cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: DrKronic on September 03, 2011, 05:42:12 pm

Title: Balance Polearms
Post by: DrKronic on September 03, 2011, 05:42:12 pm
even read about the real awlpike

Awlpike(IRL description from book)-
Also known just as a "pike" and a Morris pike (corruption of Moorish), this is an infantry spear raning from 16 to 22 feet in length.  Awl Heads are usually leaf- or lozenge shaped.  The pole is made of a strong wood, such as ash.  Many pike heads are made with two tongues of steel, nailed down the sides of the shaft in order to prevent the head from getting hacked off.   The grip is often bound with cloth and the butt capped in steel to prevent the shaft from splitting.  The awl pike has the DUBIOUS distinction of being the SLOWEST polearm available.  add this to its MEDIOCRE damage against man-sized opponents, and one is left with a weapon of QUESTIONABLE VALUE, except when used EN MASSE on the battlefied.


INGAME= ridonkulous awesome dueling 1v1 weapon of death, plus hell you have 2 pike users, oh shit no one can stop u now lol (like IRL, o wait you'd get raped IRL with only 2 slow ass unwieldy pikes that do poor damage)

IRL= slow ass poor damage weapon, only useful in large formations(we're talking 4 rows deep, the real advantage of "long spear" type weapons, total suck in 1v1 due to slowness, bad damage)

seriously the way pikes are used now(long spears, bills), something should be changed,

I PROPOSE

Make all pikes/long spears/english bill/flamberge/halberd 3 slot weapons (to stop people from being able to carry 2 big ass weapons into battle, pikemen rarely had anything, maybe a dagger/short sword as backup)

OR

Make almost all polearms non-sheathable, this would also solve alot of problems (not to mention there is no such thing as a bec de corbin sheath, never was)

AND

lower spear damages back to pre-boost levels, with the new armor pierce is best damage instead of blunt, and we need a corresponding value change or else you really haven't made it where people take lots of hits

OR

Lower spear speeds, one big problem that can't be fixed is that polearms easily cause hits due to their hitbox flaws right a the 0 range, Walt's testing showed in the first 1/3 of a thrust the 2h animation doesn't deal damage, but the pole does, this is what causes those inch stabs with polearms, slowing their speed would help mitigate the faulty hitbox

OR

we can all just play "The_Last_Polespamurai" game that we got now (I was The_Last_Polespamurai, so yea I know how totally easy polearms are now compared to other weapons, destroy shields, kill all horses, duel just as fast as the greatest 2hs, use a shield and a red tassel spear and carry a poleaxe on your back into combat like some kind of hyper POLERAMBO
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Christo on September 03, 2011, 05:46:43 pm
Sounds like 2h lobbyism to me.

No-sheath to almost all polearms? Are you crazy? This would screw polearms up, and favour 2handed greatsword spam even more.

Hitbox flaws are on the to-do list when WSE comes in.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Joxer on September 03, 2011, 06:06:07 pm
INGAME= ridonkulous awesome dueling 1v1 weapon of death...

And this is the part where you fail. Learn to play.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Christo on September 03, 2011, 06:10:30 pm
Also, bringing up a Realism argument to only Polearms is okay, but there is no problem with the 360 degree 2h pikestab at point blank, right? That is realistic.  :)
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Bjord on September 03, 2011, 06:14:14 pm
Realism rarely belongs in game balance discussions, you'd have to overhaul every aspect of the game according to realism if you want realistic traits for weapons.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Cepeshi on September 03, 2011, 06:32:40 pm
Another pole whine? Come on, just go with the flow.

And ye, i went poles after 8gens as sworder, i see some people still owning with swords, but i need lot more practise to get to that level  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Lichen on September 03, 2011, 06:37:24 pm
I love how as soon as players migrate to using less used or different weapons the calls for nerfs aren't far behind. I got tired of using regular 'swing' polearms and so have been using spears more often to try and bring back some interest to playing. Well...we can't have that! Now spears are OP..too fast etc etc. Predictable.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Gorath on September 03, 2011, 09:39:14 pm
Sounds like 2h lobbyism to me.

