cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Wookimonsta on July 18, 2011, 03:57:24 pm

Title: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wookimonsta on July 18, 2011, 03:57:24 pm
I know this is blatant lobbyism (sp?) since I am a cav, but i dont get why horses are so expensive.
Lancers got nurfed 3-fold.
First, the horses got less speed and maneuver.
Secondly, the lance only has 40 degree turn.
Thirdly, the lance speed got increased, now if I understand it correctly, the slower a weapon the more the speed bonus, and speed bonus is a lancers bread and butter.
With all these nerfs, my repair from a courser has gone from about 800-900 to 1400. I know its supposed to break less, but 1.4k is a shitload of money, thats at least 6 rounds of x5 (with nothing breaking) for a medium tier horse. If this was a top tier horse, i'd understand, but for a courser that is alot of money.
At the same time, lances got alot more expensive too, despite them being heavily nerfed.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Lanic0r on July 18, 2011, 05:08:44 pm
lower upkeep?
How about horses need feed per day and that costs anything ;)
you know like a flat rate!
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wookimonsta on July 18, 2011, 05:17:41 pm
lower upkeep?
How about horses need feed per day and that costs anything ;)
you know like a flat rate!
all instruments of war need taking care of
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wulzzz on July 18, 2011, 05:34:26 pm
Wheres the problem with upkeep?
I see more the problem that cav want good horse + heavy armor + expensive weapon while on ground.
Sry can't have the lollipop with all flavours..well you can afford that already roughly.

Or do you want to be able to afford metal horse + heavy armor etc?
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Magikarp on July 18, 2011, 05:36:19 pm
@Wulzzz: I don't think he even is talking about the nonsense you are telling us. I think he meant low-medium armour and a light horse setup now even drains cash quickly.

I'd say if this happens, light horses only get a sligh reduction, while heavy horses should receive the biggest, to bring some much needed variety in the game. (Nerfing doesn't help to stimulate that at all!)
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Glyph on July 18, 2011, 07:28:40 pm
heavy horses should get a bit cheaper, so you can use them with a shield, sword and 6k armor. now that isn't possible
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Overdriven on July 18, 2011, 07:54:08 pm
There is a problem when I (an HA, arguably the cheapest cavalry build) lose money on anything but a x5. My courser wipes out over 1000 gold every time it's repaired. I need a x5 + a significant length of round time to make money on that. Mind you the arrow repair factor doesn't help. But even a x5 on rounds that only last 2 mins (frequent on the EU servers), doesn't generate any where near enough to make up for the repair costs. I've been bleeding money (from 40000 to 15000) since the patch came out. And that's only playing about 6 hours of crpg since it did.

My equipment:

Spirited Courser
MW Hornbow
3 sets Bodkins (expensive these days I know, but worth it)
Steppe armour
Nomad boots
Leather gloves

You nerfed cav slightly, at least reduce the cost of maintaining that build to make up for it.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Glyph on July 18, 2011, 08:50:42 pm
There is a problem when I (an HA, arguably the cheapest cavalry build) lose money on anything but a x5. My courser wipes out over 1000 gold every time it's repaired. I need a x5 + a significant length of round time to make money on that. Mind you the arrow repair factor doesn't help. But even a x5 on rounds that only last 2 mins (frequent on the EU servers), doesn't generate any where near enough to make up for the repair costs. I've been bleeding money (from 40000 to 15000) since the patch came out. And that's only playing about 6 hours of crpg since it did.

My equipment:

Spirited Courser
MW Hornbow
3 sets Bodkins (expensive these days I know, but worth it)
Steppe armour
Nomad boots
Leather gloves

You nerfed cav slightly, at least reduce the cost of maintaining that build to make up for it.
how much does the site say you wear qau costs(without the extra loom value)?
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Overdriven on July 18, 2011, 09:26:06 pm
68000  :( It loses 15000 when I go from bodkins to arrows. Bloody bodkin cost is dumb.

Still...HA used to be the cheapest cav build.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on July 18, 2011, 09:55:16 pm
Wulz, your off course, this isnt about not being able to go full plated. this is about not getting raped by upkeep even with a very simple gear.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Baggy on July 18, 2011, 10:47:42 pm
+1, it pure bullshit that a courser can bankrupt you in a hour.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Myltinous on July 19, 2011, 08:13:56 pm
My support is fully behind this, and I'm a pure infantry player. There is never enough calvary in battle servers (at least in the NA ones i play in) and that is because of the ridiculus upkeep for the horses. The upkeep should be high enough to prevent people from going heavy armored on a charger or warhorse, but not to the point where people are going bankrupt with light calvary and light gear.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Bonze on July 19, 2011, 09:27:38 pm


Vote NO

My char is 1H cav  (Champion Cataphract Horse ) 55000-70000 equipment  and no problems with the new  upkeep

Stop whining about little girli ponys like arabian or courser ..

1.4k for a  top score class  is ridiculous

Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Tzar on July 19, 2011, 09:47:02 pm
Same voted NO too the power my 1h/cav alt has once he mounts that horse more than makes up for the cost the same goes for my HA.

Seams retarded footmen should have to pay shitload for decent armor and gear if people can ride war pony´s for low upkeep.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Overdriven on July 19, 2011, 09:53:21 pm

Vote NO

My char is 1H cav  (Champion Cataphract Horse ) 55000-70000 equipment  and no problems with the new  upkeep

Stop whining about little girli ponys like arabian or courser ..

1.4k for a  top score class  is ridiculous

Well you're either losing shit loads of money...and so have lots in reserve. Or are just incredibly lucky with multipliers. Apparently you can only sustain 48000 equipment and break even if you have a win/loss streak of 50-50 on the servers. And unless you are lucky, or play small servers and drag the game out. Then you are just trolling.

And considering your horse lancer nerf thread...you are probably just a troll.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Bonze on July 19, 2011, 11:54:52 pm
Well you're either losing shit loads of money...and so have lots in reserve. Or are just incredibly lucky with multipliers. Apparently you can only sustain 48000 equipment and break even if you have a win/loss streak of 50-50 on the servers. And unless you are lucky, or play small servers and drag the game out. Then you are just trolling.

And considering your horse lancer nerf thread...you are probably just a troll.

around 1000-15000 since 3-4 months ,  EU1 or pecores..
Whos the troll?
You dosnt know anythings about this basic upkeep system.
Lets just say,  crpg economy is pure communism. Praise comrade chadz  .The correct money quantity is  important. Less is more....
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on July 20, 2011, 12:47:09 am
if I choose to go in normal gear

Palfrey
Heavy lance
Heraldic mail with tabard
Mail chausses
Mail guantlets
Mighty Poleaxe

in total if it breaks it will cost me around 1.2K plus (over 2K if the poleaxe breaks  :evil: )

now if I go in my heavy gear

Plated charger
Milanese Plate
Milanese Sallet
Shynbaulds
Plate Mittens
Mighty Poleaxe

now im not one of the people who have 100's of thousands of K sitting in my pocket I rarely get over 30K and keep it there, soI want to keep the little ammount I do have but I roughly worked out that if this breaks it will cost between 12K plus to repair these items before it would cost around 7K-8K. Its a big jump and even those who have a shit tone of money laying around will soon be broke by this upkeep.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Paul on July 20, 2011, 12:31:29 pm
Thirdly, the lance speed got increased, now if I understand it correctly, the slower a weapon the more the speed bonus, and speed bonus is a lancers bread and butter.
Haha, that's correct.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Leshma on July 20, 2011, 12:38:34 pm
Horses are cheap as they are now. Breaks every 15-20th round, basically only item with no upkeep, just like the pre upkeep patch. That's why there are so many armored horses on the battlefield.

Armor and weapons brake chance seems so much higher. Paying 1.6k for destrier every 10th round (if you're unlucky) is way better than paying 4-6 times 750 gold  per 10 rounds for xbow.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Lizard_man on July 20, 2011, 02:05:08 pm
i'm down 50,000... :cry:
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on July 20, 2011, 04:57:08 pm
Horses are cheap as they are now. Breaks every 15-20th round, basically only item with no upkeep, just like the pre upkeep patch. That's why there are so many armored horses on the battlefield.

Armor and weapons brake chance seems so much higher. Paying 1.6k for destrier every 10th round (if you're unlucky) is way better than paying 4-6 times 750 gold  per 10 rounds for xbow.

so far my horse breaks every 2-5 rounds and every time it breaks it cost's 1388 gold to repair. Add that up on top of armor and weapons I think its safe to say we pay more upkeep then any other class.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Overdriven on July 20, 2011, 05:54:27 pm
Horses are cheap as they are now. Breaks every 15-20th round, basically only item with no upkeep, just like the pre upkeep patch. That's why there are so many armored horses on the battlefield.

Armor and weapons brake chance seems so much higher. Paying 1.6k for destrier every 10th round (if you're unlucky) is way better than paying 4-6 times 750 gold  per 10 rounds for xbow.

Lol have you even touched a horse? They break every 2-5 rounds as Hunter says. Stop spouting random crap.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: LaTruite on July 20, 2011, 06:06:35 pm
The major problem is that you can't rush into cavalry when you start crpg.
With the old upkeep system you strugled to keep your horse when you could finally get it, but now you just have to sell wife and kids just to pay a few rounds of horse riding.

