Cav are already powerful even if they don't win 100% on a charge against aware opponents. I almost stopped reading your post when you said that cav should just beat 1h effortlessly, especially since lance cav already do very well against 1h.
You also have to view from the infantry's perspective. Every time they hear a horse drawing near, they have to confirm whether that person is friend or foe and whether or not he is the target. In addition, the sound of the horse doesn't always equate to how close that unit is to attacking you accurately. What I'm getting at is that often times, cav is capable of getting the attack initiative on opponents. Cavalry units are already essential and viable classes imo.
I wouldn't mind a small increase in the angle, but is there any justification since lancer cav still seems pretty dang effective?
I see a player who fails to adjust and wants to rape noobs like does in native, effortlessly. Just learn to adapt and learn tricks for crpg cav instead of whining over the difference. crpg cav is fine and should be nerfed compared to native, considering the lower rate of fire of archers and xbowmen
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crpg cav is fine and should be nerfed compared to native, considering the lower rate of fire of archers and xbowmen
One of the most important factors is cav vs cav combat. In Native, I nearly unstoppable, and I can take on entire teams of less skilled cav players by myself. In Native, the more skilled player with superior timing wins.
In CRPG, whoever gets on another person's 6 O'clock usually win's the fight. The low degree of view that lances have significantly lowers the skill gap between two cav players. In Native, I would win 100% of my head on charges due to superior timing, and utilizing a perfect thrust angle so that my lance hits him before his lance hits me. In CRPG, there won't be much of a difference between a great cav player, and an average one.
We used to think that lancers should get some angle back at some point but then we took an arrow in the k/d rating. Means lancers are strong, don't need buff imo.
Edit: I have 2 lancers, one dedicated and one hybrid(main). Also I got a 1h cav, HA and HC. So I think I got an idea about cav strength.
Nice troll.Cav underpowered.lol.
...
Didn't you say you'll keep it short? What is long for you? O.o
First: This is crpg, not native. Got it? crpg is totally different compared to native and it's good, that it is. Crpg is far from being realistic, but it's at least closer to it. Further crpg is alot more balanced than native. Who cares about the fact, that you can kill everyone in native when you play cav?
Ever played archer on native? Totally ridiculous, but that's why it's different here in crpg. Now guess why cav is different here ;)
Cav is a very strong class and quite balanced atm
I agree, that the angle of the lance is too small, but if you want to, we can open the pot, which contains all the things, that are too strong with cav^.^
Why for now? Because some other classes need to be looked at and our devs can't do everything at once
Cav is fine for now.
And yes, I know how playing cav is. I have a cavchar myself. Not really my playstyle, but it's fine for now.
I'm sorry, but I stopped reading when you said "CRPG is alot more balanced than Native". I can't even tell if you are being serious or not.
Basically, what torben said. Lancing in native and crpg are two different things. adapt, we all did
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Just because we are able to adapt to things does not make them right.
As I said, cav vs cav battles are now terrible due to the lance nerf. It seems like a few people agree with me on that point.
I will say it again, increasing the degrees of turn on the lance will only allow skilled cav players to be truly rewarded. Bad one's will still die.
Furthurmore, it is completely rediculous that a 2Hander can effortlessly take down a charging horse with either a thrust or an incredibly stupid and unrealistic jump slash.
If you tried to thrust your sword into a charging horse, you would get royally fucked up. As for jump lashing a rider out of his saddle, that would require superhuman reflexes to time correctly (Meh, some highly trained martial artists might be able to pull off this first requirement). The second requirement however, is superhuman strength. That is, unless you want your arms to get ripped out of their sockets and you're neck snapped by the impact of a 1200 pound horse galloping at 40mph.
Yes horses were very OP in RL.
Yes horses are OP in Native.
That doesn't somehow justify them being OP here.
And it's easy to see just by looking at the scoreboard that there are good and bad cav here - the same people consistently top the scores.
Ever considered that you may not be the best cav player in the world and that people here may actually be better than you?
Once again, you clearly did not read the part where I clearly stated that I DON'T want cav to be buffed to Native standards. Just a little increase on the lance degree, that's all. You, as well as others, are taking my post to the extreme's and putting words into my mouth.The lovely fella is dedicated infantry. SNM. :mrgreen:
And guess what? "Better" or "Worse" hardly means anything for cav players in CRPG. I take it that you enjoy 1 dementional cav battles where the player who gets on you're 6 0 Clock wins, and the factors determining the winner of a lance on lance charge is far more random and less skill based than it is in native?
Hmm.