Look who it is.
Kronic has always been a mega troll for 2h elitism and superiority (and just an asshole in general).
The supposed "book" he quoted looks like it was written by a 2nd year high school dropout so it's probably a big pile of bullshit, and the comment about being uber pro 1v1 dueling weapon is just a huge load of fail and lol.

In short:  Fuck your 2h elitist bias Kronic.  You're just mad that the game isn't 100% 2h dueling all the time from now until forever amen.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: ManOfWar on September 03, 2011, 09:55:57 pm
Long spears and pikes need to be fixed still, the spinning BS at point blank and the jiggling of it and be able to hit is retarded.

Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Gorath on September 03, 2011, 09:59:40 pm
Long spears and pikes need to be fixed still, the spinning BS at point blank and the jiggling of it and be able to hit is retarded.

The overhead needs to be fixed for sure, absolutely.  Going through teammates 50% of the time is bullshit.

However the spinning BS at point blank and jiggling of it applies to ALL weapons.  2hers, polearms, pikes, even 1hers to a degree.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Cheap_Shot on September 04, 2011, 11:52:18 am
The overhead needs to be fixed for sure, absolutely.  Going through teammates 50% of the time is bullshit.

However the spinning BS at point blank and jiggling of it applies to ALL weapons.  2hers, polearms, pikes, even 1hers to a degree.

 Yeah. Lets fix that too. Like asap. Surely they can put off the slow replacement of all ranged with crossbows for a patch or two while they work on getting rid of that?
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Cyclopsided on September 05, 2011, 01:52:06 pm
>awlpike in game= Ahlsphiess or "awlpike"
Awlpike =/= 16 to 22 foot pike in reference of this topic

Ahlspiess typically had a 5 foot to 6 foot shaft and is designed largely for 1v1 combat. A spear developed during the time as a plate killer, and of course its design is to not let the haft get knocked & chopped.


god damn it DrKronic. You always deliver.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on September 05, 2011, 03:40:42 pm
Hmm. A one second google search brings me a wiki article of the awlpike saying:
"The ahlspiess was used in other countries as well, including England, and was a popular weapon along with the pollaxe in tournament foot combat among armoured knights."
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: DrKronic on September 05, 2011, 05:26:02 pm
no I use a pike/polearm as well, its just straight better than 2h because you can switch out the pike for a dueling size(read 2h sized) weapon and have best at both worlds, or wield a shield/spear to be immune to ranged and then again switch to dueling sized polearm

Oh yea Devs, the guys that came out to blast this, BTW, are in order

Joxer, who only uses a pike, well duh of course douchebag you're not gonna want anything but status quo

the gay that plays "canyoublockdown" well no shit again all you do is play the longest polearm with a poleaxe on your back of course you wouldn't want any balancing

lol Fatty Gorath who ALSO plays a Red Tassel Shielder with guess what, A Poleaxe on his back

well no shit Sherlocks, I doubt any of you want the Divine Polearm Sisterhood to be fucked with, hey man I change what I play every gen, I was lancer cav last gen, total polearm the gen before that (The_Last_Polespamurai dumb dumbs)
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: DrKronic on September 05, 2011, 05:33:59 pm
in other words, getting "HELL NO DON'T DO THAT" from ugly gorath and company is like getting a "Yep, THERE IS A UNBALANCED WEAPON CATEGORY HERE" from the playerbase, in other words all I'm saying is........

REDUCE SPEAR THRUST damages to be inline with the armor changes, it isn't really even a nerf considering they got a boost from the recent armor change, its a true balance, also making the larger pole axes UNSHEATHABLE makes sense, and a slow down or damage nerf on the awlpike would bring it inline

Also Realism as an argument is used by these same people when it is convenient, remember how the original 2h animation wasn't realistic, crushthrough wasn't realistic, however its fine that your left mouse button won't work against the 13 skill shielder or that I can bring 450 length of weapons into the battlefield every round(that's a accepted feature of the game, wait wtf?)

well whatever, I will keep bringing my pike and poleaxe/greatsword whatever as theirs no reason not to, guess we are all supposed to be polearm users?
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Joxer on September 05, 2011, 05:41:05 pm
Joxer, who only uses a pike, well duh of course douchebag you're not gonna want anything but status quo