The upkeep should depend a bit on the amount of gold available in the players chest.
When you have a few billion golds you don't care about a 1000+ upkeep, but when you have around 100k you get really pissed off when you lose 10k during 1 map.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Baggy on July 20, 2011, 08:37:01 pm
around 1000-15000 since 3-4 months ,  EU1 or pecores..
Whos the troll?
You dosnt know anythings about this basic upkeep system.
Lets just say,  crpg economy is pure communism. Praise comrade chadz  .The correct money quantity is  important. Less is more....

Looms dont count so fail.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: LordRichrich on July 20, 2011, 10:00:24 pm
My infantry equipment:
Kettle Helmet
Byrnie
Mail Guantlets
Mail Chausses
Awlpike
Costs: 18,784 gold

To make it cav, add a rouncey and heavy lance
Cost: 37,496 gold

To have cavalry, with the second cheapest and first usable horse, itcosts me just under double my infantry rquipment. And it's not even heavy armour!

To use with a courser, which is the next horse I'd use (because I'm a western themed knight so why the hell would I use eastern horses?) It costs 48,324
That's the same as above but with a courser instead of a rouncey
As infantry, with 50k worth of equipment, you're unstoppable, look.
Great helm, transitional armour, shynbaulds and gauntlets costs 38255. This leaves you 12,000 to spend on a weapon, which polearm wise will get you anything up to the GLA!
So the balance of power is way out, as you can see.
So lower horse price a bit, because infantry can equip more than double armour for the same price!
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: ToxicKilla on July 20, 2011, 11:43:11 pm
I agree, horse upkeep is rediculous. Especially on heavy horses, which I get less kills when using. -_-
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Toffi on July 20, 2011, 11:46:43 pm
The developers are caring shit about horses and lancers not knowing what exactly they want to do... It's simply bullshit! First they lower the spped of the heavy lance.. now they raised it again? Well done... Thumbs up for that! You are really clever! Now I can change my MW lance back to the MW HEavy lance again, the one I got before... idiots
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Paul on July 21, 2011, 05:59:34 am
Damn idiot devs! They know nothing.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Lizard_man on July 21, 2011, 06:28:44 am
maybe lower the chance of repairs on horses, i made a post not so long ago about been constantly team switched to the losing team, and it seems to be every other map, so i don't make much money as it is, i also mentioned earlier today that the lower tier horses are terrible and not even worth using, if i want to play as cavalry i need a decent horse, i've even been resorting to riding my horse in pretty much peasant gear and repair after repair on my horse is completely fucking me, i've also had to resort to playing as infantry more and more, someone ingame said to me, "well don't ride a horse", well, it kinda sucks that i can't play my prefered class because i can't afford it...
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Tears of Destiny on July 21, 2011, 06:32:41 am
Damn idiot devs! They know nothing.

Darn, you changed it from the horse and... uh... certain shade of color statement... Afraid that the sarcasm would not translate well and be missed by some?  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Paul on July 21, 2011, 07:20:34 am
Nope, pun just sucked.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Tears of Destiny on July 21, 2011, 07:21:44 am
Nope, pun just sucked.

I do admit it took me a full twenty seconds to figure it out...
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on July 21, 2011, 04:54:46 pm
maybe lower the chance of repairs on horses, i made a post not so long ago about been constantly team switched to the losing team, and it seems to be every other map, so i don't make much money as it is, i also mentioned earlier today that the lower tier horses are terrible and not even worth using, if i want to play as cavalry i need a decent horse, i've even been resorting to riding my horse in pretty much peasant gear and repair after repair on my horse is completely fucking me, i've also had to resort to playing as infantry more and more, someone ingame said to me, "well don't ride a horse", well, it kinda sucks that i can't play my prefered class because i can't afford it...

same I have to play as inf just to save money and thats while wearing low armor, its stupid that I am "forced" to play as inf in order to save about 5K only to lose it after playing as cav for 2 rounds. Also do any of the devs actually have a cav build because all the devs I have seen all play as 2 handers?......
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wookimonsta on July 21, 2011, 05:11:05 pm
I do admit it took me a full twenty seconds to figure it out...

i still didnt get it
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Keshian on July 21, 2011, 05:18:26 pm
if I choose to go in normal gear

Palfrey
Heavy lance
Heraldic mail with tabard
Mail chausses
Mail guantlets
Mighty Poleaxe

in total if it breaks it will cost me around 1.2K plus (over 2K if the poleaxe breaks  :evil: )

now if I go in my heavy gear

Plated charger
Milanese Plate
Milanese Sallet
Shynbaulds
Plate Mittens
Mighty Poleaxe

now im not one of the people who have 100's of thousands of K sitting in my pocket I rarely get over 30K and keep it there, soI want to keep the little ammount I do have but I roughly worked out that if this breaks it will cost between 12K plus to repair these items before it would cost around 7K-8K. Its a big jump and even those who have a shit tone of money laying around will soon be broke by this upkeep.


Lol your light gear is a mid-range expensive lance and one of the most expensive polearms as secondary.  Its not the horse (palfrey) so much as such expesnive weaponry.  To put it into perspective, most polearmers on foot only go into battle with 1 polearm.  Use a cheaper secondary polearm if you are using a horse and heavy lance too.  Or switch to light lance with a mid-range melee polearm.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wookimonsta on July 21, 2011, 05:23:02 pm

Lol your light gear is a mid-range expensive lance and one of the most expensive polearms as secondary.  Its not the horse (palfrey) so much as such expesnive weaponry.  To put it into perspective, most polearmers on foot only go into battle with 1 polearm.  Use a cheaper secondary polearm if you are using a horse and heavy lance too.  Or switch to light lance with a mid-range melee polearm.

some good points, but since the heavy lance is useless on foot, and with the turning range at 40 degrees, the light lance is useless on horse since EVERYTHING outranges you.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Keshian on July 21, 2011, 05:24:52 pm
some good points, but since the heavy lance is useless on foot, and with the turning range at 40 degrees, the light lance is useless on horse since EVERYTHING outranges you.

I would disagree, going from 185 length to 175 length doesn't destroy your outranging most players.  What happens is you can no longer outrange heavy lance users so have to rely on better timing and positioning.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wookimonsta on July 21, 2011, 05:32:27 pm
I would disagree, going from 185 length to 175 length doesn't destroy your outranging most players.  What happens is you can no longer outrange heavy lance users so have to rely on better timing and positioning.

actually, i tried a heavy lance, to the front, those 10 range are important. Even fully extended the light lance doesnt go very far beyond the horses head.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on July 21, 2011, 05:32:56 pm
I would disagree, going from 185 length to 175 length doesn't destroy your outranging most players.  What happens is you can no longer outrange heavy lance users so have to rely on better timing and positioning.

2 handers can use a lolstab to outrange a Heavy lance so a Light lance  is even worse. Also with this new upkeep rise I dont think there is any polearm that is cheap -_-
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Leshma on July 21, 2011, 05:42:31 pm
Lol have you even touched a horse? They break every 2-5 rounds as Hunter says. Stop spouting random crap.

I ride my destrier a lot but not all the time. It's not my problem that you guys are dedicated horsemen, even in narrow town alleys...
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Overdriven on July 21, 2011, 05:51:41 pm
I ride my destrier a lot but not all the time. It's not my problem that you guys are dedicated horsemen, even in narrow town alleys...

So we should be forced to go as inf with shit armour for tons of rounds just to ride a horse for 2 rounds? Makes no sense. Entirely removes the point of dedicated cavalry. That's like saying the upkeep on all 2h should be massive. So for the rest of the time you should run around with a low level 1h till you can afford to use a 2h for 2 rounds.

I would disagree, going from 185 length to 175 length doesn't destroy your outranging most players.  What happens is you can no longer outrange heavy lance users so have to rely on better timing and positioning.

+10 range makes a huge difference. Most, if not all, lancers use the heavy lance at the moment. Lolstabs can out range even a heavy lance. Especially with the 40 degree angle. All they have to do is sidestep and lolstab. Which all but the most incompetent 2h can do.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wookimonsta on July 21, 2011, 05:54:03 pm
I ride my destrier a lot but not all the time. It's not my problem that you guys are dedicated horsemen, even in narrow town alleys...

good idea, lets make all weapon upkeep so massive that in order to use them for 2 rounds, you have to fight without any weapons for 10 rounds. That should balance things up.
Sillyness aside, horses cost way too damn much.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on July 21, 2011, 06:28:44 pm
I ride my destrier a lot but not all the time. It's not my problem that you guys are dedicated horsemen, even in narrow town alleys...

only people like templar tommy ride around on tiny town maps. and I have yet to see you on a horse last time I saw you you was playing as inf on a wide open map with very few buildings even those who are broke horsemen would go on horseback on that type of map.

Also the heavy lance is 190 reach so thats 15 more reach then a light and since the long spear was added its now even harder to play as cav on anymap since it sems every foot class has one even with 0 WPF.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: CaptainQuantum on July 30, 2011, 07:22:12 pm
I play 2 hand infantry mainly but have a cavalry alt and it's impossible to be dedicated cav. I use heavy lance, rouncey, white tunic over mail, nordic helmet and leather boots. I still struggle to go on my horse every round (even with a rouncey). I support a lowering of upkeep for cavalry even if it means more backstabs for my main because struggling for money with just a rouncey is just ridiculous.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Glyph on July 30, 2011, 10:05:15 pm
I play 2 hand infantry mainly but have a cavalry alt and it's impossible to be dedicated cav. I use heavy lance, rouncey, white tunic over mail, nordic helmet and leather boots. I still struggle to go on my horse every round (even with a rouncey). I support a lowering of upkeep for cavalry even if it means more backstabs for my main because struggling for money with just a rouncey is just ridiculous.
that's the point, if you have the most suckish horse that is playable(so not the freakin sumpter!!!) and bad armor and the only viable lance, you still loose money if you have bad luck. it's redicoules!

and Paul, please tell us what you think.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Paul on July 31, 2011, 05:01:42 pm
I want cookies.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Glyph on July 31, 2011, 09:54:05 pm
I want cookies.
didn't mean that Paul-.-, cmon, tell us what you think about the freakin topic!
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Tears of Destiny on July 31, 2011, 10:47:01 pm
didn't mean that Paul-.-, cmon, tell us what you think about the freakin topic!

