Lower upkeep on horses

[Kafein]

Ylca, is seems to me you have a very biased opinion of cav. Have you tried it yourself ? Have you played cav when people camp roofs 5 maps (maps, not rounds) in a row ? How is it supposed to be easy when any decent archer can knock his arrow and hold it during "half an hour" waiting for you to come closer ?

Any horse is multiple times faster than any infantryman, to say cavalry doesn't have insane mobility is to willfully ignore this fact.

Has nothing to do with what you quote. It's not about speed but maneuver.

and provide in similar manner to shield an extra reserve of hitpoints with the only drawback being they are expensive.

I still fail to see the problem here.

Blocking with one's horse, interesting concept. AFAIK the rider can't decide who is hit between him and his horse. If the enemy hits the rider, the rider looses HP.

[Vlad007]

Ylca, is seems to me you have a very biased opinion of cav. Have you tried it yourself ?

Totaly agree, seems to have a chip on his shoulder about cav.

Cav can be powerfull but there are many vairables that need to be taken into account (flat ground, army make up etc) . Talking about account mine is empty because i play cav

[Mouse]

The problem was you wanted to play cavalry. You see if your class has a leg up on 2H/polearm spammers who run around out in the open without a shield thinking they should own everyone, you need to be nerfed. It's the cRPG way.

Archers? Nerfed.
Throwing? Nerfed.
Cavalry? Nerfed.

[Vlad007]

excuse my ignorance Mouse. I forgot about the 2H factor

[Wookimonsta]

near immunity to damage

near immunity to damage

near immunity to damage

near immunity to damage

near immunity to damage

its obvious you never played cav

[Ylca]

Ylca, is seems to me you have a very biased opinion of cav. Have you tried it yourself ? Have you played cav when people camp roofs 5 maps (maps, not rounds) in a row ? How is it supposed to be easy when any decent archer can knock his arrow and hold it during "half an hour" waiting for you to come closer ?

Has nothing to do with what you quote. It's not about speed but maneuver.



Blocking with one's horse, interesting concept. AFAIK the rider can't decide who is hit between him and his horse. If the enemy hits the rider, the rider looses HP.

I did play a generation as cavalry, i wasn't particularly interested in the class i'll admit but my points aren't based on any distaste for cav, i absolutely love to see the good ones on my team and they save my slow reloading self on more than one occasion. Honestly if you look over at archers who can't even carry multiple stacks of their second best arrow without going broke, cavalry have it super good.

its obvious you never played cav

Hey here's a thought, how about you actually discuss this topic instead of taking a quote i made about plated chargers having near immunity to damage and misrepresenting it as a statement i made about all cavalry. No one in the thread is stupid enough to have missed the point of that statement and you ham-fistedly trying to fox news quote me into irrelevance instead of actually taking on my points is saying a  lot more about you than me, freund.

That said, to the people who are actually discussing in good form- we've had a lot of back and forth what do you guys think a fair change to upkeep would be? I think prepatch was well too low, you guys think that the current rate is too high. How close to the middle do you want to go?

[Glyph]

I did play a generation as cavalry, i wasn't particularly interested in the class i'll admit but my points aren't based on any distaste for cav, i absolutely love to see the good ones on my team and they save my slow reloading self on more than one occasion. Honestly if you look over at archers who can't even carry multiple stacks of their second best arrow without going broke, cavalry have it super good.

Hey here's a thought, how about you actually discuss this topic instead of taking a quote i made about plated chargers having near immunity to damage and misrepresenting it as a statement i made about all cavalry. No one in the thread is stupid enough to have missed the point of that statement and you ham-fistedly trying to fox news quote me into irrelevance instead of actually taking on my points is saying a  lot more about you than me, freund.

That said, to the people who are actually discussing in good form- we've had a lot of back and forth what do you guys think a fair change to upkeep would be? I think prepatch was well too low, you guys think that the current rate is too high. How close to the middle do you want to go?

back to what is was

[Kafein]

Actually, it's not a problem anymore for SOME people to be heavy cav, but it's really sad that it will ruin you and more importantly fuck your autobalance consistantly.

Autobalance is influenced by equipment value, so if you are using a horse, you are better doing at the very least 2/1 k/d ratios because you and your horse are nearly as costly as 2 footmen.


The dev team says it wants diversity yet being heavy cav is impossible for most and completely dumb for the rest.

I like your comparison with archers.

Honestly if you look over at archers who can't even carry multiple stacks of their second best arrow without going broke, cavalry have it super good.

So now to get the picture about cav, imagine that your bow alone makes you go broke.

Furthermore, PC and other tank horses don't give immunity to damage at all. I would even say they are more dangerous to ride than other horses. First you have all the enemy lancers that will try to poke your back and will do very easily. Second you have the pikemen, xbowmen, throwers and archers that hear you coming from a mile away. In the case of pikemen, if you are stopped near 2 or three enemies, intelligent ones will hit you first and even in full plate, 4 or 5 hits of 2h/polearms will kill you. Your horse didn't even helped you in that case. Ranged classes are also a problem. First they can dodge your charge very easily, and second you can only rely on the charge damage itself, as it's easy as cake to hit the rider of those monsters (that's why tank horse riders all have shields). And still, only PC can survive an arbalest headshot (next hit kills them).

