it.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Angantyr on January 15, 2012, 07:59:17 pm
Don't worry, Ron Paul knows the solution to that, too, and it's to have a gun in every home. Preferably several, including assault rifles.

I'm with ya, Ronnie! You show those bleeding hearts what's what!
Yes, Ron Paul is probably wrong in saying that this would accomplish anything but more sad mass-murders, like the ones we have already seen too many of in US history (certainly compared to Europe). Even minor incidents can turn deadly very quickly when everyone is carrying firearms (I can assure you that several of my friends would not be alive today if we didn't mostly fight unarmed here in Denmark), but we have to remember that if you say A in these matters you also have to say B, and Ron Paul is for nearly full individual freedom. The thought is good, but something tells me it looks better on paper, even if no one wants a babysitter government.

And the old libertarian thought that this threat of armed rebellion somehow enables the people to be free of government tyranny obviously forgets to take into account how modern war is waged; if the army turned on the people it would be nothing but an immense slaughter (akin to the false premise of 'our' recent terror bombing of Lybia) , we're talking tactical nukes, jets, destroyers and artillery.

Edit:
Also, in regards to the Civil War; slavery was not the main issue here, it was only a means for powerful men in the North to subdue powerful men in the South (whose wealth largely relied on slavery). And yes, of course it would have been abolished without a war, most of the rest of the World had already done so without any bloodshed whatsoever (same could be said about a few European democratic revolutions against their respective monarchies).

Not that slavery has been completely abolished even today, looking at the number of blacks imprisoned in the US (see below) or the average living conditions in black and latino ghettos. Working firebranded in the cotton field or working in a privately owned prison or working three jobs with no minimum wage limit doesn't seem that different to me. Nature versus nurture. And that is not even taking into account the modern slavery conducted by our corporations abroad.

Quote
49% of prison inmates nationally are African American, compared to their 13% share of the
overall population.
1
• Nearly one in three (32%) black males in the age group 20-29 is under some form of criminal
justice supervision on any given day -- either in prison or jail, or on probation or parole.
2
• As of 1995, one in fourteen (7%) adult black males was incarcerated in prison or jail on any
given day, representing a doubling of this rate from 1985.  The 1995 figure for white males
was 1%.
• A black male born in 1991 has a 29% chance of spending time in prison at some point in his
life.  The figure for white males is 4%, and for Hispanics, 16%
Source: http://www.sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/rd_crisisoftheyoung.pdf
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Konrax on January 15, 2012, 08:26:40 pm
Yes, Ron Paul is probably wrong in saying that this would accomplish anything but more sad mass-murders, like the ones we have already seen too many of in US history (certainly compared to Europe). Even minor incidents can turn deadly very quickly when everyone is carrying firearms (I can assure you that several of my friends would not be alive today if we didn't mostly fight unarmed here in Denmark), but we have to remember that if you say A in these matters you also have to say B, and Ron Paul is for nearly full individual freedom. The thought is good, but something tells me it looks better on paper, even if no one wants a babysitter government.

And the old libertarian thought that this threat of armed rebellion somehow enables the people to be free of government tyranny obviously forgets to take into account how modern war is waged; if the army turned on the people it would be nothing but an immense slaughter (akin to the false premise of 'our' recent terror bombing of Lybia) , we're talking tactical nukes, jets, destroyers and artillery.

Edit:
Also, in regards to the Civil War; slavery was not the main issue here, it was only a means for powerful men in the North to subdue powerful men in the South (whose wealth largely relied on slavery). And yes, of course it would have been abolished without a war, most of the rest of the World had already done so without any bloodshed whatsoever (same could be said about a few European democratic revolutions against their respective monarchies).

Not that slavery has been completely abolished even today, looking at the number of blacks imprisoned in the US (about 25% of all male blacks have been imprisoned at least once, and often more, if I remember my numbers right) or the average living conditions in black and latino ghettos. Working firebranded in the cotton field or working in a privately owned prison or working three jobs with no minimum wage limit doesn't seem that different to me. Nature versus nurture. And that is not even taking into account the modern slavery conducted by our corporations abroad.

Norway has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

Everyone in Norway carries a gun and has mandatory military training.

So basically if you pull a gun on someone for what ever reason, that person will pull a gun, plus every other bystander will pull a gun out too, and is trained how to use it.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Angantyr on January 15, 2012, 08:37:56 pm
The differences in culture, and gun culture, is vast. Also, in Norway it is mostly hunting rifles locked away at home, not guns carried around for personal protection (or with the intent of crime for that sake).

There's been several social studies (I can find sources if you want them, have better things to do right now) conducted which shows the primus motor for crime rates, especially violent crime, is inequality. Norway is one of the most equal countries in the World and the US is one of the more unequal.

But the argument that guns does not necessarily mean a lot more homicide is valid, of course.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on January 15, 2012, 08:55:17 pm
Norway has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

Everyone in Norway carries a gun and has mandatory military training.

So basically if you pull a gun on someone for what ever reason, that person will pull a gun, plus every other bystander will pull a gun out too, and is trained how to use it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership

Norway is #11. Finland, where I live, is #8. And I can assure you that certainly not "everyone" carries a gun. In fact, most people don't own guns and certainly don't carry them around.

From a wiki article on Norway's gun politics:

"The owner must always have a good reason to bring the weapon to a public place. Such reasons include transportation to a range or hunting area, transportation for repairs, or for maintenance and hobby activities.
During transportation, the weapon must be empty and concealed, but not worn on the body, and under the constant supervision of the owner. This applies equally to replicas, air guns and decommissioned firearms."

So basically the same as Finland in that regard as well.

Do you live in Norway? Because judging by everything you don't, if you think everyone in Norway is carrying and will pull out a gun if someone else does.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Christo on January 15, 2012, 09:00:30 pm
Norway has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

Everyone in Norway carries a gun and has mandatory military training.

So basically if you pull a gun on someone for what ever reason, that person will pull a gun, plus every other bystander will pull a gun out too, and is trained how to use it.

So that's why one sick Norwegian called Breivik easily killed 77 innocent people, right?

I think not.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Angantyr on January 15, 2012, 09:04:01 pm
Already posted this in the Scandi subforum but it fits in here perfectly:

Why Norway isn't a democracy according to Fox News
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EX3km583Dw&list=FLck2ToW6_zytMkNacEfu4VQ&index=4&feature=plpp_video
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Christo on January 15, 2012, 09:12:57 pm
Why Norway isn't a democracy according to Fox News

Fox News,  :lol:

Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Angantyr on January 15, 2012, 09:13:43 pm
 :lol:
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Leshma on January 15, 2012, 09:58:19 pm
Already posted this in the Scandi subforum but it fits in here perfectly:

Why Norway isn't a democracy according to Fox News
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EX3km583Dw&list=FLck2ToW6_zytMkNacEfu4VQ&index=4&feature=plpp_video

Of course it can't be democracy, it's a socialist country.

According to 'mericans, only countries who fully adopt capitalism are democratic countries lols

For instance, Yugoslavia was a lot better country than this pos of a country I'm living in today. But the problem with Yugoslavia was socialism and strong connections with USSR which in typical American mind screams communism which is invented by satan etc.

(click to show/hide)

And they still think that, even in this age where the biggest and fastest growing world economy and manufacturer of almost everything, China, is a communist country.

Liberal capitalism in my country means corruption and stealing from common people. Most serbian politicians are puppets who were trained in some western country to steal as much as they can from the people who elected them. Fuck that.

Edit: I mean just look how twisted their government is. Names of their military interventions in the past 20 years:

Operation Just Cause
Operation Provide Comfort
Operation Allied Force (survived this shit)
Operation Enduring Freedom
Operation Iraqi Freedom
Operation New Dawn
Operation Odyssey Dawn

upcoming

Operation Freedom for Iran :rolleyes:

They bring war and more destruction to the foreign countries and they call it fancy names, like they are freaking Santa Claus coming to give candies to kids or Jesus who's on a healing mission...

And on top of that they have a muslim president, Hussein Barack Obama :mrgreen:

Oh yeah, one last thing. Majority of educated Americans are in fact coming from India. Guess that inbreeding doesn't work as they expected  :lol:
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 16, 2012, 08:11:07 pm
Yeah Yugoslavia was pretty fucking great, if you were a Serb. Let me guess. You're Serbian yes?
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 16, 2012, 09:43:58 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on January 16, 2012, 10:42:12 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 16, 2012, 10:45:47 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Leshma on January 17, 2012, 12:11:42 am
Yeah Yugoslavia was pretty fucking great, if you were a Serb. Let me guess. You're Serbian yes?

1) Yugoslavia was pretty great for all common people of that country. Except maybe Slovenians.

2) I'm a Yugoslavian refugee and will stay that forever. Also concept of nationality is foreign to me. I will say that I'm Serbian under certain circumstances but I don't really believe in it. Neither I wouldn't classify myself as Bosnian (although I'm born there) nor part Croatian or part Jewish.

However I have Serbian citizenship but I have option to obtain Bosnian and Croatian citizenship as well.

Since I live in Serbia and share faith, good and bad with people of mostly Serbian nationality, at this moment I would call myself Serbian. But if I migrate somewhere else and live there for longer period of time I would call consider myself citizen of that country and would adopt their nationality. Also if humanity find a way to colonize some planets near us and I somehow end up there, I wouldn't consider myself citizen of the planet Earth anymore. You get my drift?

Being semi-pacifist, I believe that concept of nationalities and states is something very primitive that belongs to the past. I don't think that various traditions and languages should perish, I think we should find a way to keep all that cultural treasure because differences are what makes life good. But yes, I'm advocating for globalization.

Now you know something about me, next time better don't ask me such questions if you won't to avoid reading posts like this one :mrgreen:
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on January 17, 2012, 12:45:01 am
Being semi-pacifist, I believe that concept of nationalities and states is something very primitive that belongs to the past. I don't think that various traditions and languages should perish, I think we should find a way to keep all that cultural treasure because differences are what makes life good. But yes, I'm advocating for globalization.

Then I really wonder how you can hate 'mericans that genuinely, and dismiss both democracy and freedom. Democracy comes with laws. If the laws aren't in essence based on the opinion of the population and correctly applicated (corruption fighted), then it's not really a democracy (just like Lybia pretended to be one when I think we all know it wasn't). Capitalism is the economic model that can actually sustain a democracy, given that anything else leads to utter failure. There are different degrees of capitalism and this is were the interesting balance is, between merit and solidarity. What are we trying to acheive ? That's the real question.


The whole warmongering craze is a completely other thing, basically going against (true, not state driven) capitalism. But really, you should watch this BBC series about it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt-FyuuWlWQ
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 17, 2012, 01:08:28 pm
Huntsman pulled out and is now supporting Mitt Romney, so people who supported him look quite foolish now.

Anyone who think Romney will save businesses and create jobs is per definition ignorant, he does what every other major corporation does, buys a company that runs fine, sells/fires everything that isn't melted to the floor, and moves it to China (or where ever in that Region it is cheapest). China produces most of what we use, from all peoples precious iPhones, to consoles and what not. They do that in factory complexes that are basically HELL, the suicide rate is tremendously high among factory workers in China plus their will to live is at an all time lowest, it is so horrible there that corporations are spending money trying to prevent the suicides, but not in a 'good way' by for example increasing the work environment and atmosphere so everyone can have a better life and work, no, they do it by just making sure the workers can't kill themselves, e.g. forcefully. That's the Western future for most common folk (unskilled workers) if people don't wake up, because there's not enough jobs in the technology sector to pick up the slack from every other field.



I bet 99.9% of the people here supporting Mitt or other candidates than Ron Paul have never traveled the World, probably haven't even dared to set a foot in the Middle East because it is oh so dangerous, too many "bubble children" in this World.