And guess what? "Better" or "Worse" hardly means anything for cav players in CRPG. I take it that you enjoy 1 dementional cav battles where the player who gets on you're 6 0 Clock wins, and the factors determining the winner of a lance on lance charge is far more random and less skill based than it is in native?
Hmm.
I'm sorry, but I stopped reading when you said "CRPG is alot more balanced than Native". I can't even tell if you are being serious or not.
Once again, you clearly did not read the part where I clearly stated that I DON'T want cav to be buffed to Native standards. Just a little increase on the lance degree, that's all. You, as well as others, are taking my post to the extreme's and putting words into my mouth.
And guess what? "Better" or "Worse" hardly means anything for cav players in CRPG. I take it that you enjoy 1 dementional cav battles where the player who gets on you're 6 0 Clock wins, and the factors determining the winner of a lance on lance charge is far more random and less skill based than it is in native?
Hmm.
Slightly offtopic but whenever I try being a lancer in CRPG I get my ass kicked in cav vs cav duels. I feel like the lance thrusting animation and the moment where it actually hits are off. I have no idea when to actually stab, it seems very unpredictable. In native I got the hang of the timing quite quickly and rarely ever lost a cav vs cav head on charge. Here it feels a bit like Russian Roulette.
on head on charges lots of people play with different factors to make your stab off time, maneuver, speed and release time to mention some, thats what makes the arrab immensely strong vs other cav
You get that even noob 2h often kill skilled lancersI think you mean that good 2h often kill noob lancers. Even I with 400 hours of Greatsword experience see a cav vs stab duel as a scary thing. Missing, or just hitting the horse mostly means death. I see that a lot of cav mess up their timing when you pretend that you are unaware and that is what makes me kill quite some cav.
Even I with 400 hours of Greatsword experience see a cav vs stab duel as a scary thing. Missing, or just hitting the horse mostly means death. I see that a lot of cav mess up their timing when you pretend that you are unaware and that is what makes me kill quite some cav.
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I always think its strange that a MW German stab doesn't kill a Courser with 100 hitpoints and 18 body armor, but a MW heavy lance does kill me, with 63 hitpoints and 60 body armor, 48 head armor.
I heard that slow weapons (heavy lance speed is 73) benefit more from speed bonus. In native singleplayer it was possible to receive 500% speed bonus with lances.
Who didn't read what?
You spoke of realism - I thought that was bullshit.
I never spoke about to what degree to buff cav, you just assumed that I assumed that you wanted cav to be buffed to native standards which was NOT AT ALL what I was trying to say. My point was that playing cav is harder here, but far from UP, and that's it's a different game that you'll just have to learn. Besides - messing with the lance angle would require work with the clientside WSE. (Right now, it uses the couch angle) I'm not sure how much, but I'm guessing quite a bit judging from dev behaviour in the past.
And about these "one-dimensional" cav battles:
I've played some cav in native and a little here as well. And personally I find the cav battles here to hold greater depth since maneuvering your entire horse into proper positioning requires a hell of a lot more effort, planning and, well *skill* than simply putting the lance behind you and letting go at the right time. (Over-simplification I know, but seriously; In native I always use the same turn-to-the-side big sweeping lance attack that kills just about anyone) You talk about someone "getting on your 6 o' clock" like it's something that just happens. It is not, that player has obviously outmaneuvered you. (Also there are some very effective techniques that can be used to get out of that situation, frequently employed by the top cav players)
And how is it more "random" in c-rpg than in native then? Sure here there might be situations were you are already fucked and can't remedy it in the last second with a turn around and good lance timing (but honestly, this "timing" game is what really made me stop playing cav, since its on the same level as archery when it comes to how dull, simple, and bland it is imo.), but that only speaks to me as a sign of increased depth of cav combat. It now requires you to think a little ahead.
And I find it funny that you just dismiss the skill of the entire cav-community here. As I told you, the same cav players consistently top the scores - you think that's for nothing?
If you'd come here (well, and show that you at least know what you're doing) and then complain that you feel restricted in your lance usage - fine that sounds like a reasonable complaint.
But coming here and going "I get beaten here, cav must take no skill since I'm bestest cav evah!!11" and then continuing by dismissing our entire cav community and along the way spewing BULLSHIT such as that cav should beat 1h and 2h "effortlessly" is just stupid imo.