I predict another clever response like "I think it is an interesting topic, would read again."
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Glyph on July 31, 2011, 11:06:03 pm
or, i didn't understand you?
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Paul on August 02, 2011, 12:14:34 pm
I think cav is fine and I want cookies. (Forgot to buy those last time. :( )
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Glyph on August 02, 2011, 12:19:31 pm
I think cav is fine and I want cookies. (Forgot to buy those last time. :( )
`dop you play cav?
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Paul on August 02, 2011, 12:34:33 pm
Hardly, I only have 5 cav chars(including main).
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 02, 2011, 01:11:21 pm
Hardly, I only have 5 cav chars(including main).
are any of them lancers?
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Paul on August 02, 2011, 02:59:58 pm
2
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 02, 2011, 03:23:13 pm
2

k, how many of the kills you do as a lancer are from the front, and how many are from the rear?
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Paul on August 02, 2011, 04:06:30 pm
Wait, who said that I score kills?
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Glyph on August 02, 2011, 05:13:22 pm
Wait, who said that I score kills?
mehhh
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 02, 2011, 07:17:17 pm
Wait, who said that I score kills?
then how would you know anything about lancing?
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Ylca on August 02, 2011, 07:56:07 pm
Horses are the hugest force multiplier in the game, they are priced accordingly in the upkeep system. One could argue that they are even more powerful than having heavy armor and we all know where even the average cavalry are located on the scoreboards (hint: look up).
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 03, 2011, 10:01:41 am
Horses are the hugest force multiplier in the game, they are priced accordingly in the upkeep system. One could argue that they are even more powerful than having heavy armor and we all know where even the average cavalry are located on the scoreboards (hint: look up).

horses are also the hugest target ingame. Try riding an unarmored horse more often anywhere near the main enemy force, if they spot you, chances are you will have alot of arrows flying your way immediatly. Not to mention everyone these days seems to have a pike somewhere.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Magikarp on August 03, 2011, 12:48:11 pm
Horses are the hugest force multiplier in the game, they are priced accordingly in the upkeep system. One could argue that they are even more powerful than having heavy armor and we all know where even the average cavalry are located on the scoreboards (hint: look up).
Bull, an idiot will just charge in and get himself killed. If he tops the scoreboard, it's because he finds people who are even more retarded and backstabs them.

I'd say only lower repairs on armoured horses, 4.2k for a mamluk horse for instance is overkill.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Ylca on August 03, 2011, 03:02:02 pm
Bull, an idiot will just charge in and get himself killed. If he tops the scoreboard, it's because he finds people who are even more retarded and backstabs them.

I'd say only lower repairs on armoured horses, 4.2k for a mamluk horse for instance is overkill.

So we're balancing on the worst instances of players now? If that were the case, a fool will rush in solo in plate armor without waiting for his team, and get stunlocked to death by a group of enemies. Should we increase the armor on plate based on that observation as well?
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Glyph on August 03, 2011, 03:36:09 pm
So we're balancing on the worst instances of players now? If that were the case, a fool will rush in solo in plate armor without waiting for his team, and get stunlocked to death by a group of enemies. Should we increase the armor on plate based on that observation as well?
no because that isn't the role of infantry, it is the role of cav.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 03, 2011, 03:46:05 pm
this thread isn't about buff cav, its just to make it so you can upkeep even shitty cav without a need for a constant x5
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Ylca on August 03, 2011, 05:45:35 pm
no because that isn't the role of infantry, it is the role of cav.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. The role of cav is to run in solo and die at the beginning of the round? To be impervious to damage? Cav already has insane mobility what is the downside to this advantage? Smart cavalry choose their battles at a whim and simply because there are a few who carry pikes doesn't mean that every other infantryman and especially archers are not insanely vulnerable to a cav flank.

My question remains, why trend down towards the lowest common denominator. Cav is a huge advantage, it should come at a heavy cost, much like plate is a huge advantage and comes at a heavy cost.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 03, 2011, 06:10:05 pm
I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. The role of cav is to run in solo and die at the beginning of the round? To be impervious to damage? Cav already has insane mobility what is the downside to this advantage? Smart cavalry choose their battles at a whim and simply because there are a few who carry pikes doesn't mean that every other infantryman and especially archers are not insanely vulnerable to a cav flank.

My question remains, why trend down towards the lowest common denominator. Cav is a huge advantage, it should come at a heavy cost, much like plate is a huge advantage and comes at a heavy cost.

uhm... shields are a huge advantage in some respects. For one thing, non-directional dependant blocking, stopping arrows.
Compared to non shielder classes, a shield is a huge advantage as it makes you invulnerable to ranged fire for a long time. Therefore shields should also come at a heavy cost.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Cup1d on August 03, 2011, 06:12:54 pm
Agree, leave horses as it is now and nerf shields.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Ylca on August 03, 2011, 06:13:56 pm
uhm... shields are a huge advantage in some respects. For one thing, non-directional dependant blocking, stopping arrows.
Compared to non shielder classes, a shield is a huge advantage as it makes you invulnerable to ranged fire for a long time. Therefore shields should also come at a heavy cost.

Shields do come at a heavy cost. They are a huge weight disadvantage which slows movement speed which removes the ability to disengage at will. Shields can also be destroyed, and higher level shields have a respectable upkeep cost of their own. Activating the shield slows a shielder down even more and on top of that 1handers have a penalty to weight which is an even greater speed penalty. Toss in the fact that shielders have to pay for both their weapon, their shield, and take a speed penalty and they are pretty balanced. Horses provide an incredible speed boost, give the ability to engage and disengage at will, and provide in similar manner to shield an extra reserve of hitpoints with the only drawback being they are expensive.

I still fail to see the problem here.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: ToxicKilla on August 03, 2011, 11:31:02 pm
Am I the only cav who can't even kill a lone archer? They wiggle around and make my horse into a pin cushion. Then I fall off and kill him, and pay a massive wod of cash at the end.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on August 04, 2011, 05:19:01 pm
Am I the only cav who can't even kill a lone archer? They wiggle around and make my horse into a pin cushion. Then I fall off and kill him, and pay a massive wod of cash at the end.

your not alone unlike some cav who use the arabian I choose to use a plafrey, rouncey or a destrier and archers can just run around me no matter what way I turn, its really annoying and no cav doesnt have insane mobility its only the arabian that does and that got nerfed because of it so you infomation is outdated on that.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Ylca on August 04, 2011, 05:48:58 pm
your not alone unlike some cav who use the arabian I choose to use a plafrey, rouncey or a destrier and archers can just run around me no matter what way I turn, its really annoying and no cav doesnt have insane mobility its only the arabian that does and that got nerfed because of it so you infomation is outdated on that.

Any horse is multiple times faster than any infantryman, to say cavalry doesn't have insane mobility is to willfully ignore this fact.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Vlad007 on August 05, 2011, 12:10:31 am
Yesterday on NA 1 My self Cavalieres_Huey and the lads bought out the Plated chargers for some formation couched lance action across a bridge blocked a group of archers and pikeman. God damn it was fun, a couple of times we managed to break throw their formation with about 6-7 of us doing a frontal charge (could only go 2 side by side because it was a narrow bridge). IT was so much fun to be apart of some organised cavalry doing frontal charges. BUT the Fing cost… it cost me over 11k for my 4 rounds of full plate action.

Is that fun no. how long does it take to make 11K as cav on the Aussie server “AGES”. Is this fair? NO.
Reduce up keep of horses or let some open maps be free of up keep. Or let some random rounds be free of up keep so people who are not power gamers can enjoy them selves.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Digglez on August 05, 2011, 01:31:30 am
Am I the only cav who can't even kill a lone archer? They wiggle around and make my horse into a pin cushion. Then I fall off and kill him, and pay a massive wod of cash at the end.

go much slower, be willing to take at least 1 hit while you line up a good swing.  try either thrusts, overheads & backswings instead of instead of forward side swings
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Ylca on August 05, 2011, 01:42:28 am
Yesterday on NA 1 My self Cavalieres_Huey and the lads bought out the Plated chargers for some formation couched lance action across a bridge blocked a group of archers and pikeman. God damn it was fun, a couple of times we managed to break throw their formation with about 6-7 of us doing a frontal charge (could only go 2 side by side because it was a narrow bridge). IT was so much fun to be apart of some organised cavalry doing frontal charges. BUT the Fing cost… it cost me over 11k for my 4 rounds of full plate action.

Is that fun no. how long does it take to make 11K as cav on the Aussie server “AGES”. Is this fair? NO.
Reduce up keep of horses or let some open maps be free of up keep. Or let some random rounds be free of up keep so people who are not power gamers can enjoy them selves.

Have you ever considered how fun it is for other players to fight the medieval equivalent of a tank? Hence why it's designed so that players can use them sometimes, but not always. I'm sorry you can't have mobility and near immunity to damage constantly, but i assure you everyone else on the ground is quite happy with the opportunity to actually play instead of watch a destruction derby.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Vlad007 on August 05, 2011, 02:55:59 am
I can understand what you are saying. But as a cav player I don’t want to ride my full plate set all the time but to use it like 15-20% of the time would be nice, now it is like 3%.