*Doh* screw you. I dont use a pike. Pike is my main enemy.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: DrKronic on September 05, 2011, 05:46:10 pm
*Doh* screw you. I dont use a pike. Pike is my main enemy.

lol got ya, but its true I've seen u "Joxer the Pikey" and all u use is that pike, well of course why would you want any nerf to it, y'all brought the lobbying I only brought the Turth, which obviously can't be handled
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Joxer on September 05, 2011, 05:47:17 pm
Ffs I haven't even touched the pike in ages. I got it for one round cause I thought there was a new animation. I'm all halberd and pike is my main enemy.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Tomas on September 05, 2011, 06:02:47 pm
I agree with those on here who have pointed out that the ingame Awlpike is not the same as the Awlpike described in the OP and therefore the poroposals are based on false information.

HOWEVER, looking at the polearms, I can see some inconsistencies that do need looking at imo.

1) The Ashwood Pike - Why is it so heavy?  The Pike is almost twice it's length yet lighter, whilst the Awlpike which is roughly the same length but much lighter is only slightly faster.  If the Ashwood pike really is deliberately that heavy then it should be much slower than it is.

2) Why is the Awlpike sheathable whilst similar weapons are not?  If it is due to being fairly light (only 2) then why can't the light lance (1.5) be sheathed?  And if it is done by length (which I always assumed) then why can't the Swiss Halberd and Flamberge be sheathed?  Finally, if it is some sort of combination of length and weight, then I'd say you definitely shouldn't be able to sheath the Long Maul with its weight of 7 and length of 125.  I'd really like to know what the criteria is for this, since I can't work it out at all.



Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on September 05, 2011, 06:25:08 pm
Why did Gorath's daughter get called into this? Does she use two polearms? o.O
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: WaltF4 on September 05, 2011, 06:55:52 pm
Lower spear speeds, one big problem that can't be fixed is that polearms easily cause hits due to their hitbox flaws right a the 0 range, Walt's testing showed in the first 1/3 of a thrust the 2h animation doesn't deal damage, but the pole does, this is what causes those inch stabs with polearms, slowing their speed would help mitigate the faulty hitbox

My test (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,12476.msg177500.html#msg177500) was for the two handed polearm thrust i.e. the thrust preformed with a polearm without a shield and/or mounted.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Gorath on September 05, 2011, 08:48:44 pm
or wield a shield/spear to be immune to ranged and then again switch to dueling sized polearm
No.  Slot system.  Dunno how you have 5 slots.   :rolleyes:  Oh yeah, you don't.

*Raging downs child drivel forthcoming*
How on earth you get by in society is beyond me given how absolutely moronic, ragey and immature you are.  It's really sad for someone of your supposed age.

lol Fatty Gorath who ALSO plays a Red Tassel Shielder with guess what, A Poleaxe on his back
Again dumbass, slot system prevents this.
Shield =1
Red Tassel = 2
Poleaxe = 2

Oh shit, 5 slots.  Damn, I guess you're full of shit.  AGAIN.

in other words, getting "HELL NO DON'T DO THAT" from ugly daughtered gorath
Why did Gorath's daughter get called into this? Does she use two polearms? o.O

Because Kronik is a moron that thinks acting like a childish cunt is the same thing as being a villain or trolling.  He's an idiot, ignore him.
It's all just 2h'd lobbying from him anyways.  He brings up the "last polespamurai" character as if that means anything, but he was barely average on him.  Yup, sure fire proof that all things non-2h are OP.  You betcha.

lol got ya

Sign of an idiot:  Thinking that having someone tell you that you're wrong is the same as "getting" them.   :rolleyes:

Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: DrKronic on September 05, 2011, 09:30:02 pm
lol 3 to 1 KDR is not average, I do better than u thats for certain man, just look at my steam screenshots, I save basically all the maps I play on, not sure who you're kidding, polearms are the best because u can do everything with them, they can do what both other classes can do(best on cav, shield use, great large fast dueling weapons that break shields)