The World isn't dangerous, people are people everywhere (except those New Guinea cannibals :P).

Images you would never see on MSM from Iran (http://youtu.be/98j0I7e5OHE).

There's lots more from ACTUAL Iran people should see for themselves since it is nowhere near the depiction given in the general media. I'm not saying their government and elements within it isn't dangerous, yes they are, but it is not like governments or lobbyists are idiots in any way, money controls which means some of the best minds are always bought. You can make an intelligent and profound argument for any subject if you withhold exact information and that is basically what is being done in general.

The Vietnam war effectively ended the way journalists could report from the field, because when people saw the actual images of war, what war really is, the general public will never support it, as seen with the Vietnam war. Therefore, ever since, all footage from wars have been approved already by the military, plus as everyone should have noticed, there is never a journalist actually within the population in a war, they're always with OUR soldiers now. The few times that journalists have actually tried to stay with the civilian population in a war situation to report the truth they've been deliberately targeted.

Thank god we have the Internet and cellphone cameras today or we would be completely screwed.



Watch the documentary ENEMY IMAGE (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0485898/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0485898/)) - available online here (http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/enemy-image/).

Quote
When Baghdad exploded under bombs, television chose to bring us fireworks. But does this distant and spectacular image tell us what is really happening on the ground, how it feels or what it means? Television has the means to take us anywhere and show us anything. It can bring us the physical experience of war with all its’ horrors, like no other medium, and yet the image of American war on television is disembodied, bloodless, and unreal. The invasion of Iraq was the most closely documented war ever fought. Lasting only 800 hours, it produced 20,000 hours of video, but those images were tightly controlled, producing a monolithic view of combat sanitized and controlled by the Pentagon.

Enemy Image traces the ways us television has covered war, starting with Vietnam in the 1960s and shows how the military has devised ever-improving means of ensuring the American public never again has the real face of combat beamed directly into their living rooms. Comparing footage of Vietnam, including rarely-seen material shot in North Vietnam, to coverage of Iraq and using extensive interviews with veteran war correspondents and news anchors, Mark Daniels demonstrates how television that once revealed the truth is now increasingly used to hide it.

What's dangerous is corporations and governments not respecting the constitutions of their countries - which basically means EVERY single country in the World today.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Leshma on January 17, 2012, 06:13:58 pm
Then I really wonder how you can hate 'mericans that genuinely, and dismiss both democracy and freedom. Democracy comes with laws. If the laws aren't in essence based on the opinion of the population and correctly applicated (corruption fighted), then it's not really a democracy (just like Lybia pretended to be one when I think we all know it wasn't). Capitalism is the economic model that can actually sustain a democracy, given that anything else leads to utter failure. There are different degrees of capitalism and this is were the interesting balance is, between merit and solidarity. What are we trying to acheive ? That's the real question.


The whole warmongering craze is a completely other thing, basically going against (true, not state driven) capitalism. But really, you should watch this BBC series about it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt-FyuuWlWQ

I don't hate anyone, especially not Americans. I'm just criticizing their government. Unlike many people I don't believe that in this age, people can change things on elections. They can vote for any of those guys and things will still move in the same direction.

And I disagree about capitalism. First thing, as you've probably notices I'm an idealist. And second, for me capitalism is the embodiment of evolution. I do believe in evolution theory but I don't like it. It's cruel, and since we humans praise our humanity we should do things differently. No killings, no torture, just creation and love all around us.

If you don't like someone just ignore him, no need for hatred. That's my motto.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 17, 2012, 10:32:06 pm
People should really watch Enemy Image, it's a good documentary.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on January 17, 2012, 11:03:07 pm
Sounds boring.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 18, 2012, 12:15:08 am
Sounds boring.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Ujin on January 19, 2012, 07:00:09 pm
American media vs Ron Paul :

Media - ok ,here's the question , do you love America? THEN Y U NO WANNA ATTACK OTHER COUNTRIES, THEY"RE ALL EVIL AND TERRORISTS!?

R.P. - *starts speaking the truth and things that make sence*

Media - *UUUH OOHHH OH NOO MY EARS ! This guy is TOO DAMN RIGHT ! Quickly, i gotta interrupt him or call him a racist or just do SOMETHING before i lose my paycheck !*...... 9/11 !!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UNC1vtP0a0
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Leshma on January 19, 2012, 07:23:46 pm
That Bill dude just proves that TV is shit all around the world. Here we have similar "experts" and "media personalities" whose biggest qualities are being rude, loud and ignorant.

I sincerely hope that internet isn't gonna turn into what TV is now. I would stop using it in that case, just like I've almost stopped watching television...
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 19, 2012, 07:33:35 pm
For teh Amehrikans:
(Some European countries buy the same equipment though)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Leshma on January 19, 2012, 08:34:56 pm
Dat Raptor is teh shit, totally worth those 676.3 homes :D

B-2 is crap like most of those "stealth" bombers...
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on January 19, 2012, 09:24:21 pm
(Some European countries buy the same equipment though)

I have heard in many many places that most of the problems Greece got itself into are due to recent very large spendings in the military. I think it was due to tensions with Turkey (as always in that region... but wtf... buying military equipment, like they are planning a war xD).

I couldn't approve more with Ron Paul when he says the neo-conservatives put the US in a terrible position with the "one good nation fights against evil" dogma and the "preventive attacks" that followed. Being the world's police force costs. A lot. Curious thing, the (rare) politicians that criticize past decisions of their country and do "history courses" like that are usually the ones I'm listening to.


Btw : I don't want to imagine what BF3 would be like if the disponibility of inf/tanks/aircraft was based on prices :mrgreen: Even more infantry and anti-jet biased than now I guess.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Christo on January 19, 2012, 10:23:03 pm
Btw : I don't want to imagine what BF3 would be like if the disponibility of inf/tanks/aircraft was based on prices :mrgreen: Even more infantry and anti-jet biased than now I guess.

Tbh I'd love an RTS/FPS clone like that.

You'd get a country to play around with the economy, learn what costs what, and have to pay realistic prices and realistic consequences for every decision you'd make, etcetc.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on January 19, 2012, 10:43:41 pm
Tbh I'd love an RTS/FPS clone like that.

You'd get a country to play around with the economy, learn what costs what, and have to pay realistic prices and realistic consequences for every decision you'd make, etcetc.

Paradox games are for you then. Although prices aren't really realistic, you can't field a uber army or be at war during ages like it's nothing.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Christo on January 19, 2012, 11:41:08 pm
Paradox games are for you then. Although prices aren't really realistic, you can't field a uber army or be at war during ages like it's nothing.

I tried Hearts of Iron and stuff, but the whole thing was a bit too confusing for me, especially after playing things like the Total War series.

Yeah call me stupid but it wasn't really a pleasant welcome to the game, with tutorials that don't work, etc.

Even warband multiplayer with it's difficult combat system (back in the day, it was very difficult especially here,) was easier to get into, judging how unforgiving it can be.

And that's what I went with after all, as you can see.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Leshma on January 19, 2012, 11:57:28 pm
Try this game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeoGnzlFNPk
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Christo on January 20, 2012, 12:23:14 am
Try this game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeoGnzlFNPk

Looks interesting, I'll give it a try.

It gets really bad reviews/rates for some reason though.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Ujin on January 20, 2012, 01:40:19 am
Hilarious stuff =)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb5aGgQXhXo&feature=related
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Bobthehero on January 20, 2012, 02:04:09 am
Cry some more military haters.


Seriously that chart is shitty as hell, 17 500$ = 0.8 houses then 830 000$ = 3.7 houses? Learn to fuck mathematic.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Ujin on January 20, 2012, 02:18:52 am
Nah, we're not crying.

These people , however, are :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta-khdm8SJA


And these


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSMlIM9zLio


Oh and probably people like this fella cry too from time to time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eNPAH46oI8&feature=related
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Bobthehero on January 20, 2012, 02:50:29 am
Uh uh

I don't give a single fuck about those people, just saying.

Except perhaps those military dudes, but thats because I want to join the army.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Leshma on January 20, 2012, 04:06:13 am
By joining army, you mean applying to some prestigious military school or you're so desperate so that military service is your only choice in life?
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Bobthehero on January 20, 2012, 04:07:19 am
I am currently in University thank you very much, still want to do my military service.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Ujin on January 20, 2012, 10:24:43 am
Uh uh

I don't give a single fuck about those people, just saying.

Except perhaps those military dudes, but thats because I want to join the army.
But as a future american soldier, you're supposed to care about these people's freedom, liberty and constitutional rights. Cause you're bringing democracy to them. Just saying.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on January 20, 2012, 12:20:35 pm
Some people just want to see the WORLD BURN
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 20, 2012, 06:20:27 pm
Uh uh

I don't give a single fuck about those people, just saying.

Except perhaps those military dudes, but thats because I want to join the army.

And that's exactly why the army shouldn't have any role whatsoever in nation building. I could call you an ethnocentric racist cunt who believes American lives are worth more than others, but that's a given when looking at your comment. 
Whether you like it or not, your mission in Iraq was to defend those people and basically play the role of exposed, sitting duck police force. A role the army is not suited for in any way. You spend trillions of dollars making a conventional army whose purpose is the application of quick and overwhelming force, bombard them with propaganda about how killing some random "sand friend" in a third world country thousands of miles away is "defending" the US, how killing innocents is a-ok if it could possibly mean one of the Chosen Ones (i.e Americans) doesn't get a splinter in his toe, and then you use them as cops.
It might sound like I'm shooting down the US military a lot, but I'm not, an effective military needs to dehumanize the enemy, there's no way around that. It's the same everywhere, the US aren't particularly more evil than any other nation would be with the same access to power, and less than most. But your leaders tried to shove a square peg in a round hole.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: SixThumbs on January 20, 2012, 08:06:05 pm
I got myself discharged from the military after being subjected to the ridiculous system for 6 months. It's a chimera of people from all different walks of life who may or may not have good intentions but it's all over-shadowed anyway by some invisible hand using the institution for more or less monetary/power reasons. And, generally the ones in-charge are the ones who were indoctrinated to the point of obsequiousness and loss of self to the "green machine"; the camaraderie is genuine but the bigger picture dwarfed that for me.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Bobthehero on January 20, 2012, 09:04:32 pm
And that's exactly why the army shouldn't have any role whatsoever in nation building. I could call you an ethnocentric racist cunt who believes American lives are worth more than others, but that's a given when looking at your comment. 
Whether you like it or not, your mission in Iraq was to defend those people and basically play the role of exposed, sitting duck police force. A role the army is not suited for in any way. You spend trillions of dollars making a conventional army whose purpose is the application of quick and overwhelming force, bombard them with propaganda about how killing some random "sand friend" in a third world country thousands of miles away is "defending" the US, how killing innocents is a-ok if it could possibly mean one of the Chosen Ones (i.e Americans) doesn't get a splinter in his toe, and then you use them as cops.
It might sound like I'm shooting down the US military a lot, but I'm not, an effective military needs to dehumanize the enemy, there's no way around that. It's the same everywhere, the US aren't particularly more evil than any other nation would be with the same access to power, and less than most. But your leaders tried to shove a square peg in a round hole.

But as a future american soldier, you're supposed to care about these people's freedom, liberty and constitutional rights. Cause you're bringing democracy to them. Just saying.

Canadian soldier for both.

And I don't care about them not because of their races, I just... don't care.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 20, 2012, 09:21:51 pm
Canadian soldier for both.

And I don't care about them not because of their races, I just... don't care.

Straight up racist dehumanization isn't openly possible in a multiracial army, but there are other ways... So, knowing what the mission over in Iraq is, why would you ever want to go there? You don't care about them. Do you come from a military family?
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 20, 2012, 09:25:43 pm
Straight up racist dehumanization isn't openly possible in a multiracial army, but there are other ways... So, knowing what the mission over in Iraq is, why would you ever want to go there? You don't care about them. Do you come from a military family?