To play as cav gets the attention of every one. What is happening is that Cav are being taken out of the game because of the cost. I would like to be able to use my rouncey for gods sake and not require arms for the poor. As for your argument about mobility and near immunity that is complete BS, mobility yes, but when someone LOLstabs you in 1 shot when you are in full plate I don’t call that immunity.

Cav were extremely important to the success of Medieval armies, this is a Medieval themed game right? Let us at least be able to play with a  horse and some medium armour and make a little cash. I love being fully armoured but totally agree there should be limits, just not the lmiits that are in place currently
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Kafein on August 05, 2011, 03:21:51 am
Ylca, is seems to me you have a very biased opinion of cav. Have you tried it yourself ? Have you played cav when people camp roofs 5 maps (maps, not rounds) in a row ? How is it supposed to be easy when any decent archer can knock his arrow and hold it during "half an hour" waiting for you to come closer ?

Any horse is multiple times faster than any infantryman, to say cavalry doesn't have insane mobility is to willfully ignore this fact.

Has nothing to do with what you quote. It's not about speed but maneuver.


and provide in similar manner to shield an extra reserve of hitpoints with the only drawback being they are expensive.

I still fail to see the problem here.


Blocking with one's horse, interesting concept. AFAIK the rider can't decide who is hit between him and his horse. If the enemy hits the rider, the rider looses HP.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Vlad007 on August 05, 2011, 03:28:34 am
Quote
Ylca, is seems to me you have a very biased opinion of cav. Have you tried it yourself ?

Totaly agree, seems to have a chip on his shoulder about cav.

Cav can be powerfull but there are many vairables that need to be taken into account (flat ground, army make up etc) . Talking about account mine is empty because i play cav
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Mouse on August 05, 2011, 04:33:34 am
The problem was you wanted to play cavalry. You see if your class has a leg up on 2H/polearm spammers who run around out in the open without a shield thinking they should own everyone, you need to be nerfed. It's the cRPG way.

Archers? Nerfed.
Throwing? Nerfed.
Cavalry? Nerfed.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Vlad007 on August 05, 2011, 05:02:24 am
excuse my ignorance Mouse. I forgot about the 2H factor
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 05, 2011, 10:18:49 am
near immunity to damage

near immunity to damage

near immunity to damage

near immunity to damage

near immunity to damage

its obvious you never played cav :)
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Ylca on August 05, 2011, 12:20:38 pm
Ylca, is seems to me you have a very biased opinion of cav. Have you tried it yourself ? Have you played cav when people camp roofs 5 maps (maps, not rounds) in a row ? How is it supposed to be easy when any decent archer can knock his arrow and hold it during "half an hour" waiting for you to come closer ?

Has nothing to do with what you quote. It's not about speed but maneuver.



Blocking with one's horse, interesting concept. AFAIK the rider can't decide who is hit between him and his horse. If the enemy hits the rider, the rider looses HP.

I did play a generation as cavalry, i wasn't particularly interested in the class i'll admit but my points aren't based on any distaste for cav, i absolutely love to see the good ones on my team and they save my slow reloading self on more than one occasion. Honestly if you look over at archers who can't even carry multiple stacks of their second best arrow without going broke, cavalry have it super good.

its obvious you never played cav :)

Hey here's a thought, how about you actually discuss this topic instead of taking a quote i made about plated chargers having near immunity to damage and misrepresenting it as a statement i made about all cavalry. No one in the thread is stupid enough to have missed the point of that statement and you ham-fistedly trying to fox news quote me into irrelevance instead of actually taking on my points is saying a  lot more about you than me, freund.

That said, to the people who are actually discussing in good form- we've had a lot of back and forth what do you guys think a fair change to upkeep would be? I think prepatch was well too low, you guys think that the current rate is too high. How close to the middle do you want to go?
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Glyph on August 05, 2011, 12:24:10 pm
I did play a generation as cavalry, i wasn't particularly interested in the class i'll admit but my points aren't based on any distaste for cav, i absolutely love to see the good ones on my team and they save my slow reloading self on more than one occasion. Honestly if you look over at archers who can't even carry multiple stacks of their second best arrow without going broke, cavalry have it super good.

Hey here's a thought, how about you actually discuss this topic instead of taking a quote i made about plated chargers having near immunity to damage and misrepresenting it as a statement i made about all cavalry. No one in the thread is stupid enough to have missed the point of that statement and you ham-fistedly trying to fox news quote me into irrelevance instead of actually taking on my points is saying a  lot more about you than me, freund.

That said, to the people who are actually discussing in good form- we've had a lot of back and forth what do you guys think a fair change to upkeep would be? I think prepatch was well too low, you guys think that the current rate is too high. How close to the middle do you want to go?
back to what is was
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Kafein on August 05, 2011, 01:08:40 pm
Actually, it's not a problem anymore for SOME people to be heavy cav, but it's really sad that it will ruin you and more importantly fuck your autobalance consistantly.

Autobalance is influenced by equipment value, so if you are using a horse, you are better doing at the very least 2/1 k/d ratios because you and your horse are nearly as costly as 2 footmen.


The dev team says it wants diversity yet being heavy cav is impossible for most and completely dumb for the rest.

I like your comparison with archers.

Honestly if you look over at archers who can't even carry multiple stacks of their second best arrow without going broke, cavalry have it super good.

So now to get the picture about cav, imagine that your bow alone makes you go broke.

Furthermore, PC and other tank horses don't give immunity to damage at all. I would even say they are more dangerous to ride than other horses. First you have all the enemy lancers that will try to poke your back and will do very easily. Second you have the pikemen, xbowmen, throwers and archers that hear you coming from a mile away. In the case of pikemen, if you are stopped near 2 or three enemies, intelligent ones will hit you first and even in full plate, 4 or 5 hits of 2h/polearms will kill you. Your horse didn't even helped you in that case. Ranged classes are also a problem. First they can dodge your charge very easily, and second you can only rely on the charge damage itself, as it's easy as cake to hit the rider of those monsters (that's why tank horse riders all have shields). And still, only PC can survive an arbalest headshot (next hit kills them).
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 05, 2011, 01:38:29 pm
Hey here's a thought, how about you actually discuss this topic instead of taking a quote i made about plated chargers having near immunity to damage and misrepresenting it as a statement i made about all cavalry.

I'm sorry, but even saying that about a plated charger is silly. Plated chargers are NOT near invulnerable. yeh, they can absorb alot of damage, but any lancer on a plated charger is not doing it right and the only people who are hard to kill on it are people with steel shields. Even then though, take a cheap pole arm and rear em up, the riders backside is COMPLETELY exposed since he can only turn his shield so far.
I pretty regularly deal with heavy horses and i don't really have much of a problem not getting killed by them, as avoiding them is a joke.


All things aside, plated chargers are pretty damn rare. I can agree that their price should remain the same, its the non armored horse with such large bills. A courser costing 1.4k is silliness. 1k for a repair for a courser is more than enough.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Vanular on August 05, 2011, 04:17:50 pm
Am I the only cav who can't even kill a lone archer? They wiggle around and make my horse into a pin cushion. Then I fall off and kill him, and pay a massive wod of cash at the end.

Haha! I laughted.

This is my round. Ride around for 2 minutes, get no kills. Fall off. Proceed to kill 8 people on foot because I got dropped 'behind enemy lines' so to say. Chop chop archers.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: BlueKnight on August 05, 2011, 05:32:52 pm
Hello!

That's what I noticed.
I ride around on my champion war horse, then go for some guys to kill.I Hit 6 guys (usually archers) with heavy lance on ful speed with 7PS and they are all alive. Then I get 2 or 3 arrows and I am dead. In the end of the round I pay 1000 - 4000 upkeep. (transitional + warhorse are more than 3,5k).

When I take cheap gear, I ride a rouncey and take light lance. I can kill only farmers who have no armour. After my brave peasant-multikill my rouncy receives a hit from an archer ( 60% of horsie's HP is gone ) and then horsie get's another hit from archer and it's dead. then I run to kill somebody. The round upkeep would be something around 300 - 1000 ( with padded leather + light lance + rouncey + cheap gloves and boots and helmet )

It's really hard to succed in upkeep as horseman. You have to have a winning team all the time and you will still get killed by archers ( even if you have 70 body armour as I have -.- ). Usually it's 3 shots to kill me in my armour.

We need a change
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Kafein on August 05, 2011, 05:56:27 pm
I think that many non-cav people are focused on claiming that cav is easy because top cav players can rack kills unlike any other top players in other classes, and that in general k/d pumping as cav is easy (go for peasants, noobs etc.).

What they lack to see is that k/d means nothing when you only kill useless rabble. Most good (important) players learned to defend from cav effectively.

Many of my cav kills are 2h that think they are invincible or something. If we both have our optimal reach, I win. So they are better blocking and resuming their own business. Yet many 2h still try to outreach me and usually fail.

Also, there are very few cav compared to other classes, which means a good part are hardcore, very skilled and well-trained cav fanatics. I often see inf noobs and archer noobs, cav noobs however are very rare. Most of the bad cavs are old inf that try cav from time to time. But there are extremely few people that start as a cav when they join the game for the first time. I understand as it's quite unappealing for a new player : you need to save up big amounts of money to buy an half decent horse. All this means that while most classes are composed of a majority of under-average players, cav isn't. And this makes cav look like it's better. It's not, the players are better.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Tzar on August 05, 2011, 06:00:44 pm
Nothing is more easy then gaining kills while on a horse.