I mean ur gonna troll me whatever I say, so go ahead, but u and I both know you're truly bad compared to me, that won't change lol, good news is ingame you suck



oh my bad carrying a pike and a poleaxe,  wrong screenshot but the same thing applies
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Gorath on September 05, 2011, 09:35:39 pm
I mean ur gonna troll me whatever I say
:?
You have serious mental health issues.  You know that.
Seek help.  Seriously.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: DrKronic on September 05, 2011, 09:36:59 pm
:?
You have serious mental health issues.  You know that.
Seek help.  Seriously.

lol, sure man, your the one who attacked someone in public and got arrested for it, not me trucker of trollwisdom +3, I know you from voice remember dumbshit
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Gorath on September 05, 2011, 09:41:17 pm
lol, sure man, your the one who attacked someone in public and got arrested for it, not me trucker of trollwisdom +3, I know you from voice remember dumbshit

You are seriously fucking delusional.  I would tell you that what you're describing never happened, but you obviously have no grasp of reality anyways.  Get therapy man.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Leshma on September 05, 2011, 09:54:01 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: DrKronic on September 05, 2011, 10:16:42 pm
You are seriously fucking delusional.  I would tell you that what you're describing never happened, but you obviously have no grasp of reality anyways.  Get therapy man.

lol, what you're doing is called projection Gorath...........go get laid, my suggestion is a hooker as u are horrible with women IIRC, my wife says you need to lose some weight that might help your self-esteem


Back to the Problem

Polearms get=
Best cav usable weapons
Ability to use wpp with shields/without
"2h greatsword" like weapons except they get bonus vs shields(Poleaxes)
Horse rearing
plus u can use a 300 length pike and bring a poleaxe on your back
not to mention every good throwing weapon is guess what a polearm
..................

all I ask for is true balancing of the classes, if u want every1 to be polearm users just remove the others
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Gorath on September 05, 2011, 10:40:43 pm
Sure Kronic.  That's why I'm the one coming up with imaginary "RL", as much as a delusional fantasy could be called "real life", stuff to try and attack people with.  You're pathetic, and you will probably always be pathetic.  Dunno who you got your info from, but the scenario you described above with the supposed "arrest" never happened in this reality.  Maybe in YOUR delusional reality, but that's an issue for a therapist to work out.  The fact that the only thing you have to go on is poor attempts at some RL insults simply shows how much of a failure you are.  Get a job, and buy a clue.

You should also check out http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,4112.0.html
(click to show/hide)
Back to the Problem 
You seem to be the biggest problem in here but ok:

Polearms get=
Best cav usable weapons -  Sure, lances are polearms yes
Ability to use wpp with shields/without - Morning star, Bastard sword, Longsword, Heavy Bastard sword, Fighting Axe, Langes Messer, The pick thing, Goedendag.  I'm sure there's another one I'm missing.  So 2hers have this ability as well.  Oh and bloody 1hers can as well!  Who'da thunk it?
"2h greatsword" like weapons except they get bonus vs shields(Poleaxes) -  Only with far far shittier animations, far far less reach (lol2hstabofpikelength), on average slower speed ratings.  But yeah, the polearm AXES are better than 2h axes, which logically shouldn't exist because you don't use a fucking axe like a 2h'd sword or you'd break your wrists and have absolutely no control of the weapon at all.  All "2h'd" axes are used with a polearm grip.  So logically 2her's should have all axe weapons removed anyways. 
Horse rearing - Half sword and you can do the same.  OMG BUT THAT REQUIRES DOING SOMETHING OTHER THAN 2h LOLSTABBING!  Still I'll give this point to you because I know you'll whine that you shouldn't have to halfsword to do it.
plus u can use a 300 length pike and bring a poleaxe on your back - OMG you can use a 300 length pike and bring a greatsword on your back!  WOW, what a concept!  Oh, you think pikes need WPF points to wield?  Silly boy.
not to mention every good throwing weapon is guess what a polearm - ..... really?  Did you just polearm whine about throwing weapons?  used in melee?  ffs man.