In Native, if someone got on your 6 O clock and you were the superior player, you could out maneuver them and turn the tables, in CRPG when you have a guy chasing you and you try to out maneuver him in anyway, you'd get a lance to the face due to the limitations of the game mechanics. You can't do shit besides run to you're teamates and hope that he gives up on the chase. Skill hardly means anything in cav vs cav battles anymore.This is the only part of the angle change that I miss, but even stating this, I have multiple times won against 4 or more cav by myself. It's much harder to do now and you always have to utilize terrain to do so. I think because of this, the skill curve was actually raised even higher.
Something that I find frustrating about lancers as an infantryman isn't really the angle, I was able to dodge lances before the nerf and can still do it now, what does get me is the damage the lances to despite a very slow pace, I've often been killed in 1 hit by a stationary horseman with a lance, the lance uses a one handed attack which at close range shouldn't do a great deal of damage particularly when I'm right next to the guy, I'd rather an increase in speed bonus for lances and a lowered general damage so to one shot infantry you actually have to be riding at pace which is what lances should really be used for, not im gonna walk up to this guy and poke him.
Something that I find frustrating about lancers as an infantryman isn't really the angle, I was able to dodge lances before the nerf and can still do it now, what does get me is the damage the lances to despite a very slow pace, I've often been killed in 1 hit by a stationary horseman with a lance, the lance uses a one handed attack which at close range shouldn't do a great deal of damage particularly when I'm right next to the guy, I'd rather an increase in speed bonus for lances and a lowered general damage so to one shot infantry you actually have to be riding at pace which is what lances should really be used for, not im gonna walk up to this guy and poke him.Yeah this looks ridiculous. The thing moves dirt slow but when it hits you you lose a shitton of hitpoints.
Cav battles here hold a greater depth? The only depth involved is making sure you are facing towards the enemy horse, or as close as possible, as you said yourself. I don't know how much more obvious it can get; If the lance is allowed more degree's of movement, it simply opens up more options, and widens the skill gap between player's. Nerfing lance movement would be like taking away a thrust, right, and left swing from infantry and only allowing them to use overheads.
As for enemies getting on my 6, yes, I can avoid such a situation through superior maneuvering.
But when your riding a rouncey, and you have an entire squad of agility pumping courser's feening on your ass from every direction, it become's somewhat impossible to counter them all without receiving a lance to the face. If the lance view was buffed, a skilled player being chased from all directions would have a CHANCE to still win the battle, even if it's a slight chance, it opens up gameplay. As it is right now, if you are in that situation, you are screwed unless you run into your infantry and hope they give up the chase.
You really need to stop putting words into my mouth, once again. I never said anything close to what you quoted me of saying. I simply said that the game mechanics have lessoned the skill gap in cav vs cav battles. Please explain sir, how is that in anyway "dismissing the skill of our cav community". Talk about SPEWING BULLSHIT.
In Native, the good cav do good, and bad cav do bad, unlike in CRPG where they are practically the same.
Lastly, As it is right now, 2Handers beat charging horses effortlessly with rediculous superhuman ninja jump swings. I guess you don't mind, do you?
Something that I find frustrating about lancers as an infantryman isn't really the angle, I was able to dodge lances before the nerf and can still do it now, what does get me is the damage the lances to despite a very slow pace, I've often been killed in 1 hit by a stationary horseman with a lance, the lance uses a one handed attack which at close range shouldn't do a great deal of damage particularly when I'm right next to the guy, I'd rather an increase in speed bonus for lances and a lowered general damage so to one shot infantry you actually have to be riding at pace which is what lances should really be used for, not im gonna walk up to this guy and poke him.
I can get out of someones 6 even several peoples 6 without much work at all, obviously depends what horses you are being chased by.
But when your riding a rouncey, and you have an entire squad of agility pumping courser's feening on your ass from every direction, it become's somewhat impossible to counter them all without receiving a lance to the face. If the lance view was buffed, a skilled player being chased from all directions would have a CHANCE to still win the battle, even if it's a slight chance, it opens up gameplay. As it is right now, if you are in that situation, you are screwed unless you run into your infantry and hope they give up the chase.
I'm sorry, but I stopped reading when you said "CRPG is alot more balanced than Native". I can't even tell if you are being serious or not.
In Native, the good cav do good, and bad cav do bad, unlike in CRPG where they are practically the same.
hm, an awlpike to my face in a stationary position does about the same amount of damage, dont see the problem here... would like a faster lance tho.Funnily enough I also dislike the awlpike for that exact reason. :lol:
Haha o this made me laugh. Go and watch the good crpg cav for a few maps and then come back and say that.
