A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America

[Christo]

Theres 2 million people in Norway, you can't compare with a country like the USA. And this one guy you've got, its the worst recorded in human history. Seems he got his guns somewhere.

I'm sure not.

There are way more deaths by one man, if you do some research on war casualties for an example.

Just imagine a machine gunner, or somebody who just bombed a city to ashes.

I know we're talking about civilians here, you could find similar terrorist actions that ended up with more people dead.
Yeah, feels a bit weird to talk about death like that. Just had to counter.

[iron_mat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spree_killer

He's number 1 on there.

[Angantyr]

You're dumb, you probably think the right to own weapons is for shooting bunnies or something. If it wasn't for guns, the country might still have a monarch, like you guys do in Europe?

We've had our democratic revolutions here, mind you (in some countries without violence even), and our constitutional monarchies are just that, 'constitutional' - they have no rights or power over government whatsoever. I was aware american high school- and college history curriculum was etnocentric but are you sure you haven't learned this in school (serious question, not a jape)?

Concerning your proposed thesis about an armed population as a deterrent for government tyranny it completely ignores how modern war is conducted, for example by the US military; long-range artillery, attack helicopters, bombers, fighter jets, tanks, biological warfare, depleted uranium, white phosphorus, nukes. This is not 18th century revolutionary America anymore, the rules of the ('democratic') game has changed substantially.

[Christo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spree_killer

He's number 1 on there.

Well, you said "in human history"

Not among these "modern era" spree killers.

That's totally different, then.

Anway, if we're really bragging about statistics, then look up some school massacres, and count how many happened in the U.S, compared to other countries. It's not something I'd be proud of.

[iron_mat]

Well, Arganthyr, just look at Afghanistan and Vietnam. If they don't nuke these countries, they're not likely to bomb America, so I would say you are wrong, this is guerrila era and the 2ed amendment makes even more sense today than back then.

I don't really care if they got monarchs in europe, I like europe and it's cool. But the other guy said we swear on the bible, I'd rather have the president swear on the bible than bow before some king, that's just me... I'm not going to call you backward.

[Blondin]

I might show some primary anti-americanism but you are showing some primary ignorance, awesome, I thank you to be a living proof of what i'm saying.

[Angantyr]

Well, Arganthyr, just look at Afghanistan and Vietnam. If they don't nuke these countries, they're not likely to bomb America, so I would say you are wrong, this is guerrila era and the 2ed amendment makes even more sense today than back then.

It's a fair argument and we are definitely living in the guerilla age but certainly the case would be very different if the lives of those with access to nuclear armaments were suddenly endangered, as we might imagine during a revolt.

But the point still stands without nukes; handguns simply just won't be effective against the WMD's and killing machines of a modern army.


Edit:
Though of course it may be argued that an armed population will make it a much bloodier and dramatic affair for a government to subdue its people meaning an increased effort must be done in regards to propaganda so as to not invoke an international outrage. Though these things are not a problem really if you have powerful friends, Israel, Syria, South Africa and Tibet as cases in point.

[Xant]

If there is a mass-scale revolt, they're not just going to use WMDs on their own country. Handguns are very effective, and would be enough to topple a government - provided a very large percentage of the citizens are determined and pro-revolutionary.

A pistol won't do much against a tank, but how are you going to rule a country where majority of the populace hates your guts and is going to shoot any law enforcers and soldiers on the streets (from among the "faithful" civilians, too)? You aren't, especially considering a good chunk of the police and armed forces would hop sides. It wouldn't be a "okay, revolutionary guys stand on that open field there with your handguns, pro-government forces stand on that open field with your war machines and disciplined troops. Fight!"

[Oberyn]

I don't mind regulated gun posession, but the idea that it's somehow a check on government tyranny is outdated and just irrelevant.

[Nessaj]

More evidence of voter fraud. It would seem that the biggest issue is how seemingly way more "persons" cast a vote than there were actual voters signing in.
Once again as in the other states whole precincts won't have their votes counted.