All you ask for is the ability to be a douche and bitch about anything that's not a 2her.   :rolleyes:
Overall weapon balances between the types, and in general balance within the mod itself, is at an all time great spot.  It's the players and meta game that cause most of the issues, or the shitty engine itself.  Perhaps if you have your head removed from your ass for a moment you'd see this.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 05, 2011, 11:17:13 pm
We should remove polearms from the game.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Teeth on September 05, 2011, 11:26:30 pm
(click to show/hide)
:shock: What is this, I don't even
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Gorath on September 05, 2011, 11:30:31 pm
(click to show/hide)
:shock: What is this, I don't even

Downs Rage, that's what.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Kafein on September 05, 2011, 11:44:16 pm
Nerf melee stats of javelins. They are absolutely OP because those are both polearms and throwing weps  :cry:


Polearms can do everything. Guess what ? To do everything with them, you need more than one polearm.

2h can also do everything, but you only need a danish GS.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Torp on September 06, 2011, 12:13:39 am
nerf fucking long dagger... i mean, it's so fucking good at chambering and you can both use it with AND without a shield... and on fucking horseback? what the hell is fasader thinking about here? next thing you know they make daggers throwable... they could call it throwing daggers or something.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Leshma on September 06, 2011, 12:20:49 am
We should remove polearms from the game.

Nah. just fix the stab speed.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: vinnytk on September 06, 2011, 12:47:54 am
nerf fucking long dagger... i mean, it's so fucking good at chambering and you can both use it with AND without a shield... and on fucking horseback? what the hell is fasader thinking about here? next thing you know they make daggers throwable... they could call it throwing daggers or something.

A long dagger on cav is funny actually because their is some broken ghost reach when doing a stab from horse back.  So you bump a guy and then stab him in the face with a thrust through the horsey's neck
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: BADPLAYERold on September 07, 2011, 08:22:41 am
Only thing I agree about is making pikes and longspears 3slot ,so only dedicated pikemen can use them instead of anyone who has free slots and wants to get some easy kills in groups.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Cyclopsided on September 07, 2011, 09:04:24 am
Only thing I agree about is making pikes and longspears 3slot ,so only dedicated pikemen can use them instead of anyone who has free slots and wants to get some easy kills in groups.
Repeating this sentiment. A pikeman shouldn't have a pole axe on his back.
As it is, I'm one of those guys.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: FICO on September 07, 2011, 09:43:24 am
even read about the real awlpike

(click to show/hide)


which book?

what does it mean mediocre damage?

i'm sure that author didn't know much about human constitution. yes it delivers critical damage to halflings, but to man-sized opponents...
HEY WTF!?!?!

which are other sizes of opponents you fight against? halflings? giants? in which "IRL" world or dimension do you live?!?!

lol kid
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Thucydides on September 07, 2011, 10:34:46 am
Repeating this sentiment. A pikeman shouldn't have a pole axe on his back.
As it is, I'm one of those guys.

not a poleaxe but a longsword or something
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: MouthnHoof on September 07, 2011, 01:47:08 pm
Repeating this sentiment. A pikeman shouldn't have a pole axe on his back.
That is why ALL these polearms need the "cannot sheath" flag (poleaxes, bardiches, Bec... I am looking at you). Making them 3 slot items just means that anyone that will want to carry a proper melee weapon will be limited to 1H without a shield. In turn it means very few people with pikes and a cavalry heaven. You will not even be able to pick one up from the ground because it will drop all your other melee weapons.

Polearms need the "cannot sheath" flag.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Gorath on September 07, 2011, 05:15:45 pm
Polearms need the "cannot sheath" flag.

So do 2hers then for game balance.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 07, 2011, 06:29:23 pm
Don't nerf all polearms because you are butt hurt about the two longest pokiest ones. Making both long spears and pikes 3 slots sounds fine.
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 07, 2011, 09:53:44 pm
even read about the real awlpike

Awlpike(IRL description from book)-
Also known just as a "pike" and a Morris pike (corruption of Moorish), this is an infantry spear raning from 16 to 22 feet in length.  Awl Heads are usually leaf- or lozenge shaped.  The pole is made of a strong wood, such as ash.  Many pike heads are made with two tongues of steel, nailed down the sides of the shaft in order to prevent the head from getting hacked off.   The grip is often bound with cloth and the butt capped in steel to prevent the shaft from splitting.  The awl pike has the DUBIOUS distinction of being the SLOWEST polearm available.  add this to its MEDIOCRE damage against man-sized opponents, and one is left with a weapon of QUESTIONABLE VALUE, except when used EN MASSE on the battlefied.