I like how you are arguing with him on a personal choice  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 20, 2012, 10:07:43 pm
I like how you are arguing with him on a personal choice  :rolleyes:

Is there any such thing as a choice that isn't personal? Doesn't make it immune to criticism or, god forbid, curiosity.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Bobthehero on January 20, 2012, 10:15:39 pm
Well my grandfather was in the army and hated by everyone, my mom and dad were kinda shocked when I told them, but now they're ok with it.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on January 21, 2012, 12:19:01 pm
We want states that have armies. Not armies that have states.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Leshma on January 21, 2012, 01:57:39 pm
We want states that have armies. Not armies that have states.

Impossible. It's all about power. Humans are wired that way.

If we ever find some "intelligent" life in outer space, we won't consider it intelligent if it has no desire to completely destroy our race. We are destructive force, pretty much like viruses.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 21, 2012, 09:37:53 pm
Impossible. It's all about power. Humans are wired that way.

If we ever find some "intelligent" life in outer space, we won't consider it intelligent if it has no desire to completely destroy our race. We are destructive force, pretty much like viruses.

Yes, but your ideology is pretty much a meaningless mish mash of flower power hippy bullshit and retarded idealization, with a dash of luddite. Classically schizophrenic, too. Oh I wish we could all live in peace and be happy and stuff, BUT HUMANS SUCK WE ARE HERALDS OF DESTRUCTION WE ARE VIRUSES THEY MUST ALL DIE IT IS THE ONLY WAY.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: B3RS3RK on January 21, 2012, 09:55:40 pm
Impossible. It's all about power. Humans are wired that way.

If we ever find some "intelligent" life in outer space, we won't consider it intelligent if it has no desire to completely destroy our race. We are destructive force, pretty much like viruses.

Total Bullshit.

You mean if we find a highly developed Alien culture in outer space with Technology 1000times better than ours we will consider them stupid if they dont want to destroy us?

And the Human is not destructive per se.It´s the Cultural influence and the development of habits over the Centurys.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: iron_mat on January 21, 2012, 10:38:46 pm
I foresaw Newt Gingrich winning South Carolina and the crazy old man Ron Paul finishing behind everyone. Take that silly Ron Paul supporters!
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Leshma on January 21, 2012, 11:45:32 pm
Yes, but your ideology is pretty much a meaningless mish mash of flower power hippy bullshit and retarded idealization, with a dash of luddite. Classically schizophrenic, too. Oh I wish we could all live in peace and be happy and stuff, BUT HUMANS SUCK WE ARE HERALDS OF DESTRUCTION WE ARE VIRUSES THEY MUST ALL DIE IT IS THE ONLY WAY.

It's not hippy bullshit. Hippies were mostly young people on drugs and therefore couldn't think straight. Many of them, when stopped using drugs and came to their senses, aborted everything they've previously "believed" in...

My ideology is called anarcho pacifism. It's the same ideology which helped Gandhi to free India, same ideology helped Martin Luther King Jr. to free black people in America.

Right now, corporations own the states and control their armies. Therefore common people, no matter how many of us want the real change (not Obama's bullshit), can't do shit against corporations who are too strong and a lot more organized than common people could ever become.

War with them isn't an option, only way to beat them is passive approach.

And humans are destructive force in nature. We did a lot of good for ourselves (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev9oPUNaqXE&feature=player_embedded) but from nature's point of view (which includes all other species) we're nothing but trouble.

I believe that we can change that, simply because I've managed to change my point of view over time and so did many (some of them are very important) people in the past. When majority accept that way of thinking, world will become a better place than it is now.

Basically, all you have to do is to think with your own head and you'll realize what's good and what's wrong. If you keep thinking what your ancestors put in your head, you might end being a fool simply because their teaching were wrong.

Quote
You mean if we find a highly developed Alien culture in outer space with Technology 1000times better than ours we will consider them stupid if they dont want to destroy us?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what majority would think in such case. At first, we would fear them greatly cause they are more technologically advanced than us, next thing we would try to achieve is to try to understand their tech and get on their level. After that I'm pretty sure that we would either wait (smart move) to progress even further and leave them in the dust and then destroy them. Or we would get into war with them while we're at same level with them (stupid move). Right now, we are like that. But that doesn't mean we can't change someday. After all, we're evolving pretty fast.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 22, 2012, 12:06:11 am
Life itself is a virus. Unchecked, it will spread and spread until it consumes everything around it, and then die. Entropy is a universal law, and nature is subject to it.
Nature doesn't have a point of view, it's a system that balances automatically, and continually. It has never been stable. There is no "good" or "bad" in nature. Even biodiversity is only "good" for us because we historically survived off of it. From nature's "point of view," it doesn't give a flying shit about species going extinct. Obsolete species going extinct and being replaced by others is one of the mechanisms used for balance, and it's always been subject to external pressures, such as climate change for example.
And ideologies don't happen in a vacuum, devoid of context. I guarantee your "organic" ideas were entirely lifted from stuff other people have said before. There are no new ideas, it's all been said before.
And no, we're not evolving pretty fast, at least in the way you mean. Evolution isn't about moving forward all the time. There are species that have found niches and have for all practical purposes ceased to evolve millions of years ago. Or massive saurian beasts who were at the top of the food chain "evolving" into birds. Evolving is a misnomer, it would be much more appropriate to say addapt. And humanity's method of addapting has ceased to be through genetic means ever since we became tool users, and free from the pressures of natural selection. We've been making our own "evolution" for a while now, yet we are genetically identical to homo sapiens a hundred thousand years ago.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Christo on January 22, 2012, 12:12:20 am
Agreed.

Our "evolution" is more technological, than genetic/anatomic.

However, if you ever go to a medieval castle, and check sometimes how small the walkways and staircases are,
(I know in real castles this served a defensive purpose, but this is true for all kinda buildings)
Or see an excavation with skeletons, and armour etc, you'll notice that the human 1000 years or more ago was a lot more smaller, and sturdier. Thanks to our technology, we don't really need to be sturdy at all. However, the increased height is something I can't really explain.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 22, 2012, 12:16:47 am
Agreed.

Our "evolution" is more technological, than anatomic.

However, if you ever go to a medieval castle, and check sometimes how small the walkways and staircases are,
(I know in real castles this served a defensive purpose, but this is true for all kinda buildings)
Or see an excavation with skeletons, and armour etc, you'll notice that the human 1000 years or more ago was a lot more smaller, and sturdier. Thanks to our technology, we don't really need to be sturdy at all. However, the increased height is something I can't really explain.

Better balanced, diversified food intake. And meat. Meat used to be a meal for elites (except in hunter gatherer societies, but they never had enough food surplus to explode in numbers like animal domestication/farming societies).
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Christo on January 22, 2012, 12:18:15 am
Oh, that's it?

I thought it's related to something else.

 :)
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 22, 2012, 12:23:56 am
It's super important. You are what you eat, type of thing XD. I guarantee you if society broke down and we started feeding like people used to a thousand years ago in certain areas, we'd get the same amount of children dying at super young ages (mostly due to malnutrition). Nutritionism is such an unreguarded science.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Christo on January 22, 2012, 12:27:01 am
Quite overlooked, yeah.

I didn't even think of that being the culprit.  :wink:
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 22, 2012, 12:33:17 am
Article on that very subject:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-are-we-getting-taller
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on January 22, 2012, 03:08:36 am
Life itself is a virus. Unchecked, it will spread and spread until it consumes everything around it, and then die. Entropy is a universal law, and nature is subject to it.
Nature doesn't have a point of view, it's a system that balances automatically, and continually. It has never been stable. There is no "good" or "bad" in nature. Even biodiversity is only "good" for us because we historically survived off of it. From nature's "point of view," it doesn't give a flying shit about species going extinct. Obsolete species going extinct and being replaced by others is one of the mechanisms used for balance, and it's always been subject to external pressures, such as climate change for example.
And ideologies don't happen in a vacuum, devoid of context. I guarantee your "organic" ideas were entirely lifted from stuff other people have said before. There are no new ideas, it's all been said before.
And no, we're not evolving pretty fast, at least in the way you mean. Evolution isn't about moving forward all the time. There are species that have found niches and have for all practical purposes ceased to evolve millions of years ago. Or massive saurian beasts who were at the top of the food chain "evolving" into birds. Evolving is a misnomer, it would be much more appropriate to say addapt. And humanity's method of addapting has ceased to be through genetic means ever since we became tool users, and free from the pressures of natural selection. We've been making our own "evolution" for a while now, yet we are genetically identical to homo sapiens a hundred thousand years ago.

I would even go further and say that the word destruction has no objective meaning. Absolutely nothing is destructed. Ever. Things change. Even a nuclear bomb is that. Mass transformed in energy. What we perceive as destruction is usually a change that either kills (from a biological pov) beings that we care about (not flies and the bacteria in your stomach) or when things we use / created / like / know are changed in some way we don't like. It's all subjective.

And that we would consider peaceful (yet more technologically advanced, at least in the military domain) aliens as stupid is beyond my imagination. We (as fat occidentals) could consider stupid aliens that would behave like human meditation masters (you know the shit about finding happiness inside and not caring about the outside), instead of pursuing happiness by more "conventional" means, doing commerce, building things, art etc. We would also be completely lost on understanding a specie that wouldn't be "controlled" by it's anatomy like us, at all. We spend 100% of our time trying to feel happy, by whatever mean. "Happiness" hormone regulation in the body is exactly how we are naturally programmed into certain behavior patterns, that apparently proved to be effective for reproduction and survival (otherwise we probably wouldn't be like that) over the short time we lived. I think the greatest revolution of mankind would be setting us free of this. For the better, and probably for the worst.

War happens because someone thinks it's a smart move. Or is butthurt. Or has no other choice. By the time we meet aliens, we will probably have handed down our international diplomacy to computers, or (which is the same in the end), stopped with the nation concept madness and have a world government. Anyway, I doubt we would go to war with aliens only on a expansionnist/resource hunting base. Maybe ideology/religion, although the opinion of an alien couldn't matter less to me (well it's also the case for humans so meh). It is probable that both of the parties (even for the one that is more advanced) would have much more to win out of trade rather than war. We have no idea how an alien race could have developped in science in the same time as us. Probably in very different directions.

We would be soooo different from each other the only smart move would be sharing and make something out of this difference.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on January 22, 2012, 04:40:01 am
Life itself is a virus. Unchecked, it will spread and spread until it consumes everything around it, and then die. Entropy is a universal law, and nature is subject to it.
Nature doesn't have a point of view, it's a system that balances automatically, and continually. It has never been stable. There is no "good" or "bad" in nature. Even biodiversity is only "good" for us because we historically survived off of it. From nature's "point of view," it doesn't give a flying shit about species going extinct. Obsolete species going extinct and being replaced by others is one of the mechanisms used for balance, and it's always been subject to external pressures, such as climate change for example.
And ideologies don't happen in a vacuum, devoid of context. I guarantee your "organic" ideas were entirely lifted from stuff other people have said before. There are no new ideas, it's all been said before.

Yeah. If, when you say nature, you mean Earth's plants and trees and the animals, then sure humans can be considered destructive. But when you think on a larger scale humans might just be the answer, "nature's" ultimate achievement. Everything up until now was just an experiment to get humans. Finally there's something that's capable of creating something in a day that took hundreds of thousands of years from nature to create. Humans can create life and change it, humans are the only ones capable of doing something to stop the world (Earth, maybe even the whole universe someday, who knows!) from ending. The only ones capable of transporting life to another planet, of solving mysteries of the universe and possibly creating their own universes in the end as well.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on January 22, 2012, 05:26:00 pm
Yeah. If, when you say nature, you mean Earth's plants and trees and the animals, then sure humans can be considered destructive. But when you think on a larger scale humans might just be the answer, "nature's" ultimate achievement. Everything up until now was just an experiment to get humans. Finally there's something that's capable of creating something in a day that took hundreds of thousands of years from nature to create. Humans can create life and change it, humans are the only ones capable of doing something to stop the world (Earth, maybe even the whole universe someday, who knows!) from ending. The only ones capable of transporting life to another planet, of solving mysteries of the universe and possibly creating their own universes in the end as well.