I say increase upkeep of horses.

especially the Arab and Courser

Sick of all you Torben/leed wannabe new comers bumping your team mates 24/7 to pad your kdr trying to killsteal on the 120 man server the server was unplayable before the latest Lance nerf and upkeep increase for anyone not on a pony

Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: BlueKnight on August 05, 2011, 06:04:16 pm
Yep ur right Kafein. As a good cavalry you can kill guys with even a bit shorter weapons ( light lance etc. ) most of the guys forget to stab a bit faster and they die. but still it is terrible that a common peasant can block a heavy lance with a wooden stick or sth. You shouldn't be able to block a lance with anything else than shield. also pikes should break after stopping the cav. and blocking with wooden weapons should be like with shield. the wooden weapon should have it's own HP like shield so after like 5 blocks with long spear it would just break and you would get hit. In fact if we took all the features from reality game would be balanced. There is no better balance than realism ( at least in my opinion )

Tzar.................................. no
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Kafein on August 05, 2011, 06:06:24 pm
Nothing is more easy then gaining kills while on a horse.

I say increase upkeep of horses.

especially the Arab and Courser

Sick of all you Torben/leed wannabe new comers bumping your team mates 24/7 to pad your kdr trying to killsteal on the 120 man server the server was unplayable before the latest Lance nerf and upkeep increase for anyone not on a pony

"U mad ?" pic in 3...2...1...

Yep ur right Kafein. As a good cavalry you can kill guys with even a bit shorter weapons ( light lance etc. ) most of the guys forget to stab a bit faster and they die. but still it is terrible that a common peasant can block a heavy lance with a wooden stick or sth. You shouldn't be able to block a lance with anything else than shield. also pikes should break after stopping the cav. and blocking with wooden weapons should be like with shield. the wooden weapon should have it's own HP like shield so after like 5 blocks with long spear it would just break and you would get hit. In fact if we took all the features from reality game would be balanced. There is no better balance than realism ( at least in my opinion )

Tzar.................................. no

I would not go that far. If the game was realistic the one-handed lance style would be allmost unused, dominated by couched lances and 1h cav. And lances would break on impact. And horses would not be like motorcycles, although they would deal much more damage by charging.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on August 05, 2011, 06:14:37 pm
The current setup's goal seems to be an attempt to force cav players to not use coursers or arabian cavalry shits on a regular basis. Instead, those horses, being extremely fast and awesome, are supposed to be taken out of the stables less frequently than are the rouncey's and desert horses and palfreys.

Grind on the shitty horses, get money, then spend it on good horses.

I just find the entire idea of balancing an item through the manipulation of its expense (and thus, really, the amount of time a player may actually use it) to be distasteful. It's rather much of a buzzkill to purchase a really cool item, only to be unable to use until hearty sums of gold have been earned--again.
-------------------------------------------------

I must also point out that cav isn't quite as overpowered as some might say it is. It is true that, on the right map, you may occasionally get hordes of cavalrymen kicking everyone's asses, but the form of "OP" that cav takes is merely different from the form of OP that, say, Goretooth takes when he's on a killing rampage.

The reason for this OPness is the very nature of the cRPG, and of those who play it. The game is unorganized, largely, and most teams consist of gaggle-fucks, which are themselves composed of egocentric player's whose goals range from "get kills" to "fight shit" to "stay alife". Cavalry players prey on the disorganized, the poorly equipped, the stragglers, and on those who have separated from their battle buddies. It follows that the greatest counter to cavalry are organization and awareness.

That point, however, is somewhat moot, for asking pubbers to organize themselves into even a slightly more organized gaggle-fuck formation than they would usually utilize is asking too much. Sometimes we see anti-cav organization--often after one or two rounds of hearty rape, but that is the exception rather than the norm. On a more practical level, cavalry can often be defeated by one or two players who, using the right weapons, take it upon themselves to focus on that particular task. These players will not rack up many kills, for their targets are horses, not the riders, who often carry shields or hold the down-block button constantly. These players will not get to enjoy the lulz of infantry combat, but instead will hang out on the flanks or rear of a gaggle-fuck with a pike, killing kill-hungry cavalry; or they will stand inside the safety of the gaggle-fuck and pump arrows into passing horses, in the process missing out on the chance to shoot some faces.

tl;dr: im bored and ima go play cRPG now.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: kongxinga on August 06, 2011, 04:42:58 pm
Most usable horses, meaning horses usable without having to exploit and ghost on teamspeak while using banner stack, are one hit point wonders. 2 good hits of anything will bring you down, and one hit kills are too common. Compare to plated men who can take several hits from large 2 handed weapons, and you can know what is a real tank. Dont forget the whiffing that plate often causes. The opponent has to get timing and distance perfect, while taking into account ping, while your strength stacked plate 2hand/polearm build can just ignore blocking and swing. To defeat this build you need lots of PS and survivability, so lets add strength, and plate, maybe some iron flesh.

Uh oh, you just became what you were trying to defeat. Now you are a plate man with a large weapon, you might need to block and feint against another plate man, but apart from that, swing away. So much for duelers having skill.

And heavens forbid if another lowly class interrupts your plate "duel" like a lancer punishing your lack of awareness, or an archer shooting you. If that happens head over to ask for a nerf of the class. In no way adapt and bring a shield or pike.

You might want to forgo the cost effective plate for a horse, and enjoy the following benefits.

1. Having your horse one shotted by anything (foot archers, crossbows, throwing), then dying as people shoot you trying to get up.

2. Getting bankrupted fast.

3. Getting dehorsed, and trying to go toe to toe with pure infantry duelist builds. enjoy your whiffs while he laughs in your face and swings without blocking your swing. Oh and you have no armour since the horse cost too much  so you die in one hit. According to the 2 hand lobby you lack skill since the RNG god did not give you full weapon damage and your ping made your timing off so you got a whiff instead of a slightly stunning 4+ damage hit, while the plated dueler has skill because he pressed LMB.

Meanwhile you perform well and get 10 4+ damage hits, but one whiff and you die, while the plate man has 1/2 life left. and he spent less than you in upkeep.

Right now horses are too expensive, while plate is too inexpensive for the massive benefits.

But what did you expect? Given chadz's location this horse hating vision of the game is natural. If chadz was from turkey like Armagan we might get more sensible horses and cav, but now, enjoy your germanic fetish for plate armour and oversized 2 hand weapons.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Tzar on August 06, 2011, 06:33:49 pm
Most usable horses, meaning horses usable without having to exploit and ghost on teamspeak while using banner stack, are one hit point wonders. 2 good hits of anything will bring you down, and one hit kills are too common. Compare to plated men who can take several hits from large 2 handed weapons, and you can know what is a real tank. Dont forget the whiffing that plate often causes. The opponent has to get timing and distance perfect, while taking into account ping, while your strength stacked plate 2hand/polearm build can just ignore blocking and swing. To defeat this build you need lots of PS and survivability, so lets add strength, and plate, maybe some iron flesh.

Uh oh, you just became what you were trying to defeat. Now you are a plate man with a large weapon, you might need to block and feint against another plate man, but apart from that, swing away. So much for duelers having skill.

And heavens forbid if another lowly class interrupts your plate "duel" like a lancer punishing your lack of awareness, or an archer shooting you. If that happens head over to ask for a nerf of the class. In no way adapt and bring a shield or pike.

You might want to forgo the cost effective plate for a horse, and enjoy the following benefits.

1. Having your horse one shotted by anything (foot archers, crossbows, throwing), then dying as people shoot you trying to get up.

2. Getting bankrupted fast.

3. Getting dehorsed, and trying to go toe to toe with pure infantry duelist builds. enjoy your whiffs while he laughs in your face and swings without blocking your swing. Oh and you have no armour since the horse cost too much  so you die in one hit. According to the 2 hand lobby you lack skill since the RNG god did not give you full weapon damage and your ping made your timing off so you got a whiff instead of a slightly stunning 4+ damage hit, while the plated dueler has skill because he pressed LMB.

Meanwhile you perform well and get 10 4+ damage hits, but one whiff and you die, while the plate man has 1/2 life left. and he spent less than you in upkeep.

Right now horses are too expensive, while plate is too inexpensive for the massive benefits.

But what did you expect? Given chadz's location this horse hating vision of the game is natural. If chadz was from turkey like Armagan we might get more sensible horses and cav, but now, enjoy your germanic fetish for plate armour and oversized 2 hand weapons.

You gotta work on your lobbyism skills your post is so full of fail arguments and none valid points even claiming your horse get 1 shotted by archers ect ect i dunno where to begin try stepping down from your pony and play infantry and then comeback and post.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 06, 2011, 06:35:46 pm
You gotta work on your lobbyism skills your post is so full of fail arguments and none valid points even claiming your horse get 1 shotted by archers ect ect i dunno where to begin you even claim plate armor is a benefit which is wrong try and step down from your pony and play infantry and then comeback and post.

I can one shot horses if they are one of the unarmoured ones and they are traveling towards me and I shoot them in the head.

8PD, MW Rus Bow, Standard arrows. Never fails.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 06, 2011, 06:36:55 pm
You gotta work on your lobbyism skills your post is so full of fail arguments and none valid points even claiming your horse get 1 shotted by archers ect ect i dunno where to begin try stepping down from your pony and play infantry and then comeback and post.

these days most cav spend alot of time as inf
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: BlueKnight on August 06, 2011, 07:42:04 pm
these days most cav spend alot of time as inf
Exactly. That's why I am hybrid. Earning money as helpful pikeman and then loosing as tank.