INGAME= ridonkulous awesome dueling 1v1 weapon of death, plus hell you have 2 pike users, oh shit no one can stop u now lol (like IRL, o wait you'd get raped IRL with only 2 slow ass unwieldy pikes that do poor damage)

IRL= slow ass poor damage weapon, only useful in large formations(we're talking 4 rows deep, the real advantage of "long spear" type weapons, total suck in 1v1 due to slowness, bad damage)

seriously the way pikes are used now(long spears, bills), something should be changed,

I PROPOSE

Make all pikes/long spears/english bill/flamberge/halberd 3 slot weapons (to stop people from being able to carry 2 big ass weapons into battle, pikemen rarely had anything, maybe a dagger/short sword as backup)

OR

Make almost all polearms non-sheathable, this would also solve alot of problems (not to mention there is no such thing as a bec de corbin sheath, never was)

AND

lower spear damages back to pre-boost levels, with the new armor pierce is best damage instead of blunt, and we need a corresponding value change or else you really haven't made it where people take lots of hits

OR

Lower spear speeds, one big problem that can't be fixed is that polearms easily cause hits due to their hitbox flaws right a the 0 range, Walt's testing showed in the first 1/3 of a thrust the 2h animation doesn't deal damage, but the pole does, this is what causes those inch stabs with polearms, slowing their speed would help mitigate the faulty hitbox

OR

we can all just play "The_Last_Polespamurai" game that we got now (I was The_Last_Polespamurai, so yea I know how totally easy polearms are now compared to other weapons, destroy shields, kill all horses, duel just as fast as the greatest 2hs, use a shield and a red tassel spear and carry a poleaxe on your back into combat like some kind of hyper POLERAMBO

as a 2hander, i disagree all the points. specially this

Quote
INGAME= ridonkulous awesome dueling 1v1 weapon of death, plus hell you have 2 pike users, oh shit no one can stop u now lol (like IRL, o wait you'd get raped IRL with only 2 slow ass unwieldy pikes that do poor damage)

2 attack directions = awesome dueling weapon of death? OMFG.

Quote
you have 2 pike users, oh shit no one can stop u now lol

pretty much like 2 maulers do, like 2 archers would do kiting you, like 2 cavs would do bumping you over and over...

Quote
... slowing their speed would help mitigate the faulty hitbox ...

really makes me laugh...

man, if you got steamrolled 1vs1 by a pike, there something wrong with you. and if you get rolled by 2 pikemen constantly, no need to rewrite the game for you. just don't rush in a 1vs2 if you can't handle it.

if everytime we got ganked, we wrote a thread, we would need a server farm just to host "Suggestions Corner".
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 07, 2011, 09:58:03 pm
That is why ALL these polearms need the "cannot sheath" flag (poleaxes, bardiches, Bec... I am looking at you). Making them 3 slot items just means that anyone that will want to carry a proper melee weapon will be limited to 1H without a shield. In turn it means very few people with pikes and a cavalry heaven. You will not even be able to pick one up from the ground because it will drop all your other melee weapons.

Polearms need the "cannot sheath" flag.

for the sake of realism, we keep removing stuff from the game. waoh.

why i only see "nerf here! nerf there!" and never "buff a bit here, a bit there."

instead, no. nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf...
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: DrKronic on September 08, 2011, 03:11:01 am
didn't quite understand what he read

@ 1st Guy = I'm saying polearms get "Weapons" that can duel just as well as 2h's(read bec de corbin/poleaxes) + 300 length weapons, + shield usable WPP,

BTW 2h weapons usable on a horse use 1h WPP

Polearms have the best throwing weapons that use their wpp in "X" mode, hard coded Polestun, Pike and Poleaxe at same time, best on cav, best vs cav, shield usable WPP =  unbalanced weapon category?

yes I understand the arguments against cav and throwing weapons that utilize 2h WPP and "Unbalanced" "2h" class weapons, but you can't just say "Thats Realism" and then say oh the rest just needs balance forget about that advantage over there, I mean its hardcoded we can't count that(....!)
...
...