I doubt that. Nature has no goal, no mean and no bias. It is chaotic, but strictly follows the rules (the rules are chaotic themselves). Furthermore, if we consider the universe infinite, then the probability of the existence of other beings we would consider as "alive" and even "intelligent" is 1. They may not exist, just like an object you throw in front of you may end up at exactly (this is the important word) 5.0000000 (and and infinity of 0's) meters of you. I don't think we know for sure whether the universe is infinite or not because our power to see what exists far away, and subsequently far in the past too, is blocked by an "electromagnetic fog" due to the big bang. We can't "see" before that, which means we can't see through it. All the photons we get from that are like a big parasite. An infinite universe may exist out of that "wall" afaik.

So if other intelligent beings exist, I don't see the "point" of humans.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 22, 2012, 07:00:28 pm
Ha ha so now it all turned into a philosophical discussion.

That's quite easy to end though, given that there is no point to life at least not one we will realize in a billion years. So what we should do, what we should be and so on,  it is what we make of it together nothing more nothing less. Do you want Earth and society on it to be hell? Then keep acting like an ignorant moron etc. Deeds are eternal not our lives.

If anything, at least all our warmongering will serve us great purpose in space, when we finally penetrate the final frontier in the far away future, no doubt there have to be some other "guys" out there we can steamroll with our superior history of wars.



VIDEO: Ron Paul Moves To Repeal Indefinite Detention Of American Citizens Without Trial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grXmxxrxKb0)

Now to stay on topic, as far as I could find out online, Ron Paul has been the only politician except for a few Independents (<3 Sanders) that has spoken out against the NDAA - that gives the US military the right to the indefinite detention of American citizens without trial - Not one of the other Republican candidates nor Obama who equally support the NDAA on the same terms as Mitt Romney, even though Obama did say he had reservations when signing, not that his statement means anything at all just more empty words. There's a lot of misinformation about the NDAA though and to learn the absolutely truth you have to read the actual pages yourself (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr1540enr/pdf/BILLS-112hr1540enr.pdf) (this is a link to the actual bill in PDF form).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012)

Quote from: Wikipedia
The most controversial provisions to receive wide attention are contained in Title X, Subtitle D, entitled "Counter-Terrorism." In particular, sub-sections 1021 and 1022, which deal with detention of persons the government suspects of involvement in terrorism, have generated controversy as to their legal meaning and their potential implications for abuse of Presidential authority. Although the White House and Senate sponsors maintain that the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) already grants presidential authority for indefinite detention, the Act states that Congress "affirms" this authority and makes specific provisions as to the exercise of that authority. The detention provisions of the Act have received critical attention by, among others, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and some media sources which are concerned about the scope of the President's authority, including contentions that those whom they claim may be held indefinitely could include U.S. citizens arrested on American soil, including arrests by members of the Armed Forces.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on January 22, 2012, 07:14:18 pm
I doubt that. Nature has no goal, no mean and no bias.

Based on what?
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Angantyr on January 22, 2012, 07:46:57 pm
(click to show/hide)

It's interesting how easy such a hard-won freedom is today being taken away from US citizens, many of whom are unaware that it even exists, what it means specifically, how their ancestors fought for it and how fundamental it is to an individual's rights in a modern democracy. The extent to which this has already been abused is mind-boggling.

Of course the fault mainly lies with the Media who continues to shy away from its ideal role in a democracy, that of providing unbiased and adequate reporting as a basis on which voters can make the choices that are best for as many people as possible. Were it not just a big corporate mummer's show journalists would bring to attention the issues that really mattered.

Thank God we yet have a relatively free internet as a source of information.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on January 22, 2012, 08:31:00 pm
Ha ha so now it all turned into a philosophical discussion.

Not really, my last post was 100% science. No philosophy in that. For me, philosophy is quite simple. A very simple biology course about reward hormones can destroy 99% of greek/german philosophers pretending that happiness is only this or only that. So I don't really care about it.

Based on what?

Because we don't need to add any intent, bias, goal or whatever to describe and predict nature. As such, the existence of a goal has no influence on the world as we perceive it, which means it could also not exist. Just like gods or basically any myth, including the invisible pink unicorn behind the moon.

It's interesting how easy such a hard-won freedom is today being taken away from US citizens, many of whom are unaware that it even exists, what it means specifically, how their ancestors fought for it and how fundamental it is to an individual's rights in a modern democracy. The extent to which this has already been abused is mind-boggling.

Of course the fault mainly lies with the Media who continues to shy away from its ideal role in a democracy, that of providing unbiased and adequate reporting as a basis on which voters can make the choices that are best for as many people as possible. Were it not just a big corporate mummer's show journalists would bring to attention the issues that really mattered.

Thank God we yet have a relatively free internet as a source of information.

Humans tend to forget the price of things they have. And they never learn that of what they always had. Including individual rights. That's why a part of the young generation is fighting for internet freedom, but didn't move a single finger about the patriot act. And it also explains why the older generation is generally less outraged by what is happening now about the internet. Many older people don't use it to it's full extent, and as such don't know the true value of the internet.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on January 22, 2012, 09:25:41 pm
Because we don't need to add any intent, bias, goal or whatever to describe and predict nature.

We don't need to add any intent, bias or goal to a rat wheel either to describe and predict it. Don't mean it has none or that no one put it there.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on January 23, 2012, 11:01:13 am
We don't need to add any intent, bias or goal to a rat wheel either to describe and predict it. Don't mean it has none or that no one put it there.

There's a difference between the rat wheel having an intent on it's own, and something/someone else having an intent in placing the rat wheel somewhere. When you drive a car with the intent of going somewhere, the car still has no intent.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on January 23, 2012, 11:57:40 am
I don't disagree with that.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 25, 2012, 10:36:34 am
Voting fraud in Iowa and South Carolina?
How could also Newt Gingrich surge so high in South Carolina, out of nowhere.
Yeah, the South Carolinian's love this man so much that they gave him a landslide victory but no one bothers to show up at his campaign events? Makes sense.



Other related
... and most importantly of all, Chuck Norris is a strong Ron Paul supporter! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeoaA03EerU)
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 25, 2012, 10:48:56 am
HAHAHAHA Santorum?! They're even more insane than I could possibly have imagined.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Leshma on January 25, 2012, 01:22:48 pm
Wiki says:

Quote
After running in the bottom tier of candidates for several months, he narrowly won the January 2012 Iowa caucuses,[9] after endorsement by a group of prominent evangelical Christian leaders.

:lol:
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: iron_mat on January 25, 2012, 01:36:34 pm
Everybody is corrupt, no big deal. It just happens Santorum takes more for some reasons, probably because he's actually out there, doing things and meeting important people. As if you little nerdz wouldn't take the cash wololol
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Angantyr on January 25, 2012, 06:48:08 pm
Yet, some countries are way more corrupt than others, in a Western context the US and Southern Europe for example.

And where you might, I know I would never be corrupt myself and live with it. Of course you can brew up some extreme cases where I might (some loved one's life in danger and the only remedy is money bla bla bla), but for greed only I'd never do it, nor would a lot of people I know (though a lot probably would, regrettably).

The major problem here in modern politics is the legal corruption, for appearances called 'lobbying'. Of course an organization should be able to lobby for a representative to take up their case in a democracy, but usually it's just a matter of mere bribery. Money buying a policy, ideology and humanism nowhere in sight.


Also, thank you for the interesting links, Cooties, haven't read into voting fraud in the US since it was demonstrated under the Bush elections.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on January 25, 2012, 10:22:02 pm
http://www.worldaudit.org/corruption.htm


North Korea : 149/150

Makes sense :lol:

Happy living in 15/10 Belgium :P

Apart from that, some things are really interesting in this table. Like, a few "enlighted" not-so-democratic countries having good or very good corruption rankings. Like Singapore (I thought they had ok democracy but apparently not), UAE, Buthan, Rwanda (-> lol y u no corrupt ?), Saudi Arabia...
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on January 25, 2012, 10:33:59 pm
Lolz Croatia 49/37
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 25, 2012, 10:42:53 pm
Also, thank you for the interesting links, Cooties, haven't read into voting fraud in the US since it was demonstrated under the Bush elections.

There's a lot more than what I just pasted though, if you really want to read into it you need to research the actual software used, who made it, who funds it and so on.

Here's a starting point:

Quote
SCYTL is currently the worldwide leader in the Internet voting space and the acquisition of SOE Software, with its Clarity election management software suite, significantly expands SCYTL's product portfolio beyond electronic voting. Furthermore, SOE Software's strong US presence with 900 jurisdictions as customers in 26 states, including 14 state-wide customers, complements very effectively SCYTL's customer base in the United States and internationally with customers in over 20 different countries across 5 continents, including France, Spain, Canada, Norway, Switzerland, South Africa, United Arab Emirates, Mexico, India and Australia.

Quote
BALTIMORE & TAMPA, Fla., Jan 11, 2012 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- -- SCYTL is the global leader in online voting solutions with a presence in over twenty countries

-- SOE Software is the leading software company for election management solutions in the United States

-- The combination of the two companies creates the industry leader in election software with a strong market presence worldwide

SCYTL, the global leader in secure electronic voting technologies, announced today the acquisition of 100% of SOE Software, the leading software provider of election management solutions in the United States. The integration of these two software companies creates the industry leader in the election software market with a full range of solutions covering from Internet voting to election night reporting and online pollworker training, and a strong market presence worldwide.

In general most people already "shut down" when having to read up on these things though, breaking out of the vicious safety bubble is very scary for the general individual, realizing that there's really no safety net nor an honest government protecting them or their liberties, just a hamster wheel of spending and consuming, and if you're lucky you can spend a bit more than you consume and that's your life.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: iron_mat on January 25, 2012, 11:52:27 pm
Besides, the people who did the list of most corrupt countries, they are corrupt themselves I'm sure. Also, mega lol at the dude, Agantatyr for saying he'd never be corrupt lol... It's exactly what people say when they enter politics, I sense a bright future in you bro.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 25, 2012, 11:55:53 pm
Facts doesn't lie iron_mat just follow the money.. The simple act of reading a few publicly available documents...
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: iron_mat on January 26, 2012, 12:04:00 am
I've seen facts lie before, or wrong facts if you prefer. But meh... I didn't read nothing of it anyway, the thought of scaling corruption is kind of dumb I'd say it only points out which country does it openly and which country take bribes more secretly or whatever.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on January 26, 2012, 12:13:12 am
There's a lot more than what I just pasted though, if you really want to read into it you need to research the actual software used, who made it, who funds it and so on.

Here's a starting point:

  • SCYTL Acquires SOE Software, Becoming the Leading Election Software Provider (Market Watch (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/scytl-acquires-soe-software-becoming-the-leading-election-software-provider-2012-01-11))
In general most people already "shut down" when having to read up on these things though, breaking out of the vicious safety bubble is very scary for the general individual, realizing that there's really no safety net nor an honest government protecting them or their liberties, just a hamster wheel of spending and consuming, and if you're lucky you can spend a bit more than you consume and that's your life.

I don't really get your point there. What's the problem with election software ?
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 26, 2012, 12:22:54 am
The problem is that it is being tampered with and it is becoming increasingly easier to do so.
Just research it a bit, snoop around, you'll see.