Well, in the same sense I could say that the only depth involved in native lancing is facing your lance towards the enemy and letting go at the right time. Which is considerably easier than making sure your entire horse is in a proper position. And no, opening up more options does not equate widening the skill gap, since native lancing is frankly, imo, OP and easymode as hell. It'd be like adding a totally OP melee weapon to the selection. More options? Yeah. Magical skill gap increase? No. Not to mention that you'd almost completely kill off 1h and 2h cav as playstyles. In c-rpg they are still at a disadvantage when fighting lancers, but not completely helpless at all.
Then do it? First you say that getting on someone's 6 is autowin (bullshit), but now all of a sudden you can remedy it? And if you need to outmaneuver as well as time the lance then doesn't that make for a greater skill gap? Since you're so bloody pro you should be doing great then!
In Native, the good cav do good, and bad cav do bad, unlike in CRPG where they are practically the same.
or maybe dismounting and fight them on a hill might be better ideas
How is it not obvious to you that there is a great difference between a good and a bad cav player here when we consistently have the exact same people getting completely insane scores from horseback?
Fact is, there is no way 1vs6 cav should give the 1 cav even a remote chance of winning. Such a situation would only be for the very best players. As I see it, cav atm is in an ok place and honestly I cba to see any more changes involving cav.
In Native and PWMod (During war's), I normally win 1vs6 cav battles because I am able to use lance angles to my advantage.
I'm good at native but new to CRPG make CRPG like native so I can do well
Erm....Where did we park the bus with people who care? :rolleyes:
You are still using your "native-arguments", although I think everyone here told you that native is totally different and that actually noone really cares about how native is. This is crpg. Adapt to it or leave it and continue your "realistic" native where you seem to be one of the best players :)
Cheers
I can 1 vs 6 scrub cav in this game too
if you're good you'd adapt
if you're bad or crutch on broken ass easy mechanics from native, instead of winning you'll be too busy complaining
Saying that native has less depth for cav lancer duels is bullshit...
Before this turn radius nerf I did a gen or two as cavalry. Cav v Cav was fun. Even had an alt. Of course once the enemy cav was killed came the distasteful job of spearing inf in the back.
Lance nerf... meh for cav v cav.
i feel you on that, before the lance angle nerf it was so much better, what is funny about that i think imo it reduced the number of cav, because better cav would not give a chance to the noob cav in cav duels and the noob cav would probably be fed up with it and change class... and the outcome of the current head on lancing is much more random
or maybe dismounting and fight them on a hill might be better ideas
I find it interesting how you completely ignored 95% of the post, and instead of writing a well thought out counter-argument to my idea's about cavalry in crpg, you chose to quote one sentence of my response to someone else's statement about how a single cav cannot hope to beat 6 at once. Amazing how blind and biased people here can be.
Hmm, great idea! While your at it, tell all archer's to drop their bows and buy melee weapons! Tell all Shielder's to pick up a Greatsword!
adapt!
In Native and PWMod (During war's), I normally win 1vs6 cav battles because I am able to use lance angles to my advantage.
All i'm asking for is a slight chance of doing so in crpg, not as big of a chance as in native, just a slight one.
It seems like an increase in the lance angle, not even to native standards, is too much to ask for?
NOT dismounting for example if you're going to assault a roof full of archers is completely fucking retarded
If you can't see the irony here looking at your previous post...
I'm sorry, but are you stupid or just drunk?
Being "cav" is being a complete solider on a horse, you're not glued to it are you? You don't stop fighting once dismounted no?
NOT dismounting for example if you're going to assault a roof full of archers is completely fucking retarded; in general just focusing on one aspect of your class is beyond idiotic.
*Im cav so I should be on my horse HURR-DURR*
No, being cav means you have the option to ride.
I'm pole inf and yet I carry a shield and a dagger to deal with pesky ranged. If the situation calls for it I'll pick up a proper onehander or even a crossbow from the ground to deal with the situation at hand.
You keep talking about how having more options (in this case a wider lance angle) and yet you don't use the options at hand available to your class. Do you really want to just do one thing and expect to win out in every situation?
Ranty post I know, but this one got to me.
You keep talking about how having more options (in this case a wider lance angle) and yet you don't use the options at hand available to your class. Do you really want to just do one thing and expect to win out in every situation?
you chose to quote one sentence of my response to someone else's statement about how a single cav cannot hope to beat 6 at once. Amazing how blind and biased people here can be.
i think when he says that he can kill a hole team of great cavalry he is speaking about 5 vaegir knights on there horse in sp
i think when he says that he can kill a hole team of great cavalry he is speaking about 5 vaegir knights on there horse in sp