@ Gorath- I understand a few 2h class weapons can carry an shield, however you must use 1h proficiency(at a 35% penalty to speed/damage)
.................
Polearm user can keep using his WPP, some weapons without a penalty, then without the shield if u say a Red Tassel or War Spear sucks, you are the one that has no skill I had no trouble killing with them.............

Also you seem to be ok with all the implicit advantages of Polearm but if the dueling Poleaxes became "Unsheathable" then for some reason all the advantages Polearms already have over other weapon classes become Nothing.....................I myself carry a pike with my 2h into battle

*******************
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: DrKronic on September 08, 2011, 03:13:19 am

 Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious, or really just people that will do anything to evade the actual argument**********

I'm saying it's easier to do it for "Polearm" weapon person........
they have more options of what they can do with their WPP..........
so its not Balanced vs the other weapon classes..................

To compare the ability of 2h weapons on horseback vs 1h or Polearm WPP is a joke, as no 2h "WPP" can be used on a horse(very few 2h weapons, not the WPP though, you'll be using 1h WPP to swing)


I can use a pike and bec/poleaxe/glaive etc, preserving my wpp in both and what real disadvantage vs a 2h Greatsword when that bec/poleaxe comes out, oh wait the Bec eats armor like paper, especially the latest rendition of what cRPG calls armor

....implicit "Polestun", heavier dueling weapons in general in the 120+ length range equaling more Weight Stun effect all weapons can have.............

remember how they lightened the katana at one point, if we're not aiming for realism just balance why not top poleaxes at 2.5 weight?

not to mention Poleaxes are great vs shields, so with an elegant Poleaxe I had a weapon I could truly take on anyone with, there is no such 2h weapon...........

There is no balance between weapon classes----

Weapons over 150 length should be 3 slot, Polearm + Shield should use "1h" type proficiency, Pierce damages need to be reduced across the board to be inline with new "Mostly Reduce" Armors of cRPG
Title: Re: Most pikes are questionable in 1v1, why not ingame?
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 08, 2011, 03:26:41 am

 Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious, or really just people that will do anything to evade the actual argument**********

I'm saying it's easier to do it for "Polearm" weapon person........
they have more options of what they can do with their WPP..........
so its not Balanced vs the other weapon classes..................

To compare the ability of 2h weapons on horseback vs 1h or Polearm WPP is a joke, as no 2h "WPP" can be used on a horse(very few 2h weapons, not the WPP though, you'll be using 1h WPP to swing)


I can use a pike and bec/poleaxe/glaive etc, preserving my wpp in both and what real disadvantage vs a 2h Greatsword when that bec/poleaxe comes out, oh wait the Bec eats armor like paper, especially the latest rendition of what cRPG calls armor

....implicit "Polestun", heavier dueling weapons in general in the 120+ length range equaling more Weight Stun effect all weapons can have.............

remember how they lightened the katana at one point, if we're not aiming for realism just balance why not top poleaxes at 2.5 weight?

not to mention Poleaxes are great vs shields, so with an elegant Poleaxe I had a weapon I could truly take on anyone with, there is no such 2h weapon...........

There is no balance between weapon classes----

Weapons over 150 length should be 3 slot, Polearm + Shield should use "1h" type proficiency, Pierce damages need to be reduced across the board to be inline with new "Mostly Reduce" Armors of cRPG

i just don't get why. there are zillion threads about this. we repeatedly discuss it over and over and over.

with WSE, devs will have the possibility to work on the polearm stagger (aka stun), also poleaxes are heavier than swords so they stun blocks. but have a leverage handle that makes thrust and overhead to have a shorter reach than 2h counterpart. it's harder to duel with a poleaxe, but poleaxes shine in team (poke, stun, horse rear, etc)

2h weapons require less strength, have better animations (feints, hiltslashing, thrust is weak but reach is good, etc). 2h also shine at crushthru, dueling, raw DPS (damage per speed).

polearms shine at playstyle variety, teamwork.

end of the story.
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: Gorath on September 08, 2011, 05:09:20 am
Ironically I've really started liking you Corrado.
Who'da thunk it.
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 08, 2011, 02:44:04 pm
Ironically I've really started liking you Corrado.
Who'da thunk it.