Fun fact is that the only live publicly transmitted counting of votes (Late night Clark County voting) - Dr. Ron Paul won BIG -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7Ug1jdERZw :

Adelson Caucus Results (Clark County, Nevada)
Paul 58% (183 votes)
Romney 19% (61 votes)
Gingrich 18% (57 votes)
Santorum 5% (16 votes)
None (1 vote)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Now of course that specific voting session is being scrutinized and accused of foul play, even though it was public on a live feed, yet no one questions the election software or any of the other actual red flags. No, the one single voting count that wasn't secret, where the ballots was counted on live TV, yes of course that is the corrupt one. Makes sense - or wait... They're even accusing Ron Paul supporters of foul play here...

MSM also had no problem announcing Romney as the winner with as little as 3% counted in some precincts.

More from the Nevada Caucus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSAou-xugus - Notice almost all the people standing up are supporting and speaking for Ron Paul
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqVhuX6U0z0 - CNN reports Ron Paul winning at the late night Clark County caucus vote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_jfnNnhZE4 - 58% Landslide! Ron Paul Wins Adelson Late-Hour Caucus

There is little doubt that elections for political office should forever and always be on paper ballots counted publicly and never secretly counted or done via computer software.


Follow the Navada Caucus via the most active Journalists (posting almost every minute) on twitter:

https://twitter.com/#!/AnjeanetteDamon (Political reporter for Las Vegas Sun)
https://twitter.com/#!/vegasblake (ABC anchor)

Live counting at Google: http://www.google.com/elections/ed/us/results


To round it off:

For all the buffoons eating the fake RP racist propaganda: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fyRVa4lzRo

http://www.facebook.com/pages/African-Americans-For-Ron-Paul/180006005405016

[Xant]

I don't mind regulated gun posession, but the idea that it's somehow a check on government tyranny is outdated and just irrelevant.

Pretty much - you'd never have enough determined citizens to put up a proper revolution. Maybe in middle east, but USA is too sophisticated for that. The masses would think everything is fine, no matter what's happening.

[Tears of Destiny]

Pretty much - you'd never have enough determined citizens to put up a proper revolution. Maybe in middle east, but USA is too sophisticated for that. The masses would think everything is fine, no matter what's happening.

I see you have never been to the South of the states.

[Angantyr]

Fun fact is that the only live publicly transmitted counting of votes (Late night Clark County voting) - Dr. Ron Paul won BIG ->

Not to mention winning as good as all preliminary straw polls..

edit:
And immense popularity at all the republican debates, from audience to fellow candidates to Google statistics in the breaks, even Weazel News now it would seem http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nibWsNmqEao, perhaps due to so many Tea Partiers giving him their vote.

[ArchonAlarion]

His libertarianism aside (which is a whole discussion in itself) there's no doubt that Ron Paul is the only high-profile Western politician I know of who speaks directly and honestly about realpolitik/power politics to the voters as if they were actually a real cognitive part of the electoral process and whom so openly embraces the always unpopular but immensively important self-scutiny of the 'blessed homeland'. His perspective on issues such as US foreign policy, domestic corruption, human rights and adherence to international law, is a rare glimpse of sense and morality rarely, if ever, seen so unmarred by hypocracy in modern politics. And issues that with the current World order affects us all.

That his well-founded (and easily fact checked within any given law text, historical record etc.) arguments is an anomaly on the political scene and that a man such as he will never be president is, despite massive popular support which even Fox can't downplay entirely however much they try (see for example the 2011 Republican Presidential Debate), a testimony to the sad state of Western democracy.

Yep.

[ArchonAlarion]

I don't mind regulated gun posession, but the idea that it's somehow a check on government tyranny is outdated and just irrelevant.

With regulation it has become irrelevant, but the point was in the mindset anyhow. An armed populace thinks differently of it's rights than an unarmed one.