If not.

Then maybe I'll do another round of info later on when I have time :wink:
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Ujin on January 26, 2012, 01:15:28 am
CNN Competing with Fox News it seems .. =)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lJxCMjAsjc&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7YbyNfEJFA&feature=related
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on January 26, 2012, 03:52:58 am
Every time Ron Paul opens his mouth, he makes sense to me. That's quite incredible given he's on campaign in the US. I don't agree all the time though, but atleast he has a well-thought program and he actually tells what he's going to do with numbers, not just what he tries to acheive. He's not afraid of showing the complexity of politics to the voters, he doesn't consider them as brainless votes on legs unlike all the other candidates and that is really something I like.

However, this time I would have said in my first answer : "Let's not waste our 3 minutes on that topic." and she would be like terrified about having a coherent conversation on an interesting subject. Would have been epic.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 28, 2012, 04:05:47 am
Latest debate.

Ron Paul Highlights - CNN Florida Debate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKjCEn7ad7E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKjCEn7ad7E)

Excellent video, must see for anyone truly interested in who should lead the biggest military power in the World.

Edit;

Also:

WSJ Economist: Ron Paul's 0% Income Tax
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjCq6woC_hg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjCq6woC_hg)
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 28, 2012, 06:53:06 am
Eh, the crisis was caused by too MUCH regulation of the banking industry? This guy is living in a parrallel dream world.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 28, 2012, 09:05:47 am
On the contrary, common misconception regarding regulations, obviously some are good, some are bad. The regulations needed aren't there and those which corrupt the system are, in short lobbyists flood the legislation system.

If you want a truly comprehensive view of how the system work I recommend the wonderful documentary Inside Job (imdb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1645089/)) (trailer (http://youtu.be/FzrBurlJUNk?hd=1))
Quote
'Inside Job' provides a comprehensive analysis of the global financial crisis of 2008, which at a cost over $20 trillion, caused millions of people to lose their jobs and homes in the worst recession since the Great Depression, and nearly resulted in a global financial collapse. Through exhaustive research and extensive interviews with key financial insiders, politicians, journalists, and academics, the film traces the rise of a rogue industry which has corrupted politics, regulation, and academia. It was made on location in the United States, Iceland, England, France, Singapore, and China.

Narrated by Mr Bourne aka Matt Damon.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on January 28, 2012, 11:49:35 am
I wouldn't believe what that guy says, he's an assassin.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 28, 2012, 11:55:57 am
Freddie May and Fannie Mac were responsible for under 5 percent of the total derivatives market, maybe even less. Bundling a bunch of crap and rating it AAA then selling it through dozens of differents owners for quick profits, knowing full well the shit was going to hit the fan eventually, had absolutely nothing to do with the government. What regulations would Ron Paul put in place to deal with that type of scam? Oh that's right, none, because government shouldn't ever get into the way of the gloriously perfect "free market".

"Libertarians are sectarian, and their tolerance does not extend beyond their ideology.

The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector. They will abuse their power regardless of where they perch. That is why government needs to be tied down by the Constitution and the private sector by regulation. Yes, regulation can go too far. Certainly, deregulation has gone too far."

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/01/23/how-libertarian-dogmatists-are-sabotaging-ron-pauls-campaign/
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 28, 2012, 12:09:38 pm
Warning, long post ahead:

One of the biggest chestnuts on the whole debate about what led to the financial crisis is the whole harping about Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae and CRA, one which Ron Paul wholeheartedly endorses. It is extremely frustrating to hear the CRA meme continuing to thrive after all this time, not least due to the "fair and balanced" media.

"Subprime" DOES NOT EQUAL "POOR" or "MINORITY".

When you hear that 80 percent of all loans were subprime, and that TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS of loans were made during the bubble, you have to be unthinking to take that to mean they were loans given to minorities. It is ignorance of the scale of the loans being made. EVERYONE was given a sub-prime loan. Even if you had perfect credit, you were conned into a sub-prime loan. Upper middle class people were put into sub-prime loans.

The idea this was a problem traced to getting minorities into homes is a stupid, racist joke!

And to believe the rules were changed to get more loans to minorities ignores the fact that the subprime bubble EXISTED ALL OVER THE INDUSTRIAL WORLD, NOT JUST IN THE US!

The reasons the number of loans were ramped up is simple. Banks needed cash. Interest rates were low because Greenspan wanted to goose the economy, which meant safe investments had worthless returns. So to make money, you had to take big risks on gigantic economies of scale. And that requires a boatload of cash and lots of leveraging. So borrowing began to skyrocket so that hedge funds and Wall Street dealers could leverage their bets in the markets. In order to provide the cash those dealers needed, banks had to come up with cash to loan to them. The banks came up with cash by selling securities. To sell securities, you have to create securities. To create securities you have to get people to take out home loans, auto loans, home equity loans, and run up their credit cards. It's all about the carry trade. You get people to take out home loans and then sell those loans to investors and then use that money to loan out in the commercial paper market for quick-turnaround funding to the bettors on Wall Street. Extremely profitable.

Understand? A whole lotta long term debt is financed with short term loans that have to be constantly rolled over. That's the way of the world now. That's why things crashed. The short debt was unable to be rolled over. Credit freeze because no one knew who was insolvent.

The idiot Cavuto and the Fox minions still haven't gotten it through their thick heads yet that the CRA had NOTHING to do with their operations. This was some idiotic idea some Republicans in Congress got into their heads in the first days after Lehman collapsed. And yet when asked, Nick Fuld plainly said "de minimus" when asked if getting loans to minorities had anything to do with his brokerage imploding.

It was an idiot question asked by clueless lawmakers who don't know a CDO from a booger in their nose. The finanical world had moved way, way, way, way past their Old Testament understanding.

So loans were made on an unprecedented scale. Which meant that EVERY demographic was increasing home ownership. Gee, what a shock the politicians of the time took credit for something which happened to "benefit" the poor. This ignores the fact these schemes were "benefitting" everyone.

The INTENT of the increase in loans was not to get more minorities into homes. That was an effect, not the cause or the motive. The intent of the increase in loans was to get as many people as possible all over the first world to borrow money so those loans could be securitized and sold to raise cash.

When your aim is to get as many people to borrow as much money as possible, you are naturally going to throw the old underwriting rules of the Universe out the window.

You see, a guy like Cavuto zeroes in on some black woman who works at Wal-Mart who got a loan for $200,000 and says, "See? It's all about the minorities!" And he will work hard to feed that confirmation bias by showing you an over-representation of minorities who screwed up.

He is absolutely correct that a minimum wage worker should not borrow $200,000.

What he ignores, though, is that you also have a guy who makes $60,000 who got a loan for $500,000. He ignores the fact that everyone was being pushed into borrowing more than they could afford, not just minorities.

The more money you make, the more you can borrow. And that means the more that can be securitized. Understand? So the goal is to get everyone to borrow as much as possible.

Once you understand that simple plan, then the idea the banks were somehow focused on minorities becomes ludicrous. Why limit yourself to minorities who can't borrow anything near what better off people can borrow?

You see how stupid it is to believe this was all about getting minorities into homes? They aren't the ones with the big bucks that are needed to be moved up to the boys on Wall Street. They are just a drop in the bucket that needs to be filled. A $500,000 sub-prime loan made to a middle class sucker will make way, way more profit than a $200,000 sub-prime loan made to a minority. So let's fudge everyone's paperwork, get this crap out of our hands as quickly as possible into the hands of our misled investors, and then make some REAL money.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on January 28, 2012, 12:30:16 pm
Financial Crisis was avoidable:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/business/economy/26inquiry.html?_r=1

"The report does knock down — at least partly — several early theories for the financial crisis. It says the low interest rates brought about by the Fed after the 2001 recession; Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage finance giants; and the “aggressive homeownership goals” set by the government as part of a “philosophy of opportunity” were not major culprits.

On the other hand, the report is harsh on regulators. It finds that the Securities and Exchange Commission failed to require big banks to hold more capital to cushion potential losses and halt risky practices, and that the Fed “neglected its mission.”

It says the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which regulates some banks, and the Office of Thrift Supervision, which oversees savings and loans, blocked states from curbing abuses because they were “caught up in turf wars.”

“The crisis was the result of human action and inaction, not of Mother Nature or computer models gone haywire,” the report states. “The captains of finance and the public stewards of our financial system ignored warnings and failed to question, understand and manage evolving risks within a system essential to the well-being of the American public. Theirs was a big miss, not a stumble.”

The report’s implications may be felt more in the political realm than in public policy. The Dodd-Frank law overhauling the regulation of Wall Street, signed in July, took as its premise the same regulatory deficiencies cited by the commission. But the report is sure to be a factor in the debate over the future of Fannie and Freddie, which have been run by the government since 2008. "

Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on January 28, 2012, 01:21:28 pm
spammer
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on January 28, 2012, 05:35:52 pm
"Subprimes" still happen now.

Just watch TV for 10 minutes and count the number of ads where you could buy things and pay afterwards, effectively making a loan without anyone asking you wether you are able to pay.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on January 29, 2012, 07:06:49 am
The cops are moving in on some Occupy protests: http://www.ustream.tv/occupyoakland (http://www.ustream.tv/occupyoakland) - quite "interesting" steam, or at least it was, there were some brutal shit going on earlier :o pretty disgusting to watch. Seems quite settled now though that they arrested everyone.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Christo on January 29, 2012, 04:43:13 pm
Every time Ron Paul opens his mouth, he makes sense to me. That's quite incredible given he's on campaign in the US. I don't agree all the time though, but atleast he has a well-thought program and he actually tells what he's going to do with numbers, not just what he tries to acheive. He's not afraid of showing the complexity of politics to the voters, he doesn't consider them as brainless votes on legs unlike all the other candidates and that is really something I like.

And that's why he won't win the election.

Sadly.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: iron_mat on January 29, 2012, 11:47:55 pm
He won't win because he's dumb, he wants Mahmoud to get his nukes!
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: MeevarTheMighty on January 30, 2012, 07:08:54 am
Chiming in from Australia, the other Republican candidates seem like clowns and I'd as soon vote for Sarah Palin. I'd say this could be America's last chance for a long time to elect a genuine statesman.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: iron_mat on February 01, 2012, 05:51:05 am
There we go, he finishes last in Florida, stupid Ron Paul! He might as well quit now.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on February 03, 2012, 02:50:48 pm
"Super PACs haven't led to billionaires secretly buying democracy; they've led to billionaires publicly buying democracy."
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/407712/february-02-2012/america-s-biggest-super-pac-donors (http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/407712/february-02-2012/america-s-biggest-super-pac-donors)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kalam on February 04, 2012, 04:43:43 am
Friggin' Paul. I was a constituent in his county once.

It wasn't much different from the neighboring county. Except you could smoke in public establishments.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: iron_mat on February 04, 2012, 02:55:24 pm
He's going to quit soon I'm sure, and that's a good thing for the future of this country. I don't think Santorum will finish the race anyway, he probably realised that people will vote on who they think has the best chances against Obama, a shame I guess.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Blondin on February 04, 2012, 03:10:59 pm
They should start by abolishing capital punishment, what a retrograde country.

After that we could start talking about politics and external war affairs...
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on February 04, 2012, 05:10:05 pm
They should start by abolishing capital punishment, what a retrograde country.

After that we could start talking about politics and external war affairs...

I think that's part of what the states decide individually. Some already stopped with the death sentence afaik.
Title: Re: A Message for the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on February 05, 2012, 12:44:31 am
Yeah sure if you consider reason going to pre WWII style isolationism, dropping trade agreements and hoping someone like, oh, say China doesn't snatch them up instantly is reasonable.

Fellow Americans, you don't want to know what happens when america is no longer a superpower, nor do you want to see what happens when we don't have strong trade. Isolationism is a death sentence in this day and age.