[Wookimonsta]

Hey here's a thought, how about you actually discuss this topic instead of taking a quote i made about plated chargers having near immunity to damage and misrepresenting it as a statement i made about all cavalry.

I'm sorry, but even saying that about a plated charger is silly. Plated chargers are NOT near invulnerable. yeh, they can absorb alot of damage, but any lancer on a plated charger is not doing it right and the only people who are hard to kill on it are people with steel shields. Even then though, take a cheap pole arm and rear em up, the riders backside is COMPLETELY exposed since he can only turn his shield so far.
I pretty regularly deal with heavy horses and i don't really have much of a problem not getting killed by them, as avoiding them is a joke.


All things aside, plated chargers are pretty damn rare. I can agree that their price should remain the same, its the non armored horse with such large bills. A courser costing 1.4k is silliness. 1k for a repair for a courser is more than enough.

[Vanular]

Am I the only cav who can't even kill a lone archer? They wiggle around and make my horse into a pin cushion. Then I fall off and kill him, and pay a massive wod of cash at the end.

Haha! I laughted.

This is my round. Ride around for 2 minutes, get no kills. Fall off. Proceed to kill 8 people on foot because I got dropped 'behind enemy lines' so to say. Chop chop archers.

[BlueKnight]

Hello!

That's what I noticed.
I ride around on my champion war horse, then go for some guys to kill.I Hit 6 guys (usually archers) with heavy lance on ful speed with 7PS and they are all alive. Then I get 2 or 3 arrows and I am dead. In the end of the round I pay 1000 - 4000 upkeep. (transitional + warhorse are more than 3,5k).

When I take cheap gear, I ride a rouncey and take light lance. I can kill only farmers who have no armour. After my brave peasant-multikill my rouncy receives a hit from an archer ( 60% of horsie's HP is gone ) and then horsie get's another hit from archer and it's dead. then I run to kill somebody. The round upkeep would be something around 300 - 1000 ( with padded leather + light lance + rouncey + cheap gloves and boots and helmet )

It's really hard to succed in upkeep as horseman. You have to have a winning team all the time and you will still get killed by archers ( even if you have 70 body armour as I have -.- ). Usually it's 3 shots to kill me in my armour.

We need a change

[Kafein]

I think that many non-cav people are focused on claiming that cav is easy because top cav players can rack kills unlike any other top players in other classes, and that in general k/d pumping as cav is easy (go for peasants, noobs etc.).

What they lack to see is that k/d means nothing when you only kill useless rabble. Most good (important) players learned to defend from cav effectively.

Many of my cav kills are 2h that think they are invincible or something. If we both have our optimal reach, I win. So they are better blocking and resuming their own business. Yet many 2h still try to outreach me and usually fail.

Also, there are very few cav compared to other classes, which means a good part are hardcore, very skilled and well-trained cav fanatics. I often see inf noobs and archer noobs, cav noobs however are very rare. Most of the bad cavs are old inf that try cav from time to time. But there are extremely few people that start as a cav when they join the game for the first time. I understand as it's quite unappealing for a new player : you need to save up big amounts of money to buy an half decent horse. All this means that while most classes are composed of a majority of under-average players, cav isn't. And this makes cav look like it's better. It's not, the players are better.

[Tzar]

Nothing is more easy then gaining kills while on a horse.

I say increase upkeep of horses.

especially the Arab and Courser

Sick of all you Torben/leed wannabe new comers bumping your team mates 24/7 to pad your kdr trying to killsteal on the 120 man server the server was unplayable before the latest Lance nerf and upkeep increase for anyone not on a pony

[BlueKnight]

Yep ur right Kafein. As a good cavalry you can kill guys with even a bit shorter weapons ( light lance etc. ) most of the guys forget to stab a bit faster and they die. but still it is terrible that a common peasant can block a heavy lance with a wooden stick or sth. You shouldn't be able to block a lance with anything else than shield. also pikes should break after stopping the cav. and blocking with wooden weapons should be like with shield. the wooden weapon should have it's own HP like shield so after like 5 blocks with long spear it would just break and you would get hit. In fact if we took all the features from reality game would be balanced. There is no better balance than realism ( at least in my opinion )

Tzar.................................. no

[Kafein]

Nothing is more easy then gaining kills while on a horse.

I say increase upkeep of horses.

especially the Arab and Courser

Sick of all you Torben/leed wannabe new comers bumping your team mates 24/7 to pad your kdr trying to killsteal on the 120 man server the server was unplayable before the latest Lance nerf and upkeep increase for anyone not on a pony

"U mad ?" pic in 3...2...1...

Yep ur right Kafein. As a good cavalry you can kill guys with even a bit shorter weapons ( light lance etc. ) most of the guys forget to stab a bit faster and they die. but still it is terrible that a common peasant can block a heavy lance with a wooden stick or sth. You shouldn't be able to block a lance with anything else than shield. also pikes should break after stopping the cav. and blocking with wooden weapons should be like with shield. the wooden weapon should have it's own HP like shield so after like 5 blocks with long spear it would just break and you would get hit. In fact if we took all the features from reality game would be balanced. There is no better balance than realism ( at least in my opinion )

Tzar.................................. no

I would not go that far. If the game was realistic the one-handed lance style would be allmost unused, dominated by couched lances and 1h cav. And lances would break on impact. And horses would not be like motorcycles, although they would deal much more damage by charging.