BTW Kafein change your avatar to the last one. :-)
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Leshma on August 06, 2011, 08:06:04 pm
Increase the upkeep on horses, seriously.

I haven't seen this many armored horses since first upkeep patch went online.

Price is high but some obviously can pay it. Make them pay more for that luxury.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Digglez on August 06, 2011, 08:13:32 pm
Increase the upkeep on horses, seriously.

I haven't seen this many armored horses since first upkeep patch went online.

Price is high but some obviously can pay it. Make them pay more for that luxury.

Repair for a Plated Charger is 4,592.  Which is 19 ticks of x5...I think they're expensive enough chief
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Glyph on August 07, 2011, 12:48:25 am
Increase the upkeep on horses, seriously.

I haven't seen this many armored horses since first upkeep patch went online.

Price is high but some obviously can pay it. Make them pay more for that luxury.
even if heavy horses are used more this patch, it doesn't mean cav is better now(people use it more because more people sell their looms now) it's just a different gameplay as cav, you try to kill other kinds of people and by that helping your team in a different way
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: BlueKnight on August 07, 2011, 12:59:39 am
More people use heavy horses because all those light are dead after 2 shots ( rouncey etc. ) So the only way to get to the enemy is taking heavier horse. I hate when I can't reach my enemy because he is shooting my horse and even if I reach him, usually 7PS, speeding and heavy lance is not enough to kill a common archer.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Overdriven on August 07, 2011, 01:14:20 am
Yup...even my champ courser goes down to 2 arrows far to frequently. Not even head shots :( Mind you, the champ part means that even a direct headshot won't kill it, it will lose 99% of it's health though :lol:

Upkeep should certainly be a lowered a lot. I use my courser every time I play my HA build more out of stubbornness than anything. And the fact most of the time I'm playing it there are other GK's and we can manage to get enough of a x5 to sustain it.

But this is baring in mind I'm an HA. The lightest cav build. I pity those poor sods who actually have to wear any kind of armour on a horse and attempt to earn money.

On the heavy horses front, I definitely haven't noticed more of them around. The only time I use my Mamluk is when GK decide to rape a server with all heavy horses. But even then I'll be lucky if I can use it for 3 rounds without an insane repair going through.

Either lower upkeep on horses, or buff the lower tier horses extensively. That's the solution. The lower tier horses just aren't worth the price. Hell a god damn sumpter costs 5000 gold and you can run the same speed as that horse  :lol:
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: kongxinga on August 07, 2011, 01:44:16 am
You gotta work on your lobbyism skills your post is so full of fail arguments and none valid points even claiming your horse get 1 shotted by archers ect ect i dunno where to begin try stepping down from your pony and play infantry and then comeback and post.

I will work on my lobbyism skills, and you can work on reading comprehension.

As several people have chimed in, one hit kills are common, and 2 hit kills are pretty much the norm. for horses. The stars align when my horse survives 3 hits. Maybe you have not played cavalry recently?

The amount of plate one can stack for the cost of a cheap HA build nowadays is obscene. And if plateman stacks that much plate he is pretty much immune to your arrows, completely nullifying that build. You got to get him with speed bonus, because trying to duel him on foot will be whiff heaven. And this is the cheapest horse build. And for laughs do you want to know how many arrow hits it takes to kill a plateman? Arrow hits, not actual shots, since you will miss some. You spent all this money to be ineffective horseman, while he wades around, a medieval bulldozer pressing LMB and telling other people that they dont have the 'skill', whatever that is, but I assume it means the 'skill' to go a strength stack cost effective plate build.

Plate is now very cost effective in comparison to horses after the horse price changes. And the relative cost effectiveness should be bought more in line with earlier patches, and lowering horse upkeep is ther best way to do that.

And I play HA out of stubborness too.

Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Shinobi on August 08, 2011, 12:11:49 pm
Increase the upkeep on horses, seriously.

I haven't seen this many armored horses since first upkeep patch went online.

Price is high but some obviously can pay it. Make them pay more for that luxury.

/This

They used to be rare now they are plenty and in every match suitable for horses.

Also what I dont like is when even if you hit the horses dead on the riders weapon will connect with you the next split second anyway. on foot at least the guy stagger on hit but sitting on a horse nothing happens unless you get the rider. In short the horse should react too, if that happen then I could support armored horses getting buffed.   
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 08, 2011, 02:07:45 pm
/This

They used to be rare now they are plenty and in every match suitable for horses.

Also what I dont like is when even if you hit the horses dead on the riders weapon will connect with you the next split second anyway. on foot at least the guy stagger on hit but sitting on a horse nothing happens unless you get the rider. In short the horse should react too, if that happen then I could support armored horses getting buffed.

actually, most polearms will make a horse stop dead in its tracks and rear up if you hit it from the front.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Overdriven on August 08, 2011, 02:18:22 pm
Also what I dont like is when even if you hit the horses dead on the riders weapon will connect with you the next split second anyway. on foot at least the guy stagger on hit but sitting on a horse nothing happens unless you get the rider. In short the horse should react too, if that happen then I could support armored horses getting buffed.

That only happens if you're using a short arse weapon. The stab on most polearms/2h will out range the lance head on every time.The horse rears up, making it almost impossible to get a decent hit in quickly. Add on the fact that a stationary cav is more often than not a dead cav pretty quickly, then I really don't see you're issue.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Baggy on August 08, 2011, 04:15:35 pm
/This

They used to be rare now they are plenty and in every match suitable for horses.

Also what I dont like is when even if you hit the horses dead on the riders weapon will connect with you the next split second anyway. on foot at least the guy stagger on hit but sitting on a horse nothing happens unless you get the rider. In short the horse should react too, if that happen then I could support armored horses getting buffed.   
Blame the market noy upkeep then, dont blame heavy cav for raping you when thye have clear weaknesses.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Glyph on August 11, 2011, 03:50:02 pm
completely true
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Lizard_man on August 11, 2011, 04:02:22 pm
just bought some cheap infantry gear, gonna have to grind as infantry for a while if i want to keep on playing as cavalry... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Glyph on August 11, 2011, 04:25:09 pm
just bought some cheap infantry gear, gonna have to grind as infantry for a while if i want to keep on playing as cavalry... :rolleyes:
how much do you have on equipment without heirloom worth?
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Lizard_man on August 11, 2011, 04:52:33 pm
my gear including my horse is rather expensive i must admit, but i've been switching to really cheap gear and i'm still losing money, still using my champ destrier of course, i made an earlier post explaining though, other than having to pay for my horse every other round, i pretty much get switched to the losing team every map, so the second i get a decent mulitiplier, it gets taking away from me because i get switched to the losing team... :cry:
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Riddaren on August 11, 2011, 11:22:42 pm
You already pay a price for using a horse (skill points in riding) so I don't see why they should be as expensive as they are now.
It's not like everyone would get riding skill all of a sudden if the prices were decreased by as much as 50% (which would be a much more fair price).

Being 1H heavy cav (or cav in general) is extremely expensive and it is far from fair simply because no other class is better than another.
Being longbowmen is cheap in comparison and probably the best allround class in the game.
Just take a look at these builds, both level 35 archers:

No other class benefits as much from being level 35 as the archer while melee cavalry probably is the class that is least buffed by higher level.

(click to show/hide)

Seriously. The longbowman can beat any opponent in almost any situation while cavalry players, even on armoured horses needs to stay away from longbowmen in fear of getting themselves or their horses owned.

As a foot archer I could use the same equipment every round. With a charger (3700 repair cost) I can play 1/5 rounds with it...
If anything should cost 4000k to repair it is the longbow. Not a charger.

I think a 50% decrease in price of all horses would be fair.
Then, cavalry players can actually be cavalry players every round. Just like 2H players and archers can.


/ Considering becoming 100% longbowman instead of 20% 1H heavy cav.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Sir_Mateusz on August 11, 2011, 11:50:34 pm
Lower upkeep PLEASE! At least for unarmored horses.
As cav it's not possible to earn money now. Only if I am ridding Rouncey + heavy lance +very light armor (gambeson or something) i can earn some money but survivability = 0
~5 rounds with Courser and medium armor (Heraldic Mail) and i am bankrupt again.
I know I can play without horse but i don't want to!
Because of high upkkep i don't play as often as before and I belive i am not alone.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Warpeasant on August 12, 2011, 12:32:50 am
ah i see-  than plz lower upkeep for flamberge 2 plz and while your at it i really like to wear my lordly heirloomed full plate with ceased greaves, armet and heavy gauntlets every round (it s just around 140k of gear) + it just look s so nice with the flamberge... and the upkeep of around 4k for a lost round is just to high... can you maybe make it like 40 gold?

I think i vote NO... :twisted:

Can't see the need to take my best liked gear, be it the flamberge (1.2k upkeep) or anything else every round, and i can't even bump with my heavy gear (what a shame)...

i like what it is all about now: keep the good stuff for special occasions and dress up (or ride up) to impress once in a while and if it get's to expensive take a lame sumpter horse (or just don t repair your plated charger untill it can't even wear it s own armour anymore 8-))...
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 12, 2011, 12:38:46 am
Ah I See. Then lower upkeep for flamberge too please and while you're at it I really like to wear my lordly heirloomed full plate with cased greaves armet and heavy gauntlets every round, as it just looks so nice with the flamberge. Also, the upkeep of around 4k for a lost round is just too high... can you maybe make it like 40 gold?