He's an honest guy and makes a good congressman, but i'd never want to see him in the presidency. Positive traits do not outweigh his absolutely ruinous platform.

He's talking about free trade, trading with countries that America currently does not trade with due to pathetic cold war grudges, Ron Paul would in-fact create trade by opening up diplomatic channels which have for many years been blocked by the archaic 20th century mentality of Neocon war mongers.

Ron Paul is not an isolationist, he's a non interventionist, and that's not to say that if another einstein comes to being in the world he won't try and take them down, because einstein actually invaded other nations, einstein actually displayed clear military aggression to the detriment of many of those nations citizens, but Ron Paul won't follow the establishments way of doing things, starting aggressive irresponsible wars in the name defence by means of pre-emptive strikes conducted after giving the public a dose of media fear instilling propaganda hyping up non existent threats, turning opinions into facts and making statements to hundreds of millions of people, distorting the truth of the real situation  and instead spinning the opinions of Zionist fear mongers and wealthy war profiteers as genuine facts, and anything contrary to be considered nonsense, only to be proven wrong years later after hundreds of thousands have died, including many civilians.

Ron Paul would more than likely go to war with real threats after passing it with congress if there is a real threat which warrants the blood of our service personal and the heartache of their families and the damage to wealth of our nations.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: iron_mat on February 05, 2012, 06:28:31 am
Capital punishment needs to stay. People seems to care more for the murderers and criminals than for the families and that annoys me greatly. We should talk more about it when your kids get raped/molested/tortured/murdered/eaten/necrophiled. Yes, let's not kill the bastard and give him a tv in his cell with steaks to eat!

EDIT: Dont wanna hear about the guy that got killed and was innocent. You can't make laws based on mistakes, what next? We put down jails and dont lock up nobody because seriously, being in jail sucks when you're innocent.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on February 05, 2012, 12:58:56 pm
My troll radar is getting hot. But heh, iron mat could be the average middle class white american.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: iron_mat on February 05, 2012, 01:45:04 pm
And you are the average welfare afro-american? What's your point? I'm not the only one that thinks the capital punishment has its place, if you can't understand why, you're the troll.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Blondin on February 05, 2012, 04:29:18 pm
I think that's part of what the states decide individually. Some already stopped with the death sentence afaik.

34/50 states are still using capital punishment.
I don't even argue with average middle class white american, this is pointless, that's what i'm saying, i could start talking about politics and external affairs with american ppl when they will evoluate to a modern state of mind.

You want another example, and this one is a federal law, even in their constitution : bearing guns is a right.

I'm sure 90% of EU understand what i'm saying without even arguing.


Oh and last one for the pleasure : USA President swear on the bible.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: iron_mat on February 05, 2012, 04:43:45 pm
You're dumb, you probably think the right to own weapons is for shooting bunnies or something. If it wasn't for guns, the country might still have a monarch, like you guys do in Europe? Look at yourselves before calling other countries backward. Also, would you say Japan is retrograde? They've got the death penalty as well You stink of anti-americanism so much...

One name: Anders Behring Breivik
Owned.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Leshma on February 05, 2012, 04:45:27 pm
Japan has a monarch as well.

Quote
One name: Anders Behring Breivik
Owned.

One dude in a long non violent history.

In US there's plenty of his type every year...
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: iron_mat on February 05, 2012, 04:46:26 pm
They do, but they also got death penalty. The point is, these guys are anti-usa.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: iron_mat on February 05, 2012, 04:49:32 pm
Theres 2 million people in Norway, you can't compare with a country like the USA. And this one guy you've got, its the worst recorded in human history. Seems he got his guns somewhere.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Christo on February 05, 2012, 04:58:48 pm
Theres 2 million people in Norway, you can't compare with a country like the USA. And this one guy you've got, its the worst recorded in human history. Seems he got his guns somewhere.

I'm sure not.

There are way more deaths by one man, if you do some research on war casualties for an example.

Just imagine a machine gunner, or somebody who just bombed a city to ashes.

I know we're talking about civilians here, you could find similar terrorist actions that ended up with more people dead.
Yeah, feels a bit weird to talk about death like that. Just had to counter.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: iron_mat on February 05, 2012, 05:02:33 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spree_killer

He's number 1 on there.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Angantyr on February 05, 2012, 05:13:14 pm
You're dumb, you probably think the right to own weapons is for shooting bunnies or something. If it wasn't for guns, the country might still have a monarch, like you guys do in Europe?
We've had our democratic revolutions here, mind you (in some countries without violence even), and our constitutional monarchies are just that, 'constitutional' - they have no rights or power over government whatsoever. I was aware american high school- and college history curriculum was etnocentric but are you sure you haven't learned this in school (serious question, not a jape)?

Concerning your proposed thesis about an armed population as a deterrent for government tyranny it completely ignores how modern war is conducted, for example by the US military; long-range artillery, attack helicopters, bombers, fighter jets, tanks, biological warfare, depleted uranium, white phosphorus, nukes. This is not 18th century revolutionary America anymore, the rules of the ('democratic') game has changed substantially.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Christo on February 05, 2012, 05:16:55 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spree_killer

He's number 1 on there.

Well, you said "in human history"

Not among these "modern era" spree killers.

That's totally different, then.

Anway, if we're really bragging about statistics, then look up some school massacres, and count how many happened in the U.S, compared to other countries. It's not something I'd be proud of.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: iron_mat on February 05, 2012, 05:32:19 pm
Well, Arganthyr, just look at Afghanistan and Vietnam. If they don't nuke these countries, they're not likely to bomb America, so I would say you are wrong, this is guerrila era and the 2ed amendment makes even more sense today than back then.

I don't really care if they got monarchs in europe, I like europe and it's cool. But the other guy said we swear on the bible, I'd rather have the president swear on the bible than bow before some king, that's just me... I'm not going to call you backward.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Blondin on February 05, 2012, 05:55:01 pm
I might show some primary anti-americanism but you are showing some primary ignorance, awesome, I thank you to be a living proof of what i'm saying.

Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Angantyr on February 05, 2012, 06:14:15 pm
Well, Arganthyr, just look at Afghanistan and Vietnam. If they don't nuke these countries, they're not likely to bomb America, so I would say you are wrong, this is guerrila era and the 2ed amendment makes even more sense today than back then.
It's a fair argument and we are definitely living in the guerilla age but certainly the case would be very different if the lives of those with access to nuclear armaments were suddenly endangered, as we might imagine during a revolt.

But the point still stands without nukes; handguns simply just won't be effective against the WMD's and killing machines of a modern army.


Edit:
Though of course it may be argued that an armed population will make it a much bloodier and dramatic affair for a government to subdue its people meaning an increased effort must be done in regards to propaganda so as to not invoke an international outrage. Though these things are not a problem really if you have powerful friends, Israel, Syria, South Africa and Tibet as cases in point.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on February 05, 2012, 08:27:51 pm
If there is a mass-scale revolt, they're not just going to use WMDs on their own country. Handguns are very effective, and would be enough to topple a government - provided a very large percentage of the citizens are determined and pro-revolutionary.

A pistol won't do much against a tank, but how are you going to rule a country where majority of the populace hates your guts and is going to shoot any law enforcers and soldiers on the streets (from among the "faithful" civilians, too)? You aren't, especially considering a good chunk of the police and armed forces would hop sides. It wouldn't be a "okay, revolutionary guys stand on that open field there with your handguns, pro-government forces stand on that open field with your war machines and disciplined troops. Fight!"
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on February 05, 2012, 08:34:10 pm
I don't mind regulated gun posession, but the idea that it's somehow a check on government tyranny is outdated and just irrelevant.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on February 05, 2012, 09:06:33 pm
More evidence of voter fraud. It would seem that the biggest issue is how seemingly way more "persons" cast a vote than there were actual voters signing in.
Once again as in the other states whole precincts won't have their votes counted.

Fun fact is that the only live publicly transmitted counting of votes (Late night Clark County voting) - Dr. Ron Paul won BIG -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7Ug1jdERZw :

Adelson Caucus Results (Clark County, Nevada)
Paul 58% (183 votes)
Romney 19% (61 votes)
Gingrich 18% (57 votes)
Santorum 5% (16 votes)
None (1 vote)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Now of course that specific voting session is being scrutinized and accused of foul play, even though it was public on a live feed, yet no one questions the election software or any of the other actual red flags. No, the one single voting count that wasn't secret, where the ballots was counted on live TV, yes of course that is the corrupt one. Makes sense - or wait... They're even accusing Ron Paul supporters of foul play here...

MSM also had no problem announcing Romney as the winner with as little as 3% counted in some precincts.

More from the Nevada Caucus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSAou-xugus - Notice almost all the people standing up are supporting and speaking for Ron Paul
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqVhuX6U0z0 - CNN reports Ron Paul winning at the late night Clark County caucus vote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_jfnNnhZE4 - 58% Landslide! Ron Paul Wins Adelson Late-Hour Caucus

There is little doubt that elections for political office should forever and always be on paper ballots counted publicly and never secretly counted or done via computer software.



Follow the Navada Caucus via the most active Journalists (posting almost every minute) on twitter:

https://twitter.com/#!/AnjeanetteDamon (https://twitter.com/#!/AnjeanetteDamon) (Political reporter for Las Vegas Sun)
https://twitter.com/#!/vegasblake (https://twitter.com/#!/vegasblake) (ABC anchor)

Live counting at Google: http://www.google.com/elections/ed/us/results



To round it off:

For all the buffoons eating the fake RP racist propaganda: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fyRVa4lzRo

http://www.facebook.com/pages/African-Americans-For-Ron-Paul/180006005405016
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on February 05, 2012, 10:34:26 pm
I don't mind regulated gun posession, but the idea that it's somehow a check on government tyranny is outdated and just irrelevant.

Pretty much - you'd never have enough determined citizens to put up a proper revolution. Maybe in middle east, but USA is too sophisticated for that. The masses would think everything is fine, no matter what's happening.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Tears of Destiny on February 05, 2012, 10:41:55 pm
Pretty much - you'd never have enough determined citizens to put up a proper revolution. Maybe in middle east, but USA is too sophisticated for that. The masses would think everything is fine, no matter what's happening.

I see you have never been to the South of the states.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Angantyr on February 06, 2012, 12:53:17 am
Fun fact is that the only live publicly transmitted counting of votes (Late night Clark County voting) - Dr. Ron Paul won BIG ->
Not to mention winning as good as all preliminary straw polls..

edit:
And immense popularity at all the republican debates, from audience to fellow candidates to Google statistics in the breaks, even Weazel News now it would seem http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nibWsNmqEao, perhaps due to so many Tea Partiers giving him their vote.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: ArchonAlarion on February 06, 2012, 03:10:02 pm
His libertarianism aside (which is a whole discussion in itself) there's no doubt that Ron Paul is the only high-profile Western politician I know of who speaks directly and honestly about realpolitik/power politics to the voters as if they were actually a real cognitive part of the electoral process and whom so openly embraces the always unpopular but immensively important self-scutiny of the 'blessed homeland'. His perspective on issues such as US foreign policy, domestic corruption, human rights and adherence to international law, is a rare glimpse of sense and morality rarely, if ever, seen so unmarred by hypocracy in modern politics. And issues that with the current World order affects us all.

That his well-founded (and easily fact checked within any given law text, historical record etc.) arguments is an anomaly on the political scene and that a man such as he will never be president is, despite massive popular support which even Fox can't downplay entirely however much they try (see for example the 2011 Republican Presidential Debate), a testimony to the sad state of Western democracy.

Yep.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: ArchonAlarion on February 06, 2012, 03:14:28 pm
I don't mind regulated gun posession, but the idea that it's somehow a check on government tyranny is outdated and just irrelevant.