ofc i'm growing up  :lol:

seriously. besides troll battles, i think we're not completely retarded.. we can still discuss seriously about stuff. i'll not free-troll anymore.. unless michael write another silly thread  :lol:

i never had anything against you.. we just had some misunderstandings and too much serious trolling moments.
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: Xant on September 08, 2011, 02:47:41 pm
D'aww.
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: Thucydides on September 08, 2011, 04:09:22 pm
you my old friends, MEN CAN'T SHOW AFFECTION :!:
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 08, 2011, 06:37:53 pm
wut? this is clean, true and pure love!


and btw who said i'm a man?  8-)
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: Siiem on September 08, 2011, 07:47:26 pm
even read about the real awlpike

Awlpike(IRL description from book)-
Also known just as a "pike" and a Morris pike (corruption of Moorish), this is an infantry spear raning from 16 to 22 feet in length.  Awl Heads are usually leaf- or lozenge shaped.  The pole is made of a strong wood, such as ash.  Many pike heads are made with two tongues of steel, nailed down the sides of the shaft in order to prevent the head from getting hacked off.   The grip is often bound with cloth and the butt capped in steel to prevent the shaft from splitting.  The awl pike has the DUBIOUS distinction of being the SLOWEST polearm available.  add this to its MEDIOCRE damage against man-sized opponents, and one is left with a weapon of QUESTIONABLE VALUE, except when used EN MASSE on the battlefied.

Imma repost this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy6y9oXkjCo&feature=player_detailpage#t=18s now he's holding a real awl pike. And it looks quite similar to what we have ingame. 
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: ArchonAlarion on September 09, 2011, 10:00:59 pm
Awlpike/Ahlespiess image search on google:

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Idk what your source was on about, the "awlpike", or more properly, the "ahlspiess" did exist as a popular shortish spear-like weapon.
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: Gorath on September 10, 2011, 08:45:00 am
Idk what your source was

His ass.  As per usual.
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: DrKronic on September 10, 2011, 11:54:11 pm
His ass.  As per usual.

actually I got that from a dungeons and dragons 2nd edition weapons manual, it also said the awlpike only did 1d4 damage so there
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: Gorath on September 11, 2011, 01:31:28 am
dungeons and dragons

Ass

As I said.
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: Thucydides on September 11, 2011, 02:03:15 am
Imma repost this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy6y9oXkjCo&feature=player_detailpage#t=18s now he's holding a real awl pike. And it looks quite similar to what we have ingame.

as opposed to the Goendaug which looks nothing like what we have in game
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: DrKronic on September 11, 2011, 02:08:30 am
Ass

As I said.

har! :D hai I won the lottery I'm thinking 1h military cleaver then +1 it on my next retire and go 1h no shield!, or maybe a pike, I use it so often
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: Siiem on September 11, 2011, 02:44:07 pm
as opposed to the Goendaug which looks nothing like what we have in game

Lol it's a native item called spiked mace... someone just renamed it to goedendag. While the native item "awlpike" always was named awlpike.
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: Farrok on September 11, 2011, 08:23:25 pm
as opposed to the Goendaug which looks nothing like what we have in game

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http://www.liebaart.org/goeden_e.htm


only because some video shows only one type of goedendag, doesn´t mean its the only type out there...videos are for entertaining not the best choice for informations gathering...
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: Thucydides on September 12, 2011, 06:59:11 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


http://www.liebaart.org/goeden_e.htm


only because some video shows only one type of goedendag, doesn´t mean its the only type out there...videos are for entertaining not the best choice for informations gathering...

i know i was mocking siiem's source DAMNIT
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: Siiem on September 12, 2011, 10:30:58 am
Aren't you clever.
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: Thucydides on September 12, 2011, 10:44:48 am
Aren't you clever.

thats what i tell myself
Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: Siiem on September 12, 2011, 11:18:51 am
thats what i tell myself

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Title: Re: Balance Polearms
Post by: Farrok on September 12, 2011, 09:08:03 pm
i know i was mocking siiem's source DAMNIT

than i´m sry, dont have time to read all the posts ;) but its good for the people who write after the posts ;)