I think I shall vote no. :twisted:

Can't see the need to take my best liked gear be it flamberge (1.2k upkeep) or anything else every round, and I can't even bump into my heavy gear...

What it's all about now is: Keep the good stuff for special occasions and dress up (or ride up) to impress once in a while and if it get's too expensive take a lame sumpter horse (or just don't repair your plated charger until it can't even wear it's own armour anymore :)

You proved that you do have a working ' key so WHY DO YOU USE SPACES INSTEAD?!
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Warpeasant on August 12, 2011, 12:50:27 am
Off topic, might be because i am heavily under the influence but thx for the comment... :oops:
I tried to change my post to better english (I am no native enlish speaker by the way, as you can probably tell by the post and my ghetto english dictionary sometime's turn's out funny stuff).
While we are at it why do you speak in CAPS? I AM NOT DEAF!
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Simon_Templar on August 12, 2011, 12:54:07 am
A Big Prob is want the People dont spoke children is. And know listen!!!!! Maybe you learn someting. IS: That when there is somebody who know have something to say in this Fuckin CRPG mod he listen.

 Frist Point. I see a big Problem for Players who play for the frist time. or for People who want start playin Crpg. Becouse you allways have to pay ass a beginner more money then less a Pro who has Gen10 or higher. it is like this fuckin way. When get so a snop then try and begin from start with Gen 1 you will see.

Second Point
Now the Crouser is to expensive for sure. But this is not my biggest Problem. The Prob is . Why the hell it is now 2 point slower then bevor. When you buy a horse in real life. it has allways the same condisons or not. Or you changer think that i can make it slower from mage hands. When it get slower it have to get better armor. It is Physik. idiots. So i dont give a crap what People say becouse theay dont have sweet ideas anyway. You can Change everything but not how the world is working.

Third Point
From what idiots you get allways this stupid ideas. Is there somebody who said bullshit in your ears or what. I am really pissed of all this changes allways.

When all this begin this changes for Crpg. You have to get a other idea. How woud it be to make Barikades. like small spears where the cav cant ride into. "And theay Die when theay do for sure" (like a siege shield that people can buy and can build on the map. 8 or 10 meters long) this woud be a sweet change.
Like in Medival 2 what you can build in front of the archers. Did somebody get the idea bevor. or you still idiots who dont can think about there shit.
I dont know. maybe it became boring for you guys that you have to change.

Fourth Point
How woud it be to make it in Sieges. Like in Red Orchestra. That you have to capture more flags to win. And that the Respawn point get changed to so that people dont have to walk allways that match. This are good changes.

So this is what i think and when somebody next time think about changes . Change this!!!!!

Kiss my ass iam out
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Sir_Mateusz on August 12, 2011, 01:05:58 am
I think i vote NO... :twisted:

No offense but I think you are idiot or you never played as cavalryman.
And first of all Sumpter Hore isn't a horse. It's only good as taxi to castle wall on siege server.

As Inf you can wear cheap armor and you can still kill some players - actually you are even faster! This isn't bad. Right?
But cavalryman ridding on SumpterFuckingMule + Cheap polearm (Boar spear lol) is dead from very beginning of the round.

Only 1.200 for flameberge ? I have to pay 670 H.lance, about 200 (i dont remember) for cheap shield diff 2, and about 670 for cheapest horse Rouncey. As i know Flamberge is very good sword lol
So i pay more than you for using worst cavalryman items and you have to pay only for your sword.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Warpeasant on August 12, 2011, 09:02:31 am
Sir mateusz : Guess what i was joking with the sumpter horse, on second thougt - for u i wasn t...
my bad flamberge upkeep is around 1.4 k  right now and everything else i would be wearing in your assumption is peasant gear... by that assumption made my upkeep would be higher than your s with just a weapon and i can t even outrun nor bump u so i guess we would be even on the battlefield if (no offence) you would not be such a noob  :P and constantly attack me with your heavy lance (instant kill even in good armour) or bump me from behind while i am busy fighting that lvl 3 peasant...

Simon Templar : Yes you are so right... when i started playing and riding my warhorse into battle on Gen 2 i had to actually pay for that sucker... took me ages to get that money just to buy it, since there was no klick-one minute over here you get your Gold - ah just stand there do nothing scream your only lvl 2 and are useless anyhow leaching...

YOUR (Frist Point) not like thing s havn't changed  -  now you don t even have to pay upkeep anymore on your first Gen a whole bunch of lvl's and can get some spare money from the Start...

Your (Second Point) I already voted NO :evil:

YOUR (Third Point
From what idiots you get allways this stupid ideas. Is there somebody who said bullshit in your ears or what. I am really pissed of all this changes allways.) I am not sure if i really want to read on but the idea is not bad - my idea for that, take lesson's on programming and implement it yourself

YOUR (Fourth Point) Hmmm old idea maybe?!? Guess so...

Let's just say we both don't understand eachothers english and speak of the same thing...

Oh and BTW kiss your own ass i am not into that stuff you seem to like  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Glyph on August 12, 2011, 09:37:29 am
Sir mateusz : Guess what i was joking with the sumpter horse, on second thougt - for u i wasn t...
my bad flamberge upkeep is around 1.4 k  right now and everything else i would be wearing in your assumption is peasant gear... by that assumption made my upkeep would be higher than your s with just a weapon and i can t even outrun nor bump u so i guess we would be even on the battlefield if (no offence) you would not be such a noob  :P and constantly attack me with your heavy lance (instant kill even in good armour) or bump me from behind while i am busy fighting that lvl 3 peasant...

Simon Templar : Yes you are so right... when i started playing and riding my warhorse into battle on Gen 2 i had to actually pay for that sucker... took me ages to get that money just to buy it, since there was no klick-one minute over here you get your Gold - ah just stand there do nothing scream your only lvl 2 and are useless anyhow leaching...

YOUR (Frist Point) not like thing s havn't changed  -  now you don t even have to pay upkeep anymore on your first Gen a whole bunch of lvl's and can get some spare money from the Start...

Your (Second Point) I already voted NO :evil:

YOUR (Third Point
From what idiots you get allways this stupid ideas. Is there somebody who said bullshit in your ears or what. I am really pissed of all this changes allways.) I am not sure if i really want to read on but the idea is not bad - my idea for that, take lesson's on programming and implement it yourself

YOUR (Fourth Point) Hmmm old idea maybe?!? Guess so...

Let's just say we both don't understand eachothers english and speak of the same thing...

Oh and BTW kiss your own ass i am not into that stuff you seem to like  :rolleyes:
as infantry you can wear plate easily 24/7 if you go for the same prices we do on equipment.(up to 50k)
gothic plate 25k
sugerloaf helmet 8k
iron greaves 3k
mail gauntlets 4k
bec de cordin 10k
=50k, which is what you get when riding a destrier 24k
heavy lance 10k
knightly heater shield 4k
mail gauntlets 4k
mail boots 3k
kettle helmet 2k
tunic over mail 4k
=51k
and than you don't even have a sidearm which you need except when you are really good with a heavy lance on the ground and can chamber. which most people can't do in a fight.
the armor which i picked is the opposite of a good armor really.
the destreir is equivalent to gothic plate, no even more, because if you have gothic plate you don't need body armor. that's absurt in my oppinion. it's not realistic and not fair either.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 12, 2011, 10:04:00 am
A Big Prob is want the People dont spoke children is. And know listen!!!!! Maybe you learn someting. IS: That when there is somebody who know have something to say in this Fuckin CRPG mod he listen.

I'm not sure i understand what you are trying to say, could you explain it less angrily?
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Overdriven on August 12, 2011, 03:08:42 pm
Sir mateusz : Guess what i was joking with the sumpter horse, on second thougt - for u i wasn t...
my bad flamberge upkeep is around 1.4 k  right now and everything else i would be wearing in your assumption is peasant gear... by that assumption made my upkeep would be higher than your s with just a weapon and i can t even outrun nor bump u so i guess we would be even on the battlefield if (no offence) you would not be such a noob  :P and constantly attack me with your heavy lance (instant kill even in good armour) or bump me from behind while i am busy fighting that lvl 3 peasant...

You sir...are an idiot.

You're comparing a flamberge (best 2h) to a medium tier horse. Now take the top tier horses (Mamluk, Plated Charger) and make that comparison again (best vs best). Who would be paying more upkeep?  :wink:

If a cavalrymen wore his best armour, took his best weapon and heaviest horse, he'd be paying at least twice as much a fully armoured, heaviest/best equipped infantrymen.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Okkam on August 12, 2011, 03:56:00 pm
well. At least sword doesnt eat too much.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: LordRichrich on August 12, 2011, 04:40:10 pm
My guy uses 30k worth of equip for cavalry, I use mail tunic, mail mittens, flat topped helm, leather boots, lance and long bardiche. If you minus the horse gear, that's grinding level for a infantry man!
I'm not even that good a cavalry man, when I get 4 kills in a round it's almost amazing but I get 4 kills more often on foot than horse
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Warpeasant on August 12, 2011, 05:54:35 pm
You sir...are an idiot.

You're comparing a flamberge (best 2h) to a medium tier horse. Now take the top tier horses (Mamluk, Plated Charger) and make that comparison again (best vs best). Who would be paying more upkeep?  :wink:

If a cavalrymen wore his best armour, took his best weapon and heaviest horse, he'd be paying at least twice as much a fully armoured, heaviest/best equipped infantrymen.

You Sir seem to be a smart ass, so what you are saying is basicly that you pay more upkeep if you use 2 more inventory slot s than me as a 2hander?!?  :?