With regulation it has become irrelevant, but the point was in the mindset anyhow. An armed populace thinks differently of it's rights than an unarmed one.
Title: Re: OCCUPIED Amendment
Post by: Nessaj on February 06, 2012, 04:59:53 pm
All Americanos please do sign and spread the word.

http://www.theoccupiedamendment.org/news/ (http://www.theoccupiedamendment.org/news/)

Quote from: About the OCCUPIED Amendment

The Outlawing Corporate Cash Undermining the Public Interest in our Elections and Democracy (OCCUPIED) Amendment is a constitutional amendment introduced by Congressman Ted Deutch of Florida’s 19th district. See a section-by-section explanation of the OCCUPIED Amendment below.

THE PETITION
I support H. J. Res 90, the OCCUPIED Amendment, to amend the U.S. Constitution to make clear that corporations are not people, that corporations cannot spend money in our elections, that Congress and the States can regulate corporations, and that Congress can limit and require full disclosure of all political contributions and expenditures by all individuals and private entities. By signing my name to this petition, theoccupiedamendment.org may send me email updates on the movement to overturn Citizens United

What You Can Do

1. Please sign this petition to demonstrate the powerful grassroots support behind the Occupy Amendment.

2. Please send your friends and family information about the OCCUPIED Amendment so they can show their support.

3. Please call your elected representatives in Congress and ask them to cosponsor H. J. Res 90, the OCCUPIED Amendment.

Section I. – Corporations are not people.
" The rights protected by the Constitution of the United States are the rights of natural persons and do not extend to for-profit corporations, limited liability companies, or other private entities established for business purposes or to promote business interests under the laws of any state, the United States, or any foreign state."

Explanation: Section I of the OCCUPIED Amendment makes clear that corporations, and entities established to promote the business interests of their member corporations, are not people with inalienable rights enshrined in our Constitution. This section overturns the incorrect assertion in the Supreme Court decision Citizens United that corporations have free speech rights protected by the Constitution and are therefore able to spend unlimited corporate profits in our elections. Section I also denies corporations and other entities established for business purposes the right to claim that worker protections, environmental regulations, and other laws written by the people violate their court-awarded constitutional rights.

Section II. – Corporations can be regulated by people.
" Such corporate and other private entities established under law are subject to regulation by the people through the legislative process so long as such regulations are consistent with the powers of Congress and the States and do not limit the freedom of the press. "

Explanation: Section II simply states that corporations are established in accordance with the laws of the people and they are therefore subject to laws written by the people. Corporations cannot claim they have constitutional protections from laws written by the people to limit pollution, ensure the fair treatment of workers, and safeguard the public.

Section III. – Corporate prohibition in elections.
" Such corporate and other private entities shall be prohibited from making contributions or expenditures in any election of any candidate for public office or upon any ballot measure submitted to a vote of the people. "

Explanation: Section III prohibits business corporations and business associations from using their profits to participate in our elections, whether it is through direct expenditures from their general treasuries or through funding third party groups that air attack ads, influence voters, or electioneer communications. This section slams shut the door opened by Citizens United that enabled our elections to be flooded by corporate campaign spending.

Section IV. – Regulation of all electioneering, contributions, and expenditures by individuals and other entities.
" Congress and the States shall have the power to regulate and set limits on all election contributions and expenditures, including a candidate’s own spending, and to authorize the establishment of political committees to receive, spend, and publicly disclose the sources of those contributions and expenditures. "

Explanation: Section IV strikes back against the argument made in Citizens United that caps on electoral spending and expenditures are unconstitutional. By reaffirming the right of Congress and the States to establish campaign finance laws that require public disclosure, corporations will no longer be able to anonymously funnel cash to third party groups for the purpose of funding malicious attack ads, smear campaigns, and companion Super PACS. Section IV also allows Congress to set limits and require disclosure for any and all political contributions and expenditures by individuals and other private entities. This section allows Congress to end the practice of a few billionaires spending unlimited funds to promote their personal political agendas.

All details available here (http://www.theoccupiedamendment.org/faq/) (FAQ).



This is extremely important. If we can rid politics of the money influence we might make actually make it without a global revolution. All we need is ONE country to lead the way, will it be the US of A? If so then they would once again be admired by the World.

The idea is brilliant: Only citizens should be able to donate to politicians and with a limit. That would mean corporations would lose their grip on politics and even billionaires would be on the same 'level' as every other person. Amazing and simple concept.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Stabby_Dave on February 07, 2012, 03:54:33 pm
Not sure if this has been posted yet but this is fucking amazing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifJG_oFFDK0

Ron Paul is basically Nostradamus.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on February 08, 2012, 09:06:38 am
Not sure if this has been posted yet but this is fucking amazing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifJG_oFFDK0

Ron Paul is basically Nostradamus.

Someone said
Quote
"Some of our moderate Arab allies will be overthrown by Islamic fundamentalists." This quote is matched up to the "Arab Spring." Go to that Wikipedia entry and read "Motivations" section. The Spring was, if anything, moderates overthrowing fundamentalists and dictators, the way I see it. Sure Mubarak, for one, was our ally, but was also a crazy a-hole. I think you need a more specific example, CollectiveCheckup.
an I tend to agree. Even if the arab spring has overthrown USA allies, I do not think it has been devised by the islamic fundamentalists. They very likely helped and tried to use it (and still trying), but the population elected the moderate islamic parties.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Weren on February 08, 2012, 12:55:06 pm
Gold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BagYRDEFvy0&feature=g-u-u&context=G21d4e19FUAAAAAAAKAA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BagYRDEFvy0&feature=g-u-u&context=G21d4e19FUAAAAAAAKAA)
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Ozin on February 08, 2012, 01:03:33 pm
Gold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BagYRDEFvy0&feature=g-u-u&context=G21d4e19FUAAAAAAAKAA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BagYRDEFvy0&feature=g-u-u&context=G21d4e19FUAAAAAAAKAA)
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on February 08, 2012, 01:51:15 pm
With regulation it has become irrelevant, but the point was in the mindset anyhow. An armed populace thinks differently of it's rights than an unarmed one.

No, the point was that the US had no standing army and the state militias were it's first, last and only line of defence. A standing army was seen as a horrible, tyrannical way for the rulers to dominate it's own populace. And the FF hated that. They thought a country should be defended by it's citizens, not by paid mercenaries.

Oh and how does an armed populace think differently of it's rights? Not quite sure what you mean here. "Unarmed" populaces are filled with easily manipulated subvervient sheep, "armed" ones aren't? So how did the US get so many "anti-constitutional" laws then? Where was the armed popular uprising from the average man against Federal tyranny?
 The closest thing was the Civil War, but how was that not a war between two governments, with two standing armies(not even going to get into the reasons for the war, really tired of revisionists going "It was about State's Rights, not Slavery!")? Did weapon ownership among civilians have ANY effect whatsoever on that war?
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on February 09, 2012, 06:41:58 pm
I doubt Syrian people were allowed to possess firearms, and now they have a few AK's against tanks and artillery :s

At least buying a rocket launcher or two, with attack choppers and shit shouldn't be too hard, for this "anti-tyranny" thing to have a chance in the modern era.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Rikthor on February 09, 2012, 07:02:18 pm
Bunch of socialists and poor people up in this thread. Makes me feel dirty just reading it.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: ArchonAlarion on February 09, 2012, 07:57:21 pm
No, the point was that the US had no standing army and the state militias were it's first, last and only line of defence. A standing army was seen as a horrible, tyrannical way for the rulers to dominate it's own populace. And the FF hated that. They thought a country should be defended by it's citizens, not by paid mercenaries.

Right. That being said, I agree with the sentiments of the founding fathers here. Also, ownership of firearms is relevant in the realm of protection against non-government criminals. We can have a statistics/common-sense battle over that if you want.

Quote
Oh and how does an armed populace think differently of it's rights? Not quite sure what you mean here. "Unarmed" populaces are filled with easily manipulated subvervient sheep, "armed" ones aren't? So how did the US get so many "anti-constitutional" laws then? Where was the armed popular uprising from the average man against Federal tyranny?

Could the state have gotten away with more with an unarmed populace? Not sure. I think incremental changes (however significant over the long term) will always be easy to get away with without widespread intellectual dissent. I see your point though.

Quote
The closest thing was the Civil War, but how was that not a war between two governments, with two standing armies(not even going to get into the reasons for the war, really tired of revisionists going "It was about State's Rights, not Slavery!")? Did weapon ownership among civilians have ANY effect whatsoever on that war?

I don't think the civil war is relevant because it was a war between two governments with standing armies.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on February 09, 2012, 08:24:42 pm
Right. That being said, I agree with the sentiments of the founding fathers here. Also, ownership of firearms is relevant in the realm of protection against non-government criminals. We can have a statistics/common-sense battle over that if you want.

Nope I pretty much agree with that, which is why I have no problem with regulated firearms. It makes it easier for criminals to have access to guns as well, but criminals would have access to them anyways, since, yknow, they have a tendency to not follow the law. I just get snarky at people who bring up the argument that the 2nd was made with stopping government tyranny in mind, which it kind of was but only if you take it with the context of no standing army, something that even Ron Paul wouldn't advocate.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on February 09, 2012, 08:56:46 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login




visitors can't see pics , please register or login




visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Angantyr on February 09, 2012, 11:05:51 pm
2012 Presidential Candidate Fundraising Summary (http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/index.php)
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on February 11, 2012, 01:27:35 pm
Why Ron Paul is actually winning the Republican Front Runner Candidacy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OkN2npJR-4) (msnbc)
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Angantyr on February 11, 2012, 03:25:07 pm
For once I feel those backdoors in democracy should stay open.

Another good report by Rachel Maddow.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on February 12, 2012, 01:48:32 am
Ha ha they're scared now, FOX even "out of nowhere" shut down Judge Napolitano's Freedom Watch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqo6X-ZCa0s) - despite being a prime time and well watched show.
Quote
"Fox business network is dropping three of their primetime shows, one including the top-rated show "Freedom watch" hosted by Judge Napolitano. Judge Napolitano covers topics from Occupy Wall street, to the National authorization act, he has been consistently pro-Ron Paul and anti-war."

You ANTI WAR and PRO FREEDOM? What you doing on TV!

Fox closes Freedom Watch with Judge Napolitano (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqo6X-ZCa0s) (RT America)



Some clips from the latest shows:

Freedom Watch: State Powers & Federal Bribes - Judge Andrew Napolitano (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSHvYJ0yyTo&hd=1) (2012-01-26)
Freedom Watch: Can Secret Stimulus Help? Anthony Randazzo, Sandra Smith & Lynn Parramore - Napolitano (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8wOV97ysBo&hd=1) (2012-01-26)
Freedom Watch: Only Man in Touch with Reality is Ron Paul" - Army Col. Douglas Macgregor on Judge Andrew Napolitano (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg2vgfPopVU&hd=1) (2012-01-26)
Freedom Watch: EPA Bans Hot Dogs, Cops Mace 200+ Kids, Ron Paul Liberty Dollar - Judge Napolitano (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT82nYT9aPc&hd=1) (2012-01-26)
Freedom Watch: Former CIA Chief Michael Scheuer says only Ron Paul has a Foreign Policy to Defend U.S. National Security Interests - Napolitano (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_JaXZqMqck&hd=1) (2012-01-18)
Freedom Watch: Who Owns Your Labor & Income? - Judge Andrew Napolitano (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wePDdLcs0Z4&hd=1) (2012-01-17)
Freedom Watch: Warrant-less Raids - Mossad/CIA in Pakistan - SOPA - Peter Suderman - Judge Napolitano (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCwbbwpP56M&hd=1) (2012-01-17)
Freedom Watch: A World Without Income Tax - Steve Moore on Ron Paul - Judge Andrew Napolitano (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSGwjNFbvtU&hd=1) (2012-01-17)
Freedom Watch: Ron Paul Stands For You! - Huffines Super Pack Ads - Judge Napolitano (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agtHkREX_5w&hd=1) (2012-01-17)
Freedom Watch: DAA, Warrant-less K9 Searches, 8 Years Without Trial - Judge Andrew Napolitano (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79pYYRMvGjQ&hd=1) (2012-01-04)

It's easy to find more clips but as seen above this was quite the interesting show, definitely one that should have stayed on the air.


Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Christo on February 12, 2012, 05:17:50 am
FOX is just ridiculous.

Me as an outsider, just find it that.  :lol:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


The famous picture, for an example. lol

 :lol:
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on February 12, 2012, 06:08:42 am
Nessaj is a shameless lobbyist. Too bad his Illuminati pals won't be elected by proud Americans so long as the Eagle is held high and freedom remains! Say no to Ron Paul, say no to oppression and tyranny!
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on February 12, 2012, 01:20:48 pm
Nessaj is a shameless lobbyist. Too bad his Illuminati pals won't be elected by proud Americans so long as the Eagle is held high and freedom remains! Say no to Ron Paul, say no to oppression and tyranny!

Here's a video from our latest winter camp event: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7TPRqEjS6I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7TPRqEjS6I)

Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Bobthehero on February 13, 2012, 02:15:10 am
That video fits suprinsgly well with the beggining of American Psycho by tthe Misfits.

Oh and joining NWO and Illimunatiwhateveristan nets you dancing chicks? Where do I apply.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Ozin on February 13, 2012, 05:37:04 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


^^
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Angantyr on February 13, 2012, 06:30:37 pm
Chickenhawks.

Literally all the worst hawks in US history never served themselves (nor did their children).
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on February 13, 2012, 06:46:42 pm
Chickenhawks.

Literally all the worst hawks in US history never served themselves (nor did their children).

War is sweet to those that never have experienced it.
-Pindar
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on February 13, 2012, 08:37:54 pm
Americans love to fight. All real Americans love the sting of battle.
- George S. Patton
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Christo on February 13, 2012, 09:44:55 pm
- George S. Patton

Patton was quite the extremity, I'd say.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on February 13, 2012, 10:27:51 pm
So was Pindar.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on February 14, 2012, 11:48:14 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


This guy just can't catch a break :mrgreen:
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Siiem on February 14, 2012, 11:52:36 am
Americans love to fight. All real Americans love the sting of battle.
- George S. Patton

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lng7iFzSVGI

Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on February 14, 2012, 09:40:08 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTs6a0ORdQU
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Siiem on February 14, 2012, 09:42:10 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTs6a0ORdQU

Touché
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on February 14, 2012, 10:23:56 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVjurb-mZdM > Yours
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on February 15, 2012, 04:45:37 am
The Unit was an excellent TV show. Most of the time. Went downhill a bit and it had some really fucking stupid episodes (two, I think) that made no sense - like the unit sergeant fighting in an imaginary monastery. Someone let the religious nuts wild with the script that time, apparently. First season was best.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on February 15, 2012, 10:03:46 pm
Indeed it was Whiplash.

Now watch this drive...

Rampant voter fraud in Maine! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXZt_nrQsvg) (WXIX)

Quite an interesting news report.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on February 15, 2012, 10:19:28 pm
“It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we could grow too fond of it.”

I think it's from Lee.


Now with modern era weapons like fighter drones, stealth bombers and missiles, war isn't that terrible anymore. Or at least, there is a part of what is inarguably war, that can be showed without being horrible. Say, the day of fire over Bagdad. I remember very clearly seeing something vaguely called war on TV, but the show was more about fireworks.

Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Leshma on February 15, 2012, 10:26:28 pm
You don't know what war truly is until you experience it with your own eyes.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on February 15, 2012, 10:26:42 pm
“It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we could grow too fond of it.”

I think it's from Lee.


Now with modern era weapons like fighter drones, stealth bombers and missiles, war isn't that terrible anymore. Or at least, there is a part of what is inarguably war, that can be showed without being horrible. Say, the day of fire over Bagdad. I remember very clearly seeing something vaguely called war on TV, but the show was more about fireworks.

Enemy Image - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0485898/

"An examination of the how television news in the US has covered war from Vietnam to the present day."

Watch it here (http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/enemy-image/).
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Angantyr on February 15, 2012, 11:45:59 pm
Yes, it's really good, should be mandatory in any Western high school curriculum.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on February 15, 2012, 11:51:16 pm
This one is brilliant :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoaTizBCemc
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on February 18, 2012, 11:55:10 pm
If You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQs5hoHW_Qc&hd=1)

Quote
Learn why (edit: former) CIA and active duty military overwhelmingly support Ron Paul's foreign policy of non-interventionism. Versions of this video have been seen by millions of Americans and it has been proven to compel nearly half of undecided voters who watch it to support Ron Paul. Please share this video with everyone you know. Support our troops. Support Ron Paul. Thank you for joining in this movement and fighting for the cause of liberty.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: SixThumbs on February 19, 2012, 12:21:33 am
I appreciate all this Nessaj, I'm assuming you're not from the US but you seem to be more informed about it then those of us who live here.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on February 19, 2012, 02:15:20 pm
I appreciate all this Nessaj, I'm assuming you're not from the US but you seem to be more informed about it then those of us who live here.

I'm no stranger or uneducated to and in Politics IRL though :wink: and since the USA leads the rest of the World it is up to everyone to get involved to have a proper President elected, probably not since JFK have there been a more honest politician with a chance for the oval office. I feel that everyone who is for liberty and freedom should promote Ron Paul at every possibility, big or small gestures, because the mainstream media and politicians all frown upon him (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toyxCYm292A) so openly and obviously, even in Europe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=toyxCYm292A#t=307s) (BBC) you have clear-cut examples of Ron Paul purposely not being mentioned in terms of the presidential nominee race, and otherwise diminished at every turn possible. Therefore no one knows the truth or the full picture because it is not being presented to us on TV and unfortunately people still put all their faith in the evening news. See this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=toyxCYm292A#t=307s) (same link as the others above) for absolute proof of global media manipulation.

For Liberty Re-cut - Ron Paul 2012 Handout DVD HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR4WYqabTxU&hd=1) (Runtime: ~60 minutes)

Quote from: For Liberty Re-cut
Visit http://ronpaulfilm.com to order this DVD in bulk quantities!

In late 2009 we released a feature-length grassroots documentary entitled, "For Liberty: How the Ron Paul R3volution Watered the Withered Tree of Liberty". Since then, we've been inundated with positive feedback from people all over the world who have viewed the film, and were inspired by Ron Paul's message of Freedom and Liberty. As independent filmmakers, we've been humbled by the response.

Soon after Ron Paul announced his new 2012 Presidential campaign on May 13th, 2011, we decided if we could shorten our original 120 minute film to just under 60 minutes, that it would make an excellent handout DVD to educate people about Ron Paul during his 2012 campaign.

We produced a 55 minute re-cut and posted it to RonPaulForums to be viewed, vetted and critiqued. Not long after, we debuted an updated version, which included a brand new 5 minute Addendum edit at the end featuring new exclusive commentary by Jack Hunter. The Addendum carries the viewer past the end of the 2008 campaign and through some of the successes Ron Paul & the Liberty Movement have had throughout 2008-2011.

With an updated subtitle, we completely re-designed the DVD's packaging and artwork into an informative literature piece in itself, and feel we've crafted the perfect Ron Paul 2012 presidential campaign handout piece. The best part is people can get them at a discounted price and in bulk quantities right here on this site.

The For Liberty 2012 Re-cut is packaged in a beautiful full-color 4 panel Wallet Sleeve, with each piece individually shrink-wrapped making for the perfect handout for rallies, fairs, when going door to door with literature about Ron Paul, and more.

Anyone who views the film will definitely take a 2nd look at Ron Paul in the upcoming straw polls, caucuses, and primaries.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Oberyn on February 19, 2012, 03:49:45 pm
I'd love to be able to find some Ron Paul speeches without ridiculous soundtracks or atmospheric movie music added to it, if you got links for those.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on February 19, 2012, 05:30:48 pm
I'd love to be able to find some Ron Paul speeches without ridiculous soundtracks or atmospheric movie music added to it, if you got links for those.

Yes please. I can't believe 'mericans stand listening to that-typical-bad-action-movie-ad-soundtrack during electoral campaigns like this.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on February 20, 2012, 01:23:50 pm
That's quite a general problem with videos though and even a lot of documentaries today overuse music as well.

I personally prefer no music because it can and almost always does steer emotions in one way or another. Hopefully people will outgrow it some day.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Xant on February 20, 2012, 04:29:57 pm
Yes, your fragile emotional balance is broken easily.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Nessaj on February 21, 2012, 02:31:03 am
Have to post this video Santorum Nostalgic for Abortions "in the Shadows," Warns of Euthanasia Increase  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn-eejMcmuA) - how can anyone ever vote for that man?

also Veteran's march:

The World is Endorsing Ron Paul For President 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jbTxbY6-Oo) (has -.- background music)
Veterans For Ron Paul - March on D.C. and the White House on President's Day 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsSGTnYfsFM)
Today February 20, 2012 (Live Coverage 2) Veterans March for Ron Paul (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHhoq_qh-Qg)
Today February 20, 2012 (Live Coverage 3) Veterans March for Ron Paul (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ2tfH85KKk)
Establishment Media Ignores Massive Ron Paul Veterans March (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOJIwiSrq3M&hd=1)
American soldiers are waking up to a lie (Veteran March Feb. 20th 2012) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Pm7OwV5r54)
Troops March on White House for Ron Paul (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7M21JlBM78)

The Veterans march sends an extremely strong political message. The top brass actively tried to discourage people (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs7QRSZHIsw) to not go to the demonstration and yet so many showed even in uniform.

Ron Paul's Media Technical Issues Censorship - Operation Mockingbird? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyixR66CQMw) (Excellent compilation)



You (still) think Ron Paul is a racist and/or have ties to white supremacy groups?

The Compassion of Dr. Ron Paul (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4)

Quote
James Williams of Matagorda County, Texas recounts a touching true story. Living in a still prejudiced Texas In 1972, his wife had a complication with her pregnancy. No doctors would care for her or deliver their bi-racial child. In fact one of the hospital nurses called the police on James.

Dr. Ron Paul was notified and took her in, delivering their stillborn baby. Because of the compassion of Dr. Ron Paul, the Williams' never received a hospital bill for the delivery.

Ron Paul Reacts to "Compassion Ad" on CSPAN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4bEvqMXmM8)
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Gomer on February 28, 2012, 05:50:42 am
Hahahaha Caucuses


But honestly I just want some none Liberal non-fuck tard in the house. Us republicans lost respect with Bush and we need to earn it back. Sadly this year candidate pool is one of the worst I have ever seen. Makes Obama look good.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on February 28, 2012, 08:36:04 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZuZShxJq8M

Imagine Romney as Commander, Gingritch as Butch and Santorum as Dick. Really fitting.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Angantyr on February 28, 2012, 09:08:02 pm
 :lol:

Rockstar has a knack for cultural references.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Gomer on February 29, 2012, 01:14:42 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI)
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: PieParadox on February 29, 2012, 07:05:09 am
We must vote for Vermin Supreme.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFXXAuDK1Ao (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFXXAuDK1Ao)

Watch it... One of the most brilliant candidates you will ever see. He's actually "running" for President... while wearing a boot on his head. Skip to 2:50 for quick lulz
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Kafein on February 29, 2012, 01:02:20 pm
Free ponies ftw.
Title: Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on May 03, 2012, 12:46:19 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UQMtlah4Iec (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UQMtlah4Iec)