I think it is really not fair to compare the plated charger - wich is a weapon that can do probably more damage on it's own without you (obvious trololo) or any other rider by bumping me, with my poor flamberge lying there on the ground beside s my dead body doing nothing.

In conclusion and short just my own oppinion  :rolleyes: once again: Nobody really stops you from having my cheap build, but if you want to be special looking down on poor infantry man that don t see you coming some time s or have to jump across the plain's from you, yes you should pay for it, just like me if i want to be a cav. overall your using at least one more inventory slot than anybody else and don't even get slowed down by that... TY
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: LordRichrich on August 12, 2011, 06:44:05 pm
the main thing about this is not to make high tier horses more usable you idiots, but to make up to the Palfrey at least, usuable all the time with low end gear
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Sir_Mateusz on August 12, 2011, 10:33:59 pm
Sir mateusz : Guess what i was joking with the sumpter horse, on second thougt - for u i wasn t...
my bad flamberge upkeep is around 1.4 k  right now and everything else i would be wearing in your assumption is peasant gear... by that assumption made my upkeep would be higher than your s with just a weapon and i can t even outrun nor bump u so i guess we would be even on the battlefield if (no offence) you would not be such a noob  :P and constantly attack me with your heavy lance (instant kill even in good armour) or bump me from behind while i am busy fighting that lvl 3 peasant...
Ohhh i killed you few times in a row:(( ? Don't cry its only a game.
I am noob because I killed you from behind when you were busy ? WTF ?! Should I wait and wistle to get your attention ? OK but wear something pink that i saw you.
I do bumps for allied infantry fighting with you to help him kill you - its called teamwork or tactic. As lancer its better for me to stab you than bump.
Its WAR i dont care you are bussy fighting or fapfapfaping with lvl3 pesant if there is possibility I strike - this is how cavalry works in M&B.

After last rebalance MW Heavy lance + my  PS7 rarely kills with one blow, even light armored bowman sometimes can survive one good blow. Other lancers can confirm this for sure.

You Sir seem to be a smart ass, so what you are saying is basicly that you pay more upkeep if you use 2 more inventory slot s than me as a 2hander?!?  :?
I think it is really not fair to compare the plated charger - wich is a weapon that can do probably more damage on it's own without you (obvious trololo) or any other rider by bumping me, with my poor flamberge lying there on the ground beside s my dead body doing nothing.
Who cares about slots if you as 2h-Fighter need only your sword  (oh and skill you obviously don't have) to be effective on battlefield. If you can't evade bumps its your problem I think - many good players don't let me bump them so easily, or not at all.
Oh and you know you can also use your big sword to kill me with one strike? Seriously its not a joke ! Practice more, cry less.

the main thing about this is not to make high tier horses more usable you idiots, but to make up to the Palfrey at least, usuable all the time with low end gear
Yes, heavy armored horses upkkep should be high as it is, because these horses are almost bulletproof, and you have to pay for this great benefit.
Lowered should be only light horses like Courser, Arabian etc.. But not so much of course. I think before update prices were OK (990 for Courser). Rouncey upkeep is OK now in my opinion.

We should pay more for ability to ride, but without exaggeration.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Overdriven on August 13, 2011, 12:04:50 am
You Sir seem to be a smart ass, so what you are saying is basicly that you pay more upkeep if you use 2 more inventory slot s than me as a 2hander?!?  :?

I think it is really not fair to compare the plated charger - wich is a weapon that can do probably more damage on it's own without you (obvious trololo) or any other rider by bumping me, with my poor flamberge lying there on the ground beside s my dead body doing nothing.

In conclusion and short just my own oppinion  :rolleyes: once again: Nobody really stops you from having my cheap build, but if you want to be special looking down on poor infantry man that don t see you coming some time s or have to jump across the plain's from you, yes you should pay for it, just like me if i want to be a cav. overall your using at least one more inventory slot than anybody else and don't even get slowed down by that... TY

Eh...that argument makes no sense. A full build 2h only really needs the sword. Anything else is an extra. A full build lancer for example, needs a heavy lance, a sword or some other melee weapon and a shield (unless melee is a 2h). So yeeeeah...your build is far cheaper even using full equipment. A medium rate cavalrymen would still cost more than a heavy infantrymen.

The plated charger doesn't actually do that much damage any more. It's simply to slow. Unless you're bumping guys on 10% health, you aren't likely to get a kill. Your poor flamberge? Do you not know how to use it? That thing is longer than a lance with a stab. Stab the bloody horse and you stop it in it's tracks.

Don't even bring up back stabbing. Fact is if you are that clueless that you can't attack a horse whilst you are in melee, then an infantryman is probably going to get you from behind anyway.

I'm not saying we shouldn't pay for it  :rolleyes: The fact is however, that we pay far to much for it. Horses were recently nerfed, however upkeep got more expensive at the same time. The lower tier horses simply aren't worth it as anyone on a courser, arabian or destrier could take you all out with a blink of an eye, as shown by even my ability to simply ride behind anyone on these horses shooting them (champ courser). Unless of course you are rolling heavy armour. So it only makes sense to lower the upkeep all round. Not even by a huge amount. For example the courser costs around 1300 on upkeep. Make it 1000 and I'd be happy. If you're on the losing team and are only making 50 gold a min (bearing in mind length of round increases break ability) then that already a big difference.
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Simon_Templar on August 13, 2011, 12:19:58 am
Warpesant!!!! You will never get a better critik then myn. I was yesterday a bit angry. So i am sorry when i break a point.

But you will never get better ideas from other players belive me. The thing is maybe change this things and dont change allways the balance of Cavalery

Now Crpg plays like WOW. World of Fuckin Warcraft. When you wanna give this mod a bit niveau back then get the changes inside what i said.
Sorry. So try to make this barikades. (For horses) or make more mods like siege or Battle.

In siege when you get a siege tower at the wall the spawn point change in some maps so it is possible to make it like in Redorchestra.
The Prob is that so match People read Bullshit but no nice ideas. Match talking for nothing. So change this and dont excuse. (For Epic Battles)

And one thing what sucks me too. Is that i cant make my Alt a Main. I only wanna test it and know i have to start from begin. With new main.
Allways this crep. Sorry when i am a working person and i dont have the time to play that match like the other assholes. You make it imposible for People who has a bit niveu to play this game. And this is why the Kraut cant even give you good ideas. You will kill Crpg with your on hands you will see. Becouse only People theay has no real live playin this game. (like in World of Warcraft)
Title: Re: Lower upkeep on horses
Post by: Warpeasant on August 13, 2011, 10:43:41 am
@Simon i am not even arguing anymore, i already stated my point, as my oppinion and there it shall stand till the end of the Internet! Simon say's: Warpeasant go away...ok,ok...

@Overdriven ok, i can accept your oppinion that you pay to much (it s your oppinion after all), that still doesn t make it my oppinion.

Eh...that argument makes no sense. A full build 2h only really needs the sword. Anything else is an extra. A full build lancer for example, needs a heavy lance, a sword or some other melee weapon and a shield (unless melee is a 2h).

 :arrow:Ah, i get you... so if if i am a full build 2 hander with a bastard sword, i better don t bring anything else on the battlefield to fight shielder's or mybe even a spear to fight cav  :wink:

The plated charger doesn't actually do that much damage any more. It's simply to slow. Unless you're bumping guys on 10% health, you aren't likely to get a kill. Your poor flamberge? Do you not know how to use it? That thing is longer than a lance with a stab. Stab the bloody horse and you stop it in it's tracks.

 :arrow:Now i know how you used to get your kill's are you sad that horse bumping got nerfed so bad? :P Don t worry i know how to use my flamberge...

Don't even bring up back stabbing. Fact is if you are that clueless that you can't attack a horse whilst you are in melee, then an infantryman is probably going to get you from behind anyway.

 :arrow:Sometime s they even get my enemy making them fall and giving me an easy kill  :lol:

I'm not saying we shouldn't pay for it  :rolleyes: The fact is however, that we pay far to much for it. Horses were recently nerfed, however upkeep got more expensive at the same time. The lower tier horses simply aren't worth it as anyone on a courser, arabian or destrier could take you all out with a blink of an eye, as shown by even my ability to simply ride behind anyone on these horses shooting them (champ courser). Unless of course you are rolling heavy armour. So it only makes sense to lower the upkeep all round. Not even by a huge amount. For example the courser costs around 1300 on upkeep. Make it 1000 and I'd be happy. If you're on the losing team and are only making 50 gold a min (bearing in mind length of round increases break ability) then that already a big difference.
[/quote]

 :arrow:That s ok and approved, i don t have any problem with this, it s your oppinion afterall  :mrgreen:

@Sir_Mateusz

Yes Plz whistle next Time and i Promiss to wear Pink so You can find me more easely... I wonder if i get the Dress at the Lady M. Store in my Town.
I can t remember if you ever killed me more than once (in a row is probably a little exageration) but i am sure i never started to whine...
let's just find out the next time i see you on a server oh and plz don't GTX if i kill you and your horsy more than once...


Oh my fucking god! Michael Jackson is pressing rape charges against some dude who totally fucked his kids! The IRONY!

Hmmm last but not least IMHO: rofl,lmao,omg..omfg,I can't believe this! WTF Muhahahahaha, trolololo i see noobrage incoming on a horse! He s killin AFK S at spawn again...Uggggh just ate about fifteen piece of chocolate gotta learn to control myself when flying first class or they'll cancel my modelling contract Peasant OUT and promissing not to troll this thread again!